All of us have seen posts that state: I feel like a woman inside.
The question is how do you know what a woman feels like emotionally and mentally.
I was actually asked this question when I came out to my parents. I had difficulty answering it, but I can say that I have a much easier time relating to other women than I do men. I can also say I would much rather have a female body and be treated as female than live life as a male.
Melissa
Very engaging question, Leigh. I look forward to seeing all the responses to this. To be quite honest, I have no idea what 'makes' me 'feel' like a girl. I know I love being a girl, yet I can't really pinpoint the why of it... it just feels right...whole...proper...me.
How do very young children know? Last year I read As Nature Made Him, about the boy whose penis was severed in a botched circumcision. His parents raised him as a girl, and continued to raise his twin brother as a boy. So how did this kid continually defy what his parents told him, and what society told him, from a very young age? He just acted like a boy, regardless of what his family said and how they dressed him. He knew deep within himself that he was not a girl.
So I would take that to mean that perhpas what we are cognizant of as adults is only secondary to what we instinctually know as children.
Valerie
Not the easiest to put into words. I always knew I didn't relate to the other boys my age, I didn't understand them, didn't want to do the things they wanted to do.
It was the girls I related to, I liked dolls, I liked playing jacks, jumprope, etc. I felt comfortable when I was with the girls, I seemed to understand them. I knew I hated being a "boy" I hated the changes that took place in my body later.
I suppose when I say I feel like a woman inside, is just my way of saying I don't feel like a man.
Sarah
Perhaps the best answer to this question is "I don't know. I just do." That's what I ended up telling my parents.
Melissa
That was something I used to ponder for a while: how can one know what they are inside when they have nobody else's feelings and experiences to compare it to. But we can observe how others behave, and by putting myself in others' shoes and reflecting on how they react to different situations vs. how I would react, it became pretty clear that men's minds seemed to be made of a different "stuff" than mine.
It's funny how completely opposite my own perceptions were from the conditioning that kept me in the dark (e.g. "you'll never understand women", "it's natural for males to be curious about what it would be like to be female", etc) for my first 20+ years of life. And all this time my own internal unvoiced response was, gee if I'll never understand how women think then why the heck do I seem to understand already, and to think the same way! :P :)
Quote from: Leigh on March 08, 2006, 09:32:24 AM
All of us have seen posts that state: I feel like a woman inside.
The question is how do you know what a woman feels like emotionally and mentally.
Personally I have "NO" idea how a woman feels either emotionally or mentally, or any other way for that matter, and I would challenge anyone to say that they do. Each of us knows how we each feel ourselves whether you are male or female.
I do know how I feel inside and I'm the only one who does, and if the way that I feel reflects to others how they think a woman feels then so be it.
Did that make sense? :)
One thing for certain is that I definitely know how women feel when they are mad at me, just ask Gill :)
Steph
[edit] Had to change a "that" to "who"[/edit]
Stephanie
I just feel that I am really a woman and should have been born a female. Since biologically and to the outside world I am a man, my feeling and / or realization that I am a woman is something I can only keep inside of me. That is why I say I feel like a I am a woman inside.For many years, I never had any such thoughts and I used to make fun of a friend when he used to say that he would prefer to be a woman if he could be one, not knowing that later I would start feeling absolutely miserable about living as a man. I continue to be a man to the outside world and will die as one. Nothing could make me happier if even for one day I could be turned into a woman. My feelings are very strong about it regardless of the fact that I lack many characteristics of a woman.
Some of my physical attributes are more like a woman's while emotionally I may not have a woman's characteristics. But then, I have seen many women including my own mother who did not break down emotionally like average women tend to. In many ways my mother was more of a man than I am as even my wife tells moe often.
Leela
I'm sure if you ask most women, they would not be able to answer this question either...
You feel what you feel as an individual... and society's definitions take over and DICTATE whether that is feminine or masculine. You're sex is what defines whether this is a dysphoric situation or not. If the dysphoria could result in a terminal condition, then sexual reassignment may be the only option.
Transsexuals are born the wrong genetic sex for their perceived gender, Transgenders are able to straddle the line between what they are and what they feel they should be, ->-bleeped-<-s are just happy to be able to vacation in "The land of the other gender" and then there are the rest of the folks who are quite content with their Sex, Gender and Sexual Orientation.
"That's just my opinion, I could be wrong."
I have been thinking about this question all day myself. I guess the answer would be, I feel like a woman because I like feminine things and I like what other women like and I want to live a woman's life (both good and bad).
Melissa
I am a woman so I at least know how one woman feels......me. I dunno if any others are similar, I believe all of us think and feel differently although there are common threads. I don't especially like feminine things but then all women don't like them either. I loved raising my children and love attending children now but all women don't like children by any means. I know I think and feel differently than men i have known, judging by the way they talk and act. I guess no human knows exactly how another feels.
beth
Quote from: beth on March 08, 2006, 05:50:26 PM...
I guess no human knows exactly how another feels.
...
Therein lies the answer.
I never really felt "like a gender"
I feel like a person. I happened to be fortunate and was born with female genetailia and my brain never objected... Stephanie posted this thread a few months ago https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2108.0.html I pretty much said the same there...
Jaycie put it well earlier... Its akin to describing that exact moment you fell in love. you really can't.
Hi, I dont' really know myself. I just know that I was always a bit uncomfortable around boys from an early age. Although I had a few friends thru out my life they were
far few in between. I felt I could relate to girls. I didn't understand then all that much I just knew I wanted to be with girls more than boys. I feel that way now that I could be a woman instead of a man. I hated being pushed into that male role. Not that I don't enjoy some of the things I did and still do that are tratitional male things. But I hear that is changing now. I always had a fasination for womens shoes for some reason. And I like feminine things just haven't been able to express these feelings till now. I've been pretty much quiete and somewhat withdrawn much of my life trapped within myself not being able to express my feminine side of me. What I mean to say is yes I do feel like a woman. These past few months I have been expressing myself in feminine ways even my voice sounds like a woman with practice. I do break down emotionally like a woman
when things happen like when my pet cat died. I cryed uncontrollably for weeks. Something that as a male I had to suppress all my life. I always would get emotional over things and I would be told to just stop it. It wasn't normal for me to express myself emotionally they would say. Well I guess if I feel that emotional when something serious happens then I must be a female inside.
Owen
Love being female
Definitions of
to feel:
To be conscious of an inward impression, state of mind, persuasion, physical condition, etc.; to perceive one's self to be.
Come to believe on the basis of emotion, intuitions, or indefinite grounds.
As has already been said no one can know how anyone else feels. But we can see how other react to different situation ect. If we also react the same than it can be said that we feel the same way.
So a statement like
QuoteMy reaction to many things are the same as other women therefore I must think (feel) like a woman at least in those situations.
would be acceptable.
Does this make any sense?
I'm really not sure.
Jillieann
Quote from: Leigh on March 08, 2006, 09:32:24 AM
All of us have seen posts that state: I feel like a woman inside.
The question is how do you know what a woman feels like emotionally and mentally.
Great question! I've never been comfortable with the usual "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body!" descriptions.
I think of it this way: perhaps for people who's gender matches their physical sex, they're NOT aware of feeling male or female. They don't notice it, as there's nothing to contrast it against. Kinda like how fish don't notice water and birds don't feel the air perhaps.
But GID people DO notice thier gender, as it's opposed to both their body and how people treat them. This IS GID in a sense: a pervasive, continuous awareness of one's gender. It'd be difficult to label that feeling male or female, but if nothing else it feels incongruent, in contrast with everything else. Naturally, it's a logical assumption to equate that feeling with the OTHER sex, but it's only an assumption, a conclusion, not a FEELING.
I finally settled on explaining that I will never know what it is like to "feel" like a woman because no matter what the doctors may or may not find, I was socialised as a male within this society. Also I never fit in very well and never identified with the males and male figureheads that society introduced. I do know that I feel and function much better by crossing over to what a more feminine role and appearance. I also know that I want to have surgery in order to finish my crossing from one to another.
To keep it short though I usually just say, I am I. (http://www.queensryche.com/releases/promised-land/lyrics/02-i-am-i.html)
Isn't that what Moses told God :I am what I am" :)
you said it Lost, says it all :)
[/color
For me saying that I feel like a woman is more of a conclusion than a statement of condition. When I hit puberty and a sexual identity mattered to me I fell that I should be wearing panties and putting on bras. I should be wearing dresses and getting my hair fixed. Sexually I am attracted to women, so I must be a lesbian. I identified more with Dale Evens and what she did than I did with Roy Rodgers. I did not feel competitive when I played softball being more like a girl in the 1950s was, than a boy. However, I was not coordinated jumping rope and playing girls games either. I liked the idea of wearing dressing like a girl and was indifferent to male dress. Female clothing was not accessable to me because my parents room was off limits and my mother did not leave her things laying around. There were only one or two occations that I had access to her bra to try it on and one almost used up lipstick in the medicine cabinent. I tried that also. My sister when they came along were 6 years and 18 years younger than I was. For many years my female idenity was just a mental facination until after I was 25 years old.
Regardless of how I dress, I feel like a female wearing a male disguise. As I look more female from the hormones, this has been changing to more feeling like a female. It's almost like the disguise is melting off of me.
Melissa
Quote from: Melissa on March 12, 2006, 07:00:10 PM
Regardless of how I dress, I feel like a female wearing a male disguise.
I am still forced by circumstances to work as a male. Several months ago I realized that dressing as a guy I felt like I was in drag; it's a huge relief to get home and dress normally! Maybe that's part of "feeling like a woman", when being a guy feels like you're wearing a disguise.
Quote from: Annie Social on March 13, 2006, 02:49:15 PMMaybe that's part of "feeling like a woman", when being a guy feels like you're wearing a disguise.
So true! I'm still living as an ordinary guy, but I've *always* had this irrational fear that my TSism is "showing" somehow, that I'm going to be "read" as a woman impersonating a man, as insane as that sounds. It makes me *extremely* self-conscious when around people. Do ya all feel that way too?
My point was that it did not matter how I am dressed, because it's my body that is the disguise. As my body has been going through changes, this is what make me feel like I have less of a disguise. I wouldn't say wearing male clothes makes me feel like I'm in drag, it's just the discomfort of people relating to me as male. In fact, I usually don't change my clothes when I get home, because the other people in my house know I'm female and treat me as such.
Kate, it sounds like you saw the point of my post that it's not the male clothes that are the disguise.
However, all of my casual clothes are female, but they are more androgynous so that I don't need to put on makeup or anything to go out.
Melissa
". . . feel like a woman . . ."
The word "like" implies a comparison. And I think the previous posts have pointed in that direction. And I think that's all anyone can do when they consider similarities between people's feelings. We can't know experientially but we can and do compare our feelings with the evidence around us.
So, when my male acquaintences talk about sex, cars, snowmobiles, football, etc. and I hear them express their feelings about these things, I compare their communication to my own inner experience and have to conclude that I'm not like them. And when I relate to my female friends and listen to them talk about things, I compare and see that their expressions and their approach to things is more congruent to my experience than a male's would be.
Thus, the only conclusion I can reach is, because I certainly don't LOOK like a woman, that I feel like a woman inside. :)
helen
Posted at: March 13, 2006, 09:21:41 PM
Another thought just occurred to me, that we may know based on a deeper psychic sense of our kinship to whichever gender we identify with. Intellectual excercise is not the only way humans get to know things, of that I'm sure so, maybe when I relate to other women I get the subjective sense of belonging as well as the intellectual reasoning. It certainly feels that way!
helen
I think Helen has the real key to the matter.
Being a man or a woman takes it's shape from how we respond to all the things in life around us. Since none of us can EVER know what another person FEELS, we can only compare our feelings to those that others express.
One can compare one's feelings to men and say "I am different than them" or to women and say "That's the way I feel"! If you feelings coincide with what (most) other women feel in the same circumstances and not with men, that it is reasonable to say you "feel like a woman".
There is also a deeper sense of gender that is more individualistic but I think it lies beyond understanding or explaining.
Quote from: Northern Jane on March 14, 2006, 03:14:47 PM
One can compare one's feelings to men and say "I am different than them" or to women and say "That's the way I feel"! If you feelings coincide with what (most) other women feel in the same circumstances and not with men, that it is reasonable to say you "feel like a woman".
What's driving me crazy is trying to figure out why an effeminate gay man will still identify as a man, yet a 250 pound ex-marine might identify as a female inside (if a TS)?
The effeminate gay man may indeed say he is "like a woman," but he doesn't take the next step and claim he IS a woman. But why not?
It's not just being "like" a woman that makes us transsexual... there's some extra step, some other ingredient that I just cannot pinpoint.
I would say that the 250 lb TS is quite uncomfortable with presenting a masculine exterior whereas the gay man is probably quite happy with his. The TS feels that the masculine appearance/voice/mannerisms are a sort of mask designed to covers up her true identity out of fear.
Quote from: Kate on March 14, 2006, 03:24:15 PM
What's driving me crazy is trying to figure out why an effeminate gay man will still identify as a man, yet a 250 pound ex-marine might identify as a female inside (if a TS)?
The effeminate gay man may indeed say he is "like a woman," but he doesn't take the next step and claim he IS a woman. But why not?
It's not just being "like" a woman that makes us transsexual... there's some extra step, some other ingredient that I just cannot pinpoint.
"sense of self" perhaps?
Who I perceive myself to be is very definitely not my birth gender.
Quote from: umop ap!sdn...
The TS feels that the masculine appearance/voice/mannerisms are a sort of mask designed to covers up her true identity out of fear.
...
Also not all go the hyper masculine route out of fear; Some try their best to be what others want them to be, others try and prove they are men to themselves for instance.
I think as we are all to well aware, the best laid plans...
Maybe your trying to "over think" things Kate.
What in the world does weighing 250 pounds have to do with believing your a woman?
What does being gay have to do with you realizing that your a man and being happy with your body (or lesbian and knowing your a woman)?
Nothing to both.
Sarah L.
Quote from: Sarah Louise on March 15, 2006, 12:15:30 PM
Maybe your trying to "over think" things Kate.
What in the world does weighing 250 pounds have to do with believing your a woman?
What does being gay have to do with you realizing that your a man and being happy with your body (or lesbian and knowing your a woman)?
I was trying to paint the picture that an extremely masculine man (muscle-bound ex-marine) can still self-identify as a female, while an extremely feminine man (effeminate gay) can still self-identify as a male.
My conclusion being that simply being LIKE a woman doesn't create the feeling of BEING a woman. If it did, all effeminate men would be transsexuals - yet they're not. Posessing feminine traits does not necessarily create the feelings of being a woman.
So what then does it mean if I say, "I feel like a woman?" Without referencing feminine traits, it's seems to be an empty, meaningless claim. And yet if I do reference feminine traits, I've shown that many men have feminine traits, yet do not feel they ARE women, so that can't explain it.
I'm not necessarily arguing that the feeling isn't valid. I feel it myself, which is why it's so frustrating to me. It's this weird thing standing out there on it's own, independent of any support or external validation. I "feel like a woman," and yet it's not "because" of anything, and I can't tell you why or how I feel that way.
One time when I was talking with my Dad not too long after coming out, I was telling him how feminine I am and how a lot of my thought processes reflected a typical woman. He compared saying he is also feminine and that doesn't necessarily make me a woman. Then I pointed out that I also want to have a female body and that pretty much ended that debate, because he didn't want that himself.
Melissa
Quote from: Melissa on March 15, 2006, 12:57:16 PM
One time when I was talking with my Dad not too long after coming out, I was telling him how feminine I am and how a lot of my thought processes reflected a typical woman. He compared saying he is also feminine and that doesn't necessarily make me a woman. Then I pointed out that I also want to have a female body and that pretty much ended that debate, because he didn't want that himself.
LOL, yup, that's pretty much it, isn't it?
There's a passage in Jennifer Boylan's book, "She's Not There" which kinda opened my eyes. She said something like, "It's not about being feminine, it's about being female."
That perfectly described the feelings I've been struggling with. It also scared the heck out of me, as I realized why physical transition (to whatever degree) is the only solution for my angst. Crossdressing, "expressing my feminine side," and so on are all wonderful outlets for femininity, but do nothing to make me female.
Quote from: Kate on March 15, 2006, 12:35:31 PM
My conclusion being that simply being LIKE a woman doesn't create the feeling of BEING a woman. If it did, all effeminate men would be transsexuals - yet they're not. Posessing feminine traits does not necessarily create the feelings of being a woman.
You are confusing gender with gender role. They are men, like that particular organ, and like to be with men with the same equiptment.
I'm not sure this topic has an satisfactory answer. Before transition, I often thought I felt like a woman but based on what? I didn't know. During my transition (RLT), I thought more frequently that I felt like a woman and since I was living as a woman, this seemed more valid but still, I realized this was a conscious thought. I doubted women often thought much about "feeling like women". I consider feeling feminine a separate issue in that feeling feminine is not necessarily equivalent to feeling like a woman. My female presentation isn't terribly feminine, as is true for many women, and has nothing to do with my sense of being female.
Now, I am a woman and I don't think much about feeling like a woman. My transition certainly isn't complete and perhaps it never will be--"One is not born a woman, one becomes one"--and all that, but I'm rather happy that I no longer ponder this question very much.
Dawn
I can't really describe how I'm feminine. One thing that I've realized for sure is that I don't really find woman sexually attractive to me. Also I've realized I'm sensitive and seem to cry easily.
but it's really hard to describe, and I probably couldn't answer it if somebody asked me. I'm just female, and that's all I can really say.
Well, I need to make a first post somewhere. This seems to be about as good a thread as any!
I'm male, as far as the world knows outside of a few people online. Subtract the A you have my real name. I've teetered if I ever do have SRS, about what to name myself. It's not the prettiest in my opinion. But it's probably appropriate since it is so close to my given name.
I'm not as far as most of you - I have only told one person, a gay friend whom someone outted to me in front of him, and shouldn't have. So after we were alone I came out that I'm transgender (Or whatever the right term is) to him to try and make it a bit less awkward for him. At least it worked! I've never even had therapy of any sort, but have only just started looking into it. I think I'm at the point that I need to. I'm 23 - 24 in June. And realizing I need to find out who I am. I need to find out so I can find a place in life. Will this lead to HRT, and ultimately SRS? I don't know. Maybe. I've got some major anxiety, but maybe talking about it will change things. The biggest I have is that even if I get the change, I'll never be able to bear children or have periods (Oddly, how many biological woman probably think I'm nuts for that latter one? But to me it seems a part of the package). So another part of the anxiety is to have most of the package of what I know I am, or to be whole as something else. But anyways, that's not the discussion at hand.
But anyways, feeling like a woman?
To me... It's just sort of something there. Something that I know is right. An image. A feeling of what I am is wrong. In the end, I don't think I'll be different. Man, Woman? It's all human, in the end there is no real difference. But the cultural, and biological roles are things I see myself as being much more comfortable with. Things I can accept, and even be happy with. Rather than like I am now, male and depressed. There is importance to what you're perceived as, and to how you perceive yourself being what you are. Especially if it makes you happy about yourself. So that's my answer. Being female is something to me. It's a feeling that I am right. A feeling of the external matching the internal to lead to a whole sense of wellbeing.
I don't think that there is the 'feel like a woman' aspect to it, I feel that our brains tell us what we are, so that we know instinctively what we are, or should be etc.
If your brain is telling you, as it were, that you're a woman, and you're in a man's body, then the conflict is created between your gender, decided by the brain, and your sex, decided by your genitalia.
Anyway that's the way I think it all works!
He best way to describe "feeling like a woman" is that, when I present as Chaunte, my sence of self rings true. THere is a harmony within.
I would also say that this is true for "Feeling like a man." It's not being macho or tough or anything else that is used to describe males. It's a congruity between exterior and interior.
Chaunte
A variation on this question is, "Why do you want to be a woman (or a man for our FTM brothers)?"
For the longest time in y transition I'd tell people I could and would answer any question but one. That was the 'why' question.
Eventually, the answer came to me. Perhaps it is an answer that will resonate with others.
Why did I become a woman? To be true to myself!
Robyn
Quote from: reikirobyn on April 09, 2006, 06:15:53 PM
...
For the longest time in y transition I'd tell people I could and would answer any question but one. That was the 'why' question.
Eventually, the answer came to me. Perhaps it is an answer that will resonate with others.
Why did I become a woman? To be true to myself!
Robyn
For myself I didn't "
become" a woman as I already was one. I just knew that being a man didn't "
become me" :)
Steph
Ok, I saw in another post that Steph had mentioned this post and I had some stuff to add to it.
Now that I have been on HRT for some time, I am now feeling more like a woman (female mannerisms come naturally, etc.), but before, I felt like I should have been a woman. There's a very subtle distinction between the two.
I never felt like a man, everything about it was awkward. I never made love like a man, I never walked like a man, I never talked like a man and many other things I never did that men do. When I came out of denial, I told people that I felt like a woman, but now I realize a more accurate statement would have been "I feel like I should have been born with the body of a woman". Acclimating to the female social role has come very easy and naturally for me; much more natural than in the male social role. My transition has been going quite fast at this point and I already blend very well.
Now I don't try to be female, I just be myself. All the other stuff comes naturally. I've even always had woman's intuition. That's one of the lessons I learned so far in transition. I was always hearing stuff about "learning to walk like a woman", "learning to have mannerisms like a woman", "learning to talk like a woman". I soon came to realize that this stuff was for cross-dressers and drag queens, since they still are men. For me it is easy, "just be myself". That has helped me along more than anything else.
During the day, I still have to present as male, but I don't even bother acting like one and people unconsciously treat me the same as when I'm not presenting as male. This leads me to forget that I'm still presenting as male quite often. I'm sure getting called ma'am occasionally just exacerbates that ;D.
Now my interests are a bit different. I like a variety of things and some are considered masculine and some are considered feminine. However, that doesn't mean I need to give up any interests in the interest of transitioning. I don't care what people think. I was talking to this one guy (while out as female) and I'm pretty sure he never knew I was TS. Anyway, he was "interested" in me and I was telling him some of my interests and accomplishments and I think he was a bit surprised how much I knew. I will not be held in a box and I feel that by me not allowing myself to be place in a box, it helps other woman not feel subjected to being placed in that box either.
So, my point is, it's not whether you "feel like a woman" or not, it's which role you feel is more comfortable for you. Remember, to just be yourself.
Melissa
Oh oh! the why question, huh? I think there is not a definite answer to this question. It's just like asking "why is the sky blue?" If you ask several natal females what it means to feel like a woman, chances are you are going to get the same answer: I DON'T KNOW, I JUST KNOW I AM.
So given this, I am going to answer "I don't know how a woman feels". Probably the question should be rephrased to "how do you know you are a woman?" If this were the question, I would answer: I know that I am a woman because my inner conviction of who I am tells me so. :)
tinkerbell
I find myself wearing pantyhose, bras, skirts, lipstick, highheels, blouces, powdering myface, fake boobs, and putting on effininite smells. I am in this condition all the time when I am home. When I go out except work, I wear women,s jeans, bra-no boobs have none naturally, and no make-up. I feel like the clothes I wear. Its me.
I don't see most men doing these things. Then the question becomes, how do I relate this to others. It becomes a matter of words. What words am I comfortable with talking about me. This doesn't feel male. Constantly in my mined I say to myself I am a woman. Nothing within me rejects this idea. I have grown up in rural communities of the Dakotas and been exposed to women's emotional and social roles there. I lived on the Navajo reservation and been exposed to women's emotional and social roles there. Now I am in southern eastern city and have been exposed women's emotional and social roles in black communities. Working in the schools I have been envolved with women's emotional and social states from the ages of 5 to 70 in all of all these communities.
I have observed that there is a wide range of what womanhood is. I am sure that I am somewhere within that range. Some butch some effrminite. My sister finally accepts me as her sister. I am sure that everyone of us fits somewhere within that range of womanhood.
We just have to flesh out what that means for our personalities. Women's personality expression varies greatly. I just have to allow myself that variety of expression and not try to be to much Clamity Jane who lies buried in my birth place or Lonnie Anderson.
That's just what I think,
So long girls, Hope this makes some sense.
Quote from: Valerie on March 08, 2006, 09:50:14 AM
Very engaging question, Leigh. I look forward to seeing all the responses to this. To be quite honest, I have no idea what 'makes' me 'feel' like a girl. I know I love being a girl, yet I can't really pinpoint the why of it... it just feels right...whole...proper...me.
Valerie
I've had this question asked to me quite sometimes, and i have answered in the same manner..
My parents didn't buy it but it stopped them when they ask..