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Some people seem to have internal conflicts during transition, some don't.

Your thoughts?

People are different. Some do not want to be run by the force that is inside them - they want self-determination. Thats me - I never wanted to start HRT and if I find a sensible way to stop I would do so immediatly.

Othes say it is their life and will go with the force within.

Everyone is different. I would of preferred not to give into GID but alast depression is a awful thing.

Alice

I didn't have doubts after I started -- the die was cast -- so to speak.

I tried to do my self-discovery prior to initial sessions, hrt, etc. That has apparently worked.

N~

Yeap - the dice was cast for me a long long time ago - I just do not belive in it's logic.

Alice

PS So much for me stopping the fight I am having with myself. I guess what I said in https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,9614.0.html is still true.

Little Miss Grammer here.  The "die is cast" is to be permanent, as the die can not be changed once cut.  Dice can always be rolled again.

Hmm - thanks for the grammer leson.

The "die was cast" a long time ago for me - I keep rolling the dice to see if I can find something different  ;D.

Alice

The wolf came in, I got my cards
We sat down for a game
I cut my deck to the Queen of Spades
but the cards were all the same

I've not had a moment of doubt

Like I said on a different post.  If I had not been able to transition and have SRS, I would be better dead!

tink :icon_chick:

And I know people who did transition and then killed themselves.  No way is perfect.

Quote from: tekla on February 25, 2008, 07:59:52 PM
And I know people who did transition and then killed themselves.  No way is perfect.

Perhaps they transitioned for the wrong reasons?  That's usually the case!

tink :icon_chick:

Quote from: Tink on February 25, 2008, 08:00:53 PM

Quote from: tekla on February 25, 2008, 07:59:52 PM
And I know people who did transition and then killed themselves.  No way is perfect.

Perhaps they transitioned for the wrong reasons?  That's usually the case!

tink :icon_chick:

but not ALWAYS  the CASE tink!!  there are other reason,s that it can happen after some one transitioned

and what are those other reason,s  you may ask  well let,s see here  there is the accidental drug  over

dose and beer also too a few other cases that have been  accidental. and the reason i  know this is due

to my work .which i would rather talk about makeing good choice and haveing options on this topic, then

just what i said  thats my 2 cent,s on this  ::) ::)

Quote from: Tink on February 25, 2008, 08:00:53 PM

Quote from: tekla on February 25, 2008, 07:59:52 PM
And I know people who did transition and then killed themselves.  No way is perfect.

Perhaps they transitioned for the wrong reasons?  That's usually the case!

tink :icon_chick:

So what are the right and wrong reasons. The problem is no-one know cause it is so individual.

Alice (The CD)

I have not had one single shred of doubt about what I am doing, but the mood swings are still a problem.

Quote from: Alice on February 25, 2008, 08:14:11 PM

Quote from: Tink on February 25, 2008, 08:00:53 PM

Quote from: tekla on February 25, 2008, 07:59:52 PM
And I know people who did transition and then killed themselves.  No way is perfect.

Perhaps they transitioned for the wrong reasons?  That's usually the case!

tink :icon_chick:

So what are the right and wrong reasons. The problem is no-one know cause it is so individual.

Alice (The CD)

If you are a woman and feel a need to transition to make your body congruent with your gender and live life according to the gender roles of your true gender. 

If there are other valid reasons, post them away, for I might be missing something.

tink :icon_chick:

Quote from: Alice on February 25, 2008, 08:14:11 PM

Quote from: Tink on February 25, 2008, 08:00:53 PM

Quote from: tekla on February 25, 2008, 07:59:52 PM
And I know people who did transition and then killed themselves.  No way is perfect.

Perhaps they transitioned for the wrong reasons?  That's usually the case!

tink :icon_chick:

So what are the right and wrong reasons. The problem is no-one know cause it is so individual.

Alice (The CD)

I would suggest that a CD, if you subscribe to the 'given definition' or something close, not transition. Although I have known a couple who decided later that they were TS and successfully transitioned and felt great about it. One wrote a book that was published.

I have heard a lot of talk about regretters, but have never met one. Nor seen many examples. Dr. McHugh mentioned 'many' who had regretted and were miserable back when he closed the Johns Hopkins surgical program, but never showed any proof of any kind, never cited a study or anything like that.

I would think, Alice, if you are having doubts that maybe, like Jordan, you should simply spend a lot of intimate time with yourself. If you are as against it as much as some of your posts sound like you might be, then maybe you owe it to yourself to postpone measures taken toward a full transition.

There is not one defining factor, I imagine, that would say definitely transition. That comes from the man or woman themselves.

I would suggest that if you are looking for 'logical' reasons you will probably not find them. Comfort reason, heart reasons, deepest desire reasons are available, but your posts don't seem to read as though you've found any of those.

It's a 'knowing,' luv. Not like a knowing the rate of acceleration of a a stone falling from 200 feet. Instead it's a 'knowing' within one's self. I cannot 'logically' explain to your my heart and my comfort. They simply are. You must find yours.

Nichole   


BTW, even if you stop transitioning you may well be depressed enough that continuing the anti-depressants might be a very good idea.

My doubts have been that I think I don't look physically female enough and I feel limited in what can be achieved from a gender change. Some days I feel very confident and others I think I still don't cut it. I'm quite realistic and observant about it all...

But at the same time I prefer where I am now....and I haven't had indecision....just dissapointment in both the NHS and not being able to transition very far and as well as I originally wanted..

Quote from: Nichole on February 25, 2008, 08:32:02 PM

It's a 'knowing,' luv. Not like a knowing the rate of acceleration of a a stone falling from 200 feet. Instead it's a 'knowing' within one's self. I cannot 'logically' explain to your my heart and my comfort. They simply are. You must find yours.

Nichole   

Thanks for your words Nichole -  they mean a lot to me.

Thats the thing - I do think my heart knows where it want to go - I just do not want to admit it so I fight with myself all the time. I will be good - I promise.

Alice

Quote from: Alice on February 25, 2008, 08:42:07 PM

Quote from: Nichole on February 25, 2008, 08:32:02 PM

It's a 'knowing,' luv. Not like a knowing the rate of acceleration of a a stone falling from 200 feet. Instead it's a 'knowing' within one's self. I cannot 'logically' explain to your my heart and my comfort. They simply are. You must find yours.

Nichole   

Thanks for your words Nichole -  they mean a lot to me.

Thats the thing - I do think my heart knows where it want to go - I just do not want to admit it so I fight with myself all the time. I will be good - I promise.

Alice

Alice,

There is no metaphysical 'good' and 'bad' to transition, except in an individual way. You can be very 'good' and have a ton of doubts.

I just think that if someone has a lot of doubts that she should honor those doubts and honor herself. If this doesn't somehow make you 'whole' then you sure as heck don't wanna do it. You haven't given reasons for why YOU want to transition. I think you owe it to yourself to get to the bottom of that.

Look-it, if it's right for you to be a CD, there is no shame in that at all. It doesn't make you 'bad' or 'less than;' it simply means you are Alice, a CD. You need to be pretty sure that you are Alice, TS, before you transition, imo. Just that can save a bundle of heartache.

But, you and only you can make that decision, luv. That's it. No one else can even begin to know if that will give you some peace in being who you are.

I wish one of us could give you 'the answer/s.' We cannot, but we can accept you for whomever you decide to be. Alice, you 'earned' that the day you were born.

Hugs,

Nichole

I've known a few.  One of which was Miss TGSF, and president of TGSF and all that, and was found hanging from a door frame, which, if nothing else, is kinda a common way to go.  I think that your degree of being happy going in, is pretty much your degree of being happy coming out.  One thing never changes everything else.  Sometimes it changes nothing.  Or less than nothing.  Plenty of people regret stuff.

Quote from: tekla on February 25, 2008, 09:25:07 PM
I've known a few.  One of which was Miss TGSF, and president of TGSF and all that, and was found hanging from a door frame, which, if nothing else, is kinda a common way to go. 

oh WHY  tekla WHY  oh for the love it all!! tekla like i told tink this iam telling YOU THIS NOW!

Quote from: debbie.j on February 25, 2008, 08:12:51 PM

Quote from: Tink on February 25, 2008, 08:00:53 PM

Quote from: tekla on February 25, 2008, 07:59:52 PM
And I know people who did transition and then killed themselves.  No way is perfect.

Perhaps they transitioned for the wrong reasons?  That's usually the case!

tink :icon_chick:

but not ALWAYS  the CASE tink!!  there are other reason,s that it can happen after some one transitioned

and what are those other reason,s  you may ask  well let,s see here  there is the accidental drug  over

dose and beer also too a few other cases that have been  accidental. and the reason i  know this is due

to my work .which i would rather talk about makeing good choice and haveing options on this topic, then

just what i said  thats my 2 cent,s on this  ::) ::)

and not only that  there are also case of FOOD POISIONING TOO ALSO!! so can WE please DROP this

and talk about better choices and options  ::) ::) ::)

I've had ocassional major doubts.

I've contemplated stopping transition two times since I've started it.  Those times I would consider it some occasional major doubts, if you ask me. 

The problem for me when I first started transitioning, was that like I thought that I will/could never live a normal life if I chose this path.  That I would always be some man CDing fulltime or something.  To this day I still do believe that somewhat, but really, I don't know why, but I can put it behind me easier now.

The first time I stopped transition for like 4 days, what a successful attempt huh? lol.  I just got sick of having to be this one dumb person that had to deal with this, and I didn't want to deal with it.  Like, on one end of the spectrum, I wanted to jump in this and get going, then when I did I wanted to fight it and stop and live happily as a guy.

I have a couple pretty major indecisions during transition, but overall, I kept going and just kept hoping for a happier day.  And as of right now, even though the whole deal with hormones/transition is dragging it's feet with me, at least I'm happy and content to some extent.  I still have a lot of stuff to work through, but at least I can tell myself what I'm doing is right, and I don't want to look back anymore.  Sure, everyone has bad days, but I mean they keep getting more scarce the further you go it seems; for me at least.

TBH when I first started hormone therapy, everyday for about the first month, every morning I thought to myself "Now is this what I really want".  Then I would usually think for a while about the implications.  After about ten errr... five minutes of reflection I took my pills.   :)  Best thing I have ever done.

Audrey

Quote from: tekla on February 25, 2008, 06:52:31 PM
Little Miss Grammer here.  The "die is cast" is to be permanent, as the die can not be changed once cut.  Dice can always be rolled again.

Then again, 'the die is cast' is usually viewed as a translation of Caesar's classical line 'alea iacta est'. In that context, taking his army out of his designated territory was throwing the dice; the outcome of that throw could be seen after the resulting civil war against Pompeius. So, yes, it is about dice instead of dies, and the idea is that once you throw the die you are committed to seeing the results of that throw. A new roll won't change the outcome of the original one.

  Nfr
  off-topic grammarian  ;)

I have no doubt that transition is the right course for me - staying the way I am is a short road to Perdition.

My doubts come from being afraid that I won't transition well, that I'll end up somewhere inbetween. So really, for me it's not a question of doubt between "transition or stay the same" as much as a question around "transition or die".

And no folks, I'm not about to jump in front of a bus!  ;)

Quote from: Audrey on February 26, 2008, 12:49:55 AM
TBH when I first started hormone therapy, everyday for about the first month, every morning I thought to myself "Now is this what I really want".  Then I would usually think for a while about the implications.  After about ten errr... five minutes of reflection I took my pills.   :)  Best thing I have ever done.

Audrey

Hon...if I looked as good as you it would be more clear cut for me as well... ::)
I think you've pretty much nailed it....you look great!

Quote from: tekla on February 25, 2008, 06:52:31 PM
Little Miss Grammer here.  The "die is cast" is to be permanent, as the die can not be changed once cut.  Dice can always be rolled again.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi111.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn125%2FBelladonna_06%2Fgrammartime.jpg&hash=1bb3aaadabdb11d6814a02e6663a984f8cbc3f13)
and btw Tekla love, its GrammAR not er, fallen on your own sword dearie ;)

RE the topic: nope, not one doubt, unless doubting your will to live counts.
R >:D

Quote from: Berliegh on February 25, 2008, 08:33:33 PM
My doubts have been that I think I don't look physically female enough and I feel limited in what can be achieved from a gender change. Some days I feel very confident and others I think I still don't cut it. I'm quite realistic and observant about it all...

Same here, Berliegh. I have no doubt on who I am and where I need to be/go but I do doubt my ability to pull it off successfully. I get depressed and very overwhelmed at times but I then calm myself down by saying to myself "baby steps -- remember, baby steps."

Someone posted recently the following quote from their therapist. (Sorry I don't remember who.)

Quote"When you are ready to lose everything, you are ready to transition.  That doesn't mean you WILL lose everything, just that you have to be prepared to do so."

Some seem to be able to make this decision without even thinking twice about it. Me? I'm getting there - just taking a little longer is all.

Dora

Quote from: Rachael on February 26, 2008, 03:25:27 PM

Quote from: tekla on February 25, 2008, 06:52:31 PM
Little Miss Grammer here.  The "die is cast" is to be permanent, as the die can not be changed once cut.  Dice can always be rolled again.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi111.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn125%2FBelladonna_06%2Fgrammartime.jpg&hash=1bb3aaadabdb11d6814a02e6663a984f8cbc3f13)
and btw Tekla love, its GrammAR not er, fallen on your own sword dearie ;)

RE the topic: nope, not one doubt, unless doubting your will to live counts.
R >:D

And it's a stunning return serve ... the crowd goes wild!!!

You two are just too much...

Quote from: lady amarant on February 26, 2008, 03:53:39 PM

And it's a stunning return serve ... the crowd goes wild!!!

You two are just too much...

Nope, Simone, not yet they aren't.

Once either gets to be 'too much' there are mods. ;)

N~

I haven't started yet, I'm still struggling with the initial decision.  However, if I do decide to do it, I'm sure I wont look back.

Quote from: Nichole on February 26, 2008, 04:08:28 PM
Nope, Simone, not yet they aren't.

Once either gets to be 'too much' there are mods. ;)

N~

I do hope it doesn't come to that. Sitting on the sidelines watching the action is lots of fun.

The forum grammar gestapo needed a taste of thier own medicine.... i was merely the vessel of public opinion.
R >:D

In the Neil Stephenson Novel Snowcrash,
In the beginning chapters it mentioned that in that future, GRS had progressed to the point of flawlessness.
However, it mentioned that Government only paid for the surgery one way.
And that some of the girls on the street were working to try to go back.

It was interesting.

Everyone is different.

People do things for different reasons,

Sara

Not that many go back you know....


And there should only  be one reason at the crux of transition

you ARE the gender you transition to physically.... men cant become women, women cant be come men. If you think that is so, you are fooling yourself.

if a male bodied person transitions to female, that isnt female, try as you might, you will never pass more than visibly. HRT wont turn your brain into a female one, you wont think like a woman, act like one, life will be a constant chore, a permanent act, 24/7 crossdressing. The 'reasons for transition' thread was an eyeopener to me. Some of the reasons had very simple reasonable solutions. None involving gender.
R >:D

Quote from: Rachael on February 28, 2008, 03:32:18 AM
if a male bodied person transitions to female, that isnt female, try as you might, you will never pass more than visibly. HRT wont turn your brain into a female one, you wont think like a woman, act like one, life will be a constant chore, a permanent act, 24/7 crossdressing.

I most certainly agree! That is why I believe HRT is also a diagnostic tool. Within weeks of starting my HRT I found the psychological effects of estrogen to be very dramatic and oh so welcomed. I would think that anyone who is not female would find the idea of having all the changes that HRT brings on, terrifying. Heck, just the idea of losing the "masculine sexual thought pattern" in itself would bring the males I know to their knees.

I find it's the psychological changes HRT brings on is the best thing to ever happen to my mind. It's like my brain has been craving estrogen all along. The physical effects are just an added benefit.

Dora

Quote from: Dora on February 28, 2008, 10:19:05 AM

Quote from: Rachael on February 28, 2008, 03:32:18 AM
if a male bodied person transitions to female, that isnt female, try as you might, you will never pass more than visibly. HRT wont turn your brain into a female one, you wont think like a woman, act like one, life will be a constant chore, a permanent act, 24/7 crossdressing.

I most certainly agree! That is why I believe HRT is also a diagnostic tool. Within weeks of starting my HRT I found the psychological effects of estrogen to be very dramatic and oh so welcomed. I would think that anyone who is not female would find the idea of having all the changes that HRT brings on, terrifying. Heck, just the idea of losing the "masculine sexual thought pattern" in itself would bring the males I know to their knees.

I find it's the psychological changes HRT brings on is the best thing to ever happen to my mind. It's like my brain has been craving estrogen all along. The physical effects are just an added benefit.

Dora

Good points Dora. In the U.K there used to be a private gender consultant called Dr Russel Reid in the U.K. He was very knowledgeable and good at his job and almost everyone who visited him managed to get on hormones. He would start them on a low dose basis. His theory was that if an individual didn't feel right on hormones and was really a guy and didn't like thet effects of what they were doing, they would stop. Usually the genuine cases would shine through and embrace the effects of HRT and the  others decided it wasn't right for them and stopped..

Quote from: Ashley Michelle on February 29, 2008, 01:33:13 PM

Quote from: tekla on February 25, 2008, 06:52:31 PM
Little Miss Grammer here.  The "die is cast" is to be permanent, as the die can not be changed once cut.  Dice can always be rolled again.

"die" as in "tool and die"?  made out of some kind of cast iron or something?

Well, that's the early 21st Cento version. I don't know if Caesar was acquainted with 'tool and die' or if he threw knuckle-bones and decide to cross the Rubicon after he rolled. Whichever, he crossed the Rubicon and he and Pompey had their running series of battles.

N~ 

I transitioned to fulltime--legal name change and all--nearly five months ago. In all that time I have never wavered once. Every single day since then all I have done is give thanks for my new life. Whatever doubts I might have had were fully worked through before I took the leap. As for HRT which I began nearly two years ago, I have thrived on estrogen as only a woman can, and there's no question it was something I had needed all along. Estrogen is the elixir of life for me. Maleness spells nothing but painful torment and death-- Good riddance to it! When I think back to how miserable, depressed, and even at times suicidal I felt when it seemed my way to transition was blocked, I know deep in my core there is no going back and I have saved my life by transitioning. So-- I wholeheartedly selected "I've not had a moment of doubt." I've been pleasantly surprised at how easy it all became once I did take the leap.

I've been full time for many years but I am more cynical than I used to be and see all the holes in the whole transitional process. Not many can transition and look totally female, maybe only one or two and it's dissapointing to know that....

When I stated I had unrealistic goals which I wanted to achieve and any indecision I might have had is deeply rooted in not being good enough, not the transitional process itself...

Quote from: Berliegh on March 02, 2008, 04:30:45 AM
I've been full time for many years but I am more cynical than I used to be and see all the holes in the whole transitional process. Not many can transition and look totally female, maybe only one or two and it's dissapointing to know that....

When I stated I had unrealistic goals which I wanted to achieve and any indecision I might have had is deeply rooted in not being good enough, not the transitional process itself...

That was a nice post, Berleigh.

But, I worry about you thinking 'you're not good enough.' I imagine that you are.

The horrible thing about womanhood is the ridiculous amount of 'lookism' we have ingrained into us. The way even the 'most beautiful' find ourselves 'not good enough' in our own minds.

Women who went through transition are saddled with that even more, I think, than other women.

But, you know, I have come to the conclusion that that is simply another effect of GID, one we maybe don't talk about very much at all, but that outs itself constantly when we talk about 'how I look.' We normally pass it off as 'all women have problems with the way they look.' We try to normalize it.

To a degree I think it is part and parcel of being a woman. Yet, I think in another way that women with our histories have an added burden of 'lookism' that comes from the circumstances of our births.

I wish I had some handy-dandy method for getting past that. All I do know is the less I think about it and obsess about it, the better it has gotten. At some point I just have to have said, "that's the best I can do. Now I just need to live my life."

Hugs,

Nichole

Quote from: Nichole on March 02, 2008, 06:21:05 AMAll I do know is the less I think about it and obsess about it, the better it has gotten. At some point I just have to have said, "that's the best I can do. Now I just need to live my life."

That's it! You said it perfectly.

Perfection!!! Wow. Thanks, Hypatia. You don't bandy about with that word very often. I'm honored.

Hugs,

Nichole

Well, I think your advice says everything essential that needs to be said about it in a very succinct and lucid way.

Quote from: Renate on February 25, 2008, 06:20:06 PM
Some people seem to have internal conflicts during transition, some don't.

Your thoughts?

I'm a "measure twice, cut once" kinda girl. My wavering and pondering is all done upfront in making the decision itself. But after that decision, I commit to it with a zealot-like stubborn ferocity that allows no further debate... which frankly, might be unhealthy at times. But that's how I work.

Transition was a little different upfront though. I didn't really ever "decide" to do it by weighing choices and options. I just finally saw who I was in it's entirety, and transition simply became an obvious, inevitable consequence of that. That SEEING and that DOING were one in the same thing for me.

~Kate~