When I was little, I refused to wear skirts unless my mom forced me (this was mostly due to being paranoid about my little boy friends making fun of me or looking at my undies, but that's beside the point). In middle school once my mom allowed me to shave my legs (something I wanted to do because I was teased about it), I got into wearing short skirts, fishnets, and flashy stuff. Then in high school I met a guy, and over the course of our three-year relationship, he basically forced me out of skirts and/or anything "revealing" (any feminine shirt or any skirt shorter than knee-length)--this left me with the option of wearing boy clothes, pretty much, so I did: shorts and jeans, band shirts/t-shirts. Then after leaving him (it was an emotionally abusive relationship), I bought some nice skirts/dresses and wore them for a while, but I was never quite comfy in them, and I think it was more a rebellion against three years of tyranny than a real desire to be seen as a femmy person.
So, I'm just wondering, am I complete freak, or have any of you other boys had phases of dressing femininely for any reason? (i.e., pleasing others, rebelling, denying being trans, etc.)
Heck, yeah. I pitched a fit at wearing dresses my whole life. I felt exposed. I balked a LOT but growing up in the 60s ladies wore skirts and my parents enforced that. Thank G*D for the 70s LOL. In HS I dressed in Levis and plaid shirts and docksiders and that continued into college. But after college after getting married I tried more floral shirts and stuff. I can't say I ever truly dressed feminine but I wasn't wearing men's clothing and I did wear pink. Primarily I was in denial. I'd go through phases where I tried to dress up, you know, the what not to wear thing, where I felt like a slob. But those fancy clothes made my skin crawl, literally, the shoes were ridiculous and uncomfortable, and I wouldn't last more than a day or two and I'd be back in my frumpy jeans and tee shirts.
Occasionally over the years I'd have something feminine I'd wear a few times but it was rare. I hated dressing up and would always bring a change of clothes. As soon as the formal event was over, I'd change and be comfy. Got a lot of flak over that.
I know what you mean--if I went out in a skirt/dress, first thing I did when I got home was strip and put on boxers, lol. I don't so much mind pink, but I won't wear it until after I transition. I'm not very manly in face/body, so I try to exude masculinity through my clothing and behavior.
Getting me into a dress was impossible lol I've always worn pants to weddings and nice occasions.
However, every Halloween for the past 3 years my boyfriend and I are Collins and Angel from Rent, so I bust out my tiny skirt and 6 inch heels for that :)
I don't even think I actively opposed girls' clothes until 2nd/3rd grade. Before then I don't think it really mattered to me. But after that I would only get my clothes from the boys' section. And in high school, I did end up going to a formal dance, twice (even though I'm not the type of person at all who'd go to one of those, I'm not sure what happened, haha) ... and wore a dress. I didn't feel comfortable in it at all, even though it was a few years before I realized I was trans. I didn't feel like I could wear it right (and I couldn't ... it's a weird feeling, but I just couldn't wear it right, and I thin it's obvious by looking at the pictures that unfortunately exist of that time) and it was awkward. One time while trying on some more feminine clothes I was trying to figure out why it felt weird and I thought something like "I feel like I'm a girl who's actually a guy trying to crossdress and look like a girl," and I guess I should have known then... haha. The only feminine "phase" that I had was before 2nd or 3rd grade, and actually the year right before I came out as trans was probably my most feminine in recent history (I was really trying to make the girl thing work, but then came to the realization that it wasn't ever going to work and it didn't have to work thank god), but other than that I haven't really had any phases even though I did wear feminine things once in a while.
Hell yeah. My reasons were
a) the girls hated me and I thought if I did my hair and wore a little makeup, maybe they would be friends or at least stop tormenting me
b) I was into boys (honestly, I believe everybody male or female who likes the male species tries to make themselves attractive as possible)
Now skirts or dresses, almost never. Except one phase at 14 where everybody was harassing me to be more feminine or I'd die a virgin. So I tried a few miniskirts. ::)
chah dude. I was the girliest girly girl as far as I can tell in my pictures and from what my mom says when I was like age 6 and under. then I just tossed off all my girly clothes and did the tomboy thing for years.
dude, my favorite movie at age 3 was Little Mermaid (but by age 8 it was Aladdin haha)
then in high school I got teased a lot so with each passing year my clothes got progressively girlier. and then i found out girls were supposed to shave and stuff (i didnt think it mattered for me because I have little to no hair) and got it in my head that I'm supposed to shave too but didn't understand why.
The last couple of years has seen me in my girliest clothes ever because I was still trying to fit in in college but I don't give a crap anymore :)
Like most have said, I hated --hated-- being put in a dress when I was younger. The only time it really came up was at Christmas, so I eventually struck a deal with my parents: I would put on the dang dress without too much resistance if I could take it off as soon as my grandmother (who always bought the thing, along with matching ones for my two younger cousins as well) took a picture. I always *really* acted enthused to have my picture taken ASAP, so I could go ahead and put some pants and a T-shirt on even faster. My cousins preferred to run around in the dresses and, uh, they seemed to enjoy it *shrug* The dress thing ended when I was age 9 or 10 though, at my insistence because I was 'getting older' and could pick out some decent-looking clothes that I actually liked (read: weren't girly).
I didn't ever pick up wearing girly clothes in middle/high school to fit in. What I did do was try to emulate how girls talked (the inflection thing) because I noticed that when I did, people treated me nicer for some odd reason. So I just figured my usual monotone-ish boy way of talking was, I dunno, considered rude or something so I changed it. Now I'm working on un-changing it. :P
My sophomore year of college I dressed in actual girl shirts (typically grey or black and preferably printed with skulls, motorcycles, or guitars) because I couldn't find any T-shirts in the guys section that were tight enough to show off my 'muscles.' Yes, I was all proud that I had started lifting weights and saw some results in my back/arms. And I wanted to show off or something, lol (silly, I know). Then I realized that the tight shirts weren't really helping my case (ie, looking more male), so... back to baggy T's...
Actually, some of the stuff was pretty girly-looking in that it showed off this blasted hourglass thing I've got going on. Going along with what you said about 'denying trans-ness': I'd look in the mirror, say to myself 'for gods' sake, you've got a decent body and people of both genders want to date you. Wear some tighter girls' clothes to show it off some, like people keep telling you.' So I did... and I received mucho compliments... and I just felt, I dunno, kinda dirty with each compliment and ended the day feeling absolutely, horrifically uncomfortable with myself. It didn't take to long to figure out that there was no point pleasing others if it made me feel like hell by the end of the day.
Wow, I feel so relieved I'm not the only one who's gone through this. I appreciate all the replies.
Eryk: About feeling "dirty" about compliments, I know exactly what you mean. I was out with my mom one evening and she convinced me to wear this tight, low-cut shirt. She kept saying, "take off your scarf, you look good, you're pretty, beautiful," blah blah blah. It was, like you said, dirty and frankly quite embarrassing.
I went through a weird phase when I started college. One day I would do a sort of trashy girl thing (I had hardly any girl clothes, so there wasn't much variation), and the next I would do a sort of new wave boy thing, complete with skinny tie and jacket.
I found that guys liked my breasts, and I wanted guys, so...
Anyway, the girly phase didn't last. Most of it was a rebellion against my ultra-conservative mother; I discovered male interest as a fringe benefit. And anyway, there's only so much you can do with a few items of clothing. (There's a joke in there. I used to wear tight black riding pants, tall black riding boots, and a light blue fringy top that was practically see-through.)
I never again wore girls' clothing except for two or three occasions--one was a costume party, and one was an anniversary party. For a number of years after I dropped out of college--maybe five or six years--I was keenly aware of the effect that my braless chest had on the males of the species. I had horrific skin allergies by that time--couldn't wear anything synthetic or scratchy--so I wore comfortable shirts (polos, buttondowns, and lots of tees) and just jiggled around underneath. I really didn't have any choice. But I actually liked it for awhile. I had, you know, firm breasts. Guys liked the way they looked.
For a few years, I managed to convince myself that my fascination with masculinity was limited to my desire in sexual partners and had nothing to do with my self-perception. I persuaded myself that my boy-on-boy fantasy life was just a kink. I told myself that some of my other weird preoccupations were just...secret weirdnesses, and I kept them buried.
Until I found that FTM book and realized that even if I was a freak, at least I wasn't the only one.
i like girl clothes just not in a female body if u get that lol
i like feminine clothing i guess but im strange lol
Quote from: emoboi on August 07, 2008, 04:28:25 PM
i like girl clothes just not in a female body if u get that lol
i like feminine clothing i guess but im strange lol
I told my therapist the other day that if I had a male body I'd wear pink and tight shirts and stuff. I'm not afraid of being effeminate. It's just that feminine clothes on me now wouldn't be effeminate, they'd be FEMININE, which makes all the difference. Post-transition, I'm certain my style will be quite different than it is now.
Emoboi and Yochanan, same here. I actually enjoy the "boy-in-femme-clothing" thing. Now that I've started to pass more, I don't mind wearing girl jeans and eyeliner. Can't wait 'til I can wear pink. Actually, I wear pink eyeshadow sometimes, but only with really "scene" type clothes, lots of black. No pink shirts 'til I've started T, and been on it a bit.
I look forward to the days when I can wear eyeliner again. I'm not really into any other type of make-up, but eyeliner is one thing I miss terribly.
I was always one of them who pitched a fit wearing dresses and fought being in one. Father even punished me one time by making me wear a dress to church lol.
Most life wore more androgyne stuff, some masculine. In first year of high school I did try wearing makeup, grew hair out, and was dressing slightly more feminine (not a lot) didn't last long.
Then over last year before realized was transgender I was wearing a few plain black skirts and black sleveless shirt with a red and black celtic design shaw. Shocked my father. But really dispite having a bit more respect from some people (and less people trying run me over when crossing road) I still felt wrong. It didn't feel right and I wasn;t really happy in it.
oh i love eyeliner and makeup
sometimes i even wear it lol
Fun thread.
The only way I could avoid femmy clothes when I was a kid was to be passive-aggressive. You don't cross my mother. She is quite terrifying. And she did make me wear dresses and stuff to school sometimes when I was in elementary. One dress I actually liked. My father was a naval officer (now retired), and that dress had a real naval flair to it. And it fit a whole lot better than my father's old 'Nam fatigues and army boots.
I asserted myself more in junior high--NO DRESSES--and she yielded to the inevitable. But I wound up wearing girls' pants--Levi's were simply NOT appropriate wear for school, according to her--and a lot of shirts made for girls.
Funny: when I was in junior high, I didn't want to wear revealing clothes (as if I had anything to reveal at that age) or makeup like the "other" girls, the bio girls. My mother commended me for being mature.
When I was in high school and didn't want to wear girly clothes and makeup, she began to get WORRIED. She started buying me junk like powder and lipstick and some jewelry and stuff. Which I didn't wear.
When I started picking out revealing clothes (what I had of them) to wear in college, she actually seemed to relax. Whenever she caught me, she made me change clothes (I just took them with me and changed at school), but she stopped hassling me about makeup and frilly stuff. A few years later, I was gone, and it didn't matter anymore.
I do get off on femmy guys who wear femmy-looking clothing and have real style that way. But I can't stand that stuff on myself.
I'm not a big Richard Gere fan, but I used to watch movies like American Gigolo and pray that I would ever look that natural in an Armani suit. I used to watch NYPD Blue when it first started airing, and I loved it when Jimmy Smits joined the show. I dreamed of looking that good in an overcoat. Mmmmmm.
Of course, he's got a good six inches on me at least. In more ways than one.
It's a lot easier to look good in an overcoat than an Armani suit.
Dresses, :eusa_sick:. I literally had to be beaten into one. Now that I am older and more experienced, I realize that I should have taken Arch's passive aggressive approach back then rather than being a stubborn git. That way I would have just been stuck in a dress rather than stuck in a dress with a sore bottom. That stopped though by the time I was 10 luckily. After transistion, I would not mind wearing a pink shirt, but for now like most of the other guys have said I will stick to clothes that are unquestionably masculine.
Quote from: tekla on August 07, 2008, 08:21:20 PM
It's a lot easier to look good in an overcoat than an Armani suit.
LOL!!! I guess all you need are height and good shoulders. But even so...you have to really OWN it to look truly great. Smits had that.
Of course, tastes vary.
I remember when I was at school a number of years ago with a bunch of people I didn't really know well, and someone said something about Jimmy Smits. Maybe he had just left the show, I don't know. And without thinking, I immediately said, "I'd give anything to look as good as he does in an overcoat."
Silence.
It's those occasional weird little off-the-cuff remarks that change people's whole perception of you. To what, I have no idea. :P
I wore a dress in Kindergarden, I remember not liking it because I couldn't play on the playground. That was before the truth was revealed. At that point, I just felt a feeling lurking, but didn't know what it was. I also wore a dress to my step-mom's wedding with my dad. Didn't like that either. I hated being a flower girl. I had to stand around for an hour on stage in an ugly dress and fancy shoes, while my evil step-mom married my dad. Horrible day.
I was another one who fought tooth and nail not to wear a dress. I got forced into it occasionally and I remember once when I was a kid, my mum forcing me into a dress and we went out for dinner. The maitre d' said "and does the little boy want a children's menu?" This, despite the fact that I was wearing a dress. I was on cloud nine. My mother, needless to say, was less pleased.
I used to take jeans to school to change into. My mother never made me wear a dress to school, but she did make me wear girls' pants, which I also hated.
At 14 I did go through a slight femmy phase to try and fit in. Luckily the fashion then was jeans and hoodies, only a little tighter for girls, and makeup. It still felt like drag to me. I quit the makeup and went back to my usual gear fairly quickly. It helped that I liked girls, so there was no desire to try and attract boys.
As an adult, I would sometimes suck it up and wear a women's business suit, which was all I could really bear. Thank god those days are over.
Dennis
Re: femmy clothes = drag
I think I kind of felt that way in middle school (I was really into it--colorful tights/fishnets, short skirts that made my best friend tell his mom I looked like a slut, lots of jewelry), and definitely this most recent phase. Maybe that's why I liked it so much. I only ever wore stuff like that to make a statement: "I can do whatever I want!" basically. I always avoided low-cut shirts, though; that was way too far for me. I regret that I couldn't wear that stuff as myself (male). Would've been a lot more remarkable and more fun.
Lucky me my mom never made me wear anything I didn't want to. I wore over-alls and baggy jeans for most of my life. Freshman year I wore a skirt for halloween but it was only on for maybe 30 minutes. Other than that I wouldn't really say I ever dressed very femenine...plus I've always been really bad with the whole matching thing and styles and what-not.
I feel kind of lucky, my mom never forced dresses or pink on me. My mom told me a while ago, when I was about 4 I apparently got a mind of my own, and if she put a dress on me I'd take it off and run around naked. I guess I did it in public once or twice... ooops? But for funerals or weddings I HAD to wear a dress or a skirt. I could live with that, people wernt dropping like fly's or anything. The rest of the time my parents let me go to church in a nice shirt and dress pants like other boys did.
I wont lie though, when I was 7 or 8ish, I had these really pink and girly cowboy boots I LOVED to death. I think my girly side died when I grew out of those boots. I did try girl pants around 7th grade, but I just couldn't get used to the tight material and the really small pockets, lol.
Quote from: Scotty72 on August 09, 2008, 11:32:19 PM
I did try girl pants around 7th grade, but I just couldn't get used to the tight material and the really small pockets, lol.
O hideous
Girly
poches,
Useless for anything
But string,
Rubber bands,
Or
A single lonely
Tarnished
Quarter.
Quote from: Arch on August 09, 2008, 11:59:23 PM
Quote from: Scotty72 on August 09, 2008, 11:32:19 PM
I did try girl pants around 7th grade, but I just couldn't get used to the tight material and the really small pockets, lol.
O hideous
Girly poches,
Useless for anything
But string,
Rubber bands,
Or
A single lonely
Tarnished
Quarter.
Lol, Exactly. Never understood the point of even having pockets there if you couldn't stick anything in them.
Quote from: Scotty72 on August 10, 2008, 12:12:04 AM
Lol, Exactly. Never understood the point of even having pockets there if you couldn't stick anything in them.
I had to wear those pants...Levi's and pants with real pockets weren't acceptable to my mother. But I refused to carry a purse and managed to get by for quite some time with one of those three-ring zippered bags for pencils and things. (This was before backpacks became popular.) Eventually I resigned myself to carrying a purse, especially after I started bleeding. But you should have seen my face the first time I carried one...I was so embarrassed.
One day in ninth grade, I got revenge of sorts. We had one of those "slave days." I think you had to pay a small amount of money to the ASB or whatever--I'm not sure--but then you could take a "slave" of the opposite gender for the day.
The boys went first. The guy I liked made me carry all of his books (plus my own, of course) all day. The day after, I made him carry MY books--and my purse. On his shoulder, just like a regular girl would.
He was mortified and complained all day about it. "God, this is SO embarrassing," he kept moaning. And all I could think was, "Now you know how I feel." :eusa_boohoo:
A SLAVE day? Is that legal? I've never heard of that before. :( :-\
QuoteOne day in ninth grade, I got revenge of sorts. We had one of those "slave days." I think you had to pay a small amount of money to the ASB or whatever--I'm not sure--but then you could take a "slave" of the opposite gender for the day.
Wow! What kind of school did you go to? Sounds like an Okay place to me ;D
Quote from: The_Unforgiven on August 10, 2008, 02:38:55 AM
A SLAVE day? Is that legal? I've never heard of that before. :( :-\
I can't remember if that's what it was actually called (it might have had a more congenial name), and I can't remember the rules (long time ago). But, yes, you could pretty much ask the other person to do anything within reason, as I recall. Don't know if it was legal...
Quote from: Scotty72 on August 10, 2008, 03:05:40 AM
Wow! What kind of school did you go to? Sounds like an Okay place to me ;D
It was just a run-of-the-mill middle-class suburban junior high school, not particularly progressive. I mean, they refused to let me take shop and forced me to choose between sewing and cooking. I unwisely chose sewing and spent the entire semester slaving over a vile wrap-around skirt that my mother forced me to wear to a restaurant at the end of the semester. One of the few times in my teen years that she actually made me wear a skirt/dress. "You made it, so you're going to wear it." I resisted, she insisted, she won and gave me the silent treatment all night. In fact, she wasn't even speaking to my dad that night, either, although she was immensely polite to the waiter. Can't let strangers know about our dysfunctional family, can we, Mother Dear?
I chose that stupid skirt project because the teacher told me it was the easiest thing to make. In fact, she refused to let me make anything else. At the end of the semester, in front of the entire snickering class, she openly criticized my sewing skills, which had not improved one whit, and berated me for choosing such a difficult project. Nasty little...well, never mind. I guess I should have counted myself lucky that by taking a foreign language I escaped taking an entire year of home ec.
Such wonderful memories I have of junior high school. I don't know which was worse, sewing class or the girls' locker room.
Quote from: Scratchy Wilson on August 09, 2008, 05:08:20 AM
Lucky me my mom never made me wear anything I didn't want to. I wore over-alls and baggy jeans for most of my life. Freshman year I wore a skirt for halloween but it was only on for maybe 30 minutes.
yep kinda the same 4 me. my mom never made me wear dresses. she knew she got a son ;) she wanted me 2 have long hair though. put ribbons on my hair & stuff :eusa_sick: :eusa_sick: :'( :-\ but that didnt last long & it aint happenin again :laugh: :laugh:
I know how you feel about the sewing class Arch. I took it because my mom and aunt made sewing look easy, so I figured "Hey, easy A+". Not so much. I really sucked at it, and all I was doing was a dumb pillow. My teacher didn't make fun of my crappy skills, but she did make me re-do everything about 20 times before I got it EXACTLY the way she wanted it done. So the dumb pillow project took me 2 weeks, when everyone else was done in like, 2 days, talk about feeling stupid.
The teacher eventually just told me to never come back to her class room. I broke just about all of her sewing machines at some point and time, purely on accident ::)
Unfortunatly she did have to deal with me once more because she was also the teacher for a cooking class. Lucky for her I was really good at that. Unlucky for her I still broke everything, lol.
Your teacher sounds like she needed to pull something out of her craw and stick it in her mouth.
My High School did something like the whole Slave Day thing a while ago, but they called it something else because Slave Day was apparently racist. They had it turned into something stupid like 'Willing Worker' or some crap like that.
Quote from: Scotty72 on August 10, 2008, 01:56:47 PM
So the dumb pillow project took me 2 weeks, when everyone else was done in like, 2 days, talk about feeling stupid.
...
Your teacher sounds like she needed to pull something out of her craw and stick it in her mouth.
...
My High School did something like the whole Slave Day thing a while ago, but they called it something else because Slave Day was apparently racist. They had it turned into something stupid like 'Willing Worker' or some crap like that.
Now, why couldn't I have made a freakin' pillow? I spent an entire SEMESTER on that stupid worthless ugly skirt. I barely finished it...she told me that if I didn't finish it by the end of the term, I would not get a C in the class. I was mortified...brainy, intellectual me...sewing, typing, and PE ruined my GPA in junior high.
My sewing teacher was a woman of mature years (okay, nearing retirement age) who used to whip up a brand new outfit on Tuesday and wear it to class on Wednesday. We didn't think much of her sense of style--in this respect, I was just like all the girls in the class. But I never did that horrible singsong irony-couched-in-false-praise thing that they used to do: "OH, Mrs. SNIFF! What a BEAU-tiful OUTfit! Did you make it yourSELF?" Mrs. Sniff (not her real name) never seemed to see through it, but it set my teeth on edge every. single. freaking. time.
I can't fault your school for not using the term "slave day." I can well understand why "slave" would be objectionable to a lot of Americans who immediately associate it with racism and past wrongs in this country. But if you take the long view, then slavery is less racist and more nationalist. "Slave" to me in those days (that is, junior high) conjured up America's past but also, for example, the Roman Republic. I mean, in something like a fifty-year period, there were three servile wars, if I'm not mistaken.
(I'm no historian, and my memory is a bit sketchy. Just about everything I know about Rome--which is not much--I learned in the wake of
Spartacus many years ago, and my rather cursory research was clouded by my disappointment that Spartacus and Antoninus never got it on in the movie.)
Actually Arch, I was upset that Laurence Olivier and Tony Curtis didn't get it on.
Posted on: August 10, 2008, 03:47:55 PM
Oysters AND snails. :laugh:
Quote from: Nero on August 10, 2008, 02:51:27 PM
Actually Arch, I was upset that Laurence Olivier and Tony Curtis didn't get it on.
Posted on: August 10, 2008, 03:47:55 PM
Oysters AND snails. :laugh:
HA! One of my favorite catch-phrases. I wish I'd been able to see that scene when I was a kid, although it probably would have been deleted, since I always watched the film on regular broadcast television. So as a kid, I never had the opportunity to be disappointed about that scene. Olivier was very smooth. But I've always had a father-son fixation, so it was Spartacus and Antoninus for me.
Did you ever see Anthony Hopkins when he was being interviewed about his voice work for that scene? Hugely entertaining.
no never seen that one. love that scene though.
We didn't get much of a choice, the teacher forced the pillow project on all of us. Some of the girls wanted to make shirts and the few guys that were in that class wanted to make gun cases, but no, we all had to do pillows.
Iunno, my Aunt and my Mom used to make their own cloths pretty avidly, and you just learned to nod your head and smile and say it looked good. Sarcasm or not, I still think its better than a direct insult. Not by much, but still.
I dont know why, but for some odd reason everytime I hear or read the word Slavery my mind automatically goes to an image of some type of BDSM. Not sure why, because I love history and I know America's terrible past on the subject, and its really no laughing matter or something you just brush off as nothing. But I guess its just me and my wonderful teenage hormones :-\
I'm sorry to say I dont know the movie you're talking about, but my condolences on you not getting the story line you wanted.
OMG you don't know Spartacus, Scotty?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOCsNrzlV2k&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOCsNrzlV2k&feature=related)
Quote from: Nero on August 10, 2008, 05:54:36 PM
OMG you don't know Spartacus, Scotty?
Lol, no, sorry. I've seen 300, is that any help?
Now that one I didn't see. Is it good?
It depends on what you're into. There's some blood and lots of violence and Ripped guys running around in speedo's and capes. The ending was a bit of a let down to me, and since my school's masscot is a Spartan, the whole movie plot was basically ruined during the 3 trimesters of pep assemblies we had.
I'm actually not bad with sewing. Took two sewing classes one in middle school and one in high school. I'm not the greatest sewer but I do ok. And fortunantly only had to make a pillow in one class and an apron in another.
And I sometimes still sew, I made part of my klingon costume, made my wallet, made a sporran. and back when I found myself forced to use a purse I started out making my own. Also altered my binder a bit as well.
I tend to work with both cloth and swade. Some people may consider it a women's thing, but I consider it a useful skill. Can save money plus make things the way you want them rather than how others decide to make things.
in 9th grade i was bullied into conforming, and kept it up at my new school through my sophomore and junior year. wasnt really a phase.... idk. my whole life is kindof a girly phase. :P making it not a phase. >_> im just kindof feminine and flamboyant. plus i like to make things. be they a 24 ft half pipe (yea, i really did that) or an awesome ppouch to hold my dungeon and dragons dice. making things is what i do. be it the manly woodworking side or the girly making a costume side.
Yeh, lol I also tend to patch up my own shirts when I have holes in them.
Quote from: Aiden on August 10, 2008, 07:29:23 PM
Some people may consider it a women's thing, but I consider it a useful skill. Can save money plus make things the way you want them rather than how others decide to make things.
There's definitely a psychological element having to do with perceived gender roles. Only girls sewed--or so I thought--therefore, I felt as if I was being punished for being a girl. And there were very few class periods in which I didn't wonder, quite enviously, what kinds of woodworking projects the guys were doing in shop class; my older brother used to bring home cool stuff that he had made, and I wanted to be just like him. Finally, my mother sewed, and I didn't want to be like her. She gave me sewing lessons when I was in elementary school--I really did hate it and had no skill--yet this early experience gave me no advantage when I took the sewing class a few years later. I guess not being good at it gave me even more of a feeling that I wasn't normal, gender-wise. But that's me getting stuck in binary-style thinking.
Sewing IS a useful skill, but it only serves the purposes you mentioned when you can do it well. I can put stitches into cloth, I can fix a gap in a seam, and I can sew on a button. But that's about the extent of it--I've never been particularly "crafty" or good with my hands, so I just learned a few basic sewing survival skills. I think it's interesting that my sewing teacher never taught us how to hand-sew a button; it's not quite as simple as it looks. So I had to teach myself later.
I also never QUITE got the hang of the sewing machine. I would have been better off stitching by hand, but "Mrs. Sniff" would not allow it. We butted heads over this issue quite a few times. I thought my argument was quite logical because there weren't enough machines to go around, but logic didn't enter into it.
On the other hand, I was hell on wheels when it came to grooming a horse or mucking out a stall. (You know, about three quarters of the kids at the stables were girls.) I guess you just go with what you like and do best. But in my less admirable moments, I still do tend to see cooking as a necessary and gender-free survival skill and sewing as the ninth circle of gender-role hell. Aiden, thanks for yanking me back from that once again. Occasionally I need a good swift kick to make me remember that gender roles (although they might have some biological/genetic basis) are largely constructed. This concludes my sermon. :D
Posted on: August 10, 2008, 08:13:01 PM
Quote from: Chett on August 10, 2008, 07:56:18 PM
plus i like to make things. be they a 24 ft half pipe (yea, i really did that) or an awesome ppouch to hold my dungeon and dragons dice.
Ha! One of the few things I ever made outside of that dismal sewing class was a slightly lopsided triple-stitched handmade velvet pouch for my ex's D&D dice. That pouch was a symbol of my love; I sweated every stitch.
He knew it, too--and he knew why I never made myself a similar pouch.
Hmm... I took a Home Ec. class last year, but because I had to. It was all bundled together: woodshop, Home Ec. and Computers. I wanted woodshop, but I had to suffer through home ec first, and after I had to suffer through computers. I was actually pretty good at sewing (I was making my own halloween costume during that time), but I could never get the knots right. I can work with a sewing machine pretty well, and I also made some little pouches for stuff out of old jean material a few years ago. I was good at woodshop, but sometimes I would have trouble keeping my projects symmetrical when they were supposed to be. And I already knew a ton about computers, so the whole time I was sitting following very slowly with the rest of the class so i wouldn't get in trouble.
In any case, I know sewing and cooking are considered girly, but my dad can sew and cook, no big deal. He hemmed up some pants for my sister and I when they were too long. And if he hadn't known how to cook, we would have been eating junk food for 5 years after my parents got divorced, and before he married my step-mom. So I just try and remember that, and also that they are useful skills to know.
And I guess that's why I hate my sister's boyfriend so much. His family is from the south, so they apparently believe very strongly in gender roles. And therefore, he does not no how to cook, sew, or even do his own laundry! And he's almost old enough to get his own place! I mean come on!
I rather enjoy sewing. My mom showed be the basics when I was small and I figured the rest out myself. The first time I did any serious sewing, it was the middle of the night, I had just gotten back from my first real show (Bleeding Kansas \m/), and I had a bunch of patches I wanted to put on this jacket. It turned out awesome. Ever since, I've been into modifying clothes. I made a couple of femmy shirts and a couple of makeshift binders (none of which worked) and modified a vest (added patches, buttons, and pockets and hemmed up the sleeves where I ripped them off). When I sew, time passes real quick and I get something out of it. I'm into beads, too, on clothes or as jewelry.
Its funny but at one time (and still in a lot of places) all professional chefs were men. So are a whole lot of fashion designers.
Quote from: tekla on August 11, 2008, 11:41:57 AM
Its funny but at one time (and still in a lot of places) all professional chefs were men. So are a whole lot of fashion designers.
Well, of course. What idiot would want women to actually get PAY for doing something that they should be doing FREE? And why should women get recognition or respect for something that should be everyday? And anyway, we might trust a woman to make quotidian meals or even holiday meals, but only men can make truly gourmet meals.
I am ashamed to say that when I was a kid, I saw camping vacations and hotel vacations as roughly equivalent in entertainment value (they have different assets) until my mother refused to go on another camping trip one year--because in a camp-out, she always wound up doing all the cooking and cleaning up, but in a hotel she could order room service or eat out, and let someone else do the scut work. Camping was a vacation for everyone else, but not for her.
Her refusal changed the way I looked at a lot of things, actually. I guess she held some value for me after all. I tend to forget that.
On my family camping vacations (and we were in Iowa and by the time my kids were out of high school they has gone swimming in the Atlantic, the Pacific, the Gulf of Mexico and the Great Lakes, including Lake Superior) my wife never cooked - of course at home the only thing she could make for dinner was reservations. I wanted my boys to know how to do it.
Today, they are both big into backpacking in the Northwest. And they still do the cooking.
Mom did cooking at home when lived with her. father did cooking when camping. Of course my mom rarely went with us camping lol