I can't deal with my situation. Marco is my entire support system and I don't know where to go when I'm upset with him. My kids have officially disowned me. I just don't feel like there is anyone to speak up in my defense. Marco has enough to deal with in his own life, I can't expect him to fight my battles for me. I just get so self destructive. Last week when I was having a hard time, I was making myself throw up. This week, my new thing is cutting myself. I just feel like I want to hurt myself. I'm in intensive therapy and they're doing everything they can to keep me alive, but I am just worried that I won't make it out of this whole thing alive. Believe it or not, I'm on two different anti-depressants. I just want to feel like someone gives a ->-bleeped-<- about me. Help me please.
Oh please don't hurt yourself. I would hate to see a person such as yourself leave this world. It saddens my heart to hear that you are going through that. :'( I am glad that you felt you could share with us. I know that spouses go through a harder time than the TS person, which is why many marriages don't last. I know everyone on here wants to see that you stay alive. You're a beautiful woman Pam. Please stop cutting yourself. You do not deserve it. How could anybody as wonderful as you deserve that? Please keep yourself safe for both Marco and us.
Melissa
Hi Pam... awl hon, I wish I could take your hands and pull you close, hold you tight, give you the safety to just CRY...
I know you don't know me, but I've been following your posts... and I'm SO sorry for all the pain.
Please, PLEASE don't do anything too irreversible. I know, I get it, I know the urge, but... don't - I'm asking. We're all asking. Don't. Please.
You have a tender heart. I know it hurts. But it's also why you're so beautiful. A helluva trade-off, I know, but damn... not many people like you do. They close off instead. Become cold to the world.
I don't want us to lose anyone else. Please...
Hay hay HAY NOW! NO fair hurting yourself, life does that to us quite well enough on it's own! NO help is needed, so STOP THAT! *HUG*
Please be careful with the anti-depressants, as I understand it some of them do not play well with each other; Best to make sure the prescribing doctors know of all the medications and such like, just in case and all.
WE DO CARE PAM! SERIOUSLY! We really really do care!
Melissa, Kate and Kimberly,
Thank you so much for your kind words. Marco held me and let me sob on him for a while. It is such a blessing to have people here to listen and lend words of encouragement. I know that I handled this hurdle incorrectly. I'm supposed to be using the positive coping skills that I have learned in counseling...instead, I'm being self destructive. Here Marco had his first shot today and we went to dinner at the Hard Rock Cafe to celebrate (no drinking was involved...most of our celebrating is sober...besides, anti depressants and alcohol DONT mix), and I go and have an "episode". I'm sure that it does not help that I am having a horrific "my time of the month" right now too.
Well, it is getting late and Marco and I are getting sleepy (I wonder when the side effects of the T kick in...that could be a source of cheering up).
I just wanted to say how much Marco and I appreciate this site and all the wonderful, supportive people that are here for us day after day...What would we do without you....THANK YOU!!!!!
Pam
As far as the side effects of T, Pam, be prepared to wake up tomorrow morning to indoor activities.
And we all care about you Pam. You have men and women who are willing to give a nonjudgmental (albeit long distance) hug. I know how it feels when it feels so bad that you have to cut yourself to transfer the pain or make it more tangible or something. It's a sign that you need an outlet hon. And Marco might not be the best outlet for you because he's going through his own stuff. Plus, as you said, when you're pissed at him that leaves you without an outlet. Is your therapist still around? Or is there a friend outside your family you can call on?
I know we're not the same as that, but at least we at Susan's are there for you.
/hugs
Dennis
Dennis,
Marco's T must not be working that quickly. When we woke up this morning, and a couple times yesterday after the injection, I would ask him if he's feeling any effects yet. The only thing so far is that his voice is crackly. He already has a low voice from being on T before, but it might get a little lower. So far, no other effects...
I can't thank you enough for your support and advice that you have given me through my posts. I do have friends outside my family, but they are people that are also friends with the ex. Right now, if people are entertaining what my ex says, I find myself not even wanting to talk to them. It's very hard for me to trust those people...I have found myself betrayed by them, so I don't feel that they could really be a good sounding board for me. Besides, they are not seeing my ex for what he really is...he's a really good salesman and has these people convinced that he is such a wonderful guy and the poor little victim in all this. Nobody is aware of the underhanded lengths he is going to to attempt to ruin me. I do have one friend at my work that was never my ex's friend...she is a resource I can trust. Well, here I am rambling again!
I just wanted to tell you thanks for being there and for the hug! ;D
Pam
WOW...This time words escape me....I truly feel your pain.
I know how it gets so stressed and full of pain that the only way one can find a break or release is by "letting it out" by inflicting more pain on yourself. Wether it be from cutting yourself to stabbing yourself to make yourself throw - up. It seems that by doing those things and inflicting more pain it makes you forget for a moment about the real pain that weighs on your concouse damn girl if ayone knows that pain I can certainly testify that I DO on all those levels. At christmas 2005 after experiencing so much levels of hatred, pain, and years of sexual and physical abuse by both strangers and so called family I came to an endpass with testing Positve for HIV through no fault of my owns even though I took every possible safe sex precaution i still ended up having my GREATEST FEAR come to reality.i to felt alone and as if no one including GOD cared about me. I seriously considered suicide. I cannot begin to tell you the unimaginable things I thought of doing to myself. the only thing that stop me was thinking of that eternal sleep never waking up and I am already constantly haunted by nightmares so I cannot imagine what an eternity in one of my nightmares maybe like. Probably HELL
I still have no idea what bought me to the point of where I am today Maybe it was actually having my greatest fear become reality maybe it was devine intervention. But I realized by inflicting more pain on oneself is only to complicate the things that need to be taken head on or the real issues at hand I am sorry I have no simply answer to the problems in which you or any of us face other than to say no matter how bad the situation may seem it could truly be worse. during your darkest moments one can and should only concentrate on the good asspects of ones life. Look at it this way for you to inflict more pain on yourself is to inflect it on the ones who you truly love and care for mainly Marco And lets be honest YOU BOTH NEED EACH OTHER in such a special way as I can't even imagine or begin to put into text. So if not to be strong for yourself than to be strong for him because he needs all of you...right now
Be strong because if you can't than niether can I.
Chynna
I apologize for my somewhat incoherant ramblings
[[[[Pam]]]]
To echo what others have said, you're beautiful and a great person and we don't want to lose you. I wish I had advice to offer about how to handle your ex, but do know that I care.
Chynna,
Thank you so very much for your post. I know that I have to think about the good things I have and know that my situation could be worse. My gosh...you have sure had your share of trials. Yet, you always have encouraging words and great advice for the people here at Susan's. What a class act you truly are. Thank you!!!
ap!sdn
Thanks for echoing what the others have said. I treasure your kind words because, at times, it is very hard to see that in myself.
:)
Pam,
I can't say it any better than the others have so just let me add my voice to theirs -
HANG IN THERE - WE NEED YOU HERE TOO ! !
helen
Hi Pam:
My name is Gill and I am Steph's spouse.
Sounds like you need a breather from all of this. Do you have somewhere where you can go for a couple of days? Somewhere to escape to where all you have to worry about is yourself and not the whole world?
This whole transition effects everyone and it isn't easy. You've lost a husband, family relations get strained as well as friendships. Though the kids are giving you a hard time, at least know and you are not "hiding" anything from them. The kids in all of this are the real victims here. While we all have choices on how we handle the situation, for SO's staying or leaving. The kids don't have a choice the "parent" is their parent forever. That's hard for them to deal with. That said, it breaks our heart when the kids are involved and we see them hurting (us, themselves).
Tell me, what do you like to do (forget about all of this that is going on). What do YOU like to do. Walking, gardening, sewing. Perhaps it is time to start thinking about those things that you can do for yourself. One thing I have learned trhough all of this is that you need to take time for yourself. It doesn't have to be a big thing. Where you live, does the city have a botanical garden. Go there enjoy the flowers, look at the trees. I mean really look at them. Soak in their colours, their strengths. Breathe deep. Sit on a park bench and just enjoy them. This sounds hoaky but it works.
Pam talk to us some more. We are here for you.
Gill
Gill,
Thank you for posting and your suggestions. Just a side note: not to sound wicked or anything, but losing my husband was the best thing that has happened in this whole situation. He is truly an evil person and he is doing everything he can to destroy me. He and my sister have consistently poisoned my kids minds toward me. It does hurt to see that they are using my kids as weapons. I feel so much like my hands are tied because I refuse to do that...I won't put my kids in the middle of this. I just hope and pray that first, my kids will come to the realization that I really love them and will never stop loving them; that I am their mother no matter what. I just can't be with their dad (he is abusive). Secondly, I need to come to a point of forgiveness toward my ex husband and my sister. I need to do that for me, whether they ask for it or not. I can't hang on to it. I am not even close to being there right now. I am so full of anger at this point, but I am in intensive therapy to develop healthy coping skills to work through this. I know staying angry is just letting my ex have the control, but I am working on it.
Now...the thing that I like doing to relax and "commune" with nature is go to the beach in the evening and watch the waves. It seems to remind me that there is something so much greater than my problems out there. I know that if God can make such a beautiful thing, He can get me through my trials. We do have botanical gardens fairly close to us. They are doing a big renovation project there right now. It would be nice to go check that out when they are done with it though.
Thanks again for your words,
Pam
*Hug* You have the right idea I think. Hang in there Pam.
;) As the saying goes, it will all come out in the wash...
(=
Hello Pam,
I'm really sorry to hear that you are going through such a rough patch. Children are impressionable at any age and if their fathers' lies are the only truth they think they know, then it is going to be rough going with them for awhile. What you may need to do will not be easy, but you should give them as much time and space they need until such a time comes where they will draw their own conclusions about what is right and what is wrong. I often have to remind the stauchest "Christians" that Jesus' commandment to us was to love one another and not to judge one another. Perhaps that reminder will eventually help them reconsider the problem they seem to have with you.
Please don't hurt yourself. I know from experience that physical pain doesn't alleviate mental anguish. And you really just end up hurting those that care about you, which is exactly what you're trying not to do. Also, I had an anti-depressant once cause me to become suicidal, so you may want to take note of your reactions to these medications that you've mentioned.
It's completely normal for even the best couples to have falling outs in times of stress. It's of the utmost importance that the both of you communicate your feelings to one another and don't shut each other out in an attempt to protect each other.
As far as forgivess goes, you're absolutely right. They don't have to accept your forgiveness, but you will feel better, and be the bigger person by granting it. I know you probably are sick of being the bigger person right now, because it seems to only get you walked on more and more, but it will work out in the end. People will realize that you are doing the mature, right, and respectable thing and that they are being cruel, unsympathetic, manipulative, and immature.
Gill gave you really good advice about getting out for awhile. Maybe you could also get out and meet some new friends. Then there will be others that see first hand the raw deal you've been given and maybe your antagonists will see them, too. People are always on better behavior when they think that others will see them in a poor light.
It is difficult to be comforting through a computer, but I hope that I can help. And even though I post a little erratically, I'm in your corner all the way, Pam!
Of course, it's even more difficult to be encouraging when you've already said it best yourself: What goes around, comes around! They'll get theirs eventually!
Bide your time and hold out hope,
Kelly
Quote from: angelsgirl on June 21, 2006, 07:54:05 PM
And even though I post a little erratically, I'm in your corner all the way, Pam!
Are you sure you didn't mean "sporadically", since you tend to give really good advice?
Melissa
Oops! Despite your claim about giving good advice, I apparently have grammar problems this evening! Sorry for the confusion!
No need for you to apologize. I should apologize for nitpicking. Sorry.
Melissa
Kelly,
Your words were a great help to me. Melissa is right. You do give very good advice. Everyone here is so supportive and that keeps me hanging on. I have to say, about Marco's and my relationship, even though I said I was upset with him in my original post, one of the things I absolutely love about him is that he is a "get-all-your-cards-out-on-the-table" kind of guy. We do communicate very well. He is so easy to talk to. He is very straight-forward and honest and he is a good listener as well. He may get mad right off the bat, but he always thinks about it and we're able to talk. The other night, when i was sooo upset, he just held me. I need that so much right now. It sickens me to hear the awful things my family says about Marco. I want them all to see him for the awesome person that he is; the way I see him. I agree with you fully on Jesus' most important commandments. First, we are to love God, second we are to love our neighbors. It doesn't say we are to love our neighbors if...it just says we are to love them as we love ourselves. As you can see, that is one I struggle with, but I'm working on it!
Thanks again! :)
Pam
Hi Pam:
My apologies for not reading previous posts and not being up-to-date on your situation. Yes from what you are describing loosing the ex is probably a good thing for you. Again my apologies if some of the text did not apply.
Have you been to the water yet? Try to get away for a bit for a breather, you need it. This is all so overwhelming. You are on the right track though in letting your kids know you love them and will always be there for them. Though they maybe angry with you, and perhaps they are angry at everyone because of all that is happening and you happen to be the person that is easiest for them to blame. They too have to get through that emotion. Through all that just let them know you love them and will be there. There will be light at the end of the tunnel.
Kids identify themselves through other kids (peers) so anything that will make them stand out in a crowd will make them retreat and lash out. Be patient and consistent in your messages to them.
Gill
Thank you Gill. I do want to go to the beach soon. The only draw back is that now that it is Summer, the beach is crawling with people to all hours of the night. Usually when I like to meditate down there is around the Fall or early spring when it seems more secluded. But just being there would help. This coming Saturday Marco and I are going to go to Avenal, California (I've lived here all my life and never heard of it), but that is where my dad is. He's my only biological family member that hasn't turned his back on me. I haven't seen him in over a year. That situation is an entire novel in itself, but this will be the first time Marco meets him. It will be nice to get out of the apartment and just drive.
I think I will go and send my daughter an email and let her know I love her.
Thanks again!
Pam
Pam, this is my first post in this forum, and of course neither of us know each other or anything about the other's lives or backgrounds. But I have found two things you and I have in common already.
We both love our men dearly and we both have had problems with self injury and suicidal ideation/attempts. I have a long time behind me in recovery from self injury, and I can tell you the underlying reason for you feeling you need to do this, isn't because of Marco or this situation. It is much deeper than that and the feeling are being stirred by the pain of watching your loved one hurt, and the pain that you go through walking beside him. I understand since you dont know me, if you're hesitant to accept my offer, but I am offering an ear and advice anytime you feel like harming yourself. You, as others have said, do not deserve more pain. Life and this society will provide you more than you can imagine and provide it free of charge. Still I tender my offer.
I am hoping I can learn from all of you, how to help my Love, Gregori. He has just joined the F2M section last night while I was at work.
He is at the end of his rope, and is shutting me out more all the time because he's said to me this morning, "how many times do you need to hear I'm miserable?" "how many times do you need to hear I hate having breasts?" He said, I've heard it so many times, I can only reassure him with the same things I've said time and time again, and he's still getting emotionally worse. So, I guess I need to know how I can help him at this point. I know all of you understand without me even having to speak, but I want to help, and I want him to be able to talk to me, even if it's painful. I want him to know I'm there, will always be there and will love him.
Please help me learn what to do?
Inga
Hello Inga!
My name is Kelly, and I am the SO of Little Lynn (who is MtF). I will do my best on this one:
If you want Gregori to know that you love him you'll just have to keep telling him, again and again and again that you do. Until it sinks in. Which can take a long time for some people, especially if they do not love themselves.
I don't know if he is already seeing a therapist, but if not, it would be a really good idea to find one (which from personal experience I understand is easier said than done). Another thing you can do for him, is to maybe sit down with him and discuss a plan of action that will lead to Gregori ultimately being happy (or at least comfortable) Sometimes just mapping out your goals step by step helps to relieve some of the distress of not already being there.
Example: 1) Begin researching therapists 2) Make an appointment with one 3) Follow up therapy with HRT
By breaking a large goal down into small, manageable goals it will seem less overwhelming in the long run. You can add deadlines to your goals if you really want to, but the number one rule with this is that you're allowed to worry only about each step at a time. You are also allowed to modify your steps as you go in case of unforseen circumstances. So this will give you and Gregori complete power over your situation and the joint effort should bring you two closer. Get it?
This worked for me, and I hope it will work for you and Gregori, too.
By the way, welcome to Susan's!
Hi Pam,
I know I have not been here as often as I was. Also It has been a while since I injected some in put on your life's events you have been dealing with. If I say something here that you disagree with just disregaurd it and take only what you feel works and is food for thought on how else to cope and identify your issues.
I hear when reading your post a couple issues you should look into.
1) You miss the mother to children connection you had with your children. Because this is such a vital part of our being.(women, mothers who have been and then find it stripped away) One suggestion might be to volunteer at a church daycare for now. You don't have to go into all you have been going through. You just need the connection of playing with and doing thingwith and for children. You need to feel the connection this is maybe a way to meet that need. Granted they are not your kids but the are children needing TLC and you have it to give. If not a church one a private one maybe through the parks and recreation programs through the summer are most all ways looking for people to help out. Even a Summer Bible School program would probably be more than happy for a helping hand.Your Library probably has a childrens reading program where you can read to small children. What ever avenue you find to meet this need it does two things. Volunteering is giving of ones self and transfering your concentration to that action is good for taking your mind off all the hurt you have been dealing with. A person needs this to heal from hurts too. They need to put it out of thier mind and heart. To really move on in life one often needs to start new beginnings with new things of this sort too.
2)Past multiple pains built up over years are often very hard to deal with even when a person leaves and seperates themselves from the one dishing out the abuse. When it was that extensive for that long it is only normal for it not to go away just because you moved that person out of your life as much as you could. Even though you feel it is the best benifit in loosing you ex... There is still a ripping and tearing in your being, a gieving of that loss even if he was bad to you. You had a life together for what it was worth. You had children together. There was a joining... There must be a severing of those bonds, regaurdless of how much hurt he caused you. The bonds were and are and will be there through those children connecting him to you still. Yes you have hate and anger and those are to be delt with seperately as we shared before in a previous post. It's the bonds you had all those years that you are going to have to deal with grief over.
3) Gill's suggestion for self indulging is so important! You need to take time for you in those ways and in pampering ways too. Take time for a hair or nails day. If you can't offord it right now because of the child support issues? Then with following Kelly's advice on making new friends set up some girl time in someone's home and do each other's nails. Shampoo each other's hair. Cook lunch or dinner for each other. (Sorry, Marco not you on this paticular time.) This is for getting to let your hair down with just another girl like you did in highschool time. Also add in a hobby of some sort sewing, knitting, painting, building something and making something usefull.
4) Yes I saved this one for last because it's hard to say the hurtful ones. It's just a thought that crossed my mind as I read through this thread of posts. And all your posts. Here goes...not sure just how it will come out. Where I'm coming from on this... when we find our life's partner somewhere not sure just where...maybe it's the stories and fairy tales... we get the idea that our partner is going to protect us and smight all the bad dragons in our life. Some how we think they are not going to let anything or anyone hurt us any more. They of all people are not supposed to hurt and abuse us in our fantacy image of this life's protector. Your marriage was not like that obivously. Your life with Marco is not like that either and can and will not be for reasons of social stigma and then of course your past marriage and all you bring into this relationship with Marco. Your children, your ex and his parents even your own family. Marco can not fix or protect you from it and this maybe a let down and underneath some of the friction that surfaces now and again. Then on the flip of that coin you can't protect him from any of all the ugly that is dished at Marco from all sides either. You probably feel inadiquit and quilty because of what someone you know says or does. One thing that has help me in the past is "Who's problem is it". I mean you have no controll over other people's mouths and what comes out of them. So there fore don't beat yourself up over those particular times. Only your own words and thoughts and feelings are you responsible for. Only what you do, can you fix if it needs fixing. So don't expect yourself to do more than you should or can. What you can change do so what you can't let it go. Marco knew or does by now what he was going to be facing... not that that will make any of the ugly any less ugly... but you have to move on and not keep missing the hurdle. Go around it if you need to but somehow don't stop and wollow there. It's not healthy as you well know.
Maybe a way to let out the anger you might try... get modeling clay dough. Make things and smash them when they are finished. Why clay dough? because you can use it over and over again. Why model or craft something because you are only being distructive to what you create and it punishes you for the hurt you feel you should have stopped long ago or have no other way of stopping now and think you should. Once you punish your self enough maybe the urge to hurt yourself physically won't be there any more.
Many people here have all ready said don't hurt yourself physically. I will say only this, does it fix the hurt or does it hurt just as bad as it did. Did it make it go away or are the issues still there to face anyway. Physically do only what will fix or resovle to where you can stand the issues. Become active in other's lives and problems making them easier for them and helping them somehow and you won't see your own as such a big mountain anymore. Marco's problems don't count in that step either. This will help on selfworth and the you'll see your to valuble to physically hurt yourself anymore. God doesn't make junk so you must be worth much more than you give yourself credit for. If you can't see Jesus doing it with you...don't do it.
We are leaving for back to the job site for Leah, but I'll try to look in on your post in the next 2 days or 3.
What works use, what doesn't through out and disregaurd like I said earlier.
Smiles, dear friend,
Peggiann
Peggiann:
I am so sorry that I did not catch this post sooner. My gosh, it has been here for almost a month! I really appreciate your advice and I do find all of it very applicable and appropriate. I haven't had contact with my sister for a while and after a big blow up yesterday, we have decided to meet for dinner on Tuesday. I am going very guarded because I am not really sure that I can trust her because she has been dishonest in the past, but I do want to hear what she has to say.
Thank you so much for taking so much time to offer great words of wisdom to me.
;D ;D
Pam
Not a problem Pam,
How was your dinner with your sister?
Hope all else is going better too.
Smiles,
Peggiann
Pam, I hope things are going better for you. Believe me, I can understand where you're at right now. Back in February of this year, I had what could definitely be considered a breakdown... I have been dealing with clinical depression for 10 years, and in February still had not gotten treatment, when I found out the person I had been dating and incredibly close to was a pedophile and compulsive liar. My whole world was destroyed. I cut myself numerous times, though I had not done that much since I was 17, when the depression was that bad before, and my best friend (who was with me when I discovered the devastating news) had to talk me down from trying to commit suicide (in all honesty, I just wanted to go to sleep and never think about the whole thing again, not die). But I went to the hospital, then to a psychiatrist, and after years of suffering in silence, I got on treatment for my depression. The initial changes took place in a matter of days, and with the support of my family and friends I got through the tough part. By a month later, I was excelling at school (was in my senior year of college) and so happy I couldn't imagine it. Now, six months later, I am doing quite well (despite constant struggles with my parents, as described in my other posts) emotionally, and have a very positive outlook for the future.
The point of all this is, it does get better. There is a light at the end of the tunnel, Pam, and you have many people out here in cyberspace who support you, as well as Marco, whom I can tell from his posts is a good man. The only other thing I can suggest that hasn't been mentioned (I don't think), since you're already in therapy, is that you maybe try to find a support group. I found that very helpful when dealing with my depression... sometimes the ability to commiserate is all you need (or it at least helps things along). In any case, hold on. Don't hurt yourself. You might try what I now do--- boxing. It's a great release, and you do get a bit of that pain that cutting provides, without the injury. Things will get better, though. Just remember you're important, and have great things to contribute to the world. You never know... it's always possible that the world would end without you in it. Anything is possible.
Rafe
looking forward to meeting you and Marco in October
Peggiann:
Thanks for asking about my sister. Things are going better and we are talking, but the dinner didn't work out because she is awaiting back surgery and is in a lot of pain. We have planned, though, to meet this coming Tuesday when I fly down here (So. Cal) for a court appearance. I will have a couple hours to kill in the airport and she is going to come sit with me. Hope things are going well with you and Leah. Are things settling down from your travels?
Rafe:
Wow. I almost cried. What a horrible thing you have gone through and yet you are such a compassionate and caring individual!! Depression can be such a debilitating thing and I feel that you can really understand me on this level. I have attended a support group, but with work and individual counseling, its hard to get into the regular groove, but it does help. Amy (she goes by Spike on here...Tino's fiance) and I have become really close and she is an awesome source of support to me. I like the boxing idea! That would be a great way to get out my aggression. I have a friend that goes to kick boxing classes at the city. Maybe I'll sign up with her next time around. Thanks again for the support and Marco and I are really looking forward to meeting you too.
;D ;D ;D
Pam