14-year-old faces murder charge
http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2008/feb/15/14-year-old-faces-murder-charge/
02/15/2008
Three weeks after his 14th birthday, the teen suspect in a deadly classroom shooting made his first court appearance Thursday as officials announced he has been charged with first-degree murder and committing a hate crime.
Little prick bigot... sorry that kind of news makes me angry
This is really sad. Who knows what details will emerge, but we've got a murdered fourteen year old who got sot by a classmate. Just such a tragedy. I can't begin to imagine how this would make a parent feel, on both sides. Just an absolute tragedy.
I wonder who influenced that 14 year old. What are his parents like? How did he get to that point where he had to shoot another classmate because of the way he was? It's a tragedy and it hurt a lot of people.
It was like that blogger, Laer, who basically said he got what he was asking for.
Sheila
Thank Goodness. Get that boy away from general society, we've got enough psychopaths on our hands as it is (mainly concentrated at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. at the moment).
Lia
This is terrible.
They are taking one tragedy and making it into another.
Have you seen American History X?
Just because someone is a bigot now, and does a horrible thing, doesn't mean they are doomed for the rest of their life.
This kid could change.
They should not be charging him as an adult.
That is terrible.
He is a child.
He could spend life in prison for somthing he has done as a kid.
They don't care about justice, they care about vengance.
This is rediculous.
In 20 years or less this kid could easily learn the error of his ways, be easily remoresfull and want to help the world and change things.
There is no reason to damn him for one mistake.
This is an oppurtunity to help him learn and others arround him.
Young teenagers are not mature adults.
They are kids, going through an already traumatic time under the influence of all sorts of forces including hormones, family preasures, world preasures, etc.
Many kill themselves.
This is rediculous to be treating this like an adult case.
That's so mean to be taking this kids life away for one mistake.
Because that's what they are doing.
He will be institutionalized for the rest of his life.
So that's two murders that may be comited.
What a rediculous waste.
I hope they do the right thing.
Sara
I see your point Sarah, but if you were the judge what sentence would you empose.
Theraphy?? 10 years in prison, 20 years in prison???
How does one decide this?
He may have been immature and unknowing of his ways, but he MURDERED for Hate!!
Regardless of awareness of his situation, I am a firm believer in a ARM for a ARM, a LEG for a LEG, A LIFE FOR A LIFE...
And for every murder, there should be two IMO...
I know thats harsh I respect your opinion though... And love your belief of the goodness that people are capable of, but in this young man I do not see it... And even if it is there it should have no say in the world...
lock him up for life. that should be more than enough. and let's lock the parents up too while we are at it.
Quote from: Sarah on February 15, 2008, 09:55:19 PM
They don't care about justice, they care about vengeance.
Maybe so... our justice system links the two together exquisitely.
Still, a 14-year-old murdering someone? There are no 14-year-olds who do not know the difference between right and wrong. This could have been any one of us. I came out as gay at 13, a very effeminate kid, and this could have very easily been my fate. I was lucky; most of my torture was psychological rather than physical. Such a person must be separated from society; maybe thirty years from now, he'll make parole and be able to rejoin the real world. Four years is not enough.
Lia
Quote from: Sheila on February 15, 2008, 09:17:46 PM
I wonder who influenced that 14 year old. What are his parents like? How did he get to that point where he had to shoot another classmate because of the way he was? It's a tragedy and it hurt a lot of people.
It was like that blogger, Laer, who basically said he got what he was asking for.
Sheila
I agree Sheila, if this boy comes from a home where he is taught to hate and despise differences in others, his parents must be mighty proud of him for acting on those impulses. ::)
These parents fill their kids head with so much hatred its sickening, and unfortunately, kids will always act upon those feelings without thinking of the consequences.
My heart is saddened that poor Larry didn't have a chance at life, it was snuffed out by a young man full of pure hatred! Yes, 14 is young to go to jail, but 14 is also too young to die.
I'm sorry but I don't think this boy will repent for what he has done, the hatred would be deep within him, and doing time for something he thought was justified will only make him angrier!
Quote from: mara on February 15, 2008, 10:17:09 PM
I see your point Sarah, but if you were the judge what sentence would you empose.
Theraphy?? 10 years in prison, 20 years in prison???
How does one decide this?
He may have been immature and unknowing of his ways, but he MURDERED for Hate!!
Regardless of awareness of his situation, I am a firm believer in a ARM for a ARM, a LEG for a LEG, A LIFE FOR A LIFE...
And for every murder, there should be two IMO...
I know thats harsh I respect your opinion though... And love your belief of the goodness that people are capable of, but in this young man I do not see it... And even if it is there it should have no say in the world...
It would depend on whether they were remorseful and willing to do somthing aobut themselves and to make changes.
If they were realy contrite and remorseful at some point, that would be enough.
Check in every so often.
Not four years, but no more than 20 for sure.
20 years is a life sentance in Canada.
In 20 years anyone can change.
We are too much about judging others and locking up our people for making a mistake.
This kid is human.
A human being with human feelings.
Feelings including fear, anger, sorrow, lonelyness. dispair.
These things he may have ignored of his peer when he chose to take their life, but that does not make him a demon.
he is a human being.
We send soldiers to war to do the exact same thing.
They do it out of ignorance also and for the profits of oil companies.
We don't lock them up forever.
To act like killing someone is this unforgivable sin is just not true.
People change.
Should all combat soldiers, war veterans be executed?
Some of them did kill in cold blood.
What of them?
There are worse things than dying, and living one's life in a cage has to be one of them.
What this kid needs is education.
Some loss of freedom, and a visit arround the world to open his eyes.
Hey, maybe send him in the infanty, let him be shot at for a while, let him see what it feels like.
There are other ways to deal with this than send him to prison.
It's also realy expensive.
It costs more to keep an inmate housed for a year than to send them to college.
Do you want to pay for this kid out of your taxes for the rest of his life?
Shouldn't he have the chance to be productive at some point and make a difference?
Even the guy who started the Crips changed his ways, and spent the last years of his life educating kids on why not to join a gang.
Executing him prevented a helpful person from being helpful.
Lots of people have changed thier ways after doing terrible things.
MAny went on to live the life of activists for the rest of their life as an example.
Just because this kid is the way he is now, doesn't mean he will be that way even next year.
I have seen so many people change so much, I can't belive He wouln't too if he had the willingness to do so. It's quite probable
What happended was a terrible tragedy but that doesn't mean I forget that he too is human.
People are people.
They don't stop being that because they make a mistake.
Posted on: February 16, 2008, 12:52:18 AM
Quote from: genovais on February 15, 2008, 11:43:25 PM
Quote from: Sarah on February 15, 2008, 09:55:19 PM
They don't care about justice, they care about vengeance.
Maybe so... our justice system links the two together exquisitely.
Still, a 14-year-old murdering someone? There are no 14-year-olds who do not know the difference between right and wrong.
Lia
Are you so sure?
I was a lot more confused at that age.
I did not have nearly the wisdom or experience to cut through the confusion back then.
Not at that age.
I don't get it right 100% of the time now.
I get confused just like anyone else.
Are you saying that you always, everytime, know exactly what the right course of action is, in any given situation? And then do it?
I have that sense like everyone else, but we all get it wrong occasionaly.
Some more than others. Teenagers especially.
I'm just saying we shouldn't damn this kid for being a human being.
20 years from he will still have commited this act, he may be another person then, but that fact will always remain..
Personally i have always believed in a eye for a eye...
I think he should be shot... Cheaper, Faster, and Rightful..
If I murdered someone, on premeditation...I would expect to have the same done back to me, period...
People need examples so they can learn, and my opinion is put this kids head on a stake in the middle of the city, make a poster out of it, and put one in every classroom...
Sorry Sarah, i lack the compasion you have for human beings....
Quote from: mara on February 16, 2008, 01:12:43 PM
20 years from he will still have commited this act, he may be another person then, but that fact will always remain..
Personally i have always believed in a eye for a eye...
I think he should be shot... Cheaper, Faster, and Rightful..
If I murdered someone, on premeditation...I would expect to have the same done back to me, period...
People need examples so they can learn, and my opinion is put this kids head on a stake in the middle of the city, make a poster out of it, and put one in every classroom...
Sorry Sarah, i lack the compasion you have for human beings....
Would you do the shooting?
So much for the theory that more TG tolerant, or feminist-based society would be more, uh, compassionate.
Of course had this person killed some 14 year old in Iraq by splattering his brains all over some wall in Baghdad we would give him a medal and a promotion.
LOL, haha ya I definitely should not be dictator thats for sure. haha LOL
No I wont pull the trigger, since the old let he who is without sin cast the first stone implication you are trying to bring forth.
BUT humans as a whole society, have the power to pull the trigger, not a single one of us do, but the whole of us do, I think thats the idea behind it anyways isnt it???
Also Do not underestimate War as being trivial, you know nothing of war with a words such as that, it is the reason you are here today, it is the reason we have this country to live in, you can say all you want that the war was just for OIL, and whether its true or not, you arent living 50 years from now, when the true reprocussions of the war will come out.
the soldiers that fight in the war are not murderers, the are soldiers fighting for YOU, and your neighboor, and this KID who decided premeditated to Kill cause he didnt like the little gay kid in his class.
When i was 8 I stole a piece of gum from a seven eleven, I knew it was wrong when I did it, but I did it anyways.
How did I know it was wrong?? I just did, it is something born inside all of us. morality is inate.
Someone once asked Ghandi "how do you change the world?"
He said "Be, the change you want to see"
India got it's independance through non-violent means.
Widespread use of non-violent civil disobediance.
They simply refused to obey British law
An entire country. Peaceful. Independance.
There is more than one way to eat an orange.
Have you seen Gunner Pallace?
I have friends of mine in Iraq.
They don't want to be there.
They are fighting becuase they have to, not because they want to.
They themselves are demoralized because this war is about oil and resources.
They know it, and say so.
They generals say so.
The Iraqis were no threat to us.
They did not have any WMD's
The UN and our own intelligence agency's have confirmed this.
Sadam had nothing to do with Al Quaeda, or 9/11.
Our intellegence agency's have confirmed this too.
So why are we there?
It is one of the worlds largest remaining oil reserves,
And oil is running out.
We consume more oil than any other country. Arround 90% of the worlds yearly oil exports are consumed by us.
Congress and the US senate have both confirmed that we are there for oil.
To invade another country, and bomb it to bits for thier resources is no better than what hitler did.
They had functional hospitals, universities, police deptments, fire departments, schools, jobs and relative saftey on a daily basis.
Now they have none of these things, and those that are there are a crippled state of wha they once were.
Over 100,000 innocent Iraqi civilians (not soldiers) have been killed in the crossfire.
That is our doing.
Arround 8,000 American soldiers and contractors have been killed.
The sucide rate for returning combat soldiers is arround 30 percent.
More Vietnam veterans have commited suicide since the Vietnam War than those who were actually killed in it.
War destroys lives.
On all sides.
There is very little good that comes of it. Unless you are an Energy company executive.
Sara
Very little comes of war???
your right, things are able to stay the same, were you around for WW1, WW2, were you there when pearl harbor was bombed??
didnt think so, your opinion of war is soley based on what you have seen.
The world isnt as safe as it seems, it is much more fragile of a place than you think..
Also I hope you know we dont go and STEAL the oil, we set iraq up in the world economy, to SELL its oil.
withing ten years Iraqs dinar will have a higher value than the British Pound.
But people love to make it sound like we are thiefs, when they will get top dollar for it, and also at the same time be liberated from the harsh constraints that were placed on the people of that country, be able to grow economically, and become for the first time be a country of growth and freedom.
also you say you have friends in Iraq that say they dont want to be there, BUT i must have missed the DRAFT, cause i thought they did it cause they wanted too?
If your gonna say they needed the money, thats bullcrap, cause they could have accomplished the same things working at Mcdonalds here...
Things change Mara.
I was going to join the army too once.
I decided not to at the last minute.
A lot of my friends joned and later regretted it deeply.
Iraq was selling oil to the world market anyway.
My family is in the oil business.
They were selling it to whomever they felt like.(and as a soveigrn country they had the right to do so)
And at whatever rate they felt like. The royalties went back into the Iraqi economy.
Now US companies (and some British) have the rights to those fields, not the Iraqi government.
WE say who they can sell it to and who they cannot.
And those pipelines and fields that are now owned by US companies are now protected by US soldiers.
Who are shot at constantly.
As one U.S. soldier said "they(the Iraqi's) don't want us here, and we don't want to be here".
And we have created a backdoor draft; it's called stoploss. You might want to see the documentary movie about it. It's in theatres now, or at least it was.
Soldiers now can be recalled at any time, even after they have been discharged.
And they do it on a regular basis. Many soldiers have been killed after thier term of service has already expired.
Rather than talk to me about this, I would suggest talking to an actual soldier who has returned from Iraq.
They can speak for themselves.
Sara
Pretty much the people of Iraq are not making money from thier oil, huge mulit-national oil companies are - and not yet at that, they are not shipping squat. And I think we had to fight WWII, but only because we were in WWI and agreed to a harsh and vindictive peace treaty that all but insured a second go round. The US getting involved in WWI might well have been the worst foreign policy mistake we made till recently.
Still, killing people to show that killing people is wrong, seems not all that bright. And an eye for a eye is bible junk, not American law.
and become for the first time be a country of growth and freedom - does that seem to be coming on anytime soon? Do they even want a country? Seems like they want to go back to the old system and not the British imposed mandate.
It seems like your version of law and justice does have a lot more to do with Shria Law then our notions of justice, rehabilitation and the like.
Sadams plan was simple, sell very little oil to keep the country going, and not to the US or UK or allies.
Then when the Earth is in a huge OIL loss, capitalize on it and charge a ridiculous amount for it.
It was simple, effective and structured plan with that I saw nothing wrong with it, BUT
he repressed the people of the current country, made them suffer, and denied them rights, after all it is the peoples oil, not his.
He was a dictator, remember? So he said its mine, basically though he was thinking long term, not short term.
And it has been quoted that he planned for many things with the Oil, many things that would be violent, and against the rights of others.
Sadam was not a good man, he had a horrible soul, and i believe that if the whole war accomplished just taking him out of power, then it was all worth it...
Quote from: Sarah on February 16, 2008, 01:59:26 AM
Are you so sure?
I was a lot more confused at that age.
I did not have nearly the wisdom or experience to cut through the confusion back then.
Not at that age.
Honestly? Short of mental retardation, there are no 14-year-olds who do not understand what death is (this is usually grasped much earlier) or that shooting someone with a gun and killing them is bad.
I'm not saying that the bastard deserves the death penalty (I'm not a believer in state-sanctioned killing anyway), but I am saying that he needs a hell of a lot more than 4 years in jail, which, if I understand correctly, would be the result were he tried as a minor.
Lia
Wow.
Over 108,000 people killed, millions more displaced, three trillion dollars spent, and a country destroyed.
For one guy.
Impressive isnt it?
Quote from: genovais on February 16, 2008, 04:14:13 PM
Quote from: Sarah on February 16, 2008, 01:59:26 AM
Are you so sure?
I was a lot more confused at that age.
I did not have nearly the wisdom or experience to cut through the confusion back then.
Not at that age.
Honestly? Short of mental retardation, there are no 14-year-olds who do not understand what death is (this is usually grasped much earlier) or that shooting someone with a gun and killing them is bad.
I'm not saying that the bastard deserves the death penalty (I'm not a believer in state-sanctioned killing anyway), but I am saying that he needs a hell of a lot more than 4 years in jail, which, if I understand correctly, would be the result were he tried as a minor.
Lia
We understand cause and effect by around-about age nine - really, we're young adults from there on out. The rest is just biology and experience.
When she said he repressed the people of the current country, made them suffer, and denied them rights, after all it is the peoples oil, not his. He was a dictator, remember? I thought she was talking about our guy.
And what kind of nation would sanction the execution of a 14 year old? Perhaps the same one that thinks torture is OK.
Tourture is justifiable, in the sense that if it is being used against individuals that deserve the use of it, to be deemed nessecary in a court of law, and based upon thier actions...
Sounds like a political problem. A policy issue. If peeps don't want a minor to go to jail for killing another human being, elect a government that has the same ideas as all.
Well he will go to jail, no doubt for at least 25 years to life. Its killing them that's wrong, and its against our national law and international law.
As for torture well our national law forbids it, the UCMJ forbids it, international law forbids it, the Geneva Conventions forbid it as does the basis of the Judeo/Christian ethics and morality. Also, it does not and will not give you the real results you need or want. Add to that ---- that at the exact moment you start to torture a terrorist then you just became just like them. Way to go.
I do not believe in the death penalty under any circumstances. Just the thought of an innocent person being executed is deplorable and not worth it!
We have a man in Australia doing life for killing 35 people and injuring dozens of others. He went to a tourist site in 1996 with automatic weapons and gunned down men, women and children.
This particular individual continually tries to kill himself, and just recently nearly succeeded. There are people who say that he should not be brought back to life, to let him die! He is scum and should die! But I don't agree. I think he should live with the pain and anguish every minute of the day until he dies a natural death in his old age! He deserves to suffer, and executing him would have been exactly what he wanted!
Quote from: mara on February 16, 2008, 09:19:14 PM
Tourture is justifiable, in the sense that if it is being used against individuals that deserve the use of it, to be deemed nessecary in a court of law, and based upon thier actions...
You're kidding, right? Torture is justifiable if due process has been applied? So if torture is legal, then it's okay? I just hope you never find yourself in a position where torture can be legally applied to you (a good hunk of the non-Western world, and potentially in America).
Lia
::) i hate to chim in here . but iam going to anyways . ::) to me a hate crime is wrong no matter how you
look at it . it is just plain wrong. and i hate to say this . but i do firmly believe this is a crime that should call
for the most strongest punishment that the usa calls for right now at this given time. now for the rest of this
being that this is a crime that comited by a 14 yr old child. does have to make one wonder why this child
made him take the life that he took . there are a number of that one could point out here. the main one
comes to mind is the parents of this child that took the life of another. it seams like today the parents
have forgoten a lot of things . mainly how to teach there kid,s right from wrong. it is sad to see ::) now
iam not saying all parents are like that . but there are some that are . like i said it is sad to see it .
hopefully maybe one day hate crimes will be a thing of the past . thats my 2 cents on this topic ::) ::)
Quote from: tekla on February 16, 2008, 10:13:31 PM
As for torture well our national law forbids it, the UCMJ forbids it, international law forbids it, the Geneva Conventions forbid it as does the basis of the Judeo/Christian ethics and morality. Also, it does not and will not give you the real results you need or want.
They are using tortue as we speak, ever heard of waterboarding, they have openly addmitted to its use, and It has already got information that was nessecary to extract...
Quote from: buttercup on February 16, 2008, 10:14:45 PM
Just the thought of an innocent person being executed is deplorable and not worth it!
In what way is this kid innocent??, I thought he shot another human out of hate? where do you get innocent.
Quote from: buttercup on February 16, 2008, 10:14:45 PM
He deserves to suffer, and executing him would have been exactly what he wanted!
True he wants to die on his terms, doubt he would be happy to be strapped down and gassed...
Although I agree he should be kept alive in a 2x4x2 box pitch black with horrible music pounding him and his feet in water for the rest of his life.
Quote from: genovais on February 16, 2008, 10:15:11 PM
You're kidding, right? Torture is justifiable if due process has been applied? So if torture is legal, then it's okay? I just hope you never find yourself in a position where torture can be legally applied to you (a good hunk of the non-Western world, and potentially in America).
I wont unless I deserve it darling, in which case I would deserve it....
____________________________________________________________
What information? Where Ossama is? How to win the war? Nonsense. At the moment that is happening, the terrorist is the guy with the water. No different from what the person on the board is accused of.
IYO
In the eyes of the law, both national and international.
Oh my goodness.
Are you all still going at it?
Aren't you tied by now?
I'm sleepy.
I'll see ya later!
Sara
Ya you know me Sarah i love to argue for the sake of argument, haha.
Its just fun to argue points that contradict the "norm" haha.
Quote from: Sarah on February 15, 2008, 09:55:19 PM
This is terrible.
They are taking one tragedy and making it into another.
Have you seen American History X?
Just because someone is a bigot now, and does a horrible thing, doesn't mean they are doomed for the rest of their life.
This kid could change.
They should not be charging him as an adult.
That is terrible.
He is a child.
He could spend life in prison for somthing he has done as a kid.
They don't care about justice, they care about vengance.
This is rediculous.
In 20 years or less this kid could easily learn the error of his ways, be easily remoresfull and want to help the world and change things.
There is no reason to damn him for one mistake.
This is an oppurtunity to help him learn and others arround him.
Young teenagers are not mature adults.
They are kids, going through an already traumatic time under the influence of all sorts of forces including hormones, family preasures, world preasures, etc.
Many kill themselves.
This is rediculous to be treating this like an adult case.
That's so mean to be taking this kids life away for one mistake.
Because that's what they are doing.
He will be institutionalized for the rest of his life.
So that's two murders that may be comited.
What a rediculous waste.
I hope they do the right thing.
Sara
Absolutely Sarah. People commit crimes like these out of hatred born of fear born of ignorance. As you say - people can and do change. Though I kinda need to qualify the "Young Teenagers are not Mature Adults" - perhaps not, but they do understand cause and effect, making them, from an understanding POV at least, adult.
Your point about the pressures kids face though is really valid - more and moreso today with absent or abusive parents, basically being raised by their peer-groups. It's kinda a return to a pack mentality almost.
He does need to be removed from society though to be rehabilitated. Though how effective prisons and juvenile detention centres are at that is ... There the pack mentality rules supreme, usually.
Posted on: 17 February 2008, 01:50:02
Quote from: mara on February 16, 2008, 02:04:30 PM
BUT humans as a whole society, have the power to pull the trigger, not a single one of us do, but the whole of us do, I think thats the idea behind it anyways isnt it???
Humans are no better as a group than as individuals - in fact, they are usually worse, because a mob mentality tends to rule.
I'm a firm believer in anarchism and direct democracy, but that only comes at the end of a more enlightened society brought about by long-term education. Ignorance is seen as the root of all evil in Buddhism, from what I understand, because that is what gives rise to fear and hatred and all the rest. This kid was raised in ignorance by his parents, who were raised in ignorance by theirs, etc. Who knows what kind of a person I might have turned out had my parents been different people - or not there, for that matter, so that I had to rely on an immature, ignorant peer group for support and education?
The whole approach we have of retributive punishment is counter-productive. It does nothing but turn wolves into bigger wolves, all the while costing us money. And it stains our own souls in the process, because an eye for an eye just leaves everybody blind.
Posted on: 17 February 2008, 01:59:59
Quote from: mara on February 16, 2008, 03:02:33 PM
Very little comes of war???
your right, things are able to stay the same, were you around for WW1, WW2, were you there when pearl harbor was bombed??
Yeah, alot does come of war. War is probably the biggest force for change there is for society. WW1 destroyed the empires of Europe, WW2 started the Age of America.
That doesn't mean it's a good thing.
Quote
The world isnt as safe as it seems, it is much more fragile of a place than you think..
The modern age was birthed in conquest and colonisation and slavery. From the Dutch and Spanish who initially started pushing out into South America and Africa to the Brittish who just rolled over everybody and everything else, that is where our modern problems started, because in most cases the local populations were nothing more than slave resources, intentionally left illiterate or under-educated so they wouldn't be able to resist while their countries were strip-mined. That's where all the economic and social disparities come from. That's where all the ill will was born.
It was made infinitely worse though during the 20th century. First the Cold War, and after that Globalisation has made the gap between the rich and poor countries of the world all but unbridgable, and in the meantime Western Culture is marketed to the world so agressively that you can't not expect a backlash.
QuoteAlso I hope you know we dont go and STEAL the oil, we set iraq up in the world economy, to SELL its oil.
Sadly NOT the case. 100% foreign ownership is allowed of Iraqi assets, and multinationals are allowed to remove ALL of their profit from the country, so there is no reason or mechanism for them to improve the country beyond the minimum they need to make money.
Posted on: 17 February 2008, 02:28:42
Quote from: mara on February 16, 2008, 03:47:14 PM
Sadams plan was simple, sell very little oil to keep the country going, and not to the US or UK or allies.
...
he repressed the people of the current country, made them suffer, and denied them rights, after all it is the peoples oil, not his.
Yep. He repressed and killed his own people, denied them their rights to free speech, free movement, free anything. Yet at the same time, he was the primary force for modernization of the country after the British Mandate there (pattern?) and the subsequent Hashemite rule.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein)
Quote
Saddam established and controlled the "National Campaign for the Eradication of Illiteracy" and the campaign for "Compulsory Free Education in Iraq," and largely under his auspices, the government established universal free schooling up to the highest education levels; hundreds of thousands learned to read in the years following the initiation of the program. The government also supported families of soldiers, granted free hospitalization to everyone, and gave subsidies to farmers. Iraq created one of the most modernized public-health systems in the Middle East, earning Saddam an award from the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO
I'm not defending him, I'm just saying not everything is as black and white. America couldn't care less about Saddam Hussein killing Kurds in the North or oppressing his own people - until he invaded Kuwait and threatened their oil interests. After the gulf war, Iraq was left to rot - until Saddam tried to restart the country's economy by selling oil in Euros rather than Dollars...
Posted on: 17 February 2008, 02:41:04
I'll shut up now.
Three things strike me in the legal maneuverings:
* The move to adult court of a just barely 14 year old
* The first degree murder charge with hate crime enhancement
* The defense decision to delay entering a plea for another month
The prosecution and defense are staking out initial bargaining positions because I doubt anyone wants to see this thing come to trial. Jury trials are a crap shoot. Despite the evidence juries can rule in ways completely unpredictable and there's no telling what may float to the surface in the course of a trial.
Does anyone remember the Rodney King beating? Despite video taped evidence that showed LAPD beating Mr. King on the ground handcuffed as he pleaded with them to stop, a jury ruled in favor of the officers who feared for their safety. Seven of them as I recall. Where did that trial take place? Oxnard, California!
The defendant is likely to get more of a jolt than 4 years, BTW. He can be sentenced to CYA as a juvenile until he's 25. I'm sure the interested parties will come to some sort of arraingement.
I see Claire, those points strike me also, another thing that hasnt come up yet, is some form of look into the life the boy lead at home with his parents and thier demeanor, I would like to hear thier statement to the public, Also I sure that they will be sued as has happened in many cases...
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Also I would like to take this time to point out something regarding the arguments about the War, earlier in this thread.
THOSE ARE NOT MY DIRECT OPINIONS, I was attempting to make argument against the "norm" for sake of argument, I always try to provide a contrast so that a positive discussion may employ...
if you would like to know my true opinions of the war, feel free to PM me.
Quote from: Claire de Lune on February 17, 2008, 11:25:56 AM
The defendant is likely to get more of a jolt than 4 years, BTW. He can be sentenced to CYA as a juvenile until he's 25. I'm sure the interested parties will come to some sort of arrangement.
Ah, that's what I wasn't sure about, if someone tried as a minor could be held past the 18th birthday. Still, 11 years max for premeditated murder, wiping someone out of existence because of who they are? Not enough.
Lia