here is a list of what I want to achieve.
http://androgyne.weebly.com/my-androgyne-agenda.html
whaddyathink?
yeah, just took me to a sign in page
put the wrong link on, fixed now.
Not bad, to the degree it focuses on your actions, you can make it real
I applaud your mission statement. :icon_biggrin: Well done!
-Emerald :icon_mrgreen:
I was worried some people may think it too conciliatory.
Quote from: Pica Pica on January 13, 2008, 08:47:47 PM
I was worried some people may think it too conciliatory.
Androgynes are natural peacekeepers and mediators, salt of the Earth.
Emerald :icon_mrgreen:
"I am an Androgyne. I am not Cisgendered. I am not Crossgendered. I am not Bigendered.
Not a Man, not a Woman - something else entirely... something beyond and before the creation of the binary genders.
'Androgyne' is my intrinsic psychological gender identity, the state of being unaffected by the division of gender."
God you're quotable.
Quote from: Pica Pica on January 13, 2008, 09:55:42 PM
God you're quotable.
It's yours for the taking Pica Pica.
Separate the wheat from the chaff as you see fit and make use of it as you will.
Oh... and please don't call me "God" again, I'm not exactly dictating a Bible over here! :icon_wink:
I am on a wonderful journey of discovery, just as you are.
Verily, verily even.
Bless you for blessing me.
-Emerald :icon_mrgreen:
You can call me god if you like.
Dennis
okay, dennis is god
god surfs? That makes sense.
dennis doesn't surf, he's just holding that board. dennis goes to the beach to walk on the water (or to turn it all into wine).
I live about half the time in the Sonoma/Napa area so wine I got - anymore bottled water is more expensive, perhaps a modern jebus will turn wine into Aquafina. And I know, its not really a surf board, its a boogie board. But after two solid weeks of cold rain, they got warm sun, no wind, no rain for Mavericks, so I thought that qualified as an act of god.
Quote from: Pica Pica on January 13, 2008, 08:47:47 PM
I was worried some people may think it too conciliatory.
I thought it was succinct and got right to the point about attaining our goals as androgyne persons.
Quote from: Dennis on January 14, 2008, 12:59:02 AM
You can call me god if you like.
Dennis
OK! Maybe you should dye your beard white though ;) ;D
y2g
me like too.
You are an inspiration
or
is it pronounced perspiration?
Pica
You bring up the most thought-provoking topics! I find you to be a brave, dedicated, and caring individual, and your Agenda confirms it.
Methinks, probably it is not enough to declare one's androgyneity, one can proceed to express what that means and what one hopes to achieve by expressing it. Then communicate that list to one's peers. So it's going on my to-do list (along with further consideration of my presentation).
What an example you set!
Thanks,
Simone
Pica, I've seen you on here for a while, you seem like you are really coming into your own and discovering yourself. I think it's great and I think you can accomplish these things if you put your mind to it :) Meghan
It's nice to have some goals isn't it?
1 - publish a novel
2 - accept self
;D
# 2 is a lot easier than #1.
not with my talent ( ??? )
well accepting yourself only requires you. Publishing has more gatekeepers than SRS.
Quote from: Pica Pica on January 14, 2008, 07:20:03 PM
not with my talent ( ??? )
Stop sniveling and get back to the novel writing! >:(
Having a bit of bother with that. I have changed inordinately since starting this novel I'm on, and since the novel I finished. Makes it hard to remember what I wanted to say.
Ever since I read your agenda, Pica Pica, I have been having an ongoing discussion with myself about the first three items on your agenda. The way I read them and in my words (i.e., I've probably misunderstood you): How does one map gender and where do I fit on the map. Let me set down some of my internal conversation and if no one cares to read, that's OK. It is still valuable to me to set down these ideas I never talk or write about.
Never, from earliest memories to this moment, have I felt authentically male. I worry I will be revealed as a fraud. At the same time, my closest friends have been female and I want to be treated as a friend, not as the OTHER. Among my most fear-filled moments was when my first wife was pregnant with our son.
I'll only say that he is an adult now and something of an enigma. After the divorce, I've learned from my children that my first wife warned him against turning out like me, which she declared was a distinct possibility. She told them she could not respect a man who carried a purse.
I adopted the borsella (Italian for the male version of a purse) when I was consulting in that country during the 1970s. My purse has morphed into a fanny pack over the years because I am less likely to leave it behind (at restaurants, for instance). Fanny pack or borsello, it still means I usually know where my keys, license, passport, etc. are.
Calling it a purse, scandalizes my wife and daughter. The daughter was also scandalized recently when we walked into a restaurant with my wife's purse slung over my arm (she wasn't feeling well).
On the other hand, it was I who felt hurt when, at the mall, the two announced they were going bra shopping, so I should go look at men's clothing, or something. And it is I who beams when the waitress addresses us as "Ladies" or when I am called Mrs. on the telephone.
When I'd first met this woman who is my wife, I told her she needn't worry I would seduce her because I really wanted to have someone to share ideas and activities with. Her response was "Suppose I seduce you?" She is still my best friend. I cannot imagine spending a night out with the guys. I love so many aspects of roles that are still considered feminine.
I am fascinated by these tiny breasts that finasteride is growing on my chest. I wish I could transition to female and be accepted as one. But I fear I would still be an outsider, afraid of being found out as an imposter. Once again, I've ended with no answer, but the hour is late, I need to go to bed, and so will close here somewhere in terra incognita.
Good night,
Simone
Quote from: Renate on January 15, 2008, 10:28:57 PM
I was never a real male, it was really just filling a role. It wasn't arduous, but it wasn't fun.
So then comes the question: Will being a woman just be another role, possibly one even harder to play?
This sounds very familiar: I've had two major epiphanies, one for each of these.
The first one happened about twenty years ago during my time in the military, when it dawned on me that there was no way I could make myself a 'real man' -- and that there were no good reasons why I ought to continue the attempt to do so. That realisation helped a lot, even if I went on thinking of myself as a man. Over time that last part changed, as it dawned on me that most boys don't have persistent daydreams about changing into girls, and other assorted stuff like that.
The second epiphany came last summer. By that time I'd already admitted to myself that I have some degree of GID, not just a weaker-than-average gender identity. This second realisation was that I really wouldn't be more comfortable adapting to a female social role. Sure, it's clear that somehow my brain expects to live in a physically female body, but the time to socialise as a girl is long past. By now it's quite as impossible for me to be a 'woman' as it is to be a 'man': I am what I've become and I pretty much like it, except for situations where I have to choose between the boys and the girls. In terms of social gender, I'm right in the androgyne camp.
Now the remaining question is what to do with all this. How much work is needed for the conflict between my body and body image? Will this affect my outward social role? In essence, a remix of Pica's first two points.
Nfr
Quote from: Simone Louise on January 15, 2008, 10:17:53 PM
Ever since I read your agenda, Pica Pica, I have been having an ongoing discussion with myself about the first three items on your agenda. The way I read them and in my words (i.e., I've probably misunderstood you): How does one map gender and where do I fit on the map.
.....and so will close here somewhere in terra incognita.
So on the agenda, bit one is to see what is this township called androgyne? What does it look like inside? Does it have a decent pub? All that - is it more than a lack of full identification with either sex or is it more? Is it representative of something else? Are there things androgynes share, things androgynes are? When does someone become or not become androgyne?
Number 2 is about where on the map this township is. How much does androgyne show? Does it show at all? How much does this difference inside me show on the world outside me?
Number 3 is to confirm that this place exists at all and not a figmant of my sometimes too busy imagination.
The big wish is to no longer be in terra-incognita, to claim the land as our own and invite people to join.
Quote from: Pica Pica on January 16, 2008, 07:42:20 AM
So on the agenda, bit one is to see what is this township called androgyne? What does it look like inside? Does it have a decent pub? All that - is it more than a lack of full identification with either sex or is it more? Is it representative of something else? Are there things androgynes share, things androgynes are?
I sure hope it's got a nice pub! With a really good music session in the corner. That's where I'll be ;D
I know for sure I'm not male. After much soul searching and RLT, I also realized I'm not female either. After about a dozen years thinking of myself as neither gender, I discovered this forum and all you wonderful folks here. I still don't really know for sure what I am, however the term androgyne resonates with me.
QuoteWhen does someone become or not become androgyne?
When they send their membership dues to y2g, PO Box...... >:D
QuoteNumber 3 is to confirm that this place exists at all and not a figmant of my sometimes too busy imagination.
I think it exists. Either that, or there's a few of us out here with very active imaginations. ;)
y2g
Quote from: y2gender on January 16, 2008, 09:18:25 AM
QuoteNumber 3 is to confirm that this place exists at all and not a figmant of my sometimes too busy imagination.
I think it exists. Either that, or there's a few of us out here with very active imaginations. ;)
y2g
The fact that the condition may not exist did occur to me too, but when I tried to think of myself in any other way, I become insecure and scared kind of.
What if some jerk in a tweed jacket decides that we are not real? They can never convince me otherwise now.
It doesn't make sense that we connect the way we do if we aren't what we believe ourselves to be. There too much alike between us for us to be a bunch of misguided people who happened to connect on a Transgender support site.
Quote from: Rebis on January 16, 2008, 12:28:41 PM
The fact that the condition may not exist did occur to me too, but when I tried to think of myself in any other way, I become insecure and scared kind of.
What if some jerk in a tweed jacket decides that we are not real? They can never convince me otherwise now.
It doesn't make sense that we connect the way we do if we aren't what we believe ourselves to be. There too much alike between us for us to be a bunch of misguided people who happened to connect on a Transgender support site.
It is my nature to question everything. I have often questioned if I am who/what I think I am. On an intellectual level, a plausible case could be made for either answer, whether or not we exist. On a feeling level, which is where the true answer has to be for me, I know who I am. Neither male or female.
At least for today... I can't say for sure what my answer will be next year... or even tomorrow :P
y2g
It certainly is true, but no less discouraging, to think that transition would have been easier in some respects when I was 13 or 14, standing in the drugstore day after day, reading about Christine Jorgenson, but being too scared to buy the book for fear someone would know what I was thinking. I cannot imagine how different life would have been had I acted then. I, too, have had frequent and continuing dreams of becoming female in body.
I missed the military experience (well, no, I don't miss it), but my first experience as a college student was one continuing crisis (3 times asked to leave; 3 times talking my way back in). I remember making a mental note never to tell anyone that these were the best years of my life. My grades were wildly inconsistent; the last semester of engineering school my average was 0.5 (A = 4.0), and the following semester, majoring in philosophy, 3.5. Then the staff told me I'd misunderstood the degree requirements, and that they would not allow me to major in a study of communications among people and between people and machines, and I was right back in trouble.
I sought counseling which only told me that my inconsistencies were the result of conflicts with parents (which reminded me of my mother's reaction to my grades: "How could you do this to me?" If only I'd known about ADD then). Then that final term, trying to squeeze the second year of Japanese into an 8-week summer program, and earning a D for my efforts should have marked the fourth and final time kicked out. I couldn't believe it when I noticed my name in the newspaper among the local students graduating.
Then came six months looking for work. I was so grateful my father was able to know I had a job before he died. No way was I going to look for gender counseling. I still don't trust counseling, and surely have revealed more of me and gender to you than to anyone ever. You all have made this a comfortable place to be.
I, too, am prone to question and analyze--particularly my own words. I find it nearly impossible to know if I am telling the whole truth. On the other hand, I try to stop somewhere short of feeling like a motorcar spinning my wheels on ice. Still, it takes a very long time to write a posting (I don't think I could handle the chat room). If there is reincarnation, I know I am here to learn humility.
No, I am not, as my wife once (and may still) supposed, depressed. There is so much to learn and master in life that each day is a new challenge and opportunity. I love life. And I have these breastlets that grow and change, albeit almost imperceptibly, day by day.
Here's to our pub and community,
Simone
A town called androgyne has a fantastic pub, with a choice of seven real ales. You should go to the amdram theatre, the everyone gets cast for the parts they would be best at, regardless of gender - makes all those gender bending Shakespeare plays a little confusing, but everyone has a good time.