I must be feeling kinda introspective tonight...well, I have another therapy appt. tomorrow, and as usual I'm going through extreme ambivalence. I kind of look forward to my therapy because I see it as getting me closer to my goal, and I really like my therapist. But I also dread it because it's very hard for me to talk about personal stuff, ESPECIALLY gender stuff...I tend to keep it all inside and don't even talk to my partner much about it, and it's just so damned hard to trust my therapist. Not because I think he's going to do anything bad to me but out of habit, I guess. I keep thinking that sooner or later we're going to have to get down to brass tacks, and then I'll have to talk about stuff that I don't want to talk about because it's private, and I have always kept my private stuff...private.
I hate standing in the waiting room with my stomach churning. This is my fourth appt. tomorrow. I thought I would be calmer by now, but I still have the pre-appt. jitters, in spades, a full twelve hours before I have to go in. And it just gets worse from there.
I feel really stupid, embarrassed, chicken. If I don't watch out, I'll start worrying about THAT and won't be able to make any progress. Talk about adding a complex to an existing complex...
I don't know what the heck I'm doing here, posting like this. I'll probably regret it in the morning. I'm not looking for sympathy. I've gotten through the other appointments and I'll get through this one. So that's not it. I guess I just don't get why I'm still nervous. It's not like I've never been through therapy before...although I have to admit that I never talked to anyone about GID before. I guess maybe that's it. For most of my life, it has been my own secret, and there's a lot of baggage that goes along with it. And I still don't want to talk about it. It's just hard for me to talk about stuff like this. And now I see that I am repeating myself. Well, I'm not going to clean up this post. I'm too fried to be a good little editor tonight.
I don't know, am I the only one who feels this way? Ambivalent, I mean.
I'm extremely anxious about starting therapy as well, even though I am getting therapy for issues other than gender. However I may not be starting for a month or two, seeing as my psych can't get me a first appt for some undetermined time, he couldn't say, and I'm hoping he can refer me to someone good, as the first two therapists I saw, bad results.
I just don't talk about stuff. Ever. It's a habit and I'm nervous about the idea of telling someone everything. Even about gender, which is probably the easiest issue I have to talk about.
-sigh-
Well just know you're not alone, and I don't even have an appointment in the near future.
just letting you know you're not alone.
i really don't really like the idea of therapy, but i'm going to get toward my goals.
i mean i like my therapist a lot but that still doesn't help me get rid of my original idea about how i just don't think i need therapy to be happy, outside of gender issues. i feel like she's a relative that i don't have too much in common with and we're catching up over coffee each week. great therapist but it feels so forced sometimes. i have my next session with my mom in a few days. it's going to be really awkward, and i don't know what i'm going to say and more importantly, how i'm going to say it. with fear, with sadness, with hesitancy, with certainty? i have no idea.
i hope you warm up to it and feel comfortable getting the private details of your life out. it feels really good, ultimately, especially when it gets you want you really want :] think of it as the end justifying the means?
Actually I like therapy because I can spill my guts without fear of retribution or criticism or condemnation. I can talk about stuff I could never talk about with family or friends. I find it hugely helpful.
Jay
I go to therapy only because I have to in order to get referrals for transitioning. There's nothing much I feel the need to discuss otherwise, so after around 15 minutes of updating my therapist on my latest progress (name change was last week!), we sort of awkwardly sit together, make small talk, and wait for our hour to end. It's a good thing I only see him every 2 or 3 weeks!
But anyhow... what I've learned over the years is that while it's not a good idea to hide things from your therapist, you also have every right to keep some things private. In my younger years, I used to think I was required to answer every single question they asked or else... or else, I'd be struck by lightning or something. But geez..... they're not gods. They're humans. And so, depending on the circumstances, it's not necessarily unheathly to choose to not discuss something. Occassionally, my therapist has asked me something that I'd rather keep private or would rather only discuss with family or friends, and I've simply said, "I'd prefer to not get into that." He usually says, "OK, no problem." And that's that.
Everyone is different. Some people love to spill their guts, others prefer more privacy in life. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it's not affecting your progress.
I really get excited about my appointments, because they are bringing me closer. But EVERY time before my appointment, I get so nervous that I'm panting loudly in the waiting room. Shaking, sweating, the works. Cold, clammy palms and an uneasy mind. I calm down after the therapist starts speaking. All of them so far have had a really calm air about them. I'm hoping Dr. Demara can also put me at ease when I see him on the 17th. Before then, I'll see my psychiatrist on the 25th of this month. We'll talk about my anxiety medication and how it's going. I'll also probably ask her about what sort of medical tests I should take for testosterone approval (liver, hormones, a physical, gyno visit, etc). I am ready to stop asking and to start demanding. I keep walking around the T issue, pussy-footed, hoping one of the doctors will give me a gentle push. But they won't. They're waiting for me to step up to the plate on my own and say it. "When will we start HRT?"
I don't like talking about gender issues, either. It's awkward to say, "I feel like I have/should have a penis, but I don't." Saying ->-bleeped-<- like that feels weird. But it's how I really feel. I also feel weird working with female counselors/therapists. Dr. Demara will be my first male therapist. I'm also afraid very personal questions will come up. I'm usually very good at being honest and sharing, but when it comes to my sexual fantasies and such, I don't tell people about that. But it is relevant...
Quote from: Elwood on August 18, 2008, 11:34:16 AM
I'm also afraid very personal questions will come up. I'm usually very good at being honest and sharing, but when it comes to my sexual fantasies and such, I don't tell people about that. But it is relevant...
Y'know, it's funny what I consider to be too personal to talk about yet and what I actually WILL talk about. I mean, I might tell him that my partner and I had sex and I really like doing a particular sex act--pretty explicit. But talking about stuff that seems much more innocuous is hard. Today, when I tried to talk about the tenuous hold I have over my emotions, I couldn't use the words "emotions" or "cry." Instead, I talked about my fears that I will lose control. He wasn't sure what I meant, and I couldn't put it into more specific terms, not yet. I was kind of angry because I wanted to be more specific, but I wasn't able to go there.
At some point, I will need to talk about the fantasies and preoccupations that I've had since earliest childhood, including sexual fantasies and stuff that I used to think made me a genuine nutjob, certifiable if not criminal. All of this ties in with my gender identity. All of it is secret. All of it will have to come out.
Today I did talk about some of my family history, which skirts my gender issues. So I made a little progress, I guess. And I had a sort of breakthrough today AFTER my appointment. It might signal an attitude change. I think it does. I hope it does...because I would like to be able to walk in there and feel fairly optimistic and confident, not always feeling like I'm on the effing edge every single minute.
I know that he's trying to help me, and for sure I need the help. But I like to be self-reliant and independent, so I think I'm still having trouble accepting that I need the help.
I've been doing Non-GID therapy since last october. I felt the same way you did, I really couldn't trust my therapist and sometimes she's given me reason not to.
I still don't feel 100% trust in her sometimes and I find myself lying to her now and then to keep her outside of the wall I've built. But now she's helping me find a GID therapist and I feel sorta bad. So I get to start a clean slate with a new therapist....and this time I'm going to try and let them in because that's the only way I can get the help I need.
I know how you feel Arch but just think, you don't want to be lying to your therapist like I did. :) If you want help, just remind yourself that they're there to help you
Quote from: trapthavok on August 19, 2008, 12:48:09 PM
I know how you feel Arch but just think, you don't want to be lying to your therapist like I did. :) If you want help, just remind yourself that they're there to help you
I have lied to other therapists. I have hidden things from other therapists. And I have never shared my GID stuff with another therapist. I could rationalize all of this lying and hiding because I honestly didn't see the relevance of my weird proclivities--I guess that shows how much in denial I was and how much I compartmentalized my issues--and I could emotionally justify my hiding and evasions because my identity was secret, secret, secret and I knew that I had to keep it heavily protected out of self-preservation. I was terrified that I would be institutionalized if anyone found out. Maybe that's overly dramatic, but that's the way I felt. I knew that even if I didn't wind up in the adolescent ward at the loony bid, I would wind up on the couch in some shrink's office. And I don't say "shrink" as a pejorative now--it's how I looked at things then.
Although there is a lot of stuff that I can't talk about yet, I definitely have no intention of lying to my therapist, so no worries there, Nathaniel. From the very start, he seemed to "get" me, and he never questioned my gender or sexuality. His acceptance has allowed me to feel pretty trusting even at this early stage. The main problem now is...me. I guess that's what separates me from transguys who already know what they want and who only need therapy to satisfy basic requirements in the transition process. They don't need counseling, or not much. I do. And I'm still coming to grips with that. Hence the mixed feelings.
With this therapist, I no longer have any excuses for hiding, and I'm finding that pretty ->-bleeped-<-ing frightening.
Quote from: Arch on August 19, 2008, 05:03:41 AM
Quote from: Elwood on August 18, 2008, 11:34:16 AM
I'm also afraid very personal questions will come up. I'm usually very good at being honest and sharing, but when it comes to my sexual fantasies and such, I don't tell people about that. But it is relevant...
Y'know, it's funny what I consider to be too personal to talk about yet and what I actually WILL talk about. I mean, I might tell him that my partner and I had sex and I really like doing a particular sex act--pretty explicit. But talking about stuff that seems much more innocuous is hard. Today, when I tried to talk about the tenuous hold I have over my emotions, I couldn't use the words "emotions" or "cry." Instead, I talked about my fears that I will lose control. He wasn't sure what I meant, and I couldn't put it into more specific terms, not yet. I was kind of angry because I wanted to be more specific, but I wasn't able to go there.
At some point, I will need to talk about the fantasies and preoccupations that I've had since earliest childhood, including sexual fantasies and stuff that I used to think made me a genuine nutjob, certifiable if not criminal. All of this ties in with my gender identity. All of it is secret. All of it will have to come out.
Today I did talk about some of my family history, which skirts my gender issues. So I made a little progress, I guess. And I had a sort of breakthrough today AFTER my appointment. It might signal an attitude change. I think it does. I hope it does...because I would like to be able to walk in there and feel fairly optimistic and confident, not always feeling like I'm on the effing edge every single minute.
I know that he's trying to help me, and for sure I need the help. But I like to be self-reliant and independent, so I think I'm still having trouble accepting that I need the help.
I'm just afraid they'll think it's a fetish and say I'm not GID.
Quote from: Elwood on August 19, 2008, 05:30:57 PM
I'm just afraid they'll think it's a fetish and say I'm not GID.
I don't see how they could think that, El. To me you're all boy, as much as any guy on this site. So I see pix of you and think how well you pass, and I read your posts and never think of you as female, so how could the pros? So I'm thinking, "No, that would never happen! That's just nerves talking!"
Stay strong, and keep your eyes on the ball. I'll try to do the same. No, I WILL do the same. None of this "try" nonsense.
And now I'm going to
try to get some sleep. ::)
FWIW, nothing of a sexual nature came up in my therapy and isn't really relevant. A transman fantasizing about being penetrated vaginally isn't a contraindication to GID, so why bring it up at all?
Quote from: Arch on August 20, 2008, 03:43:08 AMQuote from: Elwood on August 19, 2008, 05:30:57 PMI'm just afraid they'll think it's a fetish and say I'm not GID.
I don't see how they could think that, El. To me you're all boy, as much as any guy on this site. So I see pix of you and think how well you pass, and I read your posts and never think of you as female, so how could the pros? So I'm thinking, "No, that would never happen! That's just nerves talking!"
Stay strong, and keep your eyes on the ball. I'll try to do the same. No, I WILL do the same. None of this "try" nonsense.
And now I'm going to try to get some sleep. ::)
You're right. 2 of my doctors thought I was "really" a boy before they knew that I was their patient named "Sara."
Yeah. It really is my nerves talking.
Just to add; my sexual fantasies have nothing to do with having a female body. It's just I don't want them to think it's androphilia that makes me feel male. I don't want to express that I would gain a great deal of pleasure from having a penis because I fear they'll think it's fetish driven. You know?
I would imagine in a managed care deal you have to really push, as their first priority is to not spend any money if they can help it.
It could only be seen as fetish driven if the only points you can identify as positive for having a penis are sexual. I didn't bring up genitals at all. I mentioned top surgery only when my therapist asked me if I rough timeline for transition. If you'd like, I'll send you some of the things I brought up to my therapist. They may either be spot on for you or not, but it's something other than, "Well, doctor, I'd really like to be hung."
Quote from: Mister on August 20, 2008, 06:04:33 PMIt could only be seen as fetish driven if the only points you can identify as positive for having a penis are sexual. I didn't bring up genitals at all. I mentioned top surgery only when my therapist asked me if I rough timeline for transition. If you'd like, I'll send you some of the things I brought up to my therapist. They may either be spot on for you or not, but it's something other than, "Well, doctor, I'd really like to be hung."
Schwhat? That first part you said confused me... I see the ups and downs of having a penis (and not just literally). It isn't going to fix all my problems or anything. And the reasons for having a male body and male parts aren't just sexual. I want my body to feel right. I feel like it's missing. I think just that park will make me not "just a fetishist." I hope.
Yeah. I'll rough a timeline for transition to show my therapist. It won't involve phallo. It'll look something like:
-Therapy
-Testosterone
-Living Full Time for a While
-Top Surgery
-???
-PROFIT
I don't know what to do after top surgery.
I don't know if that offer was to me, but hey, I can't have too much information. Do send it if you have the time. Or just post it. Other people might find it useful. :]
Meh, I'm not interested in posting publicly. i'll PM you with it shortly.
My point about your penis wanting being seen as a fetish was this...
Demara: "So, why do you want a penis?"
You: "So I can be a top! So I can do it! So I can make my partner gag!"
I'm paraphrasing, of course.
If the penis question comes up, have an answer or two that doesn't sound like it's based in sex. For instance, you'd feel more comfortable standing to pee.
Quote from: Mister on August 20, 2008, 05:52:57 PM
FWIW, nothing of a sexual nature came up in my therapy and isn't really relevant. A transman fantasizing about being penetrated vaginally isn't a contraindication to GID, so why bring it up at all?
I'd say that the need to talk about this stuff probably varies from person to person. My situation is complicated by the fact that I AM gay, and that made it so hard for me to understand myself when I was growing up. I mean, I could easily have been a straight female. After all, I liked guys...and maybe the tomboy thing really was just a phase. Maybe?
None of which could plausibly explain why I was so frantic (almost to the point of tears) to play the male lead in the class play in first grade or why I could never forgive my mother for throwing out my favorite shirt (a hand-me-down from my brother) when I was seven or eight, or why I just plain hated myself for years and years.
I was brought up in a much less progressive and accepting era than that of most guys who are posting here these days, I was brought up in a military family (traditional!!! conservative!!!), and I further gather (from observation of other families) that my mother was ultra-straitlaced, even by military family standards. Certainly she had mental issues of her own that were never addressed and never talked about. It's no wonder I was a screwed-up kid and young adult.
For me, sex and gender are intimately tied up with each other, and I still feel some guilt and shame about it all. I not only want to talk about it, I NEED to talk about it. To sort it all out and figure out who I am. And where I want to go. So that's what I'm gonna do.
Quote from: Elwood on August 20, 2008, 06:00:21 PM
Just to add; my sexual fantasies have nothing to do with having a female body. It's just I don't want them to think it's androphilia that makes me feel male. I don't want to express that I would gain a great deal of pleasure from having a penis because I fear they'll think it's fetish driven. You know?
Elwood, I see where you're coming from, although I'm not sure that my understanding of the term "androphilia" is the same as yours. Of course you want to be taken seriously as a transman. From my vast fount of trans wisdom (:P), I feel that if you really connect with your therapist, he will understand that you know who and what you are, and he will pose no permanent obstacle to your transition. Other people have told me that if one therapist doesn't do it for me, I should find a therapist who does. I think it very likely that Demara (sp?) will see you for what you are--trans--and help you to achieve your goals. But if he doesn't--IF--then you should feel within your rights to pursue counseling elsewhere. Sure, you'll face delays, and you might have to fork out more money, but the important thing is that you have OPTIONS. Always keep that in mind. It will help you.
I think you'll be okay. If your therapist is anywhere near as cool as mine, then you will be in very good hands indeed.
Quote from: Mister on August 20, 2008, 06:13:55 PM
Meh, I'm not interested in posting publicly. i'll PM you with it shortly.
My point about your penis wanting being seen as a fetish was this...
Demara: "So, why do you want a penis?"
You: "So I can be a top! So I can do it! So I can make my partner gag!"
I'm paraphrasing, of course.
If the penis question comes up, have an answer or two that doesn't sound like it's based in sex. For instance, you'd feel more comfortable standing to pee.
LOL!
The answer would be for me...
Me: Because I feel like it should be there. I also have phantom sensations. For instance, it'll feel like my balls itch, but they're not there to scratch. How irritating is that? Wouldn't you hate it if your balls itched and you couldn't scratch them?
Demara: Yes. Yes I would.
Me: I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that. I also would like to be able to stand to pee without using a plastic thing that either looks nothing like a dick or a rubber dick that someone might spot. Seriously. Not to mention if I break the seal the piss will run down my leg. Ever spring a leak in your dick, Doc?
Demara: A few times, I believe.
Me: And you know what? I also would like to be able to express myself sexually as I want to. I don't think I can pleasure in the body I have now. Sure, I can be asexual, but if there's a way not to, I'd like to try that before assuming I'll never have sex. How could you live without sex?
Demara: I couldn't. Ahem, I mean... next question.
xD
Posted on: August 20, 2008, 04:44:53 PM
Quote from: Arch on August 20, 2008, 06:36:20 PMQuote from: Elwood on August 20, 2008, 06:00:21 PMJust to add; my sexual fantasies have nothing to do with having a female body. It's just I don't want them to think it's androphilia that makes me feel male. I don't want to express that I would gain a great deal of pleasure from having a penis because I fear they'll think it's fetish driven. You know?
Elwood, I see where you're coming from, although I'm not sure that my understanding of the term "androphilia" is the same as yours. Of course you want to be taken seriously as a transman. From my vast fount of trans wisdom (:P), I feel that if you really connect with your therapist, he will understand that you know who and what you are, and he will pose no permanent obstacle to your transition. Other people have told me that if one therapist doesn't do it for me, I should find a therapist who does. I think it very likely that Demara (sp?) will see you for what you are--trans--and help you to achieve your goals. But if he doesn't--IF--then you should feel within your rights to pursue counseling elsewhere. Sure, you'll face delays, and you might have to fork out more money, but the important thing is that you have OPTIONS. Always keep that in mind. It will help you.
I think you'll be okay. If your therapist is anywhere near as cool as mine, then you will be in very good hands indeed.
I meant it in the context of being turned on by being a man. But I just checked and I realized that's not the definition of the word. Sorry about that, lol.
Yeah. Demara has a lot of experience with transpeople, and I know I'm trans. We're going to connect and have an understanding, I'm sure.
Right. That's what I mean. Identity, not sexuality.
I should add to all of this that I seem to have broken through a lot of my ambivalence. The possible breakthrough that I mentioned earlier seems to have been significant. I have made progress this week. A lot of progress.
Whew!
And thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for the support, guys. I sure as heck needed it, whether or not I was willing to acknowledge it.
Quote from: Arch on August 20, 2008, 06:36:20 PM
Quote from: Mister on August 20, 2008, 05:52:57 PM
FWIW, nothing of a sexual nature came up in my therapy and isn't really relevant. A transman fantasizing about being penetrated vaginally isn't a contraindication to GID, so why bring it up at all?
I'd say that the need to talk about this stuff probably varies from person to person. My situation is complicated by the fact that I AM gay, and that made it so hard for me to understand myself when I was growing up. I mean, I could easily have been a straight female. After all, I liked guys...and maybe the tomboy thing really was just a phase. Maybe?
None of which could plausibly explain why I was so frantic (almost to the point of tears) to play the male lead in the class play in first grade or why I could never forgive my mother for throwing out my favorite shirt (a hand-me-down from my brother) when I was seven or eight, or why I just plain hated myself for years and years.
I was brought up in a much less progressive and accepting era than that of most guys who are posting here these days, I was brought up in a military family (traditional!!! conservative!!!), and I further gather (from observation of other families) that my mother was ultra-straitlaced, even by military family standards. Certainly she had mental issues of her own that were never addressed and never talked about. It's no wonder I was a screwed-up kid and young adult.
For me, sex and gender are intimately tied up with each other, and I still feel some guilt and shame about it all. I not only want to talk about it, I NEED to talk about it. To sort it all out and figure out who I am. And where I want to go. So that's what I'm gonna do.
Then talk away. I was saying it shouldn't be required or necessary for the therapist to ask. But if you want to dissect your fantasties and sexuality and such, have at it. Oh, and if you run across one of the lame therapists who claim that gay transmen do not exist (there are some, believe me. the DSM lists homosexuality as one of the diagnostic criteria for GID), bring up Lou Sullivan. He was a gay FTM activist who routinely showed up at offices of such disbelievers to attempt to debunk their theories, as well as many other things.
Quote from: Mister on August 20, 2008, 06:54:28 PM
Oh, and if you run across one of the lame therapists who claim that gay transmen do not exist (there are some, believe me. the DSM lists homosexuality as one of the diagnostic criteria for GID), bring up Lou Sullivan. He was a gay FTM activist who routinely showed up at offices of such disbelievers to attempt to debunk their theories, as well as many other things.
Cover your ears, Mister.
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTT???!!!!!!
Are you sh*tting me? There are still dinosaurs who deny the existence of gay transmen? What planet are these people on?
Hm. I haven't actually read the DSM on this. When you say that the DSM lists homosexuality as a criterion, do you mean that the pre-transition FTM client/patient is supposed to be attracted to "other" women and the pre-transition MTF people are supposed to be attracted to "other" men? I didn't know that. I wish they would depathologize the whole thing already, anyway.
Yeah, I love Lou Sullivan (never met him, but I look up to him as a true pioneer for folks like me). Thanks for reminding me.
Quote from: Arch on August 20, 2008, 07:02:23 PM
Quote from: Mister on August 20, 2008, 06:54:28 PM
Oh, and if you run across one of the lame therapists who claim that gay transmen do not exist (there are some, believe me. the DSM lists homosexuality as one of the diagnostic criteria for GID), bring up Lou Sullivan. He was a gay FTM activist who routinely showed up at offices of such disbelievers to attempt to debunk their theories, as well as many other things.
Cover your ears, Mister.
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTT???!!!!!!
Are you sh*tting me? There are still dinosaurs who deny the existence of gay transmen? What planet are these people on?
Hm. I haven't actually read the DSM on this. When you say that the DSM lists homosexuality as a criterion, do you mean that the pre-transition FTM client/patient is supposed to be attracted to "other" women and the pre-transition MTF people are supposed to be attracted to "other" men? I didn't know that. I wish they would depathologize the whole thing already, anyway.
Yeah, I love Lou Sullivan (never met him, but I look up to him as a true pioneer for folks like me). Thanks for reminding me.
For sure. I'm not sure where you're located, but they exist. Frightening, ain't it?
You hit the homosexuality bit on the nose- a criteria for transmen is lesbian-identification and the opposite for transwomen.
uh I don't feel like making a new thread about this since there is already...sort of a thread. Hope you don't mind Arch.
I got an appointment with a therapist relatively quickly (like....I called Friday and got an appointment this Monday). They're close to my house, they had an opening....so of course my first thoughts are "ok, what's the catch?"
Unfortunately my new therapist....is not technically a GID specialist. And by not technically I mean, she said she's dealt with sexuality in the past before but it's not her area of occupational expertise.
*Huge Sigh* Talk about feeling like you're going nowhere. The thing is though, I wouldn't go back to my old therapist if you paid me. She was great a lot of the time, but I never fully trusted her, I still don't, and sometimes she gave me reason not to so I've told her quite a few lies and I can't get a new slate. Then she'll just peg me as a liar even if I try to change.
Then ohhh then there's this new therapist. I seriously hoped I was talking to an incompetent secretary on the phone when I was making the appointment for Monday because:
1) she wasn't really answering my questions about whether or not the insurance would cover it,
2) she wouldn't let me tell her WHY I wanted the appointment until AFTER I gave her all my information (which is just stupid especially since it turns out she's not technically a GID therapist and that's what I was looking for),
3)When I told her I was looking for someone who specializes in GID she asked "Gastro Intestinal...?" ugh. Clearly I know I have the number for a therapist why the HELL would I be looking for a colon doctor with a therapist's phone number. It makes me wonder "do you even KNOW what Gender Identity Disorder is??"
4) I feel like she's had more experience with sexuality than GID and she would turn all my sessions into "but you don't know your sexuality so how do you know you're a boy" like my last therapist did, except it would be 24/7.... And I feel like sexuality is only a very small part of being trans. I neeeeeeed someone who understands that I need to talk about my gender, NOT my sexuality. I'm very comfortable in my sexuality. But I NEEEEEED to talk about my gender.
5) It turns out I WAS talking to my future therapist on the phone and she was referring to herself in third person the whole time, AS THOUGH she were a secretary talking to a patient about the therapist. You're a little crazy, lady. Why didn't you just tell me it was you on the phone.
So I'm very frustrated about this whole situation right now because I get to start a relatively clean slate with someone but just one conversation with her on the phone makes me feel like she's incompetent, which then makes me feel like I don't think I can trust her.... I want to be able to trust someone because I WANT help so badly.....
Ugh I need help trusting people. Who knows, she may turn out to be more help than I'm thinking and I may be able to actually trust her but all this doubt is making me want to go in on Monday with guarded emotions....
Quote from: trapthavok on August 23, 2008, 09:09:57 PM
uh I don't feel like making a new thread about this since there is already...sort of a thread. Hope you don't mind Arch.
Hell, no. I don't mind at all. (I can see it now: Yo, dude, yer pissin' in my yard. War! WAAAAR!!!! Okay, enough empty posturing. That's not my style at all. Welcome to the thread; it's very nearly dead, and you are reviving it.)
This seems like a very weird situation. I can see why you have reservations. Since you made the appointment, you might as well take the opportunity to suss her out, but if she doesn't even know what GID is....well, that doesn't sound promising AT ALL.
And the whole third-person thing sounds extremely weird to me. I'm with you. Why not just answer the phone as herself?
I'm not quite sure why you called her in the first place, though. Not to attack you, but did you get a faulty reference or something? Isn't there a specialist anywhere near you?
Whether you can trust her is one issue, but I'm more concerned that she is not qualified to aid you in your travels. If she doesn't specialize in GID, then I don't think she is.
I'd like to hear what others have to say about this.
I know what you mean about wanting help--I feel the same way, but get me into the chair and I'm my own worst enemy. Sheesh.
Quote from: Arch on August 23, 2008, 09:59:42 PM
I'm not quite sure why you called her in the first place, though. Not to attack you, but did you get a faulty reference or something? Isn't there a specialist anywhere near you?
ARRRGHHHHH I called the g@% damned insurance company and asked for a GID reference that they would cover, and they gave me her name and number. So I THOUGHT based on the insurance company's referral, this was a doctor who specialized in GID. It's going to be hard finding specialists near me though because many of the therapists I find in online searches aren't in the same county...it's quite a drive getting around where I live, let alone trying to drive OUTSIDE of where I live. I know I told people before that if possible they should seek help even if it's a drive, but it's REALLY a drive here (idiot drivers...) and I want someone I could hope to see with some regularity without having to worry "will I need 1 or 2 hours to drive to get there today...is it raining? god then I'll need 3..." when in a normal city, you could probably get in and out no problem.
No worries about attacking me lol you had a valid question, I don't feel attacked.
Quote from: Arch on August 23, 2008, 09:59:42 PM
This seems like a very weird situation. I can see why you have reservations. Since you made the appointment, you might as well take the opportunity to suss her out, but if she doesn't even know what GID is....well, that doesn't sound promising AT ALL.
And the whole third-person thing sounds extremely weird to me. I'm with you. Why not just answer the phone as herself?
Whether you can trust her is one issue, but I'm more concerned that she is not qualified to aid you in your travels. If she doesn't specialize in GID, then I don't think she is.
She already weirds me out, definitely. I'll probably just go see her this one time and never see her again. I REALLY need a GID specialist, not someone who "thinks they may be able to help me regardless" just because she wants my copay.
I'm very concerned about her credentials myself. What if 5 months from now I want/am ready for my letter and she's just not qualified to give it to me? Then I'll have wasted 5 months and will have to start all over again, that's what. I need someone who can help me with EVERYTHING GID not just "oh hey lets figure out the sexuality you already know." I like boobs. But not on me. Eff off lady.
Sounds like you need to go back to the insurance people and try again?
You know, the more I read about other guys and their difficulty just in FINDING a qualified therapist within decent driving distance, the more fortunate I feel to live so close to mine. He's less than ten miles away, right in the gay part of town where I feel pretty comfortable. It's maybe a fifteen-minute drive, plus time to scout around for a parking space.
Wow. Something else to feel good about. I should add that to my other thread.
Anyway, I've got my fingers crossed for you, Nate. Let us know what happens with this therapist and with the insurance guys. I hope you don't wind up with one of those insane drives that you talked about. You might as well be in Outer Mongolia from the sound of it.
Quote from: Arch on August 23, 2008, 10:38:23 PM
Sounds like you need to go back to the insurance people and try again?
Yeah I'm calling them monday BEFORE my appointment. This is not acceptable.
Quote from: Arch on August 23, 2008, 10:38:23 PM
I hope you don't wind up with one of those insane drives that you talked about. You might as well be in Outer Mongolia from the sound of it.
Me too. LOL at outer Mongolia.... People just really suck at driving here ON TOP OF the fact that there's a crapload of us living here so the overcrowding causes daily traffic outside the city, in the city, you name it.
My school for example is about a 15 - 20 minute drive. If there's no such thing as traffic. When school's in session however I need to give myself a good 35-40 minutes to get there, which is effing ridiculous. My current therapist? Tch she's in the part of town that's KNOWN for the worst drivers. So close to my school and would probably take 5-10 minutes to get there without all the people living here, but instead it takes me 20 minutes to get there because there's always people on the road. Just trying to get around here is ridiculous.
Quote from: Mister on August 20, 2008, 05:52:57 PM
FWIW, nothing of a sexual nature came up in my therapy and isn't really relevant. A transman fantasizing about being penetrated vaginally isn't a contraindication to GID, so why bring it up at all?
It's kind of silly, but this remark still sort of bothers me because it isn't accurate. I don't have such fantasies. I'm not ragging on you--I don't expect you to be psychic--but I just have to set the record straight.
The fantasies I do have are completely tied up in my identity issues, and they have nothing to do with vaginas. ("Not that there's anything wrong with that...")
Quote from: Arch on August 26, 2008, 04:55:25 PM
Quote from: Mister on August 20, 2008, 05:52:57 PM
FWIW, nothing of a sexual nature came up in my therapy and isn't really relevant. A transman fantasizing about being penetrated vaginally isn't a contraindication to GID, so why bring it up at all?
It's kind of silly, but this remark still sort of bothers me because it isn't accurate. I don't have such fantasies. I'm not ragging on you--I don't expect you to be psychic--but I just have to set the record straight.
The fantasies I do have are completely tied up in my identity issues, and they have nothing to do with vaginas. ("Not that there's anything wrong with that...")
Congratulations? :oP
Quote from: Mister on August 26, 2008, 05:06:52 PM
Congratulations? :oP
Boyo, now you've really got me confused. I was just imparting information.
Perhaps I did it...poorly. (Hope you're an Indiana Jones fan; otherwise, you will not get that reference!)
I can totally understand that question mark, now that I think about it. :P
If a transguy fantasizes about vaginal penetration... what's stopping him from doing it? :/
Quote from: Elwood on August 26, 2008, 06:00:34 PM
If a transguy fantasizes about vaginal penetration... what's stopping him from doing it? :/
Um, I'm not sure what you mean by "it." What's stopping him from continuing to fantasize, or what's stopping him from having vaginal sex?
I guess if I parse your sentence correctly, you must mean the latter. What's preventing him from going through with the act.
Well, I guess it would be the same thing that has so far prevented me from acting on my fantasies of anal sex. Fear, inhibition, lack of concrete knowledge about the experience. I mean, I've done anal a few times, but I wouldn't consider myself knowledgeable.
So on the vag side, much of the same. Only I guess it would also make a difference if the transguy hasn't had that kind of sex before at all. And if he sees it as a female way of having sex, which I gather that a lot of transguys do.
And there's a sort of psycho-biological response that's hard to control. When I was much younger, I wanted to have sex this way and had had it a few times with different guys--I guess I was looking for something--but when I got with a long-term boyfriend and got past the first few ->-bleeped-<-s, I started going through these attacks of...call it frigidity...when the whole thing just felt WRONG somehow and I didn't want to be penetrated there, so I clenched up and it hurt like hell and I couldn't go through with it. But I still had fantasies about successful vag sex. Or, well, more like images and stuff.
I never really understood those "attacks" till very recently. I think I was okay with front-door sex as long as I was bouncing around from guy to guy and basically experimenting, but when I settled down with one fella and saw that this was going to be my sex life from then on, something kinda snapped. And I didn't really make an explicit connection, but that kind of sex wasn't exactly compatible with my longstanding sexual fantasies, which were man on man and had been for years...ever since I started having sexual fantasies, in fact.
I dunno, does that give you any insights at all?
Hmn. I guess I just will never get it. I don't think I'd ever be able to have vaginal sex. It's a part I shouldn't have. It "doesn't compute."
Quote from: Elwood on August 26, 2008, 06:34:05 PM
Hmn. I guess I just will never get it. I don't think I'd ever be able to have vaginal sex. It's a part I shouldn't have. It "doesn't compute."
Well, you have your own self image, that's for sure, and you have to work with that. But we are definitely coming from different places here. You've identified yourself as male before getting into sexual relationships. I didn't have that opportunity, so I didn't seriously entertain the notion that I might be a guy in the wrong body, regardless of what my imagination was conveying to me.
I will say this, though. When I first came out as FTM--that is, as a woman who WANTED to become a man--and from then on--I started having reservations about sex again. A lot of times I didn't even want to do it because it was incompatible with my image of myself. I mean, once I made the leap of identifying myself as transgender and started putting that together with my fantasy life, I had a hard time with the sex angle. I'm sure that graduate school had a dampening effect on my sex drive, but so did this other stuff, in spades. That's sorta similar to where you're coming from...sorta.
Now I feel as if I've got my mojo back--no, it's more like a mojo that I've never even had before. Feels great! And I hope it gets even better once I get over some of the last remaining hurdles.
It's possible for some transguys to be okay with front-door sex, but I can completely see why it's kinda foreign to you. It's possible that if you'd been in a situation similar to mine, that would be different. But there's no way to know, and I certainly don't recommend that you force yourself to experience it. "A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do." In your case, maybe it's more like you've gotta NOT do what you don't want to do.
Despite all of the obstacles that you're facing, I consider you fortunate to be figuring out all of this stuff so early in your life. My life is what it is, and I have to live with the choices that I've made and the resources that were available to me. Don't get me wrong; I have a lot of great life experience, and I have had some adventures. But sometimes I envy you younger guys a little bit. Usually, though, I'm just glad that you don't have to live in the world that I came from.
I just talked to a therapist at my college(so its free which is great), and she actually knows the doctor that will do the hysterectomy. And shes cool, but at first when I saw her I was nervous, because of her apperance, she looked so uptight and rightoues. But around the end of our session, she said she was suited to be my therapist because she is very infomed in glbt issues, and she was a lesbian( which was really suprising) But as first time experience, I love therapy. I get to talk about my ideals and philosophy and someone HAS to sit there and listen. Its great. And she said shell write a letter down the road cause she wants to get to know me(she must like my great thoughts...)
And...um...since you guys were talkin about vaginal sex, maybe I felt this way from a young age, but I could never understand how or why people would ever want to do that. I mean I always wondered why straight women would want to even have sex. I used to ask my mom all the time how the hell did she enjoy that, and she would answer with randomness, so then I would ask "how bout you just shoot yourself in the arm, and put your finger in it. According to you, that feels good.." Man, I was a disresptful kid...
Quote from: Jack Daniels on August 27, 2008, 01:39:17 AM
I just talked to a therapist at my college(so its free which is great), and she actually knows the doctor that will do the hysterectomy. And shes cool, but at first when I saw her I was nervous, because of her apperance, she looked so uptight and rightoues. But around the end of our session, she said she was suited to be my therapist because she is very infomed in glbt issues, and she was a lesbian( which was really suprising) But as first time experience, I love therapy. I get to talk about my ideals and philosophy and someone HAS to sit there and listen. Its great. And she said shell write a letter down the road cause she wants to get to know me(she must like my great thoughts...)
And...um...since you guys were talkin about vaginal sex, maybe I felt this way from a young age, but I could never understand how or why people would ever want to do that. I mean I always wondered why straight women would want to even have sex. I used to ask my mom all the time how the hell did she enjoy that, and she would answer with randomness, so then I would ask "how bout you just shoot yourself in the arm, and put your finger in it. According to you, that feels good.." Man, I was a disresptful kid...
Great news on the therapist, Jack. I'm still getting used to talking...sometimes I talk freely, sometimes I grope around and stammer. Which is very annoying, because normally I don't have a stammer, and normally I'm quite articulate. And I don't like to come across as scared...but that's my own hangup, nothing to do with my therapist, who is awesome.
Re your second paragraph, I always used to wonder what men saw in women--in fact, I sometimes still do. This view made it rather difficult for me to like myself and have any kind of self-confidence because I was female-bodied. What could anybody possibly see in ME?
Funny you could talk about anything sexual with your mum. Sex was not a topic of discussion in my parents' house. Ever.
So youre parents were those types of parents... but werent you sexually active? I never was so I talked about sex alot and made fun of girls who enjoyed sex(which now I realize is kind of sexist), and I would make fun of my mom on a daily basis. She just kept saying "youll understand one day", but now Im an adult and I still dont understand how in the hell people enjoy that? But you wonder whats good about a females' body?
Quote from: Jack Daniels on August 27, 2008, 02:49:08 PM
So youre parents were those types of parents... but werent you sexually active?
I had my first real sexual experience when I was eighteen. And a half. I was in college. I was still living at home at the time--didn't leave until I turned twenty-one. (Looking back, I don't know how I lasted that long. In fact, I almost didn't. Boy, was I a mess.)
The only kind of sexual relationship that seems COMPLETELY natural and comfortable to me has always been one between two men. It was weird and terribly confusing growing up both trans and gay/queer.
Anyway, yeah, I was brought up in an incredibly prudish household where sex was NEVER discussed or even alluded to. It was quite horrible. But in a way I'm rather grateful. The thought of my mother--MY mother--being open about much of anything, especially sex, is really revolting. Frankly, it would have been awful any other way.
I prefer to think of my mother as some kind of gruesome spectre who haunts my past, but I wish she would bloody well stay there. I thought I was well rid of her until this summer, when (after coming out) I couldn't help mentally reviewing and completely reinterpreting my entire past. Now she pops up in my head and won't always go away. I don't want to talk about her, I don't want to think about her...she doesn't belong there.
I hope my therapist can help me to get rid of her, because I don't seem to be able to do it on my own.
You re parents were super conservative, were'nt they? Mine are conservative democracts, so they were nt so prudish, but hey, you said it was good since you did nt have to imiagine your mom havin sex. Though, I have a weird obession with my mom, I used to listen to them..., but I ll never forget the time I actually walked in on them...Horrible...so so horrible...It kind of scrwed me mentally. Although, I do find my mom attractive, its still somethin that should nt have happened. Ha, this reminds me of all that freud phsychology stuff.
Not to bring your mom up again since you dislike her, but have you completey servered all ties with her?
Quote from: Jack Daniels on August 27, 2008, 05:42:13 PM
Not to bring your mom up again since you dislike her, but have you completey servered all ties with her?
Ohhh, yeaaaah. Long time ago. Sayonara, baby. Whole damn family.
Quote from: Arch on August 18, 2008, 01:18:46 AM
I hate standing in the waiting room with my stomach churning. This is my fourth appt. tomorrow. I thought I would be calmer by now, but I still have the pre-appt. jitters, in spades, a full twelve hours before I have to go in. And it just gets worse from there.
I feel really stupid, embarrassed, chicken. If I don't watch out, I'll start worrying about THAT and won't be able to make any progress. Talk about adding a complex to an existing complex...
Have you ever tried preparing for therapy, like writing down what you need or want to talk about, or even things you don't feel comfortable saying out loud-and give the notes to your therapist if need be?
It doesn't always if ever truly kill the anxiety nasties, but sometimes helps a little. ???
Quote from: Lee on August 27, 2008, 11:12:38 PM
Have you ever tried preparing for therapy, like writing down what you need or want to talk about, or even things you don't feel comfortable saying out loud-and give the notes to your therapist if need be?
It doesn't always if ever truly kill the anxiety nasties, but sometimes helps a little. ???
Yeah, and if you feel awkward about handing your therapist a note instead of talking, you could say "I had a few thoughts earlier that I decided to write down for you" and show her the note. You can go over it together and discuss any key points you have.
It's to-the-point, and having your thoughts down in writing is a lot easier than having to remember details when you're already feeling a little anxious about being there.
Quote from: Lee on August 27, 2008, 11:12:38 PM
Have you ever tried preparing for therapy, like writing down what you need or want to talk about, or even things you don't feel comfortable saying out loud-and give the notes to your therapist if need be?
It doesn't always if ever truly kill the anxiety nasties, but sometimes helps a little. ???
Well, I did write something up and bring it to the second session, for him to read later. It was all about my family and my previous experiences with therapy. Not quite the same thing.
I was finally able to start a journal again, but that's not quite the same thing, either. That resource is for me. Truly, if he read it, he would probably think I was crackers, esp. the last couple of entries, haha.
So...I've never seriously considered doing what you suggested, no. I'll have to think about it. Maybe it would keep me from straying into territory that really bothers me.
I know that's not what you had in mind, but last session I wound up talking about my parents a little bit, and I wasn't expecting that. I'm not sure how I got there...I was very uncomfortable. If I wrote some stuff beforehand about stuff I feel safer with, maybe it would give me a sense that I have greater control?
Heh. Once again I'm thinking in terms of avoidance. Not good.
I dunno. I'll think about it.
Posted on: August 27, 2008, 11:29:42 PM
Quote from: Lindsey on August 27, 2008, 11:19:06 PM
Yeah, and if you feel awkward about handing your therapist a note instead of talking, you could say "I had a few thoughts earlier that I decided to write down for you" and show her the note. You can go over it together and discuss any key points you have.
It's to-the-point, and having your thoughts down in writing is a lot easier than having to remember details when you're already feeling a little anxious about being there.
Well, this is a slightly different way of looking at it.
God, I don't know. I thought about this for a few minutes and realized that I tend to think of writing things down this way as a copout--not for other people, but for me. I don't know why. Isn't that goofy?
Not a copout if the writing actually gets you on track w/ talking about what you need to be talking about.
Quote from: Arch on August 27, 2008, 11:35:24 PM
God, I don't know. I thought about this for a few minutes and realized that I tend to think of writing things down this way as a copout--not for other people, but for me. I don't know why. Isn't that goofy?
It isn't a copout, it's just a different way to communicate. I communicate better through writing. You communicate pretty well through writing too, from what I see. I can't communicate anything but silliness in person anymore, and that won't help me when I get to the therapist's office. And my theory is that once you've broken the ice with those key issues, whether by speaking or writing, it will get easier to communicate with your therapist.
Quote from: Arch on August 27, 2008, 11:35:24 PM
If I wrote some stuff beforehand about stuff I feel safer with, maybe it would give me a sense that I have greater control?
I know that was directed toward Lee, but that's exactly what I was thinking when I posted a little earlier. If you've got outlines written down already, you know where the situation's going, and you won't stray from your key issues easily.
What I mean is the writing isn't a replacement, just a spring-board for your thoughts an stuff.
Quote from: Lee on August 27, 2008, 11:43:03 PM
What I mean is the writing isn't a replacement, just a spring-board for your thoughts an stuff.
Yeah, I see.
My anxiety definitely gets in the way--I tend to feel sorta paralyzed. Awkward. On the spot.
It helps me if I can work off my excess energy beforehand. I either exercise or pace. Before my last appointment, I was pacing like mad in the living room when my partner came back from work early because he didn't feel well. I can't pace when he's around, so that was that.
It was a Monday. That morning, I was so glad the weekend was over and my partner was going to work. When he came home, I was royally pissed (I know, he couldn't help it) and went to my appointment frustrated and angry. God, it was so hard to say anything. I was just so mad. I was planning to be relatively relaxed and ready to get some real work done.
My composure is very tenuous these days. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.
I trust my therapist now. I really do. But I'm still scared. Why is that? Does that make sense? I'm such a coward...
Quote from: Arch on August 28, 2008, 12:07:03 AM
I trust my therapist now. I really do. But I'm still scared. Why is that? Does that make sense? I'm such a coward...
It does make sense, and you're not a coward. Basically, if your ultimate goal is the OK to start hormones, you're spending money to sit in a room for a 50 minute long hour spilling your guts out to someone basically unknown to you who is in control of your destiny. It's ok to be tense about therapy, especially in the beginning.
Quote from: Mister on August 28, 2008, 12:24:28 AM
It does make sense, and you're not a coward. Basically, if your ultimate goal is the OK to start hormones, you're spending money to sit in a room for a 50 minute long hour spilling your guts out to someone basically unknown to you who is in control of your destiny. It's ok to be tense about therapy, especially in the beginning.
Well, I think that my ultimate goal is to get the okay for transition, but actually my first goal is just to figure myself out and find out for sure if I want transition. I've been suppressing so long and have lived so long as a female that I'm not one hundred percent sure what I want.
I don't see my therapist as a gatekeeper. He's helped me a lot so far, but we've hardly even talked about gender issues. I wouldn't know where to start. This I will have to ask him, if I ever get to that point and still feel clueless. It had better be soon, but I guess I have so much baggage and so much old business that's come back to plague me that I'm a little overwhelmed at the moment.
Still feel like a chicken, though, and still kick myself for it. And I keep thinking that if I feel safe with this man, then I shouldn't be scared. I do feel safe. And I do feel scared. Seems like a paradox, but I guess I'm really just scared of what kind of junk I'll turn up. I'm scared of eventually having to make a decision. Scared of the unknown. Scared that my partner will leave me if I do transition.
I'm just scared, period. But heck, even if I really AM a coward, who wouldn't be scared under these circumstances? Maybe they'd be nuts not to be.
I didn't mean to infer that he was a gatekeeper. Not my thought, not my intention. Apologies if it wasn't clear.
Not saying you need to jump through hoops to impress the guy, but it's still nerve wracking to know that any progression is up to him at this point, unless you were to switch therapists. Your post leads me to an interesting train of thought, but it's probably a new thread altogether. Seems a lot of folks in here are in therapy to figure themselves out, whereas I went in having figured myself out and ready to transition (i mean this in the medical sense, not the social sense- that had already happened.)
Quote from: Mister on August 28, 2008, 01:21:55 AM
I didn't mean to infer that he was a gatekeeper. Not my thought, not my intention. Apologies if it wasn't clear.
No prob.
Quote from: Mister on August 28, 2008, 01:21:55 AM
Not saying you need to jump through hoops to impress the guy, but it's still nerve wracking to know that any progression is up to him at this point, unless you were to switch therapists.
Definitely nerve-wracking. He doesn't question that I'm transgender, but I'm not altogether clear on what I have to do to get the green light to move forward with transition. I've had too many trust issues up till now to even think about that. Now that I'm getting used to the sessions and feel pretty safe--it happened way faster than I expected, so that's a plus--maybe I should start thinking about writing down some questions about how the process works. But I still want to take this slowly. I have to navigate around a number of life issues and obstacles before I can seriously consider going forward with transition.
Quote from: Mister on August 28, 2008, 01:21:55 AM
Your post leads me to an interesting train of thought, but it's probably a new thread altogether. Seems a lot of folks in here are in therapy to figure themselves out, whereas I went in having figured myself out and ready to transition (i mean this in the medical sense, not the social sense- that had already happened.)
You may be right about some of the other guys here, but I think quite a few are pretty sure of what they want and don't really need much therapy to figure that out. You should start a thread on that topic--it would be interesting to see how many guys have achieved a high degree of certitude without lying on the couch!
Do your previous posts talk about how you arrived at that point? I'm curious as to how you achieved it--unless it wasn't a tough call at all. It isn't, for some.
Posted on: August 28, 2008, 02:21:53 AM
Quote from: Jack Daniels on August 27, 2008, 05:42:13 PM
You re parents were super conservative, were'nt they?
Yeah, my parents were (and, no doubt, still are) conservative Republicans. They voted for Nixon, they voted for Reagan...and the last time I knew her, my mother was some variety of born-again Christian with fairly fundamentalist views. Oddly enough, they didn't really indoctrinate us kids. After giving us some churchgoing experience, they left it up to us to decide whether we wanted to continue. I think that this freedom was mostly a compromise that my parents arrived at between themselves--my father seemed relaxed about religion, so I think he made her back off. Anyway, I've had skeptical leanings since I was five, so quitting church was a no-brainer.
Occasionally, my mother regretted allowing us such latitude. Every once in a while, she would go through a half-hearted conversion cycle and try to get me some religion. It didn't take, of course.
Whatever I may think of my parents, I have to give them credit for certain things. They taught me the value of a dollar, they brought me up with a solid work ethic, they took me all around the world, and (barring the odd slip-up) they allowed me to make my own decisions about religion. It wasn't all bad.