Hi there,
Let me tell you a bit about myself so you know where I'm coming from. I'm a hugely curious person. There is no subject that could really bore me. I could find a universe in a grain of sand and am perpetually fascinated by just about everything in life. I'm not transgendered, nor will I ever (for this life!) have the desire to be the opposite sex. That's not meant to be an offensive remark, by the way, just how I am - I'm sure you can relate to "just how I am". :)
Anyway, I love embracing the unknown, thus my username. If you watch Youtube, you might have seen the Calpernia Addams (who is also strikingly beautiful) video on Bad Questions. Seems to have gotten many different reactions - mine was laughing out loud. I loved it! Her style and wit had me rolling. While I realize she doesn't speak for all TG people everywhere, it made me insanely curious as to the motivations, desires, and general feeling in this lifestyle. It fascinates me. :laugh:
So I guess I have some "dumb" questions, as Calpernia would put it. Understand that I'm not coming from a place of disdain or even judgment. My motivation is curiosity and fascination with something that is completely out of my realm of experience. I have absolutely no judgment for anyone here. In fact, total acceptance of your decisions.
Okay, my questions. Note that in most of my examples, I've used MTF dispositions. You can change it to FTM if it fits your situation, or whatever you need.
1) Is there any way to describe why you wanted to become the opposite sex or want to? I realize that some desires and motivations simply aren't explainable, they're just THERE, strong and insistent, like a monsoon breaking down a straw door. I have my own desires as a man that can't be explained logically, so I understand if my question is moot or can't be answered. But it's out there anyhow.
2) What is the difference between transgendered, transsexual, transvestite, and... all those other profile names I saw when I signed up here? lol - I think one was androgyne or something. I know FTM is female to male, and vice versa, I just don't know the difference between all the other stuff, if any.
3) Is "transsexual" a taboo word, and is "transgendered" better? Kind of like "negro" is a bad word in some contexts - African American is more acceptable.
4) This is a loaded question somewhat... actually had to re-write this several times in order to ask it in a way I wanted. Let's say you are MTF TGered. How do you react to someone who sees you as 98% woman, but has that lingering "resistance" to the 2% "historic man"? Meaning, he knows you were once a man and might have reservations about being with you because, well... you were a guy once and he may think he's "gay" if he is with you?
Don't read into that last question - I'm not asking how to overcome one of my own obstacles! LOL! Again, I'm only curious about how one feels in this lifestyle.
5) Are there any MTFs in a relationship with FTMs?? ??? :o This is starting to confuse me the more I think about it, LOL!
6) What about the word "Hermaphrodite"? I heard a while back that that word isn't used anymore, or that "unisex" was more appropriate. I guess they are the lucky ones, hehehe.
7) If you were male and attracted to men before you "switched", did you consider yourself gay then, and do you now consider yourself hetero?
All of these questions have challenged my curiosity. This entire thing blows my mind in an awesome way. I love learning new things and your answers, even if they are rude or impatient, are welcomed totally. I hope you see my questions are coming from my heart and not from ignorance.
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
it made me insanely curious as to the motivations, desires, and general feeling in this lifestyle.
LOL, I promise you there are another 20 posters about to object to the dreaded
lifestyle word too as I type my own, lol...
It's not a LIFESTYLE!!!!!!!!!!! Ahem. Seriously. No more than your non-TS life is a "lifestyle." There's some lingering idea out there with a few people that TSs "do TS things," like get together in parks for sex or something. Ya gotta understand, saying I'm "transsexual" is like saying "I had chickenpox once." It's just a scientific label for someone who needs to, or has, changed sexes. I don't do "transsexual things." I live an ordinary life, about as plain vanilla as can be.
I'll admit that's not true for everyone. Some people claim "being a transsexual" as a form of identity. They're proud of it, and that's fine. But many of us just feel we're ordinary women and men post-transitioning, just with an unusual history in getting here. Transsexuality for me was a phase, a problem I overcame.
I posted recently that if you were to follow me around for a month with a camera to document "A Month In The Life of a Transsexual," you'd find it *incredibly* boring, lol. I'd just be doing the same things any woman does. You wouldn't notice anything "transsexual" about me or how I live my life.
Quote1) Is there any way to describe why you wanted to become the opposite sex or want to?
I really can't, not exactly. I'm fairly unique in the I resist the whole "I'm a woman inside!" argument. All I can say for sure is I've known I SHOULD have been born a girl from my earliest memories, from at least three or four.
Quote2) What is the difference between transgendered, transsexual, transvestite, and... all those other profile names I saw when I signed up here? lol - I think one was androgyne or something. I know FTM is female to male, and vice versa, I just don't know the difference between all the other stuff, if any.
Transsexuals are the only ones who identity as the sex opposite their birth.
Transgendered is an umbrella term that can encompass many people, but many transsexuals - including myself - don't feel we belong being included in it, as it mostly describes people who exhibit gender-variant behaviour (drag queens, crossdressing, gender queer, etc.).
Quote3) Is "transsexual" a taboo word, and is "transgendered" better? Kind of like "negro" is a bad word in some contexts - African American is more acceptable.
Transsexual isn't taboo, but again many transsexuals don't like being included in the term transgendered. And many transsexuals feel that even "transsexual" doesn't apply once they've transitioned.. they're just men and women after that.
The irony is that transsexuals mostly consider themselves to be PART of the "gender binary," not rebels against it. We're not trying to bend gender rules or roles, we're not trying to make waves or change society's concepts of male or female. We're just trying to seamlessly blend back into society as the men and women we feel we are.
Quote4) How do you react to someone who sees you as 98% woman, but has that lingering "resistance" to the 2% "historic man"?
Dunno yet. Haven't been intimate with a man. I can certainly understand that reluctance though.
Quote7) If you were male and attracted to men before you "switched", did you consider yourself gay then, and do you now consider yourself hetero?
I'm a bit odd here too. I wasn't really interested in men until I started transitioning. I wasn't really interested in women EITHER, so it's confusing, label-wise. Now that I've transitioned though, I label myself a straight woman.
~Kate~
Quote from: Kate on May 16, 2008, 11:11:21 AM
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
it made me insanely curious as to the motivations, desires, and general feeling in this lifestyle.
LOL, I promise you there are another 20 posters about to object to the dreaded lifestyle word too as I type my own, lol...
It's not a LIFESTYLE!!!!!!!!!!! Ahem. Seriously. No more than your non-TS life is a "lifestyle." There's some lingering idea out there with a few people that TSs "do TS things," like get together in parks for sex or something. Ya gotta understand, saying I'm "transsexual" is like saying "I had chickenpox once." It's just a scientific label for someone who needs to, or has, changed sexes. I don't do "transsexual things." I live an ordinary life, about as plain vanilla as can be.
Okay, it's not a lifestyle. It's your life. I was coming more from the place of overall activity. I guess "mindset" or "life path" would be more appropriate. At the same time, I adopted proper diet and exercise years ago and I consider them a part of my new identity. I call that my "lifestyle." But I see what you mean. It's not like an activity you put into a box or hang up on your coat rack.
Quote from: Kate on May 16, 2008, 11:11:21 AMI really can't, not exactly. I'm fairly unique in the I resist the whole "I'm a woman inside!" argument.
I don't know this argument. What is it?
Quote from: Kate on May 16, 2008, 11:11:21 AMThe irony is that transsexuals mostly consider themselves to be PART of the "gender binary," not rebels against it.
I don't know what this is either - gender binary.
Do you get offended by the questions outlined in Calpernia's 20 Dumb Questions video?
First, I'd like to say thank you for having such an open mind. I speak for myself, and I'm sure many others here, that the genuine curiosity to understand and sympathize (maybe even to try and empathize) is greatly appreciated. Second, I preface all this with my right to edit my answers, for brevity, grammatical errors, clarity, or facts.... I know my community, but I'm capable of error. :)
1) Is there any way to describe why you wanted to become the opposite sex or want to?
I've been asked this often and to be honest, for me anyway, it's just inexplicable. I can only answer the question with another question--how do you know? How do you know you are a man? How do you know you're happy? Its something you probably haven't previously asked yourself. It's an almost comical question, isn't it? Now, imagine you kept your mind, nothing else changes except tomorrow, you're in a woman's body. You have your years of life prior to tell you something is definately wrong--but what if you didn't? How would you respond? Confusion? Denial? Resistance? Would you just try to forget such a silly incongruence and live your life? But if the "womanly" things didn't come natural, would you conform or resist the '"norm?" That's what I dealt with...
2) What is the difference...
Know there's some overlap, and there's no solid black and white, so for conversation's sake:
Transgender --The "umbrella" term for all things trans (nontypical gender polarized)
Transsexual -- Taking steps to transition from one gender to another (hormones/surgery/etc)
Transvestite/CD-- Typically one gender (more often heterosexual in their born gender) dressing as the other
Gender Queer/Andro -- For one reason or another don't strongly associate with one gender or the other, instead of trying to "be" one gender, their don't relate to either
3) Is "transsexual" a taboo word, and is "transgendered" better?
It's subjective. I know some that hate the word "transsexual", but as a general rule, as I understand it (I'm a journalist, we're supposed to scrutinize these things, but even I can get mixed up), one can be transgender and you are a transgender male or transgender female. You're not a "transgendered female" or "transgendered male," and you cannot be be "a transgender." It's a noun modifier and not a noun. Kind of like, you can be gay, or a gay male, but not a "gaied (LoL) male" or "a gay".
Wow, sorry...had to step away so I did this as two parts...these are quite the questions you have here! LoL
4) How do you react to someone who sees you as 98% woman, but has that lingering "resistance" to the 2% "historic man"?
What can I do? I have to respect his wishes! I've met guys, after disclosure who have said: "Good luck, but I'm not comfortable with it." I bid him farewell and we went our ways. I've met guys who, after a bit of a struggle, genuinely saw the person they fell in love with and stuck around (difficult to conceptualize, but it has happened). I don't have the time nor the patience to twist someone's arm to stick around. :) The truth is, I WAS once a physical boy... I've always believed in disclosure. You win some and you lose some. I couldn't go on keeping such a fundamental "secret." In the end, I think there was a certain respect for the courage/honesty to disclose in my relationships.
5) Are there any MTFs in a relationship with FTMs??
Yes. LoL. Any combination of gender/transgender you can come up with. It's been done.
6) What about the word "Hermaphrodite"?
Hermaphrodite was used as a term for someone who was born with both physical sex organs. You can use your own imagination as the condition came in many combinations... it has fallen out of favor for the term intersex.
7) If you were male and attracted to men before you [transitioned, LoL], did you consider yourself gay then, and do you now consider yourself hetero?
Actually, I used used the term "gay" when I first came out as a way of easing the transition of a concept inherently difficult for most people to begin to comprehend. As they saw me change, people were more inclined to be OK with it. It's easier to understand. "Oh, that's just [boy name], he's gay." Easier for them, it was. Those very close to me knew I considered myself "straight." Not because I didn't like the gay moniker, nor did I mean to marginalize it, but because, for some reason, it didn't really reflect me (see answer 1). I wouldn't mind accepting the moniker... I don't think it's a horrible, dirty word I had to avoid... but it just wasn't "right" (see answer 1, LoL).
8) I don't know what this is either - gender binary.
It's the belief that gender is either Male or Female with no inbetween... I say...there's ALWAYS a gray.
I hope this helped a little. :)
Hi Embrace,
First of all, I applaud you and the way you've asked these questions. You come across as someone who is genuinely interested in learning about people. Please understand, and sure if you read through even a tiny portion of the comments in Calpernia's video you get what I'm talking about, that we, as a community, face a lot of hatred and bigotry. So, for you to come in and ask genuine questions with the purpose of learning, hats off to you :)
In case anyone didn't see it, it's here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjqsB1huDxg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjqsB1huDxg)
Ok, so, here goes. Realize everyone's answers will vary. If you read many of the postings and blogs on this site, you will answer most of your questions, but I'm sure you'll get many responses in here.
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
1) Is there any way to describe why you wanted to become the opposite sex or want to? I realize that some desires and motivations simply aren't explainable, they're just THERE, strong and insistent, like a monsoon breaking down a straw door. I have my own desires as a man that can't be explained logically, so I understand if my question is moot or can't be answered. But it's out there anyhow.
From age 5 I have known that on the inside, my brain was female. THAT'S the part I can't explain to you. I don't know why it is. My brother is 11 months younger than me, he's married with a kid and he's much, much different than me. Same parents, same household, etc. As I grew older, especially pre and a little post puberty, I realized that this was going to be a really tough thing to deal with and that it probably wasn't going to go away.
It's the way I perceive myself, the way that I relate to others, the way I communicate with them, the thoughts that I have, etc. They've never, from as far back as I can remember, ever been male. But, in the end, like you can't explain why you see yourself as "male," I have a hard time explaining why I see myself as "female." It's not the sex organ that defines male/female, it's the mind and then you do what you need to do with the body you have. Imagine if you can what it would be like to drop your significant other's (assuming you are a heterosexual person with no gender issues) brain into your body. That's the best I can do to tell you how this feels. How would she go about her day (or he), how would that feel?
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
2) What is the difference between transgendered, transsexual, transvestite, and... all those other profile names I saw when I signed up here? lol - I think one was androgyne or something. I know FTM is female to male, and vice versa, I just don't know the difference between all the other stuff, if any.
You should visit our Wiki for this. It's located at: http://susans.org/wiki/Main_Page (http://susans.org/wiki/Main_Page)
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
3) Is "transsexual" a taboo word, and is "transgendered" better? Kind of like "negro" is a bad word in some contexts - African American is more acceptable.
No, it's not taboo at all. Transgender is an umbrella terms encompassing many different gender designations. I don't really see a lot that TS have in common with the other categories under TG, but I'm sure people will talk about that. I will tell you that the word that is basically like the "N" word or other words that denote negative sterotypes would be "->-bleeped-<-." I use the term ->-bleeped-<- when I'm talking to my closest trans friends, much in the way that certain ethnic groups might refer to themselves, but only in their group or clique. If someone outside of my group of friends called my a "->-bleeped-<-" I would be HIGHLY insulted. Many of us are that way, but many others HATE that words. I fall in the first category.
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM4) This is a loaded question somewhat... actually had to re-write this several times in order to ask it in a way I wanted. Let's say you are MTF TGered. How do you react to someone who sees you as 98% woman, but has that lingering "resistance" to the 2% "historic man"? Meaning, he knows you were once a man and might have reservations about being with you because, well... you were a guy once and he may think he's "gay" if he is with you?
Don't read into that last question - I'm not asking how to overcome one of my own obstacles! LOL! Again, I'm only curious about how one feels in this lifestyle.
Ok, first, it's not a "lifestyle," it's our life. It's at the core of who we are and for most of us, it's been there forever. Speaking from a transsexual standpoint, I've always been this way. There isn't a situation where I look at myself and say "oh, that's Meghan" and "oh, that's my boy self" really. The appearance might be a little different, but I'm the same person with the same thoughts. Crossdressers, and hopefully some will answer, I think could be considered a lifestyle, but I don't know. Just speaking for me and my relationship with my life.
Ok, so the 2%. Honestly Embrace (what's your name???), I worry about this. I worry that I may end up living the rest of my life alone for this reason. Any guy that would take the time to get to know me, spend time talking to me, getting to know me, he'll know there's nothing at all "male" about me. To be viewed as "male" because of a body part or DNA instead of for me, my mind, who I am other than a physical body part or DNA...it's just sad. Now, I TOTALLY understand that to most straight guys, the thought of dating TS does not even compute.
We have to watch out for guys who have their own gender issues, guys who view us as a "fetish" and guys who just generally don't love us OTHER than the fact that we are TS. In a way, they love us for
what we are, not
who we are, if that makes sense. I hope that some day I can meet a nice guy who loves me for who I am, doesn't feel "weird" or "freaked out" when I tell him that I was born male, because I WILL tell him, I don't believe in keeping that from a partner (people vary on that as you'll see) guy. So, keep your fingers crossed for me ;D
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
5) Are there any MTFs in a relationship with FTMs?? ??? :o This is starting to confuse me the more I think about it, LOL!
There are, even on this board. TS are generally very, very understanding about the issues we face. It's a heterosexual relationship, man and woman. Don't think in terms of what people were born with as far as body parts, think of how they live their life. That should help clarify it. A MTF TS who likes women is hetero. A MTF TS who likes women is lesbian. And of course there are a million differences in there, lol.
It's very, very important to remember that
gender and
sexual preference are two totally different things. Very, very different.
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
6) What about the word "Hermaphrodite"? I heard a while back that that word isn't used anymore, or that "unisex" was more appropriate. I guess they are the lucky ones, hehehe.
Typically, the word used is "intersexual," again, the wiki has a lot of informative articles to guide your understanding of these terms.
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM7) If you were male and attracted to men before you "switched", did you consider yourself gay then, and do you now consider yourself hetero?
I was when I was right at puberty, I had boy crushes and kissed a boy, he was my first kiss ever. [
Ask her to tell you about the JD and Nicole story! It's a good one! - Cali] I saw a few kids who we knew were gay getting beat up and teased every day so I did what I had to do to survive. I went along and pretended to be into girls. I love girls so much. As friends. I was married twice, obviously divorced due to gender issues. It's tough to stay married when you don't view your "husband" as more than a best friend, a girlfriend basically, and on top of that, he never has sex with you. I'd look at girls and think "I want to BE her" not "I want her." Lol, I wouldn't know what to do if I had her, as proven by my past.
I was not gay and I'm not gay now. Gay to me means a guy attracted to another guy. I'm not a guy. It would be impossible for me to be in a relationship with a gay guy. Why? Because guys like guys, not girls. I am everything a gay guy doesn't like. I need a regular, heterosexual guy with no gender issues to be in a relationship with. I don't want to help someone through transition, I want to be done with this and move on with my life.
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AMAll of these questions have challenged my curiosity. This entire thing blows my mind in an awesome way. I love learning new things and your answers, even if they are rude or impatient, are welcomed totally. I hope you see my questions are coming from my heart and not from ignorance.
Again Embrace, and sorry to write a book here, I figured I'd be as descriptive as possible for you. If you ever want to talk about any of this further, just let me know. I'm always up for helping someone understand gender stuff a little better when I can. Take care, thanks for being you ;) Meghan
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 11:36:51 AM
Okay, it's not a lifestyle. It's your life. I was coming more from the place of overall activity. I guess "mindset" or "life path" would be more appropriate. At the same time, I adopted proper diet and exercise years ago and I consider them a part of my new identity. I call that my "lifestyle." But I see what you mean. It's not like an activity you put into a box or hang up on your coat rack.
True. It's not even my "life" though. The diet you mention takes effort. It's something you "do." It's an activity. And like you said, it's part of your identity.
Put it this way: for a crossdresser, it IS an activity. Crossdressing is something they DO now and then for various reasons, just like your diet. It's like saying "I'm a hunter" or "I'm a football player." The activity IS the label. When a crossdresser throws on a skirt, they're well-aware that they've done so... since that's the whole point. I know many CDrs feel more at home and comfortable in women's clothing, but STILL... it's a conscious activity.
But changing your sex is sorta like having had the flu: once your over it, it's forgotten. Done. Just back to a normal life. You're not "doing a surviving the flu lifestyle." You just forget about it and move on.
I AM Kate now. There's no alternative. Whatever I wear, whatever I do, wherever I go... I'm still Kate. It's not a costume I can take off or role I play now and then. I can't "do it" OR "not do it." It just is ;)
Quote
Quote from: Kate on May 16, 2008, 11:11:21 AMI really can't, not exactly. I'm fairly unique in the I resist the whole "I'm a woman inside!" argument.
I don't know this argument. What is it?
Many transsexuals say that they have a female mind, a female soul, a female identity... and that's why they had to transition: to make they're body match their mind.
QuoteI don't know what this is either - gender binary.
The idea embraced by society, rightly or wrongly, that the two sexes are fairly well-defined and distinct from one another... and should stay that way.
The funny thing is "normal" people often see transsexuals as challenging that notion, as if we WANT to be gender rebels and bend the rules... where in fact many of us are doing everything we can to OBEY them, and to fit within the expectations of both society and our own self-perceptions for what a "normal" man or woman is.
IMHO, that's what separates transsexuals from pretty much drag queens, transvestites, transgenders, gender queers, homosexuals, androgynes, etc... all of whom seek acceptance and tolerance for pushing the existing gender boundaries, for "breaking" the existing norms.
In contrast, transsexuals often *embrace* those norms... but feel that we were stuck on the wrong side of that binary fence.
QuoteDo you get offended by the questions outlined in Calpernia's 20 Dumb Questions video?
I was more offended by her being so insulting, demeaning and condescending to the people she felt frustrated with.
People generally aren't being mean when they ask "dumb questions," they simply don't know any better. Being transsexual (or transgender) often forces us to become experts on the subject, lol... so I remind myself that "normal" people generally don't have any motivation to learn all these fine distinctions. For most people, gays = transsexuals = crossdressing = gender queer = etc. It's just NORMAL OR NOT, when in fact many of those "groups" have little in common with one another EXCEPT that society tends to pick on them equally ;)
~Kate~
Quote from: Kate on May 16, 2008, 12:15:39 PM
I was more offended by her being so insulting, demeaning and condescending to the people she felt frustrated with.
~Kate~
I don't believe that this was originally posted to be seen by a large audience outside of TS, I could be wrong, but when it first came out months and months ago, it was nowhere near as popular. It got picked up by Youtube and put on the title page. Charlotte, if you are reading this, any idea what happened there since you are THE youtube expert :)
When I saw it the first time I chuckled, as I think many people would inside the community, but I was completely horrified when I saw it on the front page of youtube knowing the comments would be what they were.
Quote from: Kate on May 16, 2008, 12:15:39 PM
The funny thing is "normal" people often see transsexuals as challenging that notion, as if we WANT to be gender rebels and bend the rules... where in fact many of us are doing everything we can to OBEY them, and to fit within the expectations of both society and our own self-perceptions for what a "normal" man or woman is.
IMHO, that's what separates transsexuals from pretty much drag queens, transvestites, transgenders, gender queers, homosexuals, androgynes, etc... all of whom seek acceptance and tolerance for pushing the existing gender boundaries, for "breaking" the existing norms.
In contrast, transsexuals often *embrace* those norms... but feel that we were stuck on the wrong side of that binary fence.
~Kate~
Eloquently put and impeccably articulate!
Bravissimo, Kate! Bravissimo!
I'd like to echo Everything Kate has said so far. Her answers should be on the home page. That is some seriously good stuff and I've been dying to read those words.
Quote from: MeghanAndrews on May 16, 2008, 12:36:40 PM
Quote from: Kate on May 16, 2008, 12:15:39 PM
I was more offended by her being so insulting, demeaning and condescending to the people she felt frustrated with.
~Kate~
I don't believe that this was originally posted to be seen by a large audience outside of TS..
I agree with you both. I'm certain people mean no harm in asking their questions (as painfully typical as they may be), it's a part of coming out. You don't do it once: You do it over, and over, and over again. It may be old hat to you, but it's fascinatingly new to everyone else.
That said... Callie's a sweetheart. I genuinely believe it was meant to be an inside chuckle amongst all of us.
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AM
First, I'd like to say thank you for having such an open mind. I speak for myself, and I'm sure many others here, that the genuine curiosity to understand and sympathize (maybe even to try and empathize) is greatly appreciated. Second, I preface all this with my right to edit my answers, for brevity, grammatical errors, clarity, or facts.... I know my community, but I'm capable of error. :)
You're welcome. And I accepted it from the very beginning, right when I saw it. It wasn't a question of trying to accept who you are. It was more the intent to immerse myself in something (as much as I can mentally sitting in front of a keyboard) almost totally alien to me without any judgment or derision.
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AM1) Is there any way to describe why you wanted to become the opposite sex or want to?
I've been asked this often and to be honest, for me anyway, it's just inexplicable. I can only answer the question with another question--how do you know? How do you know you are a man? How do you know you're happy? Its something you probably haven't previously asked yourself. It's an almost comical question, isn't it? Now, imagine you kept your mind, nothing else changes except tomorrow, you're in a woman's body. You have your years of life prior to tell you something is definately wrong--but what if you didn't? How would you respond? Confusion? Denial? Resistance? Would you just try to forget such a silly incongruence and live your life? But if the "womanly" things didn't come natural, would you conform or resist the '"norm?" That's what I dealt with...
Yes, this is what I thought. There is no real way to put on the table why you feel a certain way. I am a man and have "manly" desires. I suppose in this day and age of scientific indexing, reasoning and analysis (combined with intolerance and expectation), "normal" people want to know the reasons why for everything. "You were born a BOY - WHY can't you just be a boy?" To me, this is a pointless question. Accept. My question was asking more in the vein of total curiosity, which I'm glad you appreciate. :)
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AM2) What is the difference...
Know there's some overlap, and there's no solid black and white, so for conversation's sake:
Transgender --The "umbrella" term for all things trans (nontypical gender polarized)
Transsexual -- Taking steps to transition from one gender to another (hormones/surgery/etc)
Transvestite/CD-- Typically one gender (more often heterosexual in their born gender) dressing as the other
Gender Queer/Andro -- For one reason or another don't strongly associate with one gender or the other, instead of trying to "be" one gender, their don't relate to either
Okay, thanks for that. I'll try to be mindful of the terms.
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AM3) Is "transsexual" a taboo word, and is "transgendered" better?
It's subjective. I know some that hate the word "transsexual", but as a general rule, as I understand it (I'm a journalist, we're supposed to scrutinize these things, but even I can get mixed up), one can be transgender and you are a transgender male or transgender female. You're not a "transgendered female" or "transgendered male," and you cannot be be "a transgender." It's a noun modifier and not a noun. Kind of like, you can be gay, or a gay male, but not a "gaied (LoL) male" or "a gay".
Oh whoops, lol. Thanks for "informaied" me. :D
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AMWow, sorry...had to step away so I did this as two parts...these are quite the questions you have here! LoL
Yeah, I tried to be sensitive cuz since this is so new to me I don't know how people would react to something innocent I would say.
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AM4) How do you react to someone who sees you as 98% woman, but has that lingering "resistance" to the 2% "historic man"?
What can I do? I have to respect his wishes! I've met guys, after disclosure who have said: "Good luck, but I'm not comfortable with it." I bid him farewell and we went our ways. I've met guys who, after a bit of a struggle, genuinely saw the person they fell in love with and stuck around (difficult to conceptualize, but it has happened). I don't have the time nor the patience to twist someone's arm to stick around. :) The truth is, I WAS once a physical boy... I've always believed in disclosure. You win some and you lose some. I couldn't go on keeping such a fundamental "secret." In the end, I think there was a certain respect for the courage/honesty to disclose in my relationships.
You lead a massively interesting life. :)
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AM5) Are there any MTFs in a relationship with FTMs??
Yes. LoL. Any combination of gender/transgender you can come up with. It's been done.
:o My mind goes in many directions at once, so I can imagine a lot of things. heheh
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AM
7) If you were male and attracted to men before you [transitioned, LoL], did you consider yourself gay then, and do you now consider yourself hetero?
Actually, I used used the term "gay" when I first came out as a way of easing the transition of a concept inherently difficult for most people to begin to comprehend. As they saw me change, people were more inclined to be OK with it. It's easier to understand. "Oh, that's just [boy name], he's gay." Easier for them, it was. Those very close to me knew I considered myself "straight." Not because I didn't like the gay moniker, nor did I mean to marginalize it, but because, for some reason, it didn't really reflect me (see answer 1). I wouldn't mind accepting the moniker... I don't think it's a horrible, dirty word I had to avoid... but it just wasn't "right" (see answer 1, LoL).
In other words, you were a woman trapped in a man's body. Your ESSENCE is feminine. In an ideal world, that's all people would see.
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AM8) I don't know what this is either - gender binary.
It's the belief that gender is either Male or Female with no inbetween... I say...there's ALWAYS a gray.
That song "The Beauty of Gray" is a nice one. Preoccupation with black and white only, on all levels, is clinical insanity.
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AMI hope this helped a little. :)
Yes, you did, very much.
I will answer all of the people who have responded, just give me a little time.
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
1) Is there any way to describe why you wanted to become the opposite sex or want to? I realize that some desires and motivations simply aren't explainable, they're just THERE, strong and insistent, like a monsoon breaking down a straw door. I have my own desires as a man that can't be explained logically, so I understand if my question is moot or can't be answered. But it's out there anyhow.
I didn't 'want' to become the 'opposite sex.' I see the sexes as a continuum to tell you the truth, lost of feminine and masculine traits spread all over the human genome. To argue 'opposite' seems to me kind of difficult -- opposite of who or what? I think what you want from me may be this. I tend to fall in the more feminine range of the gender-sphere (or circle.) Always have. I'm not sure what would be opposite of that. I suppose 'more masculine?'
Like Kate, I had a male body morphology. But, unlike Kate believes, I have always been female at my deepest 'brain' level. Or, I believe that anyway. New research definitely suggests something like that is likely with many of us. So, yes, please think of me as a woman. I think of myself as having always been 'a woman.'
Anyhow, no, not a 'lifestyle,' a life. I'm a woman. (Period) I do tend to accept much of the binary for myself. I am also more than willing to support my friends and acquaintances to break the binary. I'd like them to be comfortable as well in the world we all live in. I don't find the binary to be a pillar of existence and so, breaking it into multiple shards doesn't particularly bother me anymore. Once it did.
You might do a mind-experiment and imagine what it would be like for you to wake up in the morning with breasts, say 40DD and a vagina. How do you suppose you might react? What might you think. What might you want to do? Would it change your life and self-perception in any way? Just think about it.
Quote2) What is the difference between transgendered, transsexual, transvestite, and... all those other profile names I saw when I signed up here? lol - I think one was androgyne or something. I know FTM is female to male, and vice versa, I just don't know the difference between all the other stuff, if any.
TG covers everyone who has an unusual gender orientation, who 'violates' the binary either in their own minds or the mind's of others.
FTM & MTF are transsexuals. We deep body-brain dysmorphias. We tend to be treated with hormones and surgeries to bring our bodies in line with our brains. We tend to be the problem-children of TG coalitions because many of us decline to be 'lumped' with CDs, DKs & DQs, GQs, TVs, Androgynes and whatever other variations might be lurking. Some TSes refuse to be 'lumped' with gays and lesbians and bi-sexuals as well. They don't like to believe that there is truly safety in numbers. ;) Sometimes they seem to like to pretend that no one else is 'real.' :laugh: :laugh:
DKs and DQs are drag kings and queens. They mostly appear women as men and men as women for entertainment, although some decide later they are TS and pursue genital reconstruction surgeries. Calpurnia was an example of that. We have an MTF here who does drag-king shows.
GQs are genderqueers or gender-benders etc. They generally have a discomfort with the perceived binary and are mostly interested in defying the cultural mores concerning gender-differentiation of clothing and accesories, like make-up, etc.
CDs are Cross-dressers who generally dress on occasion in the other end of the accepted binary to allow their 'feminine' or 'masculine' aspects of self to gain relief. Some CDs decide they are TS and also wind-up having GRS.
Androgynes live somewhere in the middle, generally neither female or male but usually keeping the genitalia they were born with. They dress how they feel often in a mixture of culturally accepted binary styles. Some of them decide to transition, some started thinking they were Ts and changed their minds at some point in transition. Usually they tend to be the easiest-going of us all.
Quote3) Is "transsexual" a taboo word, and is "transgendered" better? Kind of like "negro" is a bad word in some contexts - African American is more acceptable.
Depends on who you talk with. I prefer TS to describe my history. I am female and prefer that people see and call me that. Except for the exception below, they do. I have no problem with using TG to describe a coalition of people. Nor do I have problems iding people the way they wish to be ided. For instance, I call Kate, Kate and Meghan, Meghan. ;)
My Women's Issues prof last semester preferred everyone used TG. She's an out lesbian and active in LBGT education and causes.
Quote4) This is a loaded question somewhat... actually had to re-write this several times in order to ask it in a way I wanted. Let's say you are MTF TGered. How do you react to someone who sees you as 98% woman, but has that lingering "resistance" to the 2% "historic man"? Meaning, he knows you were once a man and might have reservations about being with you because, well... you were a guy once and he may think he's "gay" if he is with you?
Strangely enough, I haven't had any of that lately. When I first started I outed myself to an entire group (congregation) of people. I would never do that again. My feelings about many of them are problematic and they are nice people. For many of them it didn't make any difference whatesoever, as far as I can tell. Others? There's discomfort on both sides.
Quote5) Are there any MTFs in a relationship with FTMs?? ???
Yes.
Others who could or would be and vice versa. There are also MTFs and FTMs together with one another, etc etc. It's not a 'sexual' condition. Sexual orientation plays almost no role except in sexual attractions. I'm bi, or maybe even poly. I'd be willing to have a loving, committed relationship with a human being, if I didn't already have that.
Quote6) What about the word "Hermaphrodite"? I heard a while back that that word isn't used anymore, or that "unisex" was more appropriate. I guess they are the lucky ones, hehehe.
Intersexed I believe is the word you are looking for.
Quote7) If you were male and attracted to men before you "switched", did you consider yourself gay then, and do you now consider yourself hetero?
I consider myself bi. I am attracted to whomever I am attracted to. Whomever I love. I could be attracted to males and have been, but currently I am in a committed lesbian relationship with another woman. And I am planning to stay with her for the rest of my life.
But if situations were to change I can easily imagine being attracted to a man (probably FTM, but maybe a genetic male as well, provided he met some other criteria I find important and having a penis is not one of those. :laugh: :laugh: ) Or I can imagine being with another woman, cis or transsexual. I can imagine being committed with an androgyne. I suppose when i fall in love I fall in love with a person rather than their genitalia. Ya know?
QuoteAll of these questions have challenged my curiosity. This entire thing blows my mind in an awesome way. I love learning new things and your answers, even if they are rude or impatient, are welcomed totally. I hope you see my questions are coming from my heart and not from ignorance.
I'm glad you are challenged, Embrace. I hope all of our various takes will be helpful for you to see that there are really no easy answers when it comes to human being. And you, of course bring us another 'different' take on human being yourself. Welcome to Susan's.
Nichole
Quote from: MeghanAndrews on May 16, 2008, 11:40:35 AM
Hi Embrace,
First of all, I applaud you and the way you've asked these questions. You come across as someone who is genuinely interested in learning about people. Please understand, and sure if you read through even a tiny portion of the comments in Calpernia's video you get what I'm talking about, that we, as a community, face a lot of hatred and bigotry. So, for you to come in and ask genuine questions with the purpose of learning, hats off to you :)
Thank you. Embracing the new is it's own reward. And you know what - because they are bigoted and hateful, they will NEVER get to know the beauty you are. That is the worst punishment for them.
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AMIn case anyone didn't see it, it's here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjqsB1huDxg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjqsB1huDxg)
Ok, so, here goes. Realize everyone's answers will vary. If you read many of the postings and blogs on this site, you will answer most of your questions, but I'm sure you'll get many responses in here.
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
1) Is there any way to describe why you wanted to become the opposite sex or want to? I realize that some desires and motivations simply aren't explainable, they're just THERE, strong and insistent, like a monsoon breaking down a straw door. I have my own desires as a man that can't be explained logically, so I understand if my question is moot or can't be answered. But it's out there anyhow.
From age 5 I have known that on the inside, my brain was female. THAT'S the part I can't explain to you. I don't know why it is. My brother is 11 months younger than me, he's married with a kid and he's much, much different than me. Same parents, same household, etc. As I grew older, especially pre and a little post puberty, I realized that this was going to be a really tough thing to deal with and that it probably wasn't going to go away.
It's the way I perceive myself, the way that I relate to others, the way I communicate with them, the thoughts that I have, etc. They've never, from as far back as I can remember, ever been male. But, in the end, like you can't explain why you see yourself as "male," I have a hard time explaining why I see myself as "female." It's not the sex organ that defines male/female, it's the mind and then you do what you need to do with the body you have. Imagine if you can what it would be like to drop your significant other's (assuming you are a heterosexual person with no gender issues) brain into your body. That's the best I can do to tell you how this feels. How would she go about her day (or he), how would that feel?
Seems that our world doesn't want to let go of the idea that there may be no answers. "There MUST be a reason for everything! We must find it! Then we can classify them! And if we can't find the answer, then... we can classify them!" lol
World doesn't want to accept things it doesn't understand... but I'm preaching to the choir here.
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
2) What is the difference between transgendered, transsexual, transvestite, and... all those other profile names I saw when I signed up here? lol - I think one was androgyne or something. I know FTM is female to male, and vice versa, I just don't know the difference between all the other stuff, if any.
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AMYou should visit our Wiki for this. It's located at: http://susans.org/wiki/Main_Page (http://susans.org/wiki/Main_Page)
Ok, thanks, will check it out.
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
3) Is "transsexual" a taboo word, and is "transgendered" better? Kind of like "negro" is a bad word in some contexts - African American is more acceptable.
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AMNo, it's not taboo at all. Transgender is an umbrella terms encompassing many different gender designations. I don't really see a lot that TS have in common with the other categories under TG, but I'm sure people will talk about that. I will tell you that the word that is basically like the "N" word or other words that denote negative sterotypes would be "->-bleeped-<-." I use the term ->-bleeped-<- when I'm talking to my closest trans friends, much in the way that certain ethnic groups might refer to themselves, but only in their group or clique. If someone outside of my group of friends called my a "->-bleeped-<-" I would be HIGHLY insulted. Many of us are that way, but many others HATE that words. I fall in the first category.
From what I've read so far (yours included), it sounds like a matter of personal taste and context. The "T" word - I've never even said it. I saw it on one of those awful exploitation sex sites, though. It has been eliminated from my vocab. :)
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM4) This is a loaded question somewhat... actually had to re-write this several times in order to ask it in a way I wanted. Let's say you are MTF TGered. How do you react to someone who sees you as 98% woman, but has that lingering "resistance" to the 2% "historic man"? Meaning, he knows you were once a man and might have reservations about being with you because, well... you were a guy once and he may think he's "gay" if he is with you?
Don't read into that last question - I'm not asking how to overcome one of my own obstacles! LOL! Again, I'm only curious about how one feels in this lifestyle.
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AMOk, first, it's not a "lifestyle," it's our life. It's at the core of who we are and for most of us, it's been there forever. Speaking from a transsexual standpoint, I've always been this way. There isn't a situation where I look at myself and say "oh, that's Meghan" and "oh, that's my boy self" really. The appearance might be a little different, but I'm the same person with the same thoughts. Crossdressers, and hopefully some will answer, I think could be considered a lifestyle, but I don't know. Just speaking for me and my relationship with my life.
Yeah, as Kate pointed out it's not a lifestyle. Just who you are.
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AMOk, so the 2%. Honestly Embrace (what's your name???), I worry about this. I worry that I may end up living the rest of my life alone for this reason. Any guy that would take the time to get to know me, spend time talking to me, getting to know me, he'll know there's nothing at all "male" about me. To be viewed as "male" because of a body part or DNA instead of for me, my mind, who I am other than a physical body part or DNA...it's just sad. Now, I TOTALLY understand that to most straight guys, the thought of dating TS does not even compute.
Okay, so it wasn't such a dumb question. :)
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AMWe have to watch out for guys who have their own gender issues, guys who view us as a "fetish" and guys who just generally don't love us OTHER than the fact that we are TS. In a way, they love us for what we are, not who we are, if that makes sense. I hope that some day I can meet a nice guy who loves me for who I am, doesn't feel "weird" or "freaked out" when I tell him that I was born male, because I WILL tell him, I don't believe in keeping that from a partner (people vary on that as you'll see) guy. So, keep your fingers crossed for me ;D
I hear you. I wouldn't artificially like you just because you are MTF transgender (without the "ed" at the end! :) ). I would also keep my distance if you were mean, haha.
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
5) Are there any MTFs in a relationship with FTMs?? ??? :o This is starting to confuse me the more I think about it, LOL!
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AMThere are, even on this board. TS are generally very, very understanding about the issues we face. It's a heterosexual relationship, man and woman. Don't think in terms of what people were born with as far as body parts, think of how they live their life. That should help clarify it. A MTF TS who likes women is hetero. A MTF TS who likes women is lesbian. And of course there are a million differences in there, lol.
It's very, very important to remember that gender and sexual preference are two totally different things. Very, very different.
Maybe all of those words should just be replaced by "essence." That would eliminate a lot of confusion and scientific pandering.
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM7) If you were male and attracted to men before you "switched", did you consider yourself gay then, and do you now consider yourself hetero?
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AMI was when I was right at puberty, I had boy crushes and kissed a boy, he was my first kiss ever. [Ask her to tell you about the JD and Nicole story! It's a good one! - Cali] I saw a few kids who we knew were gay getting beat up and teased every day so I did what I had to do to survive. I went along and pretended to be into girls. I love girls so much. As friends. I was married twice, obviously divorced due to gender issues. It's tough to stay married when you don't view your "husband" as more than a best friend, a girlfriend basically, and on top of that, he never has sex with you. I'd look at girls and think "I want to BE her" not "I want her." Lol, I wouldn't know what to do if I had her, as proven by my past.
I laughed when I read this. I don't know why. Think it's the way you wrote it. :D
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AMI was not gay and I'm not gay now. Gay to me means a guy attracted to another guy. I'm not a guy. It would be impossible for me to be in a relationship with a gay guy. Why? Because guys like guys, not girls. I am everything a gay guy doesn't like. I need a regular, heterosexual guy with no gender issues to be in a relationship with. I don't want to help someone through transition, I want to be done with this and move on with my life.
I have to stop looking at the body of the individual talking.
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AMAll of these questions have challenged my curiosity. This entire thing blows my mind in an awesome way. I love learning new things and your answers, even if they are rude or impatient, are welcomed totally. I hope you see my questions are coming from my heart and not from ignorance.
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 16, 2008, 11:39:59 AMAgain Embrace, and sorry to write a book here, I figured I'd be as descriptive as possible for you. If you ever want to talk about any of this further, just let me know. I'm always up for helping someone understand gender stuff a little better when I can. Take care, thanks for being you ;) Meghan
No no! I was ASKING for specifics! Put it in mah belleh! :D
Thanks for the answers, btw.
Posted on: May 16, 2008, 01:57:01 PM
Quote from: Kate on May 16, 2008, 12:15:39 PM
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 11:36:51 AM
Okay, it's not a lifestyle. It's your life. I was coming more from the place of overall activity. I guess "mindset" or "life path" would be more appropriate. At the same time, I adopted proper diet and exercise years ago and I consider them a part of my new identity. I call that my "lifestyle." But I see what you mean. It's not like an activity you put into a box or hang up on your coat rack.
True. It's not even my "life" though. The diet you mention takes effort. It's something you "do." It's an activity. And like you said, it's part of your identity.
Put it this way: for a crossdresser, it IS an activity. Crossdressing is something they DO now and then for various reasons, just like your diet. It's like saying "I'm a hunter" or "I'm a football player." The activity IS the label. When a crossdresser throws on a skirt, they're well-aware that they've done so... since that's the whole point. I know many CDrs feel more at home and comfortable in women's clothing, but STILL... it's a conscious activity.
But changing your sex is sorta like having had the flu: once your over it, it's forgotten. Done. Just back to a normal life. You're not "doing a surviving the flu lifestyle." You just forget about it and move on.
I AM Kate now. There's no alternative. Whatever I wear, whatever I do, wherever I go... I'm still Kate. It's not a costume I can take off or role I play now and then. I can't "do it" OR "not do it." It just is ;)
I gotcha. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to put you into a box or pickle jar or labels on you. Completely the opposite. This was, up until about an hour ago, completely out of my world. Now it is closer. :)
QuoteQuote from: Kate on May 16, 2008, 11:11:21 AMI really can't, not exactly. I'm fairly unique in the I resist the whole "I'm a woman inside!" argument.
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 11:36:51 AMI don't know this argument. What is it?
Quote from: Kate on May 16, 2008, 11:11:21 AMMany transsexuals say that they have a female mind, a female soul, a female identity... and that's why they had to transition: to make they're body match their mind.
Well, my question is rhetorical, really, but... why do people have such a big problem with it
Quote
QuoteI don't know what this is either - gender binary.
Quote from: Kate on May 16, 2008, 11:11:21 AMThe idea embraced by society, rightly or wrongly, that the two sexes are fairly well-defined and distinct from one another... and should stay that way.
Bleh. Yuck. lol
Quote from: Kate on May 16, 2008, 11:11:21 AMThe funny thing is "normal" people often see transsexuals as challenging that notion, as if we WANT to be gender rebels and bend the rules... where in fact many of us are doing everything we can to OBEY them, and to fit within the expectations of both society and our own self-perceptions for what a "normal" man or woman is.
Well, I'd say, whether by intent or not, you ARE bending the so-called "rules" and I don't consider myself "normal". You ARE challenging the insipid notion that there are only two ways to look at things where gender is concerned. By simply being born into a body that didn't suit you and adjusting to your natural essence, you have embraced a way that you knew would bring resistance, hate, even death - which is courageous in my estimation. In a world that celebrates and idolizes conformity, that takes, um... balls? :)
Quote from: Kate on May 16, 2008, 11:11:21 AMIMHO, that's what separates transsexuals from pretty much drag queens, transvestites, transgenders, gender queers, homosexuals, androgynes, etc... all of whom seek acceptance and tolerance for pushing the existing gender boundaries, for "breaking" the existing norms.
In contrast, transsexuals often *embrace* those norms... but feel that we were stuck on the wrong side of that binary fence.
Quote from: Kate on May 16, 2008, 11:11:21 AMQuoteDo you get offended by the questions outlined in Calpernia's 20 Dumb Questions video?
I was more offended by her being so insulting, demeaning and condescending to the people she felt frustrated with.
I thought it was completely hilarious. :D
Quote from: Kate on May 16, 2008, 11:11:21 AMPeople generally aren't being mean when they ask "dumb questions," they simply don't know any better. Being transsexual (or transgender) often forces us to become experts on the subject, lol... so I remind myself that "normal" people generally don't have any motivation to learn all these fine distinctions. For most people, gays = transsexuals = crossdressing = gender queer = etc. It's just NORMAL OR NOT, when in fact many of those "groups" have little in common with one another EXCEPT that society tends to pick on them equally ;)
~Kate~
Well, maybe you feel a little bit more accepted now. :)
Quote from: Nichole on May 16, 2008, 01:36:27 PM
Like Kate, I had a male body morphology. But, unlike Kate believes, I have always been female at my deepest 'brain' level.
Well, I'm not saying I'm a man either, lol. I mean OK fine, if someone held me down and tickled me, I'd admit that I'm female. And in the WORST of ways, lol. Oh you have NO idea, lol...
But I'm also wary of justifying my transitioning through claiming a female brain somehow. What if the "evidence" for it is exposed as flawed? Are our feelings just weird perversions then? My brain may indeed be female somehow. Or it may not. I haven't dissected it, so I just don't know.
So I'm just being careful. I don't need or want any sort of justification for my transitioning. The "success" of it speaks for itself. If someone asks me "why" I did this, I'd just have them look at my life now... and I think they'll understand in ways words and "reasons" could never explain.
QuoteI think of myself as having always been 'a woman.'
Right, and I don't - at least not as an identity. I think of myself as Kate first, who just
"happens to be" a woman. I don't "identify" as a woman though. It just is. I don't do or think things
"because I'm a woman" any more than I do
"because I'm a transsexual."I guess the point is we all explain this to ourselves differently. We have differing narratives for it. But whether or not we're describing the same thing in different ways, or feeling different things entirely I just don't know.
In the end though, transsexuals feel a need to change their sex, however that's defined by the particular individual. No one else feels that need, not crossdressers, not drag queens (which surprises most "normal" people to hear), not homosexuals, not androgynes, not gender queers. Only transsexuals feel this need, however it's explained or justified.
~Kate~
Quote from: Kate on May 16, 2008, 02:32:45 PM
I guess the point is we all explain this to ourselves differently. We have differing narratives for it. But whether or not we're describing the same thing in different ways, or feeling different things entirely I just don't know.
Hi, Kate. I see you repeated the distinctions I made. So, they were okay, right?
The guy asked for different povs. He's got 'em. Sorry, I wasn't aware that I should hone more toward yours. I was merely pointing out that I feel differently, define differently. As, apparently, does mostly everyone else who's responded, except Lori who agreed with everything you had to write.
I don't justify my transition, luv. I did it, that's all the justification I, or anyone else, needs, imo.
So, what was the problem anyhow?
N~
By the way, all of the women who have responded on this thread are HOT!!! Holy kee-rap!
But I'm not allowed to view profiles for some reason. Anyway... there it is. Beauty. :D
One thing to consider, in response to the Calpernia vid, is that I'd think most transgender or transsexual people growing up had very similar questions to the ones asked by the, "Dumb-asses". So everyones been a dumbass in their own way. EVERYONE. I thought some of it WAS funny, but it was a tad harsh in my opinion. I would have made a movie that was more educational in a non-corrosive way, although... The corrosive part was kind of funny. I'm a jerk, whatever.
But yes. Pretty much like most who have posted in response, I would like to thank you for pursuing your curiosity with an open mind, and trying to be as non-offensive as you can. People have pretty much covered anything I could have said.
The only difference Is in respect to
1) Is there any way to describe why you wanted to become the opposite sex or want to?To tell you the truth... I was very ignorant about most of this up until a certain point. I was in the same place you are in, except I had (have still) this very strong feeling, which is hard to describe. I didn't know since age 2, instantly, which gender I was supposed to be. I trusted most things, and went along with it. My body wasn't masculine at all. I was this skinny little white thing. The point I really starting paying attention to my body was puberty. Then I started to have problems. I thought and feared I was gay (teenage days... Such bigotry), but realized me wearing girls clothes, and fantasizing I was a girl in anything, and still being attracted to girls, started leading me in another direction. I don't know if it was denial or anything, but for many years (to the end of puberty basically) I put off as a fetish. I really started realizing how I couldn't get the thought out of my head that it was wrong, and I was wrong. I realized that the male role in all of my relationships was wrong to me, and the ever popular scenario, "If you could wake up as a girl tomorrow, would you live that way for the rest of your life?"
The answer was always "yes". I never came out to anyone either. Tension just kept building until the body I inhabited felt more like a shell. I identified with my body so little, that I constantly felt disconnected... Almost like I wasn't moving, and I was staring at a TV screen. So depression fed off of it, and depression made it worse. After the last relationship I had (which you could almost see as a joke...) I started piecing everything about myself together, what I liked, what I preferred, why I didn't connect with my body at all, and what roles I had, and what I do/did in life. I started finding sites like this, finally, and I became educated from other peoples experience.
So everything in my life is still in the works. I'm 19, and have ONE supportive friend. I had another one, but he's gone now. I'm miserable at the fact that I will never be happy if I continue as a male. Its living a lie to me, and has been for so long, I almost believed it. So I'm the best actor ever. Thats why no one has suspected anything. I did loosen up a lot this year though... So I act like myself a LITTLE more.. But I'm still not really there. The reason I never held the, "woman trapped in a mans body" stereotype, is because I never really started questioning things in a normal way until a bit more recently.
All in all though,
I should be asking that question you asked, cause I'm still confused, and will continue to be until I realize I'm comfortable with myself, and my body, but I'm not asking, cause It just makes it worse. It just confuses you even more at the point I'm at.
Quote
IMHO, that's what separates transsexuals from pretty much drag queens, transvestites, transgenders, gender queers, homosexuals, androgynes, etc... all of whom seek acceptance and tolerance for pushing the existing gender boundaries, for "breaking" the existing norms.
In contrast, transsexuals often *embrace* those norms... but feel that we were stuck on the wrong side of that binary fence.
I'd kind of argue that some androgynes might not always set out to "break" these norms.
Quote from: Nichole on May 16, 2008, 02:41:44 PM
Hi, Kate. I see you repeated the distinctions I made. So, they were okay, right?
The guy asked for different povs. He's got 'em. Sorry, I wasn't aware that I should hone more toward yours. I was merely pointing out that I feel differently, define differently. As, apparently, does mostly everyone else who's responded, except Lori who agreed with everything you had to write.
I don't justify my transition, luv. I did it, that's all the justification I, or anyone else, needs, imo.
So, what was the problem anyhow?
N~
I've had my happy pills and a shot today :)
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 02:51:27 PM
By the way, all of the women who have responded on this thread are HOT!!! Holy kee-rap!
But I'm not allowed to view profiles for some reason. Anyway... there it is. Beauty. :D
I will presume that is supposed to be complimentary? Thank you. However, please be aware of that little set of words under my avatar. See that word F-e-m-i-n-i-s-t?
That means, among other things, that women are not simply a set of body parts somehow drawn together so a guy can be attracted to her. There are those parts that cannot be subjected to male gaze quite as easily.
Every woman who has replied to your queries is thoughtful, intelligent and worthy of being admired for those traits as well. For her courage and heart, for her compassion and verve and for being willing just to come and answer your questions, pretty openly it looks like.
And in this, I imagine you will find that not all TSes agree. Many would rather have their looks praised than their intelligence. Some, possibly, would simply be fine if they received any praise about anything from a male.
Diff'rent strokes, Embrace. :)
Nichole
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 02:29:20 PM
Well, I'd say, whether by intent or not, you ARE bending the so-called "rules" and I don't consider myself "normal". You ARE challenging the insipid notion that there are only two ways to look at things where gender is concerned. By simply being born into a body that didn't suit you and adjusting to your natural essence
Sure, I know what you mean. I realize that "changing your sex" is a radical idea for most people. But from *my* point of view, I'm actually doing everything I can to CONFORM to the norms of society. I don't want to stand out as a "transssexual," I just want to be known and seen as just another boring, middle-aged woman. My fondest wish is that no one - including myself, insanely enough - ever realize or remember I was originally born male.
Ya gotta realize that aside from those who knew me as a male, people generally have no idea that I wasn't always Kate... which amazes me to no end, but I'm not complaining, lol. But because of that, "being transsexual" just isn't part of my experience of living, NOR part of the experience of anyone meeting me. Sure, I may have bent the accepted standards by transitioning, but no one KNOWS that, or notices it. What I DID may have broken the rules, but how I LIVE doesn't. As far as anyone else is concerned, I'm just this really tall woman named Kate, lol.
My point being that I'm conforming in every way I can. All my documents, IDs and credit cards say Kate. I'm employed as Kate. My body (except for one little part that'll be changed eventually) is generally female. There's nothing incongruent about me, no obvious signs that I was originally born male, no "transsexualness" lol about me. At least I hope not, because if there IS, believe me I'll do whatever it takes to stamp it out, lol.
Rather than struggling to be accepted for being different, my heartbreak and struggle is to be accepted as THE SAME, normal, status quo...
Quoteyou have embraced a way that you knew would bring resistance, hate, even death
I feared that, but I've only found compassion, support, encouragement, admiration... transitioning was THE most wonderful experience I've ever had... NOT because I changed sexes, but because it renewed my faith and admiration for the beauty and kindness of people. I HATE myself now for ever doubting them, for not giving society the credit it deserved, for thinking everyone was so ugly and hateful inside when they're really pretty darn cool and wonderful.
The joke turns out to be *I* was the one being ugly in thinking those things.
~Kate~
Quote from: Lori on May 16, 2008, 02:58:28 PM
I've had my happy pills and a shot today :)
:laugh: :laugh: Lori, I think I may understand that.
People used to literally avoid me when I was between injections. PMS for two or three days.
Happy pills and shots are our friends!! :laugh: :laugh:
Whoops, I missed replying to your detailed post above, I will do that too in a bit.
Quote from: Nichole on May 16, 2008, 03:26:16 PM
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 02:51:27 PM
By the way, all of the women who have responded on this thread are HOT!!! Holy kee-rap!
But I'm not allowed to view profiles for some reason. Anyway... there it is. Beauty. :D
I will presume that is supposed to be complementary? Thank you. However, please be aware of that little set of words under my avatar. See that word F-e-m-i-n-i-s-t?
That means, among other things that women are not simply a set of body parts somehow drawn together so a guy can be attracted to her. There are those parts that cannot be subjected to male gaze quite as easily.
Every woman who has replied to your queries is thoughtful, intelligent and worthy of being admired for those traits as well. For her courage and heart, for her compassion and verve and for being willing just to come and answer your questions, pretty openly it looks like.
And in this, I imagine you will find that not all TSes agree. Many would rather have their looks praised than their intelligence. Some, possibly, would simply be fine if they received any praise about anything from a male.
Diff'rent strokes, Embrace. :)
Nichole
Are you a feminist or person first? I'll take ya either way. haha :P
Well, I have a feminist friend, and one time she sorta yelled at me for a misunderstanding. I explained to her that simply because she is feminist doesn't automatically make me a sexist. :)
Yes, you're right, it was noticing the intelligence AND physical beauty of people in this thread who have blossomed. I'm expressing my appreciation for both, and hope you'll accept it.
You also have to understand I'm coming from the "Hm, they WERE men, now they are women, so is it weird for me to find physical beauty in them?" kind of thinking. Now that several people have explained to me that they ARE WOMEN, it is perfectly natural for me to praise that beauty.
Posted on: May 16, 2008, 03:41:25 PM
I hear you. You ARE a woman, not "Former boy who realized she's a woman and has to fight her way into being accepted." You always were woman. Male body was just inconvenient.
Thanks.
Quote from: Kate on May 16, 2008, 03:28:03 PM
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 02:29:20 PM
Well, I'd say, whether by intent or not, you ARE bending the so-called "rules" and I don't consider myself "normal". You ARE challenging the insipid notion that there are only two ways to look at things where gender is concerned. By simply being born into a body that didn't suit you and adjusting to your natural essence
Sure, I know what you mean. I realize that "changing your sex" is a radical idea for most people. But from *my* point of view, I'm actually doing everything I can to CONFORM to the norms of society. I don't want to stand out as a "transssexual," I just want to be known and seen as just another boring, middle-aged woman. My fondest wish is that no one - including myself, insanely enough - ever realize or remember I was originally born male.
Ya gotta realize that aside from those who knew me as a male, people generally have no idea that I wasn't always Kate... which amazes me to no end, but I'm not complaining, lol. But because of that, "being transsexual" just isn't part of my experience of living, NOR part of the experience of anyone meeting me. Sure, I may have bent the accepted standards by transitioning, but no one KNOWS that, or notices it. What I DID may have broken the rules, but how I LIVE doesn't. As far as anyone else is concerned, I'm just this really tall woman named Kate, lol.
My point being that I'm conforming in every way I can. All my documents, IDs and credit cards say Kate. I'm employed as Kate. My body (except for one little part that'll be changed eventually) is generally female. There's nothing incongruent about me, no obvious signs that I was originally born male, no "transsexualness" lol about me. At least I hope not, because if there IS, believe me I'll do whatever it takes to stamp it out, lol.
Rather than struggling to be accepted for being different, my heartbreak and struggle is to be accepted as THE SAME, normal, status quo...
Quoteyou have embraced a way that you knew would bring resistance, hate, even death
I feared that, but I've only found compassion, support, encouragement, admiration... transitioning was THE most wonderful experience I've ever had... NOT because I changed sexes, but because it renewed my faith and admiration for the beauty and kindness of people. I HATE myself now for ever doubting them, for not giving society the credit it deserved, for thinking everyone was so ugly and hateful inside when they're really pretty darn cool and wonderful.
The joke turns out to be *I* was the one being ugly in thinking those things.
~Kate~
Thoughts create the world.
Posted on: May 16, 2008, 03:46:33 PM
OKay, next lil' slough of questions.
Are there any hormones or procedures for making a FTM transgender's voice sound more male? And has anyone done the voice training technique thing where you make your voice sound more feminine - I was blown away when I heard samples of what could be accomplished.
That question "what if you woke up with 40DD's tomorrow and a vagina? How would you feel?" Well, my first answer to that was "I'd infiltrate women's locker rooms with ease!" LOL!
But on a more serious note, it's a great question, cuz I see where you are coming from more solidly. If that were my condition, I would probably see what it was like to be in a woman's body for a few days, and then want to get back to my male body.
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 03:53:38 PM
I explained to her that simply because she is feminist doesn't automatically make me a sexist. :)
Yes, you're right, it was noticing the intelligence AND physical beauty of people in this thread who have blossomed. I'm expressing my appreciation for both, and hope you'll accept it.
You are absolutely right. Which is why I did thank you due to what appeared to be the complimentary nature of your statements, at least it's what I hear passes for compliments from some guys!! :laugh:
And you are right when you said that to your friend as well. Because I am a feminist does not make you a sexist. I find a lot of guys are unconsciously sexist. They drink deeply of the socio-cultural presumptions they have been raised with and simply seem to imply things, like I saw you do (or thought I did anyway,) that sound a whole lot like 'women are here simply for my pleasure.' With that attitude and the state of today's technology, perhaps the converse is more true than that? But, why would anyone bother to actually believe that we, humans, can or should live without men or relegate them to a position where we presume their only value is to please women? Or to care for us? etc etc?
QuoteYou also have to understand I'm coming from the "Hm, they WERE men, now they are women, so is it weird for me to find physical beauty in them?" kind of thinking. Now that several people have explained to me that they ARE WOMEN, it is perfectly natural for me to praise that beauty.
Posted on: May 16, 2008, 03:41:25 PM
I hear you. You ARE a woman, not "Former boy who realized she's a woman and has to fight her way into being accepted." You always were woman. Male body was just inconvenient.
And yes, I get that as well. It's a rather common view, that "I'd know if I ever met a transsexual." Well, Embrace, I wouldn't be at all suprised to discover you had at least seen one of us without realizing it. Others you may have seen and realized it. The value of a book, etc is inside the book, not just the cover. Although covers may be helpful in educating and attracting the prosepctive reader to what's inside the book. Yeah?
QuoteOKay, next lil' slough of questions.
Are there any hormones or procedures for making a FTM transgender's voice sound more male? And has anyone done the voice training technique thing where you make your voice sound more feminine - I was blown away when I heard samples of what could be accomplished.
There's a lot of, usually, hard work to train the voice. Kinda like those voice-impersonators don't just awaken one morning and talk like Bill Clinton or Hillary or Mahatma Gandhi and what not.
QuoteThat question "what if you woke up with 40DD's tomorrow and a vagina? How would you feel?" Well, my first answer to that was "I'd infiltrate women's locker rooms with ease!" LOL!
But on a more serious note, it's a great question, cuz I see where you are coming from more solidly. If that were my condition, I would probably see what it was like to be in a woman's body for a few days, and then want to get back to my male body.
Yeah, that question is often a good one to use with cis-gendered people. Provided, of course, they are cis-gendered people like you apparently are: one's who will actually consider their answer after they make the required joke about toilets, bedrooms, showers, etc. :laugh:
The thing you need to put into perspective with the answer is what if it isn't just for 'a day or two.' What if it's anywhere between 16 and 80 years? Maybe more? Now, pondering that might help give you some idea of a bit of what we endure and what sometimes, all too often, drives many of us to depression, anxiety, suicide and other generally negative emotional and mental states.
The ones you are meeting here are the fortunate ones. We have the economic status and have found the knowledge and support to actually transition in many cases. We have sisters and brothers who do not have what we have. They work the streets, sometimes abuse drugs and alcohol, often subject their bodies to silicone injections which eventually deform faces, breasts, buttocks, thihgs, arms and the body locations they are injected into. They take rip-off or way overpriced hormones and basically, for many, lead lives of desperation.
Have a heart for all of us, my dear. There but for Mother's grace go I, and her, and her, and him, and him.
Thanks for staying interested. Just try to recall you are dealing here with real live human beings who have struggled a lot and many times would simly wish to have lead the gendered and sexed life that you have, or your sister has.
Best,
Nichole
1) Is there any way to describe why you wanted to become the opposite sex or want to? I realize that some desires and motivations
simply aren't explainable, they're just THERE, strong and insistent, like a monsoon breaking down a straw door. I have my own desires
as a man that can't be explained logically, so I understand if my question is moot or can't be answered. But it's out there anyhow.
I don't recall seeing any one post this so I'll tell you. Many of us, for many reasons, do not transition until our 30's or 40's (like me) or
even later. I did not read all of the replies(sry late Friday) so this may echo what others have said... it's not a want to for me.
I've been a female mentally for my entire life although I had gender issues in my teens I lived a male life and I'm married. I think you
will find that no one here wakes up one day and changes mentally and says I feel female now... we've always been there mentally...
the outside body is what is wrong. And when I say mentally... I don't mean how we act or come across... for the most part I looked
and acted male with a few feminine things like facial expressions and my walk that have just always been with me. But those things
have also been censored and I have never acted gay or effeminate. I'm just me. Just like you KNOW your a male. I KNOW I'm female.
Just becuase my body does not match does not make me ANY less female. But I do have female emotions and I always see things
from a female view point. Everything about my every thought process screams female. So I KNOW my brain is female and has
been from birth. Realizing that fact... that my brain could be (and was) female, yet my body be male, really helped me
deal with my situation.
3) Is "transsexual" a taboo word, and is "transgendered" better? Kind of like "negro" is a bad word in some contexts -
African American is more acceptable.
I hate that word becuase of the negative implications that have been built around it. Some here don't mind it. I'm in the camp
that I'm a transsexual for a period of time... then I'm just female.
4) This is a loaded question somewhat... actually had to re-write this several times in order to ask it in a way I wanted. Let's say
you are MTF TGered. How do you react to someone who sees you as 98% woman, but has that lingering "resistance" to the 2%
"historic man"? Meaning, he knows you were once a man and might have reservations about being with you because, well... you
were a guy once and he may think he's "gay" if he is with you?
I don't react at all... I think I'm gay... that is I only like other women. But that changes daily. LOL. I'll let you know how I feel a
year from now. Seriously... he is either going to be attracted or not based on what he sees... from what I've seen most men can
get over that 2% hurdle. You know guys... it's 98% looks and then testosterone takes over... a pretty face and a nice body is all
it takes.
There are so many pretty girls here and I feel intimidated by many of them. A lot of us do not see what others (and what men) see,
myself included. Since all my friends here tell me I should share good things... I posted picture of myself on hotornot to guage where
I was and I rated 9.2 after 500+ guys voted. I suspect that more than a few of those 500 would put that 2% difference behind us
if I were interested and was post-op. Don't you think?
OMG... I've turned into Melissa90210 LOL :)
Amanda
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
1) Is there any way to describe why you wanted to become the opposite sex or want to?
I was always female gender. What I changed was my physical sex to match my female soul/brain (if you will). Why did I do it? To be whole. In my mind, I couldn't be a complete woman with a body and mind mismatch.
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
2) What is the difference between transgendered, transsexual, transvestite
Quote from: Site Terms and DefinitionsTranssexual: a person who is mentally one gender, but has the body of the other. They desire to live and be accepted as a member of the mental gender, this is generally accompanied by the strong desire to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.
Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and Transvestites.
Transvestite: a person who wears the clothing of the opposite gender, and has no desire to permanently change their sex. There is generally a strong sexual motivation for the cross-dressing.
Quoted text extracted from this link:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,14714.0.htmlQuote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
3) Is "transsexual" a taboo word, and is "transgendered" better? Kind of like "negro" is a bad word in some contexts - African American is more acceptable.
I don't think that "transsexual" is a taboo word at all. Some people like to label themselves as transsexual; others as transgendered. I, myself, love to be labeled as what I am, a woman. My transition is over, so there's no need to use the
transsexual label anymore. But again, that is me; others may be perfectly fine with the trans pre-fix, and that is alright too.
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
4) This is a loaded question somewhat... actually had to re-write this several times in order to ask it in a way I wanted. Let's say you are MTF TGered. How do you react to someone who sees you as 98% woman, but has that lingering "resistance" to the 2% "historic man"? Meaning, he knows you were once a man and might have reservations about being with you because, well... you were a guy once and he may think he's "gay" if he is with you?
My boyfriend is also transsexual (FTM) ;D). He knows about my transsexual history and sees me as what I am, a woman. Needless to say I see him as what he is as well, 100% manl, and our relationship is heterosexual.
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
5) Are there any MTFs in a relationship with FTMs?? ??? :o This is starting to confuse me the more I think about it, LOL!
I just answered this question :) And incidentally, transsexualism is NOT a life style!
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
6) What about the word "Hermaphrodite"? I heard a while back that that word isn't used anymore, or that "unisex" was more appropriate. I guess they are the lucky ones, hehehe.
The correct term is intersex. The term
hermaphrodite is regarded as offensive in some circles of the intersexed community. I am not sure what you mean by "lucky ones". Most intersexed people suffer greatly because they are butchered without their consent whey they are born; then when they are older, they find out that their gender identity doesn't coincide with their "corrected" anatomy. There are exceptions, of course, but mostly this seems to be the case. For more information, please visit this website:
http://www.isna.org/Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
7) If you were male and attracted to men before you "switched", did you consider yourself gay then, and do you now consider yourself hetero?
To the rest of the world, I was a
gay man, I suppose. That's not what I felt inside though. I never felt comfortable as "a gay man". I wanted my partner to see me as the woman I knew I was, but he always thought I was "insane".
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
6) What about the word "Hermaphrodite"? I heard a while back that that word isn't used anymore, or that "unisex" was more appropriate. I guess they are the lucky ones, hehehe.
I'm quite sensitive about this issue. I'm intersex. I was born with gonadal mosaicism, the rarest form of an intersex condition. Because of the tripe & pressure we've got to face since we're born, I was assigned male & given a life that wasn't mine. I wasn't lucky in any way, shape or form. I was dreadfully pathetic & wanted to die all the time.
The word "hermaphrodite" is misleading because it implies we've got both "male" and "female" sets of reproductive organs & in humans there are no actual "hermaphrodites". Hermaphrodite is a disparaging word no doubt. Also, please avoid using the word "intersexual" as a noun; we prefer "intersex people" or "people with intersex conditions"
Quote from: Nichole on May 16, 2008, 03:30:06 PM
:laugh: :laugh: Lori, I think I may understand that.
Happy pills and shots are our friends!! :laugh: :laugh:
Oh yes indeed :)
Quote from: Nichole on May 16, 2008, 01:36:27 PM
Androgynes live somewhere in the middle, generally neither female or male but usually keeping the genitalia they were born with. They dress how they feel often in a mixture of culturally accepted binary styles. Some of them decide to transition, some started thinking they were Ts and changed their minds at some point in transition. Usually they tend to be the easiest-going of us all.
I suppose this is my cue. :)
With regard to gender as a social construct I consider myself an androgyne: being male has always been something of an act -- but I've also come to realise that being female would be just another role to play. I don't mind being seen as either, although I do mind very much when people expect me to behave certain ways just because they see me as a man. Neither of the extremes is me, I'm somewhere in the middle and much happier now that I've understood that I don't need to choose either side.
On the other hand, with regard to sex I'm pretty much convinced that I'm transsexual: I've wished for a female body since way before puberty started. I also agree with the hypothesis that this has something to do with how my brain grew up before I was born (but unlike Kate suggests, I don't see this as
justification for feeling this way but rather the most plausible
explanation).
I don't plan to transition, but I think that's at least partly because my ideal gender is different from my ideal sex. There is no real need for me to have a body that others would accept as female, but instead it's sufficient to get a body that feels close enough to what I think it should while also looking unremarkable enough for
some gender. Happily, the 38A breasts I have because of gynaecomastia don't raise any eyebrows in a men's locker room; likewise, it's possible to choose my clothing so that I can mostly ignore what's in my crotch. Besides, lots of people cope with much worse body deformities than healthy but wrong genitalia.
There are people (here, too) who'd say that my ability to make these compromises means that I'm not really transsexual. The diagnostic criteria can be interpreted that way, too. On the other hand, I'm able to make these compromises just because I've given up caring too much about how people label me. So there. :P :D
Nfr
Quote from: Seshatneferw on May 18, 2008, 10:05:20 AM
There are people (here, too) who'd say that my ability to make these compromises means that I'm not really transsexual. The diagnostic criteria can be interpreted that way, too. On the other hand, I'm able to make these compromises just because I've given up caring too much about how people label me. So there. :P :D
Nfr
And maybe, Embrace, you are getting the idea that we are far from some monolithically describable mass of human beings who all fit within some very narrow typology. And, if you are discovering that, then you are on the right track.
I think there may be some wide-ranging descriptive that would be inclusive of pretty much all of us. But the narrow ones seldom fit all if the people who feel they are included under one or another label.
That is one of the things I find in my work, which has a lot of emphasis on labelling -- it's a precarious undertaking to simply label this this and that this without limiting that labelling with a lot of very cautious caveats.
Maybe the best description for all of us and all of you (cisgendered/cissexual people) is 'human being.' That encompasses a richness and diversity that seems most likely to get to the inclusion of everyone.
Nichole
Quote from: Nichole on May 18, 2008, 10:53:59 AM
Maybe the best description for all of us and all of you (cisgendered/cissexual people) is 'human being.'...
You haven't met the
Otherkin community yet, have you? ;)
~Kate~
are chimeras part of that subculture too?
This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(genetics)) kind of chimera? Or This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(mythology)) kind?
N~
QuoteThere is no real need for me to have a body that others would accept as female, but instead it's sufficient to get a body that feels close enough to what I think it should while also looking unremarkable enough for some gender. Happily, the 38A breasts I have because of gynaecomastia don't raise any eyebrows in a men's locker room; likewise, it's possible to choose my clothing so that I can mostly ignore what's in my crotch. Besides, lots of people cope with much worse body deformities than healthy but wrong genitalia.
There are people (here, too) who'd say that my ability to make these compromises means that I'm not really transsexual. The diagnostic criteria can be interpreted that way, too.
There are some days that I feel like I could live like that... close enough to female. Although my 36 nearly B breasts on
my 155 pound body would never pass as gyno anymore. Of course the total lack of body hair does not help LOL... but I
totally get what you are saying. I feel SO much better with the changes I have had so far. And I wonder HOW I
could possibly not do SRS. But I might be able to do just that. I think a lot of it for me is mental. I stopped focusing on
what is between my legs long ago and have been able to put it totally out of my mind. I never look at it, never touch it...
it's just there. Since starting HRT the ONLY time I know it's there is after direct stimulation so it's even a smaller problem.
(pun intended)
Amanda
I hate 'lifestyle'. It's a propaganda word.
Quote1) Is there any way to describe why you wanted to become the opposite sex or want to?
What is the opposite of light? What is the opposite of cold? What is the opposite of monkey? What is the opposite of Brazil? Now, what is the opposite of Girl? Why? Why does our society have the concept that male and female are somehow 'opposites'? Julia Serano coined the term 'Oppositional Sexism' to describe this idea that male and female are 'opposite', and the assigning of behaviors, modes of dress, 'suitable' job categories, and other activities to one grouping or the other and then enforcing these assignments through societal sanctions, up to and including violence, on the transgressors.
My body is male, certainly. My brain was feminized in utero when my mom took DES. It's like putting Mac guts inside a PC case and then trying to run PC software -- the Mac's PC emulator routine does it, but at reduced performance and with lots of errors. Now if you ignore the case and start running Mac software, it runs better, faster, more efficiently, and with greatly reduced errors.
Quote3) Is "transsexual" a taboo word, and is "transgendered" better?
I'd be happy to use transsexual. Problem is, there's this word 'sexual' in it, and that sets off parts of the Religious Reich. They can't help it, they find out I transitioned and they start thinking we do it 25 hours a day when in fact the levels and patterns of sexual activity among transsexuals are at or, more likely, below 'normal' people.
Quote5) Are there any MTFs in a relationship with FTMs??
I know a married couple. They hadn't yet changed their birth certificates, so she legally changed her last name to his last name a couple of months before the wedding. On the wedding certificate, she was the groom and he was the bride. The marriage is totally legal.
Quote7) If you were male and attracted to men before you "switched", did you consider yourself gay then, and do you now consider yourself hetero?
Orientation is the least of our worries, don't you think? For MtFs, some are drawn to guys before and after, some are drawn to women before and after, some are drawn to women and then surprise themselves when they suddenly find boys, and I'm sure there are a few that go into transition liking guys and then switch to women after transition.
Karen
Welcome to Susan's Embracetheunknown, and thanks for your thought provoking questions. I don't have time to answer point by point, but here's a bit. I identify as androgyne, or something else close enough to that term to use it. I have a transsexual history, I transitioned M2f in 1993 and after a year or so, realized that while I'm not male, I'm not really female either. I didn't proceed further, have lived in between ever since, although sometimes I think about transitioning again. It's a struggle for each of us to figure out the best path for our situations.
I found Calpernia's video humorous, and more of an inside joke for members of the T community. Yes, it's also harsh in some places, but as a public person, she's been asked these questions too many times and is probably sick of hearing them. I don't mind answering questions, as a person walking a unique path, I can sometimes help educate about these issues. And to reiterate others here, no, it isn't a "lifestyle".
I'd recommend a couple of books if you'd like to know more about transgender issues, Julia Serano's Whipping Girl, and Kate Bornstein's Gender Outlaw. There's plenty of others worth reading, but these two would be a good start.
Zythyra
Quote from: Karen on May 19, 2008, 12:57:30 AMWhat is the opposite of light?
Dark.
Quote from: Karen on May 19, 2008, 12:57:30 AMWhat is the opposite of cold?
Hot.
Quote from: Karen on May 19, 2008, 12:57:30 AMWhat is the opposite of monkey?
Nun-ny.
Quote from: Karen on May 19, 2008, 12:57:30 AMWhat is the opposite of Brazil?
Myanmar.
Quote from: Karen on May 19, 2008, 12:57:30 AMNow, what is the opposite of Girl?
I have no idea.
Posted on: May 19, 2008, 01:20:00 PM
Quote from: Nichole on May 18, 2008, 05:34:24 PM
This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(genetics)) kind of chimera? Or This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(mythology)) kind?
N~
Argh. Now I'm confused... :-\ :( ???
Quote from: Karen on May 19, 2008, 12:57:30 AM
What is the opposite of light? What is the opposite of cold? What is the opposite of monkey? What is the opposite of Brazil? Now, what is the opposite of Girl?
More to the point, what is 'opposite'? The whole idea of opposition requires a choice of some sort of conceptual axis: the opposite of 'light' could be 'heavy' or 'dark', and the opposite of 'girl' could be 'woman', 'boy', 'filly' or a variety of others depending on the context.
Quote
Why does our society have the concept that male and female are somehow 'opposites'?
Because they are, if you choose to frame the question in such a way that they are. ;)
Most of the time it even makes sense to see gender that way. But only most of the time.
Nfr
Quote from: EmbraceTheUnknown on May 16, 2008, 10:36:18 AM
7) If you were male and attracted to men before you "switched", did you consider yourself gay then, and do you now consider yourself hetero?
I've never considered myself gay ever. But my sexuality has always been complicated. To other people it would appear that I had a relationship with a woman, transitioned and then 'changed' orientation to being a straight woman.
But it was confusing growing up, especially during puberty. Cos I felt attracted to men but i knew i was NOT a "gay man". And dated women cos i was
trying to be "normal", and it made some sort of sense since i knew i wasn't a "gay man".
It does seem strange when transsexuals apparently change orientation, but to me it makes some sort of sense - you
can't be a "gay man" without being a man!
I'm sure other people have other explanations though! :)
QuoteAre there any hormones or procedures for making a FTM transgender's voice sound more male? And has anyone done the voice training technique thing where you make your voice sound more feminine - I was blown away when I heard samples of what could be accomplished.
I won't answer the first set of questions because the women who did answer did a fine job. As for the male voice, we go through a normal male puberty on testosterone, so our voice changes just like any other guy's (although much later in life in some cases). We also grow facial hair and have a chance, depending on genetics, of going bald. You've probably seen lots of FtM's and had no clue. That's the plus about testosterone (from the FtM point of view). The changes it causes are irreversible and significant.
Dennis
Quote from: Dennis on May 19, 2008, 06:18:09 PM
That's the plus about testosterone (from the FtM point of view). The changes it causes are irreversible and significant.
And why we hate it so much! (from the vicy versy point of view)
Quote from: jenny_ on May 19, 2008, 06:29:39 PM
Quote from: Dennis on May 19, 2008, 06:18:09 PM
That's the plus about testosterone (from the FtM point of view). The changes it causes are irreversible and significant.
And why we hate it so much! (from the vicy versy point of view)
I know :( the gratitude I have for it is tempered by what it does to you women and how you feel about it.
Dennis
O, Dennis, that's sweet, but hardly necessary.
Be as grateful to the stuff as you want. I haven't been and I'm just happy to know it helps someone I like a lot.
Embrace, see what I mean about FTMs? They simply know, often enough, how to be charmers!! :laugh: At least, most of the one's around here do anyhow.
N~