I have to go in for a Pap Smear tomorrow.
Not only am I scared because I have never done it, before but it's just not something that's natural to me. I'm not scared of the pain, just the embarrassment.
I have to do it because I'm on these pills that stop your period for months at a time (REALLY good stuff) and she won't prescribe them again until I do it.
A little encouragement?
Ok Susans cheerleaders, 1, 2, 3- You can do it brady, you can do it brady. Ok joking aside you will survive this as much as it sucks. Keep thinking of your goal.
->-bleeped-<-boy
1,2,3.. no no Im joking.. If you want to carry on with the pill you will have to have it.. its only to be on the safe side after all! However it probably does suck and I can only imagine how embarrassing it must really be!
I will have to do that soon!! Never noooooo!!!
It'll be over with fast and the doctor will be really professional about it. And eyes on the prize - you'll get to keep taking the pill.
Dennis
Umm... not to scare you but to prepare you. It hurts. It hurts when they pry it open with that cold metal contraption and something else that happens up there hurts.
I've never experienced any pain during a pap. Haven't heard any of my friends complain about pain, either. But as far as embarrassment goes: Dennis is right, the doc has his eye on the prize. And also, the doc has seen a million of "them." (Doing a pap is as routine to the doc as it is for you to serve coffee at Starbucks.) Also, the pap takes such little time...you'll be surprised when the doc says it's done already!
How's that for a pap talk.... er, I mean pep talk.
it'll go by really fast and hopefully you won't have to do it again for a long time.
good luck, Brady.
I second Benjamin. Never had any pain. Discomfort, yes, but not pain. Close your eyes and pretend you're somewhere else (or, close your eyes and think of England).
Dennis
Quote from: Dennis on April 09, 2008, 11:45:14 AM(or, close your eyes and think of England).
Dennis
ROLLING Den.
Posted on: April 09, 2008, 12:47:29 PM
Maybe I'm alone in the pain part, then.
Nero, you aren't. It hurt me but thats because I had problems and I was so uncomfortable that I tensed up. Now you want pain, try a uterine biopsy plus tension plus about 45 minutes with two people down there. By the end of it I was totally disassociated and stoned and couldn't walk but it was the last piece of the puzzle to get my hysto covered under insurance and I wanted that prize. Well that and a good stiff drink. Pap smear I agree with Dennis, relax, dissociate and think of the queen of England or at least thats what I was told. I am not sure why anyone would want to think of the queen of england during a pap smear.
Quote from: Nero on April 09, 2008, 11:49:16 AM
Maybe I'm alone in the pain part, then.
Nero, as ->-bleeped-<-boy touched upon: Do you think you might be tensing up during the test? Sorry it's painful for you. :( That sucks.
I'll be starting T next month. Not sure how thrilled I'll be about paps once I have a beard and a deep voice, etc.! How do you guys on T feel about paps? Do you go to an OB-GYN still? I think I'll have my primary care doctor do my paps after I'm on T. Would feel too weird sitting in an OB-BYN waiting room.
Quote from: Nero on April 09, 2008, 10:10:28 AM
Umm... not to scare you but to prepare you. It hurts.
They make different sized speculums. If you're not, er, very experienced, let your doctor know and she can use a smaller one. She may very well ask, anyway. A lot of doctors will also make an effort to warm it up a bit before sticking it in. You might ask her if she plans to do that.
I was scared the first time, too, and was surprised to find it really wasn't that bad.
Quote from: Jamie-o on April 09, 2008, 04:57:19 PM
Quote from: Nero on April 09, 2008, 10:10:28 AM
Umm... not to scare you but to prepare you. It hurts.
They make different sized speculums. If you're not, er, very experienced, let your doctor know and she can use a smaller one. She may very well ask, anyway. A lot of doctors will also make an effort to warm it up a bit before sticking it in. You might ask her if she plans to do that.
I was scared the first time, too, and was surprised to find it really wasn't that bad.
Thanks. I'm actually pretty experienced, just a bit tight.
Quote from: Nero on April 09, 2008, 05:22:30 PM
Quote from: Jamie-o on April 09, 2008, 04:57:19 PM
Quote from: Nero on April 09, 2008, 10:10:28 AM
Umm... not to scare you but to prepare you. It hurts.
They make different sized speculums. If you're not, er, very experienced, let your doctor know and she can use a smaller one. She may very well ask, anyway. A lot of doctors will also make an effort to warm it up a bit before sticking it in. You might ask her if she plans to do that.
I was scared the first time, too, and was surprised to find it really wasn't that bad.
Thanks. I'm actually pretty experienced, just a bit tight.
I'm so glad that my FEMALE doctor is just a general physician who happens to do gynecology as well. As for different sizes for "the experienced" I was about to say something that might be considered offensive. Let's just say I have no experience in that area...I'm gay, remember? :laugh:
Quote from: Brady on April 09, 2008, 06:11:00 PM
As for different sizes for "the experienced" I was about to say something that might be considered offensive. Let's just say I have no experience in that area...I'm gay, remember? :laugh:
Rolling. :laugh:
Hahahaha I tried to state what I'm trying to get across in the cleanest, most G rated way possible...
K - just posted a topic in Sexuality: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,31798.new.html#new
Have at it.
Nero's a total voyeur.
Quote from: Benjamin on April 09, 2008, 03:45:54 PM
Quote from: Nero on April 09, 2008, 11:49:16 AM
Maybe I'm alone in the pain part, then.
Nero, as ->-bleeped-<-boy touched upon: Do you think you might be tensing up during the test? Sorry it's painful for you. :( That sucks.
I'll be starting T next month. Not sure how thrilled I'll be about paps once I have a beard and a deep voice, etc.! How do you guys on T feel about paps? Do you go to an OB-GYN still? I think I'll have my primary care doctor do my paps after I'm on T. Would feel too weird sitting in an OB-BYN waiting room.
I just go to my doctor. Last time, she walked in and said "this feels weird. I'm sure it does for you too." Which broke the ice a bit.
Dennis
You're one brave soul Brady! A little off topic, but ahhhh I've never had a pap? I'm 25 in 3 weeks, and was told at my last doc visit about a month ago (right before I started T), that being I hadn't ever had intercourse with a man, I didn't need one?
I don't think that's correct, Joey. The female parts can get lots of probs that have nothing to do sex.
But, I'm no doctor.
Don't sweat the pap. It's a quick process and tends to be a lot worse (in our heads) than it actually is. I was a complete virgin when I had my first one done and the doc was very quick and nonchalant about it all. There was some discomfort and slight pain (hymen intact after all), but it was over quickly. Just make sure your doctor has a gentle hand. My last pap I had (new doc wanted to 'check' everything before continuing my T prescription) was painful because the doctor wasn't gentle about it (perhaps because I'm a passable male and she didn't meet me prior to my transition).
Just make sure you emphasize that you've never had anything in your va-jay-jay and you're concerned about pain or discomfort.
Nothin to be embarrassed about...it's just a check up to make sure you're healthy. And once you get your hysto you won't ever have to do it again. =D
I'm feeling much better about it. Still nervous, but I think the fact that it's a girl will make it more likely that she will be gentle, don't you think?
Quote from: Nero on April 09, 2008, 05:22:30 PM
Quote from: Jamie-o on April 09, 2008, 04:57:19 PM
Quote from: Nero on April 09, 2008, 10:10:28 AM
Umm... not to scare you but to prepare you. It hurts.
They make different sized speculums. If you're not, er, very experienced, let your doctor know and she can use a smaller one. She may very well ask, anyway. A lot of doctors will also make an effort to warm it up a bit before sticking it in. You might ask her if she plans to do that.
I was scared the first time, too, and was surprised to find it really wasn't that bad.
Thanks. I'm actually pretty experienced, just a bit tight.
I actually intended that advice for Brady, but I was rushing and didn't make that clear. Sorry! Lol :embarrassed:
Quote from: Nero on April 09, 2008, 11:19:25 PM
I don't think that's correct, Joey. The female parts can get lots of probs that have nothing to do sex.
But, I'm no doctor.
This is true.. You should have the test still even if you haven't had sex with a man.. Its just your chances of getting anything are higher when you start sleeping with men.
Quote from: Brady on April 10, 2008, 12:13:36 AM
I'm feeling much better about it. Still nervous, but I think the fact that it's a girl will make it more likely that she will be gentle, don't you think?
Brady - Glad you're feeling better about it. It's a piece of cake, you'll see. My doc and I are both athletes, so we often chat about sports while he's doing his thing down there. (Yeah, that's how casual a pap can become after a while.) I think male and female docs are
equally gentle during a pap.
Posted on: April 10, 2008, 08:35:03 AM
Quote from: Dennis on April 09, 2008, 10:16:42 PM
I just go to my doctor. Last time, she walked in and said "this feels weird. I'm sure it does for you too." Which broke the ice a bit.
Dennis
Glad to hear you say that. Yeah, to acknowledge it out loud breaks the ice more than awkward silence would. My family doctor is open-minded about my transitioning, so I think things will go well with him even though it'll feel weird for both of us, I'm sure. For me, I think the weird part will be him seeing my clitoral enlargement from taking T.
Brady,
Good luck with it. I know how horrible it can be. Due to my current profession I am suppose to have them annually... better believe I hold off until I am forced to get one. If I am lucky, then I have 1 maybe 2 left before retirement.
Most people have no issues, and like was previously mentioned, there are different sizes. No matter how "experienced" you are, the size can greatly vary. I was worried when I talked to one of my docs after mine was done once and she told me that when I get one done to make sure I tell the doctor before hand to use infant size because most will assume an adult size will work no matter who you are or any medical odditys you may have.
I guess I fit under medical odditity because even the infant size causes me pain. 60% of it could be me being tense because I have always seen myself as a straight man and nothing in my eyes should ever go in that area. The doc. also said it's rare to be in my situation as far as the size needed to perform the pap, but even women who have had children can still be in need of that size and having children or intercourse is very painful for people in that situation. It has caused me enough pain once that they could not perform it the normal way and had to just do a vaginal scrapping and the other internal check. My test results still came out the same as a person who would get a normal pap, it's just they could not do a visual in addition to the scraping. (Not many docs will ever admit they can do that, so if you find one... be very happy).
So odds are, you are not going to be the same type of medical odditiy as me, but you can still request the infant size and they can still do a normal pap with it.
I hope everything went well, Brady.
I never had one too. I went one single time to a gynaecologist and after hearing I wasn't using tampons she said, it wasn't neccessary.
HOLY F word.
I am never, EVER doing that again.
She used the smallest speculum and that still hurt like a mother. Also, she shoved her finger up there to check my ovaries. As soon as she started the process, I seriously felt like passing out. Then, when she was done and told me to get dressed then come to her office, I seriously had to sit there and catch my breath for fifteen minutes. I was seriously crying, guys. I felt like a weenie but I don't care. It wasn't really because of the pain, but that felt SO unnatural and so wrong.
I called my boyfriend bawling my eyes out lol it was HORRIBLE. I'm never doing that again.
Brady -
SO SORRY to hear this. (You're not a weenie -- most of us would have been bawling, too!)
I honestly had no idea (before taking part in this discussion) how many people have had bad experiences with PAPs. Guess I've been really lucky. (And naive?) I went through a stretch when I needed to have PAPs every 3 months (for 2 years) due to a high-grade precancerous condition. Never had any pain issues... thankfully. And, knock on wood.
Glad you got it over with, Brady. But, again, so sorry it was such a terrible experience.
- Benjamin
It was hoooooorrid. I just had bubble tea with a friend though. Played some chess and Rock Band and he made me feel much better :)
Glad you're feeling better now. I know the feeling. I have to actually chomp down on a towel or my hand to keep from crying out during it sometimes. It hurts.
I felt like such a baby but I seriously was bawlin' on the way home on the phone with my boyfriend...It took a good couple of hours to get the shock out of me. That was so horrible...
Now, if it were a PROSTATE exam I'm sure I could handle :)
ah, that sucks dude. sorry it was so horrible but i expect to cry too when the inevitable happens. i wish they could knock us out or something...
hopefully you won't have to do it again anytime soon. and if this gets you one step closer i guess it is worth it, right?
I only did it to get the prescription to for pills that stop the monthly visitor lol so I guess its worth it....maybe
Dude, trust me, you wouldn't rather have a prostate exam. I have anal sex and vaginal sex and I don't want a doctor or any strange person sticking their fingers or hands in either or those places. I think it's just not so pleasant to have some stranger sticking their digits inside your body.
I agree with Bas. I've had/have anal and vaginal sex and the discomfort of a pap is because it's a doctor...they're not trying to get you off, they're just doing what they have to, to make sure you're healthy. So yeah, people not trying to give you pleasure is going to be uncomfortable regardless of where they stick their fingers or instruments... Having people who want to give you pleasure and sticking things in you feels a whole lot more enjoyable. XD
most humiliating thing ever, i totally understand - only thing kept me going was that it keeps me safe...
apparently anyone over 21 needs one regardless of uhm having 'done' anything or not...
better safe than sorry though - hope it wasnt too bad for you dude!
This topic is a bit old but i stumbled uppon it and figurred i'd have a go at sharring my knowledge in the area while i'm here.
I finnished a bachelor of science recently (i studied biomedical science: so a fair bit of anatomy, physiology, immunology, cell biology, microbiology... all kinda useful here). I also did a madly excessive amount of reading before i got the vaccine.
There's a fair bit of miss-information out there about who needs a pap, even among doctors. A lot of doctors don't even know that lesbians need pap smears so i doubt their ability to advise transmen unless they work at a gender clinic... and even then i'm not sure.
I think it is theoretically possible for almost any body part to spontaniously turn cancerous if you're unlucky enough, but the vast majority of cervical cancers (what the pap is looking for) are caused by a virus called HPV.
HPV is spread by sexual contact so if you have never had sexual contact with anyone (male or female) under normal circumstances you probably wouldn't need a pap. But transitioning probably isn't really "normal" circumstances.
I know intersex people, and people with hormonal imbalances, tend to be at a much higher risk of developing cancers in their sexual organs. I must admit i don't know if this applies to people who are transitioning under conttrolled circumstances though. I know Candy Darling (an M2F from the 1970ish) died of cancer related to her hormones, but i'll confess a lack of knowledge there. If your doctor thinks you still need a pap even though you are a virgin because you are on T, or on an unusual pill to stop periods, it's probably worth the embarrassmet just in case.
But i imagine that would be very few of you. I think the mechinism of transmission of HPV is a bit unclear. It used to be thought you could only catch it from a man, but they now think it can be transmitted between women. Pap smears are now recomended for lesbians under the same rules as straight women, i.e. after the onset of sexual activity.
If you have never had sex involving vaginal penetration at all, but have had some sexual contact with a man or woman (e.g. anal or clitoral). I don't think even the world experts on the virus could tell you if you were at risk. The risk is probably smaller than that for someone who has engaged in penetrative vaginal sex (be it penis, toys, or fingers), but it is probably still a big enough risk to make pap smears worth while, particularly if you are also stressing your female organs by taking hormones for transition.
As for pain, all i can say is relax. Biting down on a towel and tensing up is probably counter-productive? None of my female friends have told me about anything more than "discomfort" durring a pap. Also, tell the doctor clearly if it hurts, they may be able to do something to prevent it.
My doctor's advice was to have a PAP every year if you are sexually active, and every 3 years if you are not. However, she also said that it's best to have a gynecological exam every year regardless so that the doctor can have a feel around on your ovaries, which, unfortunately, involves feeling around up inside.
hrmmm... if you've never been sexually active i can't think of why you'd need a pap every three years? i think the test is for a quite specific abnormality which usually can only be caused by the virus. If you have something hormonally unusual going on maybe (e.g. transitioning or intersex) it might be usual to have more screening than you would typically. I also can't think why you'd need it less frequently if you had been sexually active before but stopped, the virus has a very long incubation time before causing problems (up to 50 years). But guidelines vary a lot, in Australia it's every two years for all non-virgins (including lesbians). I guess my main point was that you might need them even if you've never had vaginal intercourse.
Hrmmm... might be a good idea to get the vaccine before transition too? If you still have your cervix you can probably get it free in a lot of countries, and there's almost no risk from getting it. It may lower risk of things like throat cancer, and may also protect your partner form catching it. I don't know if they know what body parts can carry it without getting cancer, but women who've never slept with women can catch it, so it must be able to infect things that aren't cervixes? and if you intend to keep your cervix, it won't get you out of pap smears but it lowers the risk of you needing extra ones for high-risk abnormalities like one of the guys was talking about before. Oooh and some versions of the vaccines can prevent genital warts, which could be a good bonus, but i don't think any countries consider genital warts sufficiently dangerous to publicly fun vaccinations against them?
A biomedical science degree gives you a certain mad enthusiasm for vaccines you see...
Hrmmm... i seem to be prattling-on a fair bit, i must be procrastinating about something...
Speaking of the vaccine, anyone know why you can't get it if you're over 26?
Get it at all, or get it for free?
For free, it depends on the country, but unlikely, they are targeting the younger people.
But i know in Australia at least it now seems to have been approved for older women, i saw an advert in the doctors office on Friday. They have to pay, but i think they weren't able to get it at all before because i think it had only been tested on younger women.
So if it's now been tested on women over 26 and found safe an effective, i imagine most countries will make it available to this age-group, and some might even fund it (i.e. you get it free).
They need to give it to both sexes though to get the best results, they need to vaccinate the potential carriers as well...
I seem to have a vaccine obsession... bugger... i just got rejected for a PhD project on vaccines, dang, that wasn't pissing me off till i remembered how cool vaccines are.
I just went to the gyno 2-3 months ago, and boy was it awful! The lady was gentle, warmed up the specs beforehand, and told me what she was doing or going to do, but it was still way uncomfortable to the point of painful. After she was done she gave me privacy to cry in private and call my boyfriend cos I felt so violated... But it's good for my health, so I have to grin (yeah right!) and bear it.
She was even nice enough to get ahold of a free IUD for me, and even better, prescribed me some powerful effective pain pills to drug me up during the IUD insertion. Now THAT was painful. Thank Goddess the pills took away my memory of the day. I couldn't remember my boyfriend holding my hand, or getting me out to the truck in a wheelchair, or taking me out to some expensive chinese food. What a sweet guy he is.
BTW, the gyno told me that men make better gynos cos they're afraid of being sued if they're not gentle enough, lol. If I can find a GLBTQ-friendly male gyno for my next visit, I'll test her claim.
:) GDTripp
OK here's my experience:
I had one years ago, they asked if I was a virgin, and I said, "with guys? yeah" and they put some thing in there and there was a very slight nip and that was it. Also had an Army doctor, an old guy, poke around up in there and feel my overies, it was just not a problem at all other than thinking, "Geesh, I just had an old guy poking around in me" probably the same level of embarassment as a bio-male going to that same old guy for a prostate exam and jizzing.
Getting this stuff done as a bearded, buff male is gonna be interesting.
In New Zealand anyone can get the vaccine, however its only free for those 18 and under. Otherwise, for the full (three?) shots, its costs around $300 I believe... so I'm aiming to get it, once I have medical insurance and will be covered by it XD
This topic = cold chill down spine.
I've never been to a gyno for an internal exam, and I'm sure as hell not starting any time soon. As far as I'm concerned, they can have a good look when they remove it.
I know for a fact I don't have HPV (At the risk of TMI, let's just say I have a rather short history :laugh:). I've had the jabs. I had an ultrasound of the area about 5 years ago (to try to figure out why everyone else's "monthly visitor" is only a quarterly visitor for me). I'm under 30. Let's just say it's really very unlikely that I have cancer.
I plan to get rid of it all in the next 5 or 10 years anyway, I see no point in putting myself through hell. F*** that noise.
IF your body fat is very low your "monthly visitor" will hardly come around. I used to think this was cool in my teens and 20s but it turns out it's not too good for you otherwise.
would reduce your risk of ovarian cancer if it's just due to being underweight, the less you ovulate the less demage you get, pill and pregnancy work too
but can be cause by an underlying problem like pollycystic ovaries, which can cause other trouble
also i think if you are under-weight enough to stop bleeding for a long time it can risk long rfertility, but if you're getting it all removed soon that wouldn't be a concern for you
Yes, but being significantly underweight harms your body in other ways. It's just not worth it, especially if the parts will be removed in other ways. It may decrease ovarian cancer by some amount, but having them removed does so significantly more.
its not necessarily underweight that stops it, its a low fat percentage.
If you don't ovulate, you produce less estrogen so your bones thin. Estrogen and testosterone mantain bones so you need something.
SilverFang
Whether it's being underweight or having an excessively low body fat level, it's not healthy. Like SilverFang mentioned, it can thin your bones, causing osteoporosis later in life. It's probably wiser to cope until testosterone comes along or take birth control pills for a short length of time. Low body fat percentage is often more permanent than the pill.
well it depends on what is stopping it like i said, if it's underweight purely probably worse than over-exercise which can also cause periods to stop
Over-excercising lowers your body fat to levels unnacceptable for reproduction. Once it passes the 12% barrier (I think it's 12%) your body stops ovulating.
Excercise is better though since the stress forces your bones to thicken, so it minimizes loss.
SilverFang
Actually... haver any of the F2Ms here tried just ovber-exercising as a free and easy HRT? It tends to re-wire your hormonal system in a way that generallly masculinises, lack of periods being one of the biggest factors. You'd need to push yourself way beyond a mere mortal though.
I considerred trying to butch up my figure wioth weight training, but lost interrest when i realised by insanely sporty sister still looks very girly... hrmmm... guess it depends on the approach of i do big weights and few reps on carefully chosen bits maybe i could do a bit of reshaping without pushing my whole body too far?
sorry... i'm tangenting.... just a thought
Quote from: metal angel on September 09, 2009, 02:33:13 AM
Actually... haver any of the F2Ms here tried just ovber-exercising as a free and easy HRT? It tends to re-wire your hormonal system in a way that generallly masculinises, lack of periods being one of the biggest factors. You'd need to push yourself way beyond a mere mortal though.
I considerred trying to butch up my figure wioth weight training, but lost interrest when i realised by insanely sporty sister still looks very girly... hrmmm... guess it depends on the approach of i do big weights and few reps on carefully chosen bits maybe i could do a bit of reshaping without pushing my whole body too far?
sorry... i'm tangenting.... just a thought
Yeah, that and under-eating. Less body fat, more muscle, and everything looks more masculine, even the face. I have thought about it and even gone through with it in the past, but I often have my slips. It's not always easy to push yourself beyond what most people would do, or after doing so, avoid eating much. It does seem to masculinize to an extent, though. Exercising and eating well while on T would have its benefits, too. Maybe great.
eryk used to have his red death stop when he exercised hard. maybe he'll chime in at some point.