Has anybody looked into, been treated, or thought about OCD as being the issue and not being TS?
Sorry if this post seems like I am thinking out loud, because..well... it is.
"In OCD, it is as though the brain gets stuck on a particular thought or urge and just can't let go." O.k. I cannot get my brain off the thought of transition. So if I go through transition and my brain gets unstuck...then umm..then what.
http://www.ocfoundation.org/what-is-ocd.html
http://www.chrisspagani.com/gender/treatment10.htm
Most who have read my posts know I'm at a major crossroad in my life and in order to best help myself I have to be open to all forms of sensible treatment. OCD sounds allot like it could be the problem. I'm obsessed with becoming a woman. I'm obsessed over having breasts and looking pretty. I have body dysmorphic disorder... I feel I'm ugly as hell and want to change it. I'm depressed. I'm obsessed with women's clothing, makeup, shoes and everything feminine. Is it because I am not supposed to have it? Or is it because I'm TS and I really really want it and need it and I keep denying myself? Or is it becuase I have a compulsion that drives me to do that. Or does OCD make being TS worse? Am I truly a TS or just have some Obsessive compulsion....
It could be that in being TS, OCD comes as part of that deal. And there are those with GID and OCD or they just may be one or the other.
The textbook definition of Obsession is "Compulsive preoccupation with a fixed idea or an unwanted feeling or emotion, often accompanied by symptoms of anxiety."
So I look at my symptons, I am severely depressed. I want to be female in appearence. I am anxious. I hate my body. I cannot sleep more then 3hours a night. I act like a girl without even knowing it or being on HRT. All I want is HRT, because I know how good it makes me feel.
That sounds like a compulsion to me now that I read my own writing.
I guess its time to share of myself with you and why I am doing this
My childhood was not exactly normal. I was beaten so many times and several times to where I could either not walk, or limped in wich I was made fun of for doing. I'd be beaten then mocked for acting like a wuss when I could not physically walk normally. I've yet to see child abuse pictures with bruises as profound and big as mine. Often the bruise would start about mid back and go down to just above my knees. One huge purple, black yellow mess. This was my childhood. Growing up with broken noses, bruises and being knocked through walls. My dad was going to toughen me up ya know. And my step mom just enjoyed it I believe. She was the worst at using the wrong end of the belt.
So now I'm back to reality facing this TS issue. So how much of this is from my childhood? I started dressing up around the age of 5 or 6 and the beatings started shortly after that. So I was messed up from the starting point, but now what has 12 years of beatings done to me that I never dealt with?
Like I said before, my biggest fear is transitioning and saying whups. WTF did I just do. I wasn't TS I had severe OCD. I'm not saying I do, but I need to explore that.
This sounds like something I would write
http://www.chrisspagani.com/transgender.html
Lori,
I am so sorry you had to go thru so much as a child, it breaks my heart to read it. You did not have OCD at 5 years of age when you prefered girls clothes. The beatings came after that also. I would say it is GID rather than OCD. Your parents should have J.A.I.L.
beth
Hi Lori. I have gone through what you describe as being obsessed about "being a girl". Once my transition started progressing, that feeling diminished considerably. I still know this is the right path for me and can't imagine doing anything else. I know I don't have OCD (I have a friend that did) because it's only related to gender issues. I believe OCD seems more generalized about everything.
As for your daily beatings, I'm very sorry you had to go through all of that. I was very fortunate where I rarely got teased too much. I think it's a combination of having a personality where I get along with just about everyone and just being lucky to be around good people. I was beat up a couple times when I was growing up, but I quickly learned how to fight and was able to defend myself. In fact, I had a couple more times where people tried unsuccessfully to pick on me and after I was able to fend off the attacks, they actually had some respect for me.
At this point, it's not really a matter of not being able to live in a man's life, it's a matter of that it just doesn't make me happy and I really need a female life. Anyhow, life is life and there will be plenty of problems thrown at you no matter what gender you are. I just want to tackle them while being in the gender I feel comfortable as. Otherwise, it's like asking a right-handed person to write out everything with their left hand. It can be done, but it's just uncomfortable, harder and no fun.
Melissa
Lori, not that i'm any expert on such an issue, but I feel I gotta make a comment on it. Yes it would be possible to establish a perfect TS role based on an OCD background, but at an age which proceeds any accurate knowledge of physical personal construction? Its possible I would immagine but not as likely as it would appear to be.
I think of all the "little" things that drove me when that young. Aside from hair length and etc. such things I had no idea what the real physical differences were between male and female. I was forced to hang with the boys I learned society from them, not from females. There were many times when females young and old treated me badly and nothing I could do about it just as I could do nothing about how the majority of boys reacted to me. At times some of it made me somewhat angry and at times I would react to it and suffer further abuses because of it.
The thing for me was a simple knowledge I was a girl but so very few could see that for themselves. now after 55 years of learning to hold my own in the real world.
Would I feel any better if I simply considered myself to have a high degree of OCD involvement? Over my entire life I fought the drive to be female, I disregaurded and tried to ignore that part of my personality. If I were OCD inclined, would I be any better off in life at this time?
And I do know some of OCD involvement. I was placed in an OCD ward for a month or better this time. Made no changes in me at all. Staff and all began to refer to me as "her", "She", and any other feminine pronouns. I liked it.
I gotta admitt I didn't like the almost total control they tried to put me under but I recognize the need for it all insuranse wise. I was asked one time early on how I should be dressed and that was how they took care of me from then on. A nurse in the morning would do my hair and another would redo it for the afternoon.
They would come in and get me a little before lunch, take me into the hall across from the main nurses desk and park me. I would sit there all day, cross talk with the nurses at work, eat my meals and being in a ward of the hospital I worked for, have conversations with friends who recognized me.
Tell me how much better it would have been if I were looking for a special escape from my condition other then SRS.
No Lori, If given a chance to seek an alternative, how far would you go just to test such a theory? Some would when young I guess, but the older you get the harder it would get. Especially when you have tried all you feel you can.
Terri
Hello Lori.
I have to hand it to you, you've posted a very good question about a very complicated issue
I cannot even begin to pretend that I understand OCD and how it relates to GID or that it may provide an alternative treatment. And I think that that's where the difference lies. A TS knows that they are a woman and are subsequently diagnosed as such. There is no cure for GID as in reality there is nothing to cure only surgery to aligne the body with the brain of the individual concerned and some would say that that is the only reason for the surgery. Additionally, for various reasons many TS go through life without GRS, or any other treatment including HRT, and go on to live successfully to live as women, and again there is much debate over this. But in your case you state that:
Quote from: Lori
I'm obsessed over having breasts and looking pretty. I have body dysmorphic disorder... I feel I'm ugly as hell and want to change it. I'm depressed. I'm obsessed with women's clothing, makeup, shoes and everything feminine. Is it because I am not supposed to have it? Or is it because I'm TS and I really really want it and need it and I keep denying myself? Or is it becuase I have a compulsion that drives me to do that. Or does OCD make being TS worse? Am I truly a TS or just have some Obsessive compulsion....
Now I'm probably over simplifying the issue here, and I apologize in advance if I do, but in everything you have written and expressed you never mention that you are a woman, only that you crave, obsess compulsively over things feminine. That does not
make you a woman. People often crave and obsess over many things in life, including other people, but that doesn't make them that thing or that other person. Which in turn brings up the other topic where the question was posed... What's the difference between a CD and a TS, and the simple answer is in the two descriptive terms terms used - a CD is about dressing and the feeling associated with that act, and TS is simply that is describes a person whose body does not match the brain.
I'm not sure if any of that made any sense, but....
Take care.
Steph
Lori,
I can't express my sadness at how you were treated as a child. I also am having trouble with the anger I feel towards those who perpetrated this crime on you. There's no emoticon ever drawn that adequately expresses how I feel about this.
Since last July, I have had the same obsessive feelings about becomming physically female as you have described. I am lucky that they don't seem as intense as yours, yet, but I can see it coming. I'm losing sleep over it and my job performance is going down the drain along with everything else. It's what drove me to therapy starting this past December.
And this makes me wonder, did you ever ask your therapist about any connection between OCD and transexualism? In your web research, have you ever come across anything that connected the two? I know that I haven't really seen much of a connection between true OCD and being in the wrong body.
If I had a severe pain in my arm or head or anywhere else for as long as I've realized my true nature, I'd be pretty obsessed in getting rid of that too. Long term chronic pain messes people up, big time! So I don't think that this can really be related to obsession or compulsion. The symptoms may mimic OCD but the underlying causes seem to me to be different.
As I've written before, I'm trying real hard to be patient, to take baby steps in pursuit of my goals. I know (and hate) the fact that I may lose everything I hold dear. But, if it feels right after a while, I'll take another step. If not, I'll stop. I am willing to trust my therapist to help me identify and recognize those feelings. Should I transition and occaisionally feel regret I will then be able to remember, yes, I may feel dubious about it now but I went through this with my eyes open and my feet carefully placed on the road so I could see where I was going. I did it that way with expensive professional help because that way there's a much smaller chance I'd make a mistake and also a much smaller chance that I'd regret it.
We'll have to make those horribly difficult decisions for ourselves but, no matter what, they will be our own decisions and we should then be able to live with them.
helen
Quote from: Stephanie Craxford on March 06, 2006, 06:07:31 PM
Hello Lori.
I have to hand it to you, you've posted a very good question about a very complicated issue
Now I'm probably over simplifying the issue here, and I apologize in advance if I do, but in everything you have written and expressed you never mention that you are a woman, only that you crave, obsess compulsively over things feminine. That does not make you a woman.
I'm not sure if any of that made any sense, but....
Take care.
Steph
Well I assumed that a self diagnoses of being TS is that you feel like the opposite gender of what your skin is and that would be taken that way. Saying "I'm TS" is much more simple then constantly saying "I am a woman with the wrong skin and parts" I was
thinking out loud, as I stated at the beginning exploring my feelings and emotions. I have no doubts I feel like a female on the inside. I always have. I question the why do I feel that way. I wouldnt say a woman, if anything a scared little girl. I dont know if every TS goes through this phase, but before I jump in head first and do what I really feel like doing, I'd like to explore, reason, and deal with things my own way. I need that to be at peace, to know I explored all the options and had no other choice. I owe that to my son.
And yes I do crave all those things feminine. Dont all MTF TS?
Posted at: March 06, 2006, 07:50:41 PM
Quote from: HelenW on March 06, 2006, 06:56:55 PM
Lori,
And this makes me wonder, did you ever ask your therapist about any connection between OCD and transexualism? In your web research, have you ever come across anything that connected the two? I know that I haven't really seen much of a connection between true OCD and being in the wrong body.
First question no. The drugs they reccomend are anti depressants. Zoloft, paxil, and something that starts with an L. We did discuss these and I was told they do not work. They help with depression but they do not cure GID. They help with OCD.
I did a google on OCD and GID and came up with several sites and I posted a link above to one of them..the alternative cure site. I found some sites that the TG'ism disappeared in a few of the patients. Maybe 1 out of a 100. I'm not that lucky in life, but ya know....to me it is worth looking into. I am going to explore all of my options until non are left. I'm tired of dealing with this issue. By the end of this year I will know if I am going to transition or not. Maybe sooner. This year is my crossroad year. Lifetime decisions will be made and they will be permanent.
Posted at: March 06, 2006, 07:56:25 PM
Quote from: beth on March 06, 2006, 02:10:26 PM
Lori,
Your parents should have J.A.I.L.
beth
I feel what comes around goes around, and someday..... I always invisioned myself wearing a red dress to their funerals. Is that the ultimate insult?
Posted at: March 06, 2006, 07:59:51 PM
Quote from: Melissa on March 06, 2006, 04:41:03 PM
Hi Lori. I have gone through what you describe as being obsessed about "being a girl". Once my transition started progressing, that feeling diminished considerably. I still know this is the right path for me and can't imagine doing anything else. I know I don't have OCD (I have a friend that did) because it's only related to gender issues. I believe OCD seems more generalized about everything.
As for your daily beatings, I'm very sorry you had to go through all of that.
Fortunately they where not daily, but they where to often. I actually started writing a book called "The Stairs". There where 23 steps from the top floor to the basement and for every step I got a swat. She would count on the way down. A leather belt on a naked body is not a good match. Especially when the person delivering the blows is actually putting thier fat butt into it and walking away with a sweat. Then their was the cast iron spatula. My brother had to have his front teeth crowned because she chipped them all with one whack. I dont remember how many brooms she went through either breaking them over our backs..... enough about that. I worked so hard to put that in the past. I moved the day after I graduated high school. I called my dad at work and told him I was leaving. He wanted to know where...I said "Texas" and hung up. I didnt call him until 19 years later. This past December as a matter of fact to tell him he had a new grandson. He is still married to that woman, so I wont talk to him anymore.
I guess I'd better shut up before I get into writing that book in this forum.
Quote from: LoriAnd yes I do crave all those things feminine. Dont all MTF TS?
To answer your question - No, not all :) Which brings up another topic that is often discussed at Susan's
What makes a Woman (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2108.0.html) and,
Passing or Acceptance, redux (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2126.msg16454.html#msg16454). You would be surprised at how often one like this crops up, and the many different answers each received.
Probably not being very helpful huh :)
Steph
Quote from: Lori on March 06, 2006, 08:08:04 PM
And yes I do crave all those things feminine. Dont all MTF TS?
No, not all! I own exactly one set of what could be called sexy sleepwear. Boxers and a t shirt work just fine for me.
As for daily wear I do have one t shirt with (gasp) naked women on it. The rest of my clothes are just plain boring, well if you don't count the leather jacket, vests, pants and the floor length black duster.
Leigh
So maybe the just the more girly ones. I love femine things. I love getting my nails done and getting pampered. I guess I'm just different. As Melissa stated, those feelings about being obsessed with being a girl diminished considerably once her transition began. Perhaps all those girly feelings will with me as well if I choose to transition.
I posted this
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,918.20/topicseen.html
There are varying levels of femininity.
Lori
The only reason I posted was the deadly ALL word was used.
Then you posted >> I guess I'm just different
My point exactley.
Leigh
Quote from: Leigh on March 06, 2006, 08:38:59 PM
Lori
The only reason I posted was the deadly ALL word was used.
Then you posted >> I guess I'm just different
My point exactley.
Leigh
I apologize...it's been a long day. I will try to be more precise and careful in the future.
I am a TS, however if I am obsessive-compulsive about anything it is a desire to NOT BE HUMAN, how is that for an odd one? Therefor I tend to agree with the thought that they do not go hand in hand.
Don't get me wrong, I like most things feminine and have never cared for most things masculine, but I am not obsessive about them, but in the same vein my life has not denied me the things I truly wanted. Many many things I lacked (and lack!) but not the truly important things. I did not have to do without. I could express if I wanted, if I want. Being denied that chance, being denied that ability tends to lead to wanting it even more, yes? 'Obsession' yes?
By the by HRT really doesn't change your actions, I think. One's perspective seems to change a bit, but that like the sometimes new actions displayed may well be from the mental rearranging and the mental housecleaning, not from the different juices flowing though your veins... Consequently a last ditch 'whups' prevention maybe what you feel like while doing HRT. I found it to be a rather night and day difference for instance... I do not find it probable (though I know it has been done!) to go all the way and later realize that you have 'whupsed', if your careful and slow about it.
As you said, it's time to explore.
May you find what you seek.
[edit]green italic clarification[/edit]
I think I must have mis-posted. It wasn't girly thing I was obsessed about, but I meant I couldn't stop thinking about transition and all the memories in my life that told me I am a woman (that I chose to ignore), and after remembering so much stuff I needed to transition. Most of this was part of my "coming to terms" phase and the pain of feeling like I was in "limbo" with transition.
To be honest, if it was just about the girly things, then I would be a crossdresser. That's what I thought I was at first until I realized that cross-dressers don't experience these feeling of being in the wrong body...and life. I'm not one of those text-book transsexuals who thought to themselves at 5, "I am in the wrong body. Don't make me live this life." In fact this was one of the first things I told my therapist when I started seeing her. The fact is, for the most part, I was a happy kid when I was younger and gave little thought to gender.
I still remember the shock I experienced when I learned girls didn't have penises, but being a very open-minded person I learned to adapt. It wasn't really until around age 11 (at least from memory) that I started having an idea that I had a girl brain. I remember taking this quiz in a magazine that was supposed to determine whether you had a male or female brain. I'm sure my answers were skewed a little, but I definitely remember wanting the answer to come out as having a female brain (which of course it did, but again my answers were skewed). The important thing was that I knew I had a female brain even at that age. There are so many other clues like this that I have remembered.
Now, I have had 2 therapists diagnose me as transsexual and I'm on hormones and feel more "right" than I've ever felt. I've always been different from other guys. Even my wife was telling me tonight that I'm different from any guy she has ever met. So, I was never able to truly hide my femininity. Anyway, I'm rambling. Seems to be one of those effects of the hormones, because before that I said as little as possible. Now I am becoming a much more open person.
Melissa
Lori, as I mentioned in your other post, eye surgeon/tennis star Renee Richards said in her autobiography that she transitioned because she felt she had an incurable OBSESSION. SRS was her solution. It doesn't have to be your solution. If you're going to wonder about things, how about some average Joes who think in less specific terms why TG people are the way they are -- "those people are just plain crazy." Who knows? Joe could be right. But if we can find a lessening of tension, does it really matter?
Despite my post op status, I am curious about each new scientific discovery hoping for PROOF of medical (rather than psychological) reasons we are TS. I still question, from time to time, why I transitioned. Some at Susan's may think that's heresy -- post ops are SUPPOSED to be cured, mellow -- problem solved. If this person still questions the process, then this person shouldn't have done it! I have a different outlook: I feel that, if you don't question things, you are not a THINKING human being. Though I feel better in a female body, I don't stop my brain from pondering. Science intrigues me. I'm sure plenty of scientists would say that the time you stop questioning is the time you carve into granite things that might be wrong. Galileo kept testing theories throughout his life.
I still wonder if the SRS is a scientifically correct solution or whether it's snake oil. But if the snake oil has a placebo effect on making us feel calmer and more at peace, maybe it's the best solution we have at the moment. But maybe I should warn you, Lori: If you're a questioning person like me (and I think you are), you may still question from time to time if the SRS was a mistake. The "WHUPPS" discomfort (have I made a huge mistake?!) has happened to me whenever I had to confess to someone I'm in love with that I had a (male) past. Instantly, again I feel like a freak even though the SRS has supposidly been the great cure. I know that, if I hadn't transitioned, I wouldn't have this situation. After SRS, the two times I confessed my past and they still loved me dearly, I had the same hopeful feeling: Thank God I will never again have to "come out" as a TS to a love. And thank God I'll never have to date again. Unfortunately, the two relationships did not last -- Soon after the confession, they were gonnnne! Er, ah, "WHUPPS?"
I tend to question a lot of things -- religion, patriotism, group-think in any manner (similar to Lennon's "Imagine no countries, religions, possessions -- I wonder if you can"). One group-think is that psychologists claim they have incredibly high percentage rates of curing depression. Though individual people may, from time to time, argue, "Yahh, worked for me!" I still wonder at such supposid success ratios. Who determines if it's a success? Why are some people obssessive psych-session goers? Is there a cure being sought or is the doc a friend you see to pat you on the back and tell you you're on the right path (while generating $$ for the doc). If weekly psychology visits are helpful to any of you, I'm glad -- My doubt is merely indicative that I'm a suspicious person. Drugs like Prozac are, on one day, cure-alls for depression and the next day are found to cause suicide in some individuals. And estrogen helps with heart problems? Ah, er, no. Sorry..... Lori, you brought your fear of "WHUPPS." Well, the medical community (as opposed to us beginners) has done a lot of "WHUPPS." Who knows if the transsexual psychologists REALLY have it right? Psychology, to true medical researchers, is known to be a somewhat inexact and subjective "science." Some question even calling it a science.
It could be TS's, including me, have some number in the DNA makeup that should have been a zero instead of a one. Whether you define that difference as an obsession, craziness or just a simple anomoly is, to my mind, a pointless discussion because there really isn't enough "hard science" to prove anything right or wrong. Do I, Teri Anne, torture myself, wondering if I did a "whupps" by transitioning? No. I prefer questioning the whole GID/SRS process from time to time, for fun, because I like tilting windmills like Don Quixote. And Galileo.
The only thing certain is uncertainty (Pretty good saying, huh? I just made that up!)
Teri Anne
Teri-anne, you may question yourself "Why?" from time to time, but the real question is, "Are you happier now that you have transitioned?"
Melissa
Hi, Melissa. I thought I indicated my happiness by saying, above, "if we can find a lessening of tension, does it really matter?' But, to answer more completely (as I have in other posts), yes, I'm happIER now. This is not to say that transitioning is a cure-all as some psych journals indicate. I intimated in the above post, you trade some problems for other problems:
Before SRS: I worried about my INTERNAL well being and happiness - my body and mind didn't match. EXTERNALLY, I was VIEWED as being an average Joe. People I talked to never secretly whispered things about me (either positive or negative). I was just an entity, like a desk. Like a lot of average non muscular thinish men, I was not considered worth a second look. The INTERIOR made me uncomfortable ("I hate this appendage on my body"), the EXTERIOR provided calm and a non questioning environment.
After SRS: I'm calm and happy now, INTERNALLY, and have no dysphoria because my body and mind finally match. EXTERNALLY, though, things are less calm because, in a society that knows my past, I am at BEST, "THE TS" ("There she is. Isn't she brave. She used to be a guy -- you know, like in "Transamerica") and at WORST, (She used to be a guy -- isn't that crrrazy! God, I could never do that!). The INTERIOR is now calm as can be but my EXTERIOR world does, from time to time, cause angst (particularly, as I said, when having to out myself when dating).
Do I have regrets about SRS? I'd have to put it on a day to day percentage basis. 80% I feel better now with no regrets. 20% are the times I question whether the SRS was a "WHUPPS." Obviously, my moving to Washington where no one knows me will remove some of the societal trauma. I hope for a day when society gets bored with transsexuals but I know it won't ever happen. This excitement of supposid differences in gender (and court jesters putting on dresses) will always cause amusement.
Since there is that peaked interest (the advocates or critics -- I'd rather have none of it), I hope to soon have a life of stealth. That'll lessen my trauma to, hopefully, 15%. Finding a lifelong love will lower my trauma level to 5%. And that 5% angst will probably always be in me. I will never stop hating "guy in a dress" jokes. It will always make my stomach churn. If I was Afro-American, and there still were slow drawling Amos and Andy types on TV, that would cause 5% angst in me, too.
Try as we can, we cannot divorce ourselves from society. And, when you partake in society, sometimes it'll come up behind you and say, "Nah, nah nah nah nah." Just for fun.
Teri Anne
Good question Melissa.
Teri,
I feel that one should always question any diagnosis, just like in science. Somebody will come up with a theory and it will be challenged. Either those challenges will disprove that theory or the theory will be made valid and used and put into textbooks. Only by challenging that theory and coming up with different things can you prove or disprove its validity.
Since Transexualism is a self diagnosed issue, then I believe it is up to each and every individual to question their own diagnosis. I think, I question, I find the ins and outs, the positives and negatives, and look for the obvious soultion to the problem. I like to find the root, source, and cause. That way when I go to fix it, I know it was fixed right the first time. There is no going back after transition. There is no staying in the skin I am in only to have this pop up again every year. I cannot live like this. I must work towards a solution and fix this issue. This problem I have has brought up many questions and fears. It has come up with a few answers as well.
I consider this diagnosis "serious", and the potential outcome affects many around me. Either way I go, it will affect not only me but others. So I have to research this until I find the best solution to my problem. Only way I can do that is look for other symptoms, ie medical, psychological, and biological.
The fact that I feel like a woman inside, and always have since I can remember, and if my understanding is correct, I always will, makes my first question "why do I feel that way"? Is it a biological birth defect? Is it a psychological issue that I feel so compulsed to be a woman that it is masking itself as Transexualism? Or is there a medical condition in my brain that something broke, didnt grow or whatever and there is no way to cure it other then becoming my true self. Or is it something that can be fixed with an anti-depressant?
I want to transition, but I have to ask myself why, knowing what all is needed to successfully do it. There are so many downsides. Why would I want to do this? Why do I feel the need to do this? What, in becoming a woman on the outside, is going to cure me? Why is it that estrogen makes me feel sooo damn good? Is there something else that can do that same thing and not have the side effects?
I am not talking about dying hair, or shaving, or curing a gambling or drinking problem (I don't have those issues btw). I am talking about changing my gender to let the person inside calm down and feel normal and happy. I am talking about name change, hormones for life, changing legal documents, surgery for face and genitals, electrolysis, voice training, and unlearning 37 years. I am talking about losing a spouse that loves me, her girls, my home, my job, my friends and some relatives. I am talking about a son that will lose his father. With all that, why would somebody not question transition being the only hope or cure? I'm sure for some it is painfuly obvious. They feel there is no other choice and do what they need to do. I am an individual that must know I did not overlook the obvious or other ways to make sure that I am a true TS and with that comfort I could transition and expect a happier outcome.
I am systematically wiping out any chance of a "whups", and just may stumble on something that cures me.
I hear people ask "How or why would they ever want to do that?" (referring to changing genders).
I realise that want is not an option. Nobody could ever want to go through everything I listed above to transition. Nobody wants to lose everything and go through hell for two years and spend 10's of thousands of dollars to be happy.
I want this all to end. I want to be happy. I want to not have this issue. I want my son to have his father. Is it possible? Only way to find out is to ask those questions and deal with this issue, explore other avenues and cure it, or be left with two options. Die or transition. I have also come to realise I'm better off alive for my son and my wife so that would leave just one option.
I am trying to get to another diagnosis besides being Transexual. That is the textbook, accepted solution. I just do not have faith in somebodies diagnosis when it comes to me and my mental issues as rare as this. What may have worked for some, may not work for me. It has failed with miserable results for others. I do not want to be miserable. I wished they could come up with a known way to test for it. How do I not know, that this is something that cannot be fixed other then transition? Before I go that route, I am going to find out or at least do my best, so in the event I have to transition, I can look in the mirror and see a woman reflecting back at me, smile, and say yup! I was sooo right. It was all worth it. Any other outcome would be devestating.
Transition is a last option for me. My wife knows it, and I know it. I'll spend my time, my money, and my effort to know that if it comes down to transition, I had no other choice and will accept it and do my best to do it right.
For me, I am confident that the final result will make me happier than I am now. My most valuable possessions I own are all contained in my head and nobody can ever take that away (short of killing me or causing brain damage in which case I wouldn't care). All other possessions are of this earth and if everything was taken away from me, I would still be able to start up my life again. So fear of losing things was not a big issue for me. So far, my transition has gone relatively smooth. I still have my wife, kids, house and job (although I need to find another one soon) and I will deal with stuff as it comes along.
After transition, I am not as happy as I think I will be, then I'll take what I have and make the best of it. That's just how I am. After all, I'll still have my most valuable possessions. I've tried living as a male and hate it. At least I will know what transition would bring afterwards. I'm sure I couldn't hate living as a female any worse. And if I do, then maybe I wasn't meant to continue living. A female was not meant to live a man's life and I have successfully proved this to be true in my case. Sorry if this sounds a little morbid. I know this is an important life decision and I have already made my decision. It's a one way road that I have no intention of going back on.
On an interesting side note, one thing to compare transition to is a roller coaster ride. You always start by going slowly up a tall ramp. This is like the preparation and going to the psychologist. Then you start HRT. This is when you are at the top. As changes start happening, it can be both scary and exciting at the same time (that's where I am now). As you continue to go through transition, there may be sudden turns or loops and if you don't fight them, you should make it past them. Once you get off the ride, things will be much different. For me, I look at transition as a means of transportation from one life to another and I look forward to my new life. I guess you could also compare transition to moving to a new house, but I'll stop here.
Melissa
Melissa
Melissa, you ended with, " I guess you could also compare transition to moving to a new house, but I'll stop here." LOL, you had to mention "house" to an architecture buff like me! Okay, I'll do 'er...
Moving to a new house is exciting and worrisome at the same time. Once in, and the boxes and furniture are scattered in all directions, you wonder how everything is possibly going to fit in this place. I liked the "model" house but, with my stuff, will this place look as good? Then, you unpack and everthing fits well, sort of. Well, have to get rid of that table. You put a fresh coat of paint on the outside and some neighbors compliment it and some just walk by. At night, you relax in your living room. And it begins to rain outside. Nice sound. It's so warm and cozy in here. Mmmmm.
Whupps, what's that drip?
The only thing certain is uncertainty. You patch the leak and, as you say Melissa, if "I am not as happy as I think I will be, then I'll take what I have and make the best of it. That's just how I am."
Me too.
Teri Anne
Here is a good link I found that has some really good questions.
http://www.genderpsychology.org/transsexual/question.html
At the end, it mentions "But the real question, and the only question, you need to answer is this: what path for your life will let you be happy?". This is a very good question and definitely one of the major ones I was asking myself when I was still in the confusion stage. In fact, sometimes I don't feel like I'm moving fast enough and other times I feel like I'm progressing nicely. So far, my transition has gone fairly quickly compared to some people. My 2 biggest concerns are electrolysis and hair length. I really wish I hadn't had so short of hair when I started. I suppose there is always hair extensions. I think I will be fine with regards to facial hair as well. Anyway, good luck with your decision in your life.
Melissa
Melissa maybe I'm going insane over deciding to transition because I am going about it all wrong. A different point a view perhaps would be...
Maybe transitioning does not make one happy. Transitioning is what makes it possible for one to find happiness.
I like that, and I can see how it could.
Instead of asking the hard core questions...Understand everything in my past and decide what it all means, and what possible effect it had leading up to where I am now, and get a better understanding of my emotions.
This is an interesting topic I've enjoyed reading the varied replies, and Lori your reply is interesting in that it is almost a direct quote from "Gender Identity Disorder (GID) Case Study: an Autobiography of a Transsexual Psychology Graduate Student", which is in itself an interesting article and includes
Quote"Perhaps the answer is that transitioning does not make me happy. Transitioning is what makes it possible for me to find happiness."
You definitely seem to have latched on to something.
Keep going folks :)
Steph
That is one of the best statements I have heard regarding this. As to thinking deeply about your past, that is something I did a lot of. However, being younger, I did not have quite as many years to ponder over. After pondering long enough, I knew I was sure enough about transitioning that I wanted to do it while I am still young. Also, while I was digging into my past, I came across some painful buried memories and that pretty much triggered a landslide and I became very depressed and virtually non-functional. I even started having panic attacks sometimes. In other words dysphoric. This alone told me that I needed to transition. As I went along, I would read things here and there that validated that transition was right for me.
Once I started hormones, it was a HUGE relief and I became more functional, although I still have my problems from time to time. Would I say that I'm fine at this point? No. I am hoping that once I begin living fulltime, this will improve my condition, since I have heard it had this effect on other transsexuals. So, maybe this breif description of how I got from where you are to where I am now might be helpful.
Melissa
For what it is worth I would describe transitioning as removing pain, not finding happiness. Although I am finding that path to happiness is presenting itself in greater clarity than ever before.
Quote from: Kimberly on March 09, 2006, 12:07:29 AM
I would describe transitioning as removing pain, not finding happiness.
In other words: Transitioning is what makes it possible for one to find happiness
by removing pain.
Melissa
I prefer Lori's and Stephs
"Perhaps the answer is that transitioning does not make me happy. Transitioning is what makes it possible for me to find happiness."
For me (and I'd guess others), it was more complicated than
"Transitioning is what makes it possible for one to find happiness by removing pain."
The complication is that there's STILL pain after transition, It's just DIFFERENT: You have INNER peace but, on the OUTSIDE, society provides angst-causing noise. But, in studying the TWO PAINS:
The pre-transition pain (gender dysphoria) is nearly impossible to cure without transition (a difficult, expensive, painful, risk-filled process)
The post-transition pain (societal intolerance) can often be cured (presuming you're passable) merely by moving and going stealth. If people find out, you move again. Beats the pain of getting zapped by an electrologist! Or recovering from surgery. And there's always the chance that you'll grow annoyed with being pushed around and so, instead, respond, "You don't like me? That's YOUR problem! I'm staying."
I'll take that post-transition pain WAYYY over the pre-transition pain. It's a lot easier to solve.
Teri Anne
Quote from: Teri AnneI prefer Lori's and Stephs.
:) Sorry if I misled anyone Teri Anne, but just to clarify my post I wasn't agreeing with any of the posts to this topic or even puting forward my views, I just making an observation on the views and ideas that have been written:)
Steph
I'm pretty much constantly thinking about transitioning these last few months too. I've always toyed with the idea, ever since learning that such things were possible, but only fairly recently have I begun considering it as an actual possibility. I think when one ponders such a mind-boggling option, it's going to occupy one's thoughts quite a bit ;)
But what is confounding me is I can't figure out WHY I want to do this. I don't crossdess. I don't go out "enfemme." I don't think about having breasts. In fact, the thoughts that transitioning might mean I WILL have to wear uncomfy heels and bras, worry about my hair, and so on... seem like reasons to NOT transition. There was a time years ago when I was more fascinated with feminine trappings, but these days... I don't know, it's just not there.
ALL that's left instead is a much more focused desire/need to transition that I just can't seem to shake. In fact, it's almost as if it's happening on it's own now, dragging me along with it, now that the distractions are gone. I've started seeing a therapist(s). I have an appointment to start laser hair removal soon. All things that a year ago would have seemed so "not me," and yet I find myself doing them. It feels like I need this process, I need to be moving in this direction in order to survive. I'm terrified of actually transitioning, but I don't know if I could bear NOT heading this way. And now that I've opened pandoras box, I don't think it can be closed again.
Kate,
Yes, I opened the same Pandora's box. I sometimes question if the act of wearing women's clothing at a young age can have a cause and effect result. Others say that TS's try on their mom's or sister's clothing BECAUSE they are TS. Was that my Pandora's box? Or was it the birth drugs my mom was given when pregnant? Or was it the time I fell off a car when I was a kid? Or the turpentine I drank as a kid? (and had to have my stomach pumped out -- no, I wasn't suicidal, I was just a dumb kid) Or the fact that a part of the brain in TS's is the same size as that part in genetic women?
I hope for medical causes for transsexualism in part to legitimize my feelings. Others say, if you're happy (which I am), does it really matter? Even though I'm post-op, I love to question things about gender and character formation -- it fascinates me. In that process, I sometimes ponder, if kids are raped at a young age and they end up, later in life, rapists, can something like clothing, at an impressionable age, cause problems later? Since that early introduction to women's clothing, I've grown bored with clothing and prefer casual stuff. Overtly feminine things are just plain uncomfortable. I think you're being logical. Plenty of genetic women and men would agree.
Another reason to be bored with clothing is the newness issue: When you get a new car, you're VERY excited about it. After a few years of owning it, it's "transportation." When you first fall in love with a woman, your heart pumps wildly. When you've been married a few years, there's comfort in hugging. Even though there's a lot of trauma in transitioning, I also can confess that it can be thrilling. Wearing a dress to work for the first time, I didn't know if I'd die with fright or happiness. Then, after a few years, some pants seem perfectly fine to wear.
"How you gonna keep 'em down on the farm after they've seen Pareee?" I don't know. I've seen Paris. It's exciting at first but, after awhile, you come to realize that, like any city, it has smog and traffic. The thrill may be gone but you still like the place enough to continue living there. That's the way I view being female. It may not be as exciting as during transitioning, but I still like the place.
Can you get off the train to Paris? Yes. Of course. But weigh your reasons for wanting it carefully. And don't let momentary excitement of new things or new goals confuse the issue. When you dig on a hillside of sand, sometimes the ground can slip from under you and take you to a place where you didn't intend to go (My gosh -- Maybe I wrote proverbs in my previous life).
Teri Anne
Hiya Teri,
Yes, the whole thing fascinates me too. I'm not so sure I enjoy being my own lab experiment, lol, but it IS a fascinating subject to explore... probably *because* it's so complicated, convoluted, and impossible to untangle. Exploring this issue is a bit like surfing the web... one link leads to another, and to another, and pretty soon you're SO far from the point. But you've learned so much in the journey that it creates. The whole thing is so wonderfully symbolic of the heroic journey, of finding yourself, bringing a dream to life, crossing an impossible barrier, slaying your dragon, and so on.
I feel for you Lori, I really do. Believe me, I've turned the internet upside down trying to find answers. I've dug up feelings and ill-conceived ideas I never knew I had. I've spent evenings sobbing at the bottom of a shower stall for no particular reason other than just the TENSION becoming so unbearable.
But why does it become obsessive? Because I think we know what we really want to do, and we just keep trying to find a way to justify it, both to ourselves and to everyone's lives we disrupt. In my case, I'm apparently not willing to accept the responsibility for that choice, so I search and search for some justification, some reason why I "have" to do this. Something I can point to and say, "See? I Had No Choice." The need to do this never goes away, and seems to usually ripen around middle age. I have this weird sensation that I'm packing before an approaching storm... trying to get everything sorted out before it hits. And yet none of this, none of the research, explanations, theories, therapy... none of it is doing a thing to stop this from happening. But I can't help myself from desperately trying.
Hi Kate,
I have had though exact same feeling of wanting to transistion grow within me the last few months. I am coming from a slightly different path as I am a cross dresser.
The mind is a very powerfull within ourself. I do not think anyone will be able to completly say why you want to transition but we are all different and it seams to me that most of the people who transition identified themselves as a female well before they stated the process of transitioning.
There is plently of resources within Susan's for you to look at - in particular the Wiki has plenty of infomation ( https://www.susans.org/wiki/Main_Page). You are not alone in being facinated about transitioning.
Alice
First, this has been a huge-ly interesting topic, and has brought up many questions I've asked myself over the years and especially more recently as I've started my own transtition.
I won't comment on every item that piqued my interst or resonated with me -- just some of the highlights.
CLOTHES -- I guess I failed as a crossdresser prior to deciding to transition. Did I have no interest, or was I avoiding a slippery slope? I really don't know. Since beginning transition, I can't keep my nose out of the Lane Bryant catalog, wondering, "How would I look in that?..." I've put together a nice small collection of feminine (not 'sexy') sleepwear, and feel comforted while wearing it. But I look at what most natal women are wearing these days. You don't see many skirts or flowy/ruffled blouses, do you? What Teri Anne and Leigh said about plain/drab pants and tops is pretty much the norm and, with the exception of attending events where you're supposed to dress up, is where I suspect I'll find myself.
BTW, this is where I buy my guy clothes, and now they have a line of gal clothes, too.
http://www.duluthtrading.com/store/womens/womens.aspx (http://www.duluthtrading.com/store/womens/womens.aspx)
OBSESSION -- Hmn... I feel as if I've been studying all my life for transition. Even back when I was in denial, I was keenly interested in articles on gender and ->-bleeped-<-. I caught the Phil Donahue show with Wendy Carlos (nee Walter), and remember watching with an -- intensity... (It helped that Switched on Bach was/is one of my favorite albums.)
An aside -- Wendy made a comment on the show about HRT. She'd detailed the suicidal ideation 'he' had had, imagining using the razor blade from the tape splicing block to slit 'his' wrists. After two months on HRT, she accused her doctor of secretly prescribing valium, because she felt the calmness and serenity that valium had provided in the past.
Another example was reading an article in a science magazine about Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome -- how a genetic XY male could have a birth defect that prevented 'her' body from responding to any form of testosterone -- the fetal genital tissue never gets the signal to organize into a phallus and scrotum, and then at puberty the body can't respond to whatever testosterone the body is capable of producing. I also found out this wasn't the best topic of conversation with 'the guys.'
I read many such articles relating to gender, orientation, the physiology of sex, etc., absorbing the information. It didn't feel like an obsession -- maybe a strong interest. Looking back now -- what was it?
PSYCHOLOGY vs PHYSIOLOGY -- 'Want to' vs. 'Need to' is what it seems to boil down to. Hmn. Based on a comment my mom made to me (that my sisters were at greater risk for cervical cancer because of 'a drug' she was given during pregnancy,) I suspect I'm a DES child (DES is a synthetic estrogen.) She also married into a family of rich but haughty and mean-spirited people who would stress her to crying every day about how she was unworthy to be a member of their illustrious family (pregnant women under stress tend to produce elevated levels of estrogen, and there's a statistically significant increase in homosexuality and ->-bleeped-<- in the population whose mothers were pregnant with them AND were living in europe during the end of WWII)
So if it's physiological, I think I've made a pretty good case as to why I ended up transgendered. The problem seems to be with those who for whatever reasons are obsessed with insisting "it's all in your head." (<EDITORIALIZE> And the worst offenders in my book are those who insist "God makes no mistakes," but will insist on surgery to correct thir baby's cleft palate... </EDITORIALIZE>) I, too, am looking for an argument-proof physiological reason -- one that shuts up the alumni of the School of Constipated thinking ("Hey, Haz! Don't hold back, tell us how you REALLY feel...") Yet, in the end, does it really matter to us? Shouldn't we be able to choose for ourselves without other people trying to make the decision for us, for 'our own good,' whatever that is?
OTHERS -- I'm waiting for the day (and it WILL come,) when some Neanderthal says to/about me, "You're a FREAK!!!" If I think I can safely get away with it, my answer will be, "No, I'm YOUR freak." We are NOT freaks to each man, woman and child in the world. We're certainly not freaks to ourselves. We find people who accept us and support us as human beings ought. And, yes, we find those who are casting for the bit part of 'freak' in their life screenplays, who can only elevate their own self esteem by stepping on others. That's what I meant by "No, I'm YOUR freak." I'm not a freak to 'everybody', therefore I'm not a freak (though I'll likely remain a 'curiosity' to most people (being one out of 3,333.))
The irony is that in order to find my true self and increase my potential for happiness, I now have to study for yet another a societal role. I studied to be 'male' for (counting from age 5,) 44 years, and gotten pretty good at it. Now I have to study for the so-called opposite role. The better I play the role, the fewer people I'll weird-out at a first meeting (isn't that why 'passing' is so desirable?) Why can't I just be 'me', whatever that is? Why do I still have to conform to society's mores?
Terri Anne, I'm saddend to hear your romantic interests ran when learning your status, I hope you soon find an accepting significant other. It shouldn't be that way, but the majority of people see gender as an either/or. It kind of comes around back to what I mentioned earlier about brighter, more intelligent people pursuing transition. They may see the truth that gender and orientation is a spectrum, not an either/or. And they will be less likely than the average-to-dull group to see transsexuals as guys-in-dresses and women-who-crave-penises, never mind the supreme confusion the average-to-dulls go through trying to play, "And, what sexual orientation IS it?" (Teri Anne, maybe you can improve your chances of finding a good relationship if you try hanging out where smart people congregate. ;) )
No, this is the world in which we must live. We can't change it, we can only change orselves. (HEY!! we're doing just that!! :o )
Lastly, Lori, I'm sickened to hear your description of what happened to you during your childhood. No child should EVER go through that. I received psychological and some physical abuse at the hands of a stepfather and his two neanderthal sons, but nowhere near what you have described. In your case, the moral books cry out for being balanced in some way, but I don't know what could be done to your parents that would ever make up for what you've described them doing to you.
I do have a bit of a fantasy in my case, though. after I've fully transitioned, I get dressed/made up as feminine as possible and go visit my former stepfather (if he's not dead yet.) After I convince him I'm the stepson he used to persist in trying to make a man out of, and while he's still in shock, I hug him, plant a kiss on his cheek :-* and thank him for helping make me the woman I am today! >:D
(Yah, I know. It's so-o-o passive-agressive ::) )
Lori, I hope that put a smile on your face!
Haz
EDIT: Spellos <sigh>
Kate, You nailed it on the head as to why we're obsessive. If the WORLD didn't mind our transitioning and looked upon it like we were fixing a birth deformity (like fixing a baby's cleft pallate), we would not obsess, plain and simple. We obsess because we fear what others will do to us (from making us feel guilty to treating us badly to killing us). So Lori, I theorize you aren't obsessing because you have worries about how YOU will like it. You're obsessing because you fear how OTHERS will like it. To me, it's all a question of whether you want to give the outside world that much power over yourself.
Hazamu, you brought up so many points that were great (and a few I'd forgotten). You're so much more educated about the TS thing than I was when I transitioned in 1999. The internet is an incredible tool for knowledge. I love Googling and the learning never seems to end, one web page leading to another. There is, of course, a validation factor in the internet which people should be aware of. Even skinheads can find validation for their hatreds on some web pages. I fear some young TG's or CD's reading stuff and getting motivated to transition when, in reality, they might be happier staying where they are. Yes, we talk about the pitfalls of transition often enough but some young men, who still have testosterone in them, might see such pitfalls the way a bull looks at a red flag blowing in the wind. Or as Mr. Bush said as the Iraq war began, "bring 'em on."
Kate, you said, "The whole [transition] thing is so wonderfully symbolic of the heroic journey, of finding yourself, bringing a dream to life, crossing an impossible barrier, slaying your dragon, and so on."
I slayed the dragon and am happier on the other side. But my battle scars make me wary when I see young'uns walking to the enlistment center (sometimes, the psych offices by validating our views). I want to shout to them, "War is hell," but, most often they just smile back bravely and give a little wave.
"We'll be all right, ma'am. Don't you worry."
Teri Anne
Quote from: Teri Anne on March 11, 2006, 02:55:40 PM
"We'll be all right, ma'am. Don't you worry."
There's a little victory for you -- they "ma'am"ed you! :D
And, good point on self-validation. Years ago, I used to freight-hop. I learned to check my information with at least three sources -- more if there was disagreement (nothing makes a trip stink like ending up in a place other than the destination you wanted to go to that's impossible to get out of -- a good metaphor for transitioning, eh?) When googling critical information, I always try to run at least three searches -- one neutral, one biased to be favorable to the topic, and one biased to be unfavorable. Then I compare, compare, compare and finally come to my own conclusion.
Haz