"True love is neither physical, nor romantic. True love is an
acceptance of all that is, has been, will be, and will not be."
It's a enormouse undertaking. Am I able to meet it's needs? I hope so, I try to be.
Smiles,
Peggiann
True love is to love the soul of the person... every single fiber of their existance.
My definition?
I learned this many years ago and I still think it's true:
True love is letting a person be exactly who they are and allowing them not to be exactly who they're not.
By this definition, you can love every one and every thing. :)
Of course, my beliefs, attitudes and judgements get in the way and that makes it very difficult sometimes to get to the love.
Still working on that . . . .
helen
Wow Peggiann! You have the HARDEST questions to answer! :o Hmmmm....I feel that everyone's take on true love is pretty good, I don't know if I can actually define it. But what it means to me is that if you truly love someone you will do the right thing for their sake, even if it's the most difficult thing for either or both of you to do. It's like the old saying "If you love something, set it free. If it returns to you, it was meant to be." Do we (as in all of us) have what it takes? I guess we can only hope. Each trial we go through in life seems overwhelming at the time, but each time that we pull through we're made stronger for it. I really believe in that. Will there come a situation that will absolutely break us? Only time will tell...and none of us have enough time to be worrying about that! Take heart, Peggiann, you've come this far and your still putting words together coherently! When you start babbling is when I'll start worrying! *hugs*
As Shakespeare said: "Love is not love which alters when it alteration finds."
Mine did, guess it wasn't.
Dennis
True Love is not something one can easily define, but you know you have it when you weigh the consiquences of ever thing you do as to how it will effect a particular person and thier own quest for peace.
There are times when it is better to take the hurt yourself then to pass it on to someone else, whatever anyone else would call it, I call that an indication of love even if you can't recognise it as such.
Terri Gene
True love is when you find out your spouse is transsexual and it doesn't change anything between you love-wise.
Melissa
Ironically, this is the full sonnet, which was read at my wedding (at my request, by my friend to my spouse):
Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come:
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.
Aside from the apparently gendered reference in the last line, it seems to fit this topic. And I had no idea that I was going to transition at the time I got married.
Dennis
We could get all lyrical and quote a million poems and songs, but I believe that true love is looking into the soul of another, past their faults and shortcomings and choosing to love them anyway.
Hi Peggiann,
I told my ex when I was living with her that "love is acceptance." She left but, even though she is now happily remarried, we still watch out for one another and, in our own way, love one another. When a parent tells their kid, "Don't do that," there is still love -- some would argue that the parent is SHOWING that love by disagreeing with the kid's decision. It is in that manner that I think my ex tried to fight my transition -- she was trying to protect someone she loved.
I agree with your more complete version of my "love is acceptance" saying: "True love is an acceptance of all that is, has been, will be, and will not be." A parent or spouse can ACCEPT (but not necessarily agree with) what we do, in transitioning. In an ideal world, it would be great if we all agreed with one another. But that's not possible. Accepting something you disagree with is the ultimate form of giving love.
Teri Anne
Love is understanding, and being there for each other. Love is when two people learn to understand each other and support each other all the way. When two people care about each other and think of "we" and not "I". love is when you look pass the way the person from outside and see the person for who they really are.
To me, I agree the definition of true love is a combination of total and complete acceptance of all that is, has been, will be and what will not be, (both physically and emotionally), but it also includes mutual trust between two partners. Without mutual trust in a relationship there can never be true love. You will know in your heart what true love really is when you find yourself constantly discovering new things about your partner and it never gets old.
Shannon
Hi, Shannon,
The only problem with including "mutual trust" as a necessity to true love is the dilemma we all face when pre-transitioning with people we love. Upon telling them our dark secret that we are transsexual, they are shocked and ask, "How can I trust you when you can keep a secret like that from me for years?" And they're right. But it, of course, dismisses the "mitigating circumstances." They're ignoring the fact that transitioning in our society carries a huge stigma and dangers -- we don't tell them because we're VERY fearful. Who's right? It's one of those grey areas where both sides are right, in my opinion.
Shannon - you're right: Ideally, you want both honesty and acceptance (not approval) in a relationship. But it's hard to be honest (when society thinks you're a joke) and it's hard to accept something out of the social norm.
Teri Anne
it hard to tell the one we love about the change. However, if they love us sure they will accept it. It just people are afraid and so unsure of what is right or wrong. People dont understand untill they go through the same process. Like one of my friend say " no matter what, everyone need love" and love is everything from accept to care to be there and even spend a life time together. there is so many way to define what is love. The event in our life is what will test the love between two people. sure people can say "i love you" but when things change will it be the same? ofcourse not, right. If we are to be afraid forever then what is love. The people who love us are the one who always there for us.
Ummm! Some really great feedback. Thanks! I'm digesting it all.
I agree born2learn, "People dont understand untill they go through the same process."
I have often said one can not truely understand untill they take off thier own shoes and socks and put on those of anothers and walk in them for a while to get the full benifit of what life must be like for that individual.(no matter what the issues are.
Does one have to understand to completely accept though? I wonder?
Smiles,
Peggiann
Hi Terri Anne,
You're absolutely right and I agreee. Its not fair how society places our kind out of the social norm. Its historically been society's own way of dealing with something it does not completely understand.
As far as relationships are concerned, I still look at mutual trust as being an agreement between two partners that there are certain boundaries within the relationship that are never to be crossed. I still believe it plays a very strong part in true love.
Sadly, in many relationships early on, ->-bleeped-<- is rarely ever brought up because, as you mentioned, there are dangers associated with it and the stigma that society puts on it often forces a person to place it into the closet due to those fears. When it finally manifests itself later in the relationship when the person decides to finally transition, thats usually when its realized by their partner that the mutual trust boundary has been breached, even though technically speaking, the boundary was already breached much earlier in the relationship mainly because it was never brought up in the first place, but instead put in the closet. Its no wonder partners feel betrayed. The only things our kind can hope for once its all out of the closet are reconciliation, understanding, acceptance and total honesty between our partners and ourselves. The sad part is as you mentioned, "it's hard to be honest (when society thinks you're a joke) and it's hard to accept something out of the social norm." This is so true.
Shannon
well sometime it take a person to accept is to be in another person shoe. Let say if a person seen a ghost and tell the story to a person never seen one will that other person between and agree to the story? ofcourse not until they themself see it too. I think maybe we need time for other to accept. It's funny when i was in school we learn about people being xxy where people who are male with female body and female with male body part or look. I think cause the percentage of these people are born is so low that people just shock when they think why people would change gender.
Most people can't understand why people change gender because they feel it is wrong cause god give us the gender and we go change it. Most women would want to have a guy that give her a child. Being change gender sure can't give her a child yet. The same go for transgender women. To tell the true it just depend on the people you are with. If they not willing to accept no point to push. If they willing to accept then great.
I wonder are we changing gender for ourself or for other? if it is for ourself why it is that we need to push other to accept us. if they dont accept then we shouldnt be with them. It is true what people say if we accept ourself then people sometime more willing to accept us for who we are.
Does it mean that one does not love enough if able accept and is supportive but can not stay in the relationship? I think not . Remember one must be fair, firm and friendly to ones self as well as to ones partner. I think it's ok to say "it's ok for you to be what ever and whom ever you need to be and I need what I need too." We can till be close and helpful and sharing even if not in same relationship for one another regardless if it is for issues of TG or what ever they are for. Isn't it loving to let the other be free to live totally as they wish or need for their own sake? I think yes.
Many beleive marriage is forever. I am one of them. One of the, "till death do us part", believers. Does this mean when you can't live any longer as man and wife you have to devorce. No ...not really. I'm mean you can be married still but live in different homes. You can still be there to support each others paths taken but still not loss sight of ones own needs for healthy sake. Love is not only given in partner relationships. I have many people in my life I love. I don't judge them, or smoother them, or demand of them to be a certain way.
Someone said you want both honesty and approval in a relationship. Ummm...
Let me put this out there. Ones has a small child whom has a tendacy to stretch his/her stories to make them more important or for what ever. This child never gets over the stretching and grows to an adult still telling whoppers. You loved your child even though they weren't honest you may not have approved but you still loved them. Even now that they have grown you love them. One becomes able to accept and over look as time marches on in life and love is a wonderful cord of love still allows one to be there for the other so what is this thing called love? Ah there is that thing "time" born2learn mention too.
The mystries of what is love? What has bearing on if one is able to love are endless and ablilty to continue in love have just as many twists and turns as life itself. I posed the question, "What is true love?" Some of you have spoke as if it has a time frame. I wonder does it have an end? How about a starting point, how about a degree of depth or shallowness? Are they all not a genuine and true love? What of parental love, or love for ones sibling? Love for ones pet or of nature? Have we been using the wrong word for such actions and emotions? Oh my goodness then there is the love of one own self.
Pondering,
Peggiann
Love of oneself. There is a saying, a truism for some, that one cannot love another if one doesn't love himself/herself. I think that goes to feelings of selfworth. Am I worthy of loving you if I don't love/respect myself?
Another thing I was told when my ex and I were going through the process of parting is that people stay together for as long as they have things to learn in/from the relationship. I can see that point, but my ex and I learned many things still in the early years of our separation. I think we still learn from each other when we meet- usually with one of our daughters - about once every 18 months. It will be shorter this time. My husband and I had lunch at her home with my long lost daughter in December and should meet again later this month at the 100th birthday of a friend.
Those couples who do stay together through transition are twice blessed, IMHO. It isn't easy but those who do learn a lot about caring for thermselves and caring for their loved one(s). It takes a lot of work and a willingness to 'rush slowly.'
Robyn
Im not sure how to a person with relationship that transgender would go through cause i never start a relationship with anyone till i know for sure who im. Now that i go to change i want to start a relationship so it a new start for me. So far me and my gf doing great. ofcourse i feel very lucky to have someone very understand to support and love me the way she did.
Hi Peggiann,
Yes, I agree that there are all kinds of "true love." I don't wish to infer that "true love" is only between spouses. Mothers and fathers who have died so their children can live is just one example.
But it's hard to draw boundaries on what makes up "true love." I can imagine a situation where a father is disgusted with his M2F "son" and yet, would rush into a burning building to save the "son." As good writers often point out, life is not black and white but is made up of a lot of shades of grey -- We all do the best we can in loving people we love.
In order to determine whether a friend loves me with "true love," I generally think about things on a percentage basis. My best friend, for example, upsets me sometimes with her fits of sudden anger and depression. But since she is so wonderful to me and for me 99% of the time, I still define our close friendship as "true love." If one can have a "soulmate," for me, she is my "soulfriend."
Nothing is perfect, except maybe in fables.
Teri Anne
True love is to give happiness unconditionally even if this results in your own unhappiness.
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
Quote from: Peggiann on April 04, 2006, 09:55:37 AM
Many beleive marriage is forever. I am one of them. One of the, "till death do us part", believers. Does this mean when you can't live any longer as man and wife you have to devorce. No ...not really.
Let me put this out there. Ones has a small child whom has a tendacy to stretch his/her stories to make them more important or for what ever. This child never gets over the stretching and grows to an adult still telling whoppers. You loved your child even though they weren't honest you may not have approved but you still loved them.
The mystries of what is love? What has bearing on if one is able to love are endless and ablilty to continue in love have just as many twists and turns as life itself. I posed the question, "What is true love?"
Peggiann
please do not shoot the messanger:
I do not believe in "true love" or any kind of love or hyphenated love. I know that there is Love.
I used to get into the thing of "I hate you ... you betrayed me blah blah" One day I woke up and discovered that all I had done was cover love.
When I am in touch with the knowledge that we can't do other than love forgiveness was easy and natural and inherent byproduct, no struggle.
The hard part is being strong enough to be patient and tolerant and to Stay.
I do not date people that hate their exxes, bad bad news. When I date someone who still respect their love for their past amours my realtionships get better and better.
I think we confuse "true love" with "wise choices versus stupid choices" or considerate/inconsiderate choices.
Our minds is the only thing messes our joys. Heaven is quickly lost in the hell of the intellect.
Be well and happy, love no matter what, sheila
ladies and gentlemen of the forum....
I HAVE NO FRIGGIN CLUE!
Chynna
Way to go, Chynna! Don't be afraid to tell the truth!!! ;D
I'm pretty sure you could be a stand-up comedienne.
I don't feel like there is even a word left for love anymore since it is over used on material things (ex. i love that shirt!). when i say that i love my wife i don't feel like that's saying enough.
i think that true love is loving the person exactly how they have been, are and will be in the future unconditionally.
i believe you find true love when you give the hunt and let it come to you.
Quote from: angelsgirl on July 14, 2006, 06:27:26 PM
Way to go, Chynna! Don't be afraid to tell the truth!!! ;D
I'm pretty sure you could be a stand-up comedienne.
I completely 100% agree!!! Try out for "last comic standing"!
Tino
I think everyone's got it pretty well right... true love, in my opinion, is loving someone regardless of what they've done, what they do, and how they might change on the outside... true love pertains to the true person within, not what's on the outside.
It's a very rare thing, in my experience, and those of you who have it... hold onto that person with all your might.
Rafe
Quote from: angelsgirl on July 14, 2006, 06:27:26 PM
Way to go, Chynna! Don't be afraid to tell the truth!!! ;D
I'm pretty sure you could be a stand-up comedienne.
MMM.... The Transsexual comic.....Nah..... not my fortay im a behind the scenes sort of girl!
<grin> all kidding aside this is a very good question !
I think before you can realy LOVE another you must first learn to love yourself. for who you are ,for what you are , with all your faults and problems, Accepting yourself for who you are is one thing, but actually loveing yourself for who you are is another thing all togather. its Not mandentory by any means, but sure as hell makes your life alot easier !
I think Whitney Houstan made a song of that " the gratest love of all is inside of me " a spouce, can leave, die ,turn against you or what ever
but the love of yourself, accepting yourself is the first step of being truly whole. Nothing or anything can take that away from you.
Love is something you feel, it is Yours, you can give it to another or keep it for yourself, it is by far the most powerfull thing i have ever whitnessed
it is Mankinds best Quality, and best hope for the future.
True love starts from there.
...
Other than that I have no Frigging idea eather ! HAHAHAH!
my 2 coppers
Bob....
Quote from: Bob on July 19, 2006, 08:17:50 PM
I think before you can realy LOVE another you must first learn to love yourself.
That's exactly what I said in a different thread. Hey, that rhymed. :)
Melissa
To throw a serious comment in the pool for once from me!!! ;)
I Find LOVE a difficult concept to comprehend...
I seemed to be somewhat detached from my emotions when it comes to relationships...
which kicks azz when the other person pisses me off and its time to end the relationship. You know no sad period its just like oh well they come and go. unfortunantly that makes me the type of person to be in someones life for only a season...
I feel like im this sorta shooting star that flies across the sky burning really bright at first!!!...only to fall to earth and disappear...jeez im depressing myself!!!LOL
Anyways you get the concept..
So anyone else or should I just go see a therapist because im friggin crazy!!
But fun at parties and Fest!!HA HA :P ;D
Emotional detached
Chynna
Quote from: Chynna on July 20, 2006, 10:42:05 AM
To throw a serious comment in the pool for once from me!!! ;)
should I just go see a therapist because im friggin crazy!!
Chynna
Good question Chynna doll! A therapist won't do, what about something more
high maintenance, like electric shock therapy...LOL >:D got cha!
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
P.S. just in case, this is a game Chynna and I play...she won the last time and now I did!!!
Tag Im IT HUH!?!?!?!?!?!
LMAO
I love it sis
Ok Chynna I gott'a ask !
Why do you do that to yourself ? you are robbing yourself of the best life has to offer in so doing, well thats my opinion anyway... Yes it would help when breaking up there is no doubt there, but you are missing so very much that way!
instead of being a Shooting star , be a star that shines brighter than all the rest !. Love is not a dificult concept. but we hide from it sometimes out of fear. the fear of rejection being the strongest of them all in my opinion.
and it is a honnest fear, but that fear can make you miss out on so much.
I Once new a girl that Loved a friend of mine dearly, they eventually broke up and she was hart broken, that was bad enough , but the worst part about it was she pined for him to come back to her, for years this went on . I one day took her aside and said he is not comeing back to you ...you know that don't you ? (or in words to that effect, we were very good friends)
and she broke down in tears and said yes. I said Good ! now you can get over him, for get him and find some one new, a Month later she introuduced me to her new boy friend with the gleam in her eyes that she had for my Friend...
they married and moved away and i have never seen them sense.
but my point is for 2 years she tortured herself... passing many opertunities
for others ... its things like that that will Stunt your growth ! ( we were in school at the time)
I realise that some people prefure to be anominous in their relationships
with others, its self preservation kicking in and protecting yourself.
and if thats what you want and you like it, more power to ya ! but if your unhappy with it and want more out of life and relationships, then You can change it , learn to care, stop yourself from Not careing. thats a conditioned responce just as catching something thrown to you, you don't have to think about it , you just do it...
those kind of conditioned responces are hard to change, but alot easier if you realise You are doing it and not someone else !
Does this make sense ? or am i rambleing again ?
Bob.......
No, you're not rambling. I think that's good advice for anyone. Right now, when I start getting into a relationship, I kind of have a breaker inside of me that seems to trip and I end up finding myself trying to back out of a potential relationship. I think you hit on some good points as to why that may be. It's like I haven't healed and I find it difficult to invest my emotions in something that could be potentially disasterous. Maybe someday, I'll be able to remain in a relationship. :'(
Melissa
EXACTLY Milissia !
For now, Your still healing from the wounds so to speak, you can't expect to go running about as if nothing has happened ! Some of us simply start off Wounded
from day one.... I know exactly what you mean, its a combonation of what IF and self preservation down in the recesses of your mind that are keeping you from alowing yourself a good relationship.
And make no mistake it is YOU that is doing it... Don't blame it on the other person because thats simply not the case .
But for now Go about the motions, and act the part and when the wounds heal up completely you will be alot better off. though you may find that impossable to do and I wouldn't blame you one bit.
People I have known have a tennancy to Jump into relationships fast, and to heck with the consiquiences, but as you get older you get more cautious and don't do that as much....call it fear, aprehintion, or just plane Smart, the results are the same.
Life teaches you what to do and what not to.... we go forth like a missel...
incountering one obstical after another, but like a missel we only know where not to go "after the fact".... when a Missel senses it is off the track it then turns its control fins in the direction that is on the track... we are much the same way, we operate by hind site...
it would be great if we new before hand what was going to happen in a relationship so we could aim properly... but people don't work that way...
so we Must endure the Hind-sight in order to get where we want to be.
Its very natural to be aprihensive about starting a relationship. add to that the publics Stigma about TS's in general and you have realy good reasons not to go into one at all... but if your strong you can do it !
Look back in your past as a Learning experience, not a time of pain. this is very important and I can't stress it enough... you have to let go of the sadness and the pain in order to move on. But Remember it enough so You don't deviate from the intended flight path in the future.
How do you get rid of the pain ? Revisit it in your mind till it softens its blows, till it becomes mundaine.... of no consiquience.... the fire dies.
face the pain in your hart and stand up to it. Your strong and You can certainly face something in your own mind !
However We frail humans like to run from our own painfull memories and not look at them at all... that is why when you remember a certain incident the tears come to your eyes.... the pain is still there ! Stop that pain ! You have the control to do it , and what ever it takes in your mind to do
it, you Must ! ....
Thinking about my own life, the hardest thing I have had to do and face in the last 50 years was to put my Dog down, that hurt and still hurts, but i am getting over it, Not only was he my buddy but a friend and companion the best dog we ever have had , he understood english and even spoke some words , his loss was magnified by the fact that i had to be the one to put him out of his misery.
But sad though that may be, the pain can be controled ! at first when the pain was sharp and mean, i simply didn't alow myself to think about it, I would catch myself thinking about it and force myself to think of something else.... this is a hard skill to aquire ! and takes much practice but it helps imencly !...
Later, I began to alow myself to think about it, the pain was still there no doubt, and tears would come to my eyes as i thought of those big brown eyes.
Infact i am still in the proccess of getting over it... but the pain has dulled, and its sharpness does not cut anymore, its uncomfortable but not tear-jerking to think about any more.... time is my friend in this !
In the same manor You can Kill all the pain in your hart... and be rid of the pain once and for all...... ware it out so to speak, ware it down to where it is just a tiny bump in the road, not a mountian to traverse.
...this is just How I handle it... there may be better ways to do it I don't know.
I read a very good bunch of books earlier in life that sort'a set me on the right path of getting MY SH** togather ! it is called Dianetics by L.Ron.Hubbard, I read it many times and read his self analisis book as well
but wound up stopping before i became truly "Clear" as he put it.
But I rid myself of the fear of crouds, and a few other idiocenquries that i had.... and Life is alot better now for reading them, i recomend them whole hartidly !
Knowing why you do what you do is very important in this life ! if you don't know why you alwayse do domething that you dislike then its time to look deep inside and find out, some times you may not like what you find, other times it will make you laugh ! ....
... I mean , My fear of crouds stemed from getting lost in a croud in L.A. as a kid while christmass shopping ! of all the silly things to have control of your life ! In a croud I would get up tight, and if i couldn't get out of that croud I'ed practially go bezerk... it was ruening my life !i was afrade to go out ! there's PEOPLE out there !!!!! HAHAHAHAHA
but needless to say, realising WHY, cured the problem in and of itself and I just get nervice now because I don't like the idea of being trampled, but thats all !
the human mind is a marvelous thing, but YOU must take control of it , don't just go along for the ride.
Ugh, sorry for the Novil again !
I realy must make my posts shorter and to the point !
Sorry about that !
my 25 cents worth !
Bob......
Quote from: Bob on July 21, 2006, 11:46:19 PM...
Don't blame it on the other person because thats simply not the case .
But keep in mind that the other person might be pushing you away for the same reasons...
Quote from: Bob on July 21, 2006, 11:46:19 PM...
I read a very good bunch of books earlier in life that sort'a set me on the right path of getting MY SH** togather ! it is called Dianetics by L.Ron.Hubbard, I read it many times and read his self analisis book as well
but wound up stopping before i became truly "Clear" as he put it.
...
Similar book that I think is good, that I have mentioned before, is Psychocybernetics by Dr. Maxwell Maltz, for the same reasons. ;)
Hi everyone,
Love is an unexpected cup of coffee, made just how you like it.
Love is a shower together at 2:30 am.
Love is an attentive ear for a boring story.
Love is the outreached arms of a child begging to be picked up and held, without saying a word.
Love is the electricity between two hands, being held on the couch watching the evening news.
Love is taking away someones pain, to ease your own pain.
Love is a feeling that the good will always outweigh the bad.
Love always,
Elizabeth
Very True Kimberly ! but i wasn't talking about the feelings of the "intended Victom" so to speak <grin> I was talking about Yourself ! remember that You are in control of your own thoughts, your own emotions, likes and dislikes... and because of that its nobody elses problem ...its YOURS... yours to live with, or to change to how you want yourself to be.
If you find that you start backing out of a relationship as it is just getting started and there is no reason for it but fear. then you can change that !
the key is to reconise first, what your doing and why !
...
As you can tell I am a great advocate of "Knowing Yourself" as far as I am concerned it was paramount in my life ... Some folk go through their entire lives hateing something and never realy know why... they chock it off to a personality trate and leave it at that... but its better to Know yourself and know why you dislike something
For instance, (another silly example) I used to realy hate sit down theaters
infact i wouldn't go to them at all... when I got surching as to why i came up with ...."People"... and i never realised it was the Croud that made me dislike the Theaters but it was... once Rid of the croud problem in my mind I then had to go through every aspect of my life to see what else it messed up ! ofcorse when I realised it was the croud THING that bothered me about the sit down theaters I could go to one and actually enjoy it .
So what I'm saying is if you find yourself doing something that you don't like, Like Milissa's backing out of a relationship before its even had a chance to start, then you need to change that by realiseing what you are doing ...the what, when, how ,why and where of it.
Milissa had already got half the battle done because she realises that she is doing it.... the hardest part about changeing yourself for the better is reconiseing your own faults...they hide from our awareness extreamily well.
... to that end I sat down with my beloved wife one day and asked her ok, whats my faults !?!?.... and I got an honnest answer and a list about as long as my arm ! HAHAHHAHA... but SHE could see them where i could not.
hehehe I was just thinking its about time to do that again I think...I wonder if the list will have changed or grown longer ?
but anyway, I'm hijacking this thred and I don't wann'a do that !
so I'll shuddup !
...
What is True Love ?
My wife and family, thats easy for me ... because after all we've been through they still love me ! <grin>
I was going to be Onery and say a Warm puppy ! because they love with no expectations, no real demands, they just Love ya because your theirs !
besides you make a great Chew stick ! hehehehehe
Bob.....
(ps. and Yes, PsycoCybernetics by Doc Maltz was one of the first that i read)
these books will indeed help you to become the person you want to be !
Quote from: Bob on July 21, 2006, 05:04:37 AM
Ok Chynna I gott'a ask !
Why do you do that to yourself ? you are robbing yourself of the best life has to offer in so doing, well thats my opinion anyway... Yes it would help when breaking up there is no doubt there, but you are missing so very much that way!
Good question.....Because I can!!
is the only answer I can give you...
Comes from years of abuse and is a character flaw I admit but it is what it is baby and I am all that I can be...
But love the advice! And the post...Im impressed
CHYNNA
Chynna:
Please don't take this the wrong way , I'm not trying to be abusive or push you down to push me up in any way... this is what I have observed...
You are hideing. hideing from yourself and from others, why I don't know but the results are there in your statement " it is what it is and I'm all I can be" when you know very well it could be better ! I hardly Know you Chynna but i like you already ! you have spunk ! and that is good ! You may well indeed like being the way you are in the relationship idea if thats the case great then you are where you want to be . impervious to pain and not aproachable eather. with every action there is an equil and opisit reaction as the saying goes in physics, but the same can be said for our emotions as well, if you feel no pain you will feel no love, if you feel no attachment you will not feel attached to anyone, I think perhaps you have taken it to extreams and that may be good for you and it may not be, You are the judge of that .
each of us finds a way to deal with life in the best way they can .
Some times we find that we have backed ourselves into a cornor and can't find a way out , our attitudes change to fit the life we live, our actions change to fit the attitudes.... and we are changed... we're not what we once were.
However we can change being trapped in the same way we got there in the first place, by slowly, steadially wanting to be something diferent, your attitude changes,and your actions change to sute. purty soon you are changed
again.... its not rocket science by any means you just have to want it bad enough to do it . and yes at first it takes alot of consious effort.
Change usually comes with a price too. but so does liveing in a way you don't want to. if your liveing in a way you enjoy then fantastic for you !you are one of the very few, but don't decieve yourself in the proccess eather .
we can fool ourselves real easy.... our minds are very abligeing in that regard ! <grin>
Bob......
Nice....
Hiding?!
mmm.... lets flip that to say coping the best way I can with the drama life has handed me.
I couldn't hide from myself if I truly tried besides the point would be mute anyway to try.
as for hiding from others. well, Yes I could agree with that statement but don't we all??
at some point no one and I mean no one is completely open and honest about all there emotions and feelings we all have these little sorta messed up defense mechanism that enable our little minds to mask the truth (or we think) from others.
BOB,
Until I read your post I didn't realize I had an on-line therapist!!! carefull when trying to psycho anaylze Chynna Doll you may end up on the couch yourself!!! ;) ;D :-*
the one thing I know most definitly in this world is myself. and I am very much afraid of ME and what I am capable of on many levels good and bad. Things could indeed be better but this is my zone and this is what makes perfectly logical sense to me....besides a gyrl can't afford the price that comes with the change you speak of! if you catch my drift! therefore my detached emotions are my reality and a serious character flaw I admit...But it still doesn't change the fact that I am one, LOL On & off line!
Chynna Doll
And PS Baby Boy
Im impressed and like your style too! :-*
[edit]Word replaced with the word "messed" - Steph[/edit]
Good reply Chynna :
And I think you may well be copeing the best way possable to you.
But even though Change is Expensive in terms of emotional and physical tolls it is
still do-able. Change your life to how you wnat it to be , though it sounds as if you are quite happy with the way you are and that is great !
I'm not a theropest and I'm not trying to psycoanolize you , I am just trying to help
as you say we all have our defence mechinisums that are messed up in some way and you are not alone in that by any means ! I too am messed up in many ways, but i didn't come here to get help , i came here to help... if being here helps me then thats just iceing on the cake <grin>
THe thing is I have known a few people with your attitude towards relationships and those people were miserable all the time ...and I don't want you to be miserable all the time so I am trying to point you to a way out of the locked in personality trates that are keeping you the way you are ... i'm not trying to hurt you , i am trying to help you
and I realise you probly don't even want that help, because what you have works ! and its hard to do something else... I certainly don't want to Piss ya off Chynna Doll so I will leave it at that and just say that you can change if you want to but you must want to change, that is the first prerequiset.
Have a good one !
Bob......
Sweetness........!! I was actually rather enjoying our "session" together!!!!
Seriously The conversation was stimulating almost in a sexual aspect..im wierd that way...And i didn't take offense to anything you said... I just come off that way...OOPS...So continue sir Im all ears! and 40% breasts!
Chynna
Ok Chynna ! then ,if you can list thr reasons why having your relationships so totally detached is a good thing. ok ? that way we have some starting place
I won't ask you to list why its not a good idea , as i amagon you are fairly blinded by your success if i may put it so bluntly. though you are a very intelegant individual seeing past yourself sometimes is not so easy to do.
I will try not to use any "bad words" as to disturb Leigh in her overseeing of this board
as I have just been warned about that ....but i am a Dimond in the ROUGH and very rough i might add <grin> so there is no garentees....
Anyway, You may well teach me something here Chynna Doll ! because I have unlike you alwayse given my all in a relationship, and sometimes the results were devistateing as you can amagon, but try as i might to hold back , it just wasn't within my power to do so .
so believe me I Know what you are saying has its advantages ! but i feel the bad simply out weighs the good in many ways. so lets see .
Who knows a discussion about this may give others a better insight into their lives as well , so for the sake of education lets continue, its bound to be interesting indeed.
...
Bob......
Fair enough....
1. I am totally honest with my partners all the time
Meaning: I don't lie or spare there feelings or bend the truth just to save there feelings. The 100% truth is what you should expect from your partner all the time that what seperates them from everyone else
2. Totally objective in regards to them
Meaning: Since my emotions for my love are detachable I have a remarkable way of stepping back and seeing that person or the point he\she is trying to make from a non emotional point of view...saves on petty arguements all the time and helps my partner know when they just might be wrong or out of line.
3. Makes me more intuned to spot BS
Meaning: if in the begining when you meet a person most people tend to become infactuated with them just because there new and exciting and that tends to make you get your feelings involved to quickly and when we meet the BS'ers (which we all know there are alot of them) this leads to us being hurt more often...I aint got that problem ...well very rarely
4. When my emotions do get involved with a person its so much more meaningfull
Meaning: when I first date an individula im fun, outgoing, affection, yadda yadda yadda but When I truly get into that person you and everyone else that I and that other person comes into contact with can see the difference and over whelming sense of emotion and feelings I have for that sole person has oppossed to everyone else...Tends to make the person im involved with more appreciative and aware that I actually do love just them
And
5. The recovery aspect.
Which i already touched upon...
Your turn Dr. BOB! :D ;) ;D :-*
As for a diamond in the ruff...we both seem to be that! I just sparkle a lot thats why my maker keeps polishing me!
Oh and I will list why its not a good thing to have my emotions detached in a few hours got to go do some work im a corporate gyrl ya know.
Chynna Doll
Hummm...
Oddly enough you said just about everything i was going to say except it sounds like you go about it slower...than I do.... which is an exelent way to go about it !
the only real big diference is the detachment part that i can see... but I too use that method when trying to understand anothers point of view. and your right it works wonderfully !
Well sense i don't have a great deal of experience in this feild, as i have been married and happily so for 33years now i think it is , its been a very long time sense I went girl hunting you see ! <grin> but i do remember those times when i did and they made an impression on me.... like how can i be so stoopid as to give that girl my entire hart and not hold back some....even a little.... but thats just not how i work ! i couldn't do it back then and if i found my self a batchler again i know i couldn't do it now eather.
Lets see.... I can count the Girl friends I've had on one hand and that includes the one I married <grin> just wern't any reason to look any further , she's the one i was after all along !.... but in that 33 years she has tought me so much its unbelieveable !
without a doubt she is the best thing that ever happened to me !
....but what you stated is exactly what I was going to say... so I'm setting here with no wind in my sails ! and nothing to type ! HAHAHAHHAHA
you mentioned one thing that is important ...above the other points... you mentioned that sense your emotions for love are detachable....that alows you to be objective...
This may well be the truth of the matter, but i doubt that your love is detachable, its more like your stepping outside yourself in order to see clearly.
I doubt that qualifys as detachable Love or something you can turn on or turn off.
and that statement also implys that you do LOVE... but you can still see clearly and are not blinded by it. ( I'm not so sure i can say that about myself ! <grin>)
In your previous posts I took your statement to mean that you do not Love, you are simply detached when it comes to relationships .... and I see that is not the case which is great.
.....
Is this what you mean Chynna ?
or am i way off here ?
Bob.......
So do I get my HRT letter doc or what??????LMAO
At Least I get a gold starr for being smarter than the average bear!
Anyway my emotions may be disconnected by I am intune and know them all too well...I know I am passionate, extremely affectionate and sentimental...Qualities my grand mother graced me with...but I also know I am exetremely spiteful, vindictive, and have rage and anger that makes me capable of anything...qualities which my father vested in me Being a former "Lifer" for murder in the first degree I know I share the mans rage and many of his personnality traits.
Which your probable sitting there thinking what does that have to do with true love and detached emotions.....Right
I use my detached emotions to "protect me" from that wrath, and anger so I don't make the same mistakes my father made in his life :'(
(OK the crying emoticon is just me being over dramatic!)
YES, I do love and Am capable of being in love......wait you do know the difference in loving a person and being in love with a person right?
and YES, in a sense my love is detachable.... because I simply LOVE myself too and when an individual loves themselves and another person and lets say that other person is self destructive or just hurtfull to me then my love for myself and my feelings for them step in to say stop...because we are just hurting each other and nothing good can come of too people who do care for each other being destructive and hatefull to each other right???
The way I look at love and relationships is simple.....
One phrase sums it up so well
"You can sleep with anyone....But how many people can you have a good conversation with and say you actually enjoyed it!!??"
I can count one one hand hows about you BOB??
Im off to pop a tylenol and drink a pot o coffee I got a flight to catch this afternoon till later BOB keep'em comin!
Wisdom @ 29
Chynna