My recent 'revelation' about myself has started me thinking about what kinds of people here identify as androgynes and what that means to them. Certainly there is a 'purist' almost academic view of what androgynes are but I don't believe many of us actually match this exactly.
I'm really comfortable with my identity as an androgyne. I feel I fit because I definitely don't have a male gender identity and I don't feel like I have a female identity. Yet my desired presentation includes a female body. I guess my brain seems to be wired for a female body and my evidence for this is the feeling of phantom 'parts' and my body dysphoria. But the bit that controls identity is neither male or female and lately I really feel like I have no gender at all. For a long time I thought I wanted to appear 'androgynous' because I identified as an androgyne but then discovered this was not the case, that it is possible and ok for your identity and desired presentation to be mismatched.
I guess my question is what makes you identify as fitting with the androgynes? How do you see this in relation to male and female genders i.e. are you a mix, neither, 30/70, some other gender or ungendered, pregendered? What is your desired presentation in terms of body and dress?
i really do think androgynes are missing something in their brain chemistry that allows them to grasp the gender at any deep and intuitive level. So I think the variety of methods of expressing, getting around and coping with that are just different people's reactions to the same thing.
Quote from: Pica Pica on April 27, 2008, 03:21:38 PM
i really do think androgynes are missing something in their brain chemistry that allows them to grasp the gender at any deep and intuitive level. So I think the variety of methods of expressing, getting around and coping with that are just different people's reactions to the same thing.
You could be right. We all seem to have a lot of similarities in exprerience, outlook, etc..
But I think it more likely we are all variations of the same thing, which leads to different methods of expression and coping.
There is some recent evidence to suggest transexuals brains are wired to accept stimuli from a certain body - that this is mapped out very early on in our development. (there is an article in the news section of this site in regard to phantom penises and other things). I'm quite facinated at how many transexuals, and probably other trans people too, have certain physical markers like the finger ratio suggesting altered development to what is typical in bio men and women. This suggests to me that there could be a lot of things going on, that gender identiy is one aspect (or aspects) that is related to a whole raft of things. Perhaps an altered brain chemistry is just a symptom of something else like invitro hormone levels or genetic predisposition or a whole complicated dance of stuff. It might be we are alternatively tuned humans, the timing is different but we are in balance within ourselves.
I guess I self-identify as androgyne because I'm not fully comfortable in my bio-male body, but I don't think I'd be fully comfortable in a bio-female body either. My ideal body would combine physiological aspects of both male and female body parts.
Even then, I'd not want to look like a half-and-half person. Ideally, I'd have a form that was visually ambiguous while clothed.
First, I apologize for failure to contribute this week. As you may remember, I started working again at UPS April 15, after 6 weeks of doctor-ordered no heavy lifting. The first week back my supervisor gave my light duty and short hours. This week, the kid gloves were off. I was coming home exhausted. I was waking up with cramps in my legs. Management was happy with me, though; Friday they told me that of the packages I had loaded Wednesday and Thursday, I only loaded 1 on the wrong "package car". And day by day it comes easier.
Second, I may be of the old Chinese restaurant 'type' of androgyne: I want to pick some from column A and some from column B plus a special or two. In an exchange I wanted to jump into during the week, Z said, in part: "I would choose to dress much more feminine, but without trying to pass as female." Kikly quoted and agreed with Z and dreamt of this troika: "female hair/breasts/beard". I jumped out of my chair and yelled, "Me too; me too!"
Putting my hair in a pony tail and donning a suit for the coming family wedding is fine with me. So is the same hair with jeans and T-shirt at work. But I would like to be able to fix my hair differently. I think I could do without stiletto heels. I would like to pick and wear clothes from the other side of the aisle when the whim took me. I definitely do not feel genetically chosen to kill spiders and other creepy-crawlies.
I'm the kind of androgyne who looks at the TS forums and thinks if I were a teen now, there's a good chance I'd take that path. But I've a wife I love, who has learned to use my breast buds to get what she wants, too. Relations between my grown kids and me are good. No surgery would make my feet, hands, and bowed legs look feminine. I might not live long enough to successfully transition. And I have the freedom to do a large part of what I would do as a woman.
In summary, I can almost pass as a male, and I'd look ridiculous trying to pass as a female, but I don't feel like either--and never have.
Respectfully,
S
This is what really struck me as a big difference between me and other androgynes. If I could I would avoid male clothing altogether.
Quote from: NickSister on April 27, 2008, 07:07:48 PM
This is what really struck me as a big difference between me and other androgynes. If I could I would avoid male clothing altogether.
There are days when I feel more masculine than femminine, and vice versa. I don't fit the definition of bi-gender, so I guess it's just a mood thing. There are times when I don't mind male clothing at all, times when I actually crave it.
What type am I? 15 years, and I'm still trying to figure it out. I'd say androgyne/borderline TG, because I'd prefer female characteristics, breasts, full head of hair... but I don't do HRT. I deal with wearing jeans and t shirts and tying my hair in a ponytail, but I'd rather wear wrap skirts and summer dresses. I shaved off my beard years ago, occasionally have thought of having a goatee, but if I don't have to leave the house for a few days and don't shave, my partner complains that I'm too bristly to kiss, and I like being kissed ;D My mannerisms are just me, many female, but I don't make an effort to change my voice, which is baritone and a dead giveaway. I dislike being perceived as male.
Quote from: Simone Louise on April 27, 2008, 06:48:19 PM
In summary, I can almost pass as a male, and I'd look ridiculous trying to pass as a female, but I don't feel like either--and never have.
That pretty much says it Simone, I don't feel like either!
Zythyra
Toss me in the same camp with Zythyra.
I'm both male and female in my thinking in a male body. There are times i'm way into male mode and happy to be there, and there are times i'm way into female mode and trying to find my way as this is new to me. What is becoming apparent to me is that I want to take it a step past just being androgyne in that I want to (and am) growing real boobs, and I have a sudden interest in female fashion and makeup. Perhaps i'm on the way to TG. This thing is like an onion with many interesting layers, and I seem to find a new surprise with each layer. I'm still pretty sure that SRS would not do anything to improve me or my situation, i'd still be as unhappy with a female body as a male one so i'm not considering that.
Quote from: Zythyra on April 27, 2008, 08:26:41 PM
I shaved off my beard years ago, occasionally have thought of having a goatee, but if I don't have to leave the house for a few days and don't shave, my partner complains that I'm too bristly to kiss, and I like being kissed ;D
Zythyra
I've never had complaints about the beard from my partners--and no shortage of kisses. Those who've kissed tell me it's soft and furry. Sometimes, I'm confused with the Beast, from the Disney movie. It's the glasses, though. I have to remove the glasses if I want more than a peck.
I do like kisses,
S
Quote from: Simone Louise on April 27, 2008, 09:39:47 PM
I've never had complaints about the beard from my partners--and no shortage of kisses. Those who've kissed tell me it's soft and furry. Sometimes, I'm confused with the Beast, from the Disney movie. It's the glasses, though. I have to remove the glasses if I want more than a peck.
I do like kisses,
S
I think once my beard grows out it's OK, but the three day to week growth is scratchy
Z
I'm the type of androgyne that socks other androgynes in the jaw for asking "what 'type' of androgyne are you?"
You got that?
Quote from: riven_one on April 27, 2008, 09:36:16 PM
I'm still pretty sure that SRS would not do anything to improve me or my situation, i'd still be as unhappy with a female body as a male one so i'm not considering that.
I'm not keen on SRS either. If I had the pain free choice with no complications or surgery I would probably choose a vulva but I'm not opposed to my man bits. Perhaps if I actually did look like a woman my parts would feel more incongruent. Though they are awfully snug in nickers it would be insane to change them when they don't seem to be a focus of my dysphoria.
Posted on: April 27, 2008, 10:33:49 PM
Quote from: Rebis on April 27, 2008, 10:33:30 PM
I'm the type of androgyne that socks other androgynes in the jaw for asking "what 'type' of androgyne are you?"
You got that?
There is always one
Notes down in my book
"Rebis - the angry type" ;D
Ok, instead of type, how about how do you describe your androgyny?
Quote from: Rebis on April 27, 2008, 10:33:30 PM
I'm the type of androgyne that socks other androgynes in the jaw for asking "what 'type' of androgyne are you?"
You got that?
OK, we got it!
<Z backs away carefully, looking around for the nearest exit> :P
Z
Quote from: Zythyra on April 27, 2008, 08:26:41 PM
I'd say androgyne/borderline TG, because I'd prefer female characteristics, breasts, full head of hair... but I don't do HRT.
That's pretty close to how it's with me, too. I'd go slightly further, though, and say 'androgyne / TS in remission' or something like that, as it's quite clear I wish for a female body but am not desperate enough about it to give up my marriage. As for the androgyne part, for me it's more a matter of social gender than body image. I've never really been able to grasp gender other than as role playing, and I don't think I would be any more (or less) comfortable in a female role than I currently am in a sort-of-male one. A genderqueer woman in a male body, I suppose.
Nfr
Quote from: Seshatneferw on April 28, 2008, 08:41:53 AM
That's pretty close to how it's with me, too. I'd go slightly further, though, and say 'androgyne / TS in remission' or something like that, as it's quite clear I wish for a female body but am not desperate enough about it to give up my marriage.
Funny, I originally typed TS, then changed it to TG.... but yes, somewhere around that on the continuum. I'd probably be more likely to think of myself as non-op, non HRT TS except there are too many people who'd tell me I'm not TS if I don't want to go all the way, and I don't want to rile anyone up. Well, except for maybe riling up Rebis, sie looks cute when sie gets mad >:D :P
Z
Quote from: riven_one on April 27, 2008, 09:36:16 PM
I'm still pretty sure that SRS would not do anything to improve me or my situation, i'd still be as unhappy with a female body as a male one so i'm not considering that.
Ditto.
Quote from: NickSister on April 27, 2008, 10:35:29 PM
Quote from: Rebis on April 27, 2008, 10:33:30 PM
I'm the type of androgyne that socks other androgynes in the jaw for asking "what 'type' of androgyne are you?"
You got that?
There is always one
Notes down in my book
"Rebis - the angry type" ;D
Ok, instead of type, how about how do you describe your androgyny?
My androgyny is similar to yours except I don't do any presenting. you do some presenting, don't you? Makeup or mixed clothing.
It's similar to Zythyra, Jaimey, Pica, except I'd like a truly mixed body. Confused.
Posted on: April 28, 2008, 11:43:09 AM
Quote from: Seshatneferw on April 28, 2008, 08:41:53 AM
Quote from: Zythyra on April 27, 2008, 08:26:41 PM
I'd say androgyne/borderline TG, because I'd prefer female characteristics, breasts, full head of hair... but I don't do HRT.
That's pretty close to how it's with me, too. I'd go slightly further, though, and say 'androgyne / TS in remission' or something like that, as it's quite clear I wish for a female body but am not desperate enough about it to give up my marriage. As for the androgyne part, for me it's more a matter of social gender than body image. I've never really been able to grasp gender other than as role playing, and I don't think I would be any more (or less) comfortable in a female role than I currently am in a sort-of-male one. A genderqueer woman in a male body, I suppose.
Nfr
What
they said. But without polka dots.
Posted on: April 28, 2008, 11:45:04 AM
Quote from: Zythyra on April 28, 2008, 08:47:30 AM
Funny, I originally typed TS, then changed it to TG.... but yes, somewhere around that on the continuum. I'd probably be more likely to think of myself as non-op, non HRT TS except there are too many people who'd tell me I'm not TS if I don't want to go all the way, and I don't want to rile anyone up. Well, except for maybe riling up Rebis, sie looks cute when sie gets mad >:D :P
Z
Thanks. And just to rub it in. Last night a woman told me I look 29. I'm 45. ha ha.
you're only as young as the people whose blood you drink. I think Dracula said that.
Quote from: Rebis on April 28, 2008, 11:47:38 AM
My androgyny is similar to yours except I don't do any presenting. you do some presenting, don't you? Makeup or mixed clothing.
yeah, I find it a necessity. It feels too bad not to. I have longish hair that I often tie up or use hair clips to keep it out of my face. I have quite a bit of female jewellery, often my nails are painted though chipped. I avoid clothing that is too masculine - suits, ties, shirts (unless fitted) etc. I wear woman's shoes and currently am getting IPL hair removal on my face, the best thing I ever did. I'm not really into make-up though. Seems like too much of a hassle to me, especially since I often rub my eyes and touch my face, also I am good looking enough ;). I might put on a bit of lippy and eyeliner on rare occasions, like once or twice a year. but that's about it. I like things practical - short nails, easy hair styles, sneakers.
Types of andros? Oh golly gosh, let's not start this over here. Let's just be happy that in the rainbow of human existance we are all the colors at the same time. The other option is that we start some sort of 'what kind' which leads to 'what is the right kind' (hint: its me, and not you) debate that has served the TS community less well then the fundy Christians have.
Quote from: tekla on April 28, 2008, 05:19:17 PM
Types of andros? Oh golly gosh, let's not start this over here.
As long as no one starts talking about "true" androgynes, I think we're safe.
Besides, I never got the Androgyne Wo/Man-ual so I'm just making it all up as I go ;D
Z
Quote from: Zythyra on April 28, 2008, 05:38:00 PMQuote from: tekla on April 28, 2008, 05:19:17 PM
Types of andros? Oh golly gosh, let's not start this over here.
As long as no one starts talking about "true" androgynes, I think we're safe.
Something about low frictional co-efficients and downward inclines springs to mind.
this post deleted because Pica is a stupid arse... see below.
(aah, god sorry nick sister, I accidentally pressed modify on your message instead of quote, wrote my comment on it, saved it. then my computer crashed...I am an idiot, sorry. It was something that provoked some thoughts, sorry I accidently trashed it and all :-* :-*)
Pica
Quote from: Pica Pica on April 28, 2008, 06:40:28 PM
(aah, god sorry nick sister, I accidentally pressed modify on your message instead of quote, wrote my comment on it, saved it. then my computer crashed...I am an idiot, sorry. It was something that provoked some thoughts, sorry I accidently trashed it and all :-* :-*)
Pica
What were the thoughts?
No worries. The jist of it was I think we should be an inclusive group rather than and exclusive one - that none of us probably really fit the 'ideal' if there was one. That it is ok to look at our differences, and find commonalities. Otherwise we can end up assuming we are all the same, or we become a box which restricts us. I know I fell into thinking I need an androgynous body when that was not really what I want.
Sounds good.
One of the (or perhaps even just 'the') main things for me is the freedom to disregard gender-based expectations. The times I've really been unhappy about being seen as a man have all been times when people expect me to behave in certain ways just because of that perceived gender. On the other hand, the reason I didn't feel I fit in as a TS was that I want to just get rid of those expectations, not swap them for another set. As an androgyne -- at least as the term is understood here -- I'm more free to do whatever I want to. Of course, the obvious consequence is that others have the same kind of freedom.
Nfr
I'm Unsure of what i am because my thoughts are always sliding
biological male
70% - 80% female
5%- 10% male
5% - 20% other
=
80% - 110% confused ??? :'( ;D ???
Before I found this site (or herd the term 'androgyne') i had explained it to friends as
You know how Men are from mars & Women are from Venus?
well i'm from Pluto.
I'd like my body to reflect that but I'm also wanting to be accepted, Loved and have a family.
my mum has told me she doesn't want to see me with both makeup & a beard.
if I were to make my outer image identical to my inner image I would be very female + a big bushy beard
but i don't think anyone would accept me as such.
Quote from: Kikly on May 01, 2008, 04:38:01 PM
my mum has told me she doesn't want to see me with both makeup & a beard.
if I were to make my outer image identical to my inner image I would be very female + a big bushy beard
but i don't think anyone would accept me as such.
I think people who appear female look great in beards!! ;D It probably doesn't help you much with the rest of the world, but I have no problem accepting you, or anyone else, as such.
Z
I'm okay with bearded women too.
(maybe this attitude is what got us thrown into the ghetto)
Hmm...I'm the oblivious type. Didn't know I was androgyne until I realized that everyone else was different (read: wrong :laugh:). I have no grasp on gender. I have tried mimicking the women around me, but that was very uncomfortable. It's a lot easier to just be me. It will be a lot easier for the rest of you too, so if you will all start acting like me...
Quote from: Rebis on May 01, 2008, 08:04:36 PM
I'm okay with bearded women too.
(maybe this attitude is what got us thrown into the ghetto)
but are the bearded women okay with you? :P Of course they are...how could anyone not love our Rebis? :laugh:
I'm trying to figure out the same thing.
Very interesting to hear others perspective.
I personally feel that I am female. Having a male body does very very little for me and I have no desire to live this way. Add to the matter that testosterone had really driven me into a state where I could not function (I still have no way to describe this, I always thought that it was not possible until I was able to eliminate much of my testosterone via prescription).
Anyhow, I do like female bodies much more and feel more comfortable being seen as a woman myself. Yet I am very much a tomboy and love wearing fitted suits. I do things that could be stereotypically seen as male (I work in IT to support my wife, I fix my own car, I enjoy the ins of business deals and managing people). As I currently am, I am often very much an androgyne in that I have pink hair in a pony tail, no facial hair, and a very middle of the road body (skinny, and feminine - but missing the appropriate curves for the most part).
Add to this I ultimately care little for what pronouns others use. More often then not I will only specify it when others ask, else I let them use what they wish and do not concern myself with correcting them. I've also met people who consider themselves to be postgender / transhumanists, and I also find this to be interesting as it ties in well with a great deal of my personal feelings. :)
(reposted due to the db restore).
Quote from: Zythyra on May 01, 2008, 05:27:37 PM
Quote from: Kikly on May 01, 2008, 04:38:01 PM
my mum has told me she doesn't want to see me with both makeup & a beard.
if I were to make my outer image identical to my inner image I would be very female + a big bushy beard
but i don't think anyone would accept me as such.
I think people who appear female look great in beards!! ;D It probably doesn't help you much with the rest of the world, but I have no problem accepting you, or anyone else, as such.
Z
thanks Z its good to know that some people will accept me but I'd like someone who the world sees as 'normal' (whatever that means)
to accept me
I've only seen 2 bearded females both on TV 1 on a variety comedy show she was a dancer and took her beard off at the end of her performance.
the other in the movie spaceballs
"who r u?"
"I'm the bearded lady what r u, 1 of the freaks?"
Quote from: Kikly on May 03, 2008, 05:40:56 PM
thanks Z its good to know that some people will accept me but I'd like someone who the world sees as 'normal' (whatever that means)
to accept me
I've only seen 2 bearded females both on TV 1 on a variety comedy show she was a dancer and took her beard off at the end of her performance.
the other in the movie spaceballs
"who r u?"
"I'm the bearded lady what r u, 1 of the freaks?"
Kikly, check out Jennifer Miller!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Miller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Miller)
Jennifer Miller
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jennifer Miller (born 1961) is an American circus entertainer, writer, and professor in the UCLA Department of World Arts and Cultures. She is a bearded woman, juggler, and fire eater. Miller lives in New York City.
Miller is the youngest daughter of two Jewish-turned-Quaker professors and she grew up in Connecticut and California. Miller became involved in the performing arts and theater while in high school, and was involved in the downtown dance scene in New York in the early 1980s. In her career as a performing artist, which has spanned over 20 years, she has performed with numerous choreographers and dancers, several circus companies, and in the Coney Island SideShow.
In 1989, she founded the acclaimed NYC political performance troupe Circus Amok and has directed it ever since. She was also a focus of Tami Gold's documentary Juggling Gender and Circus Amok has been the subject of numerous documentary films. Miller is widely recognized for her work and is the recipient of awards including the Obie, Bessie, BAX 10, and most recently the Ethyl Eichelberger Award. She teaches in New York and California at several universities including UCLA, Cal Arts, Scripps College, NYU and Pratt Institute.
I went and saw an exhibition, Assume Nothing, by Rebecca Swan at my local gallery. There was a picture of a bearded lady in it (see below): I think this persons name is Mani Bruce Mitchel.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wmm.com%2Ffilmcatalog%2Fphotos%2Fc697.JPG&hash=974f16e5d16e6561596015769a7e7002ec1c5816)
The exhibition was fantastic - actually I think I will make a new topic on it...
Hey Nikki, I'm not seeing the beard in the pic. ???
Quote from: Nero on May 04, 2008, 04:19:54 PM
Hey Nikki, I'm not seeing the beard in the pic. ???
Yeah, not that obvious :( It was really obvious in the big blown up version - but it was a wispy beard and not a full on cave man styles.
the beard in pick from nick is very light/thin and is hardly seen,
the Jennifer miller link is closer to my beard at the moment but life outside of a freak show might not work
thanks for the pics & link NickSister & Zythyra
Quote from: Kikly on May 04, 2008, 04:55:16 PM
the beard in pick from nick is very light/thin and is hardly seen,
the Jennifer miller link is closer to my beard at the moment but life outside of a freak show might not work
thanks for the pics & link NickSister & Zythyra
Before I shaved it off, my beard used to be somewhere between Jennifer Miller's and pic from Nicksister. I wouldn't mind having a goatee, but like you Kikly, don't see myself as having much of a future as a circus performer. :P
Z
For me it changes on a day to day basis. Some days I really like being a male in male-mode, and some days I feel more girly. It is a constantly shifting feeling. The conflict between the two sides of me is always there, and it gets tiring at times.
I find it impossible to trust anyone who sculpts their facial hair.
Quote from: riven_one on May 04, 2008, 05:54:49 PM
For me it changes on a day to day basis. Some days I really like being a male in male-mode, and some days I feel more girly. It is a constantly shifting feeling. The conflict between the two sides of me is always there, and it gets tiring at times.
Ditto.
I realized recently that I don't have a "way I am", only an imitation of whoever I happen to be admiring at the time. I watch the L Word and I want to be Shane, a girl (and a lesbain). I watch Nelly and I want to be male and muscular (and a gay man). I've never just been myself before, ever. I suspect that myself might not exist outside of the warring images of my role models. It causes me extreme pain to love my body and happily wear a dress one day, only to want to be the next Eminem the day after. I try to compromise by wearing little boys clothes and short hair with jewelry and eyeliner and my 36D cleavage but it doesn't solve the problem.
I don't know who/what I am. =/
This is something I'm thrashing out myself. I feel desperately wrong in my assigned gender (female), and have severe problems with my body. I?m told that my textual voice is very male (usually by interlocutors who are trying to dismiss or silence me, so I don't know how true that is). In my magical and spiritual life, which is such a big part of who I am, I'm told that I play a very "male" role in a lot of ways. (I'd dispute this, I consider the work I do in that line to be wholly androgynous, and again this is often said to me in a dismissive or derogatory way.) I like scientific subjects and find them very engaging and interesting. But I don't feel like a guy either. I bind (to the best of my limited ability--I'm far too fat for it to work properly) when I CD but I don't pack. I also have quite a lot of traditionally feminine interests and passtimes.
I experience myself as very fluid, but that fluidity seems to be rooted in kind of a male place. The only time I'm really okay with presenting as female is when I do it in such a way as to appear like a man performing femaleness. WRT my physical self, I can't stand that I have a big top and other female features. I'd love a nice manly chest, and fantasise about surgery all the time.
Sometimes I don't feel like "an androgyne" in the sense of existing in a functional gender role at all. I just feel insufficient, broken and flawed.
Quote from: Lokaeign on May 06, 2008, 06:24:29 AM
Sometimes I don't feel like "an androgyne" in the sense of existing in a functional gender role at all. I just feel insufficient, broken and flawed.
that sounds about right to me.
Quote from: Pica Pica on May 04, 2008, 08:48:21 PM
I find it impossible to trust anyone who sculpts their facial hair.
Does doing one's best to shave it all off count as sculpting?
No. That counts as eradicating.
Quote
I guess my question is what makes you identify as fitting with the androgynes? How do you see this in relation to male and female genders i.e. are you a mix, neither, 30/70, some other gender or ungendered, pregendered? What is your desired presentation in terms of body and dress?
One thing that happens often is that when I'm with an all-male group, such as some situations at work, or in the pub, I as a bio-male definitely feel more feminine than the other guys appear to be. Even my voice veers off into a higher register. It's not a particularly comfortable feeling, but it's a sign.
In many ways I@m happy with my male characteristics, and am fine with my body and being rather hairy and so on. But I also like pretty things, scents and fluffy tops to wear and skirts. That's how ideally I would dress. It's hot today, and I'd love bo swap my shorts for a short skirt, and might well do so at home, but there are practical problems with that out in the street! The day may be coming when man-skirts and modern kilts and the like are more prevalent, but at the moment I don't fancy being abused, beaten up or shot as I go peacefully about my business.
I am definitely a mix. what numbers to put on it I don't know. If I can rely on all those questionnaires about being masc or fem, well, I'm just about 50/50. I don't feel myself as non-gendered as some androgynes do, but rather both-gendered, or multi-gendered, and very happy to be so.
I've come up with a presentaion that works for me, and that is pretty much a mixutre of male and female characteristics. I wear more colourful clothes than males are supposed to in our culture, and have long hair, but the I have hairy arms and have pretty much a male shape - all I know is that people don't take me to be a woman, possibly they rather take me as a weird kind of man, which is also wrong, but I get through as I am.
Quote from: nicola_legrand on June 08, 2008, 11:49:41 AM
I've come up with a presentaion that works for me, and that is pretty much a mixutre of male and female characteristics. I wear more colourful clothes than males are supposed to in our culture, and have long hair, but the I have hairy arms and have pretty much a male shape - all I know is that people don't take me to be a woman, possibly they rather take me as a weird kind of man, which is also wrong, but I get through as I am.
I think many of us are looking for the presentation that works for us. It is hard sometimes to find that right look that makes us feel comfortable as ourselves and yet not be so self-conscious about what others may think. I know I am dealing with several issues regarding this. Way to go for finding one that works for you.
.....L
Wow Laurry, that avatar is quite a contrast to the last one you had.
It's amazing how easy you seem to switch.
Thanks sd, but it only looks easy when you show pictures taken several months apart.
I'm guessing that you saw my current picture (which was up for maybe 10 minutes before I chickened out and took it down). It's a sad time when Nero has more balls than I do, but then, he is a guy and I'm not.
Quote from: Pica Pica on May 04, 2008, 08:48:21 PM
I find it impossible to trust anyone who sculpts their facial hair.
Woe is me...even Pica doesn't trust me in when I'm in guy mode. I have enough trouble living with/without a beard without frightening small children and British androgynes (cute as they may be).
......L
Aw...I thought your facial was quite lovely, Laurry. Actually, you have some pretty awesome hair, so with the gotee (it was a gotee, right?), you looked quite distinguished. :D It looks good without the gotee too. :) I'm jealous. Mine's looking a little crappy lately...
...Although I'm curious...have you been to my mom's house taking pictures? Because that pic could've been taken in her living room. :P Looks just like my brother's pics on facebook...except you smile. :laugh: What is it with teenage boys and smiling? I just don't get it...
Quote from: Laurry on June 09, 2008, 02:33:30 PM
Thanks sd, but it only looks easy when you show pictures taken several months apart.
I'm guessing that you saw my current picture (which was up for maybe 10 minutes before I chickened out and took it down). It's a sad time when Nero has more balls than I do, but then, he is a guy and I'm not.
......L
No, I missed that one.
I was referring this current picture and the one you were using with beard.
Nero is a special case, he has bigger balls than most.
Thanks Jaimey. I guess no one saw the other...yeah! It was a kind of Mick Fleetwood with cleavage look. Kinda creeped me out...I think it was a little too accurate for my ego to deal with.
Anyway...
Sorry for the thread drift...my bad.
As this discussion has pointed out, I tend to drift in presentation from male-enough to not-quite-female...quite sad, really. I think I would really prefer to live as if I were a female/tomboy, but I'm just not quite ready to risk everything to find out. So far, anyway, I have been able to resist, but I know, deep inside, that it is a loosing battle.
Hmmm, thinking about that...it's not quite right. I want to look like an older version of me before the testosterone kicked in and ruined a good thing...except with small A/B cup breasts. I want to look boy/girl/whatever again, and be mistaken for either sex. Yeah...that's the dream. Now I just have to figure out how to make it happen. <sigh>
........L
Quote from: Laurry on June 10, 2008, 11:54:05 AM
It was a kind of Mick Fleetwood with cleavage look.
Now
that's a visual I could do without. ;)
Quote from: Lokaeign on May 06, 2008, 06:24:29 AM
I just feel insufficient, broken and flawed.
I've been feeling the same way a lot lately. It is not a happy place to be, and life events have not been helping much either.