Susan's Place Transgender Resources

all:
This pol
thank you for
Sheila18

For myself I'm afraid none of those headings listed applies.

uses makeup and high heels - (anyone can do that)
thinks-feels-acts likea woman - (how do women think, feel and act?)
has sex with men/likes men - (you don't need to be a woman to like men or have sex with a man)
Has vagina and breasts - (working on that - but will that make someone a woman)
bearsBears children and grand-child - (bearing children doesn't make you a woman either)

And as far as ever being one - well of course, I am one.

Steph

Have to agree with Steph.  These are all stereotypical concepts: all can be true and none of the above can apply to many women.  It isn't possible to define women to any one subset of traits, feelings, beliefs, or behaviors.  Exceptions exists for virtually any description of women (or females).  Female might be a better term because while woman refers to adult females, it also has a deeper more subjective meaning ("one is not born a woman" and all that).  I am a woman but I can't give you an exact explanation of how I know this.  It's not even the absence of maleness or male traits because while I am certain I'm not a not man (male), I have some traits that might be considered male, just like most (if not all) women do.  It's a big blurry line but for some reason--and I think it goes deeper than socialization--almost all of us put ourselves on one side or the other and not in the middle.

Dawn

The conclusion I came to is that a woman is anyone who identifies and defines herself as a woman.

Melissa

Ah...just look Chynna up in the dictionary

Chynna (ADJ, NOUN, PROVERB) : A woman


Chynna

Quote from: Melissa on July 07, 2006, 08:32:09 AM
The conclusion I came to is that a woman is anyone who identifies and defines herself as a woman.

I'm going to take the opposite stance and suggest that only other people can truly define that for us.

I could say I'm a "nice person" all I want, but if all I do is abuse people and hurt them intentionally, lol, then identifying as one isn't worth much.

It's almost as if being a "woman" is more of an earned *reputation* in a sense, than a self-made proclamation. In fact, I'd suggest that being a "woman" is more of a conclusion based on your interaction with others, how they treat you, the context they place you in. It's something to be discovered, not declared.

What if a woman is living alone on a deserted island?  Is she not really a woman then?

Melissa

Interesting points.

To be sure.

Quote from: Kate on July 07, 2006, 10:08:51 AM
I'm going to take the opposite stance and suggest that only other people can truly define that for us.

I could say I'm a "nice person" all I want, but if all I do is abuse people and hurt them intentionally, lol, then identifying as one isn't worth much.

It's almost as if being a "woman" is more of an earned *reputation* in a sense, than a self-made proclamation. In fact, I'd suggest that being a "woman" is more of a conclusion based on your interaction with others, how they treat you, the context they place you in. It's something to be discovered, not declared.

Quote from: Melissa on July 07, 2006, 10:15:08 AM
What if a woman is living alone on a deserted island?  Is she not really a woman then?

Melissa

Steph

Quote from: Melissa on July 07, 2006, 10:15:08 AM
What if a woman is living alone on a deserted island?  Is she not really a woman then?

Melissa

Yeah, what about the lost woman of San Nicolas?

Nero

Quote from: Melissa on July 07, 2006, 10:15:08 AM
What if a woman is living alone on a deserted island?  Is she not really a woman then?

Kindofa moot point, as there's no one to contrast herself against. She's a unit of ONE, so she's just herself.

Though I suppose she'd remember how people treated her before she was stranded, so she could use that to draw conclusions. She'd already "know" she's a woman from past experience.

Well, for me, society said I was male, but I identified and defined myself as female anyways, which kind of defies your definition.

Melissa

I voted for Thinks Feels and Acts like a woman because I think it is the closest fit.  The other options aren't factors in identifying a woman.  I can see Steph's point...How does a woman think, feel and act?  And, you could also use the argument "gee...I feel like a horse today", but that is not going to make you a horse.  But I think as far as gender goes (and I agree with DawnL that female is probably a more fitting term), that your feelings and thoughts are what make you male for female.  Actons, not so much so.  I am female, but some mornings I get up and put on a pair of unisex shorts, a t-shirt and do absolutely nothing to feminize my appearance but that doesn't make me any closer to a male because I still identify (think and feel) like a female.  Gender Identity Disorder is identifying with the opposite gender than your birth assigned gender.  Thinking, actually knowing you are a female (or male in the opposite direction), feeling that you are female, then opening your eyes and looking in the mirror and seeing body parts that don't match the image in your head.  That just happens to be the plumming you were given, it doesn't make you any less a female.

Also, I don't see Melissa and Kate's positions as necessarily opposite.  Now I am referring to "woman" as a societal role, not gender (male/female).  I believe if you do identify as a woman as Melissa said, then you will do things (this is where the 'actions' come in) that will cause society to give you the reputation that Kate refers to.

I know I am a GG, so I hope I didn't overstep my bounds, but I just thought this thread looked interesting.

:icon_chick: :icon_chick:
Pam

melisa:
  aahhh :D :D :D  you made my day, yep sometimes I feel like I've on a deserted Island.


sheila

Quote from: Melissa on July 07, 2006, 10:43:54 AM
Well, for me, society said I was male, but I identified and defined myself as female anyways, which kind of defies your definition.

Male, yes, but:

Quote from: Melissa
I experience the same thing about women whom I haven't told treating me as female anyways.

See? Society already knew you were a woman, if not literally female.

My answer, too, is 'Nunna T. Above'

I have been wrestling with the question for quite a long time, including when I was in denial.

I think the survey responses are more appropriate to the question, "What does a typical woman HAVE?", as they're more about having-ness than being-ness.  In my years I've noted the existence of many un-lady-like or un-feminine women who were nevertheless female.  Noting this has eased my transition, as I don't feel the NEED to ape stereotypical 'woman' behavior (wanting to ape it for the sheer pleasure is another matter!  If it's fun, do it!)

Maybe this question should be re-thought?

Karen

karen:
thanks for your reply and insight about  ""What

leseeeeeeeeeeee.....a woman ............????????????...............?????????......is???????????......... simply... ME!!!


That was easy... :D


tinkerbell :icon_chick:

closing the poll   and   Results

well it seems that by comparing the traffic with the participation is clear that is enough of this.


With love and admiration, Sheila

Yes for the most part Sheila we are all thinking adults with minds of our own, dealing with our own adversities in our own way, thinking for ourselves, not caring what others think, where we fit in.  We have come to realize that it is "me" that counts and "me" that is important.

Polls can be fun.

Steph

cindianna: 
   :DI love reading your posts, I often cry laughing( like now) laughing at the stuff you write...Where have you've been all my life girl?
  Am printing this motherf----g ->-bleeped-<- and is going on the fridge, is funneeee!
thanks baby, you made my day
love, wetfaced belly aching gigled out sheila :D :D :D :D

Okaaaaaayyyyy!!!!  are you still laughing Sheila?

To society, a woman is this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/woman


Do you girls agree?


tinkerbell :icon_chick:

tinkerbel:
you tempt me to be bad and say things that will get me in trouble,  "devil be gone" >:D... aahhh  am still laughing , you girls want to kill me like those weasels in Roger Rabbit?

sheila18

Sheila:

:eusa_clap:


tinkerbell :icon_chick:


P.S.  You and Chynna make my day every day....thank you girls for making me laugh.... lately, it's been kind of hectic at work, at home, everywhere basically.   A little bit stressed out....Xanax time again, I think.   

Tinkerbel:
I just realized that you are in California time,
Tinker, you are so sweet! you are welcome of course... I thought you are very funny because you came up with the link to that web page. I clicked the link and bam! there is this pair of papayas hanging from my screen...what the he--! that tinkerbell booby traped me  :D :D..ahh i love it


sheila

Cindianne:
a fish called Wanda....