Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Community Conversation => Transsexual talk => Female to male transsexual talk (FTM) => Topic started by: Mister on October 20, 2008, 11:46:02 PM

Title: Gender Neutral Pronouns
Post by: Mister on October 20, 2008, 11:46:02 PM
Anyone else find them horribly tedious?
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Pronouns
Post by: Janet_Girl on October 20, 2008, 11:48:23 PM
Yeah.  You, It, Them, Us.  Whatever happened to He, She, Him and Her.  Is it that hard? ???
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Pronouns
Post by: Mister on October 20, 2008, 11:49:44 PM
I'm talking about hir and ze and xie and all those other sets I can't ever remember.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Pronouns
Post by: Janet_Girl on October 20, 2008, 11:51:54 PM
OK I am confused ???
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Pronouns
Post by: Mister on October 20, 2008, 11:53:33 PM
Instead of using male and female pronouns (he/she) some folks opt for fancy new gender-neutral ones like the few I put in my last post.  It seems most prevalent on college campuses and live journal from my amateur sleuthing.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Pronouns
Post by: Janet_Girl on October 20, 2008, 11:55:58 PM
OK I guess I haven't heard them then.  I had wondered about that in your last post.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Pronouns
Post by: trapthavok on October 21, 2008, 12:00:02 AM
I've never really heard them before  ???
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Pronouns
Post by: Nero on October 21, 2008, 12:11:07 AM
I like the 'sie' and 'hir' versions. 'hym' isn't bad for more masculine folk.

Sometimes they're a pain and half the time with androgynes I end up accidently switching from he/she, him/her and back a lot.

I think it's more comfortable for some non-binary folk not to be called by binary pronouns. And I try to respect that even though I slip a lot.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Pronouns
Post by: Janet_Girl on October 21, 2008, 12:19:05 AM
OK I am the dumb dame.  Now I think I understand.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Pronouns
Post by: JonasCarminis on October 21, 2008, 12:21:06 AM
i usually only use them when im not sure which the person prefers.  or if i just dont know which (if either) the person is!
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Pronouns
Post by: TamTam on October 21, 2008, 12:30:09 AM
I don't have a problem with them.  Some people prefer them, usually androgynes, and I try to respect people's preferences.  There's nothing different about wanting to be called "ze" than there is about wanting to be called "he" or "she," imo. :)
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Pronouns
Post by: sneakersjay on October 21, 2008, 03:02:17 AM
Quote from: Janet Lynn on October 21, 2008, 12:19:05 AM
OK I am the dumb dame.  Now I think I understand.

No, we're just the old farts. ;D

I've read them on a few sites.  I guess I don't know any androgynes in real life who have asked to be called by gender-neutral pronouns.  In reality, how does that work with employers?


Jay
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Pronouns
Post by: Janet_Girl on October 21, 2008, 06:02:39 AM
Jay,

Yeah, who can understand them.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Pronouns
Post by: Jay on October 21, 2008, 07:01:39 AM
Ive never heard of them either!
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Pronouns
Post by: Sandy on October 21, 2008, 09:50:55 AM
I used to be a he, now I am a she.

I really don't wish to be referred to as sie or hir.

Sorry if the androgynous folks wish to be referred to in the neutral, but I am NOT neutral!

-Sandy(it's SHE dammit!!!)
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Pronouns
Post by: Constance on October 21, 2008, 11:11:30 AM
I never heard of them before coming to Susan's, but I'm still uncertain of when and how to use them. So, I try to craft my sentances in ways that avoid both gendered and genderless pronouns. It's not so much that I find them tedious, but that I find it hard to remember their proper usage. When to use sie as opposed to xie or ze? It's complicated, but so is gender identity.

I'm an androgyne, but I usually present as male. So, he/him/his works fine for me. Perhaps it is the genderBLEEP/genderqueer crowd who prefer the neutral? With such persons, as I understand, there is a greater imperative to use neutral words. I think of myself as more gender-fluid, so I prefer pronouns that are based on how I present.

I know there are others who don't share this point of view.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Pronouns
Post by: TamTam on October 21, 2008, 11:33:33 AM
As far as I can tell, all the gender neutral pronouns are interchangeable.  For example, there's no difference in use between sie, xie, or ze- they're all the same.  It's just that they haven't been narrowed down to one, single, widely-accepted term, so people use whatever they're used to or whatever they think sounds best.  "Ze" was the first one I ever heard of, so it's the one I use the most.  But if I used "sie" instead, it would mean the exact same thing. :)

At first I had only met people online who preferred to be referred to with neutral pronouns, but I recently met two people in real life who prefer them, too, so I really don't like thinking about them as though they're somehow 'strange' or not as valid as gendered pronouns.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Pronouns
Post by: Constance on October 21, 2008, 11:50:57 AM
Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't think these pronouns are strange. Non-standard, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean strange. Languages evolve over time, so there will always (it seems to me) be words that are at one time non-standard that will become standard at another.