Susan's Place Transgender Resources

What plants and herbs can I take to start my breast growth before starting ht?

Hi RennyPop  :icon_wave:

Welcome to Susan's Place  :)  Glad to have you here, join on in the fun

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Hugs

V M

Thank you, I'm having a hard time with the board format. Not mobile friendly. Is there an app or a mobile friendly version of the site I should be aware of?

Quote from: V M on March 24, 2019, 10:06:25 PM
Hi RennyPop  :icon_wave:

Welcome to Susan's Place  :)  Glad to have you here, join on in the fun

How about stopping by our Introductions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,8.0.html) Forum and introducing yourself so more folks can get to know you a bit better  ;)

Here are some links to the site rules and stuff that we offer to all new members to help them along

Things that you should read

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Hugs

V M

Also, my search for breast development returns no results.

I'm having a very difficult time navigating the site.

Quote from: RennyPop on March 25, 2019, 08:28:24 AM
Also, my search for breast development returns no results.

I'm having a very difficult time navigating the site.

@RennyPop
Near the upper right hand corner of any Forums page there is a Search box.
Type in "Breast Development"  or perhaps  "Breast Growth"  ...
either entree will provide lots of results that will give you pertinent information.

Also you should look through the many postings and comments in the
Male to Female Transsexual Talk (Mtf)  section of the Forums.
      https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?board=51.0

Plan to take some time to do some searching and reading and you should find answers to many of your questions.
Best Wishes to you,
Danielle

Quote from: RennyPop on March 24, 2019, 09:40:42 PM
What plants and herbs can I take to start my breast growth before starting ht?

Why not go for hormones?  That's what I'm planning on doing and my appointment with the endocrinologist is in about 3 weeks.  Depending on where you are, you may be able to get them on informed consent, as I will be doing.

Quote from: RennyPop on March 25, 2019, 08:25:46 AM
Thank you, I'm having a hard time with the board format. Not mobile friendly. Is there an app or a mobile friendly version of the site I should be aware of?

Download the Tapatalk app on your mobile.  I actually like it better than the web version most of the time.

I see what Rennypop is saying- I don't get any returns using the search either. I tried off of several different pages including the home page.

Quote from: Anastasia on March 26, 2019, 02:41:40 PM
I see what Rennypop is saying- I don't get any returns using the search either. I tried off of several different pages including the home page.

@Anastasia
As with most search engines, one has to be careful to be very precise with as few words as possible, otherwise too many words and/or conjunctions can confuse or negate the search process and will result in the following message:
     "Your search query didn't return any matches."
***NOTE: Are you at the very least getting that message when you try to search? ???

Near the upper right hand corner of any Susan's Place Forums page
there is a Search Box  (not your browser or Google web search box)

Type in (exactly)   
Breast Development   or perhaps   Breast Growth

...either 2 word entree will provide lots of results showing postings that will give you pertinent information. 

Danielle

To actually address your question, I have not found that herbs are particularly effective. I tried a course of fenugreek and I just ended up smelling of maple syrup with dry nipples..

I have found that regular breast massage, breast pumping and nipple stimulation have worked for me. I now need a bra all the time for support and for nipple modesty. Going braless gives me a lot of wobble, plus nipple chafe.

I love my nipple suction teats, but I am regularly filling them with skimmed milk drops now. I am still dry on the regular breast pump, but my the suction of nipple teats is doing something!       

I just noticed there are 2 search boxes, one at the very top of the page above the Susan's Place Banner that returns nothing and one lower down at the top of the forum that works fine.

Quote from: RandyL on March 25, 2019, 10:15:32 PM
Download the Tapatalk app on your mobile.

Yes, download the Tapatalk app if you prefer using your mobile  :)

@RennyPop:
Here is my own personal experience and thoughts regarding the subject of breast enlargement, I am aware that there are others that may have their own views...

...While herbals do have properties that can increase breast size, usually it ends up being much more expensive and takes a much longer time to achieve any kind of appreciable results that usually pale in comparison to what an actual HRT regimen can provide under medical supervision.... plus herbals can have interactions with over-the-counter and prescription drugs that can pose real health risks especially in the higher doses of herbals that may be carelessly taken without regular blood test monitoring by a physician.

Herbals, even though they may have some estrogen-like properties are very, very weak as compared to doctor prescribed HRT, estrogen and T-Blockers.

Breast pumps will provide almost immediate temporary enlargement but the enlargement can revert back to the smaller size until you want to pump again. Eventually with persistent pumping some enlargement may be longer lasting.

In my personal experience, after just a little less than a year of doctor prescribed HRT, I had a full A-Cup, and well before my 2nd year ended I had a full B-Cup and as I approached 2 1/2 years of HRT  I had a C-Cup.
I have never used creams, lotions, pumps or anything like that. 

The bottom line is that I would strongly recommend real doctor monitored HRT for faster, more significant results and lasting enlargement.

Any body changes that happen with HRT are very dependent on each individual's genetic makeup that determines how quickly and how significantly the changes take place.   
Some will see more significant changes more quickly and some will see less significant changes more slowly....   Every body reacts differently and in it's own way.
There is a saying here on the forums:`
   YMMV meaning "Your Mileage May Vary"

Usually not much happens very quickly with HRT but things will happen....
Patience is definitely required!!!

Danielle

Quote from: Anastasia on March 26, 2019, 05:51:31 PM
I just noticed there are 2 search boxes, one at the very top of the page above the Susan's Place Banner that returns nothing and one lower down at the top of the forum that works fine.

@Anastasia    @RennyPop
YES, the search box just BELOW and to the right of the Red Susan's Place Banner
is the one to use... it always works for me.
Danielle

Herbs are not compatible with the human body in a lot of cases and in case of over consumption.
Phytoestrogens are so low in estrogenic-activity that you would have to take pounds and pounds of them to achieve small results.
Anyone wanting breast growth and other feminizing changes, would be better to go to their GP and explain the situation. Many doctors don't require psychiatric approval anymore for HRT, these days. My doctor didn't require it at all. Got my HRT prescription on the first visit after 15 minutes.
Gatekeeping is becoming rare in most developed countries these days.

QuoteAnyone wanting breast growth and other feminizing changes, would be better to go to their GP and explain the situation.

That's what I did and I think I'm noticing some changes now.  I started HRT on April 17.

HRT will be your best bet. I tried going to herbal stores and vitamin stores but all the clerk's said the items they have won't produce much result.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I noticed that I have a good two to two and half inches difference now between the measurements across my nipples and across my underbust.  My B cup bra is filled out now more than ever!   :)  :)

I do need to get another bra as I threw out a worn-out one earlier this month and I only have one bra now.  It is a Bali.

Any "make and model of bra" suggestions are welcomed!  Are underwire bras uncomfortable?

Chrissy

You have been on HRT for only 1.5 months. Your breast buds should be forming and your nipples going from tingles to fully inflamed. It's a marathon not a sprint. Almost three years in, my aureola's and nipples are maturing. I have nice C cups and really don't want too much bigger. Of course everybody is different and you may experience some other factors. I too started in my mid 60's. I refuse to wear "granny" clothes and until I wrinkle up like a prune I'm wearing makeup.

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on May 28, 2019, 08:08:31 AM
I noticed that I have a good two to two and half inches difference now between the measurements across my nipples and across my underbust.  My B cup bra is filled out now moe than ever!   :)  :)

I do need to get another bra as I threw out an worn-out one earlier this month and I only have one bra now.  It is a Bali.

Any "make and model of bra" suggestions are welcomed!  Are underwire bras uncomfortable?

Chrissy

Most women think underwires are uncomfortable. So do I ;) You should only need them if your breasts slip out of the bra, or for certain pushup models. Typically used by women at D or above.

Sent from my Victor 9000 using Tapatalk

Quote from: DawnOday on May 28, 2019, 10:51:29 AM
You have been on HRT for only 1.5 months. Your breast buds should be forming and your nipples going from tingles to fully inflamed. It's a marathon not a sprint. Almost three years in, my aureola's and nipples are maturing. I have nice C cups and really don't want too much bigger. Of course everybody is different and you may experience some other factors. I too started in my mid 60's. I refuse to wear "granny" clothes and until I wrinkle up like a prune I'm wearing makeup.

I really like your new avatar, Dawn!

Sent from my Victor 9000 using Tapatalk

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on May 28, 2019, 08:08:31 AM
I noticed that I have a good two to two and half inches difference now between the measurements across my nipples and across my underbust.  My B cup bra is filled out now moe than ever!   :)  :)

I do need to get another bra as I threw out an worn-out one earlier this month and I only have one bra now.  It is a Bali.

Any "make and model of bra" suggestions are welcomed!  Are underwire bras uncomfortable?

Chrissy

My girls seem to be still growing. I need new ones every few months.  I don't want to buy costly contraptions.  I go either to Walmart, but mostly on Amazon.  I always buy a white, a skin color and a black bra to have something for under all my stuff.  I currently buy only the more soft, close to sports bra, versions.

Quote from: RandyL on May 28, 2019, 11:26:33 AM
Most women think underwires are uncomfortable. So do I ;) You should only need them if your breasts slip out of the bra, or for certain pushup models. Typically used by women at D or above.

Underwires should not be at all uncomfortable if they fit. The wire curve must fit the curve of the under-breast, and be positioned correctly... and of course the rest of the bra must also be the right shape and size.

The bra is one of the most structured/engineered articles of clothing on the market today. There are literally thousands of size and shape variations—including the cross-section of the rib cage and breast shape and position. Thus, you really can't/mustn't choose just by cup and band size. If the entirety does not fit, even the best bra will be as uncomfortable as any other article tailored for someone not your size and shape.

On the other hand, a well fitting one should be practically unnoticeable.

zirconia, you are so correct. Every bra style and manufacture is different.  Best way to  find the correct bra is try on many different sizes and styles until you find one that fit and moves with you and as zironia said the right one will feel like you not even wearing most of the time.  Underwire styles are great for someone needing the support or want to raise them up. Again it may take some looking to find the right one for you.  I have spent over an hour trying on bras until I found one that I liked.

Quote from: RandyL on May 28, 2019, 11:26:33 AM
Most women think underwires are uncomfortable. So do I ;) You should only need them if your breasts slip out of the bra, or for certain pushup models. Typically used by women at D or above.

Sent from my Victor 9000 using Tapatalk

Thank you Randy.

Chrissy

Thank you zirconia and mm. I obviously have never tried that hard for a good fit, and neither has my wife or many of her friends. But sounds like it can be done and is probably worthwhile.

Sent from my Victor 9000 using Tapatalk

Quote from: RandyL on May 28, 2019, 11:26:33 AM
Most women think underwires are uncomfortable. So do I ;) You should only need them if your breasts slip out of the bra, or for certain pushup models. Typically used by women at D or above.

Sent from my Victor 9000 using Tapatalk

@RandyL
Dear Randy:
Most of my bras are underwire, I like how they shape my front "display"   .... exceptions are my sports bras.   
I am a full C-Cup and I do not find the underwire bras uncomfortable at all.   

But of course as @zirconia stated in her reply post, if the fit is correct then they should not be uncomfortable.
HUGS,
Danielle

Quote from: mm on May 28, 2019, 01:26:04 PM
zirconia, you are so correct. Every bra style and manufacture is different.  Best way to  find the correct bra is try on many different sizes and styles until you find one that fit and moves with you and as zironia said the right one will feel like you not even wearing most of the time.  Underwire styles are great for someone needing the support or want to raise them up. Again it may take some looking to find the right one for you.  I have spent over an hour trying on bras until I found one that I liked.

All bras feel uncomfortable if the outside temps approach 100º!  With temps like this, the best bra is no bra, and one even wishes the boobs would not be able to hold a pencil in the air.  Even those skin folds are just two skin folds to many!

Quote from: zirconia on May 28, 2019, 01:08:50 PM
Underwires should not be at all uncomfortable if they fit. The wire curve must fit the curve of the under-breast, and be positioned correctly... and of course the rest of the bra must also be the right shape and size.

The bra is one of the most structured/engineered articles of clothing on the market today. There are literally thousands of size and shape variations—including the cross-section of the rib cage and breast shape and position. Thus, you really can't/mustn't choose just by cup and band size. If the entirety does not fit, even the best bra will be as uncomfortable as any other article tailored for someone not your size and shape.

On the other hand, a well fitting one should be practically unnoticeable.

Thank you Zirconia!

Chrissy

Quote from: Alaskan Danielle on May 28, 2019, 06:46:47 PM
@RandyL
Dear Randy:
Most of my bras are underwire, I like how they shape my front "display"   .... exceptions are my sports bras.   
I am a full C-Cup and I do not find the underwire bras uncomfortable at all.   

But of course as @zirconia stated in her reply post, if the fit is correct then they should not be uncomfortable.
HUGS,
Danielle

Danielle,

Thank you for your reply.   

Chrissy

Quote from: Linde on May 28, 2019, 07:32:31 PM
All bras feel uncomfortable if the outside temps approach 100º!

100º C or F?  ;)

Quote from: AnneK on May 28, 2019, 09:36:51 PM
100º C or F?  ;)

100º C would kind of shrivel me up, and render me edible for the alligators around here!

I am in southern Florida, and we would measure it 100º F

Quote from: DebbySoufflage on May 04, 2019, 09:26:57 PMHerbs are not compatible with the human body in a lot of cases and in case of over consumption.
Phytoestrogens are so low in estrogenic-activity that you would have to take pounds and pounds of them to achieve small results.
Anyone wanting breast growth and other feminizing changes, would be better to go to their GP and explain the situation. Many doctors don't require psychiatric approval anymore for HRT, these days. My doctor didn't require it at all. Got my HRT prescription on the first visit after 15 minutes.
Gatekeeping is becoming rare in most developed countries these days.

That wasn't my experience at all. I was taking a relatively small amount of herbal supplements and took this photo the day I was going to see my doctor about prescription HRT.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FNWl5v3p.jpg&hash=1038fa58e61726f9775e170688cb5f51c9bd4bb6) (https://imgur.com/NWl5v3p)

Quote from: Devlyn on January 05, 2024, 08:09:49 AMThat wasn't my experience at all. I was taking a relatively small amount of herbal supplements and took this photo the day I was going to see my doctor about prescription HRT.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FNWl5v3p.jpg&hash=1038fa58e61726f9775e170688cb5f51c9bd4bb6) (https://imgur.com/NWl5v3p)

Same for me. I was getting a lot of development on herbs. Unfortunately, unsupervised intake of an estrogenic compound led to a blood clot in my leg, which could have killed me. In my opinion, pharma HRT is much safer that herbal compounds of questionable origin - and easy to get in many states. In my opinion, if you feel strongly enough about transitioning to want to take something, you might as well see a doc and do it with professional guidance.

Big hug! Sorry to hear about your blood clot.

That's essentially what I told my doctor: "I'm too old to keep taking things without knowing what's going on inside me. I want you to supervise my HRT."

The first thing she said was "We'll get you right on HRT after a blood test. Now I want to know about those supplements, cuz DAYUM!"  ;D

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on January 05, 2024, 11:51:53 AMBig hug! Sorry to hear about your blood clot.

That's essentially what I told my doctor: "I'm too old to keep taking things without knowing what's going on inside me. I want you to supervise my HRT."

The first thing she said was "We'll get you right on HRT after a blood test. Now I want to know about those supplements, cuz DAYUM!"  ;D

Hugs, Devlyn

Thanks! That's a super cute outfit, by the way.

I get that. When I used to lurk here, I was quite surprised at how many people completely dismissed the herbal route. It wasn't just "you can't talk about them because they might not be safe"; it was "you can't talk about them because they're all wrong and they don't work at all." That kind of closed-mindedness is very off-putting to me.

That said, we're putting drugs into our bodies, the result of which can have very serious consequences. For many locations, pharma HRT is easier to acquire than ever, so that's the smart route.

It is very affirming to have breast development for sure.  I have had spurts.

Chrissy

[quote autho=ChrissyRyan link=msg=2260619 date=1705205391]
It is very affirming to have breast development for sure.  I have had spurts.

Chrissy
[/quote]

Adamantly agree!  My fifth year, they feel like I've had them for ever!  C cups in one brand B in another, D in yet another.   And I like underwires, front clip!  Glamorise.  I've a drawer full, all types.  Push up to daly wear T-shirt style.  Its all about the fit, regardless of manufacturer's sizings.  Find a manufacturer or 2 and don't worry about size.  It will come.  One way or another.

The ultimate question for us ladies, which type of bra do we choose.  Wired bra versus non-wired bra?  Long story short, I wear cotton non-wired sports bras, pretty much all the time.  Except on special occasions, I wear something special.

I remember in my earlier days choosing bras, wired, and with color and thrills to boot.  What women does not want to feel sexy when wearing bras?  To be honest, it's totally up to you, what you choose, whether a wired style or a non-wired one. Each style comes with their own set of pros and cons.

For me wired bras were a pain for general use, wired poked out of the material and were basically used to support larger breasts, my breasts are not that large only a C cup and the materials used did not soak up perspiration.

I needed bras that soaked up perspiration. The reason being I do a lot of swimming and when you exercise your body heats up and perspiration ensues and as a result my body has become very efficient at releasing heat.  So eventually I ended up with non-wired, cotton sports bra.

So pick your bra based on your need, your outfit and the kind of support you're looking for. Wired bras for medium to larger sized breasts, while non-wired styles for the smaller breasts.  That does not mean  small breasts cannot have a wired style or vice versa.  You can base your choice on the occasion such as a wireless bra works for lounging around at home, while a wired bra will work for an evening out or dinner date.

Unless of course you need a "over the shoulder boulder holder", in which case I cannot help you there.

Best wishes and make sure they are comfortable to wear.
Sarah B

You look very beautiful.

As for herbal supplements, in my research I came across another forum specifically for genetic males trying to grow breast any way shape or form possible. It covers using herbs like bovine ovary or pueraria mirifica a long with supporting supplements to stop converting test into dht, while supporting estrogen. Also covers hrt, breast pumping and massage, even surgery.
But just like hrt herbals take time even years to start working on the body and it's all just an experiment that's not supervised. If you're going to invest the time either way mind as well be supervised HRT

Quote from: Robbyv213 on May 24, 2024, 01:26:36 PMYou look very beautiful.

As for herbal supplements, in my research I came across another forum specifically for genetic males trying to grow breast any way shape or form possible. It covers using herbs like bovine ovary or pueraria mirifica a long with supporting supplements to stop converting test into dht, while supporting estrogen. Also covers hrt, breast pumping and massage, even surgery.
But just like hrt herbals take time even years to start working on the body and it's all just an experiment that's not supervised. If you're going to invest the time either way mind as well be supervised HRT

I started there, participating in that forum after years of dreaming of being a woman. At that point, I'd concluded that I was *simply* a "man who wanted to grow breasts."

Quote from: Courtney G on May 26, 2024, 10:26:53 PMI started there, participating in that forum after years of dreaming of being a woman. At that point, I'd concluded that I was *simply* a "man who wanted to grow breasts."

I started in a similar place for the same reason. 

I dabbled in some online herbs with minimal results.  While I was doing this, I took a very long plain trip with a window seat.  US west cost to Germany.  Being in the window seat I had to disturbed 2 others in order to get up and move around.  During the trip I developed a little soreness in one of my lower legs.  It had all the earmarks of Deep Vein Thrombosis.  It worked it self out after a day or so and on the return trip I switched to an aisle seat where I could get up easer, and also stretch my legs out into the aisle.  I don't know for sure If I had a little Deep Vein Thrombosis, and if I did, I don't know if it was the herbs along with the flight, but that was the end of the herbs for me.

It did take a little time once I talked to my GP about it, but it was fairly easy to get on HRT.  It's is something that really needs to be supervised with the blood tests and all.  I would not recommend that anyone should try it without medical supervision.

My male doctor had retired some years earlier and I had switched to a female GP that my wife was seeing.  I was able to approach her on the subject of my desire for breasts.  I'm not sure if I could have done that with my prior GP, or any male doctor for that matter.

I have to say, my GP has been great as well as her staff.

Paulie.
 

When the development comes in strong, that is so affirming.

Chrissy

Yes. I have read many members of the other forum having developed bolt colts to these herbs. So it is very dangerous thing doing it in supervised, and takes longer than hrt. Mind as well not waste anytime and just go straight to hrt.

I can see maybe using it for a few months to see if you like the smaller changes of having more estrogen in ones systems, physically and mentally etc. but after a certain point again mind as well just switch to hrt.

Being on HRT for 3 months I do not see any breasts development. So I started intake folic acid 800mg daily.

Quote from: Sweet luck on May 29, 2024, 05:46:06 AMBeing on HRT for 3 months I do not see any breasts development. So I started intake folic acid 800mg daily.

It takes six months or longer for the breasts to BEGIN to develop. Be patient. Folic acid is not going to speed it up. Cis-women go through puberty for years to become fully developed. It takes time and trying to make it go faster runs risks to your health. Unless you have some other health issue that requires folic acid supplements, save your money.

Aside from a little nipple development and small buds, most of my breast development began around 1 year. Also the time I switched from patches to injected E.

I have heard many members that are on HRT, say they have success using bovine ovary, MSM and red reshi, green tea extract, progesterone cream and dhea. Granted there seems to be so many different ways and how and when to use them in different combinations. It really takes a huge understanding of what everything does and how the body reacts to it. Unless youve been doing research for a long time and really understand the human body than I would just do what the doctor advises.

Breast growth can really take awhile, 5 plus years, even a decade. Growth is a lot of hurry up and wait, some growth, periods of no growth. Most don't even reach stage 5 which is considered fully developed. And depending on your genetics you can really only hope to see about what any females in your family have in terms of cup size.

Although I dont recommend mixing herbals with prescriptions, there is a ton of information on there that both men and women use to grow breast tissue, and pictures to prove it. Very interesting. I have learned a lot about the human body and how it reacts and does things.more than I did when in school. I warn you though there is prob over 1000's of pages of information on there and there is no good way to find what youre looking for with our reading it all and hopefully luck to stumble on information that is useful

Quote from: Sweet luck on May 29, 2024, 05:46:06 AMBeing on HRT for 3 months I do not see any breasts development. So I started intake folic acid 800mg daily.

If you're on HRT under a doctor care you don't want to mix herbals and prescriptions.  Your doctor should be doing regular blood tests to check your hormone levels.  The herbals can cause false readings making it difficult for your doctor to properly regulate your hormone levels. 

This can further delay your breast development or worse lead to other health issues.

My first blood test after starting HRT was at 3 months and my GP made an adjustment at that time.  (I'm on oral HRT).  My next BT was at the 6-month mark.  My hormone levels were in the right range but still no breast development (nor breast tenderness). We left my meds where they were.

The next 6 months is where I started seeing some development.  Like the others have said, save your money and be patient.  Above all else don't ever, ever, ever, go the unsupervised route. 

Warm Regards,

Paulie. 

I will say that I enjoy having my breasts. 

Chrissy

Rome was not built in a day, and neither will your beautiful breast. But in time they will grow and they will be amazing, just like all the amazing and beautiful roman architecture.

Mine were not built in a day, that is for sure!

Chrissy

Mine weren't even built in a year.
Four years and still not even close. *sigh*

Quote from: LoriDee on May 31, 2024, 04:17:08 PMMine weren't even built in a year.
Four years and still not even close. *sigh*

Well they must be built on a good foundation, and that takes time. After they get a nice start, they may develop further, in spurts.

So be patient, they may be coming.

Chrissy

I have labs on June 3, so we will see if I have finally reached my hormone target levels yet. It gets frustrating when they baby-step the dosage up a little at a time. I keep telling them that they have informed consent, so give me the maximum, and let's baby-step down to where I should be. I'm willing to take the risks (which are imagined by prescribers and not realistic). If I have a stroke, then it's on me and you can say, "I told you so". But they have to do it their way.

I have a plan on how to get my way. I won't discuss it here. But if I imply certain things, it would change the prescribing protocol. I have to discuss it with my doctor to feel out if it is a possibility. Nuff said.

Quote from: LoriDee on May 31, 2024, 04:28:30 PMI have labs on June 3, so we will see if I have finally reached my hormone target levels yet. It gets frustrating when they baby-step the dosage up a little at a time. I keep telling them that they have informed consent, so give me the maximum, and let's baby-step down to where I should be. I'm willing to take the risks (which are imagined by prescribers and not realistic). If I have a stroke, then it's on me and you can say, "I told you so". But they have to do it their way.

I have a plan on how to get my way. I won't discuss it here. But if I imply certain things, it would change the prescribing protocol. I have to discuss it with my doctor to feel out if it is a possibility. Nuff said.

Their medical advice is conservative and maybe safer for you though.  More is not necessarily better. 

Did you try sublingual with your same dose, if you take tablets?

Strokes are to be avoided.  They can have serious consequences.  Have you seen the results of strokes?  I have, and they were not pleasant for those who had them.

We want you to be around too. 

Chrissy

Thanks, Chrissy.

I am on patches. I was on oral tabs twice and they don't seem to work well. My system metabolizes them too quickly, so I get the PMS rollercoaster every day. The patches smooth things out.

I realize they proceed cautiously, too cautiously. I can only speak for myself, but I have none of the risk factors: no family history of breast cancer, stroke, blood clots, or any of the alleged risks of taking hormones.

I say alleged because prescribers and even the FDA (U.S.) base their fears on the Women's Health Initiative Study. I have outlined my issues with that study in another post. Basically, the study found these risks in cis-women who were taking Premarin (Conjugated EQUINE Estrogen) with a synthetic progestin. I am not taking those. My prescriptions are for bioidentical hormones like those made in a human ovary.

Therefore, I should be able to raise my levels to the same levels that cis-women reach during pregnancy without any danger. Most pregnant women are not in any danger of cancer or strokes, so why would I be? So far, two Endocrinologists, two Family Practice Physicians, and a Gynecologist have been unable to explain to me why I would be at risk.

All I am asking is for someone to a) show me a study of transgender females taking bioidentical hormones developing cancers or blood clots with no prior medical or family history, or b) STFU and up my dose to those levels for 9 months. After nine months with hormones at pregnancy levels, there will be no more need for further high dosage because breast development will be as mature as it will ever get. Then levels can be brought down to baseline for the remainder of my lifetime. If there is any risk, it would be from keeping levels too high for too long, i.e. more than one year. There is no reason to do that.

Could you use bio identical progesterone cream on your breast, to help promote growth?

I have done a lot of research on those breast growing forums, and the people on HRT are using progesterone cream with dhea mixed into it, theory behind it is that each area of the body has different abilities for estrogen receptors. Using progesterone topical cream with dhea mixed helps those receptors in the breast tissue.also helps mimic if one has ovaries and a menstrual cycle since progesterone is a product of that. I can find specific links to research articles that better explain it if you would like. It will just take some time digging and finding those posts again.

But the typical regimen for many that are on hrt is using bovine ovary (which cis women use sometimes as well), pituitary glandular, red reshi, msm, green tea extract, either iodine or kelp to help body temp (since Bovine has a specific temp it works best at) and only after they have breast buds they incorporate progesterone cream and dhea.  And that's all along with the prescription hrt.

Many also use breast pumps and massage to help blood flow and stimulation for growth.

Again I am not advocating use of herbals with HRT, nor would I be against it either. I have not used or tried it. I have no personal experiences I can only relate what I have read and done research on. But if you feel that your doctor is not meeting your needs you have to do what you have to do.

But you can increase your risk for blood clots, dvt, stroke and other things commonly associated with higher estrogen levels.

But on the flip side anyone using testosterone for a long time has the increased risk of prostate cancer, higher blood pressure, heart attack etc.

So there is no right or wrong answer. You have to do what you feel is best for you, and make the most informed decisions you can

Quote from: Robbyv213 on May 31, 2024, 06:23:27 PMBut you can increase your risk for blood clots, dvt, stroke and other things commonly associated with higher estrogen levels.

This is what I am talking about. Read my lips: There are NO studies of transgender women using bioidentical hormones and suffering any of these without some prior medical or family history. All of these so-called risks are based on extrapolating data from the WHI study which does not apply. You can't see horse estrogen causing cancer and automatically assume human estrogen does too. If so, then pregnant women around the world would be getting cancer. They don't... unless they have a prior medical or family history.

I have been down the herbals, creams, and bovine ovary route. I spent a lot of money with a company, sponsored by an MD, and making all kinds of claims. Not only are the claims false, there is no scientific evidence supporting those claims. I did the research. Now, let's use a bit of logic. If Bovine ovary, or any other herbal, is so effective, why aren't the big pharmaceutical companies pushing it? It doesn't work.

Herbals rely on phytoestrogens, which are plant-based, not human-based. They are not bioidentical. They present such a weak estrogen, that they have little to no effect. They also will bind to the estrogen receptors and block prescription estrogen. You are better off not using them together. Creams are not well-formulated to penetrate the skin to get where they need to go. The receptors in the cells are not on the surface of the skin, they are deep in the tissue. Creams have a very difficult time getting that deep through all the layers of skin and fat. Not enough of it gets through to be effective and can block the receptors to prevent the stronger hormones from reaching their target.

Another marketing ploy is promoting DHEA, wild yams, pregnenolone, and other precursors to the actual hormone. The ploy is that by adding all the ingredients, your body will make the hormones themselves. Nothing could be further from the truth. You are mixing up a bunch of things that have little quality control on dose and purity, and zero regulatory oversight. That is just dangerous. If people want to go that route, that is their decision but I would strongly urge them to go the medical route where the meds are regulated, quality controlled, and the effects on your body can be monitored.

When I was first exploring these things, I had an online gaming friend in London. I won't name-drop but she is a well-known transgender gamer. I had been asking her advice as I was trying different things. She warned me very sternly to stop playing games with my health. She explained why what I was doing was wrong, it would not work, and said the only EFFECTIVE way to do this is through medically-prescribed hormones. I researched what she told me and confirmed that what she said was fact. Shortly after that conversation, I told my doctors that I was ready to start FHT (Feminizing Hormone Therapy).

Just because my biology is not responding the way I would like it to, is not the issue. I still rely on best-quality meds and follow-up monitoring so I know if they are working or not. If my target level is 200 or 250 (I have been told both of those), fine but I have only been above 100 once in four years. This is why we keep adjusting doses, changing brands, and so forth. The struggle continues but it is far from over.  ;D

@LoriDee thank you for the information.

And yes there are no real studies of specific things on humans, mostly just animals and seeing if X, y, or z herb has an effect on estrogen or anti testosterone in the animals being tested on.

I can only speak for the blood clots and dvt reports by word of mouth since a hand full of the members of Breastnexum forum has reported that they developed these issues and were trying to warn others about it. Granted it is a public forum and people can post what ever they want. If they are truly having success or not, or developing health issues or not it's got to be taken with a grain of salt. Although I couldn't imagine why some one would lie about developing health issues such as dvt, blood clots or reporting they had a stroke. But they can also have a very different genetic male up and have other underlying health issues that others don't.

But I can see you are very against using herbal methods, so I won't bring it up here anymore. Again I am new at all this and figured the more information out there the better. But if it's wrong information and I'm helping spread it than I apologize.

Thanks @Robbyv213,

My personal opinion doesn't matter. The purpose of this forum is to share information, preferably correct information.

Although I couldn't imagine why some one would lie about developing health issues such as dvt, blood clots or reporting they had a stroke.

The reason is that they are attempting to steer people away from medically prescribed hormones. Why would they do that? Marketing. Many people already do not trust the medical establishment and Big Pharma. They are playing on those fears to sell untested, unregulated, and ineffective supplements. BreastNexus is one of many websites that do this. It would not surprise me if those stories are not from actual users of the products, but shills just doing more marketing.

The more people buy into their hype, the more commissions they make from Amazon and their other affiliate suppliers. It is all about sales.

The research I do is on studies published in the Journal of Endocrinology and the National Institutes of Health PubMed. These are peer-reviewed medical journals. A study based on bogus hype will not qualify for publication.

Part of the problem we have is that it is estimated that transgender people only make up about 1% of the world's population. And that is only the ones that were counted. Many more may still be in the closet, confused, or not ready to admit to anything.

With such a small percentage of people available for any kind of study, the studies that are being done involve a very small sampling involving maybe 25 - 100 participants. In the scientific community, any results from a small study are considered "medically insignificant" and therefore disregarded by the medical community in general.

They rely instead on studies involving thousands of people, like the Women's Health Initiative which had tens of thousands of women participating. When something goes wrong, as it did, they stopped the study and issued warnings about the dangers. The FDA gets involved and repeats these findings. Then everyone is repeating the same information without bothering to see if it is relevant. Doctors swore to "do no harm" so they tend to tread cautiously.

I can give an example to demonstrate what I am talking about. The Women's Health Initiative participants were taking Premarin (PREgnant MARe urINe) conjugated equine estrogens and a synthetic progestin. If you go to the FDA website and look up Prometrium (micronized bioidentical progesterone) you will find the quote referencing the risk of taking synthetic progestin. Why? It isn't relevant. Prometrium is bio-identical to human progesterone produced in the ovaries.

And so the misinformation continues to get spread.

My point to all of this is not to criticize anyone's decision on what or how they will develop their own bodies. My intent is to ask people to do their own research, use their brains, and really think about what they are doing.

If you don't take care of your body, where are you going to live?

A few data points from me - not science or anything, really - just sharing this:

• I started on herbals (oral)
• My father had arteriosclerosis. I don't know about his cholesterol but mine was chronically high until I treated it with a statin. There was some history of heart disease on my father's side
• I got some breast development pretty quickly while on herbals
• Had soreness in one of my calves, which turned out to be a clot. Blood tests revealed high levels of d-dimer and another enzyme (?) associated with clotting. After treatment for the clot, and having discontinued the herbal HRT my values were good and they stayed that way. Haven't had an issue since
• I decided I couldn't do without HRT, so I contacted and endo and patches were the logical choice
• I've supplemented the estradiol/spironolactone with topical progesterone. My docs knows about it and is fine with it. She agrees that the topical option is good for me. It's bioidentical and is derived from wild yams, but no, you can't get the same affect by taking a wild yam supplement. There's a chemical process required to synthesize the P4
• After a couple of years on herbals and finasteride, plus 2 years and 5 months (and counting) on pharma HRT, my breast development has exceeded my wildest expectations. My breasts are large and full - very round, and appear to be Tanner 4 ("mound on mound"). My areolae are large. I do wish my nipples were a bit bigger, but they might continue to develop a bit.

Regarding progesterone cream, it is NOT advised to apply it to breasts. As I understand it, this can lead to an increased risk of tumors. I apply a small amount nightly to non-fatty areas below my belly button. There's a piece you can Google entitled "ALWAYS APPLY BHRT BELOW THE UMBILICUS" that might be useful.

I have read that article. It is also useful to explain why we apply patches where we do.

The P4 cream does work better on thin skin, like you said. I read an article that recommended applying to the throat, neck and upper chest area. With thin skin, it has less to penetrate and can get into the bloodstream better. Then the circulatory system can get it to the P-receptors in the breast tissue.

Thanks for sharing!

Quote from: Paulie on May 30, 2024, 12:06:54 AMThe next 6 months is where I started seeing some development.  Like the others have said, save your money and be patient.  Above all else don't ever, ever, ever, go the unsupervised route. 

Warm Regards,

Paulie.

Dear Pauline, thank you for your feedback 😊
Of course I'm taking hormones under the supervision of doctor and I pass blood tests regularly every month. Now my Estrogen has acheived target level of 170 pg/ml and testosterone level dropped down to the value less 0.2 ng/ml. I think it is good result after 3 months of HRT. Sometimes I feel some seal in my nippels, but now any other effect. That's why I was suggested consuming folic acid, it is safe as vitamin supplement. I know that pregnant women intake it to ensure pregnancy go smoothly.

After some initial development, for a long while I thought that there would be no further growth.  But I was pleasantly surprised.  More came my way.  So if yours seamed to have peaked, do not give up hope, you may get more.

Chrissy

Quote from: Sweet luck on June 03, 2024, 06:24:55 AMThat's why I was suggested consuming folic acid, it is safe as vitamin supplement. I know that pregnant women intake it to ensure pregnancy go smoothly.

Folic acid is taken by pregnant women to prevent birth defects in their children. Are you pregnant? It has nothing to do with breast development. Please be safe.

Quote from: LoriDee on June 03, 2024, 07:09:06 AMAre you pregnant? It has nothing to do with breast development. Please be safe.

I would be very happy if I were pregnant 🤭
But it's not my case))
Folic acid is a commonly used supplement not only for pregnancy planning. There are a lot of benefits of folic acid, it works with b12 as important vitamin for hair growth, increases skin hydration etc. I think these effects might be useful for transgenders as well. What do u think?

B12 is more for nerve health than hair growth. Biotin is the B vitamin for hair, skin, and nails. But the way that B vitamins work is they support each other. Taking one vitamin is less effective than taking a B complex, so all the Bs are included in a balanced formula. I take Super B Complex and a Women's multivitamin for hair skin and nails. It includes the biotin, but also magnesium, iron, etc. so you get all the benefits.

For skin hydration, the best thing to do is drink water. Keep the skin clean and apply moisturizing lotion. They help lock in the moisture.

I agree with you that these things would be helpful, but there are better ways to do it that will provide benefits to overall general health, and not just a target issue.

I have a couple of questions that may have already been answered on this thread, but I don't currently have the time to read back through the whole thread.

The first has to do with growing spurts:  Are your breast only tender during growing spurts?  In other words, "if my breasts are tender, are they currently growing?"   My breasts have been pretty tender for the last 6 months and the growth in the last 3 has been very satisfying.  So, here's the real question, can I expect the growth to continue as long a they are still tender?

Now, here's the second question: Do pubescent girls hold and squeeze their developing breasts, or is it just something that 60 something MTF's do?  Or is it just me?  Seriously, I'm assuming most of us really don't (and shouldn't) know what pubescent girls do, but I can't seem to keep my hands off of mine when I don't have a bra on.  Partly because it feels good to have them held, and partly because it feels good to hold them.  I just hold them; the nipples are too tender for much else.  So, again, the real question is, "Is it just me?".  :laugh:       

Paulie.

Paulie,
 They are called fun bags for a reason. I play with mine every chance I get. Rubbing the nipples stimulates the release of prolactin and increases growth. At 61, I am a full C cup and the fat redistribution is making them bigger all the time. Coming up on 2 years hrt. Pain has subsided but still a little tender under the nipples. I have spoke to many trans girls and seams most of us are into breasts and touching them. It's really nice to not have to buy a dinner and a show, to get a feel.  :eusa_dance: Oops where did that come from?

Quote from: Gina P on July 10, 2024, 09:20:14 AMPaulie,
 They are called fun bags for a reason. I play with mine every chance I get. Rubbing the nipples stimulates the release of prolactin and increases growth. At 61, I am a full C cup and the fat redistribution is making them bigger all the time. Coming up on 2 years hrt. Pain has subsided but still a little tender under the nipples. I have spoke to many trans girls and seams most of us are into breasts and touching them. It's really nice to not have to buy a dinner and a show, to get a feel.  :eusa_dance: Oops where did that come from?

That gave me a chuckle.  ;D

Since my dosage and method have been changed, I notice some tenderness, itching, or aches. It is mild and not bothersome. Supposedly that is a sign that they are growing (fingers crossed). Usually, those symptoms subside with a little massage. The nipples have become more sensitive but in a good way. Sometimes if I am massaging and bump the nipple, it is like: "HELLO! More please!"  ;D

I just crossed the 2.5 year HRT mark and my breasts are still constantly sore. Kind of a low level soreness, like they're bruised. Sometimes, I'll get a mild shooting pain sensation that seems to be centered around my nipples. Growth seems to have slowed a bit and mine are very generous at ~36C but I believe they still are growing. Soreness seems more pronounced the day after I replace my estradiol patches.

It would be fair to say that I'm obsessed with my breasts. I'll share pics of them with any trans woman who is interested in seeing them and I've shared update pics with my best (cis female) friend, who is extremely supportive.

Even after all this time, I still lift my shirt to look at them when I head into the bathroom. My areola are large and my nipples are pretty sensitive, so it gives me a great deal of pleasure to touch them. Honestly, I can't get enough of them, either. I think it's because having them is truly a dream fulfilled and since I remain mostly closeted, they're the main source of affirmation of my femininity.

Regarding developing cis girls, while I have no firsthand experience, I have to imagine that the level of interest in one's breast varies from person to person but that the ones who are more actively interested in them as more than ornaments is somewhat limited. I say this based on conversations with adult women over the years, as my long-term desire to have my own often led me to ask them questions about theirs! Then again, they might all enjoy theirs, during and after puberty, but remain tight-lipped about it!!

The medically supervised HRT route is the best way to use HRT and any medicines.

Even herbals could interact with your condition or medicines so it is good to share with your personal physician all pertinent information, symptoms, concerns.. Ask questions and follow sound medical advice.

Chrissy

I found this article very interesting.  The author does state that she is not an MD but a researcher.

https://moderntranshormones.com/2018/01/01/whats-wrong-with-spironolactone/

My blood pressure was on the low side so my GM didn't increase my Spiro when updating my HRT meds about a year ago.  I"m on a very low Spiro dose and lower to mid level Estradiol dose.  After reading this article I'm glad my GP kept the Spiro low.  I'm pretty happy with my breast development so far.  If it does slow at some point, I may ask for some other antiandrogen. 

A stronger antiandrogen may help with other aspects for MTF, of which I don't think I'm seeing much of.  I guess I should look into this a more.  For many reasons, it's hard to look at yourself in the mirror and see the changes.

Warm Regards,

Paulie.
 

I do not mind underwire models.  I do not think that means necessary they are metal wires, right?  Why I ask is the bottom of some of my cups look like they have a thin curving support band or wire but I am guess they are NOT made of metal.  Otherwise, would not most ladies be stopped those airport security machines (unless the bra's metal could be ignored somehow)?


Chrissy

Quote from: Paulie on September 08, 2024, 11:44:35 PMI found this article very interesting.  The author does state that she is not an MD but a researcher.

https://moderntranshormones.com/2018/01/01/whats-wrong-with-spironolactone/

My blood pressure was on the low side so my GM didn't increase my Spiro when updating my HRT meds about a year ago.  I"m on a very low Spiro dose and lower to mid level Estradiol dose.  After reading this article I'm glad my GP kept the Spiro low.  I'm pretty happy with my breast development so far.  If it does slow at some point, I may ask for some other antiandrogen. 

A stronger antiandrogen may help with other aspects for MTF, of which I don't think I'm seeing much of.  I guess I should look into this a more.  For many reasons, it's hard to look at yourself in the mirror and see the changes.

Warm Regards,

Paulie.
 

I went through this argument with my endocrinologist. Spiro is not an androgen blocker. Read that again. Spiro is NOT an androgen blocker. It interferes with the 5a reductase enzyme which affects testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, prolactin, etc.

I was having all kinds of problems getting my hormones into the female range. They kept raising the dose but even that was ineffective. The reason is that the body uses testosterone for different things, one of which is converting it into cholesterol that your body needs. So if you block it and raise estrogen, the body will convert excess estrogen into testosterone and you have a zero net gain.

She dropped the Spiro and started me on Eligard (leuprolide) injections every 90 days. It isn't for everyone because it is expensive. But it blocks testosterone production at the source. She added a daily dose of Casodex (bicalutamide) which is an androgen blocker that does not affect the 5a reductase enzyme and therefore has no hormonal activity. It only blocks the androgen receptors. This combination is the equivalent of "chemical castration".

What happened was that my testosterone production stopped. Any testosterone that was being converted from estrogen was effectively blocked. My T- levels dropped into the female range and I stopped taking the Casodex. My last lab for T was back in August and I came in at 22. I still get the Eligard injections (the next one is Oct 24) and it is holding my T levels in range so the Casodex was no longer needed.

This is just my experience. Everyone's biology and body chemistry are a little different, so YMMV. But if it is an option for you, I highly recommend it and drop the Spiro.

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on September 09, 2024, 02:09:01 PMI do not mind underwire models.  I do not think that means necessary they are metal wires, right?  Why I ask is the bottom of some of my cups look like they have a thin curving support band or wire but I am guess they are NOT made of metal.  Otherwise, would not most ladies be stopped those airport security machines (unless the bra's metal could be ignored somehow)?


Chrissy

Some are flat wires but the metal is so thin it won't trigger an alert. Most belt buckles, metal zippers, and such go right through. If you are wearing a lot of metal that might trigger it. The machine looks at how much metal you are wearing.

Some underwires are plastic, perhaps nylon?

Quote from: Lori Dee on September 09, 2024, 02:32:49 PMSome are flat wires but the metal is so thin it won't trigger an alert. Most belt buckles, metal zippers, and such go right through. If you are wearing a lot of metal that might trigger it. The machine looks at how much metal you are wearing.

Some underwires are plastic, perhaps nylon?

Thank you.

Quote from: Robbyv213 on June 01, 2024, 10:18:01 AM@LoriDee thank you for the information.

And yes there are no real studies of specific things on humans, mostly just animals and seeing if X, y, or z herb has an effect on estrogen or anti testosterone in the animals being tested on.

I can only speak for the blood clots and dvt reports by word of mouth since a hand full of the members of Breastnexum forum has reported that they developed these issues and were trying to warn others about it. Granted it is a public forum and people can post what ever they want. If they are truly having success or not, or developing health issues or not it's got to be taken with a grain of salt. Although I couldn't imagine why some one would lie about developing health issues such as dvt, blood clots or reporting they had a stroke. But they can also have a very different genetic male up and have other underlying health issues that others don't.

But I can see you are very against using herbal methods, so I won't bring it up here anymore. Again I am new at all this and figured the more information out there the better. But if it's wrong information and I'm helping spread it than I apologize.

I follow that site,,breastnexum,, some of those individuals have amazing breasts that they post pictures of.  They sound like chemists talking about all the stuff they mix up to make them big.

Quote from: she she on September 28, 2024, 11:08:26 PMI follow that site,,breastnexum,, some of those individuals have amazing breasts that they post pictures of.  They sound like chemists talking about all the stuff they mix up to make them big.

I have tried their products and got zero results after spending a lot of money. I was talking to an online gamer friend about it (she is trans) and she told me to stop playing with my health. The products are not quality-controlled or regulated. There is no guarantee that any of the things they say are in the products are there. They also push precursor hormones and make it sound like your body will convert them into the actual hormones. Biology doesn't work that way.

My friend warned me that if you are not having your hormones monitored so they can be adjusted by medical personnel, then you are taking risks with your health. I took her advice and went the medical route. I wish people would learn from the experiences of others, but many people can't afford the medical route or are too shy to talk to a doctor about this very personal issue. So they take the shortcut and waste time and money and take risks to their health.

   Breast development takes years to show. Think of CIS girls in puberty years. Some develop early, some slower but most take years to grow. We come along and want it all now! Then the pitch men use this to sell the magical potion. Guaranteed to work. A few photos of well endowed women and fake reviews, Presto. Millions of dollars in sales. Estrogen works, but can cause blood clots, so it must be monitored. There are several internet services who prescribe and monitor if its to uncomfortable to ask your doctor.
   I love underwire bras. The hold everything in place and I don't find them uncomfortable at all. 

Speaking from experience, it's not safe trying to self medicate your HRT.  There are other things that need to be monitored along with your hormone levels.  It's not easy to broach this subject with your GP but you're so much better off doing so.  If you can't afford it now, please make a plan and save for it.  No one on these herbal sites talk about the risks.

I love underwire bras too.  All of my everyday bras are underwire, padded and otherwise. 

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on September 09, 2024, 02:34:17 PMThank you.

I fly quite a bit.  My underwire bras never set off an alert.  Although I get patted down on occasion in spite of Global Entry and TSA precheck, and asked, "What is this under your shirt?"  I answer, with slight indignance, "My bra."  the confused look is priceless.  Always on my way with minimal fuss.  Even with light padding or with inserts, no fuss.

Quote from: D'Amalie on September 30, 2024, 07:16:32 AM"What is this under your shirt?"

https://giphy.com/clips/peacocktv-peacock-tv-julia-roberts-zxUjcGKBmba0LEUvsj

I spent a couple of years on breastnexum before starting HRT and creating an account here. I'm also one of those folks who had a blood clot. It turns out that even on a low dose of an oral phytoestrogen, my liver is happy to create excessive amounts of the enzymes that cause clots. The one in my calf could have caused major problems, but it didn't. It was the first thing I told my doc when I prepared to start HRT and it's the reason I remain on patches to this day. Oral estradiol would likely cause the same issue for me.

Thank goodness for informed consent. I live in a state that permits it, so I'm allowed to decide if I "need" HRT and I have a doctor who supervises my medication. Win-win.

But the herbal stuff was working for me. After being flat as a board for my entire life, I was getting development. Still, I don't recommend it. And I believe that many, if not most people on breastnexum want to transition but convince themselves they're just "men who want to grow breasts." That was the case for me.

It is nice when it arrives, and it can arrive more than once besides a very little on an ongoing basis.  That is, you may have spurts.