Transgender people have right to be recognised in legally acquired gender, court hears
For Women Scotland is challenging ruling extending definition of 'woman' to transgender women with GRC
Link to Full Article (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/nov/27/transgender-people-have-right-to-be-recognised-in-legally-acquired-gender-court-hears)
The Guardian - Libby Brooks, Scotland correspondent
Wed 27 Nov 2024 14.42 EST
Transgender people have "a fundamental right" to be recognised in their legally acquired gender, the supreme court has heard in a case brought by Scottish campaigners to resolve how women are defined in law.
For Women Scotland is challenging a prior ruling by the court of session in Edinburgh, which found that Scottish government guidance extending the definition of "woman" to transgender women with a gender recognition certificate (GRC) was lawful.
Ruth Crawford KC, responding on behalf of Scottish ministers on the second day of submissions, said that the Gender Recognition Act 2004 was clear that a GRC changes sex "for all purposes". Someone with a GRC is entitled to legal protections "just as much as others enjoy those protections who are recorded as a woman at birth", she said.
Therefore the legislation created "a fundamental right and a human right to be recognised in one's acquired gender".
Also speaking for Scottish ministers, Lesley Irvine highlighted the "onerous conditions" which have to be met to obtain a GRC, including a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria and proof of living in the preferred gender for two years. She said that it amounted to a "fundamental change of status until death".
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Yay, Scotland! :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap:
Quote"onerous conditions" which have to be met to obtain a GRC, including a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria and proof of living in the preferred gender for two years. She said that it amounted to a "fundamental change of status until death".
^^ this - this is what is often not reported or overlooked in all this debacle with radical groups saying 'men with grc's' are accessing services.. by the time you have jumped through all the hoops and gatekeeping, gotten the many, many documents of proof of change of status and signed an oath that you will live in this gender for the rest of your life - then you get your GRC,
if they decide you worthy... My GRC is numbered in the 6000's.. they are, I believe, numbered sequentially and so, that means less than 7000 people in the UK, 0.01% or only 1 in 10,000 own one of these... People need to get a grip on the realities here.. This is not drag artists reading storytime, or convicted criminals deciding on the spur of the moment to mess around and claim another gender - this is people who are recovering from a truly horrible existence and much, much trauma.
Quote from: Lori Dee on November 27, 2024, 09:52:57 PMAlso speaking for Scottish ministers, Lesley Irvine highlighted the "onerous conditions" which have to be met to obtain a GRC, including a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria and proof of living in the preferred gender for two years. She said that it amounted to a "fundamental change of status until death".[/color]
I have to admit this makes me a little bit squirmy, and to a lesser extent the post above. Being yourself should not require such "onerous conditions" just to live. The very nature of those words are not a good thing. And it's kind of advocating such degrees of adherence and gatekeeping, to be able to be allowed to be yourself. This feels like making genuine people walk through hell just to make bad people burn in the fires of it. Which feels... wrong. To me, at least.
I do know Scotland is more forward thinking, as far as UK countries go. But I'm not sure using the hoops people have to jump through as a justification of why they should be celebrated for jumping through them... I'm not sure that's a good thing.
I totally get what you are saying on this.
I read it a bit differently, but I don't know the political climate over yonder like y'all do.
I read it as the government said this must be done, so we did it, and now you want to say it didn't matter? We were born this way, but the government decided that we had to do things a certain way to be recognized and accepted. Now you want to take it away?
No, Lori, this defence of trans people is being made FROM the viewpoint of the Scottish Government. Not against it. "For Women" is your everyday JK Rowling, anti-trans hatemongers. The case was brought by these anti-trans people, but this viewpoint is from the defence of the government, not against it. As I understand it. Ruth Crawford is representing the views of the government, not the people trying to say women aren't women.
Which, sadly, is something I feel a lot of people will miss. As I say, Scotland is very forward thinking. They recently put forward a roadmap talking about 24 different genders, which got heavily ridiculed. But don't take this the wrong way. This defence is in favour of government views, not against it. The case being brought is against it.
Talking about the hoops people have to jump through is an appeal to emotion. But comes from a good place. I don't think it's something that should be any sort of indicator, but that's just personal. If it gets the Sharon Davies' of the world off trans peoples' backs, though, I mean... the world just kind of sucks sometimes lol.
Oh OK. Thanks for clarifying.
I agree that there are better ways to go about the whole acceptance thing.
I guess one of the many hoops we need to jump through is court cases just to be left alone. <sigh>
Haters are going to hate. We will never be rid of them.
It's really hard to get your head around a lot of this stuff. Especially in the UK where we have like ultra left vs ultra right at this point. And it's tearing the country apart.
In case you're interested though, this is the guidance the SNP made:
https://www.gov.scot/publications/data-collection-publication-guidance-sex-gender-identity-trans-status/pages/1/
The usual suspects jumped all over it, because that's what they always do.