when you were little girls and watched the activities of the girls cisgenders
Were there typical female activities that you would have liked to have done? (makeup, ballet, female artistic gymnastics, female swimming, sewing etc)
Not really. I envied the girls their bodies, but activities I did my own thing - a mix of both.
Quote from: AlexUABC on April 29, 2019, 01:52:04 PM
when you were little girls and watched the activities of the girls cisgenders
Were there typical female activities that you would have liked to have done? (makeup, ballet, female artistic gymnastics, female swimming, sewing etc)
I liked yoga & gymnastics and did both when I was young.
Playing Mothers & Fathers/ House was also fun
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When I was really young, I wanted to be a part of ballet class.
now I am learning Lindy Hop :)
Like Kelly, I envied girls their bodies, not their activities. I did learn to sew, from watching my mother when she was sewing, and I eventually asked her to teach me to knit.
I think I would have been a nerdy little girl no matter what. I recently got an impression of that girl as I was writing up a bio of myself for an astronomy presentation I am doing later this summer. As I wrote about how "she" got "her" first telescope at age seven, I suddenly got an impression of that nerdy little girl looking through her telescope and saving up her allowance for a better one. Yes, that was me!! I'd have been so cute!
So I very much think I would have done a lot of the same things as a girl that I did as a boy.
I wish that I would have learned makeup growing up like cis girls do. Middle school and high school wold have been the ideal time. As it turned out I had to learn it all at once the best I could as an adult.
I've buried so much I hardly remember. I know that I disliked most typical boy things, preferred the company of the girls (even though they didn't reciprocate). I did get my sister to start teaching me to crochet, sadly I let that go in pursuit of 'manly' things. Did I envy back then? I have no idea at this point.
I don't remember this too much. I remember really wanting a 'real' doll house, unlike the log cabin (which was advertised toward boys) I was given. I remember my sister having a real doll house and it being up in the attic (she had grown up) and me wanting it but not being able to say anything.
The most vivid activity I was envious of was shopping. It is one of the very first memories of dysphoria I have. My sister and family got to go shopping for dresses and I was sitting outside the dressing room feeling really jealous that I didn't get to shop for dresses and other women's clothing, too.
I always wanted to do the same things as the girls, dress, play, domestic skills, makeup, have babies, well, everything. Alas, with only 3 brothers, it was not possible. Mum saw the real me and had me help her cooking, sewing and cleaning. She had distorted and painful hands from arthritis, so really did need help, and my brothers were happy they didn't have to do 'girls' work. Mum told me she was so happy to pass on her skills to me as she felt it was as close to having a daughter as she could get. I love babies, so as a teenager I did lots of babysitting. My greatest envy, and regret, was the ability to bear children. When Mum passed she left me her jewellery and cook books.
Allie
I envy'ed the girls and their bodies and fashion. Growing up I always wanted to do ballet and be a dancer, cheerleader, model. I still want to be a bridal gown model. Maybe someday! ::) At 30 I don't know if I stand any chance in pulling it off now or not. :(
Lisa
Gymnastics were probably the only thing I expressed a like or preference for. Although my low muscle town made that harder. You need quite a bit of muscle strength for that.
I kinda just envied being able to express femininity so openly. I also would envy the role and body of any cis girl I would try to date.
I know that the first day of kindergarten the teachers made us split up to play. I wanted to go with the girls. I remember wanting be like certain girls while growing up and had girl as well as guy friends. In junior high, I was jealous of how they got to wear pretty dresses (70's), how their hair swayed back and forth as they walked, how they seemed so gracile. It was just their presence, there was something about it that mesmerized me.
Oh Yes! I loved skipping, playing house and tea sets and wished I could possess my own doll.
Later I wished I could learn make up at school.
My two main areas of envy were however that I simply wished to have been born a girl and to physically have a girls body.
Hugs
Pamela xx
I never envied the girls, I envied the guys, because i was supposed to be one and did not know how to do it. would have been way easier for me to be a girl!
I envied their bodies, their charm, their power, their status, all the courteousness that are given to them, their huge freedom and choice with clothes. But I don't think of a particular activity. However I preferred to be with girls, I have no interest in sports, cars and the casual boyish stuff except some gaming in my life although there are a lot of girls there now and more are always coming.
What an interesting question? I know that I envied their bodies as well. Of course, I envied their dress as well. One activity that I did envy is that girls seemed to develop friendships that were people oriented whereas boys developed friendships that we activity oriented. I think that carries on to when we became adults. Women are so much more relationship oriented.
Is THIS what Blanchard means by "target location error"? "Envy" is never a healthy thing are we indeed living vicariously (at least at first)? What about the cis male's historical attraction(s) to women how would one go about explaining THAT?
Is it really all about the hormone testosterone and/or the logical/natural(?) need to spread ones own "DNA"?
Am truly CLUELESS!
Ever and always.
Quote from: Chloe on April 30, 2019, 11:18:30 AM
Is THIS what Blanchard means by "target location error"? "Envy" is never a healthy thing are we indeed living vicariously (at least at first)? What about the cis male's historical attraction(s) to women how would one go about explaining THAT?
Is it really all about the hormone testosterone and/or the logical/natural(?) need to spread ones own "DNA"?
Am truly CLUELESS!
There might be something in that. When I was 13 I was at school camp a friend of mine whom I also had a crush on, offered me to wear her dress for the evening( it was a fancy dress evening)
I agreed for a laugh and it was great!
I dont think anybody knew that I wanted to be with her and also wanted to be her. I felt envious that she got to be a girl every day at school and I could only exist on the periphery.
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When I was in middle school I had started saving pictures out of store ads of girls and specific outfits I really wanted. Mom eventually found them and made me bin them.
I also started watching typically girly TV shows, I used to like watching The Saddle Club, Darcy's Wildlife, Outward Bound. My brother was big into the cartoon Gargoyles and I secretly wanted to be Lisa the female detective every time I got forced into watching Gargoyles.
Oddly enough, To this day my brother thinks that is how I got my female name. ;D
Lisa
Don't take this the wrong way... but I was envious that they got to play rounders, hockey, and netball... had I been born in America, versions of those would've been male sports... baseball, hockey, and basketball. I don't think it was so much the sport, but just the desire to have been accepted as one of the girls instead I felt the need to hide who I was at all costs... it created a lot of conflict inside me because I had lots of opportunities to do the things I wanted to do but had to hide.
For example, I love dancing, and as a child I had to go to dance classes with my uncle and auntie who are only a couple of years older than me. But because everyone used to tease my uncle for dancing and called him auntie instead of uncle, I felt that in order to hide who I was, I had to utterly reject dancing. It wasn't until I was in my 20s that I went to dance classes and eventually started teaching dance when I was a mature student at university. But I always wanted to be the one wearing the nice outfits and not the one doing the leading. I had a lot of problems trying to learn tango because of that and in the end had to give it up.
Quote from: Alice (nym) on April 30, 2019, 07:26:31 PM
But I always wanted to be the one wearing the nice outfits and not the one doing the leading.
OMG THIS ;) I hated every aspect of the male role in couples dancing, and the narrow box of acceptable moves for a man.
Yes there were. But my dad was extremely tolerant with me and I got to do a lot of them. When I was 8 I had pink sheets and a pink bedspread. I put up such a fuss about wanting them my dad gave in and bought them for me. Lol
Oh I forgot to add Brownies... I really wanted to go to Brownies like my sister when I was young. Eventually I got to go to Cubs but hated it... the boys were far too boisterous, bullying, and annoying.
No not really. I wanted to be a girl but wasn't jealous of their activities. I had few friends & did stuff I could do alone, fishing, cycling model making
I wished that I could join in just about everything the girls were doing. I don't think that it was any specific activity, except that I wished that I didn't have to try not to let my parents see me when I tried to make myself pretty.
I am non-binary, however I was quite envious of some of girl's activities, but not others. I liked sewing and cooking, but I also liked working on the car with my dad. I got teased and picked on for liking sewing and cooking, and playing with dolls (I had GI Joes and my sister had Barbies, and they reguarly had "get-togethers", lol). Sadly, I let peer pressure get to me and I began pretending to dislike these things so I wouldn't get picked on so much. I couldn't get out of cooking (my mother was insistant that I learn this skill) but I got out of learning more sewing, or continuing to play the flute (because, that was too girly and got me picked on too). In retrospect I wish I'd have told everyone to go **** themselves and continued doing what I enjoyed. It's taken me a lot of effort to go back and relearn some of these things, sewing in particular. I now do garment work and quilting in both fabric and leather, and I'm very proud of this! I also cook like no-one's business!
As I grew older and began puberty, and watched my afab peers changing as well, I grew rather envious of their developments. I wished I looked more like them, and less like a boy. I grew especially envious of my sister as she grew older because she was a tomboy and switched back and forth between "boy-mode" and "girl-mode" with seeming ease. An ability I wished I had.
^Oh gosh, that reminds me! I hate to admit it because I don't think that gender should in any way determine which instrument we play, but I darn well did gender instruments in my mind back in the day. I chose trumpet in beginning band, but instantly wished I could play clarinet or flute instead, as I saw them as girls' instruments. I think it was a large reason that clarinet would eventually be the second instrument I would pick up.
I didn't even think of it when making the first post here, but that most certainly was something I considered for girls that I was jealous of. It just seems silly in hindsight.
Silly or not I can relate. I wanted to be in the band in my elementary school, I ended up playing the clarinet for a short time but always wanted to learn to play the flute.
Lisa
I guess like a lot of people, for me it wasn't the activity as such but the girls and their clothes I envied. I remember desperately wanting to join the girls when they played sports at school, because of the sports kit they wore (short pleated skirt, Polo top). I used to fantasise that I'd come to school without my (boring) sports kit and have to find something in the lost property box, and all they had was girls stuff.
Wow, I wished I was allowed to be more expressive, more care free about my presentation. Girls are encouraged to experiment and are complimented. I watched girls experiment and I thought 'you didn't just do that', or 'how come no one is stopping you?'. The thought of what it would feel like made me ache, and then they just went on to try something else, just to see how that felt/looked and what compliments were voiced. They were discovering something deep within their minds and that of their group unfettered it seemed.
We had a weird Aunt Beverly. One Christmas she got my sister fancy satin/silk panties. I could have died from jealousy. I tried to hide my glances. My sister was only 12, and it seemed inappropriate on one level, but irresistible. I didn't really notice what she got me.
Oh ya, pretty party dresses. They would torment me inside. To go to a girl's party where everyone was in a pretty dress would have been unimaginably wonderful. I remember being spell bound at times, but aware of needing not to be seen vicariously locked on and lost to the world, by others.
Lauren
Well there is a couple of things.
An adult thing is baby showers and bachelorette party.
hop scotch. I wanted to do gymnastics but I was told no by my dad.
I would have liked ballet or gymnastics. I would have liked to learn about fixing makeup or my hair, how to be pretty. More than anything I just wanted to look like them.
And more than anything I wanted to not have to sit through another conversation about cars, wrestling or sports feeling both alone and ignorant. Hate that crap.
Bea
This might sound strange but I remember wishing I could jump rope with the girls, on the school playground. They just played differently and I liked that.
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When I was growing up the girls fashions and their bodies fascinated me, it was a bit overwhelming, like in the 70's when the girls wore high rise tight jeans and certain body parts were noticeable (camel toes). I was seriously envious so much so I had one installed, dreams do come true...
C -
Quote from: Bea1968 on May 08, 2019, 02:03:57 PM
I would have liked ballet or gymnastics. I would have liked to learn about fixing makeup or my hair, how to be pretty. More than anything I just wanted to look like them.
And more than anything I wanted to not have to sit through another conversation about cars, wrestling or sports feeling both alone and ignorant. Hate that crap.
Bea
Bea, Me too. ;D
I am still haunted by my obsession with wanting to do ballet and be a professional dancer. A dream I wish could have been mine.
Lisa
Quote from: Bea1968 on May 08, 2019, 02:03:57 PM
And more than anything I wanted to not have to sit through another conversation about cars, wrestling or sports feeling both alone and ignorant. Hate that crap.
Bea
100% agree with that... I have zero interest in cars... I learned to follow the local football team just so I had something to fall back on in male company. I don't watch the games, just read the headlines and skim through the articles in the paper, so I have enough information not to betray myself.
Quote from: Alice (nym) on May 08, 2019, 05:33:12 PM
100% agree with that... I have zero interest in cars... I learned to follow the local football team just so I had something to fall back on in male company. I don't watch the games, just read the headlines and skim through the articles in the paper, so I have enough information not to betray myself.
My mom is really into sports like football and basketball. I think between that and marching band, I came to kind of appreciate them. But I'm only attached to college sports, and my interest pretty much drops the instant the game is over ("My team lost? Oh well. It's just a sport."). I would never even think of participating in those "fantasy" things that people do.
Cars, though... God. I remember having a group of male friends I'd hang out with sometimes and when we were on the road all they would do is comment on aspects of other people's cars. Beyond the fact that I had no idea what they were talking about half of the time I was just thinking "OMG who cares?!". It's such a boring subject matter.
If a car has air conditioning, runs, and is safe, that's all that matters to me.
And some of us here still like to talk about cars. Cars and my knowledge about them made me to fit in with the guys, without the need to do the muscular stuff they did. I could advise them on tuning and similar things.
I never wanted to be a girl, I mostly was one with my body, I wanted to fit in with the guys, and it even worked for a while.
Our path to the final goal of being a woman are all different. I still can repair most of the stuff on my cars!
It's nice to see that I am not alone in how I feel. Thanks to all with their positive feedback.
Bea
I would watch the girls sit two and three together braiding one another's hair. It looked like it would be fun. That and skipping rope and pat a cake. Boys weren't allowed to do any of that, so I just watched.
I have often dreamed of being a female at birth and raised female.
Chrissy
I've always wanted (and still hold out hope) to be a wedding attendant or matron of honor. I always envied those girls who were able to participate in the bride's side of wedding excitement. Of course, I always wanted to be a bride - but now I'll settle for just being with the girls!
I should have been raised as a girl.
Then all the girl things would have been there for me.
But that was not to be.
I can make my life now though be much better in my correct gender situation.
Better late than never!
Chrissy
I remember the first day of Kindergarten. There was a girl, Jennifer who sat across from me as we all sat down "Indian style" on the carpet in a large circle. I remember she had long brown hair, and the cutest dress on. I remember wishing I could wear my hair long and pretty dresses too. But I wasn't allowed to. This was back in like 1980. I carried that envy with me for nearly 35 years, until I discovered what Transgender meant.
A week before I turned 40, I took the plunge, socially transitioned that day after months of debating. Figuring out what to call myself, what name would I like to be called for the rest of my life. What would I want to look like. Finally the prayers every night for God to allow me to wake up as a girl would finally come true. Later I begged Hera, and Frigga, any divine being that would listen to me (funny story about that). It took a couple of years for the physical effects to happen, but they did indeed, and I remember waking up one morning and I felt, right.
Now, I couldn't imagine going back to living that male lifestyle.
As a young boy, in the 70's, I used to socialize with girls. I remember spending time at school (kindergarden) chatting with a girl named Cécile (a girl's name in France) while other boys were playing. She must have been the first one hearing me say I would have preferred being born a girl. We then moved, and I had another girl as closest friend. Her dad and mom became friends with mine. One day, being in holiday, our moms were varnishing their nails while chatting sitting on the grass enjoying the sun. My friend asked her mom to do her toenails, and I was so envious. So I asked my mom to have mine done, and of course she said no, saying I was a boy, and boys don't paint there toes...
I started too at that age to go to the conservatory to learn music and to play the flute. One day, leaving after my lesson, I was longing a building when I heard someone playing the piano and a woman's voice saying "and one and two and three and four" and I looked through a large bay window who was bringing light to a large ballroom built underground. I was then watching over almost twenties little girls dressed in tights and tutu dancing (or trying to) the ballet. I stayed there mesmerized by the prettiness of the costume, the grace in the moves, and immediately wanted so badly to be one of them... Until an old cleaning lady saw me and screamed rushing at me waving her broom to stop peeping at the girls.
At some point, gymnastic ribbons had become the rage with girls who were playing with them at the playground, and I was so envious I asked mom for one. Again, the answer was it was girls who where playing with it, but I insisted and she ended buying me one, saying she doesn't want to hear me complain if other kids were laughing at me (and none of them did, but it was another seeds planted making me feel ashamed for wanting to be a girl).
Of course, lot of daydreaming watching girls in classroom, studying and envying their clothes, shoes, jewels, hairs, make-up (later), even their moves (I have a vivid memory of a girl sitting next to me taking a pen in hand, and being fascinated by the way she did it, moving her hand and fingers so lightly and graciously).
Stéphanie, XX