Ever since I've started identifying as androgyne, I've been pretty happy with calling myself that, even if I've never actually done it in real life (I only do it on susan's or forums where this kind of discussion comes up, or if I'm talking with someone personally about it).
But lately I've been feeling the intense need to fit in. I lurk in the FtM boards sometimes and post there on occasion but I still feel like I don't fit in there at all despite my having some of the same wants as they do. I know for certain that I would not fit in on the MtF boards due to my often dislike for being female or being associated with being female.
But it's come up more than once in discussions, shouldn't it be easier for androgynes to fit in with most everyone, just because of our unique-ish view on things? Or maybe I took whatever was said on this subject out of context, I'm not sure.
Despite you other androgynes liking who you are and what you identify as, do you ever feel like you have a hard time fitting in with others, whether other TGs or cisgender folks?
I'm just feeling kind of down lately :( Wanted to know what everyone else thought about this. :-\
I don't even pretend to fit in with cisgendered folk. I get along with them and they don't know anything about me unless I say something, but I don't really fit in.
I think I know how you feel. I think I feel closer to FtM's, but there is a point where I am left behind. Same with MtF's. I guess there's a little overlap with the binary people, but it only goes so far.
There is some kind of loneliness built into us due to our position within the spectrum. I wish I could maybe go out and seek others, but I can't leave here.
Yes, not fitting in has been a problem all of my life and it finally led to me searching on this wonderful interweb thingy and figuring out that i'm androgyne. Or something similar to it.
Which didn't bring a lot of relief, but did bring some understanding. The light came on.
I'm still struggling with trying to figure out how to fit into my world as I now understand myself, and to some degree trying to understand myself more. It doesn't appear to be an easy path. Even though I seem to have an answer, it doesn't seem to fix anything. For me this androgyne thing seems to have a lot of dimensions and dark, unanswered questions. Heck, I may be a MTF in denial. I dunno yet. And am not for sure I want to know in a way. Life is complicated :laugh:
I hope you have some success with figuring yourself out. I'm not doing so good here.
Rebis - I wish I could go out in search of others too, but like yourself, I cannot leave.
riven - Androgynes are no more better or special than anyone else, but lately it seems like the more I think about it, things just seem a little more challenging for them than others..or perhaps I'm placing too much self-importance on it. We all have our unique set of challenges, of course.
If you are an MtF or an FtM though, what you want to accomplish is clear and plain in your sight because of the biological gender binary. However it's less clear cut for us androgynes for many reasons. I'm sure that a lot of FtMs and MtFs are not fond of the social gender binary, but one they transition or at least start to pass, things become easier for them, sometimes.
For those of us in between though...there is still a time that has to come for acceptance of other-gendered folks; society is still pretty new to having FtMs and MtFs so out there and making it so people understand they deserve respect as well.
Quote from: Phate on September 13, 2008, 08:05:15 PM
Despite you other androgynes liking who you are and what you identify as, do you ever feel like you have a hard time fitting in with others, whether other TGs or cisgender folks?
Constantly. It's easy to
almost fit in, but pretty much impossible to get all the way there: there's always this nagging feeling that I'm not really like these others. It's not just about gender either, but also other aspects of my life (for instance, I have a degree in two very different fields and can communicate with scientists in either of them, but when doing so tend to identify with the 'wrong' one). I've pretty much convinced myself that this lack of firm identity is at the core of my identity. ;)
Lately I've come to think that I'm androgyne mostly because I cannot really imagine how it would feel to be cisgendered. It's only recently that it finally dawned on me that such people do in fact exist -- that it is possible for one's mind and body to match, instead of just having an easier time to deal with various levels of mismatch. And since I cannot comprehend a life without this mismatch I also cannot really desire it, or in other words fit in with the transsexuals who do have this as their goal. I suppose that makes me MtF in need of directions. GPS, anyone? :)
Nfr
Quote from: Phate on September 13, 2008, 08:05:15 PM
Despite you other androgynes liking who you are and what you identify as, do you ever feel like you have a hard time fitting in with others, whether other TGs or cisgender folks?
Back when I identified as non-op TS, I seemed to have more respect and understanding. As soon as I corrected that identification to Genderqueer then Androgyne to be more accurate, I honestly entered into a scary realm. The things talked about mostly made sense and fit me, whereas only some fit in the non-op TS label. Being identified with a group that has no infrastructure itself though liberating, kinda left me on my own, whereas I had hands held out and holding me in the prior identification.
I think the 50+ years TS establishment history, especially since the 70s, is good for that gender identification. Crossdressers have been organized for years. Androgynes only have what looks like less then a decade of even common awareness (not to even mention organization), because of the rarity I assume.
Yes I have felt alone many times, and left out of the other TG or cisgendered groups. It hurts sometimes, and sometimes just makes me mad.
Kendall
I've never really fit in anywhere. I've felt this way since I was a kid. As an artist I live outside the norms where most people live. At 52 years old, I'm pretty used to this, and don't have a need to belong, but sometimes it gets lonely out here in the wilderness.
I also feel that way as a transgender/androgyne person. I've gone back and forth between being non-op m2f and androgyne. I really don't fit in with either definition. I've been male and female. I'm not either gender, however female generally feels slightly more right than male.
None of this really matters, what's important is finding gender expression/identity that is right for me. If it doesn't fit anyone's requirements or expectations, so be it. If my feelings about it changes from day to day, as it seems to, so be it. It's an interesting gift.
Zythyra
I feel disconected. I feel just as lost as I did when I was 5 and wishing I could play with the girls and wondering why all the boys liked playing ball sports. I think about it alot, I want to be with my own people sometimes. I feel lonely fairly regularly. I feel like I am rotting in my own little bubble.
In a group of people I end up switching topics to directions people find odd, so more often than not I end up sitting quietly. Yet I know that I am not an introverted person, I love to be the centre of attention.
I didn't think that I was the only one who felt like I didn't fit in, but I wanted to ask anyways.
Zythyra, you are right when you say that what really matters is finding yourself and a gender expression/identity that fits you. That is the most important of all is being comfortable with yourself, that I can wholly agree with.
I'm not an extremely sociable person and much prefer being alone or with a small group of close friends, but sometimes the urge to want to fit in and feel like you belong is hard to ignore.
Thanks for everyone who has replied so far; it has lifted my mood quite a lot :)
i'm new here at Susan's Place,
I came to realize that I've been Androgyne all my life even borned a androgyne. From day to day to months to years I have lived with this and now I know what I am , going from male to being feminine and back to male not havn't any control
over it.....I never know when it will happen that is why i'm along a lot.....I used to think it was the women
I was around doing it to me or playing some kind of a game on me....I have been married and had g/f's...I have a brother and was bad about doing ever thing he would do .I know he is only male (xy)..
(what about fetishes are they taboo for androgynes like BDSM domme /or dom's)
I found these diagrams of sex and gender .....somewhere on the links at the Androgne site.
Diagram of Sex and Gender
BIOLOGICAL SEX
(anatomy, chromosomes, hormones)
male ------------------------------------- intersex --------------------------------- female
GENDER IDENTITY
(psychological sense of self)
man -------------------------------- two spirit/third gender ------------------------ woman
GENDER EXPRESSION
(communication of gender)
masculine ------------------------------ androgynous ----------------------------- feminine
SEXUAL ORIENTATION
(romantic/erotic response)
attracted to women ------------------ bisexual/asexual --------------------- attracted to men
Biological sex, shown on the top scale, includes external genitalia, internal reproductive structures, chromosomes, hormone levels, and secondary sex characteristics such as breasts, facial and body hair, and fat distribution. These characteristics are objective in that they can be seen and measured (with appropriate technology). The scale consists not just of two categories (male and female) but is actually a continuum, with most people existing somewhere near one end or the other. The space more in the middle is occupied by intersex people (formerly, hermaphrodites), who have combinations of characteristics typical of males and those typical of females, such as both a testis and an ovary, or XY chromosomes (the usual male pattern) and a vagina, or they may have features that are not completely male or completely female, such as an organ that could be thought of as a small penis or a large clitoris, or an XXY chromosomal pattern.
Gender identity is how people think of themselves and identify in terms of sex (man, woman, boy, girl). Gender identity is a psychological quality; unlike biological sex, it can't be observed or measured (at least by current means), only reported by the individual. Like biological sex, it consists of more than two categories, and there's space in the middle for those who identify as a third gender, both (two-spirit), or neither. We lack language for this intermediate position because everyone in our culture is supposed to identify unequivocally with one of the two extreme categories. In fact, many people feel that they have masculine and feminine aspects of their psyches, and some people, fearing that they do, seek to purge themselves of one or the other by acting in exaggerated sex-stereotyped ways.
Gender expression is everything we do that communicates our sex/gender to others: clothing, hair styles, mannerisms, way of speaking, roles we take in interactions, etc. This communication may be purposeful or accidental. It could also be called social gender because it relates to interactions between people. Trappings of one gender or the other may be forced on us as children or by dress codes at school or work. Gender expression is a continuum, with feminine at one end and masculine at the other. In between are gender expressions that are androgynous (neither masculine nor feminine) and those that combine elements of the two (sometimes called gender bending). Gender expression can vary for an individual from day to day or in different situations, but most people can identify a range on the scale where they feel the most comfortable. Some people are comfortable with a wider range of gender expression than others.
Sexual orientation indicates who we are erotically attracted to. The ends of this scale are labeled "attracted to women" and "attracted to men," rather than "homosexual" and "heterosexual," to avoid confusion as we discuss the concepts of sex and gender. In the mid-range is bisexuality; there are also people who are asexual (attracted to neither men nor women). We tend to think of most people as falling into one of the two extreme categories (attracted to women or attracted to men), whether they are straight or gay, with only a small minority clustering around the bisexual middle. However, Kinsey's studies showed that most people are in fact not at one extreme of this continuum or the other, but occupy some position between.
For each scale, the popular notion that there are two distinct categories, with everyone falling neatly into one or the other, is a social construction. The real world (Nature, if you will) does not observe these boundaries. If we look at what actually exists, we see that there is middle ground. To be sure, most people fall near one end of the scale or the other, but very few people are actually at the extreme ends, and there are people at every point along the continuum.
Gender identity and sexual orientation are resistant to change. Although we don't yet have definitive answers to whether these are the result of biological influences, psychological ones, or both, we do know that they are established very early in life, possibly prenatally, and there are no methods that have been proven effective for changing either of these. Some factors that make up biological sex can be changed, with more or less difficulty. These changes are not limited to people who change their sex: many women undergo breast enlargement, which moves them toward the extreme female end of the scale, and men have penile enlargements to enhance their maleness, for example. Gender expression is quite flexible for some people and more rigid for others. Most people feel strongly about expressing themselves in a way that's consistent with their inner gender identity and experience discomfort when they're not allowed to do so.
The four scales are independent. Our cultural expectation is that men occupy the extreme left ends of all four scales (male, man, masculine, attracted to women) and women occupy the right ends. But a person with male anatomy could be attracted to men (gay man), or could have a gender identity of "woman" (transsexual), or could have a feminine gender expression on occasion (crossdresser). A person with female anatomy could identify as a woman, have a somewhat masculine gender expression, and be attracted to women (butch lesbian). It's a mix-and-match world, and there are as many combinations as there are people who think about their gender.
This schema is not necessarily "reality," but it's probably closer than the two-box system. Reality is undoubtedly more complex. Each of the four scales could be broken out into several scales. For instance, the sex scale could be expanded into separate scales for external genitalia, internal reproductive organs, hormone levels, chromosome patterns, and so forth. An individual would probably not fall on the same place on each of these. "Biological sex" is a summary of scores for several variables.
There are conditions that exist that don't fit anywhere on a continuum: some people have neither the XX (typical female) chromosomal pattern nor the XY pattern typical of males, but it is not clear that other patterns, such as just X, belong anywhere on the scale between XX and XY. Furthermore, the scales may not be entirely separate: if gender identity and sexual orientation are found to have a biological component, they may overlap with the biological sex scale.
Using the model presented here is something like using a spectrum of colors to view the world, instead of only black and white. It doesn't fully account for all the complex shadings that exist, but it gives us a richer, more interesting picture. Why look at the world in black and white (marred by a few troublesome shades of gray) when there's a whole rainbow out there?
Return to the Center for Gender Sanity Home Page.
This page last updated Thursday, 16-Aug-01 04:25:57 EDT.
www.gendersanity.com/diagram.shtml (http://www.gendersanity.com/diagram.shtml)
Hello, Phate.
Truth to be told, I have always perceived myself as a stranger of a certain kind, a wanderer from some remote land, even an alien from the outer space... So, you see, I feel lonely most of the time, as if I am beyond any schemes, any boundaries.
At the same time, I think that the notions 'gay', 'lesbian', 'MtF', 'FtM', 'androgyn' and many others are labels that cannot show the real essence of a particular human being. I hate carrying a label on me, and I do not really care about my social image. Why should you care about yours? You are a unique person, and that is the only thing that matters.
Sometimes I dream about waking up as a normal man. Sometimes I hate my strikingly female body. Sometimes I am just happy to be who I am. Maybe, I am a gay man hiding out in a woman's body. But if it is true, does it make a real change?..
Quote from: Phate on September 13, 2008, 08:05:15 PM
Ever since I've started identifying as androgyne, I've been pretty happy with calling myself that, even if I've never actually done it in real life (I only do it on susan's or forums where this kind of discussion comes up, or if I'm talking with someone personally about it).
But lately I've been feeling the intense need to fit in. I lurk in the FtM boards sometimes and post there on occasion but I still feel like I don't fit in there at all despite my having some of the same wants as they do. I know for certain that I would not fit in on the MtF boards due to my often dislike for being female or being associated with being female.
But it's come up more than once in discussions, shouldn't it be easier for androgynes to fit in with most everyone, just because of our unique-ish view on things? Or maybe I took whatever was said on this subject out of context, I'm not sure.
Despite you other androgynes liking who you are and what you identify as, do you ever feel like you have a hard time fitting in with others, whether other TGs or cisgender folks?
I'm just feeling kind of down lately :( Wanted to know what everyone else thought about this. :-\
Hi Rosann (and Phate and others),
Thanks for the detailed explanation you found. One thing I would add is that #2, #3 and #4 are not stuck in place as #1 is (except for surgical intervention). That is, our identities are not static, they are dynamic, always changing, sometimes in large ways and at other times, just around the edges.
The last three can change and in almost everyone they do to some extent. I think this is true for non-trans people as well. They can change during a person's lifetime, during a single year, a month, a week, a day, an hour and even on a minute by minute basis. It all depends on what's happening in your life at the time and what has happened previously in your life up to that moment - to make you one type of person or another, emotionally, at any given moment.
I think one problem I see often in T forums is the expectation that we each occupy just one specific identity - when in reality that person we are constantly changes throughout our lives. That makes it hard for someone who feels adrift in a hostile world to grab onto something - a life raft in a stormy ocean - and some of us want desperately to find that life raft. But I do think some of us grab on to the first floating refuge that comes by and then we become unhappy and depressed when that category that we thought held all the answers to our happiness doesn't work out too well. But that's the price we pay for being humans and not just one section or another in the DSM (The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.)
The main problem though IMO isn't just the ephemeral nature of our gender identity - it's that all these things we label as identities are really cultural narratives - intellectually describable categories that are recognized by our particular culture or subculture. Our minds are always searching cognitively for ways to improve our survival chances - and so we see those as the only life rafts available - even if none of them fit out emotional reality very well.
And it's that emotional reality that ultimately must find a happy home somewhere, if we expect personal happiness in this life, that is. For most people in the world the odds are pretty slim. We fortunately live in a culture that is somewhat used to us gender and sexual outlaws defining our own categories. I say take advantage. Ride whatever raft feels right at the time but don't expect that it will always feel that way. There are plenty of rafts out there and if you don't like any of them and you're the adventurous type, make your own. You'll probably find some of us who'd like to share it with you, at least for a while.
Cheers, Margi 8)
I definitely have a hard time fitting in completely. Like Nfr said, it's easy to almost fit in. I always get really hopeful when I feel like I'm getting close to fitting in with someone and then someone will say something that just reminds me that there's still a huge distance between what I am and what they are. But I'm learning to live with that. :) It still gets lonely sometimes though.
Quote from: Zythyra on September 14, 2008, 02:35:33 PM
It's an interesting gift.
Zythyra
Interesting indeed. And it's most definitely a gift. :icon_yes:
Quote from: Margaret Ann on September 17, 2008, 03:43:00 PM
I think one problem I see often in T forums is the expectation that we each occupy just one specific identity - when in reality that person we are constantly changes throughout our lives.
(clippity clip)
Quote
The main problem though IMO isn't just the ephemeral nature of our gender identity - it's that all these things we label as identities are really cultural narratives - intellectually describable categories that are recognized by our particular culture or subculture.
Yes. Yes, indeed. Then again, not quite. :)
That is, I agree wholeheartedly that one of the issues here is that people take this 'identity never changes' stance much too far. Identity -- in the sense of our conscious mental view of ourselves -- does change over time, and sometimes pretty radically. On the other hand, it's also very easy to see how that argument can be used to deny treatment to people who really need it, or to justify things like 'reparative' 'therapy'. It's much easier to address these arguments with a counter-claim about identity being innate and constant than by going in deeper than that.
The thing both sides ignore is that while the conscious identity changes it is nevertheless grounded in something that
is innate and constant. For instance, while I have at various stages of my life thought of myself as male, female and something else, looking back it's also easy to see that these identities are all attempts to describe the same person: my feelings (about how my body feels vs. how it should feel) are essentially what they were in primary school, what has changed is my interpretation of them in relation to the culture I live in.
Looking in and back, the way my conscious identity has developed in relation to what's underneath it fits very well with the claim that GID is related to brain physiology or something similar. It can't be made to go away, but the social implications are open to some degree of re-interpretation. This also fits with the way the observed prevalence varies from one place and time to another.
Nfr
Soory to intrude, it won't be a long one. You guys just totally rock! I love the way you actually come to this search for yourself. I actually believe that more FTMs and MTFs should do so.
Yes, too deep a delve may be its own problem. We often over-think things, but the real problem I have seen is that we (human beings, especially MTFs) seldom have that over-thinking problem. More the reverse where we simply go for hormones and surgeries and thinking, self-discovery, is left behind in the interest of "fitting an exterior pre-determined form."
You guys don't do that so much, perhaps due to that "lack of formal organization" and I find that just totally fresh-air.
I'm sorry for your lonliness, but wanted each of you to know that I have this amazingly deep respect for all of you, although I prolly know Rebis, Zythyra, Jaimey and Nfr much better than the rest of you.
As a group you guys inspire me. You go places other groups here fear to tread and I have a deep admiration for that. Thank you all.
Nichole
Quote from: Seshatneferw on September 18, 2008, 04:08:46 AM
Quote from: Margaret Ann on September 17, 2008, 03:43:00 PM
I think one problem I see often in T forums is the expectation that we each occupy just one specific identity - when in reality that person we are constantly changes throughout our lives.
(clippity clip)
Quote
The main problem though IMO isn't just the ephemeral nature of our gender identity - it's that all these things we label as identities are really cultural narratives - intellectually describable categories that are recognized by our particular culture or subculture.
Yes. Yes, indeed. Then again, not quite. :)
That is, I agree wholeheartedly that one of the issues here is that people take this 'identity never changes' stance much too far. Identity -- in the sense of our conscious mental view of ourselves -- does change over time, and sometimes pretty radically. On the other hand, it's also very easy to see how that argument can be used to deny treatment to people who really need it, or to justify things like 'reparative' 'therapy'. It's much easier to address these arguments with a counter-claim about identity being innate and constant than by going in deeper than that.
The thing both sides ignore is that while the conscious identity changes it is nevertheless grounded in something that is innate and constant. For instance, while I have at various stages of my life thought of myself as male, female and something else, looking back it's also easy to see that these identities are all attempts to describe the same person: my feelings (about how my body feels vs. how it should feel) are essentially what they were in primary school, what has changed is my interpretation of them in relation to the culture I live in.
Looking in and back, the way my conscious identity has developed in relation to what's underneath it fits very well with the claim that GID is related to brain physiology or something similar. It can't be made to go away, but the social implications are open to some degree of re-interpretation. This also fits with the way the observed prevalence varies from one place and time to another.
Nfr
Yes, yes, yes. Thanks so much for emphasizing the constancy of that underlying emotional reality. In me it's always been there for as long as I can remember and it always finds expression in some form of "I am a woman". I am almost certain the same is true for every trans-woman I have known.
It is the categories our culture allows us to occupy that change - how society sees us and how society allows us to see ourselves. Prior to the sixties, any man who desired to dress and be seen by others as a woman was simply categorized as a homosexual. I often wonder what that was like for the large number who probably preferred women sexually. I'm sure very many of them took on a homosexual lifestyle anyway - because that's all that was open to them. That's a good example of the tremendous power that culture has over us by defining our identities - by offering us a limited number of boxes that we can choose from if we wish to be accepted as part of that culture - no matter how demeaning or ill-fitting the box they give us.
Fortunately, activism is a popular remedy these days and many of us are fighting to establish social identity categories that accurately reflect our emotional reality and not social prejudice - and demanding recognition from society. Here's to the good fight.
Margi :icon_pistoles:
Quote from: Nichole on September 18, 2008, 08:37:08 AM
Soory to intrude, it won't be a long one. You guys just totally rock! I love the way you actually come to this search for yourself. I actually believe that more FTMs and MTFs should do so.
Yes, too deep a delve may be its own problem. We often over-think things, but the real problem I have seen is that we (human beings, especially MTFs) seldom have that over-thinking problem. More the reverse where we simply go for hormones and surgeries and thinking, self-discovery, is left behind in the interest of "fitting an exterior pre-determined form."
You guys don't do that so much, perhaps due to that "lack of formal organization" and I find that just totally fresh-air.
I'm sorry for your lonliness, but wanted each of you to know that I have this amazingly deep respect for all of you, although I prolly know Rebis, Zythyra, Jaimey and Nfr much better than the rest of you.
As a group you guys inspire me. You go places other groups here fear to tread and I have a deep admiration for that. Thank you all.
Nichole
:icon_love: Aw...You're pretty awesome yourself, Nichole!!! *hugs*
I didn't expect so many replies, thanks again! You don't know how much this has lifted my mood after reading each new post.
It's helped me realize that while fitting in can be comforting and it's something that most people will naturally strive for...as someone else said, it can be considered a gift when you are so different from the norm.
Quote from: Nichole on September 18, 2008, 08:37:08 AM
As a group you guys inspire me. You go places other groups here fear to tread and I have a deep admiration for that. Thank you all.
Nichole
Thanks. Maybe someday somebody will build statues of us (wondering who we are). :laugh:
Quote from: Rebis on September 19, 2008, 07:30:40 AM
Quote from: Nichole on September 18, 2008, 08:37:08 AM
As a group you guys inspire me. You go places other groups here fear to tread and I have a deep admiration for that. Thank you all.
Nichole
Thanks. Maybe someday somebody will build statues of us (wondering who we are). :laugh:
Do we get action figures too? A rebis action figure would pwn hardcore. :D
Quote from: Nichole on September 18, 2008, 08:37:08 AM
As a group you guys inspire me. You go places other groups here fear to tread and I have a deep admiration for that. Thank you all.
Thanks Nichole!
Z
Hi
Bit late on this one, but hey.
I've just returned from a family wedding in spain, and i didn't even fit in there. My extended family being very male and very female - wholly ensconced in these cisgender roles. Even the speeches included references to 'us men' and 'you women'. Now of course I fit in with my immiedate family, I created a hole for to fit into as i grew up.
i don't fit in with most people, and i read mtf boards without much comprehension. most mtfs are alien to me, creating problems where i see none - 'oh my arm carry angle is slightly wrong' and stuff. Though of course there are some i like very much.
i never fit in at university or atr school or at work....
i have fit in at the places where the room is made for me, mixed groups where the female is greater than the male and there is some primary task in hand. Like theatres and writing groups. And sometimes i have suspected, with undiognosed androgynes.
Let us continue fighting the good fight - organising a bit and somehow making those statues worth something.
I've been concerned about my toe carrying angle....
Quote from: Rebis on September 22, 2008, 07:40:53 AM
I've been concerned about my toe carrying angle....
It does look mighty odd.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3ALo-EhnuJad25XM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fi217.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2F&hash=3ae4b5b62defb0ecec6b7f4b9a36c5cbf20d21b5)
eeeguh :eusa_sick:
How did you get that photo? I thought I burned them all.
Quote from: Rebis on September 22, 2008, 08:47:46 PM
How did you get that photo? I thought I burned them all.
I put a remote webcam in your room. I have a pay site offering live streeming video of you sleeping. It is a real hit. I always get a lot of traffic when you wear the supergirl PJ's:
www.rebisasleep.com (http://www.rebisasleep.com)
I'm telling on you.
Once I find out who to tell.
You need a counter for that link. :laugh:
ps...you're avatar is AWESOME, Nicky!
If I had the time I was going to set up a site specially with the pic of Rebis's foot. ;D
I've had a sudden interest in the dune series again. It has been some years since I read them. I've read the prequals but I have not read the two sequals written by Franks son and that other guy. I would love to find out where it was all going. I found it got quite convoluted with Chapterhouse Dune. Maybe I'll line them all up and read them in order...
Allow me to jump back to the topic.
I don't think I will ever fit in either. As a kid, without being conscious about it, I was pretty androgynous mentally. But since I never thought about it, I never worried about fitting in or not. I played with boys and girls. Then I grew up and started thinking that maybe I was FtM, but I never really looked into it, or knew anyone else who was, so there was no trying to fit in with anyone. Of course I don't think I would fit in with the cisgender either.
Then I came to identify as androgyne, and now I definitely didn't fit in. Haha. I lurk in the FtM forum, but haven't worked up the courage to post anything yet. I read the MtF forum sometimes too, but certainly I wouldn't fit in there. I'm pretty comfortable with my own self identify even though I haven't really told many people about it. Only a few of my friends know, since I don't talk about it unless it comes up, and I think I've only specifically used the word "androgyne" to one person. So it's a little odd for me when my friends say things that distinctly put me in a female role, but while my body is still this feminine, I don't want to really insist on anything. I think being androgyne gives us a unique view and ability to understand, though not necessarily to fit in.
WOW Ur opions are great !Make my eyes widely OPEN
funny. I was just trying to explain this to a friend of mine. Told her that sometimes I just want to fit in somewhere so badly, but cant.
Quote from: Shion on September 24, 2008, 05:10:39 AM
Allow me to jump back to the topic.
You fiend. :o
Well, i reckon pretty much anyone is welcome here, so welcome all.
Hi I'm Barbs/Brandon
I'm from South africa. I find I am a lone voice for androgynes, on our site over here. We have a group called GenderDynamiX, that is the only transgender advocacy group in South Africa and Africa. Androgynes are a very small group that do not easily identify themselves, over here, so I am really glad for this post and site.
Yes, I do not feel I fit in very much either, and the road is lonely, not identifying in the binary. For me, as I try to explain to those on the GDX site, my first goal is to be recognised as human. I am. Being bio-female is a drain as I cannot identify with it, and being male is just another identity that society recognises, and would be another binary I do not identiry with. :o Heeeeelllpppp I just want to be me.
Hi Barbara/Brandon,
We're happy you found us. The more the merrier.
I saw that other post where you said you can grow a beard. Cool!
Rebis
Well Phate, if it makes ya feel any better, Im a bit confused too. As soon as I turn into a man physically, I feel as though Im going to become a crossdresser and try to get people thinkin Im a physical female.
Quote from: Jack Daniels on October 05, 2008, 08:17:39 PM
Well Phate, if it makes ya feel any better, Im a bit confused too. As soon as I turn into a man physically, I feel as though Im going to become a crossdresser and try to get people thinkin Im a physical female.
OMG!! *head's spinning*
but yeah, i know. for some reason, i feel like much more of a badass than before transition. it doesn't make sense, but i'm like, "Tank Girl" or something now.
-ellie
Quote from: ell on October 05, 2008, 09:13:06 PM
Quote from: Jack Daniels on October 05, 2008, 08:17:39 PM
Well Phate, if it makes ya feel any better, Im a bit confused too. As soon as I turn into a man physically, I feel as though Im going to become a crossdresser and try to get people thinkin Im a physical female.
OMG!! *head's spinning*
but yeah, i know. for some reason, i feel like much more of a badass than before transition. it doesn't make sense, but i'm like, "Tank Girl" or something now.
-ellie
You look awfully sweet for Tank Girl. :P
Quote from: Jaimey on October 06, 2008, 07:54:03 PM
Quote from: ell on October 05, 2008, 09:13:06 PM
Quote from: Jack Daniels on October 05, 2008, 08:17:39 PM
Well Phate, if it makes ya feel any better, Im a bit confused too. As soon as I turn into a man physically, I feel as though Im going to become a crossdresser and try to get people thinkin Im a physical female.
OMG!! *head's spinning*
but yeah, i know. for some reason, i feel like much more of a badass than before transition. it doesn't make sense, but i'm like, "Tank Girl" or something now.
-ellie
You look awfully sweet for Tank Girl. :P
aw, thanks!
You're welcome! :laugh:
I've NEVER fit in, when I was a teen I was told brain tumor is why you are different but I didn't fit with other people "Like me (teens with brain tumors)" becuse they were not like me I spent 10 years trying to fit and be the man even though I new I wasn't "normal". I tried to cover with humor when I needed to let it out you know how men R from Mars & Woman R from Venus ... well I'm from Pluto that normaly got a laugh which I liked
but saying I felt more like a lesbian then a straight guy was too weird. no matter how hard I tried to fit I was always weird and have never fit In now know I need to be me mabie I'll find someone who gets me IRL I'm in a cross dress group and go to a trans group hoping to find someone like me but I don't fit in either group. but at least they are nice to me, even if they don't understand. sorry to take so long to post
I know I'll never fit in trying to b what I'm not. cross my fingers I'll find somewhere as me