Is it possible that the particular traits we harbor and consider part of our personality are not dictated by us, but our interpretation of the desire of the people we hope to attract?
Do women harbor "feminine" traits simply to appeal to men's desires?
and do men harbor "masculine" traits simply to appeal to women's desires?
How does this shake down with same sex couples?
Well.. I am a gay woman, and I've always just been feminine naturally, even when I was a little girl. I've never had to consciously act a certain way, and actually, if I was 'trying' to attract other gay women I'd want to act more masculine than I do, since in my experience other gay women tend to prefer women who are less feminine than I am. So if I ever did act more masculine around other gay women, it was an act, and not something I consider part of who I am or part of how I normally act.
Now, I'm dating a MTF, and I think she's feminine because that's who she is, not because she's worried about being appealing to me.
I'm bisexual, but prior to recently was almost exclusively attracted to females. I don't believe, however, that my masculinity can be in any way attributed to that attraction; I've dated far more guys than chicks in my time, and I tend to act more feminine with girls, and more masculine with guys. It helps with relating. Women tend to like the fact I can relate to them well, so that helps out in the long run. In short, nah, I don't think gender identity and attraction are linked at all.
S.D.
No, I would say not, as some people are not atracted to the oposite sex or same sex regardless.
It doesn't seem to be dependant.
Sara
Hi, I'm a 61 year old male to female, just sitting around my living room. I have been thinking about this question. At home I dress female all the time, I keep work separate dress male, but I have to eat. Life is not at all simple. The fact I dress female is accepted by those I live with. I am what I am and how I feel. Inside I identify myself as transgender. Those around me may simply see me as a guy who likes to dress feminine. I like feeling feminine, but wonder why. What's wrong with a dirty white tee shirt, an unshaven face and a can of beer in the hand. Its just not me. Why? don't know. Before my ex left in 1999, my dressing was at odd times and alone. After she left, it was all of the time except for work. When I go out (except for work) I dress dyke. But I still have my bra, panties, girls jeans, tee shirt. I just feel better when I am feminine.
I grew up with "uncle Jack Daniels" and "uncle Johnny Walker" and "uncle Bud Wiester." I am used to living a fanticy life of normalcy. So I see no problem with pretending that I am male to earn a living. Also the town I was born in economy was based upon mining, gambling, prostitution, and booze which many of the residents felt were ok because they were good for the economy. I left there when I was 13 years old. Who knows how I would developed as a female there. Might of made my living at it.
The point being being that my being female because of some fault in my y chromosome or some other chromosome, or am I a female soul that was accidently placed in a male body, or for some odd reason do I feel safer feeling female than male because of the unsettled unstable conditions of my birth family. That would be odd, because having male body, if I dress female, I am more of a target for extreme negative reactions.
I ponder these alternatives, but really what difference does it make. Was one of these or all of these. If my live would have been Brady bunch like would I still have these feminine feeling. What if my Dad had not died when I was 13 when male sexual urges started disturbing my sense of self. It was then that I started feeling it would be better to be female than male. What if my parents had not been controlled by booze or not cheated on each other causing many of the emotional storms in my household, would I have developed normal male emotions or still would have preferred to be female. My step dad kept up the tradition of boozing, but we moved and the cheating stopped, but the emotional consequences still were there.
Then also what if society not cared how I dressed or wanted to change my body. If I wanted to identify female, what would I have been like 48 years later?
What makes us? Who knows? and does it really matter.
How does this explain the fact that toddlers and small children often display feminine and masculine characteristics?
At that age, they generally don't yet care about "appealing to the desires of the opposite sex", but are often "all boy" or "girly-girls."
Which suggests that most of our gender traits are set before birth.
Or that we want to be like our peers, already at a very young age.
Nfr
Coming across feminine feels rather natural to me...its something I always more or less did; I was never a masculine guy
Ofcourse I have certain masculine traits, I dont have a 100% girly brain, and certain things are learned along the way if you get socialized as a male
On the contrary to what counts for most I behave more feminine towards a woman when I start liking her a little too much
Guess that makes me odd ???
I feel it is possible for some people to act masculine to attract people who may be attracted to masculinity (not all attraction pairings are for masc/fem. some can be masc/masc or fem/fem and some cannot be characterized within an attraction for masculinity or femininity)
Also, some men, whether they identify as as gay or not, can consider themselves feminine or display femininity. Likewise, some women, whether they identify as lesbian or not, can consider themselves masculine or display masculinity. And there are some people who may not display either, and may not consider themselves either.
Here is an example of how expectations of attraction may affect gender: in some gay communities here in Bulgaria, some men who are gay act hyper feminine because it is culturally attractive in some communities & expected. In some heterosexual communities, some men who are heterosexuals act hyper masculine because it is culturally attractive in some communities.
That example highlights another aspect of gender dynamics, they can change for some people over time. This to me means that attraction may not be the only thing that affects gender identity, but it could be one of many things.
Hi yah all,
I just think that as members of the trans community our sexuality and sexual attractions don't fit the male-female relationship stereo type.
Speaking for myself when I am out on the street I find myself, even though male to female emotionally, attracked to females.
When I day dream I can imagine me as a women having sex with a male, but I consider myself my girl friend's bitch.
I think that for me to have sexual relationships with a male he would have to be my friend first and sex would just happen.
This is never likely to happen because I am in a long term relationship and I am like the wolf committed to one relationship for as long as life permits. My last relationship was about thirty years.
I just don't think that sexual attraction is all that simple. Sex between a man and a women brings the possiblity of children which it takes at least 18 years to bring up. At 61 that commitment seems stretching things a bit much. I find that sex for myself is not a central activity within my loving relationship.
Quote from: Seshatneferw on February 17, 2008, 02:51:41 AM
Or that we want to be like our peers, already at a very young age.
Nfr
I second that here.
Hmm, I'm taking a sociology course about this. From what I've read so far, it seems we are groomed into being who we are. Parents want their children to be "normal" as in heterosexual, cisgendered human beings. They hold themselves accountable to others for their child's development. So since we're expected to be attracted to the opposite sex and that's how we've been molded, it seems only a fair statement that who we hope to attract at some degree (maybe not a big one) does influence how we act.
Quote from: Jeannette on February 16, 2008, 09:49:04 PM
Is it possible that the particular traits we harbor and consider part of our personality are not dictated by us, but our interpretation of the desire of the people we hope to attract?
Do women harbor "feminine" traits simply to appeal to men's desires?
and do men harbor "masculine" traits simply to appeal to women's desires?
How does this shake down with same sex couples?
No.
Evolutionary psychology would say things like that, but evolutionary psychology is a crock of hetro-patriarchal s**t.
nope....
i Know people who are asexual ... men and women... the guys are masculine... ones a soldier... and of the women i know, most are really feminine, just dislike sex and dont form attraction....
Personally, my being female has nothing to do with sex... or sexual identity.... im straight... but im a tomboy... oh gosh... i act masculineish.... i cant be female....
R >:D