I posted in another topic today that I hate the term "Transsexual". Mostly because of how
the media has portrayed us in the past. I feel the general public perceives us as pathetic,
barely passable (if at all) losers. From what I've seen that is rarely the case.
If as a group we dislike the term and as a community, (probably one of the biggest on the web that
I'm aware of), can't we come to some consensus on what we would prefer to be called, what
our surgery to correct our problem is and start a movement to make the terms universally
accepted by those like us, physicians and the general public?
I have no clue at this point what the term should be but as long as it does not include "trans" and "sex" I'm OK
with it :)
Or do we even need to? Or will it make a difference? I see so many other groups that have done
this and I think it works to some extent.
OMG... I'm already turning into an activist and I'm just starting, what was I saying about going stealth
the other day? :)
Amanda
I hate that label as well. Although it is pretty accurate for us, its used by ->-bleeped-<-s and chix with dix all over the web. ->-bleeped-<-s are everywhere and people seem to associate transsexual with sex and girls with a "surprise"
So I agree we should let that name go and come up with a more modern less sexual type of label. I'll use Lori and you can use Amanda??
How's that sound.
That sounds great... but the media still needs something to label us as :)
Honestly, I don't think better terminology will help much at all.
It's not the term, it's what it means. We can chase around sensitive terminology (maybe "colored" isn't so good -- how about "Negro" -- no, "black" -- no, "Harry Benjamin Syndrome"). Once people figure out it means "those people who ain't like us" it becomes disparaging. "Retarded" was originally intended to be sensitive.
But that's not my problem with terminology. That will change as the ... uh ... nongeneric among the world become more accepted. My problem with terminology is that it tends to act as an ADC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog-to-digital_converter). Sorry, I'm analog, not binary, and I intend to remain that way. So I prefer terms that allow breadth. Trans is fine by me. Nicely descriptive. It implies motion, action, fluidity. The "sexual" part is not so brilliant. Well, we need words.
Now there are some, shall we say, incongruently-born people who are
very binary. Oh, well. I don't get it, but hey, go nuts. I guess I'll just never understand straight queer people, you know, log cabin republicans and ... uh ... the Tribe of Benjamin? ... and so forth. Just keep you boxes and your digitizers away from me, please.
Posted on: April 02, 2008, 04:38:52 PM
Quote from: Lori on April 02, 2008, 04:23:32 PM
So I agree we should let that name go and come up with a more modern less sexual type of label. I'll use Lori and you can use Amanda??
Lori's cool, but may I suggest "Betty" instead?
I can call you "Betty",
and Betty, if you call me,
you can call me "Alyssa". :P
Person: What's your name then?
Me: Jörgen.
Person: That's a boy's name.
Me: No ->-bleeped-<- Sherlock.
Don't have to explain anything else. Make them form their own conclusion and stay silent, be patient. If he/she wants to call me Trans, they can. If he/ she wants to call me mentally ill, pathetic, they can.
The only minus I've found is that more often than not people refuse to call me Jörgen and use my birth name. Then I tell them not to talk to me again and if need be, address me: It. Don't know, it works for me.
And Media can do whatever they want, they don't differ from anyone else, if people are shallow and don't want to accept me, they're not worth my time, stress, tears anyway.
Then again, I've only just begun my "journey" so... This might be a problem later on?
Or they could call us Males who Were born into Female bodies, vice versa for Females who were born into Male bodies. It's longer but it sounds "sweeter". Lol.
I suck at answering the Original questions, don't I? I do find a lot of other answers talking to myself though so thank you, 'cause ordinaraly I wouldn't think about this.
Below post- Swap the "D" for "R"- Realization?
Ah! the meat and potatoes of it all.
I think that the crux of some of the problems we encounter is the very way the term "Transsexual" is made up; Basically the words "Trans" and "Sex".
Essentially we are men or women (The gender we identify as) who have been diagnosed with a medical condition known as (At the present time) as GID (We can define what the 'D' should stand for later).
It strikes me that a woman who has been diagnosed with breast cancer is still a woman, a woman who has breast cancer. Like wise a man who has been diagnosed with testicular cancer is still a man. Therefore I submit that we are simply men and/or women who have been diagnosed with GID. So why can't we be men and/or women who have a treatable medical condition.
Steph
This is what I said on another thread:
Quote from: Tink on March 01, 2008, 04:00:43 PM
Hmmm....I think labeling belongs to each individual and even though some people are very happy with the prefix TRANS, I am NOT anymore. Now with this statement I am not demeaning anyone who identifies as "trans", but in my case, the term "trans" is beginning to sound rather offensive really; in other words, it is like when you hear your "previous name" after so many years into transition. I am a woman; I have always been a woman, and I WANT to be labeled as such.
tink :icon_chick:
Sorry but I feel that the use of the pre-fix
trans sounds very offensive when it is used in conjunction with me as well. Having born transsexual is just a birth defect which I have already corrected. My medical condition doesn't/has never define(d) who I am. Other terms? I will go with woman (for me at least). If others embrace the term
transsexual or
transgender, I'm perfectly OK with that too, just don't use it when referring to my person. Thank you very much!
tink :icon_chick:
Unfortunately, I think that the general public will see what they want to regardless of whatever terms we use... trans/sex... trans/gender... George... Mabel... none of the above... Most people can't get past the organs to see the beautiful diversity of actual genders that exist.
Z
I've always hated the words ->-bleeped-<-, transsexual, and all the others when applied to myself. I want to think of myself as normal. These words make it sound like there is something wrong with me.
Abortion rights activists came up with "pro choice". Now, how is that for putting a positive spin on things? Why can't we do the same?
Does it even have to be a real word? Does it have to have a basis in other language like Latin ..... even?
How bout something like:
crea
leelon
temaflon
or.... smappa?
Any of those would work ;)
cindi
Quote from: Cindi Jones on April 02, 2008, 10:11:33 PM
Abortion rights activists came up with "pro choice". Now, how is that for putting a positive spin on things? Why can't we do the same?
We could be "pro-gender" ;)
Z
Quote from: Tink on April 02, 2008, 08:01:39 PM
This is what I said on another thread:
Quote from: Tink on March 01, 2008, 04:00:43 PM
Hmmm....I think labeling belongs to each individual and even though some people are very happy with the prefix TRANS, I am NOT anymore. Now with this statement I am not demeaning anyone who identifies as "trans", but in my case, the term "trans" is beginning to sound rather offensive really; in other words, it is like when you hear your "previous name" after so many years into transition. I am a woman; I have always been a woman, and I WANT to be labeled as such.
tink :icon_chick:
Sorry but I feel that the use of the pre-fix trans sounds very offensive when it is used in conjunction with me as well. Having born transsexual is just a birth defect which I have already corrected. My medical condition doesn't/has never define(d) who I am. Other terms? I will go with woman (for me at least). If others embrace the term transsexual or transgender, I'm perfectly OK with that too, just don't use it when referring to my person. Thank you very much!
tink :icon_chick:
So, what you are saying is we are only transsexual for a period of time. Once our transition is complete (and maybe we are stealth), the label is removed and we are just a woman. Or to put it another way, we are only "Trans" for the period of time during the change and when we are no longer changing we are just women (or men for a FTM). Cool.... I like that concept :)
I guess my thoughts were when I posted the initial message was that I'll never pass(short sighted maybe) and I'll be stuck
forever with being called a transsexual.
like everyone else i hate trans anything that refers to people. i like the idea that once transition is over we are men or women period, and it should not have to include gender surgery as most ftm don't find it satisfactory anyway. everything has to work both ways.
also like you, Amanda, i always thought i would never pass either. i have my own long naturally blonde hair now, barely wear any makeup(i usually don't) i don't have to shave my face worth anything, i even dress male, carry a purse and people still see female and address me as such. i also like to tell everyone i haven't had a days worth of hrt either, i don't think i really need it other than for a set of my own breasts.
and Amanda, all i see in your picture is a pretty blonde woman. you need worry about nothing.
Best Wishes,
Mickie
Quote from: Lori on April 02, 2008, 04:23:32 PM
I hate that label as well. Although it is pretty accurate for us, its used by ->-bleeped-<-s and chix with dix all over the web. ->-bleeped-<-s are everywhere and people seem to associate transsexual with sex and girls with a "surprise"
So I agree we should let that name go and come up with a more modern less sexual type of label. I'll use Lori and you can use Amanda??
How's that sound.
That's good but some labels are worse like 'Transwoman' which sounds far more freaky and like an alien....in fact I don't like anything with 'trans' in it.....
Quote from: Alyssa M. on April 02, 2008, 04:43:13 PM
Lori's cool, but may I suggest "Betty" instead?
I can call you "Betty",
and Betty, if you call me,
you can call me "Alyssa". :P
lol.
I have spent many a waking night tossing this around in my head. I don't want to be a transsexual. The only way to not be one is to go stealth and not tell anybody. If this is about finding a nicer word, Transwoman is not as offensive or demeaning to me as transsexual. At least there is somewhat a recognition of woman in there.
Still, "Trans" is short for so many hate filled speeches. Man or Woman would be the fairest. After all a transsexual is about becoming the other gender and blending in.
Quote
lalso like you, Amanda, i always thought i would never pass either. i have my own long naturally blonde hair now, barely wear any makeup(i usually don't) i don't have to shave my face worth anything, i even dress male, carry a purse and people still see female and address me as such.
That sounds awesome... I'd like to be a member of that club someday, but I think I need makeup to get to 50/50... LOL :)
Quote
i also like to tell everyone i haven't had a days worth of hrt either, i don't think i really need it other than for a set of my own breasts.
You are very lucky and no you don't need it, you look great! I've always thought looking at your avatar you must be very far along on HRT. That's amazing really. Dumb me... Micki let me know that's not her :)
Quote
and Amanda, all i see in your picture is a pretty blonde woman. you need worry about nothing.
Thank you Mickie... everyone here has been so kind to me and done wonders for my self confidence. I like the
avatar that I have up now because it reflects what I feel inside. Happy is probably an understating it, but i have
no better word right now. :)
Amanda
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 02, 2008, 04:11:12 PM
I have no clue at this point what the term should be but as long as it does not include "trans" and "sex" I'm OK with it :)
If you take the "trans" and the "sex" out of "transsexual," that just leaves "ual." And
you-all are the solution to the problem.
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 03, 2008, 09:20:48 AMSo, what you are saying is we are only transsexual for a period of time. Once our transition is complete (and maybe we are stealth), the label is removed and we are just a woman. Or to put it another way, we are only "Trans" for the period of time during the change and when we are no longer changing we are just women (or men for a FTM). Cool.... I like that concept :)
Yes. Transition is a transitory state.
The word change is not what makes people react.
Misogyny makes them react and an atavistic fear makes them react. A change of nomenclature is not likely to change that. Getting to know a few of us might, that's why the most vigorus haters are also those who have never knowing met any of us.
N~
I really don't like labels either. My name is Sheila and that is what I go by. My first name is Gari but I like Sheila better and so do others. I was a transexual but I got it fixed and now I'm a normal woman. Well, maybe not normal but a regular woman. I think that my logic is why we have a hard time getting ordinances and protections for ourselve. Once we have been cured of the GID "desease", then we want to just blend in as much as possible. To live our lives in peace, like it should have been.
Sheila
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 02, 2008, 04:33:21 PM
That sounds great... but the media still needs something to label us as :)
Why?
Maybe that's the real problem. Why do they need to label ME into an US?
I'm not "a..." anything. I'm just Kate.
The very fact they need a label just shows that they think of people who change their sex as being freakish, odd, not normal... an aberration in need of watching. They label "us" so they can keep an eye on "us" and not let "us" blend in as the individuals we are.
I vote to ban the label altogether ;)
~Kate~
I don't like the stereotyping of what transsexual is supposed to be......not everyone who is transsexual falls into that stereotype and they lucky one's are smart and stay steath. There is a stigma attached to it far more than someone who may be gay.
Quote from: Kate on April 03, 2008, 01:59:02 PM
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 02, 2008, 04:33:21 PM
That sounds great... but the media still needs something to label us as :)
Why?
Maybe that's the real problem. Why do they need to label ME into an US?
I'm not "a..." anything. I'm just Kate.
The very fact they need a label just shows that they think of people who change their sex as being freakish, odd, not normal... an aberration in need of watching. They label "us" so they can keep an eye on "us" and not let "us" blend in as the individuals we are.
I vote to ban the label altogether ;)
~Kate~
I know what
you would like to be called and I'd like to be called that too. A women. But that is not what happens.
I understand what you're saying(and agree completely) but they(media, general public, etc) are going to refer to those of us
as a groupas X until we have completed our transition and are stealth (if that is what we choose). After transition you are Kate
a women. But
during transition when we are being read, etc, and maybe for some of us that are never able to pass as female,or choose to be non-stealth is a different story, they
WILL label and stereotype us. You are an X, whether that is
Transsexual, Transgender, ->-bleeped-<-, etc. And after you are successfully living as a female you will need to tell people that need
to know (doctors) in a way that is not as distasteful as the term Transsexual.
Maybe it's just me, but I just think a better and less distasteful term needs to be applied. For one you can be MTF or FTM
so transsexual does not really cover it.
I have not heard anyone say they like the term (maybe one?) so if that's the case lets decide to change it. We as a group
can make that happen. How cool would it be to tell your friends one day in thirty years that you were part of a revolution
that changed what TS's were called. If we as a group don't stand up and do it, no one will and we will be stuck with all the
bad images that the word transsexual brings up. Maybe it's just not that big a deal to people, but to me the word has been so
unfavorably depicted in the past that we as a group will forever be scared with that term until it is changed.
I posted in another topic today about Candice Cayne (http://www.candiscayne.com) she plays Carmelita on
Dirty Sexy Money (tv show for those who don't know) and I think having one of our own is that successful
on prime time TV is HUGE. She advances public awareness that we can pass as women, we can be sexy,
we can be successful by leaps and bounds. If she is here by any chance... you ROCK Candice :) She is a
transsexual, but I would only refer to her as that to make my point. She is a woman. Period. But the media
has to label her something... because she is non-stealth. She does not deserve to be labeled that and
neither do any of us.
This is no different than Negros, RedFaces, ->-bleeped-<-s and any number of other distasteful terms that have been applied
to groups of people in the past.
I've struggled my whole life with GID and for the past ten years or so when I really knew deep down inside that
I would have to face it at some point, one thing that was holding me back, was not wanting to be labeled TS, because
of the stigma and baggage that comes with that label. Maybe we can't fix things for ourselves, but how about giving
back and making it just a little bit easier for the ones that follow us?
LOL... and now I just have to laugh at myself... a few days ago I wanted to silently slip away into female-dom and now I feel
like I'm getting so worked up over what I DON'T want and refuse to call myself.
Amanda
Posted on: April 03, 2008, 04:49:59 PM
Quote from: Berliegh on April 03, 2008, 02:19:04 PM
There is a stigma attached to it far more than someone who may be gay.
That is SO true Berliegh,
SO TRUE. You can be gay and successful these days.... but if your TS you're
a barely passable, mentally ill, loser... according to the media.
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 03, 2008, 09:20:48 AM
Quote from: Tink on April 02, 2008, 08:01:39 PM
This is what I said on another thread:
Quote from: Tink on March 01, 2008, 04:00:43 PM
Hmmm....I think labeling belongs to each individual and even though some people are very happy with the prefix TRANS, I am NOT anymore. Now with this statement I am not demeaning anyone who identifies as "trans", but in my case, the term "trans" is beginning to sound rather offensive really; in other words, it is like when you hear your "previous name" after so many years into transition. I am a woman; I have always been a woman, and I WANT to be labeled as such.
tink :icon_chick:
Sorry but I feel that the use of the pre-fix trans sounds very offensive when it is used in conjunction with me as well. Having born transsexual is just a birth defect which I have already corrected. My medical condition doesn't/has never define(d) who I am. Other terms? I will go with woman (for me at least). If others embrace the term transsexual or transgender, I'm perfectly OK with that too, just don't use it when referring to my person. Thank you very much!
tink :icon_chick:
So, what you are saying is we are only transsexual for a period of time. Once our transition is complete (and maybe we are stealth), the label is removed and we are just a woman. Or to put it another way, we are only "Trans" for the period of time during the change and when we are no longer changing we are just women (or men for a FTM). Cool.... I like that concept :)
There are people out there who don't like the
trans prefix at all. It doesn't really matter if they are pre-HRT, pre-op, currently in transition or post-op; they just don't like it. But yes, essentially,
trans indicates a phase in which we are supposed to be matching our bodies with our minds/souls. Once that goal has been reached, there's nothing
trans about us. But again, and I feel the need to emphasize this, these are just my personal views. ;)
tink :icon_chick:
Yes, Amanda, what Tink said. Transsexing is a process with a beginning, middle and end. It doesn't last forever, just until the transitioner gets to where he or she needs to be for congruence.
And you may find that for you it will end at some point during hrt, or after you start living your gender-identity full time or after SRS or at some point after that. But I think you will find that end it does. At that point to be thought of as 'transsexual' seems no longer pertinent to one's life.
Nichole
"Can we change public perception by using something besides Transsexual?"
In a word: No. Simply because the public doesn't understand the original term to begin with. Changing the label will only result in more confusion.
"He/She's a (insert label here)"
"Oh... What's that?"
"Transsexual."
"Oh...... What's that?"
Cue ill informed vague explanation.
The only way we can change the public's perception is to better inform them.
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 03, 2008, 04:53:19 PM
After transition you are Kate a women. But during transition when we are being read, etc, and maybe for some of us that are never able to pass as female, or choose to be non-stealth is a different story, they WILL label and stereotype us. You are an X, whether that is Transsexual, Transgender, ->-bleeped-<-, etc.
Never happened to me. I know we read it all over the web and on the forum, but... it just never happened to me during my transition. I was never trans-anything to anyone. They never used labels, nor did I. Not even that I
"am a woman." I was [male name] who was changing to be "Kate" for awhile, then Kate who used to be [male name], then eventually just Kate. Not an IT, not a label, not an "us."
By doing that, I found that I could slip under the radar of people who would normally dissapprove of you for being
"a [insert label]."And the media? Well, why would they pay any attention to 'lol 'ol me? ;)
QuoteAnd after you are successfully living as a female you will need to tell people that need to know (doctors) in a way that is not as distasteful as the term Transsexual.
I just told them that I'm changing my sex. That's it. No label of what I "am." I just described what I'm doing.
"Oh doc, I should probably tell you that I'm changing my sex and going by the name Kate now." Worked like a charm. No agenda, no politics, no stereotypes to argue.
I'm not saying that's right for everyone, but it worked well for me ;)
Quotebut if your TS you're a barely passable, mentally ill, loser... according to the media.
Are you sure? The Religious Right certainly has a field day with it all, but think about Oprah, Dateline NBC, CNN specials, various MS-NBC documentaries, etc., most of which have generally been fairly accurate and impartial presentations of the process.
Honestly, I think when we look
Out There into the world, we so often end up painting the world with our own fears and doubts, seeing only those things which validate our worries.
The world doesn't hate us. We hate ourselves, and blame the world for it, IMHO.
~Kate~
Yes, I agree,
We need to use somthing other than 'trans' or 'sex' in our terms.
Specifically 'sex'.
That's a big problem.
What about Genderqueer?
Has problems with "queer" but not trans or sex.
Hmm I will give this some thought...
*brain ticking*
What did the Navajo call us?
Nadle?
That sounds like a good name to me.
Someone who exhibits the behavior of another sex or has ambiguous genitalia
was called that in the Navajo language.
Lakota called us winkte.
The Mojave had four distinct sexes:
Male, Female, Alyha (mtf's), and Hwame (ftm's)
I think those would work for me.
They got it right.
There's not just one category.
I like the sound of Alyha.
Marriages including Alyha were considered highly regarded.
Any of those would work for me.
-Sara
My goodness. Do people really think that prejudice, ignorance and virulent fear can be changed by re-naming anything? Who has the best job? A janitor or a sanitary engineer?
A name change without any substantial education will change nothing about cissexuals' responses and beliefs about us.
N~
Of course not.
But labels can be surprisingly helpful.
Like a name change.
Useful.
-Sara
I don't like the term transsexual, sounds too clinical, like using homosexual as opposed to gay. I don't mind transgender, it somewhat describes the incongruence I feel w/ my body. Androgyne is better for me. Ultimately they're just words, all of which are insufficient to truly describe my life when boiled down to a simple label. People who are prejudiced against us aren't going to understand no matter what terms we use. I like some of the native American terms, however I'm not of that culture and would feel like I was appropriating them.
Z
Changing a name is like changing a brand.
Companies re-brand their products to emphasize change.
It can be very helpful.
Our brand, so to speak, has some connotations associated with it that might be nice to ditch.
A re-branding might be helpful for that.
-Sara
Quote from: Sarah on April 03, 2008, 08:32:45 PM
Changing a name is like changing a brand.
Companies re-brand their products to emphasize change.
It can be very helpful
I'm trans-cendent tm
Actually, it would be nice to have a term more like gay as opposed to homosexual.
Z
Yes, a brand-name change!!! That is just ridiculous enough to be totally an American response to a problem: change the name of it. Let's go back to my previous post.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,31243.msg219479.html#msg219479
and pay attention to the LAST sentence.
Quote from: Zythyra on April 03, 2008, 08:36:04 PM
Quote from: Sarah on April 03, 2008, 08:32:45 PM
Changing a name is like changing a brand.
Companies re-brand their products to emphasize change.
It can be very helpful
I'm trans-cendent tm
Actually, it would be nice to have a term more like gay as opposed to homosexual.
Z
:laugh:
I'm a Sara™
Lol
You need to buy one!
I come with many accessories!
Lolz!
-Sara
Quote from: Sarah on April 03, 2008, 09:07:03 PM
:laugh:
I'm a Sara™
Lol
You need to buy one!
I come with many accessories!
How did you get the TM logo Sara? I wanted to use one but didn't know the key combination :(
What's the "buy it now" price? LOL :laugh:
Zythyra TM
Quote from: Zythyra on April 03, 2008, 09:15:29 PM
Quote from: Sarah on April 03, 2008, 09:07:03 PM
:laugh:
I'm a Sara™
Lol
You need to buy one!
I come with many accessories!
How did you get the TM logo Sara? I wanted to use one but didn't know the key combination :(
What's the "buy it now" price? LOL :laugh:
Zythyra TM
I googled "tm symbol" and got it.
there is a command keyboard combo to get it but I don't know where it is.
You can use your character map in windows or the one in mac or linux to cut and paste it too.
That's what I did, cut and paste.
And it'll cost you 300 nibbles!
And a collar!
*shudders* yarr!
-Sara
Posted on: April 03, 2008, 08:19:48 PM
And to Nichole:
Uhh no, I kinda disagree.
Think about what would happen if Coca Cola renamed themselves
Boknor Cola?
They would loose sales.
Words have an effect on a persons perception.
the word sex for instance brings a lot of connotations to peoples minds that the word "apple"
Does not.
We associate things based on labels.
It's why they're so important.
If aesthetics and labels weren't important, I would not have a field of study.
Advertising is all about perception.
Is that deodorant really going to make you hot or sexy?
Is that vodka?
No, but commercials and labels make people think they do.
Many people started smoking because they thought it was cool.
Not because it is cool, but because they believed it to be.
Names are important.
You wouldn't name you kid Adolf
;),
-Sara
Sara, I like the Mojavean terms. It got me thinking: Homosexual women get a Mediterranean island!!! How cool is that? Maybe it doesn't do a damn thing to diminish prejudice, but it's still kind of nice. So from now on, I'd like to be refered to as an Antiguan. :D