Evening, my friends.
I want to know about the androgyne child and dysphoria. I want to know how you felt as a child regarding your gender id. I want to know if you experienced discomfort going through puberty. What you felt about your body changing.
And about the social part. If you had trouble fitting in or being ostricized with your birth sex peers or just in general what it was like socially.
Thanks.
Quote from: Nero on June 12, 2008, 09:11:57 PM
I want to know about the androgyne child and dysphoria. I want to know how you felt as a child regarding your gender id.
I didn't fit in as a boy. I had no desire to do boy stuff, play with boy toys, didn't like to participate in any sports. I knew I was different, and everyone else knew it too. I tended to be a loner, immersed in music and books. I was often teased for being a sissy (or harsher phrases). I didn't like getting teased, but I couldn't see what was wrong with being a sissy. Being like boys just seemed dumb. Puberty was awful. I sometimes imagined myself being female, and that idea felt nice. I generally got along well with adults, not with people my own age. I couldn't wait to finish high school and get the hell out of town.
Z
Well Nero, you ask some dang good questions. I'll give this one a try just to get things started.
I don't have many vivid memories of early childhood, but I know that I was a small frail child with asthma that kept me from doing a lot of things. I do have several memories from 1st - 3rd grade or so. One is that during recess, most of the boys played a strange version of soccer, but I preferred to play on the swings and monkey bars with the girls, even though I knew they gave you cooties. I also have several images in my mind of times all the boys were playing or doing something, and I wasn't part of them. Lots of time alone or with 1 or 2 other weirdos, (all of which were among the smartest kids in the class).
In 5th - 6th grade, the guys would go outside at recess, and the girls would stay inside and dance. I stayed inside and played DJ. With the girls, but not really.
I also remember that the whole time I was growing up, the person I most wanted to be like was my cousin who was a year older than I. She was so cool. I was able to see her a lot in the summers when she would spend 2 or 3 weeks camping with us at the lake. We did all kinds of things, and she was my best friend.
Then puberty came. She got to grow breasts and look so nice in that two piece bathing suit. I didn't. I do remember riding in the boat one time with my two boy cousins (3 & 5 years older than me), and being very happy that my legs didn't have hair on them (and looked nice and smooth) whereas their legs were all hairy and yucky. Friggin puberty...first hair started "down there" then in the armpits. Next thing I knew, it had spread everywhere, and I was caught in a torrent of Testosterone stupidity.
Still, I managed to have as many girls that were friends as guys during high school. Actually, it may have been more girls than guys, but looking back, I think there was an element of "liking liking" going on that I had no clues about. I know I had several friends I ran around with that kept waiting for me, the guy, to make a move. I know that now...back then I really didn't even think about it. There were girls I liked and wanted to date, and there were girls that were friends.
In high school, I wasn't part of the "in crowd" but I was one of the ringleaders in the Band / Geek circles. Heck, I was even Drum Major. The best part of that was hanging out with the girls who twirled their batons...I even learned to do it a little. (I know, cool, eh?)
So, I think as a younger child, I was not really part of the boys or girls groups. Rather, I stayed by myself in between the groups, sometimes joining one group or the other as I wanted, (or they would let me). By high school, I had found a way (don't ask me how) to be a guy, but still have lots of friends that were girls. Funny how it all makes sense now, as back then, I had no idea how unusual that all was.
I'm still not sure if it was being an androgyne, or just one the geeks that made things they way they were, but I have a feeling that both were heavily involved.
I don't know if that answered your question, Nero, or if I just had something to tell and you gave me the opening. In any case, hope it was close enough.
......L
Posted on: June 12, 2008, 10:47:16 PM
Quote from: Zythyra on June 12, 2008, 10:33:42 PM
I generally got along well with adults, not with people my own age. I couldn't wait to finish high school and get the hell out of town.
Dang it, Z, you beat me...guess it took too long to type my life story. ::)
Me too on the adults. And, while I didn't leave town after high school, when I moved out, I got my phone listed with just my initials and not my name...didn't really want anything to do with the folks from then.
....L
Androgyne child? I ran around all day slaying dragons and sith lords. I could be a prince one day and a princess the next. Even as a child though, I had strong desires to be female. The kind where you get so depressed because you just can't accept that it can't happen, and you cry and cry.
As puberty happened, these feelings intensified. But I can't say entirely, the focus was in the heart and not in the body. As far as the body goes, it was my new best friend.
I mean really, I discovered if I squeezed my legs together really hard or if I humped something, it felt good. The best way some of you could describe it is discovering that after surgery when you press a certain button, you get a dose of morphine.
At about 13 though, I'd somehow come to the conclusion of what I was and what I had to do, and I did it. I tried to transition smoothly, but somehow it got botched up when I went to the first day of school the next year in a skirt. Noone knew I wasn't a girl. All they saw was some hyperactive very friendly girl that for the first three days of school was become a major hit. Then the rumors started... and by the end of a day somehow noone would friggin shutup about me, and it wasn't that nice what they were saying either. In the end I was put off the mones and made to go through my birth-assigned puberty, to some degree.
Those times were the only times in my life i felt myself. Those are the times in my life I wish more than anything I could go back to, which obviously says it means I was pretty damned happy.
Quote from: Nero on June 12, 2008, 09:11:57 PM
I want to know about the androgyne child and dysphoria.
I'm not sure I ever was one. I knew I was a boy -- there was plenty of evidence -- and although I wanted to be a girl I just thought that was something boys did (I did and I was a boy, q.e.d.). I didn't really succeed at being happy doing boys' stuff, though, and eventually the 'male' role I drifted into was a pretty nerdy one. That role later developed into a full-fledged androgyne gender role and identity, but I don't think it started that way.
Puberty was a weird experience, and not especially in a nice way. The testosterone made me behave in a lot of ways like a pubescent boy did, and while I realised it at the time that didn't really help. On the one hand I was dismayed by the physical changes, on the other hand happy that at least in this I was fitting in. And of course, I've since understood most boys dream about having sex
with the cutest girl in their class, not
as her. ::)
Nfr
I never fit in and I do know that I always felt different never had many friends my "action figures" spent more time kissing than fighting each other I've seen my body as ugly for as long as i can remember I hit puberty before most of my class and was teased because of it. I don't remember much of my childhood or teen years Not sure how much is because I don't want to remember it and how much was removed by doctors as part of my treatment for my brain tumor I can remember more bad than good times which is sad because i know i had good times to.
I did not even realize there was much of a difference until I went to school (catholic) boys on one side, girls on the other. It never seemed to bother me except to the degree that if I ever got beat at any school stuff it was by one of the girls. I hung out with girls in my neighborhood, but they did not go to my school.
By high school I had met some people, hippies, yippies, yappies and all that, they were freaks, so was I. I fit in because I had some skills that they could use, and some of the girls liked me, helped me, and did other things too.
Hmm...good question! Well, I always played with boys. All my cousins were boys, my best friends in primary school were boys. I played sports and was generally considered a 'tomboy'. I do think that I wanted to be a boy, but I thought it was okay because we're the same except for the bits.
Puberty was pretty awful. I hated getting my period and having to wear a bra and shave and all that girly crap. I tried to be like other girls, but I realized that I had no idea what I was doing. Mimicking can only get you so far, you know? So I did the best I could, but I think a lot of people thought I was weird...or a lesbian (still not sure why that came up and still comes up so often...I've never shown any indications that I like girls...rather, my bedroom walls were COVERED with pictures of boys...gotta love those teeny bopper magazines...well, in middle school at least).
I kind of always picked things that were considered more masculine...like in band, I was in the percussion section and in marching band I played the tenors (or quints/quads...whatever you want to call them)...it's pretty rare to find a girl playing them or snare (actually, our line was mostly girls for a while, but anyway). I focused on math and science (because I thought I had to, but I was actually okay at them in high school...college, not so much). I was the only girl on the varsity academic team my senior year (let's just tattoo "GEEK" on my forehead right now). I always related to boys in the books I read or movies I saw. I listened to the same music my guy friends did and read the books that they did. My interests always lie more with guys than girls, usually.
Mostly, I tried to push all those feelings away. But deep down I definitely knew that I wanted to be a boy. (not a man though, a boy...I think being a man would be scarier than being a woman in some ways...) One of the best compliments I ever got was my cousin saying I throw like a boy when we were playing catch.
Actually, my grandmother would always call us 'boys' when we came in (that would be me, my female cousin, or our neighbors female granddaughters)...that always made me happy.
'twas puberty what done in old Reebs.
I just remembered something. When I played house with my cousin, I was always the daddy and she was the mommy. It wasn't like we talked about it or anything, that's just how it was. (it wasn't something we did often, just one or two times...but I distinctly remember being the daddy and being happy about it)
Quote from: Annwyn on June 13, 2008, 07:54:15 AM
Androgyne child? I ran around all day slaying dragons and sith lords. I could be a prince one day and a princess the next. Even as a child though, I had strong desires to be female. The kind where you get so depressed because you just can't accept that it can't happen, and you cry and cry.
As puberty happened, these feelings intensified. But I can't say entirely, the focus was in the heart and not in the body. As far as the body goes, it was my new best friend.
I mean really, I discovered if I squeezed my legs together really hard or if I humped something, it felt good. The best way some of you could describe it is discovering that after surgery when you press a certain button, you get a dose of morphine.
At about 13 though, I'd somehow come to the conclusion of what I was and what I had to do, and I did it. I tried to transition smoothly, but somehow it got botched up when I went to the first day of school the next year in a skirt. Noone knew I wasn't a girl. All they saw was some hyperactive very friendly girl that for the first three days of school was become a major hit. Then the rumors started... and by the end of a day somehow noone would friggin shutup about me, and it wasn't that nice what they were saying either. In the end I was put off the mones and made to go through my birth-assigned puberty, to some degree.
Those times were the only times in my life i felt myself. Those are the times in my life I wish more than anything I could go back to, which obviously says it means I was pretty damned happy.
GO ON AIM TOMORROW SO WE CAN TALK. =l Your experiences are touching, and curious to me, cause our approach is so different.
-Xen
I remember quite bit about my childhood. The earliest toy I remember was my Pinocchio doll. My friend from pre-school days was Elaine, who lived next door. In kindergarten, the teacher, Miss Mannheimer, took the class photo, but all you can see of me is the very top of my head. I was the second shortest all through elementary school, only Daniel Ratner was smaller (one of the delights of visiting in Italy in later days has been the ability to see over crowds).
I played dolls with girls and football with boys (and was the first among my friends to throw a spiral pass). There was a time about fourth grade when boys would harass girls. I went along with that for a short while, decided it was stupid, and went back to being friends with both sexes. In elementary school sports, when we chose teams, I was typically among the last to be chosen. In high school gym, we often had the option of playing pickup basketball or sitting on the sidelines chatting, while the teachers concentrated on the more athletically talented. I chose chatting. As a college freshman, I chose a year of ROTC to escape the gym requirement.
A lot of fighting was the rule in my neighborhood. I never felt it was directed at me personally. At some point, it occurred to me that I rarely lost a fight, because I stoically took whatever was dished out until the attacker tired. As the years went on, and the attackers graduated to knives, I learned to keep them talking indefinitely. I was never willing to fight with weapons; local police advised me to learn to do so or move out. That was about the time my parents moved the family to the suburbs.
A museum, housed in a castle brought from Spain, was across the street from my elementary school. Its collection consisted largely of armor, ships' figureheads, antique musical instruments, and Frederick Remington paintings of the old West. It was a super place to dream, but you had to get someone 12 or older to go with you. Down the street was a branch of the public library. I used to carry home an armload of books (14 was the maximum allowed) every fortnight. After I'd read every history book in the young peoples section, I started in on the adult collection. What I'd read and learned carried me through high school with a minimum of further studying.
Tuesdays, my mother would take me to the Children's Symphony concerts. Saturdays, the train would carry me downtown. My first stop would be the Natural History Museum to walk through the displays and take in the weekly movie. Then the Art Institute, and lunch at DeMet's. After lunch, I'd wander along the lake to the Aquarium, Planetarium, and small airport. Generally by myself.
I was never ostracized nor lacked for friends. Nor was I ever aware of an "In" group. Friends regarded me as a "brain", though my grades were never the highest. When the family moved to the suburbs and when I went to college in another state, I lost contact with all childhood friends.
I spent a lot of time in the kitchen watching my mother cook. Regrettably, by the time I thought to ask for recipes, she already was developing Alzheimer's. She had me follow my dad around as he puttered so I would learn from him.
Puberty didn't make a big impact. I remember sitting next to Grete when we were six, listening to the children's choir, lamenting that boys voices need change. When my beard came in, I was excited to receive one of those newfangled electric shavers. But that toy lost interest when shaving became a daily chore, adding time to my already lengthy morning ritual. Never have I been anything but slow. A friend once showed me some crude pornography. Boring. I regarded sex as overrated. Girls have always been friends, but have to remind me that they occasionally like being regarded as sexual objects.
Christine Jorgenson made news as I was beginning puberty. I read her biography while standing at the book rack in the drugstore, and wished I could be her. But I had no interest in the showgirl role she chose nor in interacting romantically with men, so sex change quickly ceased to be an option. As schoolwork, which had come so easily, became a puzzle I couldn't seem to solve, any thoughts of dysphoria were shoved in the background. I worried that my looks were so feminine, and my interests so un-masculine, that I would be found out at a glance. Gradually I settled with just quietly being me. At one time, I thought I could get along with anyone, but have found I do upset some, and their reaction upsets me in return. Nero, I always identify with your one-time tagline: my mouth gets me in trouble, too.
This posting is probably longer than any of you will read, but between my daughter's graduation, my brother-in-law's wedding, and my mother-in-law's visit, I have not had the opportunity to post in a while and it's all been building up inside.
Wishing all a quiet Sunday,
S
Nice to see you again, Simone! :icon_wave-nerd:
Quote from: Nero on June 12, 2008, 09:11:57 PM
I want to know about the androgyne child and dysphoria. I want to know how you felt as a child regarding your gender id. I want to know if you experienced discomfort going through puberty. What you felt about your body changing.
I was probably between 5 and 7 years old when I first something along the lines of "Oh, well, I was born a boy and there's nothing I can do about it. I don't get to wear skirts, makeup and earrings."
Like many young boys, I thought girls had cooties and I didn't want anything to do with them. At the same time, I was fascinated by and envious of their appearances.
By puberty, I had begun to wish I'd develop some bizarre life-threatening illness that could only be cured with a sex-change operation.
I wouldn't think much about these things for a long time. Throughout highschool I pursued girlfriends, though the first time I had sex was with another boy. My only regret there was that I lacked the self-confidence to respond in the way I think I should have.
Quote from: Nero
And about the social part. If you had trouble fitting in or being ostricized with your birth sex peers or just in general what it was like socially.
Socially, I was ostracized. I think part of this had to do with my stutter, which was pretty bad when I was a kid. Also, I was skinny, weaker, and slower than most kids my age. I hated being called girly and vehemently denied being gay. By highschool, I was covered in body hair. This served to raise my manly status in the eyes of my peers, most of whom were hairless. I could take off my shirt in the lockerroom and boldly declare to my detractors that all that hair was due to BALLS!
Hey, I was 16. Whaddya expect?
I think another reason I was ostracized was that I really didn't like sports and didn't understand how cars worked. Oh, and I would cry when I got hurt. Boys, apparently, aren't supposed to do that.
But the one I really didn't understand was how my musical tastes were supposed commentaries on my sexuality and gender identity.
Nowadays, I'm pretty much a recluse. I'd like to think that I'm not unfriendly, but the truth is that I can be.
My childhood wasn't that profound. As i've spoken of before I don't fit in, and as a child that was a brutal environment in the schoolyard. I eventually became a loner and I learned not to trust people (and i'm still the same today). Instead, I learned to do solitary things like read and explore the woods around where I lived. I also hung out with the misfits, and while none of us were happy at least we all belonged to a group. I also happened to be a rather bright kid, and when I cared (most times I didn't) I could turn out spectacular schoolwork. Rather, I found school boring, and really didn't care much about it. I carried my "difference" into my mid 40's when I finally figured it out. It was a long time to be under that cloud. There was a lot to hate about my childhood >:(
QuoteI want to know how you felt as a child regarding your gender id. I want to know if you experienced discomfort going through puberty. What you felt about your body changing.
I didn't feel much of anything. I don't really hate the gender I am now. My gender is just a roll of the dice. I could've been the opposite sex, and it wouldn't have mattered all that much. Let me add that although I don't hate my gender, I don't like it much either.
QuoteAnd about the social part. If you had trouble fitting in or being ostricized with your birth sex peers or just in general what it was like socially.
Yes I had some trouble fitting in. I wasn't exactly like the others. I never did feel quite right. One of the things I hated was gym class in middle school. Unlike most everyone else who seemed to really enjoy athletics, I would rather take a low grade and just sit out. I also took a lot of teasing in that class. I was an easy target because of my personality and my behavior.
After middle school I became a real loner. I lost touch with virtually all my friends. I didn't really make any new ones. High school was just really boring. I would usually bring a book to class because it was so boring to listen to the teacher's lectures.
So things weren't as good as I'm making it out to be.
I would think that being equally comfortable with both boys and girls was one of the better parts of this.
Thanks for telling me how off the mark and obvious I was. The last thing I want to do is to be disrespectful to the people who wrote such good things before me.
I don't want to derail this topic. You don't have to reply to this.
Quote from: je on June 16, 2008, 12:18:17 PM
Thanks for telling me how off the mark and obvious I was. The last thing I want to do is to be disrespectful.
???
Je, I didn't find anything offensive or disrespectful in your posts!
Z
Quote from: tekla on June 16, 2008, 09:32:03 AM
I would think that being equally comfortable with both boys and girls was one of the better parts of this.
It is nowadays. Back in school, well, it didn't help all that much to have twice as many people to be shy with.
Nfr
Uhh... Show-off Story time?! ;D
So, let's see.
As far as I'm told, I was a little "uncommon" from a very early age. Not "strange", but not like most little boys. The story giong back the most is that I refused to fight back when evil three year olds took my shovel in the sandbox, despite my mother trying to encourage me. I ignored them, they lost interest, and I was out of trouble. Despite some quite harmless struggles with my little brother (I was often shocked how other siblings abuse each other), I can remember being in a fight only once, and it was with a girl who practically jumped me from behind a corner.
I had some struggles in school at first, but it was attributed back then to my young age (by far the youngest in my class) and when I transfered back to second grade in mid-school year, everything was fine from then on. I was certainly not one of the cool guys, but got along well with the boys from a similar "liberal academic upper middlecass" background (I think all of them have an A-level degree now). It worked well until about age 14 or 15, when most of them turned into dating-obsessed, smoking drunkards whose lives revolved solely around "parties", the epitome of a dreadfull and undesireable environment for me. Of course, they changed and I didn't, so we got distanced. But all the time I never was the victim of abuse as the "socialy difficult" boys in the other classes. I still got along well with most of them and after 10th grade most students left school with their 2nd-level degree anyway and all who remained were those who were smart and interested in education and obviously of higher social manners. School was very nice again.
Though my sexuality emerged when I guess I had to be 11, I never had any desire to enter the dating-circus. To have someone would have been nice, but there was no need and also nobody in sight whom I could have considered. Though I did start to try to get a girls attention when I was 19 (fun thing about it, we had had mostly the same classes since 5th grade, but never had any real contact over those 8 years :D). About that time I first really thought about my gender and realized that most stereotypes about guys are SO true, I just never thought so because it all didn't apply to me. It was at a moment when I realized that really nice and intelligent guys can be totaly silly gofuses, whose dumb jokes are all but funny (still, I often smirked, when the girls just rolled their eyes in anoyance). As we did a lot of molecular biology at that time, I can remember that one day on my way home I was thinking if it would be possible for a human to develop a male anatomy while having xx-chromosomes (which happens in many animals, though mostly reptiles and amohibians). It would clearly answer some quaestions. But somehow, I didn't pay much attention to it and forgot about it. I only remberered again some days ago.
The first time I had real intentions for a relationship was when I turned 20. She was a good friend of mine (and four years older), but thought it wouldn't be a good idea with us, now I agree with her. Nothing happend, I got to know a nice guy (probably even older than her), and one night in bed realized I had a cruh on him and that apparently I was bisexual. The weired part about it was, that it never made me feel bad or uncomfortable. Probably one of those moments when having two loving and understanding with very liberal outlooks really pays off. :D But I realized he wouldn't be a good idea either, and we lost contact before anything really happened (though I'm quite sure there was some sexual tension between us at times). Once he mad a mostly joking remark (I think) that it would be cool if I changed my sex, because we would make a nice couple. Again, I didn't think to much about it.
And I think it was about two years later (nor about a year ago), that after about a week of going inside me and doing some research, I got to the conclusion that I am somewhat along the lines what I now know as androgyn.
Childhood wasn't really difficult to me for most time. Particulary later I often felt a bit out of the place, because of my more intelectual inclination and most boys my age were hormone driven dumbasses. But from grade 5 to 7, I had been integrated into the "boys stay away from girls" system and it somewhat stuck, leaving me drifting for a year or two. But earlier, it never was really an issue for me. I had a lot of friends, both boys and girls, and pictures from my birthday all show a medium horde of kids in our house and I got to pick every one of them out myself very early. None were there because our mothers thought it was a good idea. I guess I could have been a quite difficult child, but with my parents I was in very good hands and they were more than able to handle and introverted but avid boy.
But, as I really came out just a year ago, I don't think you could speak of an average transgender/androyne childhood. But which of those are ever? ;)
QuoteAbout that time I first really thought about my gender and realized that most stereotypes about guys are SO true, I just never thought so because it all didn't apply to me.
Yeah! That's me, but with girls. I was pretty oblivious to it.
Quote from: Jaimey on June 15, 2008, 01:52:38 PM
Nice to see you again, Simone! :icon_wave-nerd:
Thanks. Nice to be missed. Real nice.
S
I look back on my youth and discover how lucky I was. My GID wasn't an issue until I had grown into an adult. The following is how I got my name "Oweena"
From the time I can remember, I felt the difference but could not identify what it was. Besides what does a small child know? Even at the tender age of two or three I had the urge to wear woman's clothes. I felt it was wrong and if found out I would be punished for it. I had found a pair of panties and hid them in the barn and would put them on as the urge hit me I would have something to wear. I would spend hours with the Sears and Roebuck catalog looking at the woman's clothes wishing they were mine. By the time I was to start school all of that was about to change.
I had a female cousin that came to spend the summer with us that had the prettiest clothes. She was older that me and about my size. Once while every one was away from the ranch, I tried on some of her things even her shoes and everything fit. I would have given anything to have those beautiful clothes. As luck would have it I was not long in waiting.
When I became of school age, I was to attend a one-room school. The people who had children attending the school paid the teacher. Each family in turn took her in and gave her room and board for the year. The year I was to start was also my family's turn to board her.
One evening I did something to be punished. I was going to get another whipping. I got a lot of whippings. My father had a short fuse when it came to me. Some times I would get six of seven whippings every day. This evening was to be different. "If you are going to act like a girl, we will just have to dress you like one." My father said. Everyone was surprised as they all knew I should have gotten another beating. I was overjoyed at the thought, but I also knew that if I didn't put a show of fight that my father would drop the subject. I fought like a tiger being very careful not to harm those beautiful clothes.
Up to this time I had long hair. I wasn't to get my first hair cut until I started school. As it turned out wearing my cousin's clothes I looked really good. My teacher asked my father how long I was going to have to wear those clothes. My father said "How about a month. I think we will send him to school dressed also." I couldn't believe my good luck. I was going to be a girl for a month and not get punished for it. "What are we to call her?" my teacher asked and my father said, "You pick a name." She said, "There will be several girls named Roberta. What is her middle name?" When she was told my middle name was Owen. From off the top of her head came "OWEENA!! You add an (E) and an (A) and you have a name that no one else has." (To this day I have yet to find a woman named Oweena. The closest is Rowena.) I was now dressed like a girl. I had a girl's name. I was to be a girl for a month.
My mother took me to town and bought me some girl clothes. Not thinking that I was only going to be a girl for a month, she bought enough to last me for the year. The month passed. I was expecting to have to change back into a boy. Nothing happened. I finished the school year, the next summer and by the time I was to go into the second grade, my mother took me to town and bought me more girls' clothes. The beatings had stopped. When I was punished, I was punished like my sisters. I learned then that there were advantages to being a girl and I didn't want it to stop.
When I went to junior high school, I went as Oweena. I got away with pretending to be a girl even into my senior year. I even had a date for the senior prom.
Then I had the rudest awaking I could imagine. I had to face society and then my troubles began and my GID became a major issue. For 60 years I have fought to be myself and finally in the last ten years I am now being acepted in some circles. Makes the fight worth it.
Quote from: Jaimey on June 16, 2008, 06:54:42 PM
QuoteAbout that time I first really thought about my gender and realized that most stereotypes about guys are SO true, I just never thought so because it all didn't apply to me.
Yeah! That's me, but with girls. I was pretty oblivious to it.
Both men and women are every so often shouting "why?!" and roll their eyes. Maybe they don't really mean it, but somehow I can alwas understand both sides. Rolling my eyes and grinning at the same time.
I think we could become great friends. :D
Quote from: Jora on June 17, 2008, 12:59:13 PM
Both men and women are every so often shouting "why?!" and roll their eyes. Maybe they don't really mean it, but somehow I can alwas understand both sides. Rolling my eyes and grinning at the same time.
I think we could become great friends. :D
Aw. :laugh: I feel all warm and fuzzy now...
I can always relate to both too! (Personally, I think it's better, but that's just me :D)
I remember a very happy childhood where I pursued one obsession after another and anyone who wanted to join me was welcome.
At school I was with the 'other' group (male, female and other) we made plays together and practiced dances and stuff. I was intelligent and could laugh at a joke so I was pretty welcome in the boys and girls groups unless they were playing, then there wasn't a place for me.
At home I planned how to save all the animals, how to build bird wings, rode on my bicycle, climbed large bushes and played with handpuppets. I started writing stories and scripts for them.
I always had a book on me, either a notebook with a story I was writing or something I was reading. I preferred conversations with grown ups and they found me cute and charming. I had more girl friends but my best friend was a boy.
Then I moved to secondary school and moved town at the same time. I spent four years veering between trying to hide from everybody (in my books, stories, tv and monkey island), and trying to be noticed (by wearing odd stuff, singing at the wrong time).
I lived in a college in cambridge from the ages 11-15, I played football with the boys who also lived with the grounds, I read a lot, I acted and was in several plays. I often upset, unable to really connect with anyone, male or female.
Before the end of secondary school we moved again, this time everything about me, my clothes to accent was exotic. People were interested in meeting someone who hadn't lived the whole time in one town. People tried to bully me, but I even revelled in that attention - I started to get my confidence back.
Quote from: Annwyn on June 13, 2008, 07:54:15 AM
Androgyne child? I ran around all day slaying dragons and sith lords. I could be a prince one day and a princess the next. Even as a child though, I had strong desires to be female. The kind where you get so depressed because you just can't accept that it can't happen, and you cry and cry.
As puberty happened, these feelings intensified. But I can't say entirely, the focus was in the heart and not in the body. As far as the body goes, it was my new best friend.
I mean really, I discovered if I squeezed my legs together really hard or if I humped something, it felt good. The best way some of you could describe it is discovering that after surgery when you press a certain button, you get a dose of morphine.
At about 13 though, I'd somehow come to the conclusion of what I was and what I had to do, and I did it. I tried to transition smoothly, but somehow it got botched up when I went to the first day of school the next year in a skirt. Noone knew I wasn't a girl. All they saw was some hyperactive very friendly girl that for the first three days of school was become a major hit. Then the rumors started... and by the end of a day somehow noone would friggin shutup about me, and it wasn't that nice what they were saying either. In the end I was put off the mones and made to go through my birth-assigned puberty, to some degree.
Those times were the only times in my life i felt myself. Those are the times in my life I wish more than anything I could go back to, which obviously says it means I was pretty damned happy.
I read this again and it just makes me want to cry.
I apologize for the length.
I don't really remember much from my childhood.
Didn't really care about people, I was always doing something or some other. All by my self. I wouldn't start conversations, I would be thinking all the time...
Actually, if anything defines my past, is that I've never been able to stop thinking...
Didn't really noticed people until I was like 18 or so, for a while, then I promptly lost interest until a few years ago, but I don't feel any connection on to them. They're externals and matter little in my world.
I moved a lot when I was young, so I never got to have many deep friends, at most they were the superficial kind you get from being in the same places a lot of time.
Usually girls would start talking to me, and I'd just reply and such, I had little interest in starting conversations, until they asked me to tell them a story or say stuff, then I would talk for hours. I've always liked making things up.
I noticed girls wore prettier clothes than guys, so I went and bought my own skirt at like 15 or so, and wore it to bed (I had my own room by then)
Hm.. Porn, masturbation, etc, but I never had sexual interest towards other beings, male, female or whatever, until at around 19, because when my sister married I got a girlfriend who was a friend of my sister.
Physically, I've always felt that my body is a bother, but I never quite figured out why. I can be femenine or masculine at any time, and it doesn't bothers me that people find me gay or whatever, I never had to "hide what I am", I just never figured that people would *care* what I am.
Once I went to a pool with people from my class, and got complimented on my superior leg shaving skills. And they also laughed at the size of my penis (the water was cold XD)
Hmm. At school's breaks I would mostly go and walk alone, trying to find random garbage on the ground, stones, caps, silly stuff like that.
There was a time I was with a little group of anime geek girls, and I never felt any closeness to them, I just hung with them cuz I couldn't find anything better to do.
I cried a bunch of times in front of everybody, and I wished I could just go away from it all, not suicide, just go somewhere where people wouldn't bother me.
So I became a hikki some years later.
I still struggle with my loner ways.
It's just that people are so strange, and their lives break my head, it's like, they have lots of things to do, and instead of doing them, they complain about the things which I can see that they could just solve. But of course, it's not that easy.
But I've always had a certain disposition to do things on my own... One of my first books was the bible, and the whole encyclopedia, it was like 12 volumes or so. I read a few dictionaries, too. I once tried reading the telephone directory, but the listings were way too boring, the ads were interesting. Made me think about the things that the people behind the little squares of ink would do.
I taught myself everything I know, all my teachers sucked at teaching me stuff. They tried, but usually I already know what they wanted to teach me, and I just didn't bother with school.. Sometimes I think it was a waste of my time. I would've have been happier if I had started working younger. And apprenticeship or some such.
I only got into one "fight" with this guy who I hated, in the middle of the main hall, and I grabbed his neck for like 30 seconds until I thought "WAT AM I DOING" and let go. Afterwards, he never bothered me again.
Only wore black on black, with black and black. I was a gothling. Grew out of the black clothes but I'm the gothiest goth I know.
idk... I don't get a feeling between "childhood" and "adulthood", there was never any sort of event which would make me think "that's it, I'm an adult now" or whatever. I often feel like I'm still a child.
Again, I apologize for the length... It's the alcohol, you know ?
I have vivid memories from my childhood. I can honestly say that the last few years have been like a slow awakening to who I really am.
Looking back, I am thankful that my free and open minded parents allowed and encouraged me to cross/push boundaries (gender related) and never felt the need to harness me to a particular box and label me.
I am an only child and have always thought that my 'strangness' was because of my alternate upbringing.
My parents were hippies complete with caravan and for the first few years of my life we travelled all over the place, sometimes stopping for a day, sometimes a month.
My parents thought that they should do settle down and try and lead a 'normal' life when I was at the age of starting school . So my parents decided to drop the anchor in what can only be described as the most backwards, small hick town south of the equator where the no of people in the town was only slightly higher than all their iq's put together. :)
I became great friends with a girl (Tess - Major tomboy) and her and I hung with the boys. The best memories I have are being in the muck hills (old coal mine shafts that had collapsed..quite safe I'm sure) riding motorbikes with the guys, playing cricket with cane toads in our pj's after dark, trying our best to derail trains and causing chaos in Church on Sundays. I loved to go fishing with my dad and would often insist on wearing a dress, one of the few times that my mum could get me near a dress or a skirt. Bless my mum and dad..they never batted an eye.
By the age of 12 I could strip a lawn mower engine to basic parts and put it back together again by myself and I would also cook 2 or 3 course dinners for the family. I could knit, sew, cut hair, drive a car, drive a tractor use a chainsaw, do the washing and go hunting with my dad. I loved every single one of those activities.
I would dress boyish, girlish and often a combination of the two. When my hair was cut short, I would pretend it was long and when I had it long I would often tuck it up and pretend it was short. Frustrated my poor mother.
I basically lived in a bubble. I didn't really pick up on the fact that I was different. I always assumed that the other girls were the ones with the issues and that I was the norm.
Then came secondary school. It took me an hour to get to school by bus which I absolutely hated, trapped in a metal can on wheels with girly girls and macho guys. I went from a primary school of 69 kids to a high school which had over 1500 kids. I was devoured. I honestly don't remember much of my first year at high school. I think my brain has purposely blocked a lot of what when on.
This is where and when I started to realise that I had been living in a completely different universe to these people. Boys had a certain role to play and girls had their role to play and I just didn't fit.
I knew that being 'myself' was not going to tolerated and I would get into some serious trouble if I didn't go undercover. There was a huge battle raging within me. I took a lot of it out on my mum and dad, tried laying the blame at their feet for raising me the way they did. I just couldn't find my niche anywhere. And to make matters worse this was the same year that all the physical changes happened..uuuggghhh! The boys would no longer hang out with Tess and I once we developed boobs and they no longer saw us as buddies. Very difficult year for which I only have a handful of memories.
Slowly I learnt to 'act' more like a girl during school times. Unconsciously I began to live 2 very different lives, school/girly mode and home/'?' mode.
Senior school
Well this is where things got kind of complicated. I spent a lot of time playing sports and was quite fit. I had long curly blonde hair and I was getting a lot of male attention...Awkward!!! I liked it but I didn't know if I wanted it and certainly didn't know what to do with it.
I have always and still do, feel indifferent to my physical self. Some days I wished I had some bits, some days I wished I had no bits and of course other days I wished I had all bits.
I have an extremely warped sense of humour and outlook on life but I still managed to walk the minefields and find some good friends who I guess you could say were misfits too. A lot were males and a lot of them were gay.
I didn't want a boyfriend, I didn't want a girlfriend, I didn't really know what I wanted. I used school time to organise my social calendar and to observe students' behaviour.
For me, school was like starting a gigantic life lesson jigsaw puzzle, sorting out the pieces, building the framework, lots of observing and then diving in to try different things to see if it fits (and even trying to make pieces fit when clearly they don't belong there!) making some good choices and making some not so good choices.
After completing school I knew I didn't want to stay an extra second in my hick home town and naturally I joined the Air Force, 'cause that's what all girls do right?
Time for me to get back to that jigsaw...........
During my schooling years I didn't fit I was different Girls wouldn't play with me because I had boy germs. boys wouldn't play with me because I was different I don't know how they knew I was different or why I changed schools twice because I didn't fit in with the other kids I was very lonely never having more then one friend and that friend always had other friends that they would rather be playing with at lunch or whatever. after the first change of school it went from bad to worse from co ed primary to a Male only school that had upper primary and high school not only was the flack from students worse the teachers seemed to think it was there role to toughen me up I spent 3 years trying my hardest to fit in by day and crying myself to sleap most nights then I changes to a co-ed high school and I was much happier I was able to do drama and talk to girls without pretending I was doing sexual things to them, I even had 2 friends toward the end of the year neither of them fit the normal schoolyard society they were of different nationalities and didn't fit for other reasons at the end of that year I got sick and was diagnosed with a brain tumor all of a sudden I had a reason why I always felt different but as I met other teens with brain tumors & different forms of cancer I realized that I had issues that no one else did among the teen cancer support group The main issue was getting healthy with sexual issues hardly being spoken about. I was also in a youth group with the local church where I was accepted but I didn't feel like I fit everyone else was grouped with a few friends in their own clicks that group was the only place I felt accepted for a long time. but when I tried explaining that I felt different saying that men are from Mars, Women are from Venus I'm from Pluto I would just get laughs, as did any cross dressing and when I said I felt more like a lesbian then a straight guy they dismissed it as me trying to be weird for the sake of being weird I had a lot of confusion that I needed to work through but no outlet and I was struggling to stay alive with my treatment for the brain tumor and all the issues with drug side effects and memory problems not to mention having all the 'normal' teenage issues not being resolved (being a rebel, first love, finding independence etc) all being put on hold until I was healthy enough I didn't stop living with olds till 2 months b4 I turned 30 the whole my gender is different threw me for six starting about 3 months after I turned 30 turning me into a blob of mess for about 6 months b4 I realized what I was this site helped a lot at the time.
Sorry I think I may have gone off track what was the question again?
....
for a long time I was in denial of not being Male and I took offence everytime I'd hear comments Like "all guys are [insert sterotypical insult here]" to me it translated to "you are ....." because I was tring so hard to be what the world was telling me to be without sacrificing my values. I now know that when I see all Males are... it isn't refering to me but it still hurts because it is mostly said by someone leaving a bad relationship by someone who I would have liked to have been in a relationship with -thinking I never would have treated you like that but I wasn't man enough for her.
from my time at the all boys school I knew I saw females differently to the other guys I was never interested in doing anything sexual that the other guys would suggest. I was not interested in anything sexual with anyone and non sexual things (hugs talking about real things, and just having fun I was willing to do with anyone when I was about 16 or seventeen everytime I'd see a young couple I'd wish that was me but I always wished I was the girl which confused me into believing I was bi If I wanted to be the girl in a loving relationship I must have wanted to be with a guy subconsciously or so I thought, I even came out to my parrents as bi they dismissed it as me not having enough experience to know what I wanted as well as telling me all sorts homophobic lies about gays/bi/trans people
to discourage me from finding people like me, I then was really confused when I had the same thoughts when seeing my brother and his girlfriend yes I want to be her but no way would I want to be with him. I'm really sick of watching other people enjoying the company of another in a romantic way when I've never had that myself.
I have a number of early memories that I'm unsure If they ever happened because one of the main memory centers of the brain has been cut out leaving memories that might be a mixture of a few different times rolled into one or dreams mixed with reality and time discrepancies being very young in the house as it was a few years later not to mention the pain killers and anti epileptic meds making everything foggy during the teen years.
I'd love to see certain memories as they really happened from both my perspective and from a third person type of view (seeing me and the other people in the event
As a prepubescent child I didn't really think much about gender or roles. There was so much else going on. My parents for the most part never tried to push me into a pre-defined role of my birth sex, I was allowed to explore my interests as I wished and given support and encouragement in doing so.
Among other things I have struggled with undiagnosed ADHD for most of my life, and it has greatly impacted my ability to socialize with others. So I can't say whether or not I was ostracized for how I looked, which was rather androgynous right up until I started trying the uber-femme thing in late high school. I remember people being confused about my gender, though most of it was not negative. The negative stuff was usually for being female but not femme, however there was so much else I was bullied and harassed for.
When my body started changing I basically fought it all the way. I avoided bras for as long as I could and then I went with sports bras, until my mother finally did get me on the underwired cups and all that, but by then I was starting to do more and more femme presentation anyways. I think I wanted to be more accepted, by friends and by random strangers, by my romantic partners. Except my friends and family and romantic partners already accepted me for how I was. I have never, ever liked that I have female internal organs, and for years I associated with childfree communities because in them you can find women who feel similarly about removing their uterus. Except I never felt like I belonged in them either.
I remember being happy when others couldn't guess my gender easily. I've always hated being lumped in with "one of the girls." Once I started to make friends, they were usually the type who didn't differentiate their treatment of their friends based on gender. The few friends I have had who do change their behaviour to others based on gender, well they tend to end up treating me like a bit of both (sometimes this takes a while, but they always seem to come around to it.) Never just "one of the girls" or "one of the guys." I rotated through feeling like I belong in both groups, like I don't belong in either. I still rotate through this.
I think some of my experiences weren't so terrible because I was fortunate to be surrounded by people who, mostly, are accepting of more androgynous-looking females. And that's what I was for so long. Even my family tends toward that acceptance. And my environment has also really tended to consist of people who do very little boxing-in-others-based-on-gender-roles. Which is love. The older I get, the more exposed I become to people who -do-. It's confusing and frustrating. I hear "boys will be boys" and like phrases so much now, encounter so many similar attitudes. It feels good to smash those perceptions with my hammer of unique experience.
I freely acknowledge that all of this would be very, very different had I been assigned male at birth instead. Preaching to the choir here. Although it is a comfort that my younger brother was also allowed to explore his interests regardless of silly judgements about if they were "manly" enough for him to do so -- to a point, anyways.
I was an only child, and never got the idea that my parents thought I was "not right" in any way - there were no other daughters for mom to do girl stuff with or dad to do boy stuff with, so it seemed like I was expected to be everything to everyone, and that this was entirely normal. Gender just didn't seem to be an issue growing up, my parents had always called me by a gender neutral nickname, since I was a baby, and my mother made it quite known to me that she thought the parents of some kids I knew, the ones who wouldn't let their daughters have short hair or made them wear dresses to school all the time, or wouldn't let their sons play with dolls, weren't quite right, far too controlling, in her opinion. Played with kids of both genders, all sorts of toys, was probably raised as good a little androgyne as any!
Until I got to the age of where you actually *use* those bits that are different, gender was a pretty minor detail, though I always felt weird in skirts and dresses, like I was cross-dressing, and when I was old enough to have any say over it, I refused to have short hair, since I didn't want to be mistaken for a boy (though in baggy clothes, it did happen at least once anyways). Macho was better than weak, to me. Around middle school age, insults about sexuality seemed to be the big thing, and I was such a frequent target I expected to grow up lesbian or bisexual, even though I liked looking at pictures of hot guy celebs much more than the girl ones. Finally grew a decent sized chest in my last couple years of high school, so I could deal with insults about what I *was* by, for example, looking down and going "I am *so* a girl, you (whatever), so go (choose something unpleasant to do with yourself)!", looking at them like they're both blind and exceptionally stupid, and entirely a waste of time. This was before the internet, of course, and whatever I felt like inside, there's only two basic stock models of bodies to choose from, so what I had was what I had and why on earth would anyone ever think anything different, if I wasn't actively trying to specifically be the other? It only seemed to come into play when other people brought it there.
Of course, once you get out of "child" and into the age where the parts determine more than just how you pee, then things get a little more, er, bollocksed up...
When I look back at it, I was extremely oblivious to gender as a kid. The concept of gender was never on my radar back then, and I miss those times dearly. I didn't really notice a difference between boys and girls save for girls got to wear prettier clothes and had fancier hair, which I envied. I thought it was all fair game and acted accordingly, and this naturally included behavior attributed to the opposite-sex. My family didn't try to push gender roles onto me, but I think they were somewhat perplexed that I didn't act as socially expected. I would play with dolls with my female cousins and have tea parties & play house; and I loved science, trucks, building forts, and running around getting scraped up on the playground. Stereotypically these are all over the gender map, and the only time I had to think about what side they "belonged" to was when someone told me such and such action or interest is for girls or for boys. I always remember thinking: Why did they have to be divided in the first place?
I never really felt any dysphoria until middleschool, when gender was a bigger deal to everyone. I started to realize all the stereotypes and expectations of the different sexes. I didn't like these at all, and didn't feel they applied to me - they were someone else's rules, so I didn't pay attention to them and went along my way. I just felt different and concentrated on academics and general school stuff, as that interested me more than social/gender niceties.
I was very academically & artistically oriented rather than social, and some people would pick on me due to my quirks, though I did have a tough side and didn't shy away from confrontation when it was necessary - I was always one of the bigger/taller kids in any of my classes, I also had a bit of an attitude if pushed far enough, but was very reserved by nature. It took a bit of prodding to get me to react. Supposedly I was rather androgynous as random people often did not know what gender I was well into highschool. My childhood was drawn out. I matured slowly and went through puberty late, and was not very pleased with the changes. I continued to subconsciously resist and reject behavior/gender styereotypes, they made me feel uncomfortable and alienated. But thankfully I attended a selective artsy high-school in a pretty liberal area, and a sizable percentage of the student body were nonconformists by nature so it was never a big deal. I knew I was different but I really didn't care. I guess I kind of lucked out there.
If I had access to hormone blockers then I would have taken them in hindsight. It took me until my first year of college to realize that I never really 'did' gender, or to really think about gender identity (or lack thereof) in depth.
I fit in with the boys more. I had 2 older and 1 younger brother. I watched and played with "Transformers", "GI Joes", Leggos, but I also had dolls that I enjoyed playing with on my own too. My next older brother that is 2 yrs older than me was/is probably transgender or androgyn too. He was more feminine than I was. We freely switched between playing "Mom" or "Dad" when we played house. We were best friends most of the time before we hit our teen years. We always had many of the same interests and same friends in our small town Elementary school. He was athletic, and so was I.
I never felt like I fit in with the girls. My friends were all boys until I was about 10. There weren't many of them though either. I was a loner for the most part; academic and artistic, with my nose in a book most of the time. When I was little, my mother forced me to wear horrid pink, frilly dresses, jumpers, etc. I hated them. I always wore shorts under them to school. I always had skinned, torn up knees from playing so rough and made it a point to ruin my dresses. As I got older and could choose my own clothes, I was happy to get my brother's hand me downs of torn-knee jeans and polo shirts. I wanted to play on a sports team. My parents wouldn't let me. I wanted to join the Boy Scouts. I wanted to join Girl Scouts when I found out I couldn't. My parents wouldn't let me join them either- too progressive.
When puberty hit, I hated what it did to me. I bound my breasts and hips. Thankfully I didn't get huge boobs like my mother(one of my worst fears). I hated bras, but felt ashamed of my breasts and wore tight sports bras 24/7 to flatten them. I was late to get my period, lied to my girlfriends that I'd gotten it, but was so glad I hadn't yet. I didn't get it til' I was 14 1/2. I was ashamed when I did get it, embarrassed. I hid all evidence that I had such a nasty thing going on. I never was attracted to boys as more than friends until later either. All my girlfriends were boy crazy at 12-13 and I didn't really care one bit until I was 16ish. After that, I had a few crushes, but was embarrassed and afraid to act on them. It didn't help that I had merciless teases for a father and older brothers.
I don't think I was ostracized by my peers, but I just didn't fit in. They thought I was weird. They were right. I was very smart and nerdy too, which didn't help me. I was much taller at nearly 6' than any of my girlfriends and have a large build too. It made me feel fat compared to my girlfriends and I was always dieting or working out, but I was prone to build muscle mass. As a Freshman in HS, I out leg-pressed every boy in my PE class. My PE teacher tried to recruit me for discus and shotput, but I was more into academics by that time.
I always felt more comfortable in the company of adults or small children. I went to a different school than my church friends, didn't have many friends at school at all. I was also sick a lot and missed a lot of school. In hindsight, a lot of my illnesses were caused by an anxiey disorder. I am on the autistic spectrum, didn't know it at the time, of course. I just always felt like a fish out of water. I did Independent Study for my last 2 yrs of Highschool. I was much more comfortable not going to school. Things got better as I got older. I found Community college very rewarding, even though I didn't have friends there. I kept my social life separated from school; something that couldn't be done in HS. I took a lot of night classes too, since I worked full time.
I think I've covered what you were asking about. I'm an open book, so if you want any more info, feel free to ask.
TTFN,
Jenn
Who's up for a good life story, then? Fine, fine, I'll try and keep it brief. ;) This will mainly be to do with early puberty, my childhood proper was not really concerned too much with gender.
When I was little, I was fairly girly, wore pink dresses, had long blonde hair (that I insisted upon pain of tantrum was 'golden'), a roomful of toy rabbits, the whole shebang. (I also liked trains, and read books at a rate of knots far into the night even back then, but that's besides the point.) However, I was unusual for not really caring about whether I hung around with boys or girls. In primary school I didn't have any fixed friends. I was a little strange and preferred pretending to be a cat, collecting snails and telling people I secretly had magical powers. As you do. Blame it on the Asperger's. 8) Whereas at home I was a massive nudist that did nothing but read nonfiction sciencey books all the time, not sure what that says about me! :D
In secondary school it finally hit me- this prospect that one day I was going to have to grow up. The image I had of what I wanted to grow into wasn't realistic, however. It looked more like one of those androgynous boys you see in anime: soft, feminine skin, flat chest, no genitalia whatsoever. I had the strong want to be 'gender-neutral', the term I invented for this state at the time. I was stunned, when guess what? That didn't happen. Instead, a few months later, I started to develop as girls do. I was very proud of my flat chest as a child (I progressed from wandering round totally nude to wandering round topless), but when it started growing I refused to believe it. I delayed wearing a bra as long as possible (which I stopped when people started making comments in the changing rooms), and to this day I have never shaved my legs. At the same time as I was dealing with this, everyone else my age in the world seemed to suddenly start to split into two tribes, male and female. The females painted their faces strange colours and started to be very interested in what they wore. The males developed loud battlecries and persued the females. (Hey, it's my story and I'll tell it how I want to!) Anyway, it seemed as if everyone else in the world was listening to a message that I couldn't hear, compelling them to behave in ways that not long before they would never have done. My frustrated attempts to copy what they did met with failure, because the motivation just wasn't there. I was bullied for many things, among them was this perception that I was 'mannish'. Being depressed and whatnot means these years are a bit clouded.
I was very confused about my gender, because it kind of oscillates around, so one day I would be locked in the bathroom trying to bind my ever-expanding chest down with massacred school tights (don't know what my mother thought when they kept turning up under my bed, she must've been throwing them away), and the next I'd be dancing to Avril Lavigne (yes, I know, now shh :P) at a girly sleepover.
I still wish I had my child body. Like someone else said, I wish I'd been more forceful about things and got myself on hormone blockers in time. Or that I'd known more so I knew that it wasn't a flat choice between either being male or being female. However, that didn't happen, and so I deal with the set of circumstances I'm in now.
Trying to be a girl didn't work because I was too half-hearted about it. Trying to be a boy (later, aged around 16-17) didn't work because I was trying too hard. Being neither is harder because there are no guidelines and my old prejudices are hard to drop, but it is better because it's more natural, it's just me. (That last bit doesn't have much to do with my childhood but inspiration struck and I rolled with it.) Really, I'm not far out of childhood, I'm only 19, so... yeah. Life story, short(ish) version.
I can't really remember much about my childhood that could give any clue as to how I felt about being a boy. I was born with a genetic defect and hypogonadism, so my body didn't have testosterone until I was 14 - whether that made a difference or not I don't know.
My friends as a child were mostly boys, and I did do some "boyish" activities such as playing football with them.
As a child, I was very much the bookish kid who preferred to read. I loved to draw maps and design flags, and I was always going to the local public library and getting a pile of books to read. I suppose that if I had to give my childhood self a gender identity, it would be masculine but not extreme masculine, more like 35% to the male side than 100% macho masculine. I was smaller, shorter and weaker than most of the other boys in my class, and only really caught up with them in my late teens.
Around the age of eight, I recall very dimly looking in the mirror and pretending to be a girl, and that my name was Jessica (which isn't a name I would personally consider for myself nowadays, and I don't know where it came from back then. It could be that my memories are just mixed up). I also remember being anxious that my mother had to see me as her "baby boy", although when you have three younger brothers I think a child can be excused for worrying that he might not get as much attention as the other boys.
Around the age of 15 I did have some days where I would use women's clothing during masturbation, something which is now replaced by sexual fantasies of myself as a woman. It was also in my teens that I had the bizarre ideas that people saw me as some fictional character or real life well-known person, and this person was often a woman - a fact that at the time I felt very uncomfortable with. That has died away almost completely, but it does come up now and again, although I'm happy for the female character to be there in that way. This has spilt through into my daydreams, where I fantasise about being a character I created - I used to daydream in bed about myself, but now it's almost always my character - and he's much more feminine than I am, and I often fantasise about him having a sex change or becoming pregnant (both as a male or as a woman).
Overall, I don't think my childhood was very gendered, I think as a child I was more preoccupied with reading and daydreaming than worrying about my gender identity.
Quote from: childofwinter on September 08, 2010, 10:08:49 AM
I think as a child I was more preoccupied with reading and daydreaming than worrying about my gender identity.
I was more preoccupied with that then eating, drinking or breathing.
I think I learned something just now,
I suppose that the dysphoria was always there, from as young as I can remember, but I then did not know how to deal with it, so I was in a constant state of anxiety, that I had to keep myself occupied in something.
I remember thinking about my dysphoria all the time when I was in bed or otherwise doing nothing.
Personally, I only remember the dysphoria starting once I hit puberty, but I do remember thinking it was odd that other kids seemed to only make friends of their own sex.
Oh, and one of the earliest videos of me includes me in a frilly dress, in one of the towers of those plastic castles, shooting some kind of water gun that unloaded like a machine gun.
from a young age I was told by my grandmother that boys don't cry I have one messed up memory of saying "well I don't want to be a boy" in response to the Boys don't cry comment from my grandmother. before my schooling started I was friends with a girl who lived down the road we went to school together and we would play together until she learnt that I had "boy germs" we had a normal uniform and a sports uniform the girls sports uniform was red dress with blue shorts underneath and the boys was red shirt blue shorts so one day in grade 1 we swapped roles she tucked her dress in and I pulled my shirt out, we got in trouble but I don't remember the punishment.
when she stoped being my friend because other girls wanted to be her friend so I was pushed aside over the years I never had many friends and they all stopped being friends with me so they could be friends with cooler people I was involved in a few youth groups growing up but I never felt like part of any of the groups I stuck with some groups for a long time but always felt like I didn't totally fit It was normal for the group to break up to smaller groups some guys playing gutars & some playing sport & girls doing a few things I'd either be with the girls who were chatting but not saying much or I'd sit by myself watching everyone else have fun
I was not consciously aware of any gender issues per se as a child. I only became clear on that as an older adult.
But, looking back and reading childhood stories of others, I realized things were not so simple.
Much of my adult career as a therapist has been focused on trying to help men change and be more aware and expressive of their emotions. More compassionate and empathic. Believing that none of these changes are incompatible with healthy masculinity. My work was and is focused on ending violence and abuse, which I identified as coming in part from unhealthy masculinity. I still believe that, but I came to realize that there was something about being male - even a "healthy" male - that I did not feel fit for me. I tried, but could not change the world to fit me, and I did not fit the world. Still do not.
All my life I have felt like I did not fit. I thought it was because I moved a lot. No durable friendships, always the "new kid" / "outsider." I was also the "smart" kid, and usually less athletic, although not completely. Also my father was and is a Pentecostal minister. I was set apart some from that. Several people mentioned feeling isolated in this topic. I can relate some to that.
Then, in retrospect, there are the oddities. I had a doll, named Alexander. (I still have him. He's very dirty). I had several sisters. I never dressed in their clothes, but I did brush their hair, and I played house with them while, as the oldest, I was taking care of them. As the oldest (of ten) I cleaned, and cooked, and diapered, and comforted, and helped, and played with - and so on. I always had a girl-friend - never thought girls had "couties" or anything else bad. Nothing I did is never done by males, but - My mother used to joke she was going to collect a "dowry" when I got married. So my childhood experiences included both male and female (stereotyped or identified) activities.
I did not question my sex or gender, but I always felt like a spy under cover - faking something. Waiting for clarity. Waiting to fit.
On a bad day I feel like my GID is a fraud. I do not have the classic history. No bouts with suicide, just quiet, confused despair.
I appreciate that people on Susan's honor the diversity of our communities experience, so I have never felt criticized or minimized here. And I have seen that there is a variety of experiences - there are others a little like me.
On other days it just makes sense - my brain is not the same gender as my body, and that has been both a "boon" and a "bane".
So looking back - I think I was androgynous, but did not know it.