Susan's Place Transgender Resources

redacted

i barely pass as male and have never taken hormones, quite strange isn't it?



Mickie

Well, Keira, at 4 months, I could enter busy mall restrooms without women
being traumatized or even turning around and hang the sink to wash my hand.
So, it does happen.

It all depends on your starting point.  If you start out looking like David Beckham, there's never going to be a point (maybe short of FFS) that you can't pass as male, especially, as you say, if one is trying to.

For me, personally, I would have a hard time passing as male now after a year of HRT.  But, it depends; for example, 3 months ago I got "sirred" after having electrolysis (my face being red/bumpy on the beard area).  And then, a week later, the same teller "missed" me without makeup but no electrolysis redness either.  So, things can change depending on perception, even with the same person.

Lia

I took me about six months.  You will know when people start giving you the hairy look in the restroom of your birth sex ;)

tink :icon_chick:

hi... can i say .  o dear how old are you . that is were we start i am 60 on homones  3 1/2  years ago so what do you say   & srs & b a h r t  has made some nice changes to my face softened it .  not  changed it  hair down to say 35 % .  face hair about 40 %  maybe less .     body hair 25 % so over all i am pleased with the result all so with the help on my  body i use  a epilater . i shave my face in the morning & go to about 7 in the evening .   no laser i did try    not any more . i pass & i thought i would not .theres more to being female than just looks  o well thats me just to give you an idear ....noeleena....

I said 3-6 months because I passed all the time as female within 6 months. But I did use women's restrooms after only 3-4 months with no problem. With a coat on, I passed at 2 weeks *before* HRT. The deciding factor seemed to be my breasts, so yeah I'm even more self-conscious knowing that, about my breast size, even though it doesnt make me 'not pass' anymore.

I'm dragging my feet pretty dang hard with HRT, but I still don't think there's any way I could pass right now at like my 5 month mark. 
Maybe I'm just one of those young people that estrogen hates, or maybe I'm just too scared hence my feet dragging, one of the two maybe :P 

Quotehowever, i am the most cynical of doubters.

Don't worry, me too :D

Quote from: shanetastic on January 26, 2008, 02:45:31 AM
I'm dragging my feet pretty dang hard with HRT, but I still don't think there's any way I could pass right now at like my 5 month mark. 
Maybe I'm just one of those young people that estrogen hates, or maybe I'm just too scared hence my feet dragging, one of the two maybe :P 

Quotehowever, i am the most cynical of doubters.

Don't worry, me too :D

Well its been over a year, and now I pass, so don't worry, give it time. What is it, 5 years for what will change to change maximum? You have time. ;)

Shane, often you think you don't pass when you in fact do!
Its hard to see it yourself.
Ask somebody impartial, a friend who's only known
you recently is best, to give you feedback.

id say 6 months or more, DEPENDING on age... and receptability etc... some wont ever pass, with a lifetime of hrt... its not magic...
personally, i got treated like a bad f2m when i went to my grandmothers funeral after 9 months hrt, in a mens suit... i got treated MORE female by malicious people who thought i wanted to be a man! :D
R >:D

6 months as well. I just think, as I have told you, that you are gonna be very surprised when you find you no longer 'pass' as a male.

But, as Rach says, it's different for different people. You may surprise me.

N~

when your're still presenting as male and using the mens room and start getting weird stares, and people do double takes when walking in to make sure that their in the right restroom.  Thats when it gets interesting.  This started happening quite frequently at about 6 months for me.  I went full time at about 9 months.

Audrey

Quote from: genovais on January 25, 2008, 05:55:39 PM
It all depends on your starting point.  If you start out looking like David Beckham, there's never going to be a point (maybe short of FFS) that you can't pass as male, especially, as you say, if one is trying to.

For me, personally, I would have a hard time passing as male now after a year of HRT.  But, it depends; for example, 3 months ago I got "sirred" after having electrolysis (my face being red/bumpy on the beard area).  And then, a week later, the same teller "missed" me without makeup but no electrolysis redness either.  So, things can change depending on perception, even with the same person.

Lia

Exactly, it depends on the person. Pre-HRT, I could get away with, say, going to a public washroom. I won't say that I "passed" all the time, but a lot of the time if I put forth some effort. I looked pretty androgynous back then. I started full-time and HRT at the same time (before that I was most-of-the-time for a little while). I also went out and got a job 2 weeks after HRT/Full-time as myself. I worked at a convenience store, so I got to see a lot of people all day. I got maybe a couple of people a week who'd ask me if I was a girl or a boy, etc.

Now, it happens pretty rarely. So, over time, it just gets better and better.

--natalie

four months but i never had very masculine features anyway..so that's probably why.

i had the 'are you a boy or a girl?' stuff from about 3 months to 6! i was binding between then when i worked at the bar before going ft so i looked like a flat chested androish female >< i really messed with some heads :P
my fav reply was 'yes' that really confused people... hey, if you cant laugh at yourself, then who can you?
R >:D

QuoteIt's like "if you keep this HRT thing up Ms Ashley your male life will one day be totally eradicated and gone forever" . . . in spite of whatever you decide and do?

I wonder if there ever was a male life to start with. If they mean legally, then true, if they mean socially then it doesn't sound right.

some do have male lives....
R :police:

Quote from: Kiera on January 27, 2008, 06:19:20 AM

Quote from: genovais on January 25, 2008, 05:55:39 PM
It all depends on your starting point.  If you start out looking like David Beckham, there's never going to be a point (maybe short of FFS) that you can't pass as male, especially, as you say, if one is trying to.

genovais, it looks like you are the only other one who has got the topic of this admittedly rather backward sounding thread correct. I salute your ability to read . . . funny how topics can take on a life all their own and Ashley, where are you when we truly need you?

Um yeah we got the point of the thread thank you very much.  And yes I can read.

I guess this would depend on person to person...

Sometimes HRT can be overwhelming and can change plans to go Fulltime...
Sometimes HRT may seem slow but trust your gut- it's working and you should let it do it's job....

And yes some people are doomed not to pass easily...but if they put some belief in themselves miracles can happen because miracless happen to normal people all the time and they can creep in when you least expect it...be careful what you wish for because many times in my life it came true...no joke  :-\

Quote from: Ashley Michelle on January 26, 2008, 10:42:09 AM
i'm surprised only two other people consider me flawed.

i suppose i should have let it allow a vote in more than one category....

the fact that you are fun, thoughtful, funny, and charming kinda prevented you from getting that vote...

-ellie

hah you're right... it forced me ft before i was planning to :P
R

um, what else IS it MEANT to be? :P


and another side of hrt, is not just physical passing, but behavioral and vocal... i was starting to pass as female when in boy mode after around 4 months... i stopped passing at about 6.... i really cant look like a boy anymore, and i DID try at my grans funeral :(


Kiera:'i pass' topics are part of the online trans community.... deal with it.
R :police:

Quote from: Kiera on February 01, 2008, 03:42:43 AM

Quote from: Audrey on January 27, 2008, 12:09:11 PMUm yeah we got the point of the thread thank you very much.  And yes I can read.

All I am saying Audrey is this thread appears to have turned into another childish "I pass" discussion when I think the point is what if one's life circumstances dictate one day that I must turn back to being one's former self, whatever the reasons should be? For some of us our life is not wholly our own to do as we please.

Could You Indeed Do That?  :icon_bunch:

Never would have even tried to go back, even back then when I could still pass as a boy. Now it would be pretty hard. Whatever happened, even if God himsdelf ordered me to be a boy I would not comply.

I was watching a youtube vid the other night by a youngish MtF who's been on HRT for about four months now, and she passes VERY well. Problem is, she has lost her job, and so she made a video on long term consequences and planning for them and stuff, and one of the topics she did bring up was "so do I cut my hair, dig out my old clothes and go job-hunting? Can I?"

I'll be in a similar position come August when I head back to South Africa and I have to look for a job again, so it's an important question. Aside from the health risks, this is the main reason I have resisted the temptation to start Oestrogen in addition to the Anti-Androgens I'm already on. That resolve gets weaker every day though, so I might end up a case study...

Quote from: Schala on February 01, 2008, 11:21:31 AM
Whatever happened, even if God himself ordered me to be a boy I would not comply.

Up on the Gallery,
God shouting down at me:
Something I cannot be.

-Tristiana, Tender Trip on Earth

Quote from: Kiera on February 01, 2008, 03:42:43 AM

Quote from: Audrey on January 27, 2008, 12:09:11 PMUm yeah we got the point of the thread thank you very much.  And yes I can read.

All I am saying Audrey is this thread appears to have turned into another childish "I pass" discussion when I think the point is what if one's life circumstances dictate one day that I must turn back to being one's former self, whatever the reasons should be? For some of us our life is not wholly our own to do as we please.

Could You Indeed Do That?  :icon_bunch:

I realize that everyones situation is different and the circumstances around their lives can be complex.  It seems that the average TG, TS, etc. runs into alot of BS while transistioning, with family, jobs, relationships etc.  But isn't the whole point of making the transistion to be happy with yourself and to be able to live your life? 

So having to go backwards, after going through all that BS with the outside world, would mean to me that I totally wasted my time and energy on trying to transistion.  For me its a one way street.  There is NO going back. 

I don't feel that transistioning has put me at a disadvantage in life, however detransistioning would destroy my life.  If people saw me presenting as a male many would be upset and angry.  It has been hard enough for people to get used to the female me and I think that many had to make their own mental and moral compromises for them to accept me as female, at first.  Doing a 180 would make people angry that they ever accepted me as female.

Not to mention it would ruin my credebility in any future circumstances.  For example getting a job, "OK, lets see here, your previous names used have been: John, then lacy, and now Bob???????"  "WHoOa this person can't make up their mind, how do I know that they even want to work here???"

So basically my past has to go, forever, to not jeoperdize my future.

Audrey

P.S.  It seems that most people want to do away with the "gatekeeper" concept.  However, for this reason, maybe just maybe it is more important than most people think.

Quote from: Audrey on February 01, 2008, 12:18:01 PM
So having to go backwards, after going through all that BS with the outside world, would mean to me that I totally wasted my time and energy on trying to transistion.  For me its a one way street.  There is NO going back.

...

It has been hard enough for people to get used to the female me and I think that many had to make their own mental and moral compromises for them to accept me as female, at first.  Doing a 180 would make people angry that they ever accepted me as female.

Not to mention it would ruin my credebility in any future circumstances.  For example getting a job, "OK, lets see here, your previous names used have been: John, then lacy, and now Bob???????"  "WHoOa this person can't make up their mind, how do I know that they even want to work here???"

That's basically how I feel about it too, which is why I want to make sure I'm reasonably secure. It needs to happen soon now though. Waiting drives people crazy... I can believe that.

bingo... too many transition so fast they cant decide whats best for them... zomg i feel leik womanz, next day, srs... too many brag that they went ft instantly.... then again, not everyone has known all thier life. So i can understand uncertainty....

Yeah, ft came too fast for me, but im comfortable and happy now....  because it was right. Life post transition is meant to be better, why else bloody do it?
R

5 months. I was in the men's room sans makeup and this guy came, looked at me, apologized and ran out. He assumed he was in wrong bathroom. Pretty funny actually. But I realized I had to give the boy stuff for good.

If you go FT late or early, it's all for the best  ;)

too soon can destroy confidence...
R :police:

^ Yea agree- people may ridicule you if your not ready and try to put you down. That's exactly why I'm taking it progressively.

Day one.  After I swallowed my first hormone tablet, flowers started blooming and doves and butterflies fluttered about.  It was on that day I turned down the Prince's proposal and said I wanted a career rather than be his wife.





   

Quote from: genovais on January 25, 2008, 05:55:39 PM
It all depends on your starting point.  If you start out looking like David Beckham, there's never going to be a point (maybe short of FFS) that you can't pass as male, especially, as you say, if one is trying to.

For me, personally, I would have a hard time passing as male now after a year of HRT.  But, it depends; for example, 3 months ago I got "sirred" after having electrolysis (my face being red/bumpy on the beard area).  And then, a week later, the same teller "missed" me without makeup but no electrolysis redness either.  So, things can change depending on perception, even with the same person.

Lia

David Beckham's pretty girly when his face is shaved.
And have you heard him speak?
Very high pitched voice.

I think he could definitely pass on hrt  :D ;)
Just my thoughts,
Sara

um, what?
girly?
hes uber manly aside from being metro!
there is no WAY he would pass... hes hot, and my type, ie, not a feminine looking male....
hes way too square and robust looking...



plus passing, lets not forget, isnt all looks... and hrt does more than change your physical apearance.
R >:D

Rachael,
Beckam's face is very feminine, same thing with Timberlake, Pitt, Damon,
DiCaprio, most men that are seen as beautiful have delicate features.

If you remove their muscle mass with T, and E puts a bit more roundness,
you'd be very surprised how they'd look.

Of course, probably they'd still act male because they're not TS.
But, where talking about forced feminisation here :-).
There is a whole part of fiction about forcefully feminising men
and then they find out their inner MTF TS.

hmm i doubt it, they look as masculine as it comes, thier not seen as beautiful, thier seen as handsome....
guys like decaprio possibly, but hes  cute, not hot...


lets not even go NEAR femdom forced transformation stuff... that kind of literature weirds me out...
R >:D

^ wtf? lol forced transformation...odd

Quote from: Keira on February 04, 2008, 03:45:30 AM

Beckam's face is very feminine, same thing with Timberlake, Pitt, Damon,
DiCaprio, most men that are seen as beautiful have delicate features.

If you remove their muscle mass with T, and E puts a bit more roundness,
you'd be very surprised how they'd look.

I'm not sure that I agree.  Yes, DiCaprio, when he was younger, especially, was very girly looking.  But having feminine features and being passable are two totally different things; yes, Pitt has definitely got a nice, "purty mouth."  But passable?  I don't think so.  And as for Beckham, can anyone point out what is feminine about his face/posture/build/anything?  I think he'd have a very hard time.

Please find attached eye candy.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftowleroad.typepad.com%2Fphotos%2Funcategorized%2F2008%2F02%2F04%2Fbeckhampuppies_3.jpg&hash=f2021f19754a0132ac7decee9980771ad20e67d6)

It has to do with Jaw height and jaw angle. Nose width, bossing, mouth, hairline.
All hollywood leading men have measures that are in the female range.
The reason is simple, beauty is not gender based.
What is considered beautiful in a man and a women's face is very similar.
If you look at most male models, you'll see what I mean.
Their face is barely different from female models.
There is almost no men in entertainment with a really average manly faces.
With HRT, I bet all of them would look very very girly very quickly.


Most of Beckham's manlyness comes from his muscle mass, just like Pitt.
When I trained hard in my early 20's, I looked very muscular and manly
yet my face hasn't changed.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi111.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn125%2FBelladonna_06%2Fmeme%2Falien.gif&hash=14b32a9298ace033f0b835ee0da0421430523525)
prefer a cat in his tummy? :P


Nah, beckam couldnt pass as female, ive drooled over him way too many times, and hes far too much my type, and that isnt remotely feminine.... K, sorry, but he couldnt, he would look like a dude in a dress... which he has done :P
hes so macho, masculine looking and male he can get away with it and still be hot :P

R >:D

Quote from: Rachael on February 05, 2008, 05:27:30 AM
hes so macho, masculine looking and male he can get away with it and still be hot :P

Sorry hon, but I'm gonna have to disagree with ya. In my opinion, he's about as hot as three-day old pizza. Now Clive Owen ... there's a real man. *sigh*

Posted on: 05 February 2008, 07:43:42

---

Pierce Brosnan ... Vin Diesel ...

Damn. I need to stop sighing and laughing at the chest-bursting cat-puppet. I'm at work. Stop posting this stuff!  :P

vin yes, OMFG.... im waiting for keira to tell me that Mr Deisel is actually really feminine... *cough*

Anyway, youd never turn beckham down :P
hes studly, rich, and malleable... what more do you want? :P

R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on February 05, 2008, 07:58:52 AM
vin yes, OMFG.... im waiting for keira to tell me that Mr Deisel is actually really feminine... *cough*

Anyway, youd never turn beckham down :P
hes studly, rich, and malleable... what more do you want? :P

R :police:

I don't know, he just seems very superficial to me, and as far as studliness goes, he is just too ... clean. I suppose I like the "rougher around the edges", yet thoughtful and sensitive kinda guy.

As to mister Diesel ... okay, ya got me there ... I too struggle to see his more feminine edges. (And I really looked!  ::) )

clean? you mean he washes? thats fine with me! plus he does designer stubble.... WIN!
R >:D

While on the subject of Vin Diesel, rumours are flying that he'll be the T800 in the new Terminator flick, opposite Christian Bale (Weak knees ... no power ... cannot stand) as John Connor.

Posted on: 05 February 2008, 10:55:48

---

Oh, and finally, sorry everybody for turning this into a "perv after boys fest". Will return to subject now:

David Beckham, along with probably every other professional footbal star, could pass with a bit of HRT. The same can probably not be said for the majority of rugby players though...  ;D

hehe agreeed in that hypothetical sense! :D
R >:D

Quote from: redfish on February 05, 2008, 11:49:00 AM
Thread title should be changed to Gender Bend it Like Beckham

:eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap:

that needs to be a film.... BADLY....
R >:D

I really don't know. 
I went full time after a little over three months of HRT, and well...I never get sir'd.

The truth is I did not really transition in boy mode, so I have no clue if I would even pass as a boy at this point.  I was pretty much androgynous enough to pass as both when I went full time, and my body was pretty much feminine when I did so.  Why would I want to go back to living that lie when I am pretty happy where I am now. 

So it really only reflects one way you can transition.  I did part time for about a month, and well got really confused and shortly there after went full time.   

da, i got many 'is that a boy or a girl?'s before  transitioned, well, before going ft (which i count as transitioning)
R >:D