From the Texas GOP's 2006 party platform comes this gem.
Quote
5. We believe that traditional marriage is a legal and moral
commitment between a natural man and a natural woman.
We recognize that the family is the foundational unit of a
healthy society and consists of those related by blood,
marriage, or adoption. The family is responsible for its own
welfare, education, moral training, conduct, and property.
No where has marriage ever been defined with the words natural, it's a very recent, very Republican addition.
What constitutes a natural man or woman. How does a intersexed individual, who is not strictly male or female as we generally understand them, get classified. I think it's clear that this modification to the definition of marriage is aimed at transsexuals.
Republicans have won most of the battles over gay marriage through the hatred and bigotry of the average under educated, religiously brainwashed, uninformed citizen. With that base of support assured, the Republican Party appears to believe that it is now ok to start redefining marriage in their favor.
Another interesting tidbit from the Texas Republicans 2006 Party Platform:
QuoteThe family is responsible for its own welfare, education, moral training, conduct, and property.
Polispeak translation: If you or your family need any kind of help don't come looking at your government for help, and you can definitely forget about asking the Republican Party for any either.
The Republicans are not interested in helping you even though they would be required to do so if they were real Christians. Instead they really are this fake ass, lets pretend to be "Christians" to get the rubes vote, for our own personal political power, hypocrite kind.
When are the few remaining die hard Republican supporters gonna take their heads out of their asses and leave a party which has clearly degraded from the party of Abraham Lincoln, the party of fiscal responsibility, the party of smaller government, the party which protects your civil liberties, the party which gives a hand up not a hand out, into the party of let them eat cake, while we ignore the working man, and give ourselves huge automatic yearly pay raises, eat away at your constitutional rights, vote in perks for the rich, and screw everyone else over as hard as we can. When is enough going to be enough!
A black (not the African American kind either) and white world view can not, and does not work in a world that is in reality colored in infinite shades of gray.
It amazes me how people like this get elected, are they that good at brainwashing folks.
Steph
-_- it's times like these I wish the governments would fall into a total and irreversable reform that takes an open mind and allows people to live the way they wish to and not try to control society like this. If Texas adopts this law I will go to England or someother country and get married.. I think that politicians are looking only to improve their own income and not really care for the people they represent. I guarantee this will have the activist groups raising all hell in opposition. It is utterly stupid and impossable to impose such regulations on the "FREE PEOPLE!"
Was the United States now founded on the grounds of Freedom? Does that not intell allowing a person to live the life they WANT? When the government starts to regulate how the people are to live, what's to stop them from passing other more restrictive laws? The government needs to back off the marrage laws as they are are invading ion the people's right to freedom of choice. If I were able to, I'd write an essay to the supreme courts objecting to and clearly pointing out these new legislations are infringing upon the basic foundations that founded and built this nation from the late 1700s.
This makes me think of my time in highschool when they wrote and inforced new unfair policy..... ended up becomeing frineds with the Coach that ran detention...... The government needs to worry more about things like takeing care of the people there supposed to be serving rather than serve themselves and there own selfish needs.......
Why the big deal over marrage.... what about social security.... what about healthcare reform.... what about the homeless, the vetrens, the crime, violence, drugs, guns, this pointless war that needs to end allready .... the fact that the working class is killing themselves trying to keep this country running while the fat cat is out playing....... ugggggggg..... this makes me soooooooo angry..... I'll post again once Ive calmed down some....
They're good at "bread and circuses," Stephanie, just like the Roman dicators were and the voters don't seem to be getting it.
The plank is close enough to how many people feel but with that little half-step further. Once that half step is accepted, another will take its place.
helen
Quote from: HelenW on July 13, 2006, 09:54:55 PM
They're good at "bread and circuses," Stephanie, just like the Roman dicators were and the voters don't seem to be getting it.
The plank is close enough to how many people feel but with that little half-step further. Once that half step is accepted, another will take its place.
helen
Very true, smoke and mirrors.
Steph
Quote from: HelenW on July 13, 2006, 09:54:55 PM
They're good at "bread and circuses," Stephanie, just like the Roman dicators were and the voters don't seem to be getting it.
The plank is close enough to how many people feel but with that little half-step further. Once that half step is accepted, another will take its place.
helen
I completely agree. The Republicans of today are pandering to the narrow-minded, racist, sexist bigots. Lincoln would be considered a liberal extreamist.
And the Bread & Circuses statement is also right on the mark.
How do I go and take back my Canadian citizenship...?
Chaunte
We believe that traditional marriage is...
Thing of it is, who cares what they believe? If someone doesnt believe in same-sex marriage (or TSism), then don't marry a gay man or transsexual. But don't try to legislate person religious beliefs into laws to be imposed upon everyone else.
Everyone gets sucked into making this a moral argument, when it should remain a strictly legal issue. Legally, there's no reason why gays and transsexuals can't marry whom they please. If someone argues that such relationships are less than ideal for raising children, then we might as well ban mixed-race marriages, poor couples, and hey, let's just cut to the chase and ban all non-evangelical christians from marrying and raising children in heathen households.
Quote from: Kate on July 14, 2006, 09:06:08 AM
If someone doesnt believe in same-sex marriage (or TSism), then don't marry a gay man or transsexual.
Excuse me? A man marrying an MTF (post-op) is not in a same sex marriage. However, they also don't fall into the "natural" definition either. This is their real target.
Melissa
Quote from: Melissa on July 14, 2006, 10:46:16 AM
Excuse me? A man marrying an MTF (post-op) is not in a same sex marriage. However, they also don't fall into the "natural" definition either. This is their real target.
Sorry, just sloppy typing on my part. I didn't mean to imply that MTF's are "men," but rather that both gays AND TSs seriously irk the evangelists.
Susan,
I have been using the dictionary quite a bit in the last few years. Read the definitions for male (man) or female (woman) and you find nothing conclusive.
I'm also a registered Republican and I believe in same sex marriage or I should say that there should be no discrimination on the basis of being human. You like who you like and you are who you are. Why should that bother anyone. I know there are other Republicans on the list and I know of others in the GLBT organizations. We need to ban together and change the Republican party around. I don't vote strictly Rep. I will vote the way I want to. Lately it has been the Liberterian party.
Sheila
2 years ago I went the rounds at Delphi forums and I upset many a decent folk because I predicted Republican win. It was easy They had no veritable opposition. I rememmber an interview with Gore Vidal, uncle of Al, Gore back in the 70's (in either Penthouse or Playboy), where he was asked if he was a Liberal or a true conservative Democrat or something like that his response went something like this: "I am neither, I believe there is no difference in between both parties, we have in reality one party system. There is no discernible political ideological difference between them, they have similar jobs, they come from similar families live in same neighborhoods and their children go the same schools intermarry each other"
Since then I have been watching both parties and his (Vidal's) observation was right on. Only at the city level I find differences. Look imagine Condolezza Rice and Colin Powell so close in to the powers that be? such a far cry from the Camelot decribed in "the Best an the Brightest" by David Halberstram. Every body bought the pseudo "Conservative" label from Bush father who was pro abortion when running against R. Reagan and call Reagan's ideas Voodoo Economics, they are anything but Conservatives. They have some Cult Ideologies that resesmble more Pose-Committatus than anything else. The sad part is they have no opposition except for Baraka Obama. And he is 8 years away from maturity (financial backing from Industry)
I agree with Sussan that definition is clearly aimed at Transexuals, A very effective manuver of dividing and conquering the Gay Movement from its supporter s and sympathyzers. I believe the move is aimed at flushing out those who will challange the definition to tar and feather them. Sounds like Carl Rove strategic way of thinking to me.
Hope my comments do not upset any of the decent members of this forum
Love and Light, Sheila18
Quote from: cindianna_jones on July 14, 2006, 05:20:58 AM
...
It's a religious thing that they are pressing. Let the churches handle it. I don't know why we let the government manage our personal lives like this.
...
Cindi
If we let that happen what will those who don't believe in a god do. I believe that those who are religious and belong to an organized church or religion should be able to determine who and how two people can be married in their club. But there is no way that their beliefs should be allowed to define how the rest of the world should act or live, just as the government should not be defining who can be married.
Steph
I don't believe there should be any special rights for married people. I believe in equality and that means everyone should have the same rights, whether married or not.
Sheila
Hi Gang:
Yeah...they are perfect, hardworking, honest, loving.....yeah sure...here is a good example of what republicans are to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8gIBFtWk9I&search=Pink%20mr%20president
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
I hate it when I can't play these links - It sucks to be on dial-up, ya ya I know - poor me :)
Steph
Excellent video!
Hey don't be cursing at the repubs they are people also.
MEAN, EVIL, SELFISH GREEDY PEOPLE!
Thank you Leigh, I needed that.
Sheila
cindianna:
I love it when you are on your soap box, you do a heck of a good job there.
" I'm showing my steel toed boot to the true idiots of our society." baby this is bumper sticker material. ahhh :D :D I love it.
"I find myself wondering how anyone can be a Republican and face all the discrimination issues that we now enjoy." I feel the same about Democrats. to me they are all the same they live in the same nighborhoods, went to the same schools their kids do the same and end up marrying each other ...imagine Maria Schriver marrying Anold Schwarzwhatever :icon_no: ...beyond belief.
Liberals pretend the Reagan years -in contrast to the Bush years- were a golden idyll of collaboration between congressional Democrats and a not-so conservative president. When Reagan died in 2004, John Kerry recalled having admired his political skils and liked him personally. ??? :eusa_liar: . They are delusional and inept. they forgot the Bork Nomination procedings and the Iran-Contra hearings at al :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall:
Cindianna I read this post of yours a few days ago and have let this simmer in my head: "The problem for us is that we are not much of a community. We don't tend to come out much in public and for the most part, we don't want to be seen with each other"
I instinctively agreed with it. I decided to take some time to think it over ... well my head and my instincts agree rotundly.
It seems to me that the next obvious task is to find the answer and solution to this facts
- be a better comunity
- be willing to be seen together
- be out more in public[/i]
Perhaps our Administrators can agree and help us with a new category of Forum, what do you think. The first post would be: "Improving our TS comunity" and have it so only us can read it. No reason why others know our strategies in advance ...spooky? ... yeah! :D
love, sheila18
# be a better comunity
# be willing to be seen together
# be out more in public
1 A better community of what? People who can't find common interests much less needs.
2 What does this accomplish?
3 Living 24/7/365 isn't enough? A cd who is afraid of discrimination can't or won't. Most of the ones "out" are those who are in or are finished with transition. Example: Go to any Pride Parade and you will see people who only come out for it and maybe a once a month social.
If any changes are made 95% of them with be made in partnership with the Queer organizations. GLAAD, NGLTF, HRC as examples.
Leigh
Quote from: Leigh on July 19, 2006, 10:30:05 AM
# be a better comunity
# be willing to be seen together
# be out more in public
1 A better community of what? People who can't find common interests much less needs.
2 What does this accomplish?
3 Living 24/7/365 isn't enough? A cd who is afraid of discrimination can't or won't. Most of the ones "out" are those who are in or are finished with transition. Example: Go to any Pride Parade and you will see people who only come out for it and maybe a once a month social.
If any changes are made 95% of them with be made in partnership with the Queer organizations. GLAAD, NGLTF, HRC as examples.
Leigh
I have to agree with Leigh on this.
* Which begs the question what is the Trans community. When you look at "Our comunity" CD, TV, TS, IS etc. the only thing we have in common is clothing.
* Why do we have to be willing to be seen together, I don't understand that, what is stopping anyone from doing that now. There are thousands of places everywhere where folks can meet if they so desire, but my problem is and this is only my problem, is that I don't consider this as a club, and I'm not comfortable socializing with other TS women who don't pass, and I'm sorry if this offends, but I don't want to be seen as TS, I just want to be seen as a woman.
* I live 24/7/365 and have been for the past year and I really think that I'm doing all I can for our community, being an active member in our local GLBT groups and taking an active part in their issues. For myself when I have finally had the surgery, and all gender markers have been corrected, I will no longer have to worry about myself as a trans woman but simply as a woman getting on with her life, looking out for women's rights. Don't get me wrong I support and will always stay an active member in the GLBT community as I am now, but as a woman my priorities may shift. I think that this is a fact of TS life.
Steph
Quote from: Steph on July 19, 2006, 11:23:55 AM
* I live 24/7/365 and have been for the past year and I really think that I'm doing all I can for our community, being an active member in our local GLBT groups and taking an active part in their issues. For myself when I have finally had the surgery, and all gender markers have been corrected, I will no longer have to worry about myself as a trans woman but simply as a woman getting on with her life, looking out for women's rights. Don't get me wrong I support and will always stay an active member in the GLBT community as I am now, but as a woman my priorities may shift. I think that this is a fact of TS life.
I have to agree with you Steph, especially on this last point. That's exactly the approach I have been and plan to take.
Melissa
simple:
ts getting together like the way this group will get together in Oregonfor one of many.
NO hidden agendas here. If you really mean what you wrote then prove it by opening this site to all GLBT people in general.
Is no rocket science that we tranies have different issues such as medical./
Here in the city where I live we have a transgender group that meets in the general GLBT house, meet for movie and pop, great but do not have the political power that gays and lesbians do.
And if you do not want to participate don't. Now you have your surgery and is " tbam wham thank you mam". that's cool. Now you are a woman and no need to be confused by a trannie. I am A trannie and always will
If you are dysphoric about this idea is ok with me am familiar with the subject. This is a FORUM after all. And am not offended by any of the responses.
The idea came from the realization that some members/guests here that we as TS are not quite welcomed in the GAy Lesbian circle, they enlist our support and go in drag while on a parade. But they do not understand our issues because many believe that we are going through a phase and one day we will wake up to reality and realize that we are gay.
I asked for your opinioon and I got it , loud and clear. Thank you
sheila18
Quote from: sheila18 on July 19, 2006, 12:30:14 PM
simple:
ts getting together like the way this group will get together in Oregonfor one of many.
and that is great, there is nothing wrong with that if that's what you like to do. Now if I were to organize one of those events here for TS where I live there would be me and Heather, another TS who lives near by and that's it. We are a community of two and neither one of us likes to be out together. We just don't hit it off. but that doesn't mean i don't support her.
QuoteNO hidden agendas here. If you really mean what you wrote then prove it by opening this site to all GLBT people in general.
This site is open to everyone. I would say that many of our members would consider that they themselves are also a part of the GLBT community. The opening paragraph to the site rules, which apply to everyone is as follows:
Every one is welcome at Susan's Place if you follow the basic rules: This site is an open support area and is not generally sexually oriented. This site is for the discussion of issues related to gender and may include Transsexualism, Transvestism, Crossdressing, or other related topics. This web site exists try to provide constructive input and support. QuoteIs no rocket science that we tranies have different issues such as medical./
Here in the city where I live we have a transgender group that meets in the general GLBT house, meet for movie and pop, great but do not have the political power that gays and lesbians do.
And if you do not want to participate don't. Now you have your surgery and is " tbam wham thank you mam". that's cool. Now you are a woman and no need to be confused by a trannie. I am A trannie and always will
If you are dysphoric about this idea is ok with me am familiar with the subject. This is a FORUM after all. And am not offended by any of the responses.
Not to be confused with being someone who doesn't participate... Recently in Ontario they de-list the previously funded GRS/SRS, thanks to the preceding conservative government, now we are right back where we started lobbying our members of parliament, I am actively doing that making sure that my voice and the concerns of others are being heard, and there is a good possibility that the procedures will be re-listed due to a human rights decision in our favour. Also, at the request of Queens University, I have given talks to Queens Students on TS issues, what we face, our fears, our hopes and dreams etc... I was asked by the a local psychiatrist to talk to a panel of medical students from the Kingston General Hospital who have just finished there medical training and were starting their specialty training in the field of psychiatry, this panel also had a member from the Canadian Forces Royal Military College in attendance. At the end of a very exhaustive discussion, "they" agreed that based on what I presented that GID should be removed from DSM-IV. I support the local GLBT movement by taking part in as many events and supporting fund raising where ever I can and we have a social gathering once per month.
I believe that I have done much participating, for one, simply by coming out at work and showing everyone from my employer to the school boards, to the schools that I can do my job as a TS woman and that the fears for their children that parents voiced their concerns over, threatening to take my job and livelihood, were unfounded.
QuoteThe idea came from the realization that some members/guests here that we as TS are not quite welcomed in the GAy Lesbian circle, they enlist our support and go in drag while on a parade. But they do not understand our issues because many believe that we are going through a phase and one day we will wake up to reality and realize that we are gay.
and like it or not that is the way that many GL folks see us, along with just as many straight folks.
QuoteI asked for your opinioon and I got it , loud and clear. Thank you
sheila18
Yes you asked for an opinion, you didn't ask for one that would agree with your thinking. I'm sorry if I offended you and I take it from the tone of your reply that I did. However I speak my mind, I am who I am.
Steph
Quote from: Steph on July 19, 2006, 01:25:45 PM
I'm sorry if I offended you and I take it from the tone of your reply that I did. However I speak my mind, I am who I am.
Steph
Steph no offense taken, just replied in the same tone my post was replied.
I do not believe in letting others fight my battles. Thank you for agreeing with me
Cindianna; girl when you are right you are right ;) :D
Sheila
Quote from: sheila18 on July 19, 2006, 01:56:21 PM
Cindianna; girl when you are right you are right ;) :D
Sheila
Sheila:
Cindi is always right, right Cindi?
I'm reading your minds right now and LMAO... ;)
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
yep ;)
Quote from: Steph on July 19, 2006, 01:25:45 PMI would say that many of our members would consider that they themselves are also a part of the GLBT community.
Good point. I would think that since a considerable fraction of at least TS folks are also gay/lesbian/bisexual, those of us who are can choose to be vocal as GLB folks, without having to mention the T part. :)
~ umop (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.umop.net%2Fetc%2Fbisexual.gif&hash=d047ab12f37c43e36cc489b770906c829bb55e68)
Quote from: sheila18 on July 19, 2006, 12:30:14 PM
simple:
ts getting together like the way this group will get together in Oregonfor one of many.
NO hidden agendas here. If you really mean what you wrote then prove it by opening this site to all GLBT people in general.
Is no rocket science that we tranies have different issues such as medical./
Here in the city where I live we have a transgender group that meets in the general GLBT house, meet for movie and pop, great but do not have the political power that gays and lesbians do.
And if you do not want to participate don't. Now you have your surgery and is " tbam wham thank you mam". that's cool. Now you are a woman and no need to be confused by a trannie. I am A trannie and always will
If you are dysphoric about this idea is ok with me am familiar with the subject. This is a FORUM after all. And am not offended by any of the responses.
The idea came from the realization that some members/guests here that we as TS are not quite welcomed in the GAy Lesbian circle, they enlist our support and go in drag while on a parade. But they do not understand our issues because many believe that we are going through a phase and one day we will wake up to reality and realize that we are gay.
I asked for your opinioon and I got it , loud and clear. Thank you
sheila18
You know...there's this japanese proverb which I love......never mind...you get the idea....LOL.......... ;D :D ;D :D ^-^ ^-^ ;D Sorry I coudn't resist. LMAO big time!!!
There I added two more letters...LMAOBT!!!! >:D
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
Quote from: sheila18 on July 19, 2006, 12:30:14 PMIf you really mean what you wrote then prove it by opening this site to all GLBT people in general.
the site is open to all GLBT people in general.
Quote from: The RulesEvery one is welcome at Susan's Place if you follow the basic rules: This site is an open support area and is not generally sexually oriented. This site is for the discussion of issues related to gender and may include Transsexualism, Transvestism, Crossdressing, or other related topics. This web site exists try to provide constructive input and support.
Quote from: Steph on July 19, 2006, 11:23:55 AM
I have to agree with Leigh on this.
* Which begs the question what is the Trans community. When you look at "Our comunity" CD, TV, TS, IS etc. the only thing we have in common is clothing.
Clothing?
Clothing?!?
Clothing!!!!!
Clothing is fabric we put on our bodies.
I believe what we ALL have in common is Human Rights.
This includes the right to determine our own gender identity and gender expression.
And that's a lot more important than fabric.
-Emerald :icon_mrgreen:
tinkerbel:
I figure that you would get a chucle out of it :D girllll
And Susan:
you truly have class.
fox news reported some time ago that Transgender rights law – and they define it as: "that is protecting the rights of people whose identity does not match the genitalia they were born with" –, has exploded in the field and in the political arena, becoming a new wave of civil rights in this country, according to experts. I odn't know who these experts are.
And so called experts concerned about what is called "affixing privileges to specialized groups" say that the transgendered population is taking privilege too far.
Sheila18
Quote from: Emerald on July 20, 2006, 05:51:40 AM
Clothing?
Clothing?!?
Clothing!!!!!
Clothing is fabric we put on our bodies.
I believe what we ALL have in common is Human Rights.
This includes the right to determine our own gender identity and gender expression.
And that's a lot more important than fabric.
-Emerald :icon_mrgreen:
Hello Em,
Yep you're so right that everyone on the planet should have equal human rights, and I would say that fortunately there are quite a few places in this world where we can enjoy those rights. I apologize if my comment on clothing being the only thing in common offended members but I stand by that, as we don't face the same discrimination issues. I believe that in the USA that most CD/TV enjoy all the human rights presently granted by your government across the USA, unless they were either gay or lesbian, of course.
Steph
Quote from: Steph on July 20, 2006, 12:58:06 PM
Hello Em,
I believe that in the USA that most CD/TV enjoy all the human rights presently granted by your government across the USA, unless they were either gay or lesbian, of course.
Steph
Perhaps that is true all over the World, here in Upstate NY that is not the case am sorry to say also here CD/TV are politically considered Gay/Lesbian, sorry guys you are mixed up with the rif raf :) :) ( this is the tread under discussion, correct? Politics, not Medicine or Psychiatry and their scietific definitions) if I remember we try to stay on topic. ;)
When Bush used the tag 'Natural' i believe he was targeting Transgendered people including TV and CD at least here in the US. he could have used Traditional Marriage as in the past.
Just a dialogue 2 unify our sisterly/ brotherly love ;), Sheila18
Quote from: sheila18 on July 19, 2006, 12:30:14 PM
we as TS are not quite welcomed in the GAy Lesbian circle, they enlist our support and go in drag while on a parade. But they do not understand our issues because many believe that we are going through a phase and one day we will wake up to reality and realize that we are gay.
sheila18
I just saw the The Simpsons episode where Homer sees some other families at Mr Burns' annual picnic that are well-behaved angels. His family appears as devils to him. "Room for one more inside, dad. Yeah Homeboy." "One of us. One of us." they chant, the riff from Todd Browning's
Freaks.
We are all freaks. Republicans cannot be disincluded on their own say so. They became Republicans with all that denotes now. That is as inexplicable to me as what I am to them.
Yeah we lack community on this planet, it's a 'known issue'. Republicans have been exploiting it for gain and for power for a while now.
Let us assume (quite correctly I think) that marriage is usually defined as a union between a man and a woman.
Yes, that definition would exclude same-sex marriages. We leave that for the Gay/Lesbian community to deal with for the time being because.....
The question we are really dealing with is: How does this common and traditional definition of marriage affect marriage-minded Transsexuals?
From the courts of New Zealand I found this gem of logic:
"There is no social advantage in the law not recognizing the validity of the marriage
of a transsexual in the sex of reassignment. It would merely confirm the factual
reality. If the law insists that genetic sex is the pre-determinant for entry into a
valid marriage, then a male-to-female transsexual can contract a valid marriage
with a woman and female-to-male transsexual can contract a valid marriage with
a man. To all outward appearances such would be same-sex marriages.
Where a person has undergone medical and surgical procedures that have
effectively given that person the physical conformation of a person of a specified
sex, there is no lawful impediment to a person marrying as a person of that sex."
Natural man and natural woman? If you are born TS you ARE natural, exactly as Mother Nature made you!
This isn't about political lobbying but a coming together of minds.
Pssst....I don't think the politicians are reading our posts.
Work smarter, not harder... Work together!
-Emerald :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: Emerald on July 20, 2006, 04:15:48 PM
Let us assume (quite correctly I think) that marriage is usually defined as a union between a man and a woman.
Yes, that definition would exclude same-sex marriages. We leave that for the Gay/Lesbian community to deal with for the time being because.....
The question we are really dealing with is: How does this common and traditional definition of marriage affect marriage-minded Transsexuals?
From the courts of New Zealand I found this gem of logic:
"There is no social advantage in the law not recognizing the validity of the marriage
of a transsexual in the sex of reassignment. It would merely confirm the factual
reality. If the law insists that genetic sex is the pre-determinant for entry into a
valid marriage, then a male-to-female transsexual can contract a valid marriage
with a woman and female-to-male transsexual can contract a valid marriage with
a man. To all outward appearances such would be same-sex marriages.
Where a person has undergone medical and surgical procedures that have
effectively given that person the physical conformation of a person of a specified
sex, there is no lawful impediment to a person marrying as a person of that sex."
Natural man and natural woman? If you are born TS you ARE natural, exactly as Mother Nature made you!
This isn't about political lobbying but a coming together of minds.
Pssst....I don't think the politicians are reading our posts.
Work smarter, not harder... Work together!
-Emerald :icon_mrgreen:
And I agree with that completely. I was TS at birth (diagnosed) and therefore if I were to marry a nat male then my marriage would be valid in the eye's of many law's around the world, but sadly apparently not in many of the sates in the US.
Steph
emerald:
excellent find 8)
you gotta love it, sheila18
emerald:
thanks :)
Sh18
Quote from: sheila18 on July 20, 2006, 07:49:57 PM
-- John Kerry praising R. Reagan's skills ??? :eusa_liar:
Kerry knows Reagan had tha skills, and that Kerry don't got 'em. He also said Ronnie was a nice guy. That's honest, both remarks, no?
Quote
Jan c you are right there is a lot of fear of being considered a freak and probably the underlying reason why Democrats have not challanged Republicans on this 'Natural Marriage' label. they are afraid to be freaks the freaks which should freak some people out ...am not a freak am a rif raf ;D
ahhh :D
you gotta love it, sheila18
Freaks vs Jocks all 'round, high school never ends.
jan c:
" Kerry knows Reagan had the skills, and that Kerry don't got 'em. He also said Ronnie was a nice guy. That's honest, both remarks, no? "
Not really, In 1988 Kerry condemned RR presidency as " Moral darkness of the Reagan_Bush Administration" , Now Kerry is attacking Bush politely with a convoluted logic. D
love, no matter what, Sheila18
Quote from: sheila18 on July 24, 2006, 06:35:10 AM
jan c:
" Kerry knows Reagan had the skills, and that Kerry don't got 'em. He also said Ronnie was a nice guy. That's honest, both remarks, no? "
Not really, In 1988 Kerry condemned RR presidency as " Moral darkness of the Reagan_Bush Administration" , Now Kerry is attacking Bush politely with a convoluted logic. ...
All moot points. Kerry gave RR his propers. An EXCELLENT politician and a personable sort.
In politics 'moral darkness' and 'nice guy' are not mutually incompatible. Lotta things drive a human being to have to become a politician.
Did not say Kerry is not somewhat disingenuous. "Honestly" gave Ronnie Raygun his props. Kerry gotta know what a crappy pol he is my comparison. The ??? you posted was: Kerry praises RR's skills? Of course he did, he has too, he's not actually stupid.
I did not make it up the hill that day to vote for Kerry. Would have if in OH.
Who is going to bat for the Trans gendered or even the GLBT rights? I believe that the Democrats are quietly abandoning the issue except in large metropolitan areas, yet Arnold Scwarzenneger (Republican) passed same sex marriage in Cal.
I think this horse has been beaten plenty :D :D
love, no matter what, sheila18
one comment and I go back to my corner, over there in a place where rhythm is not illegal
my political heroes are more on the lines of Che Guevara baby. Or the original Jesus Christ as I understand him.
Kerry is a schmuck, a peon, a poser. He used to be somewhat heroic I understand...