After becoming a "postie," I tried dating a variety of people in the gender spectrum:
(1) MEN
While I treasure how "female" dating a man made me feel, most were too sexually aggressive for me. I stated that I wanted to start out as friends but few men respected my desire. They wanted something more. I'll confess that I'm not crazy about sex because (1) I'm not good at it and, perhaps because of that, (2) I have little interest. I love hugging and being close but I had one man complain, "I'm not a teddy bear!"
(2) WOMEN
Dating women felt more natural to me because they didn't mind hugging. Since becoming a "postie" child, I've mainly dated lesbians because I'm so used to women. It feels comfortable. Unfortunately, after the lesbians found out I had a (male) past, they were otta there. There are probably possibilities there but, so far, no connection.
(3) M2F
I once had an M2F friend over to my place and I began to sense that she was looking at me with more than a friend's eyes. I had no interest in M2F's. I can't explain why. It's like trying to explain why you don't like a certain food. Or maybe I saw their flaws as my flaws: For example, I noticed that no matter how pretty their face was, they, like me, would never have the hourglass waist typical of GG's.
(4) F2M
My last attempt in the gender spectrum was interesting and informative. While I had protested to my electrologist that I would never date a transsexual, I had the chance, a few months ago, to date an F2M. I was surprised that the relationship didn't cause any alarms to ring. Things that the F2M's would consider a hinderance (like hourglass figures) made me MORE attracted to them. I began theorizing that in some crazy way in the scheme of life, maybe this was the way it was meant to be. Here was a person who understood the joys and angst of transition. Here was a person who was female once so those parts in him made me feel comfortable. His manly take charge attitude, while respectful of my needs, pleased me. I began thinking that this person was an idealized version of the male I used to be -- a sensitive male.
Unfortunately, he left town before I really could make up my mind about it. I've always said, when people ask me which I prefer, that it doesn't matter. It's what's inside that counts.
I was wondering what experiences, if any, F2M's have with dating M2F's (or vice versa).
Thanks in advance,
Teri Anne
I haven't dated anyone since my marriage broke up a year and a half ago. I'm getting to the stage where I might be ready, but not there yet. Some of it is still body dysphoria. While I like the changes that have happened so far, the fewer clothes I'm wearing, the less happy I am.
I wouldn't rule anything out when I start dating, though. I think relationship-wise, I am most likely to end up with a woman, be she bio or MtF. I have noticed slightly more bisexual tendencies since starting testosterone than I thought I had, but I still can't see a relationship with a guy.
Edit: oh, and I don't have an hourglass shape by any means. My waist measurement exceeds my hip measurement by more than a few inches (yay for testosterone-induced spare tire).
Dennis
Thanks for responding to my post, Dennis. You stated you're feeling "body dysphoria" and you're feeling less happy as time passes. I know you've mentioned, in the other posts, an uncomfortable feeling of not knowing by automatic instinct how men act. Shouldn't time passage HELP with the process on how to act instinctively? Shouldn't time passage HELP dissipate your "body dysphoria?" But you say you're feeling "less happy?"
Being you seem to be evolving into a heterosexual male, what gender did you date pre-transition?
I've sometimes wondered if a bi woman would be more open to what I am. She would see a little of both genders in me and not be repulsed by either.
BTW, Dennis. Parts of your previous posts and this one (wherein you applauded your "testosterone-induced spare tire") made me smile. I've often heard that a big turn-on to women is man's sense of humor. I think you're going to be very popular.
Teri Anne
No no no, I'm not feeling less happy as time passes, I'm feeling more happy as time passes. I'm less happy with my body when I'm wearing fewer clothes. Dating tending to involve some nudity at some stage, I've shied away from it for now. I like to keep my clothes on. Makes me feel more like a whole man. I used to have body dysphoria even when I was dressed, now I don't have it at all when I'm fully dressed or walking around with my shirt off. So it's a huge improvement. Just that I ain't ready to get nekkid yet.
And the social stuff, I'm getting more comfortable with it and getting more used to it. I just sometimes get surprised by what is instinctive and natural for male-born men that I still have to learn. The handshake thing is one. They shake hands much more often than women do. Almost as often as dogs sniff each other's butts. Seems to be as a response to the same situations as dogs sniff butts too. Perhaps I'll just watch my dog and see if I can pick up a few pointers. Must remember to translate that to handshaking though.
Pre-transition, I dated exclusively women and had a complete aversion to men. The latter is what has changed a bit. I still wouldn't say I'm attracted to men though.
Thanks for the vote of confidence about sense of humour, cause I sure ain't tall, dark or handsome. Or rich enough to forgive the lack of height, darkness, or handsomeness. Cute's about the best I can manage.
Dennis
I'm glad you're feeling better as time passes - thanx for clearing that up. You seem to have remained being sexually attracted to the same gender you preferred pre-transition. I tried dating a variety in the gender spectrum but, I admit, I feel more COMFORTABLE with what I'm used to.
As to your dog, I think you should look elsewhere for pointers. The last thing we want to hear is that you've started "spotting" your territory, chewing your shoes or howling at the moon...
"Aaaaooooo!"
"Bad dog!"
Teri Anne
My dating experience is basically null, but I have noticed my attraction to guys is based much more on who they are (mentally I mean) than appearances.
Quote from: Teri Anne on March 14, 2006, 04:03:09 PM...
I've sometimes wondered if a bi woman would be more open to what I am. She would see a little of both genders in me and not be repulsed by either.
...
Oddly enough I've thought similar in regards to a cross-dresser husband, but rather in what
I want to see in them.
In the same vein my attraction (as the 'bi woman') to a M2F I think depends to much on her... as we all know we are all pretty dissimilar.
P.s. Cute > tall (=
Quote from: Teri Anne on March 14, 2006, 04:03:09 PM
I've sometimes wondered if a bi woman would be more open to what I am. She would see a little of both genders in me and not be repulsed by either.
Yes they are. That's why me and my wife are still together.
Melissa
"Perhaps I'll just watch my dog and see if I can pick up a few pointers. Must remember to translate that to handshaking though."
Dennis,
I'm dyin' here - R O T F L M A O!
(imagining what might - oh gosh here I go again! ;D)
helen
Hey Terri Anne,
well, as time goes by and I'm moving forward towards the possibility of transitioning more and more... I guess you could consider me an ftm dating and mtf. Of course we're both pre / (she almost in ) transition... but it works pretty well, in spite of the obvious alarm bells you might expect... though I am interested in dating both genders anyway, the weirdness of dating someone who wnats to do to their body the exact opposite of what you want... it is confusing sometimes, but we also understand each other's TG situation very well and that helps.
I do have body-dysphoria issues, and this is sometimes hard fro Mariska.. Much of the time we are both surprised how little bodies can matter when you completely understand each other and you can really see the other person for who they really are... and know yourself to be seen for who you really are...
but it is difficult. I'm going through a stone butch "don't touch me" phase currently and that confused Mariska who feels rejected...
still understanding each other's TG, and being able to talk about this openly, - we talk a LOT-... that is great, and helps a lot to deal with the dysphoria, for both of us.
making any sense??
x
Alex
yes to me it makes sense,
and however i want to be huged by Alex i can understand these feelings at laest i try to
Hi, Alex,
Interesting, what you two are doing. I've often hoped that a better way around a couple, like you two, would be brain transplants instead of the time consuming, painful and not perfect results we get by today's methods. Oh, well. I'm glad you two found each other. It's great to have someone who can relate to what you're going through w/ gender dysphoria. I'm sure most people think, "Huh?" You are going in the direction that was meant for you.
Good luck to you both! I'm happy for you.
Teri Anne
Yes, Teri Anne,
you're right, brain transplants would be better in theory ... some of the leading surgeons of the Genderteam here have said the same thing... but then... it would be the right type of body but not yours... would that not lead to a different kind of dysphoria? Like, I'd rather be disfigured for life than have a facial transplant and wear someone else's face for the rest of my life...
and yeah, some people do say 'huh?' about, but we also get some really cool reactions, so far ... though there's a bunch of people in both our lives who are not ready for this news yet, so, we'll see how that goes in the future...
to Mariska: I know and thank you. {{hugs}} :icon_flower: :icon_hug: :icon_kiss:
x
Alex
QuoteThings that the F2Ms would consider a hinderance (like hourglass figures) made me MORE attracted to them.
It's great you're attracted to us, but F2Ms have hourglass figures?
That's news to me.
Nero
Heh, yeah, I haven't seen too many with hourglass figures except maybe early in transition.
Dennis
To me, the fact that most of them lack male genitals, makes them more attractive to me than Genetic Males. But, that's just me.
Melissa
Melissa,
You sound like my mom. She says,"I love men, but the penis is just such an unattractive appendage, well, I just don't look at it for too long."
Nero
FtM dating MtF
My best friend is a (extremely attractive) MtF transexual her mate or husband for the past 4yrs as been a FtM Transexual (also equal attractive but more so with the muscle thing)
Anyway,
She always considered that a no-no in her book Util she confided in me that she was sexual attract to HIM but she still had hang-ups because in her Eyes she knew "he didn't have the right equipment for her"
I simply told her if your attracted to him sexual and there's an obvious mental connection between the 2 of you say "go for it girl and have some fun" Thinking that it was just going to be a fling between the two of them but I mean WOW they been together for 4yrs and have a little girl (that was a wierd pregnancy)LOL ;) but it can and does work....She states "After 40 years of dating men I turn out in a real heterosexual relationship!"
PS she is a post op but identifies her self as a gay male first and transexual second.
As for me...I take all individuals as they come gender and sex mean absolutely nothing to me in the respects of whom I'm attracted to It's all 95% a mental thingy....Although I would prefer an individual who has an appendage that pokes me when I hug them! ;) But I know some FtM MEN who do!!! ;)
So for me once I have a mental conection the physical (sex) aspect of the relationship just falls into place nicely!
A mytery, surrounded by an Enigma, shrouded in Anonymity
Chynna
Tinkerbell,
I am perplexed! I thoughtyou would have said "yes" for sure.
Marco
My FTM husband and I (MTF) have been married for 6 1/2 years. We married before either of us had surgery. It has worked very well for us.
We know several other MTF/FTM couples. Two didn't work out - including one high profile couple - but after all is said and done, we are regular people with regular problems.
We'll be at the FTM Gender Odyssey in Seattle in a couple of weeks. I'll be on the lookout for "mixed" couples.
Robyn
Heh, wish I could go to Gender Odyssey, but second year in a row my plans have been foiled by the Canadian Government. Last year it was because I had submitted my citizenship card for change and it took 10 months to get back to me. Now I had to submit the card, which I finally got, to get a new passport, which I won't have by labour day. Gah!
Dent
Quote from: Tinkerbell on August 18, 2006, 11:06:46 PM
Quote from: Marco on August 18, 2006, 08:40:50 PM
Tinkerbell,
I am perplexed! I thoughtyou would have said "yes" for sure.
Marco
Oh...Marco...you see this is why I usually avoid questions like this. I wish I coud say "yes" but I would be lying if I did. I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound insensitive towards women, MTF's or FTM's, but this is how I am and how I feel. I've thought a lot about this, but my answer remains the same...I would never date a woman, a MTF or a FTM, that's just me, only me, and not a Tinkerbell's law or anything of that sort. :)
tinkerbell
Hey Tink,
Don't feel bad. People are attracted to what they're attracted to. I'm attracted to what I'm attracted to, and it's nothing against a person or group of people if I don't see them as dating material. There are people I wouldn't date (I think).
Nero
[edit]Susan: Image cleanup from prior edit, removed it from the quote[/edit]
Quote from: Nero on August 18, 2006, 11:40:46 PM
Hey Tink,
Don't feel bad. People are attracted to what they're attracted to. I'm attracted to what I'm attracted to, and it's nothing against a person or group of people if I don't see them as dating material. There are people I wouldn't date (I think).
Nero
Thank you handsome, you don't know how great your words have made me feel.!
tinkerbell
[edit] Susan: removed non-signature image[/edit]
Tinkerbell,
I'm sorry I made you feel bad. I was really only kidding. You are so sweet for being concerned. That is what I love about you. Your honest compassion.
Marco
It's been a while since this topic was created and since then I have had the opportunity to be with an FTM. Knowing they were born female made me less apprehensive about being with them, but after we got together, make no mistake, but there was nothing female about him. This really changed my perceptions in 2 ways:
1. As far as I'm concerned FtMs are 100% male.
2. It's alright for me to find men attractive.
Melissa
Quote from: Melissa on August 20, 2006, 03:25:58 PM
I have had the opportunity to be with an FTM. there was nothing female about him. This really changed my perceptions in 2 ways:
1. As far as I'm concerned FtMs are 100% male.
2. It's alright for me to find men attractive.
Melissa
Tell me about it! :icon_redface:
[edit]Susan: removed non-signature image[/edit]
Never even considered it before.
Marco
Quote from: Marco on August 31, 2006, 09:58:39 PM
Never even considered it before.
Marco
Before posting my previous replies, no I hadn't even considered this a possibility. However, I've realized that I was totally wrong and that I don't think this way anymore. The answer now is "yes I can be attracted to FTM's."
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
So what caused this change of heart Tinkerbell?
Marco
Quote from: Marco on August 31, 2006, 10:16:08 PM
So what caused this change of heart Tinkerbell?
Marco
I guess I had always met FTM"s that were very masculine in appearance but feminine at heart and soul. I had never met a FTM who was so sure of his masculinity to the point of behaving, dressing, thinking, talking, and breathing like any other bio man out there. It has been very surprising and a learning lesson for myself; I honestly believe that this entire experience has made me realize that I was wrong, very wrong.
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
Quote from: Tinkerbell on August 31, 2006, 10:27:07 PM
I guess I had always met FTM"s that were very masculine in appearance but feminine at heart and soul. I had never met a FTM who was so sure of his masculinity to the point of behaving, dressing, thinking, talking, and breathing like any other bio man out there. It has been very surprising and a learning lesson for myself; I honestly believe that this entire experience has made me realize that I was wrong, very wrong.
:icon_no: I'm pretty sure Marco's taken Tinkerbell.
Melissa
Quote from: Melissa on August 31, 2006, 10:29:41 PM
Quote from: Tinkerbell on August 31, 2006, 10:27:07 PM
I guess I had always met FTM"s that were very masculine in appearance but feminine at heart and soul. I had never met a FTM who was so sure of his masculinity to the point of behaving, dressing, thinking, talking, and breathing like any other bio man out there. It has been very surprising and a learning lesson for myself; I honestly believe that this entire experience has made me realize that I was wrong, very wrong.
:icon_no: I'm pretty sure Marco's taken Tinkerbell.
Melissa
Melissa, I was not talking about Marco in particular, but about my entire perspective towards FTM's in general.
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
Ok, I see. :) I had a similar experience, except it was in reverse. I was ok being with FtMs, but he was so male, that now I feel like it's ok to be with men.
Melissa
Melissa,
Are you sure she is talking about me?
Posted on: August 31, 2006, 10:36:20 PM
Tink,
Are you changing your story?
Well, from what I understand, your the only strongly male FtM she's met recently. ;) But, I think she was saying that *you* changed her outlook on *all* FtMs.
Melissa
Quote from: Marco on August 31, 2006, 10:37:57 PM
Melissa,
Are you sure she is talking about me?
Posted on: August 31, 2006, 10:36:20 PM
Tink,
Are you changing your story?
No Marco I am not changing my story, but at the same time I don't want anyone to get the wrong ideas around here. I am posting this because you are asking, and I thought my experience would be an interesting post for those people who think like I used to, that's all. :)
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
I think you have a point there Melissa. She did tell me how very different I am from the other 2 guys she knows. 8)
It is just funny to know that some would seem to know our lives better than ourselves. As far as I know all the FTM's I know seem to be strongly male. I should definetely start writing a diary and post every page here, so that everyone will know every little tiny detail about my personal life.... ::) ::) ::)
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
Nothing against the guys, but I'd never date a FTM. not my type of men.
LOL!!! I cannot tell you how much I have enjoyed this thread.
QuoteNothing against the guys, but I'd never date a FTM. not my type of men.
Maybe you should go back and read the whole thread. All it takes is one person to change your mind -- and to open you up to new experiences.
I've dated all through the spectrums, except for the male thang. If s/he has a "you know what," I am not interested, but some of the coolest people I've ever known have been guys that transitioned. For me, sexual attraction is all about the genitalia. Secondary sex characteristics don't mean much to me. So, just speaking for me, if I like the person, and they "have the right equipment," than I don't think twice about the gender role thing.
I've been the bottom in some relationships, and the top in others -- I prefer the top. When you are as assertive as me, it's tough to find someone capable of topping you. :: sigh ::
But, it's been fun to see how other people approach this, and how we can all evolve over time.
You can teach an old dog new trix -- I saw it on mythbusters.
Teri Anne,
My first boyfriend was a F2M. It was a good experience in that I felt safe with him, but bad in the sense he was frankly an ignorant jerk.
I don't know. The other thing that bothered we is that there was frankly too much trans drama there. Frankly ONE transsexual in a relationship is enough of that. It's GBs for me.
Bri
PS - I have an hourglass figure, thank you very much.
Quote from: Yvonne on March 25, 2007, 06:47:39 AM
Nothing against the guys, but I'd never date a FTM. not my type of men.
I'll only agree with that if you're talking about plumbing and not personality.
~ Blair
I'd have no problem dating a FTM if the attraction was there. But I think in the back of my mind I'd be thinking I was with a woman. Since I'm lez I'd be okay with that. And I think that would ultimately be a problem with him as it would with me if a gay guy was okay dating me because he saw me as a man.
Julie
and how in the world did this thread get to the surface again? ;) ;D
Wow....someone has been looking through the cold files. Be careful now, you may encounter lots of surprises, secrets, things of that nature! ;D >:D
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: Blair on March 25, 2007, 04:12:57 PM
Quote from: Yvonne on March 25, 2007, 06:47:39 AM
Nothing against the guys, but I'd never date a FTM. not my type of men.
I'll only agree with that if you're talking about plumbing and not personality.
~ Blair
Is it just me or do other people find the above quote to be EXTREMELY offensive to FTMs! To me the statement "Not my type of men because they dont have the right plumbinG" pretty much implies "Not real men" but maybe thats just me *shrug*
Either way I shuddered when I read this post
Cheers: Patty
i'm a lesbian and i'm not attracted to men.
Quote from: GQPAT on March 26, 2007, 02:57:50 AM
Quote from: Blair on March 25, 2007, 04:12:57 PM
Quote from: Yvonne on March 25, 2007, 06:47:39 AM
Nothing against the guys, but I'd never date a FTM. not my type of men.
I'll only agree with that if you're talking about plumbing and not personality.
~ Blair
Is it just me or do other people find the above quote to be EXTREMELY offensive to FTMs! To me the statement "Not my type of men because they dont have the right plumbinG" pretty much implies "Not real men" but maybe thats just me *shrug*
Either way I shuddered when I read this post
Cheers: Patty
dunno, depends on what context it was said. there are lots of women who aren't my [type] either, meaning that i dont find them attractive, is that offensive? probably not. but if i say, mtf transexuals aren't my type [because] i dont see them as [women], then i agree, it is uncalled for. btw i didnt read anything about [plumbing] or [real men] on yvonne's post. did i miss something? ???
Quote from: GQPAT on March 26, 2007, 02:57:50 AM
Quote from: Blair on March 25, 2007, 04:12:57 PM
Quote from: Yvonne on March 25, 2007, 06:47:39 AM
Nothing against the guys, but I'd never date a FTM. not my type of men.
I'll only agree with that if you're talking about plumbing and not personality.
~ Blair
Is it just me or do other people find the above quote to be EXTREMELY offensive to FTMs! To me the statement "Not my type of men because they dont have the right plumbinG" pretty much implies "Not real men" but maybe thats just me *shrug*
Either way I shuddered when I read this post
Cheers: Patty
I didn't imply that at all.
I wouldn't dare judge FtMs as people, which is why I felt it necessary to respond. They can be any type of man, really, so of course I wouldn't discriminate. The only issue in my particular case is that I'm rather sexual, and like being able to enjoy that aspect of my man's masculinity (the ability to penetrate, also why I could never be a lesbian.)
Of course it doesn't make them less of a man, but it does sort of hinder their ability to satisfy my needs sexually. That's pretty much it.
I don't know what you want me to say otherwise. I can't supress a physical need.
~ Blair
Actually, Julie's comment was more offensive. We all know we're missing certain plumbing items and if someone can't deal with that, that's cool. That's their thing. But anyone thinking I'm female is way more offensive than that. So, to think of it, is a broad generalization of FtM's as a "type of men".
Pointing out the obvious isn't overly offensive imo. But there are ways of compensating for the plumbing issue ;)
Dennis
Quote from: Blair on March 26, 2007, 03:59:43 AM
Quote from: GQPAT on March 26, 2007, 02:57:50 AM
Quote from: Blair on March 25, 2007, 04:12:57 PM
Quote from: Yvonne on March 25, 2007, 06:47:39 AM
Nothing against the guys, but I'd never date a FTM. not my type of men.
I'll only agree with that if you're talking about plumbing and not personality.
~ Blair
Is it just me or do other people find the above quote to be EXTREMELY offensive to FTMs! To me the statement "Not my type of men because they dont have the right plumbinG" pretty much implies "Not real men" but maybe thats just me *shrug*
Either way I shuddered when I read this post
Cheers: Patty
The only issue in my particular case is that I'm rather sexual, and like being able to enjoy that aspect of my man's masculinity (the ability to penetrate, also why I could never be a lesbian.)
I can't supress a physical need.
Two words with one hyphen....strap-on!
Ta-da and with that all your penetration issues are solved!
Cheers: Patty
Honey, take the pepsi challenge and compare the real thing to a strap-on. You tell me if there's a difference.
And thanks for clarifying that Dennis. That's pretty much what I was trying to say initially, that I did find it offensive that someone would assume all FtMs are a "type of man" in who they are, which is completely stupid. The only thing they all have in common is a lack of a certain appendage that I just happen to really, really like.
I hope I'm not making anyone shudder again.
~ Blair
Pre transition I only dated women. with one exception my current BF he is a gay man. When we met I was very androgynous he wasn't sure what he was getting ;D We both enjoy both sexes as on many occasion we have had threesomes with both men and women, my BF prefers the dominate (top) role so his preference is other submissive males (bottoms) like me, or females that like anal sex he doesn't care for anal sex but enjoys giving it ;D nor does he like to penetrate a vagina. I can't physically penetrate anything, post orchi now and I am a very limp atrophied happy little girl :)
QuoteHoney, take the pepsi challenge and compare the real thing to a strap-on. You tell me if there's a difference.
No thank you, very much! I'll stick with my coke.
For me, pepsi is way too sticky and looses it's fizz way too early to be satisfying. ;)
plus coke comes in many designer packages sure to please everyone. :o
Touching on Dennis' point -- I don't personally view guys that have transitioned one kind of person, or another. When it comes to gender role labeling, I sinply don't care. All I care about is whether that person prefers coke over pepsi.
Quote from: GQPAT on March 26, 2007, 02:57:50 AM
Quote from: Blair on March 25, 2007, 04:12:57 PM
Quote from: Yvonne on March 25, 2007, 06:47:39 AM
Nothing against the guys, but I'd never date a FTM. not my type of men.
I'll only agree with that if you're talking about plumbing and not personality.
~ Blair
Is it just me or do other people find the above quote to be EXTREMELY offensive to FTMs! To me the statement "Not my type of men because they dont have the right plumbinG" pretty much implies "Not real men" but maybe thats just me *shrug*
Either way I shuddered when I read this post
Cheers: Patty
What? I never said anything bad or disparaging about females to males. Since you care to know, they are not my type of men because normally I like very tall guys and most of the females to males I know are short. Is this offensive to say? I wonder what I can say that isn't offensive. it has nothing to do with their genitals, equipment or the things you said.
Many of us are short. My friend Max is 6'3, and another friend is 6'1. Not all of us are. And, many bio guys are short. At 5'5 or 5'6, I'm definitely not the shortest male in town.
So that is painting a whole group of people with one brush. It's like saying all MtF's have adams apples, which you don't.
Dennis
I was surprised to see that this post was still active (I started it on 3-14-06). Then, I read the threads and saw the arguments building...nothing seems to keep a thread going better than disagreements, lol. I guess it's like story structure...you need conflict to get people to turn the pages.
Part of me wishes that we, at Susan's, are here to HELP one another, not fight or disagree. On the other hand, if we are not honest with ourselves and with others regarding what we REALLY FEEL, what hope is there for general society to find peace in what we are and what we do? We have to work through our differences in hopes of finding out what we, ourselves, think. To find OUR PEACE.
I will point out, though, that the post originally asked for "F2M's Dating M2F's - Your Experiences?" (not your PRESUMED preference) I started out by telling you my experiences and, as some of you have pointed out, you may THINK you don't want to date some "type" of person but, then surprise! Surprise! You really like this person!
We are all different, even within "types." So, I'll keep my options open. And heck, if my present path doesn't work out, I may just start kissing toads. There may be a princess or prince locked up in one of those toads. And I WOULD like living near the water!
Teri Anne
I misread the topic and thought they were talking about MTFs dating FTMs and not the other way around. if something is said incorrectly about I supposedly said, I have the right to disagree. I was just saying that nowhere in my post I mentioned about the genitals of FTM's or that they were not real men. I was clarifying and not arguing.
Yvonne, my thoughts weren't directed at anyone in particular. And, yes, I agree that you have a right to disagree. Clarifying is always good. Hopefully, as I mentioned, as we think and talk about it, we get clarification on how we, ourselves, truly feel. Sometimes, as I talk or write, I'll think, "I didn't know I had such a strong feeling about it, but I do."
Teri Anne
QuoteAnd heck, if my present path doesn't work out, I may just start kissing toads. There may be a princess or prince locked up in one of those toads. And I WOULD like living near the water!
LoL, I may use that sometime, Teri Anne!
Dennis
huh! some people really stand between the lines of politeness and inappropriateness, don't they? it must be the testosterone or something. big difference on how two women approach each other!
In my experience, cisgender men and women who date trans* women or men are either sexually confused or completely tired of cisgender women or men. As you can imagine that was a big issue for me being a transgender woman, because I did not want to be a sexual experiment or seen different from other women. Can cisgender men and women really view transgender women and men as "real" women and men or only as something different?
I am a MTF married to a transitioning FTA. (female to androgyne) Not quite FTM but very similar in medical needs and social dynamics.
Honestly, I can not see being in a relationship with a cisgender person ever again. Being with a trans* spouse means never having to explain why dysphoria is destroying me any particular time. It means never having my gender questioned in the sac. A trans spouse/lover understands very intimatly why things have to be the way they have to be in the romance department.
With a cisgender lover/spouse I wouldn't have that intimate knowing that I share with my trans* spouse.
Quote from: Realdimensionaltggirlhere on September 03, 2012, 03:23:53 PM
Can cisgender men and women really view transgender women and men as "real" women and men or only as something different?
I believe they can.
Quote from: cynthialee on September 03, 2012, 04:58:42 PM
Honestly, I can not see being in a relationship with a cisgender person ever again. Being with a trans* spouse means never having to explain why dysphoria is destroying me any particular time. It means never having my gender questioned in the sac. A trans spouse/lover understands very intimatly why things have to be the way they have to be in the romance department.
With a cisgender lover/spouse I wouldn't have that intimate knowing that I share with my trans* spouse.
I can definitely appreciate your point, and I can see that being a huge plus in a trans/trans relationship. As long as the two people are on the same wavelength, which you and Sevan definitely seem to be. :)
That said...I have known some transwomen who are really, really ignorant of my issues because they are so caught up in their own (not that I have been in a relationship with them, but just in conversation and such). Some of them would make me more dysphoric, uncomfortable, and offended than a cisgender person who was struggling to understand.
I have also known some transwomen who I could definitely see myself with, because we have similar views and understanding when it comes to our own experiences and pains associated with transition. In that case, it would be a huge benefit of the relationship.
I was also with a cisgender woman, and in the entire time I have known her, I really believe that she sees me as a guy. She was really understanding of all my issues with dysphoria and my body, was always very respectful, and knew how to make me comfortable. The only times she did not understand was when my dysphoria made me a little sexually distant, but that was because she had a poor self-esteem and thought it meant I didn't like her or want her.
Quote from: Realdimensionaltggirlhere on September 03, 2012, 03:23:53 PM
In my experience, cisgender men and women who date trans* women or men are either sexually confused or completely tired of cisgender women or men. As you can imagine that was a big issue for me being a transgender woman, because I did not want to be a sexual experiment or seen different from other women. Can cisgender men and women really view transgender women and men as "real" women and men or only as something different?
I've dated a cisgender woman who viewed me as a man completely. It was good times.
I think cis people who date trans people exclusively often have something funky going on but if they find my being trans as unimportant that's all wavy gravy.
To me, f2ms and m2fs are kindred spirits with a lot in common. The hardest part it seems is that f2ms trend to be shorter and m2fs tend to be taller. There is added difficulty in this society for men to be shorter than their women.
Audrey
Quote from: Realdimensionaltggirlhere on September 03, 2012, 03:23:53 PM
In my experience, cisgender men and women who date trans* women or men are either sexually confused or completely tired of cisgender women or men. As you can imagine that was a big issue for me being a transgender woman, because I did not want to be a sexual experiment or seen different from other women. Can cisgender men and women really view transgender women and men as "real" women and men or only as something different?
Wow, this is an old thread.
Your experience is just that - your experience. It doesn't mean that every non-trans person feels sexually confused. I haven't had any problems being seen as male by my gay male husband. So, yeah, they can easily see us as we are.
Quote from: Nygeel on September 03, 2012, 05:16:21 PM
I've dated a cisgender woman who viewed me as a man completely. It was good times.
I think cis people who date trans people exclusively often have something funky going on but if they find my being trans as unimportant that's all wavy gravy.
^this. Though, I have met someone who was interested in being active in the trans community, just not for a relationship. Those people are totally cool too.
I don't know if I would date a MTF. I like penises, is the thing... and I know it depends on the girl, but most MTFs don't seem to be comfortable with the idea of using theirs. Plus I'm attracted to males, and I'm not sure how I'd feel about dating someone female-identified.
Dating another FTM feels even less likely cuz, yanno, penis.
Not saying I never would, mind you. I've just never been attracted to another trans person and I have a couple reasons why. But you never know, someone might come along and completely change my mind.
I'm dating right now with someone who's MTF but totally post-op so I see her as a woman and she identifys herself as a woman too. She just used to be MTF let's say. I'm pre-everything so it's a bit weird but I like what's going on and we'll see what will happen. If you date someone who is transitioning or transitioned you don't have to lie about yourself or hiding your life at the beginning. I don't want to sound like an idiot with that but it's a big advantage I think.
I can't imagine what it would be like with a trans woman simply because I can't imagine being with anyone unless I actually like that individual. I suppose I'm probably close to demisexual or something, or maybe I'm just extremely happy with who I've got, but I don't think I've ever been attracted to someone per se that I've not known, so I really can't imagine being attracted to a trans woman, not because they're trans, but simply because I can't imagine being with any woman - cis or trans - until I've already fallen for them emotionally. It probably doesn't help either that I've never met a trans woman or even really seen photos of a trans woman around my age (I don't ever really stray from the FTM boards here or anything).
okaaay, just to chime in with my thoughts on all this, is basically, I haven't known if I have ever met another post op, of the F/M variaty, I expect they should appear as they should as 100% male, and yes if they are attractive I'll fancy him. If I dated, one and didnt suspect, and was told such, of course I would be just as shocked, as if it was me telling a cisman, who would give me the same treatment.
I of course wouldnt reject the f/m at all, but it would enhance my relationship with them even more.
Do CIS accept even post ops as their chosen gender, in most cases NO. They don't, get it, or will understand, but feel in their own sexual identity in which they set themselves, as who they are, can't feel comfortable with sleeping with some one who used to be some thing else. No Idea why this is, after all were just correcting a birth defect.
But generally this is how it is.. But yes there ARE some but not many straights who will date you.
Catherine x
I always preferred dating transsexual men over cissexual men, because with transsexual men the issue of my self idenfication is never in question. I am simply a woman and he is a man[period]. Also, I have discovered while dating transsexual men I am never asked stupid TRANS 101 questions and we genuinely understand one another. I suppose transgender men who date women(trans or cis) never have this problem since women are more understanding to such things, but it is an entirely different outcome with most transgender women dating cissexual men. The point of my post is to inform transgender women about the possibility of dating other transgender people.
Quote from: I need a new name on September 03, 2012, 03:23:53 PM
In my experience, cisgender men and women who date trans* women or men are either sexually confused or completely tired of cisgender women or men. Can cisgender men and women really view transgender women and men as "real" women and men or only as something different?
I have only ever dated cis women. I have never been seen by them as anything other than a normal guy. I dont see myself as trans, and I sure as hell wouldnt put up with anyone else viewing me as trans.
Maybe it is because of people's experiences, and/or lack of acceptance from cis men and women they come across relationship wise, that makes them think cis men and women are incapable of seeing ftm and mtf as what they are and not a trans person.
Quote from: Kitty_Babe on September 04, 2012, 04:31:54 PM
Do CIS accept even post ops as their chosen gender, in most cases NO. They don't, get it, or will understand, but feel in their own sexual identity in which they set themselves, as who they are, can't feel comfortable with sleeping with some one who used to be some thing else. No Idea why this is, after all were just correcting a birth defect.
But generally this is how it is.. But yes there ARE some but not many straights who will date you.
Catherine x
Id have to disagree with you here. Ofcourse, I think that (unfortunately) having to admit to this medical situation Im going through, can make things harder in terms of getting a girlfriend. But it doesnt mean its impossible. There are cisgendered people out there, who are outside of the lgbt bubble with no understanding of it, that will accept you 100%, without question.
Ive not had a problem with it before. All the girlfriends Ive had, have seen me as a regular guy. Granted, I didnt ever date when I was pre T, so the T probably helped them to see me as your average joe, but even so, being with girls pre and post op, didnt make a difference. My body has always been presented as male. I make sure people see me as who I am, and not to be identified as trans, as thatll always stick with people's view of you.
I have a couple of transwoman friends who are in relationships with cis-women, and they have no problems. Pity I can't seem to attract at least one myself.
Having begun to identify as Pansexual lately I am starting to view all men in a different light, but cis men will still have a few hurdles to get over first. As my son is FtM I have no problem relating to transmen however. They are men just as I am a woman. As for body parts they are just that, bits of the body that give pleasure and are just a bit out of the ordinary, so once we got going I don't think that would really be a problem. ;) It hasn't been with the Intersex woman I have got to know.
Karen.
I am currently head over heels for an mtf. She's getting SRS, but I never will have SRS myself and I am pre-medical transition (which she knows-- at least the latter). I don't know if I care about equipment though. I feel a kinship with a lot of mtfs, I think there is a whole portion of our lives that a cis person will never get and I do consider myself a transguy and not male (I know that varies and that T could change that sort of thing). Anyway, I care what kind of person someone is, maybe it is my age or something. :) I used to be asexual so attraction to someone is very new to me, not sure how I am going to feel about things as they go forward as I have been kind of defensive about being touched. What I would be-- is this gay or straight? I think the best you could say is that this is "queer" (sorry if I offend anyone with this term). But I don't know if I care if someone passes or not or anything.
I don't know why a cis person dating only trans people is confused? Sounds like they might like the idea of, say, a guy who has experienced how women are treated in society. Wouldn't this be an advantage in some people's eyes?? Most of the cis people I know with relationships with an ftm were formerly having lesbian relations. I don't know what this is now and I think the experience might defy terminology.
I guess I still feel I am non-binary in some respects.
--Jay J
My gf is cis gendered, she never ever treats me as anything more than a woman. Its not about my sexual organs, but about my heart and my mind.
At first, I did not think I could ever date a preoperative transsexual. But despite the issue of their biological genitalia, I knew he, my husband, was the perfect man for me. Also, as time went by, I learned to overlook his genitalia and even helped him get the genital corrective surgery(phallopasty)(GCS)[youtube.com/watch?v=WeM6g-os650&feature=channel&list=UL]. Yes, everything works fine in that area and the scarring is barely visible now. We have been married for 25 years now and thanks to modern technology we have 3 biological children. Has anyone here try researching embryo & egg storage banks[spermbankcalifornia.com/embryo-egg-banking.html]? Please utilize this information and pass it on to other transpeople. I know most of you here are young and have no need for children right now. But trust me, you will change your mind later on once you find your soulmate. Plus, children are a wonderful distraction. If later on you still do not want children, you can always sell your eggs or sperm. It can be very lucrative. It is always good to have many options in life as opposed to none at all. :)
In my personal opinion as a mtf I'd date a ftm. As long as I like you I'll date you. Plus I think a ftm would have a better understanding of things and put more effort into a relationship then most cis males. I can't form connections well with most cis males. Ive been asked out a lot by cis males but i always say no. Well to most. Dated like 3 guys out of a lot. Idk how many. Its kind da sad actually. I'm bisexual BTW and prefer women but I'd date a man I like. I was actually was wondering if a ftm would date a mtf or if it was common.