Acceptance is more fun than passing.
Being perceived as a woman and therefore being treated as a woman is mundane and obvious.
Being perceived as a transsexual and being treated as a person shows how wonderful the world can be.
I'd have to agree with you on this one. Theres something more to it than just being a woman. As tough as its been living with this I think i'd probably do it all over again.
I wouldn't trade my perspective for anything and if I wasn't transgendered I wouldn't be who I am today.
Quote from: Renate on January 27, 2008, 04:19:41 PM
Acceptance is more fun than passing.
Being perceived as a woman and therefore being treated as a woman is mundane and obvious.
Being perceived as a transsexual and being treated as a person shows how wonderful the world can be.
Let the fun begin.
Renate
Passing still has to be the holy grail, if only for the reason that your own core personality perceives you yourself as
female. besides, you're close to passing anyway, if you'd just stop wearing boy-hair and tee-shirts.
-ellie
QuoteBeing perceived as a woman and therefore being treated as a woman is mundane and obvious.
Not if you have a personality.
Wow, Renate, why not put a hot poker up our collective asses
while your at it... ;)
After 40 years of being less than mondane,
mondane is fine with me.
I'll leave the "extraordinary" to those who want it.
I'll get my extraordinary by climbing Everest
or get a pullitzer.
Quote from: ell on January 27, 2008, 07:22:46 PM
Quote from: Renate on January 27, 2008, 04:19:41 PM
Acceptance is more fun than passing.
Being perceived as a woman and therefore being treated as a woman is mundane and obvious.
Being perceived as a transsexual and being treated as a person shows how wonderful the world can be.
Let the fun begin.
Renate
Passing still has to be the holy grail, if only for the reason that your own core personality perceives you yourself as female. besides, you're close to passing anyway, if you'd just stop wearing boy-hair and tee-shirts.
-ellie
Quote from: ell on January 27, 2008, 07:22:46 PM
Quote from: Renate on January 27, 2008, 04:19:41 PM
Acceptance is more fun than passing.
Being perceived as a woman and therefore being treated as a woman is mundane and obvious.
Being perceived as a transsexual and being treated as a person shows how wonderful the world can be.
Let the fun begin.
Renate
trying to keep this all in contested here. some how ::)
ellie i have to agree with you on this point that you have made here
Passing still has to be the holy grail, if only for the reason that your own core personality perceives you yourself as female.
Passing still has to be the holy grail, if only for the reason that your own core personality perceives you yourself as female. besides, you're close to passing anyway, if you'd just stop wearing boy-hair and tee-shirts.
-ellie
Personally I think it is a combination of both. In order for someone to accept us as something, they have to perceive us as that "something", no?
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: Tink on January 27, 2008, 09:22:47 PM
Personally I think it is a combination of both. In order for someone to accept us as something, they have to perceive us as that "something", no?
tink :icon_chick:
indeed tink indeed thus so yes
Quote from: Renate on January 27, 2008, 04:19:41 PM
Hi all:
Acceptance is more fun than passing.
Being perceived as a woman and therefore being treated as a woman is mundane and obvious.
Being perceived as a transsexual and being treated as a person shows how wonderful the world can be.
Let the fun begin.
Renate
I totally disagree with that statement Renate ......I would never want to be percieved as a transsexual when I'm out doing my shopping thank you very much...
what's the point of passing when they come to talk to you/ know you, they find out and mistreat you anyway?
or have i misunderstood again?
i see where some of you're coming from, at least you're seen as you appearance-wise.
Quote from: fluffy jorgen on January 28, 2008, 07:54:03 AM
what's the point of passing when they come to talk to you/ know you, they find out and mistreat you anyway?
or have i misunderstood again?
i see where some of you're coming from, at least you're seen as you appearance-wise.
How would they find out?
Quote from: Berliegh on January 28, 2008, 10:44:08 AM
Quote from: fluffy jorgen on January 28, 2008, 07:54:03 AM
what's the point of passing when they come to talk to you/ know you, they find out and mistreat you anyway?
or have i misunderstood again?
i see where some of you're coming from, at least you're seen as you appearance-wise.
How would they find out?
i must have misunderstood then. lol.
no i meant there are more senses than just sight.
Quote from: fluffy jorgen on January 28, 2008, 03:58:22 PM
Quote from: Berliegh on January 28, 2008, 10:44:08 AM
Quote from: fluffy jorgen on January 28, 2008, 07:54:03 AM
what's the point of passing when they come to talk to you/ know you, they find out and mistreat you anyway?
or have i misunderstood again?
i see where some of you're coming from, at least you're seen as you appearance-wise.
How would they find out?
i must have misunderstood then. lol.
no i meant there are more senses than just sight.
That's true....I've seen some stunning Transsexuals but as soon as they open their mouth they sound like a bloke and the whole thing is lost......also some mannerisms can be picked up on quite easily......
I've been very lucky with my voice which is very female sounding...
Acceptance is really awesome. Passing makes me so paranoid sometimes. When I'm accepted I don't even really think about my gender and how others perceive it. I am taken and loved for who I am. And that's awesome.
I think as human beings, acceptance is a huge thing. We're all trying to get acceptance, trans or not.
Given being accepted, or living a lie, I'll take the first option.
sara and tekla you both made a very good point here and i have to agree with you on this
Some people know I'm trans, others don't, and some don't believe me. So, I get it from several sides. There are old friends in my life, of course, who know about me. And they accept me and see me as a women, despite knowing my past. Although, oddly enough, people are having a hard time remembering the old me -- and I must admit, I'm having a hard time remembering myself or thinking of myself ever being a boy. The weirdest thing is running into old group photos of myself and not realizing at first that the guy in the picture was me once before. I look so different. It's weird. I actually ran into an old co-worker and started talking to her like nothing changed, and it took her almost five minutes to figure out who I was -- she hasn't seen me in almost a year! I've had that happen a few times with people that I don't see often.
As for being trans, I rarely talk about it these days, except for on my vlogs (but it's not always the main subject). I just usually don't think about having a transexual condition. *shrugs* And the topic is worn out and passe with my friends, so we don't talk about it much. So, even being trans can be mundane. LOL
As for people who don't know, it's fine as well, because I'm pretty much treated the same. People just seem me as who I am, no matter if they know my past or not. Although, when some people find out it's a mind trip. I've told some people who just don't believe me, no matter what I say. So, I usually just go with the flow, don't worry about it, and just let people get to know me for my personality, who I am. I find either way, I'm at the point were people just treat me as myself.
--natalie
Hey Nat, In the town where I transitioned and lived as Cindy for 8 years, It would have been hard to find any other trans folks in that small town. I got along with and I loved all the folks in that town though. not a soul ever gave me a hard time about anything. I do believe though as you have said yourself that the folks there, even though they all knew who I was they would have found it difficult to remember what I looked like in my former life.
I can also quite agree with you about back when I was a kid, back from earliest childhood up to as far as my mid twenties I can't imagine that this kid growing up back then was any thing else but a girl. I already knew instinctively who I was, just had no one I could trust enough to confide in about it. It wouldn't be until years later before I would even hear of the word transsexual. I believe my mom knew and I do quite remember clearly when she use to refer to me as berdach on different occasions, she would refer to me as her little berdach in front of her friends. I knew what the word meant and that word was the only one I could identify with back then. My feelings, my thoughts, my attitude, and my character just never fit the role of being a boy. So the girl within has always been with me. I really don't have to worry about being identified here in Vancouver as anything else then whom I present, an aging hippy lady. but don't let the age fool you I can still dance circles around another half my age. "Hee, hee, hee."
Heck I am only just starting to get used to the vibrations of some of the people here, but I am beginning to discover that there is not all that much difference in the folks here then the folks I knew in Midland Ontario, just more of them. As for hanging out with other TS's, it would have been kind of difficult to find any where I came from, but I met a few here. Well Nat if you know me, most of them are young enough to be my kids, I wish I could adopt some of them. ;D
Anyway that's about enough prattling from me.
Yes I also want to let you also know that your entire perspective on things has really improved since the first time I met you on this board, just keep on doing what ever it is your doing..
Cindy
Re: Acceptance is more fun than passing
The above statement doesn't make sense.....
if you pass then you are accepted...if you don't pass you are not accepted.....therefor it's much better to pass....
Hi Berleigh I have corrected the error in the first paragraph if that is what you were referring to.
Cindy
Quote from: Berliegh on January 31, 2008, 04:26:18 AM
Re: Acceptance is more fun than passing
The above statement doesn't make sense.....
if you pass then you are accepted...if you don't pass you are not accepted.....
Both of those statements I believe to be wrong. So I don't agree with you conclusion. Passing is something you do with strangers on a bus. Acceptance is something you do with friends in a hug. Hugs with friends is more fun than Strangers on a Bus. Therefore acceptance is more fun than passing.
Quote from: Ashley Michelle on January 31, 2008, 05:08:14 PM
Quote from: redfish on January 31, 2008, 05:02:40 PM
What if one of the strangers on the bus wants a hug? =(
oh no....its not the smelly guy wearing the 'northern exposure' hat, is it?
:laugh: LMAO.
i'll be the first in line to hug
this stranger. (not!) :D
Quote from: redfish on January 31, 2008, 05:34:33 PM
Don't you think that grumpy men with Northern Exposure hats get lonely too?
He's a human being!
yup they do redfish
ROFL Ashley Michelle, maybe your post wasn't meant to be serious but it made me laugh. As for hugging any one, I do so without hesitation when I see someone who could use a hug. At least I never found it necessary to carry a brick in my purse. Like this bag lady that was in the restaurant where Wing Walker and I went to have supper a couple nights ago. We did the best we could to help her out. That lady touched me inside and found it difficult to hold back the tears. Before we left I gave her a hug and I could feel her frailty. She beamed at our show of kindliness and I could feel the warmth coming from her. But then I have a sense for these people. I have worked with such people many a times during the twenty years I worked as a social worker.
Cindy
Quote from: Berliegh on January 31, 2008, 04:26:18 AM
Re: Acceptance is more fun than passing
The above statement doesn't make sense.....
if you pass then you are accepted...if you don't pass you are not accepted.....therefor it's much better to pass....
One can be accepted even if they are not viewed as a natal woman, and one can be rejected even if they are a natal woman, passing has nothing to do with being accepted.
The only way that passing == acceptance is when people dont know who or what they are accepting, in which case its not acceptance, its ignorance.
Its also pretty ->-bleeped-<-ty to say that unless you can pass you'll never be accepted.
Renate got it right IMO
Dawn
All I have found that I need most is to have an upbeat personality with folks, you then can project to them what you want them to see and be accepted. *Passing,* well passing depends on how other folks perceive me to be. Been doing it for 8 years so I know it works.
Cindy
Quote from: Dawn Labelle on February 11, 2008, 02:54:47 PM
Quote from: Berliegh on January 31, 2008, 04:26:18 AM
Re: Acceptance is more fun than passing
The above statement doesn't make sense.....
if you pass then you are accepted...if you don't pass you are not accepted.....therefor it's much better to pass....
One can be accepted even if they are not viewed as a natal woman, and one can be rejected even if they are a natal woman, passing has nothing to do with being accepted.
The only way that passing == acceptance is when people dont know who or what they are accepting, in which case its not acceptance, its ignorance.
Its also pretty ->-bleeped-<-ty to say that unless you can pass you'll never be accepted.
Renate got it right IMO
Dawn
I see where you are coming from Dawn.....but what I meant earlier was that if you don't pass you wouldn't be accepted as a genetic female......but I agree with your point that people can be won over by someone's personality, character and confidence no matter how they might be percieved...
The best "people persons" I know teach others how to deal with them, rather than leaving it to chance.
Quote from: redfish on February 12, 2008, 12:07:07 PM
Why does everything have to require some stupid hierarchy?
Acceptance is fine, passing is fine, acceptance while not passing is fine, acceptance while passing is fine. Who cares otherwise?
So true..... so true. :) :) :)
Quote from: buttercup on February 12, 2008, 04:05:54 PM
Quote from: redfish on February 12, 2008, 12:07:07 PM
Why does everything have to require some stupid hierarchy?
Acceptance is fine, passing is fine, acceptance while not passing is fine, acceptance while passing is fine. Who cares otherwise?
So true..... so true. :) :) :)
indeed so very true :) :)
Quote from: Berliegh on January 28, 2008, 06:14:14 AM
Quote from: Renate on January 27, 2008, 04:19:41 PM
Hi all:
Acceptance is more fun than passing.
Being perceived as a woman and therefore being treated as a woman is mundane and obvious.
Being perceived as a transsexual and being treated as a person shows how wonderful the world can be.
Let the fun begin.
Renate
I totally disagree with that statement Renate ......I would never want to be percieved as a transsexual when I'm out doing my shopping thank you very much...
I only ever get seen as a boy dressed like a girl in public, its so very nice when the sales people dont care though and love to show me nice things, they understand I have relatively no idea WTF im doing, thats acceptance and it feels so much better than passing to me...
Then again I dont really know what passing is like sooo...
Quote from: mara on February 12, 2008, 11:50:50 PM
Quote from: Berliegh on January 28, 2008, 06:14:14 AM
Quote from: Renate on January 27, 2008, 04:19:41 PM
Hi all:
Acceptance is more fun than passing.
Being perceived as a woman and therefore being treated as a woman is mundane and obvious.
Being perceived as a transsexual and being treated as a person shows how wonderful the world can be.
Let the fun begin.
Renate
I totally disagree with that statement Renate ......I would never want to be percieved as a transsexual when I'm out doing my shopping thank you very much...
I only ever get seen as a boy dressed like a girl in public, its so very nice when the sales people dont care though and love to show me nice things, they understand I have relatively no idea WTF im doing, thats acceptance and it feels so much better than passing to me...
Then again I dont really know what passing is like sooo...
Now the real question though! Are you sure they only see a boy dressed like a girl!?!? :D
Quote from: mara on February 12, 2008, 11:50:50 PM
I only ever get seen as a boy dressed like a girl in public, its so very nice when the sales people dont care though and love to show me nice things, they understand I have relatively no idea WTF im doing, thats acceptance and it feels so much better than passing to me...
Then again I dont really know what passing is like sooo...
I totally agree hun, thats what I want for acceptance, passable or not and I can pass to a certain extent. In my experience, I've found that the more I accept myself and the less guilt / shame / fear that I feel over what I am that the less and less I care about passing. Passing is terribly overrated in an open society..... now being trans in some parts of the world passing is equal to survival, but thats another story entirely.
Dawn
I'm a Post-Op and I rarely "pass", and I probably never will without FFS (which I'm now considering). Would if I could, wish though I might, it just doesn't happen to often, such is my fate in life. What makes it up for me is a returned smile from another woman, to me that's acceptance and her way of saying "hi sister", that always lights me up and it happens all the time.
Another cool thing about it is a lot of women get to asking me questions about being TS and having the surgery, I think it's a great way for me to educate people about us, and I have to say that I get very positive feedback from the vast majority of them. A lot of them think that what I've done is pretty cool, so I'll take that form of acceptance anytime and everytime, and it always leaves me smiling. Men just give me weird looks and move away like I'm contagious or something, but that just cracks me up.
There are a few times when I get the giggles from some idiots, but hey, idiots aren't worth my time or worry, so I just give them a great big smile and keep on doing whatever I'm up to, and I think them seeing that they're having no effect on me bothers them more than anything, I just love it!
Karen Starlene
^ Yea- don't let some idiots put you down! They only do that to make themselves feel good and to escape their pathetic low lives.
Keep living
Hi GypsyKaren
Looks like you have your own little system at work and if it works that is well and good. I have my own similar system on how to interact with the nutes out there then be it as it should. As for passing I believe it is as simple as projecting, projecting to others what you want them to see. I to tell the truth don't really pass that well but I have not been sired for the past seven years I been on full time. Of course my attitude and personality have much to do with it as well. I am always ready without hesitation to go do what ever I can to help someone who is in need. Just be careful hon when you venture out there.
Cindy
hi ...being accepted . passing . the voice then letting you down . when i am talking to people & i am in full female mode strange as it may sound my voice goes up i dont think to do it its just me . i did not think i would ..pass..as such . the thing for me is as you know i am both m & f . as i have accepted my self for who i am its not a prob. its not as it seems for others who i deal with . some ??? are you on homones had s r s or what ever dont dispair just be your self it takes time to work out . just a thought any way.....noeleena.... :)