well me and my mom went to the mall she asked if i liked a girls shirt and i said no then shes like of course or something and it upset me i dont like my body so y would i accentuate it
Posted on: August 16, 2008, 06:28:35 PM
so im just a little bit upset no a lot im freaking more depressed now
Sorry about that bro :(
Does your mom know?......Either way, I'm sure we've all had to deal with that "this would look nice on you!" phase at some point or another. You're not in this alone :)
I understand how you feel. What sucks for me is that I want to wear girl's shirts but only if I had a flat chest and an overall more masculine look. I love how effeminate men look like in girl's clothes.
I've been dressing like a boy since I was old enough to pull on my own cloths, and mom used to be pretty bad about fighting with me. I mean sometimes she would just flat out insult me and try to prod me into something pink and frilly. She's nothing like that now and doesn't even bother going near the girls cloths anymore, but every now and then she'll hold up a really ugly shirt or pair of pants from way across the other side of the store and say 'Oh you'd look soooo good in this' in a really sarrcastic voice. I always just pull a stereotypical gay man voice and say "OH MY GOD! That would go great with those shoes I bought last week!" We get a kick and people in the store laugh a little too if they dont think we're making ourselves look like asses.
I feel for you though, but sometimes parents say things that they dont know hit you that hard.
Trust me, I hate it too.
Not necessarily the shopping part, but the little comments. Any time I point out an attractive guy, she blurts out "He must be gay right?" or "Well, he's gay if you like him." Pisses me off.
my mom does now but she wouldnt accept what i told her so..
I've wore boys clothes since i was about 6, and my mom never really got use to it. When i was little all i wore was jerseys, i think she thought i would grow out of it. Then when i was about 17 she would always make comments like, "these pants or this shirt don't look very girly, do you like it?" even last summer she tried to get me to wear girls clothes to my sister's wedding, I didnt but she tried. She gets better and better all the time though. She actually goes shopping without me and buys me guys clothes all the time, just give it time man.
this is one of the things i've never understood... why parents freak out. For as long as I remember i've worn the clothes that I wear. Always have. My parents never made an issue of it. I guess I'm lucky.
LOL. from at least age of 4 or 5 I fought my mother when she tried to put me in a dress, and as got older refused to wear anything really girly or flowery. She eventually gave up lol and pretty much let me wear what was comfortable in, though I was to afraid to go to far with it. Mostly dressed in either boys or girls as long as it wasn't girly looking. Often was taken as a boy in the stores when was younger. Even after hit puberty I still wore mostly masculine/androgen cloths though ended up fighting with father as he wanted me to dress more feminine. Did have 2 feminin episodes where tried somewhat but couldn't go full way. *shrugs* But yeh haven't really had to many problems with shopping for cloths in past, and am glad I don;t live with them anymore and can buy my cloths by myself.
I dont think Ive worn girls clothes since I was like 6, lol
My Mum would never buy me boys clothes but would get me gender-neutral stuff.
Now as a adult I dress in purely male attire. I went home to visit last month for the weekend, Mum did my washing for me and wanted to know why I had "Bart Simpson" and "Superman" undies :D
:laugh: My Mum tends to buy most of my clothes (just 'cause I can never be bothered - I have enough so that if I do a load of washing every week there's no problem, so why buy more? ???), and that includes undies. She'll be about to head off for the shops and ask,
"I'm going to do some clothes shopping, do you need anything? How about socks or undies? What sort? Frilly? Lacey?"
"No thanks, plain black's fine."
"Oh. Sure? 'Cause they have some nice lacey knickers now."
"No thanks, I'm happy with just plain black."
She's very good, though. No frilly knickers since my early teens (even though she always asks), and she now gets mainly black socks, too. But yes, when I was about 11 or 12 she did the whole "Hey, this skirt [painfully short!!!!] would really nice on you what do you think yes let's get it." Just like that. When we're at the shops together she'll still occasionally do the "What about this one? It would look really nice on you," but if you can get her away from the women's section, she's fine. As for the rest of my family... I don't think Dad *or* my brother have noticed at all - the few men's shirts I've worn in front of them have all said something interesting (like my Sarcasm Society one), so I don't think they've made the 'my daughter/sister's suddenly wearing men's shirts' connection yet ::).
Fight the frills, brothers!!! >:D
My mom gave up the clothing fight with me when I was 12 and finally outgrew my last hideous Jessica Gunnysacks confection. Blech! Haven't worn girly clothes outside of a theatrical production since. These days the most I get from her is the odd semi-neutral comment. Like the other day when I buzzed my hair really short. (1" on top, faded down to 1/4" on the back and sides.) As I walked up the drive she said, "Wow. Your hair's really short. Did you mean to get it that short? You look like a boy." She said it in that jovial tone that says, "I think it's awful, but if you did it on purpose I don't want to say anything."
Really, it's a wonder that my family hasn't figured things out yet. I've been shopping almost exclusively in the Men's department for years now, and my hair gets shorter every time I see them. Actually, I think my mom suspects. And yet I still don't have the courage to come out... *sigh* :icon_no:
There was actually a point in my life where I liked dresses and to be girly. I don't think it's got a thing to do with being a man, with all these fabulous cross dressers running around. Gay men are highly effeminate, so I don't think they're any less of a man for appreciating those sorts of things. Now you wouldn't catch me dead in a dress, but only because it affects how well I pass. I think if I was a bio male that I'd enjoy cross dressing. Does that mean I'll wear dresses after transition? Probably not. I'll never be a bio male who's manly enough to pull that off.
Quote from: Elwood on August 19, 2008, 05:34:55 PM
There was actually a point in my life where I liked dresses and to be girly. I don't think it's got a thing to do with being a man, with all these fabulous cross dressers running around. Gay men are highly effeminate, so I don't think they're any less of a man for appreciating those sorts of things. Now you wouldn't catch me dead in a dress, but only because it affects how well I pass. I think if I was a bio male that I'd enjoy cross dressing. Does that mean I'll wear dresses after transition? Probably not. I'll never be a bio male who's manly enough to pull that off.
I think for me, that "I like wearing girl clothes" stage in my life was when I was 6 and under. I almost tried to force myself to start liking dresses recently so I don't think I honestly liked them..I just tried to learn to live with them.
I don't care anymore though, I'll dress how I like and that doesn't involve dressing like a girl. Hah. I'm probably off topic, so I'll just say this to ya emoboi: Be assertive if you don't like dressing a certain way. When I go shopping with mom, I usually wander off into the guys section and come back with what I like, but I can do that cause my sister usually comes too and my mom and sister get along great shopping. In your case I'd just say be assertive, say "mom this is what I like, please don't make me wear things I don't." and be done with it.
I never liked girl's clothes EVER, though I wore them my entire life. Why I didn't allow myself to shop in the men's department, even when women's clothes did NOT fit my body (I have no natural waistline, built straight like a guy). I hate the fabrics women's clothes are made out of, I hate how flimsy they are, I hate how impractical they are. As a kid I was forced to wear dresses, and I tried to figure out ways to wear pants to school. I remember my mother letting me buy boy's sneakers when I was in 3rd grade and I was SO HAPPY!! And I didn't care that I got teased about them on the playground.
I went through phases where I tried to be a good woman and would buy nicer/dressier clothes, but they didn't fit me or my personality and I couldn't pull them off. I felt fake and gross.
Very comfortable now. Looking forward to buying my first suit and tie after top surgery!
Jay
Quote from: sneakersjay on August 19, 2008, 08:45:26 PM
I remember my mother letting me buy boy's sneakers when I was in 3rd grade and I was SO HAPPY!!
Same, but it was the fourth grade for me :D I bragged about them being boys sneakers to my friends, I was so happy about it. I didn't get teased, but one of my friends said "So?" and something along the lines of wearing her brother's sneakers all the time.
Quote from: trapthavok on August 19, 2008, 09:07:33 PM
Quote from: sneakersjay on August 19, 2008, 08:45:26 PM
I remember my mother letting me buy boy's sneakers when I was in 3rd grade and I was SO HAPPY!!
Same, but it was the fourth grade for me :D I bragged about them being boys sneakers to my friends, I was so happy about it. I didn't get teased, but one of my friends said "So?" and something along the lines of wearing her brother's sneakers all the time.
Back in the olden days ;) , erm, I mean the 60s, wearing boy's clothing was not common (unless you were a hippie teenager, where the parents complained they couldn't tell boys from girls!!). Thank G*D for the 70s when we could convince our parents times had changed, and Pant Suits (hideous!!) were in!! At first we could only wear pants on gym days. Then on days with temps below 10 degrees. And finally when we bought our own clothes. Then, for me, it was Levis and plaid shirts and docksiders. ;D
Quote from: trapthavok on August 19, 2008, 08:32:43 PMQuote from: Elwood on August 19, 2008, 05:34:55 PMThere was actually a point in my life where I liked dresses and to be girly. I don't think it's got a thing to do with being a man, with all these fabulous cross dressers running around. Gay men are highly effeminate, so I don't think they're any less of a man for appreciating those sorts of things. Now you wouldn't catch me dead in a dress, but only because it affects how well I pass. I think if I was a bio male that I'd enjoy cross dressing. Does that mean I'll wear dresses after transition? Probably not. I'll never be a bio male who's manly enough to pull that off.
I think for me, that "I like wearing girl clothes" stage in my life was when I was 6 and under. I almost tried to force myself to start liking dresses recently so I don't think I honestly liked them..I just tried to learn to live with them.
I don't care anymore though, I'll dress how I like and that doesn't involve dressing like a girl. Hah. I'm probably off topic, so I'll just say this to ya emoboi: Be assertive if you don't like dressing a certain way. When I go shopping with mom, I usually wander off into the guys section and come back with what I like, but I can do that cause my sister usually comes too and my mom and sister get along great shopping. In your case I'd just say be assertive, say "mom this is what I like, please don't make me wear things I don't." and be done with it.
In reality, clothes are not gendered. A man does not have a natural aversion to skirts. All of that is social.
Quote from: sneakersjay on August 19, 2008, 08:45:26 PMI never liked girl's clothes EVER, though I wore them my entire life. Why I didn't allow myself to shop in the men's department, even when women's clothes did NOT fit my body (I have no natural waistline, built straight like a guy). I hate the fabrics women's clothes are made out of, I hate how flimsy they are, I hate how impractical they are. As a kid I was forced to wear dresses, and I tried to figure out ways to wear pants to school. I remember my mother letting me buy boy's sneakers when I was in 3rd grade and I was SO HAPPY!! And I didn't care that I got teased about them on the playground.
I went through phases where I tried to be a good woman and would buy nicer/dressier clothes, but they didn't fit me or my personality and I couldn't pull them off. I felt fake and gross.
Very comfortable now. Looking forward to buying my first suit and tie after top surgery!
Jay
Then you weren't buying very good clothes. I know of a lot of girl's clothes that are of great quality and are practical. Because of my body structure, a lot of it works better for me. I've had to search for a very long time to find boy's clothes that fit me.
Girl's cloths Practical? lol not even their measurements are practical.
Yes lets go wear some flimsy to tight girl gloves to keep hand's warm and be 'pretty'. Oh crap the guys gloves are actually insulated!
Lets go wear high heels so can be pretty but can't run and so we can damage our feet. So now we have to get help from the guys who have no such worries because their shoes actually make sense!
Let's see by waist is 40 inches around so I must wear a 18. While mens if your 40 around you get 40.
Let's go wear a dress so we can look pretty and freeze our legs off. (least women finally saw some common sense on that one)
Really, most the womens cloths have found are designed to look nice, not be practical. Yeh there are some, expecially now but women still get stuck with this wearing stuff impractical just to look nice.
Really only reason you might say they fit you better is because their one practical thing is their designed for a woman's body shape. Not a mans. If your shapped like a man then womens won;t fit correctly if your shaped like a woman then mens won't
Posted on: August 20, 2008, 12:50:48 PM
BTW dress thing, I'm not guilty of wearing a dress and freezing legs off, but a kilt yes lol Least a kilt is warmer
Quote from: Aiden on August 20, 2008, 11:52:43 AMGirl's cloths Practical? lol not even their measurements are practical.
Then you're talking about crappy clothes. Not everything that is tailored for the female body is a load of crap for "fashion value." I fit in women's fatigues and flight suits better than men's because I am small.
Quote from: Aiden on August 20, 2008, 11:52:43 AMYes lets go wear some flimsy to tight girl gloves to keep hand's warm and be 'pretty'. Oh crap the guys gloves are actually insulated!
Except not all girl's clothes are like that. And I got girl's gloves for biking because they actually fit my hand. I know some guys who do that too because they like a more uniform fit rather than something that's baggy. And my mother has women's drivers gloves that are some of the best gloves I've ever seen. They are insulated.
Quote from: Aiden on August 20, 2008, 11:52:43 AMLets go wear high heels so can be pretty but can't run and so we can damage our feet. So now we have to get help from the guys who have no such worries because their shoes actually make sense!
Not everything a girl wears is high heels. For instance, I can wear both a woman's or a boy's shoe. For working out, I bought women's athletic shoes because I have a narrow heel. It would be potentially dangerous to buy a boy's athletic shoes just because I "refused" to. I don't want to break my ankle because of some social stigma I have towards a "female cut." In fact, since all athletic shoes are ugly, no one was really able to tell the difference.
Also, women's sandals are quite nice. They are closer to the foot, less bulky, and so I find they catch on things less often.
Quote from: Aiden on August 20, 2008, 11:52:43 AMLet's see by waist is 40 inches around so I must wear a 18. While mens if your 40 around you get 40.
The numerical system has got nothing to do with the practicality of the clothing.
Quote from: Aiden on August 20, 2008, 11:52:43 AMLet's go wear a dress so we can look pretty and freeze our legs off. (least women finally saw some common sense on that one)
Except anyone can make that mistake. Men wear shorts in the snow sometimes. There isn't a major difference. Dresses are not practical, but that is not what I had in mind when I was talking about what is practical for my body. I'm not going to buy boy's clothes for exercising or working if they're going to put me in danger just because I'll feel "uncomfortable" in something that is UNISEX in style but female cut. I am not going to deny that I am petite and that I'm loaded with estrogen and that this is the way my body is. When I start taking T and my body fills out, I won't need to wear female cut things anymore.
Female cut is not just a "slim style to look smooth and sexy." They're things like shin guards that will stay on and goggles that won't fall off your face and gloves that won't get sucked into a table saw and a jacket that won't catch the wind and blow me down the street. I am not the only petite guy in the world who sometimes has to be practical with his shopping-- which sometimes includes buying clothes that don't come in men's sizes.
Quote from: Aiden on August 20, 2008, 11:52:43 AMReally, most the womens cloths have found are designed to look nice, not be practical. Yeh there are some, expecially now but women still get stuck with this wearing stuff impractical just to look nice.
Then you don't know where to look. I shop in uniform stores pretty often, where clothes are durable and useful. When I buy "normal" clothes, I shop in the boy's department. The only girls stuff I have left is underwear, and I'm probably going to change that today when I go out. I have avoided getting guy's underwear because I fear my structure will not fit with it. We'll find out today, probably.
Quote from: Aiden on August 20, 2008, 11:52:43 AMReally only reason you might say they fit you better is because their one practical thing is their designed for a woman's body shape. Not a mans. If your shapped like a man then womens won;t fit correctly if your shaped like a woman then mens won't
It's not that black and white. I am not shaped curvy like a woman, so a lot of boy's clothes fit. However, I am too small to fit a men's. So when I need something that is uniform quality, women's is all I can get. You can't buy heavy duty clothes in children's sizes.
Quote from: Aiden on August 20, 2008, 11:52:43 AM
Posted on: August 20, 2008, 12:50:48 PM
BTW dress thing, I'm not guilty of wearing a dress and freezing legs off, but a kilt yes lol Least a kilt is warmer
Except I'd never freeze my legs off, either. I live in fracking California where it doesn't get colder than 70.
Quote from: Elwood on August 20, 2008, 12:13:53 PM
Except I'd never freeze my legs off, either. I live in fracking California where it doesn't get colder than 70.
1) You said "fracking", which appears in my favorite show Battlestar: Galactica and that makes me happy.
2) I live in California and it's rarely above 65 degrees. 40s and 50s are the norm.
Quote from: Milo on August 20, 2008, 01:54:17 PM
Quote from: Elwood on August 20, 2008, 12:13:53 PM
Except I'd never freeze my legs off, either. I live in fracking California where it doesn't get colder than 70.
1) You said "fracking", which appears in my favorite show Battlestar: Galactica and that makes me happy.
2) I live in California and it's rarely above 65 degrees. 40s and 50s are the norm.
California's very temperature-diverse. Depends where you live. Where I'm at, the temperature's usually around 60-80, depending on the season, but often goes to like 35 in the winter, and 105 in the summer.
Quote from: Milo on August 20, 2008, 01:54:17 PM
Quote from: Elwood on August 20, 2008, 12:13:53 PM
Except I'd never freeze my legs off, either. I live in fracking California where it doesn't get colder than 70.
1) You said "fracking", which appears in my favorite show Battlestar: Galactica and that makes me happy.
2) I live in California and it's rarely above 65 degrees. 40s and 50s are the norm.
Which part?
I'm from the San Diego area. Although, currently, I am in the north bay area.
Yeah, I say frack on here instead of the standard F-word because I kept getting in trouble for cussing.
I live on the Monterey Peninsula. Central Coast-ish.
You know, Elwood, not everyone shopping for women's clothes wants to be stuck in carhartt and dickies. It's probably also difficult to find a workplace where a flightsuit is appropriate attire, unless it's government issued and OD green. Of course clothing made for work purposes are going to be more durable- you can thank the old time sailors for that. But on the whole, men's (NOT BOYS) clothes are far more utilitarian. They're routinely made with heavier weight fabrics to withstand more wear. Decorative pockets on women's styles amazingly transform into actual functioning pockets on menswear. Boys clothing is generally about as durable as girls' clothing, but little surpasses menswear for durability.
As for your bike gloves/shoe example-- haven't you stated previously that you're <100 pounds? Most female-bodied folk can easily wear men's gloves and shoes without them feeling bulky. I have the opposite take on them as you- women's gloves are routinely far too short in the fingers, not large enough in the wrist, etc. I'm above average height for a woman, but my weight puts me closer to the average than yourself.
And freezing your butt off in a dress is a very relevant example. Dresses are the staple of female-based formal wear. How often do you see men shedding their tux/suit jackets because of the heat and their dates gladly accepting them to keep from freezing? Technically, dresses should be warmer than shorts of the same length (see the great glove v. mitten debate) but because of circulation/fat distribution, women are generally colder in skirts. This is the same reason that female-specific sleeping bags are on the market- they have more insulation in the feet and butt to combat the ever-cold regions of the majority of women.
But you're right. Sort of. There is no inherent male aversion to skirts and that is, yes, societal. But gender is also a social construct... so clothing IS gendered. If it wasn't, why would there be men's and women's departments? Before there was clothing, there was the gender binary. Social construct that says girls wear this, boys wear that and designers work accordingly.
More women are victimized while wearing high heels than any other type of shoe. Why? They're targeted because women in heels cannot run away. I was at a wedding two weeks ago where the men in the group escorted women wearing high heels across the soft lawn because they could hardly even walk on it. How can you say this is practical? The high heel is continually sexualized in the male-dominated media and thus women continue to wear them despite damage to their skeletal systems and at risk of harm. Why? To be seen as attractive. The media is the cause of the majority of this- it dictates what is made, what is sexy, etc., and society follows suit. I doubt many people would agree that footbinding seems like a particularly hot idea, but until recently it was sexualized in Chinese culture. (please, do a google image search if you are unfamiliar with the appearance of this) In a hundred years, our great-grandchildren could have the same view on the barbaric footwear practices of western women.
Quote from: Mister on August 20, 2008, 03:51:52 PMYou know, Elwood, not everyone shopping for women's clothes wants to be stuck in carhartt and dickies. It's probably also difficult to find a workplace where a flightsuit is appropriate attire, unless it's government issued and OD green. Of course clothing made for work purposes are going to be more durable- you can thank the old time sailors for that. But on the whole, men's (NOT BOYS) clothes are far more utilitarian. They're routinely made with heavier weight fabrics to withstand more wear. Decorative pockets on women's styles amazingly transform into actual functioning pockets on menswear. Boys clothing is generally about as durable as girls' clothing, but little surpasses menswear for durability.
I never said that was the case. It was merely my example. It isn't the only example. For instance, women's fitness clothes are designed for the female frame. Not all of them "look" girly since plenty of female athletes like the butch look. They do, however, fit better, which is safer.
Depending on the shop, a flight suit (used, obviously) will be cheaper than a jumpsuit. Best used for things like painting and on site work. You'd wear your semi-nice clothes under it. It protects you from whatever the work is you're doing.
Men's clothing generally is better. I never was suggesting anyone ALWAYS wear women's clothing or something. I just think it's mysogynistic to refuse anything that's slightly female because you fear it will hurt your "manhood."
Quote from: Mister on August 20, 2008, 03:51:52 PMAs for your bike gloves/shoe example-- haven't you stated previously that you're <100 pounds? Most female-bodied folk can easily wear men's gloves and shoes without them feeling bulky. I have the opposite take on them as you- women's gloves are routinely far too short in the fingers, not large enough in the wrist, etc. I'm above average height for a woman, but my weight puts me closer to the average than yourself.
Yes, I am, but gaining weight will not make my bone size larger. My hands are the size they're going to be. T might widen them slightly.
Quote from: Mister on August 20, 2008, 03:51:52 PMAnd freezing your butt off in a dress is a very relevant example. Dresses are the staple of female-based formal wear. How often do you see men shedding their tux/suit jackets because of the heat and their dates gladly accepting them to keep from freezing? Technically, dresses should be warmer than shorts of the same length (see the great glove v. mitten debate) but because of circulation/fat distribution, women are generally colder in skirts. This is the same reason that female-specific sleeping bags are on the market- they have more insulation in the feet and butt to combat the ever-cold regions of the majority of women.
I don't see that sort of thing where I live because the weather is nice. Also, women are not REQUIRED to wear dresses. The is a right time and a wrong time to wear a dress. It's your own damn fault if you decided to wear a two piece in the snow.
Quote from: Mister on August 20, 2008, 03:51:52 PMBut you're right. Sort of. There is no inherent male aversion to skirts and that is, yes, societal. But gender is also a social construct... so clothing IS gendered. If it wasn't, why would there be men's and women's departments? Before there was clothing, there was the gender binary. Social construct that says girls wear this, boys wear that and designers work accordingly.
Gender is proven to be an actual recognized part of the brain. It might not be "biological," but the fact that my brain ought to register with my body but doesn't suggests that gender is more than just social.
Men and women's departments are again based on the stereotypes. But people are not OBLIGATED to shop there. You're actually pretty much abolishing what the transgender movement stands for; to dissolve the lines of division between the genders and accept gender expressions of all kinds. From what you're saying, cross dressers are damned or bad people because they don't "identify" as the gender they are presenting as.
Quote from: Mister on August 20, 2008, 03:51:52 PMMore women are victimized while wearing high heels than any other type of shoe. Why? They're targeted because women in heels cannot run away. I was at a wedding two weeks ago where the men in the group escorted women wearing high heels across the soft lawn because they could hardly even walk on it. How can you say this is practical? The high heel is continually sexualized in the male-dominated media and thus women continue to wear them despite damage to their skeletal systems and at risk of harm. Why? To be seen as attractive. The media is the cause of the majority of this- it dictates what is made, what is sexy, etc., and society follows suit. I doubt many people would agree that footbinding seems like a particularly hot idea, but until recently it was sexualized in Chinese culture. (please, do a google image search if you are unfamiliar with the appearance of this) In a hundred years, our great-grandchildren could have the same view on the barbaric footwear practices of western women.
I never said high heels were a good thing. Whoever brought that up brought that up out of nowhere.
I said that SOME female clothing is practical BECAUSE it is tailored for the female frame, which, deny it as much as you will, transmen do have before transition. My fitness shoe example is nothing like your high heeled nonsense. A fitness shoe must fit the foot properly. Yes, SOME transguys will fit into boy's fitness shoes. But most won't before T. A fitness shoe must fit damn near perfectly, not just "sort of" or "mostly." It must fit like a glove.
Brains, like the rest of the living word, are subject to evolution. There is no proof that a binary based society influenced human brain development.
The transgender movement stands for blurring the lines? Maybe the umbrella term. The 'movement' I belong to supports the transition from male to female and vice versa. I'm not saying I don't support the gender queer folks or the cross dressers, but this forum is FTM transsexual talk, not the general transgender or androgyne forum. FTM implies Female to Male, not Female to somewhere inbetween.
I never said it did.
You're only taking the gender roles and separating people more, disrespecting your brothers, sisters, and comrades who are genderless. You're pretty much ->-bleeped-<-ting all over anyone that's null gendered, androgynous, bigendered, fluid, or gender queer because they don't meet the "binary" system you like so much. :/
This may be the FtM forum, but I don't care where the frack I am. I respect my TS comrades unconditionally, regardless of their gender expression.
Oh, Elwood.
I love how you can take me debunking your ripping apart Aiden's thread on female clothing being impractical and take it to mean that I'm anti-un/bi/gendered folk, when the main reasoning of the thread was this....
You're small and most men's clothing does not fit. Utility clothing is good for that, sure, but not what most women wear. Casual men's clothing is built with my utility than women's. Those who introduce and promote the impractical clothing for women are the same group who continue to oppress them.
Posted on: August 20, 2008, 03:11:27 PM
And I haven't said a single word about gender roles. I'm talking societal norms. I don't believe women SHOULD wear heels or dresses. I'm stating status quo.
Except I didn't rip anything apart. I expressed any opinion. What, can't stand a view that differs from your own? If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
You missed my point entirely. I was not saying that the only practical women's clothing was utility. Quality clothing is possible to find. Not at the department stores, maybe, but it does exist. Not everyone who lives as rough as a man wants to look that way. Not all women are dainty little nothings, and yet that's how you make it sound like. You make it sound like all women's clothing is useless, implying that women can't do any better. :/
You're getting way off track if you're thinking of accusing me of oppressing women.
Having never accused you of oppression, I may very well accuse you of horrible reading comprehension for both thinking that I'm against anyone who's not a 'true' transsexual and that you're somehow dictating current fashion trends.
Oooh, what a man you are. ::) Are you going to beat your chest and swat all the flies, King Kong?
You have proven to me that you are incapable of having an intelligent discussion with anyone who disagrees with you.
i'm sorry, did I claim to be uber-man? i think not.
no, dude, you just have all the answers. why you come on this board to do nothing but attempt to discredit others is beyond me.
Except you're the same way. ;D
::)
Mister and Dan, let it go, will ya? Is this really worth your time? Or fair to the OP? Take it to PM if you're so riled up.
Here's the difference- I post from personal experience. I've been on testosterone for quite a while, pass 100% as male, have had surgeries and consider my transition to be complete.
You post from what you've found on the internet or, to my best guess, from what you think is logical. While neither of these are invalid, I refuse to have my points discredited from someone without a personal experience to trump my own.
Quote from: freespeechz on August 20, 2008, 05:36:03 PM
::)
Mister and Dan, let it go, will ya? Is this really worth your time? Or fair to the OP? Take it to PM if you're so riled up.
No, I'm done.
And Mister, I don't care if you're "more trans" than me with your testosterone injections and your "100% passing." That doesn't make you (figuratively) have more balls than anyone else on here. And maybe you don't think it, but I do pass always unless someone outs me.
Nothing I am talking about on here has anything to do with the fracking internet. My post about you being misogynistic is also based upon my personal experience. I don't give a flying rat's tail if you think being older or "more transitioned" makes you more informed than me; it doesn't.
Ok, OP...
i'm sorry your mother wants you to wear clothing typically assigned to your birth sex. perhaps a gentle nudge in the right direction would help. if that's no good, start shopping for your own back to school clothes. if you're forbidden from wearing clothing of choice, move out. couch surf with friends, stay with a relative, move into a dorm.
and maybe i'm confused because i'm getting so damn old... but aren't a large percentage of emo boys wearing women's clothes these days? seems all the rage with the hipsters here in the bay area... and you've already got the swoopy hair down.
Also, girl's clothing is getting more androgynous/masculine. At Target they sell underwear that looks like boy's underwear in the girl's section. And, no, it's just "->-bleeped-<-ty" because it's a girl's item. I bought boys underwear from the boy's section and-- GASP-- they're exactly the same except they have a real fly instead of a decorative one.
I'd buy boyish things from the girl's section when my mom had full control over my life because she liked it if it was from the girl's section, no matter how it looked. It disturbed her to take me to the boy's section to get socks. But only the boy's section had the length I wanted. Go figure.
Maybe your mom has the same stupid hang up, and if it says "Girl's Hanes" on the inside, but screams "boy's panties" on the outside, she might still accept it. It's a way of compromising until you move out.
Not that I'm saying you shouldn't fight for your place.
gehh! This is stupid! There are people of different body shapes. For you Dan women's cloths may be more practical due to size. For others size isn't an issue, so other matters are taken into account reguarding practical.
Btw Don't treat me like an arse and then go and say the same dang thing I was saying.
I said that not all womens cloths were that way (go read again) I did not claim that all women were skinny little things (I'm not that way myself) But a lot of the cloths designs seem to be built around someone's ideas of what a women's body should be and not how they really are.
I myself, biologically female, even if wanted to I couldn't wear most women's blouses or shoes or gloves. I'm definantly not straight up and down like most guys but to me it's more practical to get a man's glove that is insulated and fits well enough than a dinky little women's glove that is to tight. Most places I go for shoes, a size 10w in womens is very difficult to find outside of high heels. And still don't fit right. It's more practical for me to get a size 9 in mens. As far as shirts, most blouses always seem to snug around the shoulders for me.
Well then consider yourself lucky. Most transguys I meet for some reason are tall and big like bioboys. I guess I'm one of the rare few that actually has the body of a cute girl. Sorry that I don't meet your standards. I will never fit a men's anything. I won't get that much bigger.
Quote from: Elwood on August 20, 2008, 06:12:13 PM
Well then consider yourself lucky. Most transguys I meet for some reason are tall and big like bioboys. I guess I'm one of the rare few that actually has the body of a cute girl. Sorry that I don't meet your standards. I will never fit a men's anything. I won't get that much bigger.
Yeh well consider yourself lucky as well. Least you don't have to worry as much about big breasts and hips giving you away
Quote from: Aiden on August 20, 2008, 06:14:43 PMQuote from: Elwood on August 20, 2008, 06:12:13 PMWell then consider yourself lucky. Most transguys I meet for some reason are tall and big like bioboys. I guess I'm one of the rare few that actually has the body of a cute girl. Sorry that I don't meet your standards. I will never fit a men's anything. I won't get that much bigger.
Yeh well consider yourself lucky as well. Least you don't have to worry as much about big breasts and hips giving you away
And all of that can be changed. The thing is, I'd rather not pass before T and surgery to be rewarded with a manly frame after transition. I like to think about the future, not the present. And my future looks pretty grim.
"At Target they sell underwear that looks like boy's underwear in the girl's section."
;D Yes indeed they do. I wear those. I love them. They're comfy, and you can pack them without fear of the pack falling out too.
Quote from: Elwood on August 20, 2008, 06:16:02 PM
Quote from: Aiden on August 20, 2008, 06:14:43 PMQuote from: Elwood on August 20, 2008, 06:12:13 PMWell then consider yourself lucky. Most transguys I meet for some reason are tall and big like bioboys. I guess I'm one of the rare few that actually has the body of a cute girl. Sorry that I don't meet your standards. I will never fit a men's anything. I won't get that much bigger.
Yeh well consider yourself lucky as well. Least you don't have to worry as much about big breasts and hips giving you away
And all of that can be changed. The thing is, I'd rather not pass before T and surgery to be rewarded with a manly frame after transition. I like to think about the future, not the present. And my future looks pretty grim.
Not all guys are big though. You already pass why would you pass any less. You'd just be a small guy lol Might find someone attracted to the cute little guys. :)
Locked till the AC kicks on in here. ;)
Posted on: August 20, 2008, 07:21:53 PM
Just a reminder after reading through this thread:
Let's not get personal and let's remember that transguys come in all shapes and sizes and that we all have features that bother/ed us so let's try to be a little more sensitive about that.