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I'm really agast at the idea of a pet cat living indoors their whole lives.

Personaly I think a life without risk is not a life at all. There is something untamed in cats and I think they need to roam free. My cats love their life to come and go as they please. Fighting their fights, annoying the next door neighbours dog, hunting, killing, bringing a tribute of death to the house, sleeping outside in the grass, climbing trees and crapping in the garden. They live a full life. Keeping them indoors would be a kind of madness for me and my cats.

What are your thoughts?

It probably depends on the situation/person/animal whatever, personally I would not keep my pets indoors if I can help it.

We keep ours indoors. But, not everyone does. Our complex has this feral cat population that is totally obscene. New litters about once a month. 7-9 apts/building, 15 bldgs and there are as many feral cats around here as there are people I would imagine.

I suppose one might make the same argument about dogs. Feral dogs do pretty well when left 'free to roam.'

My personal thought is that anyone who allows their animals to 'roam free' without spaying and neutering is doing a disservice to untold animals and to untold humans. In point of fact, 'roaming free' is a good way to have them eaten by coyotes in much of the USA.

N~

Depends on where you live and whether it's safe for them. I let my cat out as much as she wants, but make sure she's in at night because we have raccoons in the area. As she gets older, she doesn't want to spend as much time outside.

Dennis

I totally agree about the spaying and neutering. I also understand if the environment outside is actually really not good for cats, though in this case I would question if a cat is a viable pet option.

My cats choose wherever they want to go.  Even so, they spend most of the time indoors.  Cruel?  Not hardly!  I wish someone would feed me for free the rest of my life, brush me, cuddle with me in bed, pay for all my medical, treat me like a queen, even clean up after me in the bathroom.  I would not care that my average lifespan was so short.  I would be in heaven!

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

if it is a domestic cat, yes.  feral, no.

personally i don't want my cats to die, i'd like them around as much as possible so i keep them inside.

Quote from: NickSister on April 01, 2008, 04:41:17 PM
I totally agree about the spaying and neutering. I also understand if the environment outside is actually really not good for cats, though in this case I would question if a cat is a viable pet option.

The problem being of course, that with the typical lifespan of a cat (let's say about 10-14 years), one can change houses, towns, states, move from a rural or suburban area to an urban area, etc.

So by that logic, a cat is a viable pet option if you can garuntee that you will live in a safe area for outside cats for the next 10-14 years, and since very few people can garuntee such a thing, cats are not viable pet options.

My Kitties love being outside too much to be inside. I put in a cat door so they could come and go as they please. They bring in all sorts of lovely things.. :icon_yikes:

It's not just about the well-being of the cats.

Domestic cats kill hundreds of millions of songbirds each year. Declawing has only a limitted effect. Lori, sadly your cats are normal. :(

They are not natural predators -- feral or not, they only live among humans, and were brought to this continent (assuming you don't live in Africa) by humans.

Domestic cats will learn to love indoor life as well as outdoor, provided they are cared for.



I'm all for BIG cats living outdoors though!

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F6%2F6e%2FCougar_pounce.jpg%2F200px-Cougar_pounce.jpg&hash=f81895db6807a24041dfe03239cf9604249f41e9)

p.s. I'm not trying to criticize anyone with outdoor cats. It's just an impact, one of many human impacts on the environment, that is often not acknowledged.

I have four kitties.  They live indoors and will do so for the rest of their lives.  I don't want them to eat garbage or get bitten by rabid animals out there.  They are my babies; I spend plenty of money on their care (medical, food, and whatever else), and they have to abide by mommy's rules just like children do.

Now I do take them to the patio on a daily basis; we play for about thirty minutes and then back to the apartment.

tink :icon_chick:

depends on the cat really. completely feral cats will never be happy cooped up indoors. i tried, but many of the strays i had were so unhappy, they tore the screens out of my windows to get out and just mewed at the door constantly. a kitten can adapt but an older feral cat (the type where you're the first human to handle 'em) need to go out. all cats have that need really, though in my opinion it's not good for them. cats can never be fully domesticated as can dogs.

I have 3 Cats and they spend the majority of their time indoors.

When I am home, they are allowed in the garden (which has high walls, so they cannot get out), they like to roll in the dirt and watch the birds fly over.

I would never let them out unsupervised or into the great outdoors, there are to many hazards for them.

Buffy

I grew up with indoor cats. They seemed happy enough until later in life. They constantly tried to get out and when they couldn't they refused to use the litter box.

well, it doesn't seem fair to the cat, really, to keep them indoors all the time.

my last cat was a stray who was very happy being an outdoor cat. all he needed was a little food and water, and he was good to go.

he had a couple of girlfriends that he brought over once in a while (never more than one at a time). he would entertain them by jumping around and really showing off in front of them. he was very human-like.

when i moved, i wanted to bring him, but two other guys in the neighborhood claimed him, so i had to leave him behind. i miss him.

-ellie

what do you know?  now people are trying to tell you how to raise your pets.  get real please!  tsk tsk tsk.

Rats! I spent € 4,000 on my Natanielle last year.  She got terribly ill. Foolish me! I could have given her "a little food and water and she was good to go"

::)

We had one kitty who came and went as he pleased from kittenhood through old age, generally only coming inside to eat and nap on occasion (and when it was really cold). Otherwise, he roamed the woods all day or night.

He seemed awfully content and happy.

He did however spend the last two years of his life living within our condo, as we took him in when my parents moved and were going to just LEAVE him behind. I think he thought of it as his "retirement home."

He seemed awfully content and happy.

We now have two cats that have lived their entire lives within our condo walls.

They seem awfully content and happy.

~Kate~

My personal thought is that anyone who allows their animals to 'roam free' without spaying and neutering is doing a disservice to untold animals and to untold humans. In point of fact, 'roaming free' is a good way to have them eaten by coyotes in much of the USA.

My cats, and I seem to have always had more than one in the house all my life, go in and out, they prefer in after the tenth year or so, but they went out back when we lived on the farm, and they learned to give the feral (read, "not domesticated" feral sounds so harsh, its just their state of nature in the natural world) cats a wide berth.  Myself, I spend several afternoons there over the years watching the mama feral cat teach the young'ns to hunt.  Mind blowing example of nature at work.  So they eat (along with birds, also things like mice and rats) or coyotes get 'em and they are eaten - that's nature read in tooth and claw as Darwin would have it.

Its kind of funny that our vaunted "domestication" program does not even last a generation in the wild.  I mean I always got the cats spayed and declawed - more for the furniture than the birds I must admit, but they went out in a rural / small town area.  To no ill effect on either the cats, or the area.

Quote from: Natasha on April 02, 2008, 05:40:28 AM
what do you know?  now people are trying to tell you how to raise your pets.  get real please!  tsk tsk tsk.

i wasn't giving advice, dear. just stating an opinion (and staying on topic)

want some advice about raising pets, love? don't be disrespectful to them, and don't treat them cruelly. likewise with people...  :)

-Ellie

feed 'em, water 'em, love on them, and make sure they get enough physical play time - works for humans and pets.

Quote from: Blanche on April 02, 2008, 06:44:04 AM
Rats! I spent € 4,000 on my Natanielle last year.  She got terribly ill. Foolish me! I could have given her "a little food and water and she was good to go"

::)

ha ha ha ha i dont own any cats but i have dante & desdemona.  i wont say how much they've cost me to raise them ;) 

this is dante, my great dane;

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi118.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo116%2Fkatiaray%2Fdan.jpg&hash=47b2c6b42030e558814dda29d0e20c10d32d97ef)


desdemona


desdemona, still wet but already brushed
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi118.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo116%2Fkatiaray%2F26.jpg&hash=55068d97d6405c5ee0a6eea08129525a5418912a)


desdemona looking terrific after her bath & makeover
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi118.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo116%2Fkatiaray%2F011.jpg&hash=5827e25c94589375ce5721c288f9d2659321110d)

there's only one kind of animal that i treat heartlesssly, idiot animals.  but dante and desdemona are not one of them.  ha ha ha ha ;)

       Of course it's OK.  I mean, all other mammals do and it doesn't make sense to single out cats for this.  I am quite resolute in my opinion and I will never change it.  In answer to your question - YES, it is okay for cats to have livers.

Quote from: Natasha on April 02, 2008, 02:18:43 PM

this is dante, my great dane;

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi118.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo116%2Fkatiaray%2Fdan.jpg&hash=47b2c6b42030e558814dda29d0e20c10d32d97ef)

awww he's lovely.

Quote


desdemona


desdemona, still wet but already brushed
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi118.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo116%2Fkatiaray%2F26.jpg&hash=55068d97d6405c5ee0a6eea08129525a5418912a)


desdemona looking terrific after her bath & makeover
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi118.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo116%2Fkatiaray%2F011.jpg&hash=5827e25c94589375ce5721c288f9d2659321110d)

so is she. gorgeous! but what is she exactly. was thinking guinea pig but then never seen one like that with all that pretty hair.

I could never have an indoor cat....never. Unless of course I adopted one that was older and was NEVER outside. I believe they take risks like the rest of us. They will do just fine if they are brought up going outside from the start. They are generally smart animals and can take care of themselves.
I love cats!! Actually I am amazed to see how many responses were "yes"...

Christine

Wow Natasha, Dante is beautiful. He looks intelligent too.

Dennis

Quote from: Natasha on April 02, 2008, 02:18:43 PM
there's only one kind of animal that i treat heartlesssly, idiot animals.

Excuse me?

I'm allergic to cats, and I don't like them. They can please stay outside.

Quote from: ell on April 02, 2008, 05:59:14 PM

Quote from: Natasha on April 02, 2008, 02:18:43 PM
there's only one kind of animal that i treat heartlesssly, idiot animals.

Excuse me?

She saaiiiiiiid

Quote from: Natasha on April 02, 2008, 02:18:43 PM
there's only one kind of animal that i treat heartlesssly, idiot animals.

what are you going to do about it?

I had my cat Trixie-belle for 17 years, raised her from a kitten.  I lived in the city so she wasn't at any risk when let out, except for getting hit by a car, which unfortunately happened when she 6mths old.  The incredible thing was after the accident, in which she had her jaw and pelvis broken, she never ventured out of our property ever again!  Luckily the vet said, the car must have been going so fast that it literally threw her into the kerb instead of running over her(which is why most die), and that was how she broke some teeth, jaw and pelvis.  Expensive but worth it, she was my beautiful tabby and I loved her to bits!!  :)
Just wanted to add, in her first two years of life, she did catch mice and a few sparrows.  I was told by the vet that cats usually hunt the most in those first two years, as they mature and are well cared for, that instinct sort of dies out.  She had one litter and then I spayed her.  She died peacefully in her sleep.  :)

Quote from: Rebis on April 02, 2008, 06:47:55 PM

Quote from: ell on April 02, 2008, 05:59:14 PM

Quote from: Natasha on April 02, 2008, 02:18:43 PM
there's only one kind of animal that i treat heartlesssly, idiot animals.

Excuse me?

She said

Quote from: Natasha on April 02, 2008, 02:18:43 PM
there's only one kind of animal that i treat heartlesssly, idiot animals.

what are you going to do about it?

experts always say how damaging it is to speak badly to a pet, but look how we speak to other humans. "It's nauseatin' Mon!"

i can't report her rudeness to a moderator because she already is a moderator.

Good one, Baby Mamba. Now go report to yourself.

-Ellie

Well, another thing to keep in mind is that indoor kitties will live for 18-20 years, while the typical life span of an outdoor cat is 3-4 years.  Also, my kitties would think it cruel to be put outdoors anyway. After all, indoors is where all the food, sleeping places, etc. are. And my oldest cat currently, at over six years old, would probably be terrified if put outdoors. They have windows to look out, and cat trees to lounge on. They have all the advantages of being able to look outside, without any of the hazards, and I don't have to worry about them bringing in fleas.  A few of the reasons why we keep our kitties inside are:

1. When we get home from work, we want my kitties there to greet us, be in one piece and clean.

2. I adopted them because I love them, not to let them run around wild outside.

3. Where we live, there are coyotes, raccoons, large owls, other wild cats, etc

4. I don't want the outside coming inside my place.

5. There are people who kill cats they can catch, brats who grab any kitty that doesn't run away from them, dogs kill cats, people speed up to try to hit one, and now with the dog fighting rings any lonely cat is looked at as training bait for the pit bulls if they can be caught.


No, thank you, I don't want my kitties to go through that misery.  And incidentally the males are neutered and the female spayed, and they are all microchipped just in case.

tink :icon_chick:

Quote from: Tink on April 02, 2008, 07:26:53 PM
5. There are people who kill cats they can catch, brats who grab any kitty that doesn't run away from them, dogs kill cats, people speed up to try to hit one, and now with the dog fighting rings any lonely cat is looked at as training bait for the pit bulls if they can be caught.

Thanks a lot, Tink.   Now you've made me scared to go outside.  seriously. 

Quote from: Rebis on April 02, 2008, 07:38:40 PM

Quote from: Tink on April 02, 2008, 07:26:53 PM
5. There are people who kill cats they can catch, brats who grab any kitty that doesn't run away from them, dogs kill cats, people speed up to try to hit one, and now with the dog fighting rings any lonely cat is looked at as training bait for the pit bulls if they can be caught.

Thanks a lot, Tink.   Now you've made me scared to go outside.  seriously. 

LOL  ;D  you are not a kitty, Rebis.

tink :icon_chick:

Quote from: NickSister on April 01, 2008, 03:57:37 PMMy cats love their life to come and go as they please. Fighting their fights, annoying the next door neighbours dog, hunting, killing, bringing a tribute of death to the house, sleeping outside in the grass, climbing trees and crapping in the garden.

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are of all the cats I lost that way.  :'(

it'd be nice if people quoted everything i say and not just what it's "convenient".
i said:

Quote from: Natasha on April 02, 2008, 02:18:43 PM
there's only one kind of animal that i treat heartlesssly, idiot animals. but dante and desdemona are not one of them.  ha ha ha ha ;)

fish, lizards, mules are idiot animals, yes?.  now if you'd excuse me,  i have more important things to do like posting the news for example.

golly gee wilikers tink!  all that for your cats.  a little food and water won't do? >:D

Someday maybe I'll be one of Tink's cats.   :)

Quote from: Natasha on April 03, 2008, 02:39:49 AM
fish, lizards, mules are idiot animals, yes?. 

Oh hi, Natasha! heh heh. *waves by wiggling fingers*

still mad at me, huh? i don't suppose i could just bail out of this argument right about now?

-Ellie

*dashes into her little corner*

If that is what you want out of your pet, then it is OK to have them live inside. They will adapt to their environment. I have had both and in between with a lot of success. If your cat goes outside, be prepared for something to happen, unless you have trained your cat to stay in the yard, which I doubt. A cat has a mind of their own and they are very much into themselves. A cat can be just as much fun in the house as out. One thing though, don't ever declaw them. That would be cruel.
Sheila

Quote from: Sheila on April 03, 2008, 01:38:42 PM
One thing though, don't ever declaw them. That would be cruel.
Sheila

I think this is one thing that would really polarise. I think it is cruel too, not that it is a choice in my country as declawing is illegal. This site has some information on declawing :http://www.declawing.com/htmls/declawing.htm.

I wouldn't have it done, but I want to ask; what makes declawing a cruelty?

Quote from: Rebis on April 03, 2008, 03:08:29 PM

I wouldn't have it done, but I want to ask; what makes declawing a cruelty?

because it makes your fingers look kinda weird. 

Quote from: ell on April 03, 2008, 03:21:12 PM

Quote from: Rebis on April 03, 2008, 03:08:29 PM

I wouldn't have it done, but I want to ask; what makes declawing a cruelty?

because it makes your fingers look kinda weird. 

I'm going to declaw you pretty soon.

It is kind of like cutting off the tips of your fingers to the knuckle (thats what they do). There are a range of  potential complications of the surgery. It can ruin a cats balance, affect their muscle development, stops them from being able to stretch properly, result in back problems, paw sensitivity, tendon problems...(my link earlier talks more about these).  Essentially you are giving them a disability. It can also result in psychological problems.

Quote from: NickSister on April 03, 2008, 04:56:09 PM
It is kind of like cutting off the tips of your fingers to the knuckle (thats what they do). There are a range of  potential complications of the surgery. It can ruin a cats balance, affect their muscle development, stops them from being able to stretch properly, result in back problems, paw sensitivity, tendon problems...(my link earlier talks more about these).  Essentially you are giving them a disability. It can also result in psychological problems.

well that's just damned disgusting.

There are times it would be nice to de-tooth our cats. They chew holes in the complex-bought and hung blinds!!

Of course, that would be even more disgusting. So, before we move we'll just buy new blinds and leave them.

N~

If you declaw a cat, you will leave it defenseless. The cat won't be able to climb a tree or even defend itself against other animalsl. If it happens to become an outside cat, it won't be able to catch it own food or prevent others from takeing it from them. People think that they will get this cute little kitty and keep it inside. So, by advice from some idiot, they get it declawed and then the cute little kitty is a full grown cat that just sits around the house and so they get tired of it and either kick it out or send it to the humane society and they send it out to some innocent person and that person lets it outside and it runs a way. I have seen many scenarios on this subject. I volunteer at our humane center.
Sheila

Okay.  I'm just going to come out and say it - some of you people know too much about cats.

Well many declawed cats can still climb trees since they leave the claws on the back feet.  But I still hate the idea.  I have to admit, though, that the scratches I have on my body from cat claws do sometimes make me want to rethink all of it.  I have a Bengal cat, which is part Asian Snow Leopard.  He is the sweetest kitty imaginable.  But he does need to have his running and climbing space, and hates to be cooped up all day.  He is neutered and loves to climb in our trees.  He keeps losing collars that way, though.  Afterward, you can usually find him coiled around one of our feet in bed.  While it might not be accurate to say that I am an animal in bed, I do usually have one to snuggle with.  My other kitty would be very content to stay inside all of the time.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

Its just gone 8am.....I got up, three cats on my bed.

Went downstairs, filled the food bowls, opened the back door and let them out in the garden.

Got a cup of tea and some breakfast, went back to bed.

Its 8.15am and I now have 3 cats curled up sleeping on the bed.

Perhaps I should let my cats vote in the poll.

Buffy (and the cats Buffy, Aaron and Willow)

Quote from: Rebis on April 03, 2008, 03:28:34 PM

Quote from: ell on April 03, 2008, 03:21:12 PM
because it makes your fingers look kinda weird. 

I'm going to declaw you pretty soon.

Ahem.

My cats could still climb trees, though perhaps they were not as adapted to getting down them, but they (somewhere around 8 in my life, four pairs) never got beat up and they roamed in a rural and suburban areas.  Declawed cats are a lot easier to move with, and I understand that a huge reason for people giving up their pets is that they had to move to a place where they could not keep them in their new place.

Quote from: Lisbeth on April 04, 2008, 09:52:52 AM

Quote from: Rebis on April 03, 2008, 03:28:34 PM

Quote from: ell on April 03, 2008, 03:21:12 PM
because it makes your fingers look kinda weird. 

I'm going to declaw you pretty soon.

Ahem.

Uh oh.  I don't think Lisbeth wants me to declaw Ell.   Maybe I'll just tie her outside for a while.  I've gotta do something.  Ell is entirely uncontrollable.


Anybody looking for a new pet?   :laugh:

Quote from: Rebis on April 04, 2008, 11:50:14 AM

Quote from: Lisbeth on April 04, 2008, 09:52:52 AM

Quote from: Rebis on April 03, 2008, 03:28:34 PM

Quote from: ell on April 03, 2008, 03:21:12 PM
because it makes your fingers look kinda weird. 

I'm going to declaw you pretty soon.

Ahem.

Uh oh.  I don't think Lisbeth wants me to declaw Ell.   Maybe I'll just tie her outside for a while.  I've gotta do something.  Ell is entirely uncontrollable.

Anybody looking for a new pet?   :laugh:

You can take your hands off of my property.  If anyone is going to declaw her, it will be me.   :eusa_naughty:

Quote from: Lisbeth on April 04, 2008, 03:09:00 PM

Quote from: Rebis on April 04, 2008, 11:50:14 AM

Quote from: Lisbeth on April 04, 2008, 09:52:52 AM

Quote from: Rebis on April 03, 2008, 03:28:34 PM

Quote from: ell on April 03, 2008, 03:21:12 PM
because it makes your fingers look kinda weird. 

I'm going to declaw you pretty soon.

Ahem.

Uh oh.  I don't think Lisbeth wants me to declaw Ell.   Maybe I'll just tie her outside for a while.  I've gotta do something.  Ell is entirely uncontrollable.

Anybody looking for a new pet?   :laugh:

You can take your hands off of my property.  If anyone is going to declaw her, it will be me.   :eusa_naughty:

uh oh, again.  Okay. She's yours.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize.

At least I don't have to worry about my furniture anymore.  heh heh

Quote from: Rebis on April 04, 2008, 04:03:52 PM
uh oh, again.  Okay. She's yours.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize.

At least I don't have to worry about my furniture anymore.  heh heh

That's better.

C'on, Ell.  I got you a new scratching post.

Quote from: Lisbeth on April 04, 2008, 04:37:13 PM

Quote from: Rebis on April 04, 2008, 04:03:52 PM
uh oh, again.  Okay. She's yours.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize.

At least I don't have to worry about my furniture anymore.  heh heh

That's better.

C'on, Ell.  I got you a new scratching post.

meow?

I see no problem with a cat living its life indoors, especially as it is much safer staying inside. Also, I feel that if a cat never goes outside then it really has no concept of "outside" and so will not really miss it or long for being outside. That being said, a cat which has lived outside for some time may be somewhat unhappy if confined to a small apartment, but then you have to weigh the happiness it might have being outside sometimes with the risk of it being hurt or killed in its outdoor environment...

I have two cats, I let one out and keep the other one in. It has to do with their ages and personalities and my gut feelings about their risk taking behavior and chances for survival. I may let the younger one out at some point depending on my feelings at the time.

I see no problem with a cat living indoors if it wants to.

Put another way, is it fair for cats to keep their owners indoors all their lives?
You have to be aware, my dears, that the cat owns you, or at least thinks it does.
Make no mistake, you are only there to feed it and provide it with comfortable accommodation.
And if the cat dislikes living indoors, or hates living with you, it will find a way to escape.
They are very intelligent and resourceful.
My personal view - I would never try to keep a cat imprisoned against its will.

Outdoor cats are at a higher risk of getting FIV and feline leukemia. It is also hard to make a outdoor cat and indoor cat they will generally complain alot. I don't think it would be good idea let indoor cat roam around outside. I usually have cats in the house except for the strays that show up.

Anna

Personally, I prefer to keep our cat indoors permanently. The last time she got out, she came back in infested with fleas, which are horrible in FL. It took 3 months to get them under control. She isn't neutered, and I don't want kittens. She wants out, especially when she is in heat, but there are too many risks, feline leukemia, rabies, ticks, dogs, bigger warlike cats, you name it. I have seen indoor cats live 20+ years very happily. My outdoor or outdoor/indoor cats lived less than half that long, and I usually never knew what became of them.

Yes for indoors....too many nasty risks to keep a cat ouside permanently.

gina

Ever had that indoor cat shoot out from under the sofa and through the door when it's barely open?  Cats choose where they want to live, indoors or out and most of them, if they want out, they WILL get out.  The two that I had for many years, both toms, were content to be wherever the food and water was.  Besides, see my signature below.  You do not have a cat as a pet.  A cat has you as staff.

Beverly