Hello community, I have a question and I realize there is no right answer but thought if anyone had ever been in a similar situation, I might be able to get some idea of which way I'll go by asking you all.
A little background...
I have 3 wonderful daughters who are now in their 30's. They each have 2 children (my grandchildren). Each is relatively LGBTQ friendly in their own way. One daughter was in a lesbian relationship for 2 years about 15 years ago but has since married to a man. Another daughter has always been pro-LGBTQ, had a few LGBTQ friends back in HS but is cis female and has married a man. The last daughter is cis female but her husband has a sister who is married to a woman.
I am now transitioning and about 6 mos into HRT and am only full time in our home and present female about half the time out in the real world. My wife is accepting and a great ally. We attend 2 support groups in our area and have decided last month that we are ready to come out to everyone. I have come out to my siblings who live in other states (in he US). I have come out to our pastor and his wife and a few local friends.
We want to come out to our 3 daughters very soon so that I can present female full time 24/7. Our children have never seen me present as Susan. They have seen and commented on my changes these last 6 months but due to recent weight loss, they may or may not attribute it to that. My real hair is long now compared to the previous military cut I once had and I told them I am trying something new. My face has feminized a bit but requires full makeup to pass in public. My voice has outed me in a few public settings. None of this is directly applicable to my question but gives the reader an idea of where I am transition-wise.
I visited with one of my daughters and her family this morning before their week long vacation. They made a few comments during the visit which leads me to think they know "something" is going on but I did not want to "come out" right before a big vacation and ruin it. My wife and I think when they get back, it will be the right time.
Given these circumstances, do you think it best that I "come out" to my daughters as myself or the person they have always known? Alternatively, should I prepare them mentally by sharing pictures of myself presenting as Susan first? Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Susan R🌷
Susan, however accepting they may seem, you are still their father in their minds. My strong advice is that you explain it to them in that role and allow them to prepare themselves mentally for the change. I see nothing to be gained in the visual shock. I frankly think it would be unfair to them. I have grown boys and I did everything gradually for them in the visual sense and they told me how much they appreciated it. I don't see what is gained and I think it could cause them distress. My opinion. Good luck and tell us how it goes.
Got a PS. Take your clues from them. They may want to see the new you quickly. If not, then you can try to respect their feelings by graduating things.
Hi Susan, I think what Moni says above is spot on and I would agree that simply being yourself with very little changes, or as they "last saw you" would be best. When I came out to our daughters, I was presenting pretty much the way I was the day before. I gradually worked the changes in over time. Our daughters were still living at home as teen aged when this happened, you might not see your daughters everyday, I think you said you were "empty nesters" so perhaps gradually work in the changes as you visit each time. Having your wife present through the disclosures would certainly help this process and I'm sure your daughters would want to converse and be reassured by their Mom.
Best wishes, let us know how it goes...
Cynthia -
A agree with all the above. Knowing and experiencing are two very different things. Let the knowledge sink in for a bit. Allow and encourage them to ask questions.
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Moni is a wise lady, and I agree with her advice.
I didn't have an issue with family (2 brothers on the other side of the continent, who got informed via email), but I did consider carefully how to come out to the local community coffe group, consisting of mostly little old ladies. As per Moni's advice, I decided to make the announcement in male mode. That was shocking enough for them, and it prepared them for the following week when they met Kathy for the first time. It worked pretty well.
Thank you all for the well thought out replies. My wife has the final say as to when and how I or we "come out". She agrees with you all and even before I made this post said I should present as their Dad when it happens.
I was concerned they would not believe it and would think the whole thing was a preposterous idea. After reading your replies, I clearly see that their need to mentally prepare far outweighs my need to help them see me as Susan. It is important to me to make it as easy for them to accept as possible. It's going to be so difficult to let go of my Dad relationship that I worked so hard to achieve over the years with each of them. I know it won't completely disappear but it will definitely change. I can only hope it will turn out positive.
Thank you,
Susan R🌷
I told mine as male first and worked in myself over time and it's a work in progress.
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Quote from: Gertrude on April 06, 2019, 10:30:14 PM
I told mine as male first and worked in myself over time and it's a work in progress.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Thank for the reply Gertrude. If the moment is right this week after the return, my wife and I will likely tell them together as Mom & Dad. I'm presenting fairly androgynous right now but I still pass as Dad. We see this particular daughter and family every couple of weeks as they live over an hour away. I haven't figured out how to take the next step without some awkwardness ensuing. Sometimes it seems easier to just let it sink in and then present female all at once. But I'll likely just add a few fem attributes each visit. One week I'll add a little mascara, then the next time maybe some ladies sneakers and skinny jeans, and so on until they get accustomed to that.😏
I told my son (35 at the time) dressed as he had always seen me. I was unsure of what his reaction would be. He was fine and at my house he still calls me dad. (got to work on that)
All my best!
Judi
Quote from: HappyMoni on April 05, 2019, 07:02:08 PM
...Good luck and tell us how it goes.
Got a PS. Take your clues from them. They may want to see the new you quickly. If not, then you can try to respect their feelings by graduating things.
Quote from: CynthiaAnn on April 05, 2019, 07:11:55 PM
...Best wishes, let us know how it goes...
Cynthia -
HappyMoni & CynthiaAnn, I have an update and it's all very good news. Here's what happened when my middle daughter and my son-in-law came back from their vacation.
I went to pick them up with my wife. It was a weekday so the grandkids we babysat for the week were in school until 3:30pm. My wife and I were excited and able to be as normal as possible on the way home from the airport. We focused all our discourse on their vacation as much as possible. When we got home we had decided to only "come out" if they had the afternoon free. If they could only give us 15 mins before they had something scheduled we were planning to give a brief update about our week with the kids and give our goodbyes.
As it turned out, they were both home for the afternoon and so we had about 2 free hours until the kids had to be picked up from school. My wife told me she wanted to open with the discussion first without me there so she could tell the story like a love story about her and me (Susan). So I left for a few and after about 30 mins, texted to to come back. When I came into the living room, they were all hugs. I mean long whole-hearted hugs. They both said they loved me and would stand by me no matter what. They 100% accept me as Susan and I should never worry about losing their love or respect (apparently, this was in response to specific relational concerns I had discussed with my wife which was then conveyed to them).
We all sat and had one of the most loving and affirming discussions I've ever had. They are looking forward to meeting me as myself. We all discussed telling the grand children's soon as my wife and I had told the other two daughters and the other grandkids. All I can say is that this "coming out" couldn't have gone any better. We took their entire rest of their afternoon chatting about my life story and how this can be effectively integrated into our family. We also discussed how the only daughters and family will take the news. I can only say that it all looks very promising.
One daughter lives in West Olympia so it 3 hours one way from my home up north. We're planning to go down to visit their family on the 25th and only stay overnight if things go South. If things go well, we'll spend a few days with them starting on April 25th and maybe even be there to share the news with the grandkids if they so desire. Then when we get back to our area we will tell the oldest daughter and her family. That will be that...my entire family will then know "me" as myself before the end of April. But telling them is not the same as being with them as Susan.
Once the entire knows the truth about who I really am, as mentioned in one of my posts above, I will be slowly adding more and more feminine traits into my presentation until I can just be myself around everyone. The daughter and family I just "came out" to said this is the best plan to ease the grandkids into the idea of Papa becoming a woman.
So by May 5th, most, if not our entire family will be getting together to celebrate my grandsons birthday. I plan on being there wearing skinny jeans, ladies sneakers, androgynous top, and just some very light mascara. I'll probably do something a little feminine with my hair but nothing too girlish.
So that leaves only one very close 77 year old conservative pentecostal Christian neighbor to tell before I go full time. Why is this going to be harder than telling my kids? After all, she is a very nice lady but very critical of anything LGBTQ. I never discuss the topic with her because she is adamant on her beliefs and set in her ways. I know she will never understand and it will likely be the last discussion I ever have with her. It is just her way. We are neighbors so I just want to be friendly to her. She is extremely nice with that one exception in her personality. She is generous, kind, and understanding in everything except LGBTQ issues. I'm going to tell her because I can't let her dictate my life.
Off topic but related question...when I do "come out" to this elderly neighbor, should I just go over to her house to share my journey should I come with some of my home baked cookies presenting Male or Female? Ok, Ok, maybe I'm be a little silly...lol. Sorry about that!
Susan R🌷
Susan, I would go over as the person she has always known you as.... with a plate of cookies.
If she is the nice lady you say she is then she will love to chat with you.
I think telling your story to her should include experiences that you may have had with her in the past living next door. Are there any instances that may help her recognize Susan?
All you can do is be a nice neighbor to her. If she turns away, it would be sad, but she has her life to live the way she wants to also.
QuoteOff topic but related question...when I do "come out" to this elderly neighbor, should I just go over to her house to share my journey should I come with some of my home baked cookies presenting Male or Female? Ok, Ok, maybe I'm be a little silly...lol. Sorry about that!
Hugs
Susan:
I wish I could add to the very good advice from Moni, KathyLauren, and others. But I can't. I can only say I'm in the exact same boat as you.
We also have 3 daughters, 3 sons-in-law and 8 grandchildren. I saw my endo a couple of weeks ago. I've been on HRT since early December and responding very well. Out of that she's saying the time has come to 'come out' to my children and grandchildren.
I'm starting to work through it with my transition coach (councilor / therapist) but here is where I am at the moment.
I realize I will always be 'dad' to our daughters irrespective of how I present.
I realize I will always be 'grandpa Keith' to our granddaughters.
I have no clue how our 3 son-in-laws will respond and I have no clue how our grandsons will respond.
Moni has started a very good thread on how we explain ourselves. To oversimplify, it's a hormone issue.
I don't know what I will ultimately say. I don't know where the conversation will finally end. Just know your not alone. I'm there, in my own way, with you.
Kate
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Susan, I am so happy for you that your coming out to your middle daughter and son-in-law went so well. I love reading about happy stories like this, and I have happy tears in my eyes right now. You and your wife obviously handled it just right!
I wish you the same success with your other children.
Quote from: Susan R on April 11, 2019, 05:44:45 PM
So that leaves only one very close 77 year old conservative pentecostal Christian neighbor to tell before I go full time. Why is this going to be harder than telling my kids? After all, she is a very nice lady but very critical of anything LGBTQ. I never discuss the topic with her because she is adamant on her beliefs and set in her ways. I know she will never understand and it will likely be the last discussion I ever have with her. It is just her way. We are neighbors so I just want to be friendly to her. She is extremely nice with that one exception in her personality. She is generous, kind, and understanding in everything except LGBTQ issues. I'm going to tell her because I can't let her dictate my life.
Off topic but related question...when I do "come out" to this elderly neighbor, should I just go over to her house to share my journey should I come with some of my home baked cookies presenting Male or Female?
Sometimes it is easier for someone to be anti-LGBT+ in theory than it is in person. As long as they don't know one of us, they can see us as evil. When one of us is a neighbour that they like, everything can change.
I found this with the local Baptist pastor, who is chaplain at the fire department. For a while after I came out, he wouldn't speak more than a grunt to me and looked at me like I was breathing fire and brimstone and waving a pitchfork. After I forced him into conversation (Instead of saying "Hi", I said "Whatcha been up to this week?" Bwah-ha-ha!) he started to realize that I was still just a regular firefighter.
Go visit your neighbour as your old self, with the plate of cookies. Delivering the news verbally rather than visually is less of a shock.
Good morning Susan, nice to read your update !! My congratulations on coming out to middle daughter and family, that was a very uplifting story to read. Now that one daughter knows, is she inclined to pick up the phone and call her sisters, as this info has a way of "leaking" ? or did you receive assurances you and your wife get to tell first ?
As far as your "conservative" neighbor, be nice and forthcoming and may actually turn out to be an opportunity to "influence" her ? Keep it open and friendly, I like the ideas of cookies, you open the door and see if she steps through
Best
Cynthia -
Thank you ladies for your kind words and encouragement. I really appreciate you all taking time to respond. I'm at a good place but the heavy emotions really takes its toll on my energy levels. It seems like it takes me a few days to recover afterwards...or maybe I'm just getting old...lol😲
Quote from: Jessica on April 11, 2019, 08:36:48 PM
Are there any instances that may help her [your neighbor] recognize Susan?
Not really, Jessica. I'm an expert at camouflaging my femininity. Although, it has been more difficult with my hair growing long, weight loss, facial feminization from HRT, I'm pretty sure she still see's me as my male self. It will be a great shock either way.
Quote from: jkredman on April 11, 2019, 10:55:02 PM
Susan:
I wish I could add to the very good advice from Moni, KathyLauren, and others. But I can't. I can only say I'm in the exact same boat as you...
I don't know what I will ultimately say. I don't know where the conversation will finally end. Just know your not alone. I'm there, in my own way, with you.
Kate
Thank you, Kate. It is somehow comforting knowing that. It's akin to me thinking at the age of 11 that I was the ONLY person in the world that crossdressed...that I had an urge that no one else had and was too embarrassed to seek help because of the shame. Then one day, I found out that there were many others in the world who did the same thing. Nothing changed in my situation but that realization that other people in the world shared my same struggles also gave me a moment of comfort that I wasn't alone.
Quote from: KathyLauren on April 12, 2019, 08:12:02 AM
I wish you the same success with your other children.
Go visit your neighbour as your old self, with the plate of cookies. Delivering the news verbally rather than visually is less of a shock.
Thank you, KathyLauren...I hope it will be as uplifting. And as far as the neighbor situation...I will definitely come out to her in my male persona.
Quote from: CynthiaAnn on April 12, 2019, 08:42:05 AM
Now that one daughter knows, is she inclined to pick up the phone and call her sisters, as this info has a way of "leaking" ? or did you receive assurances you and your wife get to tell first ?
Best
Cynthia -
Thanks Cynthia, I told my middle daughter first because she is someone we can trust to keep it to herself. Also, I am very close to that son-in-law and I wanted to come out to the most difficult family first. I had the most to lose if they had rejected me. Now that They know, I have a more optimistic view about how the other families will go. I just hope I'm right.
The last two daughters can't keep things secret as well. My wife and I knew if we told either of them first, the others would know before we returned to our car. Because we have to travel 3 hours back North to tell the last daughter, we know there may be a chance the cat will already be out of the bag. Well, there's not much I can do about it so I'm not going to worry myself.
Susan R🌷
Hi Susan
Coming out to my kids was my most difficult revelation. My kids too are in their thirties. I just sat them down about a month after starting HRT. I explained the battle that has gone on in my head for as long as I can remember. I explained the therapy sessions I have been attending since the 80's. I explained how it affected my first marriage. I explained that the thoughts have always been there. Then after finding out about DES poisoning, they didn't have any doubt. I explained that they were miracles in that I am not well endowed and they must have been rim shots but I was so thankful they were the result. I forgot that I was the one who raised these kids. That I instilled in them tolerance, morality and avoiding the pitfalls I have encountered in my life like drugs and alcohol. How I decided they were my "Higher Power" early in their life and were considered in every decision Joann and I have made as a family. We have always had an open table where everyone is allowed to speak their minds.
I should not have worried. They told me. "You have always been our Dad" You will always be our Dad" "You have to do what is best for you". Now I am two years eight months into HRT. It has not been a subject too often. Just they know me as Dad and don't really want to see me as Mom. But they give me two thumbs up in my quest to find my place. After this was done, notifying everyone else about my transition was so much easier. The weight lifted from my shoulders was enormous and resulted in declaring, I no longer suffered from depression.
I hope your kids are as mindful that we are all complex individuals a puzzle that not every piece has a place but you are willing to take those pieces that didn't fit and adapt them to fulfill that puzzle.
Best of luck to you.
Monica...Once again your level headed advice is, right on. I have learned so much from you.
Quote from: DawnOday on April 12, 2019, 12:39:29 PM
Hi Susan
Coming out to my kids was my most difficult revelation...
...The weight lifted from my shoulders was enormous and resulted in declaring, I no longer suffered from depression.
I hope your kids are as mindful that we are all complex individuals a puzzle that not every piece has a place but you are willing to take those pieces that didn't fit and adapt them to fulfill that puzzle.
Best of luck to you.
Hello DawnOday, This too has been the case for me. After sharing this part of my life with my wife, I became a changed person in our relationship and it seemed a huge burden had been lifted. I was not quick to anger and was more forgiving. A similar thing has happened after the pressure of telling one of my daughters & son-in-laws I knew this was going to be the most difficult but with the highest pay back if it succeeded. Since last Monday, I have been feeling more free in my attitude of sharing myself and actuallly can't wait to let the other 2 daughters and their families know on the 25th. I do think both will be as understanding and will accept me as this first one did.
Susan R🌷
I feel bad that I didn't see this sooner. I am so happy for you Susan! I know you haven't completely exhaled, but this is a wonderful start to telling your kids. It's also good because this daughter and hubby can give positive feedback to the others.You have allies who have influence with your other daughters. Wow I love good news like this.
Your neighbor is going to be hit with a contradiction to her prejudice. If she likes you a lot, this will test how deep seated her views are. I have family who look down on LGBTplus but are okay with me because I am family. Not the best terms for being respected, but I'll take it. All you can do, Susan, is present your story the best you can. You can't control her response. If she rejects you, it's her loss. (If she is not okay, ask her if you should have brought a cake instead. Prejudice is so dumb, a dumb comment like that seems appropriate.)
Quote from: DawnOday on April 12, 2019, 12:39:29 PM
Monica...Once again your level headed advice is, right on. I have learned so much from you.
All I can say if this is true, Dawn, is you in a heap of trouble. ;D :P
Quote from: HappyMoni on April 13, 2019, 04:47:32 PM
I feel bad that I didn't see this sooner. I am so happy for you Susan!......Wow I love good news like this.
Your neighbor is going to be hit with a contradiction to her prejudice.....All you can do, Susan, is present your story the best you can. You can't control her response. If she rejects you, it's her loss....
I appreciate your comment HappyMoni! I like good news too and I've been on cloud nine since this all happened.
On the other topic...My wife was in a discussion with my neighbor lady friend just yesterday. They were discussing "sin" and during the conversation my wife said at one point, "but we all have struggles and we can always show
compassion and empathy for people." My neighbor responded, "Not for someone who is living in sin!" Who in this world isn't to some degree. Our neighbor's comment shows again that she is lacking both those components with a cup of shortsightedness. What is so odd is that she, in all other ways, comes across as the nicest person. She is really is a complete contradiction. We are rethinking our entire relationship with her. How can she be a true friend without these? They are both critical characteristics of ANY good friendship.
Susan R🌷
Quote from: Susan R on April 14, 2019, 12:07:21 PM
I appreciate your comment HappyMoni! I like good news too and I've been on cloud nine since this all happened.
On the other topic...My wife was in a discussion with my neighbor lady friend just yesterday. They were discussing "sin" and during the conversation my wife said at one point, "but we all have struggles and we can always show compassion and empathy for people." My neighbor responded, "Not for someone who is living in sin!" Who in this world isn't to some degree. Our neighbor's comment shows again that she is lacking both those components with a cup of shortsightedness. What is so odd is that she, in all other ways, comes across as the nicest person. She is really is a complete contradiction. We are rethinking our entire relationship with her. How can she be a true friend without these? They are both critical characteristics of ANY good friendship.
Susan R
I am amazed how many of us are in exactly the same situation. (Kids. Often in their 30s, and the stress of telling them.) I suppose I shouldn't be surprised though, since our ages probably have a lot to do with the overall timing.
And, I too, am in exactly this situation. For reasons, I intend to tell my kids in May, one at a time, by myself, as the old way they have seen me. (That said, over the years, they have noticed the women's clothes, the pierced ears, the occasional long, acrylic fingernails, etc)
As for your neighbor, you mention re-thinking your whole relationship with her. You get to do what you think best. And, my opinion is that responding to hate and rejection with rejection is not a wining strategy for either side. I think the best approach to hate and rejection is always being pleasant and considerate. I know some people are unable to do this, but even when friends call me, "man" of "bro" or use the deadname, I don't respond negatively. Mostly, I don't respond at all. For me, I would rather keep some part of the relationship, especially with those I have known for a very long time, than to be "right."
But that's just me... ;D
Kate
PS. Thank you for the thread!! The timing, and Moni's wisdom could not have come at a better time for me!!
Quote from: Susan R on April 14, 2019, 12:07:21 PM... She is really is a complete contradiction ...
beliefs based on emotional truths always are. Those 'hard-set' in those beliefs tend to cling to them without regard to fact, not truth which is completely different.
the flip side is, you will be presenting her with a fact. She will have to face it in reality, not subjectively. Hate, fear and denouncement .. or .. quick acceptance .. or .. slow drawn-out acceptance .. will be the result. If you don't present who you are, the established hate, fear, denouncement because of 'sin' wins by default.
Don't write anyone off without giving them opportunity, you do them a wrong and yourself as well. If they continue with their basis of emotional fear due to their perception of sin, so be it. You gave them a chance. It's more than we get most of the time and it's the right thing to do.
note: this is just me expressing my opinion. It's free to be taken or ignored, your choice.
Quote from: KatieP on April 14, 2019, 12:33:16 PM
And, I too, am in exactly this situation. For reasons, I intend to tell my kids in May, one at a time, by myself, as the old way they have seen me...
...As for your neighbor, you mention re-thinking your whole relationship with her. You get to do what you think best. And, my opinion is that responding to hate and rejection with rejection is not a wining strategy for either side. I think the best approach to hate and rejection is always being pleasant and considerate.
Kate
PS. Thank you for the thread!! The timing, and Moni's wisdom could not have come at a better time for me!!
Originally, I really wanted to tell my girls all at once but due to them all living so far away it makes this Very difficult. We do all get together on major holidays but in a festive celebratory atmosphere, news of this kind can change the focus and mood of a family gathering. They would need to meet together in a more spontaneous fashion which was not likely anytime soon. Doing family by family is working fine so far.
Anyone who knows me, knows I am not vengeful in any way. I would never respond negatively to my neighbors rejection, if that is the final result. By "rethinking the relationship" I meant lowering my expectations of her friendship. For me, friendship is not just a one way thing. There has to be some give and take along the way. I will likely give her plenty of time to process things. If my neighbor wanted to have a restart our friendship with my wife and my true self, I'd be there for her.
And thank you Kate for taking time to respond. I wish you well on your journey and coming out to your children.
Quote from: Faith on April 14, 2019, 01:37:41 PM
...Don't write anyone off without giving them opportunity, you do them a wrong and yourself as well. If they continue with their basis of emotional fear due to their perception of sin, so be it. You gave them a chance. It's more than we get most of the time and it's the right thing to do.
note: this is just me expressing my opinion. It's free to be taken or ignored, your choice.
Thank you Faith for your insight and time. I do try to be open minded but I'm also a realist. I perhaps have mentally written her off because I've seen her withdraw in so many relationships in the past after someone rubbed her the wrong way. Even after they would apologize, she was very nice to them but never made any effort to rekindle their friendship again. Once you get on her bad side, it's like climbing Mt. Everest to get back in her good graces. I should have mentioned this along with the original question. I don't mean to short sell her but I know how she is set in her ways.
Susan R🌷
Hi Susan,
You are smart to go into telling someone you think might be hostile with a little self protection. I guess this is why each person I told, I mentally prepared that it could go bad. Then if it went well, so much the better. If this neighbor is really invested in her morality for her self concept, she might turn on you. Kudos for preparing.
I think of a nephew of mine who was the only family member to reject me. He might be described as a redneck I guess. I wrote him a letter telling him of my situation and never got any response. My niece is fine. When I went down for my mother's funeral, he stayed in another room and didn't talk to me. I can't say I feel real friendly towards him, because his attitude keeps me from my other loved ones. My door is still open though, even if just for a question. Maybe in time, he'll lighten up. I'm told it is religion that bothers him. I think it is just an excuse though, he didn't object to me being atheist. I thought of a follow up letter, but no, I will not open myself up to be hurt if he doesn't show interest.
Kate, I hope you will let us know how it goes telling your kids. Figures crossed for you.
Warmly,
Moni
Quote from: HappyMoni on April 14, 2019, 07:32:02 PM
Hi Susan,
You are smart to go into telling someone you think might be hostile with a little self protection. I guess this is why each person I told, I mentally prepared that it could go bad. Then if it went well, so much the better. If this neighbor is really invested in her morality for her self concept, she might turn on you. Kudos for preparing....
....I thought of a follow up letter.
I have never been in direct conflict with this neighbor in any way since I met her 6 years ago but she might be the type that would turn on me before completely shutting the door. It is possible that she might not even let me finish with my complete life story and explanation. This neighbor is strongly set in her beliefs.
I was also thinking ofof using a letter within a letter approach like I did last month with a very long distance sibling. I sent a somewhat non-revealing letter to prepare her explaining my need to make some life changes and explained what triggered me to share this information with her. Then I enclosed a 3 page letter of my life story from birth to the present day...the parts of my life she did not know. This ended up being a very successful way to do it. Since I live so close to this neighbor lady friend, i was thinking I had to do it in person. Perhaps though, the "letter within the letter" idea might be better to get her to take the time to really "hear me out—start to finish".
Given the circumstances shared regarding my neighbor lady friend, which approach would you (or anyone else) think would have a better chance at success or most appropriate?
Susan R🌷
Susan,
If you want to make sure to explain your story, and you think she might cut you off, the letter might be best. I liked telling face to face because I could look at their faces and get a better feel for their true reactions. It is kind of personal preference, I guess. I think your letter in a letter idea is genius. You prep them to listen up. I really think preparing someone that something important is about to be discussed is so, so important. Good on ya!
Moni
I have a specific question resulting from my coming out to my children. It's more of a conundrum than anything. By months end, all 3 daughters and family will know about my life change. I was at my TG support group last night and surprisingly no one had a good answer to this so I am reaching out to see if anyone here has some good ideas regarding this question.
I'm currently introduced as "this is my Dad" by my 3 girls at any outings, BBQ's, weddings, , picnics, grandkid's birthday parties, etc... I'm going to start presenting as myself at all these events very soon. Ultimately, it will be up to my children and what they feel most comfortable calling me. However, if they ask me how I want to be introduced, what would I say to them?
Two caveats to keep in mind though...
1) I prefer NOT to be called "Dad" while presenting as Susan with my wife at any of these gatherings.
2) I prefer it NOT be impersonal, distant, or lacking any kind of relational connection. (For instance, "This is Susan" or "This is my mom's spouse, Susan").
Anyone have any ideas on how my kids could finish this sentence below?
This is my Mom and this is ____________.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Susan R🌷
Hi Susan, I always liked the sound of "Maddy", but I realize this is very personal for you.
I have family personal I go by with just us and their friends....
Hope things are well with you....
Cynthia -
Quote from: Susan R on April 18, 2019, 12:39:15 PM
I have a specific question resulting from my coming out to my children. It's more of a conundrum than anything. By months end, all 3 daughters and family will know about my life change. I was at my TG support group last night and surprisingly no one had a good answer to this so I am reaching out to see if anyone here has some good ideas regarding this question.
I'm currently introduced as "this is my Dad" by my 3 girls at any outings, BBQ's, weddings, , picnics, grandkid's birthday parties, etc... I'm going to start presenting as myself at all these events very soon. Ultimately, it will be up to my children and what they feel most comfortable calling me. However, if they ask me how I want to be introduced, what would I say to them?
Two caveats to keep in mind though...
1) I prefer NOT to be called "Dad" while presenting as Susan with my wife at any of these gatherings.
2) I prefer it NOT be impersonal, distant, or lacking any kind of relational connection. (For instance, "This is Susan" or "This is my mom's spouse, Susan").
Anyone have any ideas on how my kids could finish this sentence below?
This is my Mom and this is ____________.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Susan R
So, it seems to me you are saying you don't want Left, and you don't want right. I don't see an obvious option that is both personal and not
something that will connect you to the old person.
Kate
Ultimately, you decide what's right for you .. you decided if the cost is worth it.
I am Dad to my children, I have always been Dad, I will always be Dad so long as that is what they wish to call me. In this particular instance, I feel that their comfort is more important than mine. Should they decide that calling me Dad is weird and pick something else or if they keep calling me Dad either way is OK with me. I am their Dad. My current status has not changed that one whit.
You have to decide what works for you, just remember, it may not work for them and you have to live with that.
Quote from: CynthiaAnn on April 18, 2019, 12:48:29 PM
Hi Susan, I always liked the sound of "Maddy", but I realize this is very personal for you.
I have family personal I go by with just us and their friends....
Hope things are well with you....
Cynthia -
Hi Cynthia, Maddy is a cute name. Maybe my kids will come up with a nickname that I'll like too. Things are really going well right now...much better than I expected at this stage in my journey. Thanks again for your input and support.
Quote from: KatieP on April 18, 2019, 10:08:58 PM
So, it seems to me you are saying you don't want Left, and you don't want right. I don't see an obvious option that is both personal and not something that will connect you to the old person.
Kate
Actually Kate, I'm probably looking for something that may not yet exist in our English vocabulary...possibly a
neutral gendered term of endearment. I'm not so much looking for a name they can call me directly to get my attention but a name they can introduce me as to others I have not yet met. But I was hoping for one that would not leave an awkward moment at the time of introduction. "Dad" has a male gendered term and would no doubt cause exactly that.
Quote from: Faith on April 18, 2019, 11:23:33 PM
...Should they decide that calling me Dad is weird and pick something else or if they keep calling me Dad either way is OK with me. I am their Dad....
....You have to decide what works for you, just remember, it may not work for them and you have to live with that.
Ultimately Faith, I'll let them call me whatever they want. I want them to feel comfortable when introducing me. And really this is a question of how to be introduced to others when I'm full time which will be coming up very soon. At home, at a restaurant, or on a picnic, it makes no difference if they call me Dad, my dead name, or what have you. In front of others though, while being introduced, this is what I'm trying to find a compromise. There may not be one but I thought I'd see if anyone else had one before giving up on "comfortable introductions".
Susan R🌷
Honestly I would think most of the time your children could just call you Susan. If a situation occurs and they need to something more maybe then come up with a goto. using "Parent" may work, they may think its a bit strange not to say mom or dad but using Dad would be even stranger, not many people would actually try and push the issue, after the initial introduction just steer the conversation away and it will be quickly forgotten.
Quote from: Quinn on April 19, 2019, 06:22:03 AM
Honestly I would think most of the time your children could just call you Susan. If a situation occurs and they need to something more maybe then come up with a goto. using "Parent" may work, they may think its a bit strange not to say mom or dad but using Dad would be even stranger, not many people would actually try and push the issue, after the initial introduction just steer the conversation away and it will be quickly forgotten.
Thanks Quinn. I agree, it looks like I'll probably go by this default assuming my children are ok with it too.
"Parents" works very well if I'm right there with my wife being introduced.
"These are my parents...[insert wife's name] and Susan" It doesn't seem to work quite as well if I'm introduced by myself but it's much better than "Dad".
"This is my parent, Susan" or maybe
"This is one of my parents, Susan"Thanks again for your suggestion, Quinn. I'm feeling very good about these options. They seem to accomplish both goals mentioned above.
Susan R🌷
Quote from: Susan R on April 19, 2019, 02:00:14 PM
"This is one of my parents, Susan"
Oooooooohhhhhh. I
LIKE it! To the listener, you might be the mom...
Very good...
Kate
Thank you Susan for starting this topic, and to all the ladies who have responded. I too, am in this group of transitioners with children in their 30's, and grand kids I adore, and this topic covers a source of anxiety for me. My children have known all their lives that their Dad has a strong feminine side, my daughter calls me "second Mum". My son knows that I cry at, well, almost anything emotional, but then, he does too. It's not so much my children, or grandchildren I worry about, but their extended families. I know my daughters in laws will make derogatory comments when they find out, and may pressure my son in law to keep me away from grand kids. I am very slowly easing through getting everybody used to an ever more feminine me, and hoping it all goes well. I'm also working at making myself so much a part of their lives that they would have trouble cutting me out.
Neighbours are another challenge altogether. All my neighbours know I am the long haired house keeper who does all the domestic duties while my wife does all the outside work at home. I'm tipping many would have noticed there are only female clothes on our washing line except for my work uniforms. The keener eyes would also notice two different sizes of everything, especially bras. I'm not expecting them to understand, but I'm not expecting them to be shocked either.
My plan is to wait until HRT has people asking what is going on before I come out, as I believe it will be easier for people to accept if the vision before them matches the gender I must be. It is still a scary part of transition, and I have gained so much insight form this topic, so, once again, thank you all.
Allie
My daughter in law has always called me by my name. My son calls me Dad but I am working on that as it would not be cool to be in public and have it happen. One or both of us would be looked at as being crazy!
Quote from: KatieP on April 19, 2019, 05:05:05 PM
Oooooooohhhhhh. I LIKE it! To the listener, you might be the mom...
Very good...
Kate
Good point, Kate. I might as well have some fun with it..no?!
Quote from: Allie Jayne on April 19, 2019, 05:48:21 PM
Neighbours are another challenge altogether....
My plan is to wait until HRT has people asking what is going on before I come out, as I believe it will be easier for people to accept if the vision before them matches the gender I must be. It is still a scary part of transition, and I have gained so much insight form this topic, so, once again, thank you all.
Allie
And thank you Allie. I very much appreciate your comment and your time.
As far as my neighbors, I only have the one lady friend that concerns me at this point. My wife & I have a great relationship with her and it will be put directly to the test when I tell her. The rest of the neighbors are either new to the neighborhood, keep to themselves, or won't give a darn about me transitioning. Over the past 7 months, I've lost 70 pounds which many neighbors have attributed my "facial and body changes" to that with the exception of my much longer hair. When I finally come out, it'll still be a surprise but it will be "lightbulb turning on" moment for them. They'll all finally be able to put all the pieces of the puzzle together.
Quote from: JudiBlueEyes on April 19, 2019, 05:50:04 PM
...My son calls me Dad but I am working on that as it would not be cool to be in public and have it happen. One or both of us would be looked at as being crazy!
Yes, that was my thinking too, Judi. Which is the reason I was hoping for some suggestions about this. I think I have some realistic options in front of me now.
Susan R🌷
Hi Susan, I don't think there is a perfect answer to this. My kids settled on parent or Moni. I like 'Moni' because it sounds a lot like 'Mommie' but I don't tell them that. Rarely, at home, they might refer to me saying "my Dad.' That's cool with me. They surprised me one year with Moni Day, saying Father's Day didn't seem quite right anymore. My son has a dog now so I am Grandmoni. I wasn't thrilled with being called Grandma anyway. lol Look forward to hearing about your other daughters.
Wait, you lost 70 pounds? Wow that's great! Congrats!
Quote from: HappyMoni on April 20, 2019, 05:25:11 AM
Hi Susan, I don't think there is a perfect answer to this. My kids settled on parent or Moni. I like 'Moni' because it sounds a lot like 'Mommie' but I don't tell them that. Rarely, at home, they might refer to me saying "my Dad.' That's cool with me. They surprised me one year with Moni Day, saying Father's Day didn't seem quite right anymore. My son has a dog now so I am Grandmoni. I wasn't thrilled with being called Grandma anyway. lol Look forward to hearing about your other daughters.
Wait, you lost 70 pounds? Wow that's great! Congrats!
Hi Moni, I'm really happy about the use of 'parent or parents' along with 'Susan' when being introduced. It has the desired relational connection to my daughters (and son-in laws) with a personal touch by the use of my name. I think it works well. :)
Also Moni, thank you for the congrats...now the hard part...maintaining my current weight for the rest of my life one day at a time. Weight has a way of slowly creeping up on us doesn't it? I'm ready it time around.😉
I'll be sure to update here on how it goes with my daughters and their families next weekend. I'm really looking forward to getting it all out there and starting a new relationship of acceptance and openness with them.
Susan R🌷
Best of luck with the coming out and the weight. I really have to watch it since being post op. The metabolism sure does change. If I could just get it to go to my butt!
Coming Out Update:
This week has been very interesting, painful and life changing to say this least.
Well, it started early this week with a completely unavoidable error. A text app bug that causes the window or screen to jump if the page is not fully loaded and a text was sent to the wrong person...it's an ongoing issue with this text app but hadn't ever caused any real trouble or embarrassment until now.
While my wife was sending her good friend a text update about our PFLAG meeting (an LGBTQ support group) regarding the previous evening, the text was sent inadvertently to our daughter. We thought if our daughter knew what the PFLAG acronym meant or noticed it in the text. If so, the jig was up.. We decided, instead of waiting to find out if she knew, to just call her and set up a time to talk. It was just time to get it over with once and for all and tell her my truth. We were initially going to tell this daughter last because we were not sure if she would keep quiet about it until we could talk to the very last of our 3 daughters.
Well, our daughter came over to our place on Tuesday evening...alone. Her new 2nd hubby of 1 week was at home watching our grandson. My wife and I talked to her for about an hour and she had no issues at all with me being Susan or any aspect of my transitioning. She said there was no need to read my letter or my life testimony right there & then. In fact she spent most of the evening sharing about HER wild & crazy years in the LGBTQ community. I felt bad that she would not read it with me there..but she was in a hurry, apparently. I told her to please read it in front of her new hubby when she got home and text me how it went with him. About 2 hours went by and I receive a text saying, "It went ok. I'm really tired and need to sleep now. Good nite."
The following day, Wednesday was not a good day for me. My wife & I received another text from that daughter and they said they are no longer going to a family May 5th birthday party. I was planning to meet all the families wearing some skinny jeans, ladies sneakers and a little mascara...for a sort of an androgynous look. My intention is not to shock anyone but to just look less masculine. Our daughter also texted that she is now canceling her June 23rd wedding reception because she and her new hubby don't feel comfortable with his parents meeting me as Susan. We texted them that we didn't want to spoil her reception and that we can either forego coming to the reception or just come as my male persona if they preferred that. As of this writing, her wedding reception is still canceled.🙁
An hour later, my other daughter (the first daughter I came out to) texts and says she is buying some Trans educational children's books for the kids but would prefer us to forgo attending The upcoming May 5th Birthday party for my grandson (their son). They aren't ready to expose the kids to Susan and they don't want to make Susan wear male clothes just to attend the party. I have to admit, these conversations really hurt but I had told each of my daughters that "it was up to them how to tell them about Susan and when to allow them to meet Susan." I have to stick by this no matter how painful it is.
On Thursday, we drove down to my youngest daughters home west of Olympia, WA. The kids were in school Friday until 4:30pm so we decided to tell them in the afternoon before the kids got home. It went surprisingly well. My daughter held my hand and gave me a big hug. And she shed a tear or two. Both of them were very affirming and accepting of Susan. When the kids arrived home we went on a 2 mile walk in the woods near their home and then we went out for dinner. It was fun. We got home and made some coffee and all sat down together. I slowly and carefully explained my life story to the kids at their age level (ages 8 & 10). I didn't lose their focus and they had many question after carefully listening. They both accepted me and will start calling me "Grammy Susan". These kids were wonderful about it all. I truly think they just want me to be happy.
Everything went really well in regards to my "coming out" to my last daughter. I'm just not sure if there will be a little "pull back" after some time has passed. This seems to be what happened after coming out with the first two daughters. Time will tell with them too I suppose.
So at this point, all my friends and family know except one neighbor lady friend. I'm almost completely out now and my stress level is waning. I thought "coming out" the first time would be the hardest but it might end up being the very last that will be the most difficult.
Thank you all for reading this rather long update,
Susan R🌷
An Update to my Coming Out Update:
Something happened to my daughter and grandchildren after we left their home Saturday evening. I was just told about this via text and I've received very little detail about it so far.
As I mentioned previously, I came out to my last family member this weekend...my daughter, her fiancé and my two grandchildren(ages 8 & 10). They accepted me completely and even wanted to see me as myself and it all went very smoothly.
However, when my wife and I got on the road that evening, my 'soon to be' son-in-law, decided to 'come out' to my daughter and her children. Apparently, he is transgendered too. From what was texted...he told my daughter that he was inspired by my Life Changes email that I wrote and my three page "Introduction to Susan" which I had printed off and read to them. I feel so bad for my daughter and grandchildren. They lost two male figures in their life. It was totally unexpected and even though I'm not directly responsible for his 'coming out' or his timing on his disclosure, part of me feels indirectly responsible for the pain my daughter and her kids are feeling right now.
Also, I'm now a little concerned about how this will affect the acceptance of my other family members regarding my recent transition disclosure. I wish my 'maybe soon to be' son-in-law would have waited until his fiancé and the grandchildren had time to process my information. Maybe that is being selfish on my part but it doesn't seem right to drop 2 bombshells all at once.
Susan R🌷
Susan, I agree with you. I hope it all works out.
Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
Susan, the timing of your future son-in-law's coming out is certainly unfortunate. But it is something that was totally out of your hands. I think you did an excellent job of coming out to your family.
I feel for your daughter and grandchildren: they have had a double shock.
Thank you, Denise and KathyLauren for your comments. It is going to be much harder now going forward. My other 2 daughters have now gone silent. I'm not sure if it's pure shock at the overall situation or just worrying about saying the wrong thing to my wife and I. Either way, the silence in our camp is deafening. I hope things get better soon.
Susan R🌷
Susan,
I would suggest not panicking. Give them time to do some processing. It is a lot. Your daughter with the fiance who came out has a LOT to process. I'm sorry this is so hard. Silence on their part isn't necessarily bad. Patience is what you need. You want to guide them, I know, but try to let them think a bit.
Moni
Quote from: HappyMoni on April 30, 2019, 07:24:45 PM
Susan,
I would suggest not panicking. Give them time to do some processing. It is a lot. Your daughter with the fiance who came out has a LOT to process. I'm sorry this is so hard. Silence on their part isn't necessarily bad. Patience is what you need. You want to guide them, I know, but try to let them think a bit.
Moni
I agree Moni, my daughter has much to process and she even said so herself in one her her last texts. She said she needs time and can't share much with anyone right now. I'm just going to give her as much slack as possible. I'll be right there for her when she needs me. Right now, it's a whirlwind for her and she is trying her best to keep things together and seemingly normal for her children. Thank you for the advice. I think waiting is all I can do anyways. I don't have enough information to make the next move even if it wanted.
Susan R🌷
Coming Out Update...
So my entire faimily knows about my transition now except for 4 of my 7 grandchildren. Two of my daughters wanted to tell their 2 children themselves.
Last night, my wife had a long text conversation with the first daughter we told. The parent were very affirming and accepting. They wanted to wait until the others knew about me before they shared it with their children so not to have it all come out before I had a chance to do it in person.
The ordered some books to help them explain my transition. The Trans books for kids came in yesterday and they sat down with their children last night and read the books and then proceeded in sharing my news with my grandson who is age 9 and my granddaughter age 12. The both took it really hard. Apparently, my grandson cried and said he didn't want to lose Papa. I feel so bad right now. My granddaughter was trying to makes sense of it all and misses Papa too.
When I see visit them as Susan for the first time later this month, I will try to assure them that I am the same person inside. My other grandchildren had no issues at all with my transition when I explained it myself in their terms. I wonder if it's harder if I'm not there to deliver the news. I need to get them to see that I will continue to love them as I always have.
Susan R🌷
Aww that's tender Susan, it takes time, I can understand the little one's feeling a sense of loss. I hope your in person visits are productive, provide continuity and reassurances you are the same person on the inside.
Hugs
Cynthia -
Quote from: Susan R on May 04, 2019, 11:47:39 PM
The ordered some books to help them explain my transition. The Trans books for kids came in yesterday and they sat down with their children last night and read the books and then proceeded in sharing my news with my grandson who is age 9 and my granddaughter age 12. The both took it really hard. Apparently, my grandson cried and said he didn't want to lose Papa. I feel so bad right now. My granddaughter was trying to makes sense of it all and misses Papa too.
When I see visit them as Susan for the first time later this month, I will try to assure them that I am the same person inside. My other grandchildren had no issues at all with my transition when I explained it myself in their terms. I wonder if it's harder if I'm not there to deliver the news. I need to get them to see that I will continue to love them as I always have.
Susan R🌷
Step by gentle step, you are getting there. I am watching with interest as this is a path I must follow some day. Perhaps build bridges between you former and current self by bringing up memories you and your grandkids share, or engage in activities and games they would already relate to you. Children are usually readily accepting of change which is well presented. You may end up feeling a bit miffed when they tell you they like the new you better!
Allie
Quote from: CynthiaAnn on May 04, 2019, 11:51:32 PM
Aww that's tender Susan, it takes time, I can understand the little one's feeling a sense of loss. I hope your in person visits are productive, provide continuity and reassurances you are the same person on the inside.
Thank you Cynthia. After the first set of grandkids accepting so easily, I really didn't expect a sad reaction from the second set of grandkids but I think my presence would have made it a little easier. My daughters texts sort of caught me off guard.
Quote from: Allie Jayne on May 05, 2019, 02:41:42 AM
Step by gentle step, you are getting there....Perhaps build bridges between you former and current self by bringing up memories you and your grandkids share, or engage in activities and games they would already relate to you. Children are usually readily accepting of change which is well presented.
This is a really good idea, Allie. Last month on their Spring break, when my wife & I were with them house/baby sitting for 5 days. We did a lot of daily walks together with them. That might be a great beginning step. It was a fun memory for us and the grandkids.
Quote from: Allie Jayne on May 05, 2019, 02:41:42 AM
You may end up feeling a bit miffed when they tell you they like the new you better!
You're not kidding. It's bad enough my wife tells me this periodically. But in all seriousness, I'm glad she does because Susan is the real me.
Susan R🌷
Update:
Well I have reached a milestone today! I am officially out to everyone I know and to the world at large. I had one person left to share my news with before I was able to go "full time" and that happened early this morning.
I came out to siblings first and then my daughters individually and the grandchildren, then my cousins, nieces and nephews, then my friends and then my neighbors. So Thursday evening, I decided I wanted to get this "coming out" stuff done for good. All my neighbors were home so I started with one and asked each if they had 10-15 mins. I guess that was the day because each of them accepted me as myself with no issues. I was hoping for a good result and I got it. Some of them shared their secrets too which I did not expect at all. It immediately changed the relationship to a more friendly comforting one after my talk.
There was only the one conservative Christian lady friend that we saved for last. My wife and I had procrastinated so long mainly because we already knew she would reject us. We had a good friendship with her that has lasted years. We knew that the relationship would end immediately so it was easy to postpone. Today, we decided we were going to bite the bullet. We told her and she did not respond well and we didn't really know what to expect from her from that point forward. She came back over this afternoon and had a complete change of heart. She said she loved me and did not want to lose the great friendship we had built over the years. My wife and I were blown away. I felt like crying it was so heart warming. She really cherished our relationship that much. I sort of felt bad for writing her off.
I can now be myself "full time". No more going back and forth, male to female. It gets old so fast it makes your head spin. I feel so relieved to have this part of my transition completed. My wife and I are ready for the next step...whatever that might be.
Susan R🌷
Wow, fantastic Susan! I am so happy it went so well and now you are freeee! Yea! I have to say some folks surprised me on the upside as well. I only lost one relative. I know you feel great getting that monkey off your back. Hugs! Moni
Quote from: Susan R on May 19, 2019, 08:42:04 PM
There was only the one conservative Christian lady friend that we saved for last. My wife and I had procrastinated so long mainly because we already knew she would reject us. We had a good friendship with her that has lasted years. We knew that the relationship would end immediately so it was easy to postpone. Today, we decided we were going to bite the bullet. We told her and she did not respond well and we didn't really know what to expect from her from that point forward. She came back over this afternoon and had a complete change of heart. She said she loved me and did not want to lose the great friendship we had built over the years. My wife and I were blown away. I felt like crying it was so heart warming. She really cherished our relationship that much.
Very nice Susan :) on your neighbor having a change of heart, this was pleasant to read this evening. You are now in ambassador territory, well done !
Congrats on full time, and life the way it should be...
Hugs
Cynthia -
Wow, congratulations Susan and thank you for sharing your experiences. I have learned a lot through you, and I am inspired. Well done and you deserve an ordinay life!!
Allie
Hi Susan,
I just wanted to let you know that your posts literally had me in tears. I'm thrilled that you have such a supportive family. It really shows that you raised them right! Congrats on your "coming out" conversations with them! Oh and good luck with your other daughters and their families too.
I just turned 50 a couple of months ago and have never admitted to another soul in this world what I'm about to tell you. But your courage has given me the courage to finally admit, somewhat publicly, to a secret that I've been keeping for 45 years. That secret is that I was born in the wrong body. I'm transgender. I've known since I was around the age of 5 that I was different from the other boys my age. In fact I never truly felt like I was a boy. I remember like it was yesterday the way the boys in my kindergarten class made fun of me for playing dolls with the girls instead of playing with traditional boy toys. It was horrible to say the least. No one should ever be made to feel the way I felt.
Like most children facing intense criticism I bowed to public pressure and started acting like a "normal" boy, but I was never happy about it. Apparently I guess I was a good actor though, because no one ever called me out on it again. As I got older I realized that there was nothing I would ever be able to do to change my situation, so I made the best out of life that I could. That included never telling a living soul my secret. I tamped down my natural inclinations, the real me so to speak, as best as I could and continued to be someone else. I eventually married and had a child (now a 15 year old girl).
I'm now divorced and live alone so I'm free to be the real me when I'm within the confines of my apartment...and no one suspects a thing. I spend nearly every second of my free time dreaming of becoming the real me, but I don't think it will ever happen. I could never, ever, possibly pass for a woman. I'm 6'4" and weigh 275 pounds and look really masculine. I have a very deep voice that I would never be able to hide. I've spent hours practicing a female voice utilizing various voice coach's videos online. Occasionally I'll think I finally got the voice right...then my world crashes down and I get very disappointed when I listen to recordings of it and I sound almost like my normal self.
It's really disheartening to know that the times have finally changed so much that a person like me could finally be socially accepted, but then realize that I could never physically attain my goals no matter how hard I tried. But I've started making little changes that make me feel better. Like you I've started growing my hair longer, I also added in shaving my legs and trying to learn how to wear proper makeup. I too lived most of my life with a buzz cut, so people have been asking questions. I just play it off like I want to try something new.
Also like you I really do think my family would be supportive of me making the change. Especially my mom and my daughter. Even though my daughter would be happy for me, I fear what would happen to her at school if the information ever got out though. My mom might be shocked at first, but then she'd go all in for it. She's the very first person I ever knew who fought for LBGTQ people in my very conservative state. When my nephew, her grandson, came out as gay, she couldn't have been prouder.
I thought it would be scary admitting my secret to someone...but it actually felt good. I guess it just feels good to be able to share with someone. Thank you for giving me that courage! Until the day arrives that I could ever possibly afford HRT, Facial Feminization Surgery, and SRS, I'll have to be content to live vicariously through people such as yourself. Your story made me so happy for you, happy enough to bring me to tears. Also happy enough to finally tell someone about the real me. Just know that you inspire me!!
Lexxi
I'm so glad things went well with your other family members and your neighbors too. When I wrote my letter to you, I somehow skipped over your update letter. Sorry about that. I guess I just got ahead of myself. Good luck with your next step...whatever that might be. :)
Wow.... I'm impressed with the amount of words and effort you put in to coming out... i admire that.
I used gradually dressing more male. And yesterday I came out by being self absorbed and happily blurting out that i was excited that someone had shouted an insult at me for being a gay man. And my daughter said angrily "you want to be a man." I said I want to be in the middle. To soften the impact. So i think i'll gradually shift visually almost imperceptibly from now and stay in the comfort zone. Or on the edge of the comfort zone. Until it becomes the new normal. Until i forget and make a jump suddenly again by mistake. It's the things i say or do. I wear men's clothes. Nobody notices. Or i get compliments for my new haircut. Almost nothing will convince people unless it's a male voice or a beard. But for mtf it's more visible. Because female clothing can be so extreme. I think when I go on T I will not be able to keep it under the radar. But as far as I can tell my kids do not care about my gender very much.
Somehow it seems that it is easy to accept for anyone but my husband . He prefers me in the middle . Not on the male side of the spectrum physically, that is, as in muscle is fine and as long as i shave my face that is ok. Hairy legs and armpits are no problem. Male scents and clothes are fine. A packer is fine with him. Binding is no problem but i have so little that when i bind it does not really make much of a difference anyway.
From the advice I had from ftm whose partner stayed with them it's key to go slow and to have others in a similar situation to talk to. So i provided him with contact information and people he could talk to. And i ask him wheter he is ok with some changes like wheter he is ok with informing certain people. Mostly however information gets exchanged in the subtext of communication. I hardly ever 'tell' anyone. Except my parents and brother. I texted them. We live hours away. And texting felt right.
Hi LexxiMTF :icon_wave:
Welcome to Susan's Place :) Glad to have you here, join on in the fun
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Things that you should read
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Hugs
V M
Thank you so much VM!! I'll go there and introduce myself shortly. I'm actually glad that you responded. I've been pulling my hair out trying to figure out how I can add an avatar and personalize my account. I sure hope that one of those links teaches me how to do it.
Thank you for the warm welcome. From what I've seen and read so far I believe I've found the right place to be myself. Like I said in reply to Susan's post this is all very new to me, and I don't have anyone I can talk to about it. At least no one I can talk to in person that is.
Looking forward to opening up here with you kind folks.
xoxo
Lexxi
Quote from: LexxiMTF on May 20, 2019, 12:35:53 AM
I spend nearly every second of my free time dreaming of becoming the real me, but I don't think it will ever happen. I could never, ever, possibly pass for a woman. I'm 6'4" and weigh 275 pounds and look really masculine. I have a very deep voice that I would never be able to hide. I've spent hours practicing a female voice utilizing various voice coach's videos online. Occasionally I'll think I finally got the voice right...then my world crashes down and I get very disappointed when I listen to recordings of it and I sound almost like my normal self.
It's really disheartening to know that the times have finally changed so much that a person like me could finally be socially accepted, but then realize that I could never physically attain my goals no matter how hard I tried. But I've started making little changes that make me feel better. Like you I've started growing my hair longer, I also added in shaving my legs and trying to learn how to wear proper makeup. I too lived most of my life with a buzz cut, so people have been asking questions. I just play it off like I want to try something new.
Don't give up hope on your dream of being who you are. I find more peace in the fact that I'm moving closer to becoming a woman than the "finally getting there" part of the journey. Becoming a woman is so much more than outward appearances. It's the steps backwards that are the most painful long term. Look at your immediate goals and do your best to get where you want to be one day at a time. Very few women are 100% happy about how they present..whether it be a bad hair day, crappy makeup day, or nothing to wear, etc.... You can go at your own pace and periodically look back and see how far you've come. I don't notice much change day to day but when I look where I am today it's seemingly unbelievable.
Quote from: LexxiMTF on May 20, 2019, 12:35:53 AMAlso like you I really do think my family would be supportive of me making the change. Especially my mom and my daughter. Even though my daughter would be happy for me, I fear what would happen to her at school if the information ever got out though. My mom might be shocked at first, but then she'd go all in for it. She's the very first person I ever knew who fought for LBGTQ people in my very conservative state. When my nephew, her grandson, came out as gay, she couldn't have been prouder.
I really like your mom. I wish mine had been so supportive.
Quote from: LexxiMTF on May 20, 2019, 12:35:53 AMI thought it would be scary admitting my secret to someone...but it actually felt good. I guess it just feels good to be able to share with someone. Thank you for giving me that courage! Until the day arrives that I could ever possibly afford HRT, Facial Feminization Surgery, and SRS, I'll have to be content to live vicariously through people such as yourself. Your story made me so happy for you, happy enough to bring me to tears. Also happy enough to finally tell someone about the real me. Just know that you inspire me!!
Thank you for your kindness, Lexxi.
Quote from: Vethrvolnir on May 20, 2019, 08:43:18 AM
Wow.... I'm impressed with the amount of words and effort you put in to coming out... i admire that.
I used gradually dressing more male.
Thank you, Vethrvolnir. I do try to be as clear and concise as I can be. It's therapeutic in a way and I enjoy sharing my stories..
I was thinking about gradually coming out to everyone but I just wanted it to be done. Even doing it like that it spanned a month at least. I asked the parents of my grandchildren if they wanted me to go slow and gradual into and eventual full Susan mode. Of my three daughters, my youngest aughter already let me dress as myself on the same day as I came out to my grandkids. It went very well. The middle daughter is coming over on May 26th to meet me as Susan. I'm still waiting for them to tell me if they want me to gradually introduce Susan all at once or over a few weeks. They have already been informed of my transition and took it hard. My oldest daughter was planning on introducing me to her sons on Memorial Day (May 27th) but her new "conservative" hubby have sort of put a damper on that. He's reluctant to let them get to know me. He himself is reluctant to meet me as Susan too. He's a true killjoy.
Quote from: Vethrvolnir on May 20, 2019, 08:43:18 AMSomehow it seems that it is easy to accept for anyone but my husband . He prefers me in the middle . Not on the male side of the spectrum physically, that is, as in muscle is fine and as long as i shave my face that is ok. Hairy legs and armpits are no problem. Male scents and clothes are fine. A packer is fine with him. Binding is no problem but i have so little that when i bind it does not really make much of a difference anyway.
When I came out to my wife, I gave her full control of when I presented and how far I could go. If she wasn't game, it didn't happen. Eventually, she relaxed more and more of the restrictions and after several months, there were no restrictions. She is very comfortable with me completely feminine ;) doing anything as Susan wherever I want. It has gone very well.
Quote from: Vethrvolnir on May 20, 2019, 08:43:18 AMMostly however information gets exchanged in the subtext of communication. I hardly ever 'tell' anyone. Except my parents and brother. I texted them. We live hours away. And texting felt right.
I had to email a few people that lived across the country. I included a PDF of my life story too. It worked well even though it wasn't as personal as I preferred. They eventually emailed, texted, or called me to reply. Everyone does it differently but the two main things that seem to dictate which method of disclosure is best are...how close you are to them and how far away they are. Another factor is how soon you need to tell them. I drove for 3 hours one way to tell my youngest daughter because I had to tell her first (for various reasons). Otherwise, I would've had to wait another month to come out as she was going to be busy after that window of time.
Susan R🌷
Susan, I just read your story and I'm glad to hear you're finally completely out and that overall it was accepted well. What a relief for you. Congratulations.
I might have missed it but are you still working? If so how did those conversations go?
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Quote from: Wendi on May 20, 2019, 11:22:09 PM
Susan, I just read your story and I'm glad to hear you're finally completely out and that overall it was accepted well. What a relief for you. Congratulations.
I might have missed it but are you still working? If so how did those conversations go?
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Thank you, Wendi for taking time to read through my 'coming out' journey. And yes, it is truly a relief to finally get it all done once and for all. Although, I had an unplanned discussion with another neighbor much further down the road a few hours ago so there may likely be others along the way but for the most part, it's done. My wife and I are retired empty nesters so we didn't have to deal with any of those issues. We did let one of the previous coworkers who we are still in contact with know about my changes. It was the third person I came out to, in fact. My wife and brother-in-law being the first two people to know.
Susan R🌷
Hi Susan,
Thank you so much for the kind words of support. They mean a lot to me. As I read back through some of what I wrote I realized that I failed to mention something. It was something really big that caught my attention, but as I wrote to you it slipped my mind.
What I'm talking about is the fact that your wife ROCKS!! She must be an amazing woman, and I think you're very lucky to have her in your life. I'm so glad that she accepts you for who you really are. Having someone with that much compassion and understanding is very rare nowadays. Kudos to her!
Lexxi
Quote from: LexxiMTF on May 21, 2019, 12:39:30 AM
What I'm talking about is the fact that your wife ROCKS!! She must be an amazing woman, and I think you're very lucky to have her in your life. I'm so glad that she accepts you for who you really are. Having someone with that much compassion and understanding is very rare nowadays. Kudos to her!
Lexxi
Lexxi, my wife is the most amazing person I know. Being in a similar situation as a TG person and all, you can appreciate and fully understand why I am am so lucky to have her in my life. I had no idea she had as much love for me as she does until I came out to her. I am going to share your post with her because it is the absolute truth. She may think I'm bias because it comes from me...and she may be right. But it's nice to hear it from others like yourself and I think she needs to know. Thanks again for your thoughts. Feel free to reach out to me here anytime!
Warm Regards,
Susan R🌷
Quote from: Susan R on May 19, 2019, 08:42:04 PM
There was only the one conservative Christian lady friend that we saved for last. My wife and I had procrastinated so long mainly because we already knew she would reject us. We had a good friendship with her that has lasted years. We knew that the relationship would end immediately so it was easy to postpone. Today, we decided we were going to bite the bullet. We told her and she did not respond well and we didn't really know what to expect from her from that point forward. She came back over this afternoon and had a complete change of heart. She said she loved me and did not want to lose the great friendship we had built over the years. My wife and I were blown away. I felt like crying it was so heart warming. She really cherished our relationship that much. I sort of felt bad for writing her off.
I have some good news and some bad news to share today. First with the bad news...Today was a life lesson. I realize people can come and go when you least expect them. My relationship with my Christian neighbor lady has again taken a step backwards but it looks like she "will leave the door open for (my dead name) to return." Unbelievable as it sounds, those are some of her exact words to my wife earlier this afternoon.
My wife had not heard from her since a few days after I came out. Before her sudden disappearance, I was outside working in our front yard garden. She walked our place and didn't even notice it was me and then I looked up at her and said, "Hi". It was the first time she had seen me a Susan since accepting me as such. She immediately stopped in her tracks and started to walk away with her little dog, Toto. I said, "Oh, I'm sorry I didn't mean to startle you." And she said, "I'm ok..I just didn't see you there" and she went on her merry way. It was a bit awkward but I actually thought nothing much of it and went back to my watering.
My wife and her went out to lunch the very next day and she said she was just surprised I looked so feminine and was at a loss for words. They talked about the struggles and difficulties of the transition and my wife thought she had more or less "adjusted" ok to the new situation.
Three days pass and no reply to any of the texts my wife sent her and she did not answer her door. My wife assumed she was gone but she usually is never gone overnight anywhere so something was off.
My wife went over earlier this evening and saw she was home but was very stand-off-ish with her. They sat down and talked and I guess in a nutshell, after having several days to think about it and who knows what influences, she has reversed course and will not be coming into our home anymore but my wife can visit her any time she wants. As mentioned above, she was nice enough to say "will leave the door open for the old me to return." Meaning if I ever change back to pre-HRT me Ill be invited back into her life. She told my wife she would support me but when my wife asked, "How can you support someone if you want nothing to do with them?" The neighbor lady had no answer.
What an amazing turn of events. Truthfully, I gave much more into that relationship than I ever got from it. Her loss. My wife, however, came home in tears and feels she would be doing me an injustice if she stayed friends with her in any capacity. I told my wife she had lost a friend but a friend with many conditions. I said it was up to her if she wanted to continue her friendship with her. I would not interfere in any way.
Now the good news...before this challenge with our neighbor lady happened we had spent 3-4 hours with my middle daughters entire family at our home. She was the first daughter I came out to but no one had officially met me as Susan. Today that all changed. They came over and we shared a big lunch together and I got to know them as my true self. It went so well. It was slightly different this visit than previous visits. My daughter, my grand daughter, my wife and I talked together like four girls instead of me chatting all afternoon with the hubby and my grandson. They were fine with the new paradigm but I'm sure they noticed the difference too. It will take some time for everyone to get used to the new role I fill within the family. I'll be going up to their place sometime in June so I may have an update then.
That's all for now,
Susan R🌷
Well hey there Susan. So sorry to hear about your stodgy old neighbor. I wouldn't worry too much about her if I were you. You need to focus on all the positive things in your life, and not let someone like her bring you down. However I do greatly respect what you said about not having a problem if your wife remains friends with her. That took a lot of class girl.
Happily your wife is continuing with her rock star ways and backing you up 100%. Hearing that made my heart swell up a little bit. (You can tell her I gave her major props for her decision by the way.)
I was also extremely happy to hear that you had so much fun hanging out with your daughter and her family. That must have taken a lot of weight off your shoulders, knowing that they were able to see the real you. :) :) :)
You didn't say whether or not your wife was relieved that it went so well, so I'm going to assume that she handled it like a trooper and had a carefree day.
I can't remember if I told you about my therapist situation or not, so I'll give you a quick recap in case I didn't. I discovered that there's only one WPATH recommended therapist in my area. I called her office and spoke with her receptionist. He told me that she wasn't taking new patients right now, but he'd set me up with one of their other clinicians. Once I told him that I wanted to be seen so I could get the HRT letter though, he told me I'd have to see the first therapist who isn't taking new patients.
He told me not to fear though. He gave me her personal email address and told me almost exactly what to say to make her change her mind and add me on as a patient. So I sent off the email and have yet to hear anything back. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she'll get back with me on Tuesday. If she can't take me, I'll have to drive a couple of hours away to see the next closest therapist who deals with trans women. I'll do whatever I have to do though to move my transition along. ;)
I'm really glad things are going so well for you!! I love reading your updates so please keep em' coming.
xoxo
Lexxi
Quote from: Lexxi on May 27, 2019, 12:47:21 AM
I was also extremely happy to hear that you had so much fun hanging out with your daughter and her family. That must have taken a lot of weight off your shoulders, knowing that they were able toI discovered that there's only one WPATH recommended therapist in my area. I called her office and spoke with her receptionist. He told me that she wasn't taking new patients right now, but he'd set me up with one of their other clinicians. Once I told him that I wanted to be seen so I could get the HRT letter though, he told me I'd have to see the first therapist who isn't taking new patients.
He told me not to fear though. He gave me her personal email address and told me almost exactly what to say to make her change her mind and add me on as a patient. So I sent off the email and have yet to hear anything back. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she'll get back with me on Tuesday. If she can't take me, I'll have to drive a couple of hours away to see the next closest therapist who deals with trans women. I'll do whatever I have to do though to move my transition along. ;)
This is great news Lexxi. I am so happy your able to move forward on this. Sometimes these things take a little more time than we think they should. Give it a little more time and I bet you'll hear back from her. If not, persistence is key. You've set your mind that this is what you want/need and no amount of red tape or busy schedules can stop you now!
The therapist I wanted to see for possible couples therapy early on in my transition was closed to new patients like yours. I needed this particular one because she would be covered under my healthcare plan and she was, imho, the best 'in network' therapist that dealt mainly with gender related issues. I was told by my Gender Health doc (my PCP doc too) that the "no new patients" is the default response when new people ask if there is any availability. My doc says if I want to see her she can get me in with her for sure. Fortunately, my wife and I worked all the details without her but it's there if we ever decide we need it.
My wife thanks you for your kind comments about her as I do. You're the best Lexxi. Keep me updated on how this goes for you too.
Susan R🌷
You're both quite welcome Susan, and thank you for the compliment. :)
I'll let you know probably about 3 minutes after I hear from the therapist. I don't know why, but I feel a certain kinship with you and want to keep you in the loop. It's probably because of all the good discussions we had after my introduction post. Whatever it is I'm happy about it.
I'll talk to you soon,
xoxo
Lexxi