I have known since I was a little kid that I was really a boy in a girl suit. But, I find myself waffling over whether or not to go through with the transition. One of the things that makes me hesitate is that I am very much attracted to men, and not at all to women. I'm not sure I want to limit my prospects to 10% of the male population.
So here is my question: In general do you find that you are well accepted in the gay community, or do you get a lot of, "You're not really a man, so why are you wasting my time?"
Also, does anybody have any suggestions for some good resources for straight women transitioning into gay men? Thanks.
Wrong wrong wrong waaaaaay wrong.
I went through the EXACT same situation. I saw myself as a gay guy. I didn't want a "straight" relationship. I wanted a guy on guy relationship and didn't know why.
For a while, I thought no guy would ever ever ever understand. However, I was WAY wrong. I met my boyfriend in July 2006. We were incredibly close friends...then ended up falling for each other/falling completely in love with each other. Finally, on July 27th, 2007 we decided to be boyfriends (Happy anniversary to us, today! 8 months!) However, he didn't know that I was a FTM. So, after about two months, my family told me that I had to tell him and that they would if I didn't. So, bawling my eyes out, I called him over to tell him
When he showed up, he knew something was wrong. I finally just blurted out the whole thing. After about an hour of ranting and crying my eyes out, he said "Brady, are you done?". I nodded and he said "Baby, I don't care about that. I know you are a guy on the inside...plus, what true girl could ever burp like that?" We started laughing and he wiped up my tears and said "Brady, I love you no matter what."
It was such a relief to tell him, plus that was when he first told me he loved me after 14 months of knowing each other lol.
We completely understand each other and we just go perfectly. He is SO accepting and not to mention gorgeous (if you want a picture, PM me) lol. Plus, he defends me when my family talks negatively about me. He is seriously the best boyfriend ever for a gay FTM. It's like a dream come true, truly!
So, yes you might have to do some heavy searching, but you will find an amazing guy who will know who you really are on the inside. I can give you ANY advice you need about being a gay FTM, so go ahead and ask anything :) or PM me if it's a bit personal.
Glad to have you here!
I am still figuring things out. I have a boyfriend who is ftm. We hosted the local gay boys group here a few months back, and it went really well. I am not interested in dating any of them at this point, and they do know we are transgender, as I used to know some of them when I was still dressing more girl, so I felt I needed to tell them I was the same person (cool thing, a couple of them were trying to figure where they had known me b/c of my eyes, but NONE of them guessed I am trans).
Anyways, it's still shaking out.
But some of them have been very willing to include me as a friend, and I get to go with them to movies, and other things.
I realize you may want to know more about dating, sorry, I can't help there.
I have sometimes dated (read: "slept with") a bi man I have known, and he sees me as male. He mostly dates just men anyways.
I am hoping to eventually be able to feel more part of the gay community, in larger areas, as well.
In a small town, it's a little bit odd, for a few reasons.
Good luck.
Joseph
Brady and Joseph,
Thanks for the info/encouragement. I really appreciate it. Makes me feel a little less insecure. :)
No problem. But, I promise, as soon as you find Mr. Right, you will be so much more comfortable with yourself.
He really doesnt even care if I fully transition. He said for me to not worry about it and it wont make him see me any differently because he knows what I am :)
In my experience, gay men have treated me terribly. They tell me that I'm the worst yaoi fan girl of all and that I should come back when I don't have a vagina.
Quote from: Milo on March 29, 2008, 01:44:04 PM
In my experience, gay men have treated me terribly. They tell me that I'm the worst yaoi fan girl of all and that I should come back when I don't have a vagina.
sorry to hear of your negative experiences. I don't know the term "yaoi fan girl" -- would you be willing to explain that?
I have certainly never been told anything like all that directly, though I suppose there may be some saying certain things behind my back, I don't really know.
I have known many gay men who are more respectful.
Sorry for you.
Joseph
Quote from: Buddhas Camera on March 29, 2008, 03:37:58 PM
Quote from: Milo on March 29, 2008, 01:44:04 PM
In my experience, gay men have treated me terribly. They tell me that I'm the worst yaoi fan girl of all and that I should come back when I don't have a vagina.
sorry to hear of your negative experiences. I don't know the term "yaoi fan girl" -- would you be willing to explain that?
I have certainly never been told anything like all that directly, though I suppose there may be some saying certain things behind my back, I don't really know.
I have known many gay men who are more respectful.
Sorry for you.
Joseph
yaoi is basically the Japanese word for gay porn. That's not what it literally means though XD But, yaoi doesn't always have to be porn, it can just be gay love, but that's usually called shounen-ai (boy love). I'm quite the fanboy of shounen-ai/yaoi, but in general, it's just girls that are.
Personally, I haven't met any gay guys that were completely turned off or unaccepting. Any time I have heard of a gay guy being unaccepting is when it was a 'queen' or flamer, and therefore he had the mentality of 'there's not a penis, not a guy'.
Of course it's all about who you surround yourself with too. I'm part of a fandom that is thankfully very open minded and the majority of the fandom is homosexual or bisexual men.
My experience is that bi guys are the most accepting and most likely to pursue a relationship with a transguy, where as hardcore flamres will not.
Quote from: discarded on March 29, 2008, 06:53:30 PM
Any time I have heard of a gay guy being unaccepting is when it was a 'queen' or flamer, and therefore he had the mentality of 'there's not a penis, not a guy'.
Well, if it's just them, I think I can handle it. I'm looking for someone with more emotional maturity anyway. :) I was worried that there might be some kind of wide-spread disdain for FtMs as a whole. One of those, "We need someone to dump on like we get dumped on, so you're it," deals. But of course, you're right. There are going to be open minded and closed minded people in any group.
To be honest I've met far more bi/gay guys who are genuinely curious and, to be blunt, turned on, by FtMs, especially those who opt to do everything but lower surgeries. But that might just be guys in the specific fandom I'm in (who find lots of things a turn on that 'normal' people wouldn't).
I've also found that if you befriend a guy (gay or otherwise), and you later tell him you're a transguy, he really doesn't care. Not all gay guys are shallow (flamers tend to be the more shallow of the gay guys, in my experience), and they do truly fall for the person, not the genitals. And most gay guys are attracted to the behavior and mentality of other guys, and not necessarily their genitals. Of course I don't presume to speak for all gay guys, just from my experience. I am pretty sure that most truly gay guys are a bit uncomfortable in a sexual situation with a transguy, but that's because they find the female genitals just as off-putting as we do (on ourselves at least). They get over it though. But I wouldn't expect a gay guy to go down on ya.
Again, just in my experience, every gay guy I've known (which is a LOT as I do homoerotic art), was not put off in the slightest by later learning I was trans. Most expressed curiosity and being even more attracted to me. Very few were butthurt over it. So I wouldn't worry (though I know you will...I did it too as I thought I was just gay when I first started transitioning and was worried I wouldn't find a guy who'd accept me and want to be with me).
Quote from: discarded on March 30, 2008, 01:20:15 AM
But I wouldn't expect a gay guy to go down on ya.
Lol. Well, shucks. That might be a deal breaker, then. ;D
Seriously, though, thanks for the up front advice.
Quote from: Jamie-o on March 27, 2008, 04:57:38 PM"You're not really a man, so why are you wasting my time?"
I think this saying goes for any sexuality really.
Quote from: Jamie-o on March 30, 2008, 04:34:16 AM
Quote from: discarded on March 30, 2008, 01:20:15 AM
But I wouldn't expect a gay guy to go down on ya.
Lol. Well, shucks. That might be a deal breaker, then. ;D
Seriously, though, thanks for the up front advice.
Hahaha believe it or not my boyfriend is willing...I just wont let him.
Someone pointed out to me in another forum that Out magazine has an issue on trans at the moment, including an article on "Trans->-bleeped-<-s". (Their term, not mine.) Anyway, I thought some of you might find it interesting.
http://www.out.com/
Accepted? In general.
More in the Bisexual/ Pansexual Comunity.
I don't necesserally need a Guy who's Gay.
As long as he sees me as a Guy who's Gay.
And, oh, what do I do, this really nice Gay guy is interested in me.
He does believe thus far I was actually born as a boy (physically) and I don't know how to tell him I'm trans.
Quote from: fluffy jorgen on April 01, 2008, 06:21:35 PM
Accepted? In general.
More in the Bisexual/ Pansexual Comunity.
I don't necesserally need a Guy who's Gay.
As long as he sees me as a Guy who's Gay.
And, oh, what do I do, this really nice Gay guy is interested in me.
He does believe thus far I was actually born as a boy (physically) and I don't know how to tell him I'm trans.
I know the feeling. I waited a few months before I told my boyfriend, but he completely understood :)
Quote from: Brady on April 01, 2008, 06:31:05 PM
I know the feeling. I waited a few months before I told my boyfriend, but he completely understood :)
What do you think about the aspect he could've found out from someone else?
This seems to be my Dilema. :-\
Quote from: fluffy jorgen on April 01, 2008, 06:38:24 PM
Quote from: Brady on April 01, 2008, 06:31:05 PM
I know the feeling. I waited a few months before I told my boyfriend, but he completely understood :)
What do you think about the aspect he could've found out from someone else?
This seems to be my Dilema. :-\
Well, I told him before someone else could. Infact, my own family threatened to tell him.
Thank God my Mum doesn't know him then.
Suppose it is misleading.
Thought overload. I suck at talking about how I feel.
I didn't tell my now-partner of nearly 3 years that I was trans until things started to get a bit more serious between us and he started to initiate sexual advances (and it was hilarious after the fact, because he revealed that he thought I didn't like him, as I never got a boner, despite all of our making out). Obviously, it was important he know if we were taking those steps in the relationship.
To be honest I was -horrified- to tell him. I did it via the computer (as we lived quite a bit aways and my family was NOT supportive of my seeing him). I cried as I did it. But, he just kind of shrugged it off and said that explained why I never got a hardon for him, then asked if that meant that I really was into it (which I was)...and that was that. I just straight up told him I wasn't born a male---and so I didn't have male genitalia.
Obviously, if your guy identifies strictly as gay, he might have more trouble accepting it. My guy identifies as bi, but with a male bias (he finds women attractive, physically, but has no desire to be in a relationship with one). There was some rough patches where he became depressed about my lack of 'male equipment'...and I understand that. Obviously if you intend to keep what you have below the waist, and your guy isn't into that, you may have more problems (in the sex department at least), but who knows...some guys like that about transguys, mine certainly does. >_>
This is the same question I have. I've always identified as male, and as a young child would cry because I was supposed to be a boy. But at the same time I'm totally attracted to masculine men. I've lived my life as a straight woman, but have always felt lacking in the sex department due to lack of male equipment. I could not shrug it off as basic penis envy, it's far more than that. Anyway, I'm now divorced with kids and am figuring out who I really am, and feel like something is missing sexually for me, but in reality, will taking hormones and becoming a man change things? I'll never have 100% what I crave (a penis and testicles), and then, as a gay man lacking a penis, how desirable will I be? At least with straight men I can imagine, though I'm sure they'd freak if they knew what went on in my head. I used to dress like a boy as a child. I haven't dressed as a man, though, but my clothes are basically jeans and tee shirts (or sweat shirts).
I appreciate all of your help, too, and any other info you can think of. Do hormones alone change you enough down there that it's worth it (assuming no bottom surgery?) Are prosthetics ok? Do the stp packys work?
Obviously I'm just in the beginning stages of thinking about this. Probably I'll just buy some baggier pants and wear a packy and see if that's enough to not feel totally lacking.
Jaye
@sneakersjay
well, I'm pretty new to all this, too, and probably can't give you much useful information, but I will try anyway.
I really can relate to this 'gay man lacking a penis' thing because this really bothered (still bothers me)--while I do like girls too, a relationship between two man has been some kind of an ideal to me, even at an age when I understood hardly anything about love or sex or homosexuality.
But this link to the lastes issue of OUT (http://www.out.com/index.asp) somebody posted somewhere around here, really gave me hope. Because even if gay men are just about a tenth as tolerant and ready to have a relationship/sex with a guy without a penis, as these article make them sound, they would still be much more accepting than I would have ever dared dreaming.
I can't tell you anything about surgery or hormones, but for me at least dressing as a man alone (even if I'm far from passing) made a difference.
When I bought my first male clothing it was important to me that it wouldn't be recognized as such since outing myself at school was about the last thing I wanted. Now - only about 3 months later - I absolutely can't bring myself to wear my 'old' girl clothes because they feel so wrong to me.
However, I didn't dress like a boy as a child (except that I hated pink) because my mum raised me rather genderless and as a child 'being a girl' had no more importance to me than 'being blond'--that was just how it was and nobody cared that behaved as 'boyish' as I wanted to.
@the yaoi fan girls somebody mentioned:
That's the reason I don't really want to out myself (or at least only if sombody asks directly and not in my profile) at a forum I hang around a lot:
Too many damn giggling and squealing 14-year-olds that tell everybody that they want to have SRS so they can f*** hot gay men...(it goes without saying that they have not the least idea what transitioning actually means)
Thanks, elincubus!!
I bought my first male clothes this week and i'm stoked. nothing too obvious, some cargos similar to girls in two styles and some tees. i've ordered a binder and a packy just to see, not to pass, but to feel a bit more complete?? then if i like it i'll see where it goes. maybe if i just dress more male and pack it will be enough. nobody has to know about the packing anyway, but that's my biggest issue and always has been. i wish i knew they existed years ago!! it will be complicated to come out and take T -- i have 2 kids an a job that requires a lot of paperwork and licensing and that would be a huge mess to change right now. so maybe in between. if people think im' just gay, well i am? LOL
sneakersjay,
I can only speak about my experiences, of course. Yours may vary, depending upon the company you keep. I tend to keep company with a lot of gay/bisexual men who are into 'furries' (an unaccepted fetish by society as it is). Nonetheless, gay or bi men who feel unaccepted by society themselves (though not for gender related issues), are more likely to accept us. Personally, only a handful of guys who I've told (and who were attracted to me) were put off by it (they were complete 'bottoms' and thus my lack of male equipment was too much for them to get over) and were no longer interested. Others were put off, but gradually accepted it and even forgot about it. And others still were actually -more- attracted to me (usually the 'tops'). All were equally as 'grossed out' by going down on 'chick parts' though. But that's understandable if they identify as mostly gay.
So I'd say you'd be pretty desirable. LOTS of guys are attracted to transguys because damn...we're HOT. =D
Hormones were definitely worth it for me. You'll get the body/facial hair, the deeper voice, the slightly different facial structure (fat redistributation), more muscle tone, and overall your body will look different and more masculine. It also changes you mentally. of course your sex drive increases. Your orgasms become more intense (mine did anyway), and your penis (clit) will get larger. Mine's about the size of my thumb. You will get random boners too. It's great! Likewise, top surgery and a hysto were definitely worth it for me. I was very large up top and I had them removed, and started T, within 2 weeks of each other.
Lower surgery...well...that's another story. I recently had a less invasive metoidplasty (just a release, no ligaments were cut, no urinary hook-up) and testicle implants, and to be honest, I regret the decision (and am meeting with the Dr. to potentially have it 'reversed') and would advise anyone thinking about it to consider WHY they're getting it and whether it's worth it (it certainly hasn't been to me...I feel like I made a 7k mistake).
There are lots of different trains of thought. Some guys are only happy if they have all of the surgeries (lower included), and they're happy with the outcomes. Some guys don't want surgery at all. Some don't want to bother with lower surgery because the available surgeries are expensive and leave a lot to be desired. For me, when I first started, I had to do everything---I was sure that I would not feel complete without getting a phalloplasty or lower surgery. But after I had my hysto...I don't know, it wasn't important to me anymore. I felt like a man. Even if I had chick genitals, no one knew but me, my family, and my lover. I was happy. I had found peace with who I was and what my body was. Everything functioned like it should---I got pleasure out of it (a lot...*Cough*), and lower surgery just wasn't a priority or necessary for me. I liked the way I was, chick parts below the waist or not. It took 26 years, but I came to peace with my chick genitals. Adding to that, the surgeries for transguys are just NOT sufficient (even the Dr. who did mine admitted this). I wouldn't advise -anyone- get a Phallo, simply because of the risks, costs, and lack of sensation. Metoids...well, SOME guys can pull them off, but usually it requires a more invasive metoid procedure that involves cutting suspensory ligaments, urinary hookup, and formation of a single scrotal sac....and even then you're left with something that's not going to let you 'pass' in the locker room half the time (ie: doesn't look enough like a bio male's equipment...at least to me).
I've never used a packy or anything like that. I never felt I needed one...as I mentioned, I made peace with the fact that I would never be like a 100% biological male...not until the lower surgeries improve drastically and become less costly. But I view myself as male, my partner does, my family does, and society does...that's all that matters to me. I'm a guy with a vagina...and that's just fine with me. I don't hate vagina (I'm bi)...I don't think chick genitals are gross or ugly or anything like that...even on myself. Now don't get me wrong, I would love to have a penis and balls and all of that, but not at the risk of complications, lack of sensation, lack of -looking- natural, cost, ect. I would much rather be happy...and I was before I got my metoid (now I feel like I'm a herm, locked in some genital limbo...extremely unhappy and just wishing the Doc will reverse it so that I can be happy with myself and my body again).
But as I said...everyone's different. Some guys -need- the lower surgery to feel complete and they don't care about the outcomes provided it's better than what they had before. I didn't (which should've been a red flag to my psychologist, but that's a moot point) I did it because of the potential to penetrate my partner with my own body and to look more masculine below the waist (and now that I have it I don't believe it accomplishes that satisfactorily, at least for me and my body type)...essentially to make me happIER, not happy.
If you do decide to go for lower surgery just make sure you do it because you feel it's necessary. I know at the time we don't think about the risks or complications...we want to think everything will go great and we'll be fine and we'll be one of those lucky few where everything is just PERFECT. Rarely is that the case. The surgeries don't accomplish the same results for everyone...on one guy it may look great, he may even look close to a bio male, but on another guy (even with the exact same surgery from the exact same surgeon), it may not accomplish that...differences in body type play a HUGE role in how it'll look on you compared to the photos you see and compare to. Make sure you get letters of referral (2) from therapists who've had trans patients before. It's their job to pick up on anything that may give them the impression that you're doing the surgery for the wrong reason (and thus it may not be the right choice)...obviously, if you want it, you're not going to think it's not for you---everyone is optimistic about these things. So just make sure you do it right if you're going to do it. Personally...I'd rather just accept my chick genitals and be grateful for the fact that I'm a very unique individual who is a man, but gets to have the additional pleasure of having chick genitals.
And I think it's a very guy way of thinking too. Ask any straight guy what he'd do if he woke up with boobs tomorrow, and 9 times out of 10, they'll tell you they'd play with them, not have them lopped off. =)
Thanks for all of that info, discarded.
I'm barely contemplating hormones, and after visiting all the before and after sites for bottom surgery i don't think i'd do it. i'd probably be happy with a large clit. I can't imagine having a higher sex drive than i already do, though, lol. Lack of male genitals is something i haven't really ever come to terms with even though i'd say that most of my life as a straight woman has been okay. And i know that surgery won't change that at all. I'll probably be happy with a soft packy for day and a larger more realistic one for ehem, play (even if it's by myself!!) I love rubbing dildos with my hands as if it were mine...(probably tmi).
I'm not dating now as a straight female, so i'm not sure what my options would be as a gay male. knowing tops might like me would be a plus, or bi's. this is a world i'm so unfamiliar with; i probably would have had more issues with my body had i been attracted to women instead of men.
I'm still at the 'omg, what am i even contemplating??' phase, so all of your personal experience has been helpful. I'm sorry your bottom surgery didn't go as well as hoped, and that it can be fixed.
Jaye
I am a closeted bisexual mtf, but I just wanted to say that I adore you guys. A couple of the best relationships of my life were with ftm guys... I know I probably don't technically count as a "guy," but I still present as male and did so with the ftm guys I dated...
Resurrecting this topic just to say thank you Brady. I'm not going to lie; your post made me cry. I attempted my only relationship with a guy a few years ago and quickly ended it. He was a great guy, but I found that I couldn't date him as a girl and couldn't bring myself to talk to him. I'm bi and honestly terrified of transitioning. I'm afraid of ending up in this limbo of "you're not straight, you're not gay, you're not a girl, you're not a guy." It's really nice to hear a case where this isn't true. I hope that things are working well for you.
Also, discarded, your last line made me crack up.
LOL at what I wrote way back when!!
Here I am, 2.5 yrs on T, post top and lower surgery. Who'd a thunk it?!
Jay
I believe that while some gay guys are gay completely for bio guys, there does exist gay guys who see all of you, who you are on the inside and who you are on the outside. My FTM friend whose only 16 had a boyfriend =) I'm very happy for them and it's maded me think, well if he can find someone, so can I. You don't need every gay guy to look at you and see you as the man you are, you just need to find that special one =)
Quote from: Fie on October 27, 2010, 10:46:06 PM
I believe that while some gay guys are gay completely for bio guys, there does exist gay guys who see all of you, who you are on the inside and who you are on the outside. My FTM friend whose only 16 had a boyfriend =) I'm very happy for them and it's maded me think, well if he can find someone, so can I. You don't need every gay guy to look at you and see you as the man you are, you just need to find that special one =)
well...I don't know...not all of us are looking for a committed relationship right away :)
Quote from: kyril on October 27, 2010, 11:57:31 PM
well...I don't know...not all of us are looking for a committed relationship right away :)
That's true 8)
Quote from: Fie on October 27, 2010, 10:46:06 PM
You don't need every gay guy to look at you and see you as the man you are, you just need to find that special one =)
...or two. Or three.
Or four, or five or six ;)
or seventy-two... ;D
Heh, you are obviously more ambitious than the rest of us, kyril. ::)
This is a really helpful topic for me, thanks for dredging it up Lee. I'm super worried about this exact thing, as I have dated gay men in the past and usually it doesn't work out because of my lack of male genitals. I guess I will just keep hoping that I'll eventually find a guy who accepts me as I am. Or 72 of them. :)
Let's set some ground rules here folks; if anyone finds a pack of 72 great guys who don't care, you are hereby required to share.
Thank you. That is all.
I didn't mean I wanted them all at the same time!
Quote from: kyril on October 28, 2010, 08:26:36 PM
I didn't mean I wanted them all at the same time!
DEATH BY SNOO-SNOO! :laugh:
Would be nice to know where one could find of these gay guys that would accept FTMs. I haven't had much luck finding gay guys, let alone accepting ones.
All over the Internet. I suppose you could find them where gay guys congregate in meatspace, but the nice thing about the Internet is that it encourages people to have a frank conversation about what they do/don't like and want right away before there's even the slightest potential for misunderstandings or feelings of being misled.
It's weird, I could never tolerate the concept of Internet dating/hookups as a "straight woman." Just the way straight guys behave online is...creepy. Gay guys, though, are totally cool, very direct and straightforward and upfront. And there's no risk with early disclosure as long as your profile doesn't reveal your identity (low risk if you use face pics...I use face pics because I can't think of any way to produce appealing body shots, but you might be able to)
Quote from: Teknoir on October 30, 2010, 10:35:36 PM
DEATH BY SNOO-SNOO! :laugh:
Would be nice to know where one could find of these gay guys that would accept FTMs. I haven't had much luck finding gay guys, let alone accepting ones.
I'm currently in this boat, getting along fabulously with a guy. I have yet to disclose. So far he has said that size does NOT matter in the least to him, so that's a start in the right direction. I hate having to skirt issues, though. But I'm not disclosing unless he's getting into my pants. We'll see.
Jay
Quote from: kyril on October 31, 2010, 01:07:00 AM
It's weird, I could never tolerate the concept of Internet dating/hookups as a "straight woman." Just the way straight guys behave online is...creepy. Gay guys, though, are totally cool, very direct and straightforward and upfront. And there's no risk with early disclosure as long as your profile doesn't reveal your identity (low risk if you use face pics...I use face pics because I can't think of any way to produce appealing body shots, but you might be able to)
I found that! When I tried to use those sites as a straight woman, everything that was said just seemed gross. There seemed to be a massive obsession with this 'divide' between the genders. Whereas in a gay context I am cool with it and like to be up front about being trans.
Well, I don't know if anyone is interested in this still, but I figured I'd post my experiences anyway, on the offchance that it helps someone :D (Also, first ever post guys! I'm nervous! :P)
Well, I've only been out for about a year, but I live in Australia (everyone is so accepting here! Yay!) and I had the straight forward approach to telling people/coming out. I wasn't really very tactful, pretty much using the 'I'm a dude, if you don't like it, GTFO!' approach. A lot of my friends told me that just proved what I was explaining though :P But regardless, I'm out now, and just finishing up with college. EVERYONE at my school knows pretty much, and the ones who don't and give funny faces at the mixup of pronouns used around me just get laughed at good naturedly.
I've always been heavy on the guys, like, FLAMIN! But I'm also the top personality, and (like to think) I'm quite manly, so my poor friends are always very confused, but seem to handle it okay with a little light explaination :P But most important was this SUPER sexy male friend of mine (who I'd been crushing on for forever :P) and he was so great. He had admitted a few times when I was female to finding me attractive. He was one of the first people I told, and surprisingly was totally cool with it! He said he was straight, but I knew otherwise, and with a lot of gentle conversation and prodding he finally admitted he might be a 'little' attracted to guys, which he said wasn't being helped by my involvment in the matter. I would laugh and tell him I totally didn't count, at which point he would argue and say that I did.
I didn't understand that statement at first, but he took to me being a guy almost as well as I did! I think it just made sense in his brain and clicked, because he instantly started calling me by my new legally changed name, and even started to use male pronouns to describe me, regardless of company. If he was around friend when talking about me, and they got confused, he even went so far as to calmy explain my situation to them :P
After a few months of this, and more gentle prodding on his sexuality, it because apparent that he's MUCH more into guys than he would readily admit to at first (most especially to himself!) and that he was still struggling with the fact that he found me attractive, but now as a guy. Eventually we came to the conclusion that he was bisexual, but with a bias for men, meaning he's not at all interested in a relationship with women, just attracted to them sexually.
Finally, after a long time of beating around the bush and lots of flirting, we ended up in an informal relationship (meaning we were everything but were sketchy saying 'couple') in which he completely saw me as a guy. Not only that, but I'm the top in our relationship! Obviously there are some guys in this thread who are happy with sexual intercourse or touching or whatever, but I personally can't stand the idea of him seeing me downstairs, or even touching my chest, but what was more surprising was the fact that he was of the same opinion :P He says seeing my female parts would just screw with his head because it's so deeply ingrained on him that I'm a guy, which mostly just means lots of solo sexing for him (lucky boy! :P).
After a few months of that relationship, I got impatient and jealous (wanted him mine damnit!) and asked him out formaly. And the adorable boy! Omgosh, he was so happy he cried! He said that he takes me for who I am, and wouldn't have me any other way, and also that he's never felt so happy in any other relationship in his life, than he has with screwed up old me :P So here I am now, not on T or anything, but wearing a binder, presenting as male and openly out, with a boyfriend who will readily admit to his friends that I'm a guy (and just how much he likes having my fingers inside him! O.O He really needs to keep some things to himself!) and who's only issue with it is that he keeps slipping up to his parents and calling me he! He's preparing to come out to them soon with the mindset of 'You like my boyfriend the way he is or GTFO!' (we seem to have that approach in common :P) and say's he plans to live out his life with me.
So it can and does happen :) Also, as another note, I socialise a lot with gay people, and they've never seemed to have an issue with me. My best friend is gay, and was the first person I told, and the only thing he had to say on it was 'Well that explains a lot!' which was quickly followed by 'If you ever get surgery, we should totally be f*** buddies.' I can say he's the most polite person I know, be he's a fantastic example of someone who's so gay they sparkle, and he (and all of his millions of past and present boyfriends) has never had a problem with me.
Ahhhhh, I had no idea how long this post went on for! I'm so sorry!!! Got carried away talking about my amazing bf, I'll stop now :P
Hope I helped some!
Reading this entire thread...I feel SO MUCH better about myself. Just like a lot of you and/or us, I feel the same way. I consider myself more pansexual where gender to me doesn't matter but I do admit, I find men more attractive to me currently. That probably has something to do with most of my relationships (all except for one) were with women and they didn't ever really get anywhere. For me, it's I currently desire a man. But with my open-minded view point, if I fall in love with say another FTM or and MTF, then that's who I love.
But yes, I have been worried about going to a gay bar or something and someone not being okay with me. XP If that makes any sense. Because I'm not on T yet. But I do dress like a guy and do all that jazz full time and have been and since I can get my ID changed now, I have a lot more confidence in the world. Like for me it's "well I know I'm a guy and if they think I'm not well whatever" sort of thing. But I do lack the confidence to go to a gay bar yet.
Reading all these lovely stories and advice and such, I feel much better and even gave me a boost in my confidence so that I could go with some friends or something some time soon even. ^^
So I guess, since I've rambled away, what I am trying to say is thanks! ^^
I'm also glad this thread is here...
I always thought I was strange growing up as a girl and being in a very trusting relationship during highschool. But it wasn't right. My ex treated me wonderfully but I could not stand the thought of being with him as a girl, therefore I could not see any future with him.
I kept discomfort in for a long time into my 20s when I started to lightly date around, looking for straight guys who turned me off horribly. The whole, 'but you are a girl...you're a beautiful girl,' made me dash to the other side of the country (and canada's a big country). So...that didn't work out too well and I finally came to accept after been given a lot of gay porn by my ex as a present (ironic haha), that there was definitely something wrong and if I don't fix it, I won't ever be happy.
Knowing now how ->-bleeped-<- goes, I actually don't have a lot of good sources to meet men who are thinking with the brain in their head not the one in their penis. Most of them have expressed that they wanted a 'real man' which made me a little dypshoric. Some of them said that they can only be friends with ftms. Some of them would lie for the sex (mostly straight men who suddenly turn gay).
I'm probably not looking in the right places but I realize that it's not just trans people who have trouble finding the right person...we're all like that ^^;.