Pregnant man Thomas Beatie to publish book
By Our Foreign Staff
Last Updated: 5:47PM BST 11/06/2008
The world's first pregnant man is aiming to hit the bestseller lists with a memoir of his experiences due to come out three months after his daughter's birth.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2111788/Pregnant-man-Thomas-Beatie-to-publish-book.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2111788/Pregnant-man-Thomas-Beatie-to-publish-book.html)
Thomas Beatie, a transgender 34-year-old due to give birth in three weeks, has been the subject of frenzied media interest since news of his pregnancy emerged in March.
The book, Love Makes a Family: A Memoir of Hardship, Healing and an Extraordinary Pregnancy, is expected to detail Mr Beatie's journey via partial sex-change surgery from beauty pageant entrant to controversial expectant father.
It is due out on September 30.
I simply cannot understand this person at all. I hate to be judgmental but if one decides to change gender ( for simplicity and not semantic debate ), it should be in the entirity. As a M to F, I fully understand that I lose forever the ability to become a father owing to losing my penis ( it never formed correctly and never functioned ).
I am not considering sperm retrieval and storage here ( cant produce the stuff anyway ), just the ability to be sexually active in a male context with another person.
Consequently, if a woman decides that malehood is the way to go, then surely the ability to bear a child and give birth as a WOMAN is anathema irrespective of the method of conception.
This person is in my view, extracting the urine among our community and complicating what is already a very difficult domain and I have enough difficulty explaining to people why I am doing what I am doing without having to walk them through the motives of this individual. :-\
I struggled at first with what I made of this and I don't understand him either. But thats probably just because i don't relate to him that much and I wouldn't want to keep any bit or reminder of my former gender.
But that doesn't necessarily make him wrong.
Quote from: JENNIFER on June 11, 2008, 02:36:36 PM
I hate to be judgmental but if one decides to change gender ( for simplicity and not semantic debate ), it should be in the entirity. As a M to F, I fully understand that I lose forever the ability to become a father owing to losing my penis.
I think its complicated. Yeah, I see your point, but then the argument goes down to are non-op transsexuals 'real'. And i really don't feel comfortable with judging somebody else as being real or not, especially as I don't fully understand it.
Also its slightly different for a ftm because they don't have as great surgical options, and so 'entirity' isn't quite the same.
I almost missed this crucial point, he wants to write and publish a book? Well now, is this a money raising ruse or perhaps a stunt? :icon_lemon:
Quote from: JENNIFER on June 11, 2008, 02:36:36 PM
I simply cannot understand this person at all. I hate to be judgmental but [judgementalness follows]
People can suggest he's just publicity seeking to make money or that he just enjoys the attention or whatever... But telling him he's not allowed to transition in what ever way suits him is a whole different matter. There is no 'should' about transition, it's his body and his life not anyone else's. It seems that some people view their 'right' to not have to explain where they sit in very diverse group of people (which the trans spectrum blatantly is) as more important than the right of less normative trans people to simply exist or be recognised at all. I'm sorry but you don't have the 'right' to throw you normative privilege around like that. We have lives to live, rights/recognition to seek and stories to tell too. We're NOT less valid.
He is not 'doing it wrong', he is obviously happy with his path and the choices he has made, which is all that matters. He's doing it very very right.
There seems to be a game of 'sacrifice olympics' among trans people sometimes. Just because you need to give something up, doesn't mean every other trans person should have to as well.
jenny_ :)
Methinks someone enjoys being in the spotlight.
Lia
i think the whole thing stinks of being a gold-digging publicity stunt. i don't see anything at all "extraordinary" about someone with a fully functional womb having a baby.
of the child, then: "You will be the first child in history born to a man!"
uh, right...
if you wanna be a man, be a man, and don't walk around pregnant, posing as if you are accomplishing this with nothing more than male glands, and male equipment, ffs.
-Ell
This is a matter that is high upon British media agenda still, I recall his defence that he claims the right to be a parent........well, I also claim that right but if I managed to gain it, it would be through adoption or 'step-parenthood' following a legal joining with a male partner :-\
Quoteif you wanna be a man, be a man, and don't walk around pregnant
I think the fact that these are somehow seen as mutually exclusive shows how backwards the general population's thinking is and why it's so difficult to have anything 'new' accepted. Such as trans-people perhaps?
Quote from: JC on June 11, 2008, 05:00:17 PM
Quoteif you wanna be a man, be a man, and don't walk around pregnant
I think the fact that these are somehow seen as mutually exclusive shows how backwards the general population's thinking is and why it's so difficult to have anything 'new' accepted. Such as trans-people perhaps?
Hehe, very true. Also, it amuses me that people in this thread are portraying being trans as a choice. "If you wanna be a man" "if a woman decides that malehood is the way to go". I've always thought I was born the gender I am, that my gender identity was something innate, not something I chose.
Perhaps the problem is that people who choose their gender don't understand that being a male bodied woman or a female bodied man is a simple fact of life to some people.
Quote from: JC on June 11, 2008, 05:00:17 PM
Quoteif you wanna be a man, be a man, and don't walk around pregnant
I think the fact that these are somehow seen as mutually exclusive shows how backwards the general population's thinking is and why it's so difficult to have anything 'new' accepted. Such as trans-people perhaps?
i think this person
does have the right to carry a child. but, give me a break, would you? it's the
spin on the story that i object to. you hear "extraordinary pregnant man" on the news, and you think, OMG, and you turn it on.
and then you say, oh, well, how extraordinary, really, are we talking, here? 'cause it seems to me that, really, lots and lots and lots of FTM's could do this. so, by them (and him) using the word, "extraordinary," i have been duped into watching something that, in fact, can be repeated ad nauseum. and i feel a bit cheated, and lied to.
-Ell
Posted on: June 11, 2008, 05:22:54 PM
Quote from: Andra on June 11, 2008, 05:05:35 PM
Hehe, very true. Also, it amuses me that people in this thread are portraying being trans as a choice. "If you wanna be a man" "if a woman decides that malehood is the way to go". I've always thought I was born the gender I am, that my gender identity was something innate, not something I chose.
Perhaps the problem is that people who choose their gender don't understand that being a male bodied woman or a female bodied man is a simple fact of life to some people.
this goes also for you, Andra. it's not that this cannot or should not occur within the broad gender spectrum. what should not occur, in my opinion, is that it should not be misrepresented as the 7th wonder of the world, when it's not. there is much misrepresentation in this news story, and it is both the fault of the media for pandering it, and Mr. Beattie, for trying to cash in on a naturally occurring process, and calling it "extraordinary."
-Ell
Quotei think this person does have the right to carry a child. but, give me a break, would you?
Should i had the ability and desire to do so, why not?
Quoteit's the spin on the story that i object to.
That's fine, but what does that have to do with someone's gender?
Quote
. so, by them (and him) using the word, "extraordinary," i have been duped into watching something that, in fact, can be repeated ad nauseum. and i feel a bit cheated, and lied to.
If this is the case, then it would make sense to cease following the story so that you won't further the feeling of being cheated, yes?
Quote from: ell on June 11, 2008, 05:22:54 PM
Quote from: JC on June 11, 2008, 05:00:17 PM
Quoteif you wanna be a man, be a man, and don't walk around pregnant
I think the fact that these are somehow seen as mutually exclusive shows how backwards the general population's thinking is and why it's so difficult to have anything 'new' accepted. Such as trans-people perhaps?
i think this person does have the right to carry a child. but, give me a break, would you? it's the spin on the story that i object to. you hear "extraordinary pregnant man" on the news, and you think, OMG, and you turn it on.
and then you say, oh, well, how extraordinary, really, are we talking, here? 'cause it seems to me that, really, lots and lots and lots of FTM's could do this. so, by them (and him) using the word, "extraordinary," i have been duped into watching something that, in fact, can be repeated ad nauseum. and i feel a bit cheated, and lied to.
-Ell
Well, honestly, I think that the fault is more with the media as far the use of buzzwords like "extraordinary" goes. Its just empty words being used to pump up a non-story is all.
Quote from: ell on June 11, 2008, 05:29:27 PM
this goes also for you, Andra. it's not that this cannot or should not occur within the broad gender spectrum. what should not occur, in my opinion, is that it should not be misrepresented as the 7th wonder of the world, when it's not. there is much misrepresentation in this news story, and it is both the fault of the media for pandering it, and Mr. Beattie, for trying to cash in on a naturally occurring process, and calling it "extraordinary."
I am not arguing the points you make here. I just had issues with the post I quoted in my first reply in this thread.
Personally though, I'm very happy to see less normative trans people getting some publicity. The less the general population think 'all trans people do/want/like X', the better. 8)
Quote from: Andra on June 11, 2008, 05:05:35 PM
Quote from: JC on June 11, 2008, 05:00:17 PM
Quoteif you wanna be a man, be a man, and don't walk around pregnant
I think the fact that these are somehow seen as mutually exclusive shows how backwards the general population's thinking is and why it's so difficult to have anything 'new' accepted. Such as trans-people perhaps?
Hehe, very true. Also, it amuses me that people in this thread are portraying being trans as a choice. "If you wanna be a man" "if a woman decides that malehood is the way to go". I've always thought I was born the gender I am, that my gender identity was something innate, not something I chose.
Perhaps the problem is that people who choose their gender don't understand that being a male bodied woman or a female bodied man is a simple fact of life to some people.
I do not wish to be in conflict but I am not amused with the comment above regards to being amused about suggesting trans whatever is a choice.
Again, I am here because it fits my needs and that I am able to contribute to debate. i only wish that respondents actually read what is written IN CONTEXT before offering a reply , however, i may be in serious error for which I apologise without reservation.
Quote from: JC on June 11, 2008, 05:30:50 PM
Quotei think this person does have the right to carry a child. but, give me a break, would you?
Should i had the ability and desire to do so, why not?
Quoteit's the spin on the story that i object to.
That's fine, but what does that have to do with someone's gender?
Quote
. so, by them (and him) using the word, "extraordinary," i have been duped into watching something that, in fact, can be repeated ad nauseum. and i feel a bit cheated, and lied to.
If this is the case, then it would make sense to cease following the story so that you won't further the feeling of being cheated, yes?
yes. you
should go ahead and carry a child if you so wish. why not? just don't go on Oprah Winfrey and make it out to be an immaculate conception or something.
what does it have to do with gender? well, the headline
should read:
Male Gendered FTM Person Goes Off Testosterone, and Gets Pregnant in What is Being Called a Non-Extraordinary Pregnancybut then the
story would have to be:
There's nothing to see here, folks, go home. We're the Media, and we've been lying. Again.
###
-Ellie
QuoteThere's nothing to see here, folks, go home. We're the Media, and we've been lying. Again.
I guess i'm a bit confused at what the lie actually is here? I would certainly hope you don't think they're lying about him being a man. The part about being 'extraordinary' is completely open to interpretation, you're free to disagree. Though, if you'd never heard of trans-people at all the case might be different, no?
Quote from: JC on June 11, 2008, 06:15:24 PM
QuoteThere's nothing to see here, folks, go home. We're the Media, and we've been lying. Again.
I guess i'm a bit confused at what the lie actually is here? I would certainly hope you don't think they're lying about him being a man. The part about being 'extraordinary' is completely open to interpretation, you're free to disagree. Though, if you'd never heard of trans-people at all the case might be different, no?
World's First Pregnant Man = very big news
FTM goes off Testosterone and Gets Pregnant = not even news
news is either truly notable, or it's not
the first headline is worth tremendous historical interest and is worthy of scientific study to see how it happened. (yes,
of course they are assuming people will believe they meant a genetic male)
the second headline is rather interesting to me, as a Trans person, but meh, i'm not exactly going to need a scientific analysis, nor mark the date for the history books, now am i?
how can both headlines go for the same story? the short answer is they can't, unless one of them is stretching the truth somewhere or, as you're doing, fiddling with the semantics.
trust me, the spin Oprah intended was that people would
hear "genetic male" when the word, "man" was used. that's where the truth was stretched. and it was stretched pretty far. and now get this: people still think "pregnant man? OMG" even now, when they already
know it's not
really about a genetic male, and no further scientific study is needed.
-Ell
I guess the problem i'm seeing here is that you seem to be stating your opinion as if it were factual information.
QuoteWorld's First Pregnant Man = very big news
FTM goes off Testosterone and Gets Pregnant = not even news
Both of these lines really should be amended with "to me" at the ends. Then there would be no discussion to have.
Quote
news is either truly notable, or it's not
Like i said in my other post, to you, it may not be notable. But to someone who has no idea that trans-people even exist? It very well may be notable AND extraordinary.
Quotefiddling with the semantics.
I think you may need to watch the headlines in the news media a bit closer. This is neither new nor novel. It happens every single day.
Quote from: JC on June 11, 2008, 07:15:23 PM
I guess the problem i'm seeing here is that you seem to be stating your opinion as if it were factual information.
QuoteWorld's First Pregnant Man = very big news
FTM goes off Testosterone and Gets Pregnant = not even news
QuoteBoth of these lines really should be amended with "to me" at the ends. Then there would be no discussion to have.
Quote
news is either truly notable, or it's not
actually those statements just reflect commonly accepted (correct) journalism practice. an earthquake in Alaska may affect John less than news that something bad happened to his dog. but which ends up on TV at 6 o'clock?
QuoteLike i said in my other post, to you, it may not be notable. But to someone who has no idea that trans-people even exist? It very well may be notable AND extraordinary.
fiddling with the semantics.
QuoteI think you may need to watch the headlines in the news media a bit closer. This is neither new nor novel. It happens every single day.
i am ashamed of American Media, and i try to avoid it at every opportunity. can we please end this argument now? i think you've already insulted me quite enough.
-Ell
True, the story isn't really all that extraordinary given he was born with a womb but as an ftm, I'm glad this story has gotten this kind of mass attention.
For one, it's drawn attention to the fact we exist.
For two, it shows the public a man who is obviously comfortable enough with his parts to bear children.
That some ftms do not desire genital rearrangement and we're not just women with a bad case of penis envy (which the general public would undoubtedly assume upon hearing about 'women who want to be men'.
So, regardless of how this story's been presented, I think it's very good for the community and non-traditional transpeople especially.
QuoteTrue, the story isn't really all that extraordinary given he was born with a womb but as an ftm, I'm glad this story has gotten this kind of mass attention.
For one, it's drawn attention to the fact we exist.
For two, it shows the public a man who is obviously comfortable enough with his parts to bear children.
That some ftms do not desire genital rearrangement and we're not just women with a bad case of penis envy (which the general public would undoubtedly assume upon hearing about 'women who want to be men'.
So, regardless of how this story's been presented, I think it's very good for the community and non-traditional transpeople especially.
The above bolded is a point that i think most of the people complaining about the story seem to miss. Positive awareness is still positive awareness. Whether or not people agree with HOW the story was presented it's still important that it WAS presented. Society will not begin to change for something until it knows that that thing exists. It may not be the most ideal way but there are many far far worse ways to get it in the public eye.
I hate to say it but I think money is the main object here......personally this story is getting stale, it lost it definition of a personal challenge, and heading into more of a Springer style episode.
gina
It may not be in my place to say anything and I may catch a lot of heat for this but as someone who deals with the straight christian community from a straight perspective, this person has brought the existance of the ts community to light indeed.
Unfortunately he has also dealt a black eye to it as most of the straight christians are ignorant of ts issues and look at them through their biased tunnel-vision of passed down teachings.
Sadly, the exposure may be worse than no exposure in this case as most just tend to feel that the person is a female and if "he" was truly a male there would have been no desire to carry a child nor keep the parts of the anatomy that enable carrying and giving birth.
Well, I'm through with what I have heard and read from those I have communicated with.
If I am wrong, at least I tried to give the straight perspective.
I might add that these are not what I believe though.
Del
Posted on: June 11, 2008, 09:27:03 PM
My wording above may be pretty poor so I just wanted to explain a bit.
The straight Christian community for the most part has pretty much deemed the transsexual community as perverts, freaks and demon possessed.
Now, thanks too this individual many have added greedy and money hungry to their list of descriptive words while enforcing their opinion that gender means nothing more than covering the above sins they see.
As if the transsexual community doesn't have enough trouble being accepted in this world!
Really sad.
Del
Well, since I posted this news item I might as well chime in.
A month or so ago I watched Thomas Beatie's Oprah appearance on youtube. He seemed quite sincere to me. I don't believe he's writing a book solely to make a buck, my impression is that he's going public to educate people about transgender lives.
Wouldn't it be nice if someday a trans man having a baby wasn't any more extraordinary news than any other person having a baby. Perhaps Thomas' book can be a step in that direction.
Zythyra
I imagine that if the intent was to teach about the transsexual community the shock factor of that first step may provide a good start.
I know it sure made an impression and wakeup call to the straight sector.
Hopefully good will come from it.
Del
Quote from: ell on June 11, 2008, 04:32:13 PM
of the child, then: "You will be the first child in history born to a man!"
Or actually not. There have been quite a few FtoMs who have already done this.
Quote from: Lisbeth on June 12, 2008, 08:40:55 AM
Quote from: ell on June 11, 2008, 04:32:13 PM
of the child, then: "You will be the first child in history born to a man!"
Or actually not. There have been quite a few FtoMs who have already done this.
Notably Matt Rice, author Pat Califia's partner, in the late 90s.
Zythyra
Quote from: Lisbeth on June 12, 2008, 08:40:55 AM
There have been quite a few FtoMs who have already done this.
Exactly. FtMs have been doing this quietly for decades now. Heavy, exploitative publicization of such a bizarre (to the general public) set of circumstances doesn't seem like it will do much to help the cause. If anything, I would be afraid of a tightening of policy preventing FtMs from changing legal sex unless such situations are not impossible. This could lead to making necessary removing all of the plumbing (hysterectomy, vaginectomy, etc.)--very dangerous and expensive procedures, all the worse if they are unwanted--in order to change legal sex. After all, sterilization was regarded traditionally as a requirement for recognition of sex change. Scary stuff.
Lia
Quote from: genovais on June 12, 2008, 09:26:12 AM
Quote from: Lisbeth on June 12, 2008, 08:40:55 AM
There have been quite a few FtoMs who have already done this.
Exactly. FtMs have been doing this quietly for decades now. Heavy, exploitative publicization of such a bizarre (to the general public) set of circumstances doesn't seem like it will do much to help the cause. If anything, I would be afraid of a tightening of policy preventing FtMs from changing legal sex unless such situations are not impossible. This could lead to making necessary removing all of the plumbing (hysterectomy, vaginectomy, etc.)--very dangerous and expensive procedures, all the worse if they are unwanted--in order to change legal sex. After all, sterilization was regarded traditionally as a requirement for recognition of sex change. Scary stuff.
Lia
Umm, why would they do that? It benefits no one, no one can make a buck off of it, and it's a pretty rare thing (pregnant FtoMs). TG people are barely on the radar screen of the world at large. Search the archives of the New York Times for ENDA if you don't believe me.
Mr. Beatty owes the TG world nothing. If he wants to exploit the situation to make a buck, fine. There is no law against making money in this country!
Quote from: genovais on June 12, 2008, 09:26:12 AM
Exactly. FtMs have been doing this quietly for decades now. Heavy, exploitative publicization of such a bizarre (to the general public) set of circumstances doesn't seem like it will do much to help the cause. If anything, I would be afraid of a tightening of policy preventing FtMs from changing legal sex unless such situations are not impossible. This could lead to making necessary removing all of the plumbing (hysterectomy, vaginectomy, etc.)--very dangerous and expensive procedures, all the worse if they are unwanted--in order to change legal sex. After all, sterilization was regarded traditionally as a requirement for recognition of sex change. Scary stuff.
Lia
My fear exactly Lia. I see more backlash than good coming from this.
Dennis
QuoteThe straight Christian community for the most part has pretty much deemed the transsexual community as perverts, freaks and demon possessed.
Would that be the organised religion that is christianity or those that hold a christian faith? I never set foot within a church owing to the cold atmosphere that lies within but I have christian friends that only offer warmth love and friendship with no issues about what I am and they dont go to church.....no ties to 'teachings and doctrine', just lovely human beings :)