In responding to Dennis in another forum, I was reminded of differences between the MTF experience and the FTM experience. Not to talk stereotypes but from our various experiences. I'd be interested to hear others' thoughts.
My experience comes from (1) being in an MTF/FTM marriage, (2) having been to MTF conferences (e.g., Esprit), FTM conferences (Gender Odyssey), and mixed conferences (e.g., IFGE), and (3) having worked with both MTFs and FTMs in transactivist organizations and Congressional lobbying.
MTF/FTM marriage. We have known at least 5 other MTF/FTM couples. Who can understand a transsexual better than another transsexual? True, but in our marriage, at least, there is a mix of understanding with a bit of a male/female gulf. He doesn't always understsand my female ways nor I, his male ways. It isn't a problem for us, but old baggage can get in the way. One unnamed couple is having some problems in coping with who does what in the marriage (e.g., who pays the bills?) BTW, I cook, have been called out of retirement, and pay the bills; he does the laundry. We both avoid house cleaning like the plague.
Conferences. In MTF conferences, the SOs worried that people would think they're lesbians. In FTM conferences, the SOs worried that peope would think they're straight. Same problem: How does my SO's transition affect my identity?
Transactivism The FTMs worked hard, didn't say much, and kept to the subject. The women worked hard, but real or virtual testosterone often got in the way and led to arguing and wheel spinning.
As I said, this has been my experience over the past 6 years as a ListMom, transactivist, friend and wife. What similarities and differences have others found between MTFs and FTMs? ???
Good topic, Robyn!
I'll preface this by saying that my observations are based on very limited experience; I only know 3 or 4 FTMs, and have spoken to, or read posts by, several others.
That being said, one difference I've noticed is that while MTFs seem to be pretty evenly divided as to whether they identified as gay or straight before transition, all the FTMs I've met considered themselves lesbian before they transitioned. This has led to a large percentage of FTMs remaining with their significant others through transition, while a lot of MTFs end up losing theirs. Does this fit in with your experience?
Another difference is in the efficacy of treatments; hormone therapy makes for remarkable changes in FTMs, while bottom surgery is still pretty unsatisfactory. On the other hand, MTF bottom surgery is very very good now, but hormone therapy can't remove the effects of years of exposure to testosterone.
Otherwise, we seem pretty similar; not surprising when we are both pursuing the same transition (though in different directions). And we both get a bit obsessed at times with breasts and facial hair!
Annie
Robyn,
I need to respond on the FtM conferences which I have not attended, I never even knew they existed, but the part about the SO being thought stright? My SO is stright. I guess it is all on how one identifies themselves. See, avery woman I have ever been with has been stright. I am just beginging to go through transition for the second time in 17 years(long story) but I have never been around a transgendered group before, so this would be the reason for my lack of knowledge in the broad spectrum of differences in just a transsexual. Thanks for the insight.
Marco
Don't know where you live, Marco, but there is an FTM conference (Google Gender Odyssey or write me for the URL) in Seattle over Labor Day weekend. Also one in WI the end of March. Google FORGE.
@Annie I agree with everything you pointed out!
I also think that in most cases its perhaps more accepted/easier to pass as a female going to male than as a male going to female. of course this is just my opinion
Quote from: Annie Social on May 06, 2006, 10:50:30 PM
That being said, one difference I've noticed is that while MTFs seem to be pretty evenly divided as to whether they identified as gay or straight before transition, all the FTMs I've met considered themselves lesbian before they transitioned. This has led to a large percentage of FTMs remaining with their significant others through transition, while a lot of MTFs end up losing theirs. Does this fit in with your experience?
This is going to vary a lot with the particular group of FTMs you talk to. There's actually a fairly big division between FTMs who used to identify as lesbian and those of us who never did; there are gay and straight guys on both sides of the fence, so the division is less straight/gay than former lesbian/never lesbian. We have political differences (views on the acceptability of trans men in women's spaces, colleges, etc; views on the LGBT community), cultural differences (they're quite steeped in lesbian culture, while we're more comfortable with gay male and straight culture), and relationship pattern differences, with the former-lesbian group making up the bulk of people who seem to remain with their partners after transition, be in dual-transition relationships, or date primarily lesbians and other trans men.
The rest of us are out there but we're quiet and often not found at trans conferences because we feel intimidated/excluded by the former-lesbian group who dominate FTM gatherings. So it's really not safe to generalize about the trans male population based on what you see at those gatherings. Some of us have quite a lot more in common with you ladies, including but not limited to losing our partners.
Quote from: kyril on January 05, 2011, 02:06:15 AM
This is going to vary a lot with the particular group of FTMs you talk to. There's actually a fairly big division between FTMs who used to identify as lesbian and those of us who never did; there are gay and straight guys on both sides of the fence, so the division is less straight/gay than former lesbian/never lesbian. We have political differences (views on the acceptability of trans men in women's spaces, colleges, etc; views on the LGBT community), cultural differences (they're quite steeped in lesbian culture, while we're more comfortable with gay male and straight culture), and relationship pattern differences, with the former-lesbian group making up the bulk of people who seem to remain with their partners after transition, be in dual-transition relationships, or date primarily lesbians and other trans men.
The rest of us are out there but we're quiet and often not found at trans conferences because we feel intimidated/excluded by the former-lesbian group who dominate FTM gatherings. So it's really not safe to generalize about the trans male population based on what you see at those gatherings. Some of us have quite a lot more in common with you ladies, including but not limited to losing our partners.
This.
And as a gay FTM who is with my pre-transition partner (unusual to begin with), the "how do you label yourself and your relationship" aspect is not necessarily the same either.
The wives of MTFs may not want to be seen as lesbians, but this winds up being *culturally* different from the not-really-gay heteroflexible dudes we gay FTMs may be with.
For example, while my SO will go to gay bars with me and has no problems with the fact that we are in a gay relationship, there is no real "place" for him at transgender conferences, as someone who is more of less immersed in "straight" culture with a minor bit of gay thrown in. Neither of us has ever been or will be a lesbian. ;D