Hi everyone!
I'm getting close to the one year mark for my hormone replacement therapy (May 4th, so a little under a month away) and I am really not satisfied with my breasts. I know everyone's journey is different and I did start transitioning a little late in life at 32, but I basically have no breasts at all even after nearly a full year. They're AA cup and not really noticeably different from when I started hormones aside from the aureolas and nipples being bigger.
For a while it seemed like I was growing breasts, but then I started losing weight (and body fat) and they shrank down to basically nothing. I imagine that my weight loss is at least partly responsible for me not getting satisfactory results from the hormones, but I don't know if I want to try gaining weight to see if that helps. (Especially considering that I have not met my weight loss goals yet...)
What I'm really curious about is if being in a state of dieting during this time while my body is changing might permanently prevent me from growing breasts even if I stop dieting later on. I'm less concerned about the present and more with possible long term consequences. What do you all think? Does anyone have any personal experience that relates to this situation?
Breasts are fat. Without fat, no breasts. Ask any woman, they'll tell you that when dieting, the breasts go first. It's normal. I recommend Häagen-Dazs therapy. :)
Yes, I've had the opposite experience. Before hrt I was a strict vegan, 6ft2in @149#. The whole vegan thing went to hell real quick because my body CRAVED fat and I gained 14 pounds in 8 months which have brought my size to a decent 34 A. (almost a handful). It all depends on you though as far as your current health. Are you overweight and do you NEED to diet?
Maybe try asking your doctor for a change in HRT medication.
I was previously taking my medication orally, and after 6months, nothing.
But then consulted with my doctor who prescibed patches instead.
That was over 8mnths ago, and now so pleased with the progress ive made, especially with breast development.
I would let your doctor know that your not happy with the growth you have so far and see what they can do for you. Hugs
Mariah
Quote from: Devlyn on April 07, 2019, 02:18:43 AM
Breasts are fat. Without fat, no breasts. Ask any woman, they'll tell you that when dieting, the breasts go first. It's normal. I recommend Häagen-Dazs therapy. :)
Thanks Devlyn, if this is normal I won't worry about it. :)
Quote from: Devlyn on April 07, 2019, 02:18:43 AM
Breasts are fat. Without fat, no breasts. Ask any woman, they'll tell you that when dieting, the breasts go first. It's normal. I recommend Häagen-Dazs therapy. :)
Devlyn can be very wise! Of course, foot long hotdogs and cheesy pizza can go a long way too!
Banana splits though are da bomb, the way to go! Not good for weight loss!
But... Fat seems to not be targetable, so it should just go anywhere and everywhere your body directs it to! Would not it be nice if you could at will move up perhaps a half a cup size and at the same time keep the waist the same size?
Chrissy
Well, at 12 months in you have a ways to go. A lot of girls come into their own 3 to 5 years. Enjoy the ride. 🙂
I had an A at I think 3 years in. I had a BA to provide a B/C.
Well, beasts are partly fat, yes, but they are also glandular tissue which develops during puberty in the presence of estradiol. Unfortunately, not everyone has the same potential for breast glandular tissue development. Much of that potential is determined by genetics. Part of it is determined by the presence of estrogen receptors in the epithelial cells beneath the areolas. Also, overly high levels of estrogen is thought to stunt breast growth. Studies have revealed that many trans women on HRT maintain high levels of testosterone. The presence of testosterone (DHT) will inhibit breast tissue growth by blocking the effect of estrogen. Breast tissue development in adolescent girls proceeds over five or more years, then it stops. Very little, if any, breast tissue development occurs in women once puberty is complete until pregnancy causes the swelling of milk ducts. Personally, most of my breast growth occurred on weak phyto estrogens. When I switched to bio-identical estradiol, growth slowed dramatically. I then opted for implants to reach my desired size. Most trans women seek breast augmentation to make up for disappointing breast development.
Quote from: Miss Clara on April 07, 2019, 09:54:10 PM
. Most trans women seek breast augmentation to make up for disappointing breast development.
Is this an absolute statement, with numbers/statistics to back it up? Or is this your guesstimate?
If it would be an absolut number, it would be probably good for every trans woman to look into breast augmentation pretty early during transition to avoid all the frustration with hoping that estrogen is doing the tick with their breasts!
Quote from: Dietlind on April 07, 2019, 10:12:06 PM
Is this an absolute statement, with numbers/statistics to back it up? Or is this your guesstimate?
If it would be an absolut number, it would be probably to avoid all the frustration with hoping that estrogen is doing the tick with their breasts!
"Moreover, because of anatomical differences in the male chest compared with the female chest, breast size may appear smaller than the actual objectively measured volume (6). Consequently, 60% to 70% of all transwomen seek additional breast augmentation besides CHT [cross-sex hormone treatment]"https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/103/2/532/4642966 (https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/103/2/532/4642966)
But, no, it would not be good for every trans woman to look into breast augmentation pretty early during transition. Trans women develop various amounts of breast tissue under cross-sex hormone treatment. It's best to wait until you know where you stand, and what is necessary and beneficial. Transition is a very unsettled period in the life of a trans woman. In my opinion, it's best to proceed with caution.
At 1 year I didn't have much either. Growth kind of comes in spurts. I'm not exactly satisfied with my size either, but things seem to be progressing. I just had my first bra fitting. I was surprised to hear B cup. I'm close to three years into my HRT. A month after getting my bra fitting done, the bra's are feeling tight again, either I'm growing or the bras are shrinking.
No need to be disappointed. One day you may just wake up and find that your disappointment was due to perception bias than it actually being true.
I think if I got rid of my belly, my breasts would be more noticeable.
just keep in mind if you are considering having augmentation done, that if you haven't waited 3 or so years for HRT to kick in you can end up with malformed breasts. I asked my endocrinologist specifically about it and he said you might be throwing thousands of dollars in the bin if you dont wait 3 years and see what your own body gives you and if they do keep growing with the silicon on top they can end up looking stretched out and odd shaped.
A good idea is to look at how big the breasts are of your female relatives, from what I have been told, usually you will end up with about a cup less than your mother or sisters. While the female's in my family have very large breasts, mine still look tiny (despite being a 14B) because I have a giant manly ribcage.
As for dieting, I include a large amount of healthy fats in it, including Flaxseed oil, avocados, walnuts and almonds, these things are supposedly good for breast development and they keep you fit too, HRT raises cholesterol so be careful.
I'm nearly 3 years on hormones, had great results everywhere except breasts. I start after turning 26.
I'm considering BA now. No point holding out for growth on me. It ain't happening :/
Quote from: Miss Kitty on April 08, 2019, 12:49:35 AM
A good idea is to look at how big the breasts are of your female relatives, from what I have been told, usually you will end up with about a cup less than your mother or sisters. While the female's in my family have very large breasts, mine still look tiny (despite being a 14B) because I have a giant manly ribcage.
This seems to be an urban legend us trans women want to believe in! There is no scientific evidence present that it is true!
I don't know what size 14B is?
Quote from: Rachel_Christina on April 08, 2019, 12:59:04 AM
I'm nearly 3 years on hormones, had great results everywhere except breasts. I start after turning 26.
I'm considering BA now. No point holding out for growth on me. It ain't happening :/
How do you know? Some natal girls wait and wait, and bam, almost over nice they have boobs!
Did you have an orchi? Natal girls seem not to have testes, and thus not much problems with trying to suppress testosterone! Removing those little guys might be a good idea, and see what happens, prior to putting silicone onto your rib cage!
Quote from: Dietlind on April 08, 2019, 08:47:16 AM
Did you have an orchi? Natal girls seem not to have testes, and thus not much problems with trying to suppress testosterone!
Have you had your serum testosterone tested? Suppressing testosterone appears to be a huge problem for trans women.
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/893280 (https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/893280)
It can take a while on HRT before breast tissue growth really gets rolling. My growth came mostly in the second year, particularly after Gender Confirmation Surgery (GCS). I made it to A 34A-B.
In the United States, only about 25-30% of all transgender people have a transition-related surgery, usually GCS. Breast augmentation and facial feminization surgery is not covered by insurance for many people, and must be paid for out of pocket, so the incidence of these treatments is lower. Detailed statistics are still hard to come by as there is not yet a standardized reporting system. (This may be a good thing in terms of individual safety.)
Quote from: Michelle_P on April 08, 2019, 09:39:33 AM
In the United States, only about 25-30% of all transgender people have a transition-related surgery, usually GCS.
I doubt that it's that high. There are 1.4 million self-identifying transgender people in the U.S. according to the Williams Institute. Twenty five percent would mean that 350,000 have had GCS. A U.S. Census Bureau study in 2010 concluded that only 89,000 transgender people (living men and women) had changed their gendered name and/or sex code (male to female/female to male). Certainly even fewer had not had undergone GCS. Although that number has greatly increased in the past 9 years, I doubt that it has reached 350 - 420,000 individuals.
The American Society of Plastic Surgeons reported that there were 1,759 male-to-female GCS operations in the U.S. in 2016, a 19% increase from 2015. If that trend line were linear (it's not of course) from 2010 to 2019, the number of GCS operations in the U.S. would total less than 15,000 MtF surgeries over the past 9 years, or about 1% of all transgender people.
My own experience tells me that more trans women seek BA than GCS. BA costs $4K - $6K, while MtF GCS costs $20K - $30K without insurance which is only slowly becoming available. My guess is the ratio is more like 10 BA surgeries for every GCS surgery.
Quote from: Miss Clara on April 08, 2019, 09:26:21 AM
Have you had your serum testosterone tested? Suppressing testosterone appears to be a huge problem for trans women.
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/893280 (https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/893280)
I don't have balls left!
Quote from: Miss Clara on April 08, 2019, 10:54:09 AM
I doubt that it's that high.
Correct! I misspoke. That's the portion of trans people who are MtF and medically transitioning, who pursue surgery. Most medical transitioning folks are just on HRT.
Breast augmentation and breast reduction, "top surgery' for FtM folks, are probably the most common among those who do pursue surgery. Statistics are really hard to find on this. Breast augmentation is not generally tracked as transition-related care, as it is available from a very large number of surgeons not associated with any transgender care programs.
Quote from: Dietlind on April 08, 2019, 08:47:16 AM
How do you know? Some natal girls wait and wait, and bam, almost over nice they have boobs!
Did you have an orchi? Natal girls seem not to have testes, and thus not much problems with trying to suppress testosterone! Removing those little guys might be a good idea, and see what happens, prior to putting silicone onto your rib cage!
I don't know. Not to be a Debbie downer but I was a b cup at six months and a c cup at 9 months and then as time went on they rounded out some. All this happened without spiro or an orchi. I was only on estrodile.
If after three years nothing has developed I think a BA should be reasonably safe at this point.
Quote from: Miss Clara on April 08, 2019, 10:54:09 AM
I doubt that it's that high. There are 1.4 million self-identifying transgender people in the U.S. according to the Williams Institute. Twenty five percent would mean that 350,000 have had GCS. A U.S. Census Bureau study in 2010 concluded that only 89,000 transgender people (living men and women) had changed their gendered name and/or sex code (male to female/female to male). Certainly even fewer had not had undergone GCS. Although that number has greatly increased in the past 9 years, I doubt that it has reached 350 - 420,000 individuals.
The American Society of Plastic Surgeons reported that there were 1,759 male-to-female GCS operations in the U.S. in 2016, a 19% increase from 2015. If that trend line were linear (it's not of course) from 2010 to 2019, the number of GCS operations in the U.S. would total less than 15,000 MtF surgeries over the past 9 years, or about 1% of all transgender people.
My own experience tells me that more trans women seek BA than GCS. BA costs $4K - $6K, while MtF GCS costs $20K - $30K without insurance which is only slowly becoming available. My guess is the ratio is more like 10 BA surgeries for every GCS surgery.
and that is what I mean, the fiances are a very strong gate keeper for US Trans women to have any surgery done! Unlike to those European women who have free electrolysis, speech therapy, surgeries and everything once they are diagnosed to be transgender. The famous ICD F61 code opens the door for them, but not for us!
Quote from: NatalieRene on April 08, 2019, 11:39:17 AM
If after three years nothing has developed I think a BA should be reasonably safe at this point.
I could agree o a 3 year time, but not to a one year one!
I do still experience breast growth, but it seems to just continue with the same speed I had long prior to HRT. I have no idea what I will end up with now that I had my orchi and have extra estrogen! So far I don't see feel any difference compared to before the orchi. The only thing I feel from that is not to have the fog in my head I used to have from spiro, and that I feel way more feminine than I ever have felt before! But I can't detect anything at the boob front! So I think the girls will continue to grow on their own speed, until some day I wake up in the morning and my nipples don't hurt anymore! This pain has become so much part of me over the last 5 or so years that I sure will miss it once I am free of pain! >:-)
Quote from: Dietlind on April 08, 2019, 11:49:24 AM
I could agree o a 3 year time, but not to a one year one!
I do still experience breast growth, but it seems to just continue with the same speed I had long prior to HRT. I have no idea what I will end up with now that I had my orchi and have extra estrogen! So far I don't see feel any difference compared to before the orchi. The only thing I feel from that is not to have the fog in my head I used to have from spiro, and that I feel way more feminine than I ever have felt before! But I can't detect anything at the boob front! So I think the girls will continue to grow on their own speed, until some day I wake up in the morning and my nipples don't hurt anymore! This pain has become so much part of me over the last 5 or so years that I sure will miss it once I am free of pain! >:-)
It's been three years for her hasn't it?
Oh and they will always hurt if you get struck there. In a sense they are sort of like getting kicked in the balls but not quite as bad. This is why woman tend to hold things in front of them.
Quote from: Dietlind on April 08, 2019, 11:13:53 AM
I don't have balls left!
Testosterone is also produced by the adrenal glands which serve as the primary source of T after GRS. In the presence of the enzyme 5-alpha reductase (5AR), free testosterone will convert to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) which is a powerful inhibitor of breast growth. 5AR is produced in the testes AND the prostate which you most likely still have. Has your doctor ruled out overactive adrenal production of testosterone as a possible cause for your lack of breast tissue development?
Quote from: Miss Clara on April 08, 2019, 12:28:12 PM
Testosterone is also produced by the adrenal glands which serve as the primary source of T after GRS. In the presence of the enzyme 5-alpha reductase (5AR), free testosterone will convert to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) which is a powerful inhibitor of breast growth. 5AR is produced in the testes AND the prostate which you most likely still have. Has your doctor ruled out overactive adrenal production of testosterone as a possible cause for your lack of breast tissue development?
I think you mistake me for the original poster. I am pretty happy with my still growing boobs. I am starting to slowly outgrow a 40 B cup!
The adrenal glans produce only very limited amounts of testosterone that has no real influence on most body functions once the testes are removed! DHEA and Androgenic Steroids
These hormones produced by the zona reticularis of the glans are weak male hormones. They are precursor hormones that are converted in the ovaries into female hormones (estrogens) and in the testes into male hormones (androgens). However, once the testes are removed, this conversion will not take place.
The prostate needs testosterone from the testes to not shrink down to become mostly not functional anymore (that is why an orchi is the last resort treatment to slow down prostate cancer).
In summary, once the balls or ovaries are gone, so are any meaningful amounts of testosterone or estrogen inside the human body!
And that is why we ladies who don't have balls need estrogen, but don't need any spiro anymore to block testosterone!
Quote from: Dietlind on April 08, 2019, 12:56:14 PM
The adrenal glans produce only very limited amounts of testosterone that has no real influence on most body functions once the testes are removed!
Of course, but testosterone levels vary among trans women as they do among natal women and men. My point is that if one is not experiencing any breast development after one year on estradiol, serum testosterone should be tested. One study that I referenced above reported that 75% of trans women had trouble suppressing testosterone using spironolactone. Yes, I mistook your comment for that of the OP. Sorry.
It takes time, in my case I have even on hormones for 15 years and finally I am size H
Quote from: Dietlind on April 08, 2019, 08:47:16 AM
How do you know? Some natal girls wait and wait, and bam, almost over nice they have boobs!
Did you have an orchi? Natal girls seem not to have testes, and thus not much problems with trying to suppress testosterone! Removing those little guys might be a good idea, and see what happens, prior to putting silicone onto your rib cage!
I know. It's just never gonna happen.
My testosterone is non existent.
I'm tired of waiting.
I just had another message rejecting me again for my requested BA :/
I'm sick an tiered of being rejected :(
Quote from: Rachel_Christina on April 08, 2019, 03:16:31 PM
I know. It's just never gonna happen.
My testosterone is non existent.
I'm tired of waiting.
I just had another message rejecting me again for my requested BA :/
I'm sick an tiered of being rejected :(
I don't know where you life, but here in Florida we have enough plastic surgeons that they are almost in a competition with each other to do breasts It seems that all those old women here want o have good looking boobs before the croak!
We have hardly anybody doing SRS!
I wish you good luck in finding some surgeon!
Thanks Dietlind, it's a pain but somethings got to turn up!
Somebody somewhere has gobbled up my information and added me to a statistical percentage ... I am not a statistic. I am who I am and I'll develop however I develop. BA is not and won't be in my future. I look down and see breasts - I'm happy. I'm not growing them for everyone else to see, they're for me. Well, ok, also a little of "so that women's tops fit a little better".
no judgement from me though, If someone needs BA to improve their mental well-being, go for it. We all have our own needs despite our similarities.
hiya, I would really recommend a big dose of patience. you're feeling 'it will never happen' after only one year, puberty takes a lot longer, about 7 years first time round? your body may be doing other things which are less visible, but all part of the process.
I do think some who've had substantial breast growth within the first year are not the average, most people one known to much longer. I obsessed about the lack of initial growth, it took (to me, at that time) forever, but it did happen, in its own time. remember taking oestrogen is not for the sole purpose of growing breasts, there are a myriad of changes and your body is busy at the moment. Ideally your testosterone should be suppressed, orally or by a gnrh analogue depot (best option) as testosterone will combat oestrogen, and it's generally reputed not to be a nie experience mentally.
BA after one year? you could damage your fledgling breasts, you've no idea what growth is to come. I personally wouldn't recommend it until year 6 (so, after 5 years on unchallenged hormone therapy (with suppressed T) more growth is often experienced after srs, and later changes in therapy ie from oral to gel can also simulate more growth.
A year is nothing, I'm not sure what you'd expect after such a short time. breasts are substantially made out of fat as has been commented, so any weight loss will reduce breast size, and that is just how it is for women. many people who have a larger cup size do so because they have more body fat, and some women who (for whatever reason) have very low body fat, have substantially smaller breasts.
Apart from breast growth, you're skin will be changing, your nails, hair, etc... it doesn't seem a good time to reduce your body's fuel intake, tight when you are asking it to try to do the biggest u-turn possible.
I'd say, take the pills, breathe, wait... those denying you the BA have your best interests at heart. in a few years you could have a perfectly nice rack without intervention 🙂 x
After one year I found out I had stabilized my testosterone levels to cis-female, and my Estradiol levels begins to rise up. So I feel my slowly build up.
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Quote from: Miss Clara on April 08, 2019, 01:42:21 PM
Of course, but testosterone levels vary among trans women as they do among natal women and men. My point is that if one is not experiencing any breast development after one year on estradiol, serum testosterone should be tested. One study that I referenced above reported that 75% of trans women had trouble suppressing testosterone using spironolactone. Yes, I mistook your comment for that of the OP. Sorry.
Spiro doesn't suppress T production, it simply blocks its action.. And has all sorts of issues.
But there is also zero reason to be taking spiro - an appropriate dose of E is all most people need.
Combination of Spironolactone and Estradiol patch sure suppresses my Testosterone total sendout was 20, and my Testosterone free was 3.2 pg/ml. It also stabilized my Potassium levels. So so far had been working for me.
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Quote from: Faith on April 09, 2019, 06:11:58 AM
Somebody somewhere has gobbled up my information and added me to a statistical percentage ... I am not a statistic. I am who I am and I'll develop however I develop. BA is not and won't be in my future. I look down and see breasts - I'm happy. I'm not growing them for everyone else to see, they're for me. Well, ok, also a little of "so that women's tops fit a little better".
no judgement from me though, If someone needs BA to improve their mental well-being, go for it. We all have our own needs despite our similarities.
See I would love to be like this, but for me nothing happened. They just got painful and that's about it.
I'm pretty much 3 years hormonally female. I don't they where meant to be!
Im having a BA in June and at that point I´ve been on HRT for 20 months. I have about b-cup breasts, but due to the wider rib cage, they don´t appear that big. That´s why I´ve decided BA. If I would have been born with a female body of this size, I would be perfectly happy with my breasts. Unfortunately, that is not the case.
My surgeon who did SRS last summer, would have liked to perform BA at the same time. At that point I was on HRT for 8 months. He didn´t see any problem of doing BA early on. And in the end, he was right. I should have done it at the same time and save myself from another anesthetics. But, I was still hoping for some sudden miracle.
But I´m approaching 2 years mark and that is generally thought to be the time, when major breast growth is done.
Quote from: Mendi on April 10, 2019, 01:43:32 AM
But I´m approaching 2 years mark and that is generally thought to be the time, when major breast growth is done.
You know, I've seen this spouted by trans women for years, but I can't find a single verifiable source for it - and it certainly goes against the science.
Oh, and here's a tip - I've never come across a plastic surgeon who didn't recommend unneeded procedures to trans women and a BA is easy money..
Quote from: PurplePelican on April 10, 2019, 03:24:32 PM
You know, I've seen this spouted by trans women for years, but I can't find a single verifiable source for it - and it certainly goes against the science.
Oh, and here's a tip - I've never come across a plastic surgeon who didn't recommend unneeded procedures to trans women and a BA is easy money..
You say it lady! They can make money only with cutting! They are not healers, they are the pimpers of the surgical profession! (instead of pimp my ride, it is, pimp my body!)
Yes of course it is easy money. But I can see, that my breasts are never going to be anything close to a cis woman. They are nice, but there are even men with bigger boobs than me...
And like I´ve said before, I just want this transition process to be over as quickly as possible. I don´t want to wait, and I havent waited.
8 months from HRT start to SRS and 10 months to ID change and done. Should have taken BA also at 8 month mark and be done with this. I don´t see anything fun about this transition half-way house.
Wow, I got a lot of really quality posts in this thread! Thanks for all the information people, I feel a lot better about how I'm progressing after reading everyone's experiences here.
Quote from: FridayJones on April 09, 2019, 12:44:42 PM
...Apart from breast growth, you're skin will be changing, your nails, hair, etc... it doesn't seem a good time to reduce your body's fuel intake, tight when you are asking it to try to do the biggest u-turn possible...
This is a very interesting point to make. Ever since I started on hormones I've felt ravenously hungry at times and totally incapable of controlling my appetite, snacking on practically anything I can get my hands on. But, I really, really, really want to lose weight and I'm so, so close to my lifelong goal of 150 pounds. I just need to lose another ten pounds to get there, but I can't seem to make any headway on it. So frustrating!
Right now my relationship with food and exercise is very disordered and my therapist even told me that I should be careful because I'm in danger of becoming full-blown anorexic. But, I look really good, better than I ever have in my life, and I couldn't stop dieting at this point even if I wanted to. I have to reach my goal and then I can relax my diet, not before.
When I begins my HRT one and half year ago my Therapist and Endocrine told me medical transition is a slow and tedious process. For some can see the changes quicker than others. That's why I signed from of consent to allow my Endocrine treat me and so far I am just happy with my progress.
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