LGB ... LGBT ... LGBTQ no, no LGBTI. Okay then LGBTIQ. And let's not forget about Androgynes and Neutrois, so LGBTIQAN. I'm sure I could keep adding letters if I really wanted to, but it's starting to look a bit like what I usually end up with in Scrabble.
Then of course there's the politics. Transsexuals not wanting to mix with CD's or TV's. Intersexed people seeing the transgendered as some sort of a threat to their rights, with much the same prejudice from sections of the gay and Lesbian community. It seems all we as a 'community' do is fight with each other, taking a break every now and again to fend off the occasional right-wing fundamentalist or media ignorance or whatever.
So what is the solution? Whichever 'group' you fall into, none of us can deny that it is in all our interests to put aside our differences and get the heterosexual, cisgendered minority (because really, when you put all those letters together, surely we outnumber them?! ;) ) to treat us with the respect, acceptance and equality we deserve?
The chairperson and founder of GenderDynamix (South Africa's only trans-activism group (so far ;D )) Liesl Bjorn, has been touring the US and Europe the last few weeks networking with local groups and hopefully making alliances. She posted recently, and said I was welcome to repost here. So what do you think of the idea?
QuoteI have heard a few more here in NYC, and will bring it all to you.
TTT movement: Transgender, ->-bleeped-<- and Transsexual movement. This is clearly being used by trans* organisations and the 3x T's are being used to acknowledge the 3 T's are quite different.
LGBTSTGNC:Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Two-Spirit, Trans and Gender Non Conforming.
A few notes I picked up:
1) In many discussions, depending the context of the statement the term gender identity gets challenged, or being replaced by gender expression. Motivation for this: [Gender] identity is a self-description and when one expereince prejudice or violation of Human Rights/ Hate crimes it is not because of gender identity but because of gender expression.
When a person gets raped, killed, harrased or face discrimination it is not so much because of identity but expression. The muderer or rapist was prejudiced not because of how a person identify - but because of how the victim "look."
Think back to middle of last year, even when the woman in KZN (who is not LGBT) got harrassed and her shack burned down because the men in the village didn't approve of her wearing trousers - it got nothing to do with her gender identity. (She was cisgender and most possible straight) It was about her expression - she wore trousers and it didn't fit in....
2) Gender Non Conforming "becomming" the new umbrella term, over arching all identities. Although it sounds like a long word, GNC is much shorter than using in one acronym TG, TS, TV, etc and including intersex. There is very limited organisations and individual activists who are collaborating between trans* and intersex.
Gender Non Conforming is a much, more politized phrase to use and can be opened up to form much more alliences with movements who fights for injustices against people's bodies.
Hope to hear people's comments on this...
~Simone.
The 3 Ts has possibilities, since it acknowledges the differences, unfortunately it leaves out plenty of people who don't identify as any of those three; genderqueer, androgyne, intersex as examples.
GNC is OK, but I run into the same problem with it that I have with using gender variant, they both have the subtle implication that gender normative is still the measure.
Bottom line for me though, I don't really care what we call it, as long as we're working together to attain our equal rights.
Z
the simple solution is to exterminate everyone who makes it untidy at the edges.
I continue to think the normal GLBT covers everything pretty well. Shrug. :)
what i find confusing is that some people use the term transGender as an umberaler term others see it as meaning what this site classes as TS
I recal seeing on a support website website for LGBITQQA Lesbian Gay Bi Intersex Trans Queer Questioning ally - seems silly
Its kind of like Alice in Genderland where everyone gets to define the words as they want to, so little agreement is possible.
I read the title and thought I might have done something wrong? ???
;D
QuoteI read the title and thought I might have done something wrong? ???
:laugh:
Mmm, it seems like no matter which letters you have in the LGBT____ acronym, people are always going to feel either annoyed or marginalised by their 'representaive letter' not appearing, or justified in persecuting those who aren't represented - there are always going to be smart-arses (sorry, can I say that here? ???) who twist logic (if they're not present in the acronym, then they're legitimate targets for attack, etc etc etc). Even something inclusive like "AGAS" - All Genders And Sexualities - does not *specifically* name the 'groups' involved, and so would quite possibly miss the point (and therefore solve nothing).
The UN doesn't have some nicely-succinct acronym, does it?
just call us all deviant and be done with it.
Quote from: alphabet-soup on April 30, 2008, 09:50:04 PM
I read the title and thought I might have done something wrong? ???
Yes, you ate all the Ts!! ;)
Of course, I'm just as bad, I ate all the Qs and Zs >:D
Z
The only real answer I can think of is: we don't. Social politics have and will always be around, automatically appearing and arising with any social group.
Ex: the Feminist movement. There has yet to be one clear definition given of what the Feminist movement is, that is accepted by every person who believes they are part of the movement. Upon the surface it seems simple: it's the movement for the liberation and acceptance of women. But who defines "women"?
There are white women and black women and every color of women, and there are straight women and gay women, etc., and then what about transwomen? Are they accepted by everyone in the feminist movement? No. There's no single group called "women" which everyone equally belongs to, and each group within the Feminist movement has its own problems, its own views and its own goals.
Same with the Trans-movement, if there's even such a thing. Lady Amarant, I agree with you, about the best thing that can be done is for leaders of different groups to come and work together toward a common cause, recognising that there will always be differences, and working with each other instead of against each other.
The specifics of the actual labels and terms used are probably as good now as they ever possibly could become, but of course will evolve with the political and social climate of the times. LGBTQ seems, to me at least, to be a satisfactory umbrella term. Or "queer" which is used a lot now. There will never be a time when 100% of the people are happy with whatever term is used.
I don't know, I don't have any answer that others haven't said. But it's still fun to discuss! Lets keep this going...