Some say that labels aren't important. I tend to think that they are in the sense that many of us (me included), want to feel that we belong. I know that in some areas of the transgender community there has been controversy about who is "trans enough" and whether transgender includes only those who choose to transition.
I have no desire to spark that debate here — everyone is entitled to their own point of view on this and many topics. I did want to share, though, that I just finished reading a book called "Yes, You Are Trans Enough" by Mia Violet. Even though, largely, it is another not too uncommon story of a mtf transition, I found it empowering because Mia embraces a wide circle of trans people and I felt very included in her definition of trans.
As long as my wife of over 40 years is alive I will not leave her to live as a woman, but I do consider myself transgender. I embrace my identity and support those who take steps to do what I am choosing not to do, and I know that for many the choice that I've made would not be tolerable. I am Nancy and I am trans enough!
Quote from: NancyBalik on May 21, 2019, 06:53:45 AM
Some say that labels aren't important. I tend to think that they are in the sense that many of us (me included), want to feel that we belong. I know that in some areas of the transgender community there has been controversy about who is "trans enough" and whether transgender includes only those who choose to transition.
I have no desire to spark that debate here — everyone is entitled to their own point of view on this and many topics. I did want to share, though, that I just finished reading a book called "Yes, You Are Trans Enough" by Mia Violet. Even though, largely, it is another not too uncommon story of a mtf transition, I found it empowering because Mia embraces a wide circle of trans people and I felt very included in her definition of trans.
As long as my wife of over 40 years is alive I will not leave her to live as a woman, but I do consider myself transgender. I embrace my identity and support those who take steps to do what I am choosing not to do, and I know that for many the choice that I've made would not be tolerable. I am Nancy and I am trans enough!
Indeed Nancy you are Trans Enough. Your reasons for not transitioning to "live as a woman" are yours and I am glad you feel as empowered as you do.
Take care
Liz
Lots of transgender people choose not to transition, for their own perfectly good reasons. A person is transgender if their gender identity is different from their sex assigned at birth. That's it. There are no requirements on what they should do about it.
Yes you are trans enough! Congratulations on staying married for 40 years, and for doing what it takes to maintain that marriage.
I just said yesterday that we do what we have to in order to be comfortable. For some, acknowledging that we're different is good enough. It's all about getting by, we get one shot at life, and we need to make the best of it. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
If you identify as other than your birth gender you are trans enough. The rest are just practicalities!
Allie
It's your gender that matters. Not your gear. Your soul is female so you are female.
Nancy
Of course you are trans. "Enough" doesn't enter the debate. There is no standard to reach.
I wish you happiness both now and in the future.
Hugs
Pamela
People can be whatever they want to be; this is what individual freedom and liberty is *all* about. In some countries you don't have those freedoms; I am grateful that I live in a country where I can still exercise these freedoms, and I'm grateful that you are too!
Without getting too political on that (I tend to get political even in my sleep though, so forgive me), I also believe that definitions and words matter. I tend to think many people are against cultural appropriation but it seems get a pass with identity or word appropriation. My question to you:
If you are not transitioning, why does it matter that you are labeled transgender?
Help me understand this because I don't understand it; I'm looking for edification... it seems analogous to someone calling themselves a painter who doesn't paint (action), a Muslim who doesn't worship Allah (belief), or a Senator who claims to be Native Indian but DNA belies that (identity).
I'm all for individualism and free thought, so I pray that you're not thinking that by questioning this that I'm trampling on your own Gender Identity... you do you! It's more a question of why versus the how (because I think I understand your motives for not transitioning) but why even feel the need then to label yourself transgender if you're not actually transitioning? Help me understand.
QuoteHelp me understand.
Guess for somebody transition means admit that they are not cis and live with that knowledge. Do we have exact definition of transition?
Hmmm. I don't need labels or rules, but I was trans long before being in transition. i am now.
People have many different paths and situations. It is a state of being. Regardless of how you live it.
Gina
V, At the risk of getting into the debate I did not want to get into in starting this thread, let me answer your question as succinctly as I can. Look at my avatar picture. That is me and that is the image I have of myself even though I am not transitioning and I am not able to put on my makeup and my wig and forms every day. I think of myself as female. My life transcends gender. You don't know me or how I live my life. I don't have to present female to society to know who I am. Your analogies are false. I am not like someone professing a faith who does not practice it, but I am not going to go into detail here about the "feminine" things I do to prove myself to you. Do you think that someone who is not trans stands to benefit in any way by claiming "trans-ness"? Gender dysphoria is not like a DNA test. If you have it, you know you have it. Unfortunately, given that I am in my 60's, I was in my 40's (and already married with kids) before I ever heard the term transgender. It took me a long time to figure out why I feel the way I do — but I can guarantee you, it is no ruse. Nancy
Quote from: NancyBalik on May 21, 2019, 06:53:45 AM
I have no desire to spark that debate here — everyone is entitled to their own point of view on this and many topics. I did want to share, though, that I just finished reading a book called "Yes, You Are Trans Enough" by Mia Violet. Even though, largely, it is another not too uncommon story of a mtf transition, I found it empowering because Mia embraces a wide circle of trans people and I felt very included in her definition of trans.
I finished read Mia's book not too long ago and can't say enough good things about it.
Got it as a kindle edition and it's the first time I ever highlighted and saved passages from a book I was reading.
The thing that struck me most was that despite our vastly different experiences and circumstances, a lot of her observations were spot on and relatable directly to me.
While I believe the title refers mostly to those who think that they aren't trans enough to transition (as it was what she was led to believe about herself) she did not exclude non transitioners from being transgender.
I can't recommend this book enough for anyone that might be thinking that they aren't trans enough.
Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
Quote from: Alice V on May 21, 2019, 11:27:41 AM
Do we have exact definition of transition?
Yes, we do:
tran·si·tion/tranˈziSH(ə)n,tranˈsiSH(ə)n/
noun
1.
the process or a period of changing from one state or condition to another.
"students in transition from one program to another"
synonyms: change, move, passage, transformation, conversion, adaptation, adjustment, alteration, changeover, metamorphosis
That's what I was saying in my post: that words and definitions matter.
I'm so glad that Susan's has the "While you were typing, a new post was made" alert. I was about to type a response and noticed you (The OP replied!)
Quote from: NancyBalik on May 21, 2019, 12:30:20 PM
V, At the risk of getting into the debate I did not want to get into in starting this thread, let me answer your question as succinctly as I can. Look at my avatar picture. That is me and that is the image I have of myself even though I am not transitioning and I am not able to put on my makeup and my wig and forms every day. I think of myself as female. My life transcends gender. You don't know me or how I live my life. I don't have to present female to society to know who I am. Your analogies are false. I am not like someone professing a faith who does not practice it, but I am not going to go into detail here about the "feminine" things I do to prove myself to you. Do you think that someone who is not trans stands to benefit in any way by claiming "trans-ness"? Gender dysphoria is not like a DNA test. If you have it, you know you have it. Unfortunately, given that I am in my 60's, I was in my 40's (and already married with kids) before I ever heard the term transgender. It took me a long time to figure out why I feel the way I do — but I can guarantee you, it is no ruse. Nancy
You're on the defensive already because I never in my post claimed it was a ruse.; I'm extremely sorry you took it that way. You're right... doctors can't exactly simply take your blood and prove your GD; I honestly believe you are a dysphoric person that, due to life circumstance (and we all know there's a million circumstances that life tosses our way), that you cannot transition. I was asking why, if you're not transitioning, is it important to you to call yourself transgender at all?
You explained very well that your identity is legitimate, but I still feel as though you didn't explain why calling yourself "transgender" is important to you?
You said yourself in your own words:
Quote from: NancyBalik on May 21, 2019, 06:53:45 AM
Some say that labels aren't important. I tend to think that they are
We agree thus far! Labels (and by extension, like I said in my post, definitions and words)
are important.
The part I don't understand is why it's important to you to be labeled transgender?
I don't understand it because, to me, I don't really care if people think of me as transgender or not... that's all. So I was wondering why it's
important to you?
I promise I wasn't attacking you or trying to dismiss your identity. Thanks for replying!
QuoteYes, we do:
tran·si·tion
/tranˈziSH(ə)n,tranˈsiSH(ə)n/
noun
1.
the process or a period of changing from one state or condition to another.
"students in transition from one program to another"
synonyms: change, move, passage, transformation, conversion, adaptation, adjustment, alteration, changeover, metamorphosis
That's what I was saying in my post: that words and definitions matter.
Let's play this game. According to etymology, "cis" means "on this side" and "trans" means "on the other side". Can you describe definition for cis and transgenders? Who will decide which "side" is nearest and which is "beyond" of this? It pointless. Logically, cisgenders are those who identify themselves with sex they was born in (some kind of starting point), and transgenders are not. In ultimative meaning it can be interpreted as "opposite", so, will you exclude all specter from this term? I think it would be rude. So, when the transition happens then? Just accepting the fact that person isn't "cis" can be lifechanging. Does transition happens?
Quote from: Alice V on May 21, 2019, 01:41:40 PMCan you describe definition for cis and transgenders?
I'll apply the same level of criteria:
cis·gen·der/sisˈjendər/
adjective
denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender corresponds with their birth sex.
trans·gen·der/transˈjendər,tranzˈjendər/
adjective
adjective: transgender; adjective: transgendered
denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex.
These I would agree with too. My question to the OP wasn't how they define these words, or trying to argue that their dysphoria wasn't legitimate; it was "
If you are not transitioning, why does it matter that you are labeled transgender?"
Quote from: Alice V on May 21, 2019, 01:41:40 PMDoes transition happens?
If transition never takes place, what is the point of the label? See my curiosity? If you're not painting, why the need to be called a painter? See why I don't understand it?
I personally don't care whether people actually call me transgender or not but it seems OP seems to care that they are labeled as transgender and therein lies my curiosity about it. I'm scratching my head over this one.
V: Why is it important to think of myself as transgender?
1) Much of my life I have felt like I did not fit in. I think it is human nature to want to belong. I want to feel accepted for who I believe I am by those who I believe are like me and have shared similar life experiences.
2) After many years of uncertainty and self-examination, I have finally come to an understanding of why I feel the way I do about my body and certain other aspects of my life and believe it is because I am transgender.
3) it is important to me to have a way to describe myself to me. If I am not a man, and I am not exactly a woman, what am I?
Yes— I am defensive about who I am. My guess is that (unless you are a rather unusual person) you may be defensive about your identity as well. It is, as you might be able to relate to, an area where I've experienced considerable wounding. I really thought that the original post would generate support (which it largely has, actually, and I greatly appreciate), not a challenge— but hopefully now I've answered your question. (Just to clarify— this isn't about "others"calling me transgender, because I am in the closet — other than being accepted in places like this forum. It is about MY OWN identity.) Nancy
By definition, Transgender and Transition are different things. I have always been transgender, but circumstances prevented me from transitioning. It was important for me to identify my condition, so I could learn more about it, and satisfy a basic need for identification. I knew I wasn't male, and not female either, which put me at odds with the binary world I lived in. Realising I was transgender settled a great deal of uncertainty as I then knew where I fit in, that there were others lke me, and there was a path for me to follow. This allowed me to manage my existence until circumstances changed and I could start to transition.
For me, and I strongly suspect Nancy and most others here, this is why I needed to have an identity, even before I had the opportunity to do anything about it.
Allie
Artist is to transgender as painter is to transitioner.
Someone asked a similar question to me recently when talking about whether a transition is ever "done". This is another one of my peeves.
It's about identity and trans people that have not or will not transition, have already made a significant transition in the understanding of themselves. That may be the biggest transition of all.
Quote from: NancyBalik on May 21, 2019, 03:55:07 PM
V: Why is it important to think of myself as transgender?
1) Much of my life I have felt like I did not fit in. I think it is human nature to want to belong. I want to feel accepted for who I believe I am by those who I believe are like me and have shared similar life experiences.
2) After many years of uncertainty and self-examination, I have finally come to an understanding of why I feel the way I do about my body and certain other aspects of my life and believe it is because I am transgender.
3) it is important to me to have a way to describe myself to me. If I am not a man, and I am not exactly a woman, what am I?
I think the first reason is the primary reason... group acceptance. You're in the right place :)
On the third; as I said... you're free to identify as you feel; that's the beauty of liberty!
Yes, you answered my question, thank you :)
Quote from: NancyBalik on May 21, 2019, 03:55:07 PMYes— I am defensive about who I am. My guess is that (unless you are a rather unusual person) you may be defensive about your identity as well.
I'm sorry you're defensive... I can't pretend to not know why because I realize there's still lots of misunderstanding and cruelty toward us in the world. It's getting better; trans people are still not on the level of other previously oppressed minorities but civil rights isn't a battle won overnight.
No, I'm not defensive about who I am at all (stated in another thread I don't wear it on my sleeve, but am proud to be a transgender woman), but I definitely am rather unusual, aye ya got me there LoL
I have experienced gender dysphoria for decades now, having severe anxiety problems has ensured I have never transitioned. I don't know if I am trans, or trans enough, I just look forward to a day when I can go on with my life, away from most people, in a way that alleviates the GD.
For the majority of my waking hours, I live out being who I want to be in virtual worlds, if it were possible at this moment, I would forever escape in them and never look back. Three decades, have been spent, living in a fantasy world where I am safe, and female. Does this make me virtual trans ;D How many hours of game play, do you need to play a day as the opposite gender, to be considered VTrans?
I just keep hoping, that technology progresses far enough in my lifetime, where I can spend most of my time, in a more detailed fantasy world.
I would say "transgender" denotes a psychological state relating to gender identity, dysphoria, etc.. How someone handles that state *may* involve a medical or social transition, or it may not, depending on a lot of different circumstances. Would someone consider a celibate person who desires partners of the same sex anything other than gay because they did not act on those desires?
A transgender person does not have to transition to be transgender. Transgender is a state of mind, not a series of actions. I feel that if you have found a way to come to terms with yourself and wish to make sacrifices in your life for the sake of others, that is your choice. Just as a caution however, those people you are doing this for may eventually figure out that the whole "normal" facade that is being used as a front is a lie and may be suddenly very angry at you.
You do not have to be a member of MENSA to be a genius. You do, however, need to be a genius to become a member of MENSA. Just because you don't do something does not invalidate your right to do so. Same for you. You do not have to transition to be transgender. It is highly recommended to be transgender to transition however.
Ricki
Quote from: Allie Jayne on May 21, 2019, 03:59:21 PM
By definition, Transgender and Transition are different things. I have always been transgender, but circumstances prevented me from transitioning. It was important for me to identify my condition, so I could learn more about it, and satify a basic need for identification. I knew I wasn't male, and not female either, which put me at odds with the binary world I lived in. Realising I was transgender settled a great deal of uncertainty as I then knew where I fit in, that there were others lke me, and there was a path for me to follow. This allowed me to manage my existence until circumstances changed and I could start to transition.
Allie
This is an accurate and well expressed summary. This describes my history perfectly. Thank you Allie.
Hugs
Pamela xx
My pleasure Pamela! There are some advantages to analysing my situation for over 60 years!
Allie
To the OP Nancy who said I'm either a strange person or I possibly had some hangups about my own identity, here's my own take on my "identity" and how it relates to this thread topic:
I was a biological man suffering with Gender Dysphoria for most of their life.
I am currently a biological man who, due to transitioning, no longer suffers with Gender Dysphoria (I was "cured" essentially) whom society sees as a transgender woman now.
^ I'm comfy with this because I harbor 0 internalized transphobia, and I realize that my own view is far from common in how other transgender people would characterize themselves... hence, I'm a pretty strange person LoL.
It's funny because some transgender and cisgender people alike would call me not legitimately transgender because I still have my original plumbing. But even with that dismissal tossed at my feet every now and then, do I feel that I am "Trans Enough?" My answer is: I don't care.
To each their own how they dictate reality I guess :)
Quote from: Ⓥ on May 22, 2019, 04:40:51 PM
To the OP Nancy who said I'm either a strange person or I possibly had some hangups about my own identity, here's my own take on my "identity" and how it relates to this thread topic:
I was a biological man suffering with Gender Dysphoria for most of their life.
I am currently a biological man who, due to transitioning, no longer suffers with Gender Dysphoria (I was "cured" essentially) whom society sees as a transgender woman now.
^ I'm comfy with this because I harbor 0 internalized transphobia, and I realize that my own view is far from common in how other transgender people would characterize themselves... hence, I'm a pretty strange person LoL.
It's funny because some transgender and cisgender people alike would call me not legitimately transgender because I still have my original plumbing. But even with that dismissal tossed at my feet every now and then, do I feel that I am "Trans Enough?" My answer is: I don't care.
To each their own how they dictate reality I guess :)
I like that outlook. I sought (and found) femininity, not womanhood.
How I always explained it to people that ask "am I trans enough?" I answer with "If you have any doubts about your gender, then you are transgender. Period."
I never even heard the phrase "am I trans enough?" until I was on tumblr (in the good ol' days when it was still NSFW), and someone asked that question. I was shocked, having never heard it before then.
My partner is non-transitioning due to extenuating circumstances, yet he is as transgender as I am. (I'm a FTM and currently transitioning.) I treat him like my boyfriend, refer to him as he/him/his under most circumstances, and to me, he's just a long-haired man. YUM, I LOVE men with long hair! ^-^ When his time and energy allows it, he comes with me to transgender-related events, he attends the local transmasculine support group and trans adult support group, he mostly acts male when he's not at work or around family, he's my guy. <3
If you have any questions about your gender. You are transgender. Period. I stand by that statement.
Ⓥ brought up some very interesting thoughts on the subject, ones I've never thought of before. This is a very interesting discussion.
Ryuichi