Go Hillary you can't mess up anymore than Bush did. ;D Discuss
True, but that doesn't mean it will get better either. Right now it's all talk and not proof she can and will do anything. And she has a record she often hedges her talks about which many people find troublesome. While it's the nature of politics and Congress, she hasn't full explained a number of decisions. And she knows how to play politics, which means promises are only that, and not absolute assurances she believes what she says and will support it. It's not about flip-flopping, that's normal, but you still have to have set of values to start with. I haven't seen or heard hers yet.
With the government running health care just wait to the problems trying to transition. Clinton was the one who signed the trade agreements that sent so many jobs overseas.
Quote from: lisagurl on February 10, 2008, 10:04:18 AM
With the government running health care just wait to the problems trying to transition. Clinton was the one who signed the trade agreements that sent so many jobs overseas.
Well, that was Bill, but you bring up a good point. Personally, I would NEVER vote for Hillary Clinton, not in a million years.
I don't trust her. Not that that has much bearing on the matter, since I'm not even in the US, but yeah. I think she'd be as bad or worse than Maggie Thatcher. For what it's worth, it seems like much of the outside world (Amongst the people I know, anyway) is hoping you guys vote for Barak Obama.
IMHO Hillary is NUTS... shes far too agressive and just so many other things Id not vote for her in the current state of the country... She has some good ideas, but Im actualy afffraid of how she will impliment them... Its Obama all the way... And if it came down to McCain and Hillary...... Id vote for the other guy whoever that may be.
She lost every state that voted yesterday. Some by pretty whopping margins. Its looking like no one will have enough for a flat out victory, so it will be tossed into the smoke-free rooms of the 'superdelegates.'
Obama seems to inspire people, but as Plato taught us in Gorgias, rhetoric is not truth. Its not like any of these people are not mainstream, wall street corporate types.
It all boils down to who you like. No one actually concerns themselves with the details of real issues. Read the above responses to see exactly what I mean. When it comes to this "polarizing" issue about Hillary..... I am truly saddened. For it was the Republicans that built this myth in the early 90's, this blitzkrieg of negative attention for which they are so adept. How many people still think that Kerry was not a hero in Viet Nam due to the swift boat ads? As an independent or Democrat, are you so naive as to fall into that well devised trap? Why is it so easy to deceive the American public? Because it is so easy to hate... that's why. All you need do is direct it and those in the conservative religious movement are excellent orchestrators.
Both candidates advocate health insurance provided by privately held corporations. Under their plans the government will NOT be running health care. I actually favor a single payer system provided by the government. "Oh," you say, "that will never work". Do you actually believe the Republican PR campaign they've been feeding you all these years? Medicare runs with a 6% overhead and VA runs with a 2% overhead. Private insurance companies run at 33% overhead with hundreds of millions going to the top executives. You tell me... where is the money going? Healthier citizens? Nope. It's going into someones pocket as profit.... and not even taxed under the Bush tax cuts.
I'm reminded of that line in the movie "Paint Your Wagon". A Morman man came riding into the gold mining town with his two wives. The sex starved miners demanded that he auction off one of his wives to the highest bidder. The miners felt it wasn't fair for him to have two wives and every one else had none. The most attractive woman agreed. The husband, mulled the thought of a financial stimulus package around in his head and asked her "Why Sarah, you don't know what you'll get!" She responded with "Well, I know what I've had."
I'm not rooting for change just for change sake. But I am saying that what we have is completely broken and it does not work. Both candidates support propping up this current system. However, some regulation is in order under their plans which I do agree is the next best step. Both will require companies to provide plans which will insure every one even if they have serious pre-existing conditions.
The biggest difference between the two is that Clinton will mandate that everyone carry insurance. Under Obama's plan, people will be able to choose whether they will purchase insurance or not.
I've had a very difficult time deciding between Obama and Hillary. Obama is a natural leader. He is inspiring and a great orator. Hillary has a lifetime of public service. Both are members of great minority ranks. Last night in Obama's speech he started talking about issues for which I am passionate. He openly advocated equal rights for ALL people. He proposed help for college students in trade for their commitment to provide public service like time in the Peace Corp or serving as aids in nursing homes. It was at that moment he won me over. Now.... if he can get on board with rebuilding our infrastructure instead of giving wealth through tax cuts.... I'll be devoted.
Cindi
On a side note... Id like to see Obama win the primarys... but just to stick it to the republicans Id like to see clinton as the vice prez running with Obama.... That would be devistating to the GOP heheheh >:D
HC will NEVER take the VP slot, she's been there already I think.
Re: A Woman President?
Not if it's Ms. Clinton.
Quote from: LynnER on February 10, 2008, 02:11:57 PM
On a side note... Id like to see Obama win the primarys... but just to stick it to the republicans Id like to see clinton as the vice prez running with Obama.... That would be devistating to the GOP heheheh >:D
I would be greatly surprised if Obama wins the nomination and he picks Hillary the VP. To offset McCain the VP has to be a southerner, eg. Edwards or somesuch person, or a westerner, eg. Richardson or somesuch person. Adding Hillary to the ticket would still polarize the voters and help the GOP. The Democrats won't want to alienate the white male voters and much of their own party. McCain can afford to alienate the religous and conservatives, most won't leave the party for Obama, and his record attracts a lot of white males, so the Dems better have a ticket to keep or attract the middle and independents. And that doesn't include Hillary.
QuoteVP has to be a southerner, eg. Edwards or some such person
Obama, Edwards would be strong, except it is rare for a candidate to pick someone he competed against.
I haven't really paid attention like I should. I liked Bill Clinton, I was making a good wage and jobs were available. I know I will not vote republican whoever they run. I should be more aware of politics with trans/gay/lesbian issues which is why I vote Democrat. As far as politicians I reeally don't trust any. I just hope they will do the right thing. :angel:
Quote from: Kimberly Kilpatrick on February 10, 2008, 08:20:04 PM
I haven't really paid attention like I should. I liked Bill Clinton, I was making a good wage and jobs were available. I know I will not vote republican whoever they run. I should be more aware of politics with trans/gay/lesbian issues which is why I vote Democrat. As far as politicians I reeally don't trust any. I just hope they will do the right thing. :angel:
I do not see reason or logic. ???
I just wanted to see what people thought about HC. I want to see a woman President. I probably won't get to see her. But i want this country to wake up to the rest of the nations and treat women more than second class citizens. As far as my last post. At least she would have input from some experience. I liked Bill Clinton.
Kimberly, it looks like we are in the minority here. i liked Bill, also. my wife, sister, and grandma would all love to see Hillary win. imo, i think she would do quite well. her best statement to date: it took a clinton to clean up after the last bush, it'll take another clinton to clean up after the second. if i could vote, she'd have mine.
Mickie
There is a reason why the president is limited to 2 terms. Dynasties do not play well in a federal republic democracy.The second is never as good as the first. Out of the thousands that are qualified to lead this country why is it only those in the media eye that are the best. The media has made and destroyed images that all have false fronts. The media makes its living from shock and awe.
I personally think Hillary would be as good as many of the other candidates and I think it's it's time for this nation to shed it's macho front of only men Presidents. I was once republican in my view points but when i realized they do not like Transgendered people I was not going to back them at all. Not to mention I am against this war on terror. I have lived in fear of society and government now facing issues of my ->-bleeped-<- I find I will back the party that is more likely to be sympathetic of things that effect me . I know they haven't always but it is more the republicans will ever do. And that's why I want Hillary. Right or wrong it is my belief. I respect all opinions and I wished Bill would have ran again it doesn't say once you have ran 2 terms that after another does his term you can't run again. ;)
Amendment 22 - Presidential Term Limits. Ratified 2/27/1951.
1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.
I stand corrected :)
No problem, we seem to work overtime to keep the people happily ignorant about our government, otherwise in re Bush v. Gore would have set off riots. Which it should have.
Hill has to (HAS TO) win Virginia this week, or she is toast. And I do not think she will. Her staff is in total confusion, money is hard to come by, and Virginia has lots of African-Americans who are about to make the Old South remember why they had Jim Crow laws in the first place.
She will not (NO NO NEVER NEVER) take the Veep slot.
So, Obama should put together the team right away, and run as a team. I don't think he needs a Southerner - the AA vote will carry the Solid South. He needs someone who has foreign policy/military experience, and that should be General Westley Clark. That would be a hard ticket to beat. It might be possible to convince Hill to be Sec of State (the most powerful job in the government these days - and one with real power) but I doubt it. I would be nice however, but if that is not possible, so (I know your going to think I'm smoking that ganga but I'm not) I would try to get Arnold for the job. He has proven himself a capable administrator and negotioter (which no one thought he would be) Besides other world leaders would look puny next to him in the photos, and that's great PR. And, as a self-made millionare and an immigrent, he is great PR for the best of what America is. And his close ties with the Kennedy family would not hurt. Besides he does speak a foreign language, and that might be nice for a change in a Sec of State. James Webb as Sec of Defense. A decorated war hero, member of the Senate, and one of the few people who actually had a son serve in country. Put Dennis K in charge of the Health Care reform, give Bill Richardson the job of Homeland Security, which is INS, might be nice to have someone who speaks Spanish work on that problem.
The two most important jobs after State and Defense are Attoney General and EPA, because these people need to be brought to justice, both domestically and internationaly, if we are to regain our credibility in the world, John Edwards, or Jerry Brown. Edwards would be best, Brown could head up the Labor Department in that case, a win-win for all of us.
And, give Al Gore the EPA, and let him loose. He would do it. He could repair the damage that Bush has done. And all of our lives, and the lives of our children and grandchildren would be better for it.
Make Barbra Boxer - a more liberal and compassionate woman in our government is hard to find - head of HHS.
So, you have to toss a bone to the Clintons. And here it is - other than Hill running the State Department. First, how do you shut bill TFU? Appoint him to the Supreme Court. Its been done before (William Howard Taft) and by tradition SC members don't make public speeches. He would be happy, and I think, an awesome judge. Well versed in Constitutional law, and a compassionate person, a great mind, and a good writer, why not?
And here is the kicker. I would appoint Chelsea Ambassador to the UN. It would give her experience in foreign policy, she is articulate, unflappable, and poised. Not to mention, and honors graduate from Stanford, so she is no dummy. And it would be good to have a young female as our public face to the world. And, she is going to be the first female president, might as well start her on that road.
OK, now I am going to smoke ganga. That would be too awesome to ever happen.
Quote from: tekla on February 11, 2008, 02:31:58 PM
And here is the kicker. I would appoint Chelsea Ambassador to the UN. It would give her experience in foreign policy, she is articulate, unflappable, and poised. Not to mention, and honors graduate from Stanford, so she is no dummy. And it would be good to have a young female as our public face to the world. And, she is going to be the first female president, might as well start her on that road.
OK, now I am going to smoke ganga. That would be too awesome to ever happen.
I agree someone needs to step up to the plate. On some other sites I visit mainly a British one I am slammed for my country's lack of woman leaders . Being gendered female I think it's time for a woman president just appease the world and being a example of all are created equal not just men.
There are many who would claim that its not just men, its "white men" and who could deny that Colin Powell would have been better that GW? Race trumps gender in America, pretty much.
In that case Secretary Rice would be a better pick A black woman president. ::)
Quote from: Kimberly Kilpatrick on February 11, 2008, 04:18:09 PM
In that case Secretary Rice would be a better pick A black woman president. ::)
Yeah... except that she is a crazy neo-con bent on world domination.
"... same thing we do every night Pinky: TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!"
Tekla,
I really enjoyed reading your post about the cabinet members. It's very interesting to see how you are thinking.
Cindi
African Americans don't think of Condi as one of them. And she is not. Pure house ******** that one is.
Quote from: tekla on February 11, 2008, 08:36:36 PM
African Americans don't think of Condi as one of them. And she is not. Pure house ******** that one is.
So who do you African-Americans think of as one of you?
I wouldn't vote for Rice because of being part of the Bush team. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.invision.smileyville.net%2Fsmilies%2Fsnf%2520%2838%29.gif&hash=f4171339a72b03d5269c5103a57c0f546599fb0d)
I think all these poltics are turning into celebrity gossip with Hillary Clinton being the first women.
I personally don't care if a woman is president or a man. i think their is a lot of hype to be honest though. Obama seems to be overrated and Hilary seems to be chosen by some voters simply because she's a women, sometimes she's attacked and over-critized...
I have a tough desicion deciding between the two but I think I will go for Hillary because she wants to lower the military spending which I think is VERY important. We already paid a load on military costs in Iraq and I think this will be one of the first steps to getting us of out of debt...I also hate the military- just my bias...
Obama while I think that he is an excellent leader. has many long-term plans and such. I think that his support for providing aid to immigrants is a no no becuase we can't afford to shelter people from other countries at this time..
I due however think his idea of not having health insurance being okay is EXCELLENT.
all in all- I think the candidates all have some very great strenghts but also weaknesses. It depends exactly what is it that us citzens need the most- which I believe is fixing up the stupid mess in Iraq- and telling the military to back off
obama however is a very postive character and I believe he has strong motivitation.
Hillary is okay in character- I like her idea of lessening the control of the military which I think really broke this country apart..
So again- I would vote for Hillary but I may consider Obama..
If you want to see real change away from corporations running this country vote for Ralph Nader.
Losing 11 primaries in a row is pretty much a death song. She needs 60%+ in the remaining contests to win, ain't gonna happen.
on a lighter note, on saturday night live, it's like Tina Fey said, women are still doing what Oprah tells them to do, she endorses Obama, so I am looking to see him win, or McCain beat him out by like 2 delegates or some bs like that. it's gonna be another Bush/Gore election. grrrrrr!!!!!!!!
Mickie
Have you counted the number of African-Americans in the country of late? (or even in Jefferson's time) The entire Jim Crow system was based on minority control of a majority. States that have not gone blue since pre-Nixon, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, are all going to show up and vote the brother in. He has it in a walk.
Even ignoring that, the person who can speak beats the person who can't. Obama is a gifted public speaker, McCain is like listening to paint dry.
Seriously, I don't see it. Obama is a better public
speaker than McCain, but he's not that good.
I seriously think Obama is a lot of hype
and that in fact he's not a better speaker than Hillary.
Hillary has just not the being the New Kid in Town, and
freshness.
But, whatever floats the boat of the 30% of americans who
actually vote I suppose... If poor americans actually voted there is no chance that the republicans would have any chance of being elected, but they don't, so its competitive.
McCain is crazy, as corrupt as they come. You or I could beat him.
Quote from: tekla on February 25, 2008, 03:51:58 PM
Have you counted the number of African-Americans in the country of late? (or even in Jefferson's time)
Between 11% and 12% of the adult population. I believe that in Mississippi and Alabama the percentages are 3 to 4 times that, but no AA majorities outside of D.C. I think.
N~
closer to 20% in the general population, close to 80% in the deep (ie es-slave country) south.
Quote from: tekla on February 25, 2008, 04:59:27 PM
closer to 20% in the general population, close to 80% in the deep (ie es-slave country) south.
You should fact-check instead of shooting from the hip, these figures from the 2000 Census should show you how badly off you are. AAs drop yearly as a percentage of the total population, as do Caucs.
RACE
Total population3 ................................. 248 709 873 100.0
Hispanic or Latino (of any race)3 ...................... 22 354 059 9.0
Not Hispanic or Latino3 ................................. 226 355 814 91.0
White ...................................................... 188 128 296 75.6
Black or African American ........................... 29 216 293 11.7
American Indian and Alaska Native ............... 1 793 773 0.7
Asian ...................................................... 6 642 481 2.7
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander ...... 325 878 0.1
Some other race ....................................... 249 093 0.1
You want state by state in the Deep South?
Nichole
well yes, as long as your doing the research. Polling figures, and voter registration numbers are important here.
and, BTW, the US Census department does not list "Hispanic" as a a singular classification. So where do those numbers really come from?
OK, from the CIA Factbook
white 81.7%, black 12.9%, Asian 4.2%, Amerindian and Alaska native 1%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.2% (2003 est.)
note: a separate listing for Hispanic is not included because the US Census Bureau considers Hispanic to mean a person of Latin American descent (including persons of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin) living in the US who may be of any race or ethnic group (white, black, Asian, etc.)
Given the number of Hatians and Cubans who ID as black, the number is more than 15, hence, rounded up to 20.
And, the number of AAs in like North Dakota is less than 100, those numbers are grouped in the South, more than the rural midwest, or InterMountian states.
Quote from: tekla on February 25, 2008, 03:51:58 PM
Have you counted the number of African-Americans in the country of late? (or even in Jefferson's time) The entire Jim Crow system was based on minority control of a majority. States that have not gone blue since pre-Nixon, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, are all going to show up and vote the brother in. He has it in a walk.
Even ignoring that, the person who can speak beats the person who can't. Obama is a gifted public speaker, McCain is like listening to paint dry.
Ok, I agree Obama is a gifted speaker but Bush??? He cannot string two sentences together to save his life! So what does that mean? Are American Presidents just figure heads? Is it who is behind them that is doing all the work?
Louisiana: http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/census2000/louisiana/state.htm
Mississippi: http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/census2000/mississippi/state.htm
Alabama: http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/census2000/alabama/state.htm
Georgia: http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/census2000/georgia/state.htm
Florida: http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/census2000/florida/state.htm
South Carolina: http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/census2000/southcarolina/state.htm
Not so Deep South:
Arkansas: http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/census2000/arkansas/state.htm
Texas: http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/census2000/texas/state.htm
Tennessee: http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/census2000/tennessee/state.htm
North Carolina: http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/census2000/northcarolina/state.htm
Virginia: http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/census2000/virginia/state.htm
Kentucky: http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/census2000/kentucky/state.htm
Missouri: http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/census2000/missouri/state.htm
Maryland: http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/census2000/maryland/state.htm
Delaware: http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/census2000/delaware/state.htm
Detroit possibly houses more African-Americans than do some of those states. 81% of the total population of Detroit. Like many people one extrapolates who one lives among to an entire population.
The figures came from the census bureau, I didn't include the breakdowns for hispanics as a group. If I had the AA population rose to 12.4%. Rather less than 20 and how many states have 80% total population for a group that is 12% or so of the total population?
:)
So, the vote Obama has been getting in the southern states is not due to AA voters, but, I would suggest to ALL voters.
N~
Of course, you could just say you were mistaken with your estimates.
Are American Presidents just figure heads? Is it who is behind them that is doing all the work?
Why yes, of course. Starting with the Federal Reserve, which in political terms is as 'federal' as Federal Express.