I don't appreciate people talking about killing themselves all the time. If youre really having a problem with life and a certain situation, sure lets talk it through and help get things sorted out and put in their places. But just saying that you want to end it all and not elaborating isn't going to help. Suicide is the worst answer to someones problems. I truly think that it is selfish and I am not religious, but I do think that it is a sin. Everyone has value and no matter how hard it is to see it in yourself, you do.
Don't get me wrong, life sucks sometimes and it can be hard, but the "easy way out" is not worth it. And its not like I haven't thought about it either, everyone does at one time or another. But seriously contemplating my own demise, I haven't done.
All I am trying to say is that if your having a problem there is plenty of people, on this forum, and in real life, that can help. Just flat saying "I'm going to kill myself" doesn't really lend itself well to getting things figured out. Its too easy to get caught up in the thought of suicide as an answer instead of trying to deal with what is making you feel that way. Lets discuss solutions to problems, and not that solution. I have lost one too many people in my life to suicide and the aftermath is devastating.
Audrey
P.S. this post isn't directed at anyone in particular.
I must say that its never been an option I've considered. Once or twice I've had to be held back from homicide, but do myself in, never been there. I say that by way of being honest that I have no idea what would drive people to that point. Be that as it may....
I can think of few solutions to that problem then tossing it out in a random fashion into cyberspace hoping - against all hope - that some thing of a good nature might come back from that. I'm amazed, given the context, that more negative stuff does not happen, more negative replies are not heard. Its not unknown in the rather cold nature of the modern world, where people on ledges have had chants of "Jump" rise from the gathered crowd, that given a chance to hate, many take it.
This is the worst place for such things. Almost like taking your broken car to a toaster repair shop. Such things are very serious, very deadly, and require professional assistance (which is at other sites, or a phone call away) not the advice of random, untrained, people.
I'm appalled by your judgement of people that are suicidal as sinners. People that make serious attempts on there own lives suffer from psychiatric disorders. Major depression is the most common cause suicide ideation and actual attempts. It's characterised by chemical imbalances of neural transmitters in the brain. It's a biological disease that people have no more control over than a case of pneumonia. Because of the stigma attached to mental illness many people don't seek treatment. Some of them recover without intervention. Others spiral down the abyss falling deeper and deeper.
Depression is not due to character flaws anymore than the flu is. :o
Suicide is something that has been on my mind most of my life. I decided to do it last quarter, and if it weren't for my girlfriend at the time pulling me into her car.. I would not be typing this. I am feeling much better now that I've figured out that I am not worthless and don't have to hide who I am. So much so that suicide, for the first time, isn't on my list of things to do.
That said, I'm glad that you folks have never considered this. But to those who have been beaten down their entire lives, it's a very palatable option. Personally, I still think it's a valid option for some people in certain situations.
For those who just seek attention.. that's a bit annoying.
In SF certain success is just a bus ride away. So people tend to take it very real, and do not consider it easy, or a character flaw. I've had it happen to people I've known well. It leaves a heavy burden on those that remain.
Still it needs real help, not random advice.
Quote from: tekla on January 29, 2008, 01:27:51 AM
In SF certain success is just a bus ride away. So people tend to take it very real, and do not consider it easy, or a character flaw. I've had it happen to people I've known well. It leaves a heavy burden on those that remain.
Still it needs real help, not random advice.
Catch a ride on the 28 line.... :(
I think people that talk about suicide should be taken seriously. That's just my opinion.
This is a support site though. Somtimes people dont got anybody to talk to & they come here looking for support. one of the things Jesus said "throw the first stone if you are without sin. Do not judge for you will be judged"
Quote from: Claire de Lune on January 29, 2008, 01:21:04 AM
I'm appalled by your judgement of people that are suicidal as sinners. People that make serious attempts on there own lives suffer from psychiatric disorders. Major depression is the most common cause suicide ideation and actual attempts. It's characterised by chemical imbalances of neural transmitters in the brain. It's a biological disease that people have no more control over than a case of pneumonia. Because of the stigma attached to mental illness many people don't seek treatment. Some of them recover without intervention. Others spiral down the abyss falling deeper and deeper.
Depression is not due to character flaws anymore than the flu is. :o
True true. If we're comparing bad ideas while depressed due to a chem. imbalance, consider it puking with the flu. You can't really avoid it unless you hold it in, but then it tends to come back twice as bad without proper care. Either that, or you don't even contemplate suicide, but have the constant fear of being sucked out of your persona and reality into a black hole. That... Is... The ...WORST feeling EVER. The only reason why I don't bother with suicide is because I'm not that much of a risktaker, and I'd like to cover my mortal grounds before the metaphysics, or at the same time. Why risk it? I mean, fun might happen one day, and I'm patient, kinda. I also totally understand people who do it though, even if it turns out to be a regrettable mistake, and something selfish to anyone connected to you.
But seriously. Its chemical. Its a constant nagging feeling and thought process which gives you poor perception of time, and fun or being "connected". So, think twice before you judge. There have also been other cultures where suicide was considered an honorable route. I believe seppoku was one such belief. Ours is merely a culture as well, subject to changes/destruction. It all depends. But all in all, the modern suicide is caused as an end result of a depressed mind.
We get hit pretty hard sometimes.
It can realy take the wind out of you.
I got hit like that the other day.
It's not easy no matter who you are to take a blow like that, and it certainly isn't easy for someone who is having trouble standing as it is.
I think it's important to listen for when people need help.
We all need help sometimes, and sometimes we just know that we are in over our head and that we won't be able to do it on our own.
We need help. And all we can do is open our arms and be at the mercy of the world.
Things usually work out, but it is darkest most just before dawn.
That's never easy. That dark can last a while, and what we are left with is a time that realy tests us and can be very, very scary for most of us.
Even those who are used to doing it and know that it comes out alright in the end have it rough.
When you are up against it, you are up against it. And lets face it; that's never easy.
People need help. We all need help at one time or another, sometimes more than normal for a while. Even a long while.
I don't judge people who are in pain, we all get pain.
So I try to help if I can. I can never return the kindness I have recieved from so many.
I can only be willing to constantly pay it back and do good merit and works.
and even then it is never paid back completely.
True love is Infinite.
We can never compare to that.
I am sorry for your loss's Audrey
My love is with you and everyone here.
Even when I can be a prick sometimes
I still love and I still care.
Sara
Hi
I worked as a social worker for twenty years and the last 7 years was with mental health consumers. I quite came upon the link for this board quite by accident, or was it by accident? when I was cleaning out my email the link for this board popped up out of nowhere. It was a Godsend to tell the truth. Being retired sucks big time, When the other boards had kind of went comatose, well I was lonely, so I certainly didn't hesitate or waste anytime signing back into this board.
Anyway that is what I do, I work with people that are in need of support, any time any place. If I were to stop caring and trying to help others or at least just share some wisdom and some of life's problems and pitfalls and of course mustn't forget a little humor tossed in here and there for good measure. Really, if I was to sit around doing nothing I think I would shrivel up and die. I wouldn't need to think about committing suicide. Loneliness is quite capable of killing a person quite efficiently by itself as well.
I am not here to talk about what kind of pills or gun you are going to use for killing yourself , but I am here to lend an ear if you wish to share what the reason is for you to desire to do yourself in. My only motive or desire is to shine what light I can for those who need it. After all we are girls are we not? Well I am quite aware that there are a few gentlemen on this board as well whom are quite capable of shining their light as well. I am only speaking in generalities in this post. Thank you for lending me your ear.
Cindy
Cindy
Stuff SF... it can be achived anywhere... but the problem is most do it for attention... to get people to talk to them or dig themout of thier problems... BELIVE ME, i feel for people who suffer so much, i myself HAVE attempted suicide more than once, and its a dark dark place to be. I certianly think 90% of those posts have no grounding whatsoever.... and no place here, where sensative people can be greatly upset by attentionwhoreing....
Tbh, it is a sin according to most religions, and i feel very bad that i was taken there... wrong? yeah, there is always another option, understandable? totally...
i now readily admit how weak i was back then. and how stupid a person to resort to such things....
tough subject to broach, cudos to Audrey for having the ovaries to do it....
R >:D
Hi Rachael
Yep, so did I, I was trying to do it the slow way, by way of drowning myself in alcohol. I really did, I tried to pickle myself to death but I only got very ill. But getting awfully Ill is what saved my life. Well I could have offed myself just by antagonising my abusive ex, thought of that to, but the thought of being beat to death was to brutal a way to leave this planet.
Cindy
the closed i came was going unconsious from a medication overdose... as it all went fuzzy, ive never hated myself quite as much in my entire life...
R
Quote from: Audrey on January 29, 2008, 12:31:06 AM
I don't appreciate people talking about killing themselves all the time....
I agree with those who criticize this post, especially agreeing with Claire deLune's response. Someone talking about their severe depression and thoughts of suicide is the best medicine, and often it's not about who's standing nearby but that the person is talking and someone may be listening and help. The worst case scenarios is when they don't talk and no one knows until they were successful. It's a loss all the way around, the person and those they left behind.
The nice thing about a forum like this is that you can chose which posts you want to read, and if you don't like one after reading it, you can simply click away. You don't have to open a can of words for or against anything you don't like simply because it's here. We all have topics and subjects we don't like, most of which isn't life-threatening. Suicide is and shouldn't be treated with criticism that you dislike the post(s).
I'm sorry you felt the need to express the criticism. And while I agree anyone contemplating suicide needs to talk to an experienced counselor or therapist. There are hotlines and Websites for this, but that doesn't mean they should be ignored here. They should be heard and advised to seek help and offer where help can be found.
And the best on-line place I know is Wing of Madness (http://www.wingofmadness.com/) - check the forum, but there are others, such as, NSSP (http://mentalhealth.samhsa.gov/suicideprevention/) and SPRC (http://www.sprc.org/).
How hard is that for a friend?
--Susan--
the word: "suicide" has become so over-rated. where i live damn near everyone wants to top themselves or so they say, so you don't really know who means it and who doesn't. thus i've become frustrated about the whole thing because i wanna help, but i don't know who to help!
most probably i misunderstood the point of the thread yet again. meh.
i think it takes a very brave person to commit suicide, since as noone knows for certain what follows after death. i don't think they're cowards though for choosing an easier way out.
i'm saying "they" because i've never been suicidal. sure, i've self-harmed, but that wasn't intended to kill me. and sure, i've had thoughts: what would it be like if i was dead/ wasn't here- but doesn't everyone. it's part of life.
i agree with those who said it's an illness and the person can't help it.
feelings yes... getting help to stop them... yes.
'im going to kill myself now, bye!' <-- drama llama isnt pleased that his job has been outsourced...
R >:D
I do call the police on people I feel are serious. So it's not a game to be played, as you might find the boys and girls in blue knocking on your door. Yes Virginia (Santa clause reference), I can trace internet addresses. Generally the people in question are not happy about it at the time but they generally come to understand it was in their best interest later on...
I don't think that its wrong for anyone to vent about anything here if they have no one to talk to, no matter what the subject may be. For someone to label them as a "drama queen" or an "attention seeker" is pretty damn cold and insensitive in my opinion. Some people make the case that "so what? its just the internet? it does not matter", well, thats just a hypocritical cop out.
Yes to that Susan. We do usually get mad at first, then are happy you did it.
Thank you.
Sarah L.
Quote from: Renate on January 29, 2008, 05:18:35 AM
Quote from: Audrey on January 29, 2008, 12:31:06 AM
I don't appreciate people talking about killing themselves all the time.
My reaction to that statement is so negative that I'll just leave it at that.
I don't think suicidal people should be constrained by etiquette.
If you are suicidal, make contact with somebody, somehow.
Call a friend, call a suicide help line, post here, PM someone, PM me.
Contact with a caring human is the only thing that will help.
Say whatever you can manage to say to someone who will listen.
The question of whether suicide is selfish or a sin is pointless.
Many people commit suicide over a misguided sense of self-sacrifice.
Quite often whether someone commits suicide or not depends on the most trivial circumstance.
Consider that you could make that tiny difference.
Renate
Posted on: 08/01/29, 06:09:29
Quote from: tekla on January 29, 2008, 01:05:42 AM
... not the advice of random, untrained, people.
Quite often the advice of random, untrained people is the most important first tier of help for suicidal people.
That these random, untrained people may become a bit trained, there are Online Workshops (http://www.ncspt.org/workshops/default.asp)
from the National Center for Suicide Prevention Training (NCSPT).
Renate
The misguided self-sacrifice view makes sense.
Quote from: Audrey on January 29, 2008, 12:31:06 AM
All I am trying to say is that if your having a problem there is plenty of people, on this forum, and in real life, that can help. Just flat saying "I'm going to kill myself" doesn't really lend itself well to getting things figured out. Its too easy to get caught up in the thought of suicide as an answer instead of trying to deal with what is making you feel that way. Lets discuss solutions to problems, and not that solution. I have lost one too many people in my life to suicide and the aftermath is devastating.
Rereading Audrey's post, I for one, and maybe others, didn't fully understand the post. While it's fair to criticize the post, I think there is an idea here that is fair for discussion. Suicide shouldn't be treated lightly, but there are some people who threaten suicide for anything but wanting to actually commit suicide. The circumstances and/or situation in life isn't all that good, and thinking out loud often leads to expressed throught that aren't fully realized. And this is especially true on forums where you sometime forget the publicness of them.
I too have lost family and family of friends to suicide, both slow and insidious, and quick and dramatic. And everyone even thinking of suicide deserves help. But I will say the topic, even as expressed in the original post, is fair for dicussion. If we can't say what we think in an open environment, then what's left? The key is trying to find a positive way to express an negative thought or idea, and sometimes, like me, the results isn't always what I meant. But we're all human, and allowed to update our own words.
Thanks for thought.
--Susan--
Yes, people can - and do - commit it anywhere. Yes, it is a huge problem in our community. It's just that SF has a unique problem in being a mecca, the number one destination for it, a bridge with its own fatal grandeur, a monument, complete with its own documentary (The Bridge) - and its own long running public/political debate. The debate being, do we do extensive, expensive ($15 to 20 million), and no matter how you cut it, some pretty ugly modifications on something that is considered world-wide to be monument (and a symbol of our place) in order to stop it? And, as noted, it even has its own bus stop on the 28 (and the 29 too, the 76 on weekends, and every GGT bus).
The numbers are pretty shocking. So far - since 1937, over 1,200 have jumped, including Roy Raymond, the founder of Victoria's Secret, in 1993. 26 have survived - including one who came back and did it again. People jump and kill themselves there, on the average of 19 a year since its opened. In the peak year, 1977, there were 40 suicides, with current rates being a jumper every two weeks or so. That is of the ones we know about. So the people of the area are one of the few groups I know of that talks of suicide as a matter of public policy, and political debate because we are very aware that The Golden Gate Bridge is the world's No. 1 suicide magnet, in part because it makes suicide so easy.
I'm with Susan, and more than once I've been out there (as it is one of my favorite places, to walk, to ride my bike, take pictures, to stand and think) and picked up the call box and phoned the control booth or whatever it is and said "I think this person is in trouble." (And everyone who knows me is aware I'm not a real 'call the police' type.) Others I've asked, to make sure they are just contemplating their navel and not the end of days. On two occasions I've had the Highway Patrol come up to me and ask if I was OK - something about standing there and scribbling in a note book, or they don't see the camera and misunderstand that I'm waiting for the light to be just so - must have got some other good Samaritan to call me in or they were watching me on the cameras. I've been on it when people have gone. I have friends who've been driving across it when a car pulls over in front of them, someone gets out and then they're gone.
But the debate is interesting. Do we change it for everyone because a few use it in that way?
Support is not suicide counseling. It falls way short of that. Support is often more akin to cheerleading, "Go, Rah, Team!" and like cheerleading almost anyone can do it. But also like cheerleading, its not the game and it rarely effects the outcome. Suicide counseling is the real deal, and on that level takes some pretty serious training (with very serious people, with a high burnout rate), and I don't think its a bad thing to note, or to point people in that direction. It also tends to be one on one, and private, not a public posting. When the people trained for it are out on the the bridge, we all don't join in with our own versions of "life is worth living." We let the person who knows what they are doing, do it. If only because the "life is worth living" speech is one that often does more harm than good - because you are giving them reason for yourself, not them as a rule.
Quote from: Laura91 on January 29, 2008, 09:02:45 AM
I don't think that its wrong for anyone to vent about anything here if they have no one to talk to, no matter what the subject may be. For someone to label them as a "drama queen" or an "attention seeker" is pretty damn cold and insensitive in my opinion. Some people make the case that "so what? its just the internet? it does not matter", well, thats just a hypocritical cop out.
sorry, but thats just what some people are....
sorry to use a definition, but some people do use 'zomg suicidez' as a cry for attention... thats a simple fact, 'insensitivity'
R >:D
Quote from: Laura91 on January 29, 2008, 09:02:45 AM
I don't think that its wrong for anyone to vent about anything here if they have no one to talk to, no matter what the subject may be. For someone to label them as a "drama queen" or an "attention seeker" is pretty damn cold and insensitive in my opinion. Some people make the case that "so what? its just the internet? it does not matter", well, thats just a hypocritical cop out.
I have a Transsexual friend who attends Charing Cross GIC.....I've lost count of the times she's rung me and told me she's slit her wrists because she can't access treatment through the NHS.......some say they are gonna do it and some actually do it......there definitely needs to be more support for people, especially in the U.K where there isn't the support, councelling or therapy you have in the U.S.......I think we all get to a low point at one time or another (and I've been there) and
all cases should be taken seriously no matter what we think or what the circumstances may be...
We've all been there. Some of us may have been stopped by religious programming, others by the thought of what it would do to the people we love, some by fear of death more than fear of life, some because they were just too stubborn to quit.
We all get those times when it all just gets too much. Not every suicide rant is real, for sure. But we all know what it is we are dealing with, we all know how painful it can be to lose the people we love over it, to face an uncertain future, to be completely out of place just existing. Sometimes people just need a release, and we should respect that and help each other when we need that rather than get all hissy about it, one way or another. Some of us are lucky and we don't lose much in return for successful transition and acceptance. Some of us lose everything and come away with virtually nothing for it. For some of us the only place we can come to for support is here.
Quote from: lady amarant on January 29, 2008, 03:43:16 PM
We've all been there. Some of us may have been stopped by religious programming, others by the thought of what it would do to the people we love, some by fear of death more than fear of life, some because they were just too stubborn to quit.
We all get those times when it all just gets too much. Not every suicide rant is real, for sure. But we all know what it is we are dealing with, we all know how painful it can be to lose the people we love over it, to face an uncertain future, to be completely out of place just existing. Sometimes people just need a release, and we should respect that and help each other when we need that rather than get all hissy about it, one way or another. Some of us are lucky and we don't lose much in return for successful transition and acceptance. Some of us lose everything and come away with virtually nothing for it. For some of us the only place we can come to for support is here.
Quoteothers by the thought of what it would do to the people we love
This is what stopped me really. My mother wouldn't have been able to take it. I'm also stubborn, but that plays both ways, I'm also stubbornly not afraid of death. I feel much better now. It feels like so long ago, and it was just 2 years.
Wow,
I am always the saddest when think about suicide. It slips into my mind now and then for example last Wednesday at swimming when I thought 'Maybe I should not take HRT, stay male and if that does not work I will kill myself :'( '. Yeap thats is what cause all my problems last week. Beside writing it here I have only told one other person and I feel ashamed when these feelins just pop into my head.
It is important that we discuss these issues here - for many people they do not know they had depression until the reality of them being suicidal hits them. We need to be able to discuss these feelings to truly get the help we need. I was lucky in a way as I already new my doctor and cousellor before I needed them. Other may not be so lucky.
Alice
I was there 6 years ago. I tried to overdose on heroin many times but never quite did enough. After I was high I didn't feel like killing myself anymore. I moved on to more effective means and was 5150d twice. The last time I was saved by British television. I tried doing the gas thing which always worked on Crackers and other shows but didn't work on US stoves as they have a safety mechanism that cuts off the gas if the pilot is out. After that I called the cops on myself and began the long road of recovery from drug addiction, major depressive disorder and end-stage liver disease.
I've had tremendous success but I can see now that I've suffered episodic depression since adolescence. I don't consider myself cured either. It's a chronic condition that I need to watch as carefully as I do my liver disease. Therapy and anti-depressants have turned my life around. If you're feeling suicidal seek professional help. There's no need to suffer.
Since i believe in no god , suicide is not a sin . Audrey if it bothers you so much when someone talks about suicide, YOU can always put that person on ignore. You can ALSO not READ that post. Give it a try it really does work.
Perhaps, and I do not mean to speak for Audrey her, she does well enough on her own, that what she was trying to say (OK, I'm speaking for her) is that such constant messages are not sending the best idea forward. And what I was trying to say, what I did say, was that if that was what you thought, what you are thinking, please, please seek real help, not us.
I had a moment once that wasn't necessarily suicidal, but its the kind of thing everyone would interpret it as.
I did the typical cough syrup OD of the teens in this area, and part of me knew it was a bad idea, the other part thought it didn't "know" what it did. I basically had the idea that life would take me where I needed to go. I downed 3 bottles of Zicam nose spray and downed it with 4 Red Bulls. My heart went nuts, and I'd either be knocked out or waking up and trying to do a certain task (going to use the restroom I think). My brain started believing that my body was in fact dead, and that I was stuck in "purgatory" or what humans thought of it as. I had a disc scratch in reality, and I'd repeat the same task over and over and over again, until eventually, the mes getting up from the couch to go to the restroom overlapped each other. I finally screamed, and then the next me did the same, and et cetera et cetera. I felt myself floating up to my body, and woke up in a hospital bed. I felt like I was 3 feet tall towards the end of the trip. I never told my parents what I was thinking when I downed those bottles, ever. I don't really recall telling anyone. It severely changed my perspective on reality, and for a couple of days it "reconnected" me, and then it got worse. I've been floating on my own will ever since then, and continually being disconnected. I'm not suicidal, but I am most certainly miserable and feel like a lot isn't right inside my head.
I really do think all suicide posts should be taken seriously. It doesn't matter how much of an attention whore they are if they are the type to do so, the point is, is that I agree, It cannot be risked. When no one else is around to support someone in that state and snap them out of it (if thats indeed what is required), it pretty much seals their fate if they have no willpower left.
Quote from: Diane on January 29, 2008, 06:41:46 PM
Since i believe in no god , suicide is not a sin . Audrey if it bothers you so much when someone talks about suicide, YOU can always put that person on ignore. You can ALSO not READ that post. Give it a try it really does work.
sin or no sin, its a serious thing to claim your going to do... attention seaking, and imature.... ESPEICIALLY when you dont do it.
recently 7 children committed suicide in this one town in the uk.... after talking about it on the internet. (over a year)
people love the attention it afords them, and also, reading about suicide can drive others to it!
Its playing with emotions, if you really have a need to talk, TALK... dont state your going to die and bugger off......
are you just that nice that your letting everyone know your going to die, and not to pm you anymore?
heck, there was a post recently that was all 'osh i lost lots o stuff, i r gonna go top myself naw' and continued to debate in the topic never raising suicide again.
its melodramatic, unnecesery, and if you want to get peoples attention, or show how depressed you are, say, dont anounce that you may go kill yourself cos you're SO depressed mang...
Diane: god or no god, he exists for others, and last time i checked, you werent the one with a problem.
R
I concur with Chris and Diane. No one has to read a post if they are not interested in the subject of such thread. Also...let's not forget that the main objective of this site is support and people are free to express whatever it is that is bothering them.
Nevertheless, I also agree with Susan on the fact that suicide is not something to play around with. We have had several instances in the past when some people created so much chaos in an effort to just get the attention. Needless to say, this type of behavior is unacceptable and we have ways to find out who is being honest or just playing with the emotions of others.
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: Tink on January 29, 2008, 10:43:12 PM
Needless to say, this type of behavior is unacceptable and we have ways to find out who is being honest or just playing with the emotions of others.
... Ve hav veys of making you talk, ya? Mwahahahahaha!!!
;)
damn it i was about to say that! :D
tink = helga from alo alo? :P
R >:D
Ya hi Rachael, Ya I tried the pill thing to when I was 25 years old. The pills were little blue pills, Valium, I took half a bottle of them then just laid on the bed and waited, "Oh my!'' I went on the wildest trip ever in my life and never left my bed. I found myself grinning a lot at the ceiling for the rest of the night while still under the influence of the Valium.
Ya I was pretty lost after I reached the age of 25, late bloomer you know. I didn't even have a beard at the time. If I could have been able to grow a full beard, I could have went into any bar without getting carded. Well through out my teens on up to twenty five my appearances were very much that like a girl's and quite often got called miss, specially by those who didn't know me and I still stubbornly refused to cut my long hair.
Puberty at age twenty five is not good, for that mater it was an awful experience, much like what some of the girls here have already shared with others on other threads. Actually it turned out to be quite a horrid experience, even though I didn't know what the word transsexual was, I had never heard of it before. But there was still this GID playing its merry old tune on me, it felt much like an obsession or being possessed.
It certainly didn't get better through the years, until I stopped trying to kill myself with alcohol. After putting the cork back on the bottle I finally discovered there was light at the end of the tunnel after all, and it weren't no train. So yes, the thought of suicide was never very far from my thoughts during those years. Has anyone here ever experienced deep depression? It feels like a lead soccer ball in the the stomach and your entire body feels like it's petrified with fear
Hey!!! Even though I had left the church and religious teachings behind for a good many years, the thought "what if there is a hell?" These thoughts rang through my conscious mind like runaway fire alarms. Well, just let me say this, I decided I just wasn't in to terrible of a hurry to find out if there really was a Hell.
Cindy
Quote from: Rachael on January 29, 2008, 11:35:04 PM
damn it i was about to say that! :D
tink = helga from alo alo? :P
R >:D
Great minds think alike...
Or fools seldom differ. Never can decide which one applies to me. ;D
Only ever saw one episode of Alo Alo, back home in South Africa. Terrible that I'm not partking of the rich English culture while I'm over here, isn't it?
I'm feeling a little targeted, being one who suffers from the suicide threat syndrome, but I'm sorry... that was how I felt at the time, and fortunately, I got the response I needed. I had attempted to slit my wrists the night before, I had taken too many pills once or twice thereabouts, and you know what kept me from going over the edge?
Nero. Thank you, my friend, for never criticising me, but simply being there. I needed someone to talk to, and I found someone. I'm sorry if I caused anyone any grief because my post brought up bad feelings... I was desperate. Wait... I'm not sorry. And I'm no horrible sinner for considering a rightful end to my life when I felt there was no other way to go. I am a Christian, I believe full well in Jesus and the salvation he brings, and you know what? I sin. Everyone sins. Let the one who has never sinned cast the first stone.
Sebastien Dean
Hi Bas, GID is quite insidious and it is relentless, I believe it could make even the most strongest of spiritual or religious person, to kneel before it and cry like baby. I don't think it's a sin either. It is more like an instinct. It resides within the mind.
Cindy
Quote from: cindybc on January 30, 2008, 01:17:09 AM
Ya I was pretty lost after I reached the age of 25, late bloomer you know.
Hmmm. Interesting, 'cause it was only really when I reached about 24-25 that I started 'going male', and started really hating myself. Up till that point I'd always been taken for a woman on the phone, shaved about once a week, and would probably have passed as a woman with little effort.
So I'm wondering whether this is a fairly common thing in MtF trans-people. I think I'll create a topic...
I was wondering that too. I have heard some of the girls talking about that some time back not long ago
Cindy
Now that I've been burned in effigy I'm back to clarify on my original post. Basically what I was trying to say is one shouldn't cry wolf about suicide, and that the problems that are making you feel that way are solvable either by using a forum to gain a different perspective on the particular problem, or if that doesn't help you or you don't get the answer your looking for then maybe some counseling or medication will help. Just posting that your gonna end it all is only going to alarm people instead of helping to you to create a constructive solution to your problem.
For example, dear a certain member went through allot of sh*t lately and being harassed. Yeah it was a sh*tty deal and she had a hard time with it for awhile. However she didn't come out and say that she was contemplating suicide and bemoaning the injustices of the world. No she came here and after talking with others bounced back and did something about the situation.
(forgive me for using using the example babe).
Audrey
wahey, i understood Audrey the first time round.
still.
everyone's got a different way of dealing with things.
depends on their mental health. doesn't make them any less of a person if they do kill themselves.
it's the quiet ones you've got to look out for.
Pointed threats, they bluff with scorn
Suicide remarks are torn
From the fool's gold mouthpiece
The hollow horn plays wasted words
Proves to warn
That he not busy being born
Is busy dying.
Suicidal thoughts are not usually arrived at using logical thoughts. While I agree that sometimes people use the threat of suicide to gain sympathy, that is not usually the case.
The desire to commit suicide usually comes on quickly and needs to be addressed just as quickly and with loving care.
Sarah L.
I didn't find her post offensive, screamingly or even whisperingly.
I do and have worked with people who say they are gonna kill themselves, try to kill themselves and have killed themselves. And she is absolutely right about at least this much, as was tekla: if someone is in trouble they need someone who has a clue what they are doing to 'chat them down.'
Most successful suicides do not tell people when they are going to make their attempts. Often, that is why they are successful. Yet, many who make proclamations eventually stop making the proclamations and actually then do commit suicide.
Generally people who say they are going to are reaching toward some sort of relationship. They wish to know they are not alone and are appreciated for whom they may be, however fouled up that might seem.
I personally find it sad that we have reached a state in our world where pixels on a screen can be readily mistaken for 'people in relationship.' There is so much more to relationship than the writing of posts back and forth on internet.
But, regardless that, people do reach for relationship with others here, knowing that there are real people behind those pixels and they can imagine what and how those people are. So, they wish to be held and cared for, to know that they are not simply lone voices echoing in the dark and deserted alleys they imagine they inhabit.
And sometimes to reach out, even in pixels, is enough to reassure them that they are not meaningless. Suicide and despair are either twin-bothers or twin-sisters. They can appear to be rather seductive at times. They can hold you long enough that you imagine there is comfort and peace in their arms. And so, there may be.
If someone says they are going to commit suicide, outside of hospitals, there are a couple of immediate interventions that everywhere else in the profession uses most of the time. 1) Call the local mobile-crisis unit & 2) call the police to support and assist the crisis-team. Of course to do those things one must know where the person is when they are saying they are contemplating the suicide and 3) a risk-assessment must be made as well.
On a BB there is very little way that someone is going to be able to pin-point the location of the distraught person. So, 1) & 2) are generally not options. 3) is also problematic. How do I tell the difference between a 'lark- post' by someone wanting to find out if others will respond and how and the real statement of fact?
These are not easy calls to make, and as Audrey so very well pointed out there are other factors that may intrude as well, such as how the statement itself may 'trigger' unpleasant memories and reactions from others. Very like the ones that Audrey herself appears to have triggered from some posters in this thread.
Yet, what has she really said that seems so hurtful? That there are ways that someone might alleviate their own suicidal ideations? That is often accepted practice. The goal of cognitive-behavioral therapy and most of its off-shoots is to teach people to examine their own distorted thoughts: 'I am no good.' And then to find the flaws in that thought. Discover how to sooth the feelings that the thought gives rise to and to invent specific actions that can help the thinker realize the mistaken notion of their thoughts.
The goal of the therapy is that the patient becomes self-soothing and her own therapist. At least according to Judith Beck who wrote the book and whose father founded the school of therapy.
All interactions are complex. There are threads over threads and patterns within patterns that we may very well not see or be aware of. Universe is a web. What touches one of us resonates throughout the web and in some way touches us all.
Understanding that seems to be a first step in understanding that I am never as alone as I may think. Never as independent as I act. Never as heartless and cruel or as emotional and silly as I may feel or seem.
As a point of discussion, I think Audrey has done us all a service if we gave a moment or two to actually considering what she said rather than simply reacting to it.
Nichole
QuoteI don't appreciate people talking about killing themselves all the time.
QuoteSuicide is the worst answer to someones problems. I truly think that it is selfish and I am not religious, but I do think that it is a sin.
Everyone has their opinion, what is fantastic is this board, last time I have checked, was comprised of a whole lot of different people, each with their opinions and viewpoints. Thank you for sharing yours. Personally, the topics I don't 'appreciate' generally, I don't read.
Quotebut the problem is most do it for attention
I am amazed at the depth of perception you have shown being able to speak for the other billions of people on the planet, complete with their differences in culture, perspectives, views, and problems. Truely.
Jessica
Hi,
Last year I was suicidal a bunch of times and life seemed hopeless. I gave up on telling people and just attempted to kill myself, since the only response I ever got was "get yourself some help now" and "call the crisis line". However, I realized it was stemming from a few unresolved issues that were stressing me out. Probably the biggest one was that I felt trapped in a relationship that I wasn't happy being in. After I broke up with her, I have been SO much happier and I love my life. Even though I'm still pre-op, finding people who want to date me hasn't been a problem, albeit a bit more challenging once I came out to them. So, it's ok to ask for help, but being suicidal usually means you have unresolved issues. Just remember that those issues ARE solvable and happiness is definitely possible to achieve.
Quote from: Rachael on January 29, 2008, 11:35:04 PM
tink = helga from alo alo? :P
R >:D
That's it! I've had it. You are comparing me with that nazi woman? Where is that smite button? ;) ;D
You girls are just too funny. OMG!
Helga :icon_chick: ... I mean tink
Hi Audrey I agree with what you say, If this thread, forum, whatever is going to be used in an attempt to help those who might be suicidal, then that's what it should be used for. When I was here seven years ago I spent as much time as needed with who ever was suicidal or thinking about it. I use to call it rescue missions. As for myself I am usually around this board until 4:00 am 7:00 am Eastern time, and if anyone wishes to share, I be available. I have MSN Messenger as well as other Web chat facilities we can use for privacy.
Cindy
Posted on: January 30, 2008, 07:58:25 PM
Hi Nichole
QuoteBut, regardless that, people do reach for relationship with others here, knowing that there are real people behind those pixels and they can imagine what and how those people are. So, they wish to be held and cared for, to know that they are not simply lone voices echoing in the dark and deserted alleys they imagine they inhabit.
Yep it can happen, Wing Walker and I actually met her on this very message board five years ago. And yes at the time I was searching mostly for comfort and security of an other's arms. At the time I really didn't know what love was except for some romantic scene in a movie. Any love I had, had been pretty well beaten out of me.
But I always cared for other people in need and I chose to do that, in that manner, yes I did have love and compassion for others. I am a rescuer like I said before in the other post I submitted here . With the help of Wing Walker I did learn how to trust enough to actually discover that I was capable of love,
Ok that's enough about me but, Wing Walker and I rare not the only ones who have found soul mates on this message board. There are a few love birds on here and I wish and pray for them to find their happiness and love for one another in the real world out there.
Cindy
I never thought of the BBs as isolated, rather as another set of conversations I was having. I met my current GF on a BBs, and I've met many of the people I write to IRL. Though its interesting that few of them are in life as they are in their writing.
Quote from: tekla on January 30, 2008, 08:49:04 PM
I never thought of the BBs as isolated, rather as another set of conversations I was having. ... Though its interesting that few of them are in life as they are in their writing.
I think they sometimes replace any risk that connection requires us to make. As you say, 'few of them are in life as they are in their writing.' The American ideal of transforming one's self into a totally 'spiritual' entity so the 'unclean' body need no longer be a necessary part of one's self, perhaps.
The direction is one often taken on this continent below Canada and above Mexico.
A desire to be aethereal.
Delusional? possibly? probably. Like the Heaven's Gate cult, maybe?
N~
I'm not all into that spiritual aspect of life. I like real stuff, in real time, with real labor. I've always preferred work where I need a shower when I'm done as opposed to those where I need one before I go in. Granted its a lot like a circus in a submarine, but its pretty real nonetheless.
The writing vs. life is largely a matter of education and training. And, as a group of people, we are pretty highly educated. One of the things that education will give you is the ability to write in a 'voice' that exists on the page, and is not what anything sounds like off that page.
And I think that is what happens in some of the posts under discussion here. Perhaps poor word choice, or the lack of ability to have the right word (one of my favorite stats is that the average entering college freshman in 1960 had a working vocabulary of over 25K words, and the same entering freshman today is around 14K, and that is a heck of a difference) or they might be using over-expression as a means of expression. That does not make it any less valid, but perhaps it might make it somewhat less exact.
Quote from: tekla on January 30, 2008, 08:49:04 PM
I never thought of the BBs as isolated, rather as another set of conversations I was having. I met my current GF on a BBs, and I've met many of the people I write to IRL. Though its interesting that few of them are in life as they are in their writing.
I try to write like how I speak, I save the 'big words' for my thesis/essays. I want to meet others on the net in real life and don't want to come off as a pompous 'know-it-all' before I've even opened my mouth!! :o
But hey, I'm a big mouth anyway and usually have my foot permanently in it! I offend, I get offended, it's just one big round-a-bout! But I'm a big girl, I can handle the sh*t......... sometimes. ;D
Here I go again.......
I agree with many who have suggested that Audrey should ignore posts that offend or upset her.
Asking people not to post is not an option IMO. If someone is suicidal, how are we to know if they have anyone to help them or not? Somebody could help them here, just encouraging a person that they are worthwhile is helping even in such a small way, I think.
People who commit suicide can and do talk about it, while others do not. A big give-away that they will act upon it is when a suicidal person does talk about it for weeks or even months, then they stop talking about it and are extraordinarily happy. This is an euphoric state they get into when they finally decide to take their life and don't want to be talked out of it anymore. They have chosen the date, the means and the place. The End. *scuttles away under rock*
Is there room under that there rock with me and my critter friend that way there will be three pairs of eyes shining in the dark under the rock..... Hmmm maybe we should gt a bigger rock..
Cindy
I think the point here people are missing, is that some folk do it for drama 'oh noes, i r keeel myself' posts are bad... genuine outreach and asking for help are another.... the way things are phrased are important too....
some people just really enjoy the attention.
R >:D
I guess what we are saying is if someone desperately needs attention we should silence them and ignore them cause giving them a little attention would be just to damn hard for us and really inconvenient.
beth
Hi beth and all
Yes there are those that will wine and bitch, they would scream if they were hung with a new rope as Wing Walker says. There are also fakes and sh-t disturbers in every board one goes to, no mater what the group is representing. The deep thinker may be for the most part silent observers or speak with few words and will not show any sign that they are contemplating suicide, the silent sufferers as they are also called.
Or those who are timid in nature will shy away at the first sign of a conflict, not saying a word as they go out the back door. This was why I told everyone in a post back there on this thread that I am at many times up until 7:00 am intermittently checking out this message this board. I will talk to anyone no mater if they belong to any of the categories I have mentioned above. I also wanted to remind all that if it is a private chat that one wants, I know where I can access a few web chats.
Cindy
For me I think suicide post should be taken seriously. I don't feel that I could help a suicidal person and I'm not to far from my issues. What people said to me had unpredictable results. I don't like replying to these posts even though I do sometimes I don't want to do harm. I just don't want to be the one who sends someone over the edge and I also worry about not posting and not being supportive. So it put me in a conundrum.
Later,
Anna
All I have to say is, its not a cop out. There are emotions and suitations and such, that you could never imagine, that strike people down and lead to suicide. I have the utmost respect for people who commit suicide...for all the ->-bleeped-<- they go through.
suicide is the worst thing you can do, it takes away your chance to achieve great things. You many not find opportunities and you may feel your life is destined failure. I've been there & trust me- their are many chances & opportunities- you have to look closely.
Killing yourself will deprive you of a great gift and a chance to make something of yourself. You will always be remembered of sorrow but never of achievement, no matter who noteworthy your achievements will be, they will be forgotten with grief.
were somewhat missing the point about people who herd thier drama llamas into the forums to graze and post things, and then continue to post after saying 'goodbye all im gonna go kill myself!'
R >:D
yep, attempted suicide should carry the death penalty ;)
now try to actually read my post renate... ;)
R >:D
Quote from: zombiesarepeaceful on February 04, 2008, 06:02:49 PM
All I have to say is, its not a cop out. There are emotions and suitations and such, that you could never imagine, that strike people down and lead to suicide. I have the utmost respect for people who commit suicide...for all the ->-bleeped-<- they go through.
Interesting perspective Zombie, though I see where you're coming from. I approach it more along the lines of "Do as though wilt...", meaning that my life is my own to choose to do with as I will. I might disagree with another person's choice to themselves, but since I don't know their circumstances, that's not a fair judgement. No judgment ever is, because it's coloured by my perspective, and it's incomplete in respect of the circumstances of the person you are judging.
I know people driven to suicide by the U.K NHS clinic system....and two attempted suicides for the same reason so I'm not about to take the subject lightly.....It's a very serious issue and all cries for help should be taken very seriously...
Not all of a person's achievements will be forgotten if they commit suicide. Just look at all the famous people who've committed suicide, and lived on in the memory of others. Remembered for their life, not their death.
QuoteYou will always be remembered of sorrow but never of achievement, no matter who noteworthy your achievements will be, they will be forgotten with grief.
This statement is entirely wrong.