Barbara Walters just announced it on The View.
it's not the first of April, is it?
::cringes::
Quote from: Mister on November 13, 2008, 01:46:05 PM
it's not the first of April, is it?
::cringes::
Barbara has an exclusive interview airing soon, tomorrow night. Let's hope it's not April 1!
Not again .... :icon_weirdface: I guess they didn't make enough money on the first one ... :eusa_wall:
gina
let's hope it is.
I am so glad I don't own a television.
If it's not April 1st, it better be the Twilight Zone....
First time was bad enough with all the publicity...but a second?
Way to make FtM a joke in the world. I better leave it at that because I have absolutely NOTHING positive to say about this.
I respect the fact he has the balls to be outted as a "man that's pregnant". But I agree with the rest in that it makes f2m's a joke in a lot of peoples eyes. He needs to keep his personal life private, and quit trying to get famous.
First of all, there's no such thing as bad publicity. Secondly, Thomas is a very masculine guy. He's pushing the boundries of gender roles As well as the definition of family. I think we all need to open our minds a little.
If and when I have SRS I plan on going off HRT and regain my fertility. I want to bank some sperm just in case I ever find myself wanting to start a family with a person, male or female, that possesses a womb.
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 13, 2008, 11:38:54 PM
First of all, there's no such thing as bad publicity.
As a fellow resident of SF, I'm surprised to read this from you. Surely you haven't missed all the uproar surrounding prop 8 that is going on in our streets. I know I can't open my email without at least ten messages about Prop 8. The fundies killed gay marriage (or at least wounded it) in California. What makes you think they won't do the same for trans rights?
I have no problem with him popping out as many kids as he so desires. Him publicizing his pregnancies has impacted my life on a daily basis. If you happen to travel from the East Bay, check out the advertisements in both the Fruitvale and El Cerrito BART stations (SF bound platforms) about recycling magazines- they both contain an image of the People Magazine "Pregnant Man!!!" headline. I get to look at them almost daily when waiting for a train back to the city. My favorite is when other very bored people waiting for a train coming from Richmond start reading it and discussing and laughing about the pregnant man. And I can assure you, they are not kind. And my hysterectomy! My doctor's reservations in doing so weren't because of an insurance glitch or my age or doing a so-called transgender surgery or any sort of health risks, but rather he was concerned that I might not fully understand that this will prevent me from bearing children of my own, "... like that transsexual on Oprah. Or is he still a transsexual? I suppose that's unprofessional to ask you, isn't it?"
Perhaps the MTF community doesn't feel as outed from mainstream society as the FTM community does, but we are still feeling the aftershocks from baby #1. I'm glad my paperwork and my transition are complete and urge others to expedite changes to theirs.
I dunno on one hand I admire his bravery to bear a child when his wife cant. i mean he must be pretty secure with his body and status as an ftm to go thru pregnancy. cause there's no way in hell that i would ever get pregnant by choice! I want those parts down there removed as quick as possible!
But if he had that much discomfort with himself as a female then why would he transition and then have all that junk inserted in the no-no area and have his body shape turn back to female??
Maybe he really is uncomfortable about it, but he feels it's something he has to do?
And what about the baby's health? I know he must of stopped testosterone but, wouldn't that of atrophied the lady parts??
and I agree with you guys, I don't like how this has gotten so much media attention, and that he's actually talking to them about it and going on shows and documentaries, makes him seem like he wants the attention. Obviously it's not his intention to make a joke out of it or make it like it's something negative, but of course the media has its own twisted agenda.. Maybe he shoulda just kept his mouth ... and legs, shut. ;)
This post is disgusting and it isn't Thomas that is turning my stomach. The amount of bigotry here is revolting. It isn't my life and isn't your, we have no right to pass judgment least that judgment be turned on us. How can we expect society to accept us if we are so hateful towards our own community? So what if this man has a child or a dozen, so what if he makes news or gives interviews? What does it say about you? People will choose to discriminate against our community no matter what individuals do, should we justify it by saying he brought it on himself? Can anyone earn abuse? Thomas isn't the first FTM to get pregnant but he is the most well known. If you don't like the imagine Thomas is holding up for the world to see, give the world something else to see.
->-bleeped-<-boy
Not to sound mean, but why was he even famous the first time.
It's no medical marvel, and nothing new.
Quote from: Mister on November 14, 2008, 12:38:59 AM
My doctor's reservations in doing so weren't because of an insurance glitch or my age or doing a so-called transgender surgery or any sort of health risks, but rather he was concerned that I might not fully understand that this will prevent me from bearing children of my own, "... like that transsexual on Oprah. Or is he still a transsexual? I suppose that's unprofessional to ask you, isn't it?"
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcolbertsheroes.org%2Flolberts%2Fthumbs%2FHeaddesk_macro_400px.jpg&hash=97475f7f2172bf7d14feb26a8eebce406fc5a9e6)
Guess that's where I am fortunate to go "You know, I have one, lost a second, got the tubal when I was 24, never regretted it. TAKE THE DAMN THING OUT PLOX.
Posted on: November 14, 2008, 08:32:08 am
Quote from: Leslie Ann on November 14, 2008, 03:40:22 AM
Not to sound mean, but why was he even famous the first time.
It's no medical marvel, and nothing new.
Come on, TV = shock porn. Also, Availability Heuristic BB
Quote from: Mister on November 14, 2008, 12:38:59 AM
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 13, 2008, 11:38:54 PM
First of all, there's no such thing as bad publicity.
As a fellow resident of SF, I'm surprised to read this from you. Surely you haven't missed all the uproar surrounding prop 8 that is going on in our streets. I know I can't open my email without at least ten messages about Prop 8. The fundies killed gay marriage (or at least wounded it) in California. What makes you think they won't do the same for trans rights?
Yes, I've noticed the uproar. I have no doubt that prop 8 will be reversed one way or another. The first anti-gay marriage initiative garnared 60% of the vote. This one squeaked by with 52%. There are already plans to place it on the ballot again in 2010 if the courts don't overturn it.
QuoteI have no problem with him popping out as many kids as he so desires. Him publicizing his pregnancies has impacted my life on a daily basis. If you happen to travel from the East Bay, check out the advertisements in both the Fruitvale and El Cerrito BART stations (SF bound platforms) about recycling magazines- they both contain an image of the People Magazine "Pregnant Man!!!" headline. I get to look at them almost daily when waiting for a train back to the city. My favorite is when other very bored people waiting for a train coming from Richmond start reading it and discussing and laughing about the pregnant man. And I can assure you, they are not kind. And my hysterectomy! My doctor's reservations in doing so weren't because of an insurance glitch or my age or doing a so-called transgender surgery or any sort of health risks, but rather he was concerned that I might not fully understand that this will prevent me from bearing children of my own, "... like that transsexual on Oprah. Or is he still a transsexual? I suppose that's unprofessional to ask you, isn't it?"
I rarely go to the East Bay but people have been laughing about trans people for a long time. People are cruel, that's nothing new.
Doctors are always reluctant to perform sterilizing procedures on people that have not had a child because they frequently do regret it. Your doctor may have a poor bedside manner but that hardly makes his concerns invalid. He would have that hesitation with or without Thomas Beatty.
QuotePerhaps the MTF community doesn't feel as outed from mainstream society as the FTM community does, but we are still feeling the aftershocks from baby #1. I'm glad my paperwork and my transition are complete and urge others to expedite changes to theirs.
Given the realities of passability that is definately not the case. Most FTMs I know pass easily. Facial hair gives you a lot of credibility much the same as it detracts from that of MTFs that haven't completed the long process of having it removed.
Finally, do you really believe that the actions of one man in Bend, Oregon are going to harm anyone's transition?
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 14, 2008, 10:26:23 AM
Finally, do you really believe that the actions of one man in Bend, Oregon are going to harm anyone's transition?
:icon_blahblah: "Well he *claims* to be a man,
but he's having a baby," :eusa_sick:
so he must "really" be a woman." :icon_punch:
It undercuts the perception of our maleness.
Quote from: iFindMeHere on November 14, 2008, 10:36:44 AM
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 14, 2008, 10:26:23 AM
Finally, do you really believe that the actions of one man in Bend, Oregon are going to harm anyone's transition?
:icon_blahblah: "Well he *claims* to be a man,
but he's having a baby," :eusa_sick:
so he must "really" be a woman." :icon_punch:
It undercuts the perception of our maleness.
Do you have a mouse in your pocket? I know you don't speak for ALL transmen. >:-)
Anyone else seen the comments on the article on AOL? It's hard enough for society to be understanding. I can't even imagine how much crap his children will get when they're old enough to go to school. All over greed.
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 14, 2008, 10:51:40 AM
Quote from: iFindMeHere on November 14, 2008, 10:36:44 AM
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 14, 2008, 10:26:23 AM
Finally, do you really believe that the actions of one man in Bend, Oregon are going to harm anyone's transition?
:icon_blahblah: "Well he *claims* to be a man,
but he's having a baby," :eusa_sick:
so he must "really" be a woman." :icon_punch:
It undercuts the perception of our maleness.
Do you have a mouse in your pocket? I know you don't speak for ALL transmen. >:-)
I never claimed to. My opinion is mine and I'll share it if I choose.
Posted on: November 14, 2008, 09:57:29 am
Quote from: GQjoey on November 14, 2008, 10:52:19 AM
Anyone else seen the comments on the article on AOL? It's hard enough for society to be understanding. I can't even imagine how much crap his children will get when they're old enough to go to school. All over greed.
nope--will you PM me a link?
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 14, 2008, 10:51:40 AM
Quote from: iFindMeHere on November 14, 2008, 10:36:44 AM
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 14, 2008, 10:26:23 AM
Finally, do you really believe that the actions of one man in Bend, Oregon are going to harm anyone's transition?
:icon_blahblah: "Well he *claims* to be a man,
but he's having a baby," :eusa_sick:
so he must "really" be a woman." :icon_punch:
It undercuts the perception of our maleness.
Do you have a mouse in your pocket? I know you don't speak for ALL transmen. >:-)
None of us speak for all trans people, but I agree with him completely.
As you undoubtedly know, most trans people currently take advantage of (and i do not mean this in a manipulative sense) very ambiguous laws and statutes that haven't necessarily been tested. Or, as someone said in a thread a week or so ago, "it's legal 'til it's not." The easiest way to keep these things from being dissected by fundies and their friends is to not rock the boat.
Posted on: November 14, 2008, 12:51:26 pm
and i have never stated that I am childless. For all you know, I've got ten running around from before I was male identified.
Quote from: iFindMeHere on November 14, 2008, 10:36:44 AM
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 14, 2008, 10:26:23 AM
Finally, do you really believe that the actions of one man in Bend, Oregon are going to harm anyone's transition?
:icon_blahblah: "Well he *claims* to be a man,
but he's having a baby," :eusa_sick:
so he must "really" be a woman." :icon_punch:
It undercuts the perception of our maleness.
*Deactivates Cloaking Device Momentarily*
She's right. It really doesn't affect your life. IMO this is internalized transphobia. Just let it go.
*Resume Cloak*
Quote from: Mister on November 14, 2008, 02:11:28 PM
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 14, 2008, 10:51:40 AM
Quote from: iFindMeHere on November 14, 2008, 10:36:44 AM
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 14, 2008, 10:26:23 AM
Finally, do you really believe that the actions of one man in Bend, Oregon are going to harm anyone's transition?
:icon_blahblah: "Well he *claims* to be a man,
but he's having a baby," :eusa_sick:
so he must "really" be a woman." :icon_punch:
It undercuts the perception of our maleness.
Do you have a mouse in your pocket? I know you don't speak for ALL transmen. >:-)
None of us speak for all trans people, but I agree with him completely.
As you undoubtedly know, most trans people currently take advantage of (and i do not mean this in a manipulative sense) very ambiguous laws and statutes that haven't necessarily been tested. Or, as someone said in a thread a week or so ago, "it's legal 'til it's not." The easiest way to keep these things from being dissected by fundies and their friends is to not rock the boat.
Posted on: November 14, 2008, 12:51:26 pm
and i have never stated that I am childless. For all you know, I've got ten running around from before I was male identified.
I agree also! If you are going to be a man...be a man. Don't go out there and openly give the world a reason to wage war on us or cheapen our efforts to move forward. I will have children, but not from my body! I am a man and will always be a man. If my being angry about all this publicity makes me a bigot, then so be it...call me whatever you want but his(her?) actions have impacted all of us in some way or another directly or indirectly be it physical or verbal. I don't apprecaite it at all.
So if a woman can't have kids she's less of a woman? If biomen are ever able to have children would that mean they aren't men? I thought we gave up that ignorance a long time ago, I guess not.
I agree this smacks of internalized transphobia and sexism. Heck now I want to get pregnant just to prove that it wouldn't make me less of a man but alas I have had the hysto already and I really hate the idea personally. As for not rocking the boat,?, no one is going to tell me that I am not allowed to do something just because it makes someone uncomfortable. Someone doubting my identity doesn't invalidate my identity, it just makes someone wrong about me. People told me I was damaging the community for doing drag post transition but that wasn't true either.
->-bleeped-<-boy
It's unfortunate that our power structure is setup to identify each person by the least desirable classification that the person has. I do not agree with the action or intention of every person who is right handed, brown haired, under the age of 35, a resident of the state of California nor people who wear the same kind of underwear. It is perfectly logical and acceptable to voice an opposing opinion with anyone you share any of these or millions of other arbitrary traits with.
Why is a voice stating they don't like the way that one person represents this particular trait so alarming? If you told the fat speedo wearing man that it isn't the best look for him, it wouldn't be such an issue. Hell, it wouldn't be such an issue with the general public either. "Oh, look. Another fat guy in a banana hammock."
Quote from: Beyond on November 14, 2008, 02:37:10 PM
Quote from: iFindMeHere on November 14, 2008, 10:36:44 AM
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 14, 2008, 10:26:23 AM
Finally, do you really believe that the actions of one man in Bend, Oregon are going to harm anyone's transition?
:icon_blahblah: "Well he *claims* to be a man,
but he's having a baby," :eusa_sick:
so he must "really" be a woman." :icon_punch:
It undercuts the perception of our maleness.
*Deactivates Cloaking Device Momentarily*
She's right. It really doesn't affect your life. IMO this is internalized transphobia. Just let it go.
*Resume Cloak*
yyyyyeah. no. that was me pointing out what transphobia in most people + beattie's actions will equal.
Quote from: Laura Eva B on November 14, 2008, 07:53:13 PM
Christs I so hate this "Thomas Beatty" woman !
She's a woman period ... hell, she must have periods too ... no "guy" would choose to birth a kid, let alone two ?
Sure if she'd kept it private rather than milking the media for $1000s of dollars it wouldn't have been an issue.
But I can't even understand a transguy putting transition "on hold" to have a child, let alone doing it from her supposedly "transitioned" perspective ?
Shame on her as it makes a mockery of trans issues, it gets in all the UK papers too, and even though I'm M2F it undermines everything I've struggled for to gain understanding and acceptance ... and when a joke like this re-appears on the front pages it makes me cringe.
I know what everybody around me thinks of this and its kinda "Male pregnancy, pull the other one ... she's a woman" ... "Gross" ... "Money Grabber" ... "So sorry for the child" ... yup, that's the reality ...
If a transwoman elected to keep her male "equipment" and repeatedly impregnated her female partner / wife, would she have any claim to be a woman, be entitled to be called "she" ... think NOT !!!
Wish f....ng Thomas Beatty would have the common decency to dissapear.
Grrrrrr .....
It's good to discover from whence American bigotry came. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, does it? Thomas is legally and in all matters, male. Sorry to stretch the boundaries of what's male and what's female, but by your transition you've done that yourself, yes?
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 14, 2008, 08:05:02 PM
Thomas is legally and in all matters, male. Sorry to stretch the boundaries of what's male and what's female, but by your transition you've done that yourself, yes?
Some of us really don't want to stretch boundaries. It kind of disturbs me that he/she can be seen as legally male when he/she is by any definition TG at the best, but more obviously ambivalent butch lesbian having undergone hrt (but not on it for a couple of years now) and masectomy.
I have no issues about what the person wants to be if they're honest about their status, but to claim to be a man and then very publicly birth two children beggars belief !
I'm generally for the "gender binary", least regarding our legal status and TS definition, but I accept a "gender spectrum", and if you want to muddle the barriers, be in-between, be gender-queer, please don't pretend to be what you are not. Be proud of who you are but don't claim you are like me !
What offends most people's sensibilities is Thomas Beatty's claims and publicity leeching as a pregnant "man". Men DON'T get pregnant !
P.S. And through my own transition I don't feel I've stretched any boundaries, I just corrected an error of nature with minimal "drama" and I'm accepted unambiguously as a woman by all who know me, whether they know of my history or not.
Laura x
Quote from: ->-bleeped-<-boy link=topic=48716.msg304240#msg304240 date=1226652359
This post is disgusting and it isn't Thomas that is turning my stomach. The amount of bigotry here is revolting. It isn't my life and isn't your, we have no right to pass judgment least that judgment be turned on us. How can we expect society to accept us if we are so hateful towards our own community? So what if this man has a child or a dozen, so what if he makes news or gives interviews? What does it say about you? People will choose to discriminate against our community no matter what individuals do, should we justify it by saying he brought it on himself? Can anyone earn abuse? Thomas isn't the first FTM to get pregnant but he is the most well known. If you don't like the imagine Thomas is holding up for the world to see, give the world something else to see.
->-bleeped-<-boy
I think you're being quite unreasonable throwing bigotry accusations out at everyone who's uncomfortable with Thomas. I think very few if any of us including you want the first thing that comes to peoples minds when they think "transsexual" to be "pregnant man". Many of us are trying to quietly be accepted as normal members of our gender while the most publicly visible transsexual out there right now is enjoying publicly defying the most basic element of gender roles.
Personally I can't judge if he's a man or a woman or a real TS or any of that crap people like to use when they think they know better than the person in question what they are. But I am confident that rushing to the media with #2 loudly refutes his claim he just wanted the story people hear to be his own. His story got a wide hearing with #1 publicizing #2 right out of the gate just screams he's only looking for attention. And personally I don't need and can't respect his seeking this kind of attention.
He can do anything he wants with his body/life and still call himself any gender he pleases, but when he's rabidly chasing media attn the rest of us can call a pig a pig and not appreciate the damage he's doing to the image we are trying to get people to see of ourselves.
Remember the media didn't come to him, he came to the media... not once... but TWICE. You only need once if having your side heard is what you're really seeking.
Posted on: November 14, 2008, 10:06:13 pm
Quote from: Laura Eva B on November 14, 2008, 08:41:17 PMMen DON'T get pregnant!
This information should come as quite a shock to every transman here who has ever been pregnant... lol
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 14, 2008, 09:22:46 PM
Quote from: Laura Eva B on November 14, 2008, 08:41:17 PM
P.S. And through my own transition I don't feel I've stretched any boundaries, I just corrected an error of nature with minimal "drama" and I'm accepted unambiguously as a woman by all who know me, whether they know of my history or not.
Laura x
I hate to burst your bubble Laura, but to the world outside we're all just a bunch ->-bleeped-<-gots.
Come on now... was that really necessary ? :icon_no:
gina
Just wanna throw out there that there is research being done on the possibility of biological men carrying babies (this has been worked on long before Thomas ever put male pregnancy under the spotlight). There may be a point in time when it's not just transmen that can get pregnant, but all men could have this possibility.
Isn't this really about choice and reproductive rights? Shouldn't Thomas Beatty be able to make the same choices that any other human can make? Thomas didn't seek publicity the seond time around. Barbara Walters wanted to do a follow-up story from the original. She guessed about the second pregnancy and Mr. Beatty confirmed it.
There are many FTMs that don't opt for the bottom surgery. Should they be told to be good little boys and not start a family of their own?
Even if it WERE possible for bio men to have children, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say 99.9% wouldn't do it. I'm not one to judge anyone, but when I have people that know about me, coming up to me, constantly asking "wtf", it DOES affect me being a trans man. Live and let live, no doubt. But why go public? Why give the world another reason to call us freaks.
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 14, 2008, 09:51:33 PM
Isn't this really about choice and reproductive rights? Shouldn't Thomas Beatty be able to make the same choices that any other human can make? Thomas didn't seek publicity the seond time around. Barbara Walters wanted to do a follow-up story from the original. She guessed about the second pregnancy and Mr. Beatty confirmed it.
There are many FTMs that don't opt for the bottom surgery. Should they be told to be good little boys and not start a family of their own?
I'm all for reproductive rights. Before you start testosterone, you're given the option of banking your eggs and told that you may not be fertile if you were to cease treatment and that if you manage to get pregnant, there is risk to the fetus. If someone wants to *safely* exercise their reproductive rights AND transition, have kids beforehand or bank your eggs for a surrogate.
I'm "on the fence" over this whole pregnant man thing. Here's why.
I would definitely not want to be a mother to a child which was conceived by using my penis so, I can't understand why a trans-man would want to utilize his womb to birth a baby.
But, the world is a complicated place and as trans-people we all think we know the answer when it comes to these kinds of issues.
Not a day goes by that someone on this forum is preaching about the acceptance of transgendered people by the cisgendered majority. Yet we are unable to be accepting of our own kind.
Perhaps we are threatened by this pregnant man because we came to realize that we are not as perfect and accepting as we thought we were.
Quote from: Mister on November 14, 2008, 11:17:36 PM
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 14, 2008, 09:51:33 PM
Isn't this really about choice and reproductive rights? Shouldn't Thomas Beatty be able to make the same choices that any other human can make? Thomas didn't seek publicity the seond time around. Barbara Walters wanted to do a follow-up story from the original. She guessed about the second pregnancy and Mr. Beatty confirmed it.
There are many FTMs that don't opt for the bottom surgery. Should they be told to be good little boys and not start a family of their own?
I'm all for reproductive rights. Before you start testosterone, you're given the option of banking your eggs and told that you may not be fertile if you were to cease treatment and that if you manage to get pregnant, there is risk to the fetus. If someone wants to *safely* exercise their reproductive rights AND transition, have kids beforehand or bank your eggs for a surrogate.
And that's your choice. But can you see that someone else might choose differently? I would doubt there is much clinical evidence of the effects of HRT on a fetus conceived after cessation of therapy. There are also lots of tests that can bbe done to determine the health of a fetus in utero. I just watched BW's show and found the Beatty's a charming family. May the live happily ever after. :angel:
Some words you've all taught me: live & let live!
Quote from: Laura Eva B on November 14, 2008, 07:53:13 PM
Christs I so hate this "Thomas Beatty" woman !
She's a woman period ... hell, she must have periods too ... no "guy" would choose to birth a kid, let alone two ?
Sure if she'd kept it private rather than milking the media for $1000s of dollars it wouldn't have been an issue.
But I can't even understand a transguy putting transition "on hold" to have a child, let alone doing it from her supposedly "transitioned" perspective ?
Shame on her as it makes a mockery of trans issues, it gets in all the UK papers too, and even though I'm M2F it undermines everything I've struggled for to gain understanding and acceptance ... and when a joke like this re-appears on the front pages it makes me cringe.
I know what everybody around me thinks of this and its kinda "Male pregnancy, pull the other one ... she's a woman" ... "Gross" ... "Money Grabber" ... "So sorry for the child" ... yup, that's the reality ...
If a transwoman elected to keep her male "equipment" and repeatedly impregnated her female partner / wife, would she have any claim to be a woman, be entitled to be called "she" ... think NOT !!!
Wish f....ng Thomas Beatty would have the common decency to dissapear.
Grrrrrr .....
*laughs his ass off but is in no way mocking you*
Posted on: November 15, 2008, 06:55:48 am
Quote from: Nikki on November 14, 2008, 09:08:01 PM
Quote from: ->-bleeped-<-boy link=topic=48716.msg304240#msg304240 date=1226652359
This post is disgusting and it isn't Thomas that is turning my stomach. The amount of bigotry here is revolting. It isn't my life and isn't your, we have no right to pass judgment least that judgment be turned on us. How can we expect society to accept us if we are so hateful towards our own community? So what if this man has a child or a dozen, so what if he makes news or gives interviews? What does it say about you? People will choose to discriminate against our community no matter what individuals do, should we justify it by saying he brought it on himself? Can anyone earn abuse? Thomas isn't the first FTM to get pregnant but he is the most well known. If you don't like the imagine Thomas is holding up for the world to see, give the world something else to see.
->-bleeped-<-boy
I think you're being quite unreasonable throwing bigotry accusations out at everyone who's uncomfortable with Thomas. I think very few if any of us including you want the first thing that comes to peoples minds when they think "transsexual" to be "pregnant man". Many of us are trying to quietly be accepted as normal members of our gender while the most publicly visible transsexual out there right now is enjoying publicly defying the most basic element of gender roles.
Personally I can't judge if he's a man or a woman or a real TS or any of that crap people like to use when they think they know better than the person in question what they are. But I am confident that rushing to the media with #2 loudly refutes his claim he just wanted the story people hear to be his own. His story got a wide hearing with #1 publicizing #2 right out of the gate just screams he's only looking for attention. And personally I don't need and can't respect his seeking this kind of attention.
He can do anything he wants with his body/life and still call himself any gender he pleases, but when he's rabidly chasing media attn the rest of us can call a pig a pig and not appreciate the damage he's doing to the image we are trying to get people to see of ourselves.
Remember the media didn't come to him, he came to the media... not once... but TWICE. You only need once if having your side heard is what you're really seeking.
NIKKI is my SHERO once again!
[/quote]
Quote from: Nikki on November 14, 2008, 09:08:01 PM
Posted on: November 14, 2008, 10:06:13 pm
Quote from: Laura Eva B on November 14, 2008, 08:41:17 PMMen DON'T get pregnant!
This information should come as quite a shock to every transman here who has ever been pregnant... lol
uh. As one of them. I agree. I spent EIGHT MONTHS (didn't figure it out cos...well...i never related to the concept) in a HORRID state of dissociation. Pregnancy was a NIGHTMARE and i'll tell you something. I love my kid, but when i had a miscarriage 1.5 years later I was sad, sure, but mostly relieved.
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 15, 2008, 01:27:36 AM
Quote from: Mister on November 14, 2008, 11:17:36 PM
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 14, 2008, 09:51:33 PM
Isn't this really about choice and reproductive rights? Shouldn't Thomas Beatty be able to make the same choices that any other human can make? Thomas didn't seek publicity the seond time around. Barbara Walters wanted to do a follow-up story from the original. She guessed about the second pregnancy and Mr. Beatty confirmed it.
There are many FTMs that don't opt for the bottom surgery. Should they be told to be good little boys and not start a family of their own?
I'm all for reproductive rights. Before you start testosterone, you're given the option of banking your eggs and told that you may not be fertile if you were to cease treatment and that if you manage to get pregnant, there is risk to the fetus. If someone wants to *safely* exercise their reproductive rights AND transition, have kids beforehand or bank your eggs for a surrogate.
And that's your choice. But can you see that someone else might choose differently? I would doubt there is much clinical evidence of the effects of HRT on a fetus conceived after cessation of therapy. There are also lots of tests that can bbe done to determine the health of a fetus in utero. I just watched BW's show and found the Beatty's a charming family. May the live happily ever after. :angel:
Of course I can. The problem comes from your eggs swimming around in testosterone for years- there are *no* studies on how this could impact your kid. My issue with this dude has never been the fact that he is pregnant- other than concern for the health and safety of his kid - but rather that he has gone so very public with it. Personal actions become political when you're part of a minority group and immeasurably so when you start putting yourself in the eyes of the media.
I think that he is definitely transgendered, which begs him at least a modicum of respect from his "community". He identifies as a he, he prefers male pronouns. We know what that means, right?
Now, I definitely wish Barbara Walters and Oprah knew better than to give him screen time. Why? Because their reports on trans children and trans people have done so much good to bring home the reality and the ordeal of what this is to the cisgendered majority, who has no clue but who is so instrumental in our quest for equal rights.
Thomas is inching towards the Bat boy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_boy) side with this one. I don't mind him having children but I wish he would keep things private.
I said this during the first media go around, and I'll say it again, Thomas Beattie is a real mensch (man for those who don't speak Yiddish). This is all about choice, if a transman wants to bear children, all power to him, if a transwoman wants to keep her penis and impregnate her wife, likewise, all power to her. I don't see why we as a community need to adhere to 1950s stereotypes about what is male and female appropriate behavior. No matter how much we toe the line, the h8ers aren't going to change their negative opinions about us. Why can't we live and let live. BTW, regardless whether one agrees with Thomas' choices, he is a man, and should not be called a woman or addressed with female pronouns, especially by people in our own community.
Z
Quote from: soldierjane on November 15, 2008, 09:20:46 AM
I think that he is definitely transgendered, which begs him at least a modicum of respect from his "community". He identifies as a he, he prefers male pronouns. We know what that means, right?
Now, I definitely wish Barbara Walters and Oprah knew better than to give him screen time. Why? Because their reports on trans children and trans people have done so much good to bring home the reality and the ordeal of what this is to the cisgendered majority, who has no clue but who is so instrumental in our quest for equal rights.
Thomas is inching towards the Bat boy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_boy) side with this one. I don't mind him having children but I wish he would keep things private.
Did you actually watch the show? A segment was devoted to the changing face of the family and it's expanding definition. Barbara Walters isn't Mike Wallace. It was very supportivr of LGBT people in it's content.
Posted on: 15 November 2008, 10:08:31
Quote from: Mister on November 15, 2008, 08:51:29 AM
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 15, 2008, 01:27:36 AM
Quote from: Mister on November 14, 2008, 11:17:36 PM
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 14, 2008, 09:51:33 PM
Isn't this really about choice and reproductive rights? Shouldn't Thomas Beatty be able to make the same choices that any other human can make? Thomas didn't seek publicity the seond time around. Barbara Walters wanted to do a follow-up story from the original. She guessed about the second pregnancy and Mr. Beatty confirmed it.
There are many FTMs that don't opt for the bottom surgery. Should they be told to be good little boys and not start a family of their own?
I'm all for reproductive rights. Before you start testosterone, you're given the option of banking your eggs and told that you may not be fertile if you were to cease treatment and that if you manage to get pregnant, there is risk to the fetus. If someone wants to *safely* exercise their reproductive rights AND transition, have kids beforehand or bank your eggs for a surrogate.
And that's your choice. But can you see that someone else might choose differently? I would doubt there is much clinical evidence of the effects of HRT on a fetus conceived after cessation of therapy. There are also lots of tests that can bbe done to determine the health of a fetus in utero. I just watched BW's show and found the Beatty's a charming family. May the live happily ever after. :angel:
Of course I can. The problem comes from your eggs swimming around in testosterone for years- there are *no* studies on how this could impact your kid. My issue with this dude has never been the fact that he is pregnant- other than concern for the health and safety of his kid - but rather that he has gone so very public with it. Personal actions become political when you're part of a minority group and immeasurably so when you start putting yourself in the eyes of the media.
The Beatty's daughter is normal and very cute! :) Starting a family is one of the most personal choices a person can make. I don't think politics was part of that decision for Mr. and Mrs. Beatty. I'm grateful they made the effort to expand the definition of Mother and Father.
Quote from: scarboroughfair on November 15, 2008, 11:20:20 AM
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 13, 2008, 12:46:59 PM
Barbara Walters just announced it on The View.
Looks like the original "link" is missing..
I wasn't aware there was a time limit to this, try you tube, I don't think there is a "bandwidth limit" for posting on a forum, I'm not sure! What are we taliking about? I've been away for awhile...
There was no original link. I started this thread minutes after she said it on Thursday's show. It was a plug for the BW Special that aired last night.
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 15, 2008, 11:14:43 AM
Quote from: soldierjane on November 15, 2008, 09:20:46 AM
I think that he is definitely transgendered, which begs him at least a modicum of respect from his "community". He identifies as a he, he prefers male pronouns. We know what that means, right?
Now, I definitely wish Barbara Walters and Oprah knew better than to give him screen time. Why? Because their reports on trans children and trans people have done so much good to bring home the reality and the ordeal of what this is to the cisgendered majority, who has no clue but who is so instrumental in our quest for equal rights.
Thomas is inching towards the Bat boy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_boy) side with this one. I don't mind him having children but I wish he would keep things private.
Did you actually watch the show? A segment was devoted to the changing face of the family and it's expanding definition. Barbara Walters isn't Mike Wallace. It was very supportivr of LGBT people in it's content.
True, I never contested the fact that Barbara Walters is helping towards that goal, in fact I praised her. I think you misunderstand my implied meaning: that a lot of publicity for the the Beatie story does not help us much.
FWIW, I've had two cisgendered people come up to me now, asking, "Hey, did you hear that man is pregnant again?"
Both of them basically told me (paraphrasing), "I can sympathize with him wanting a child, especially since this was the only way for them, but if he thinks he's a man wouldn't he have just had his baby quietly and moved on with his transition, rather than getting pregnant again and again and going on TV about it?"
I don't care what he does, but it sure reinforces the stereotype that TSs are out to get attention by loudly breaking the gender roles and rules, rather than quietly assimilating into them.
~Kate~
Quote from: Claire de Lune on November 15, 2008, 11:14:43 AM
The Beatty's daughter is normal and very cute! :) Starting a family is one of the most personal choices a person can make. I don't think politics was part of that decision for Mr. and Mrs. Beatty. I'm grateful they made the effort to expand the definition of Mother and Father.
She's four months old, which is quite early to label her a typical child. besides, if anything has gone wrong do you think *that* part of the story would've gone public?
i have no problems w/ people doing whatever they want to do. if he's able to carry a child and be secure enough in his maleness then good for him. and i personally don't think the child's going to suffer that much, by the time shes in school he'll be back on hormones and they'll just be a normal family. but all the publicity is not a good thing for transpeople. sure, we all know that he's a man who's carrying a baby, but the majority of folks after hearing about this think "oh he's not a real man" or think he's a woman who just went on hormones and had surgery. thats what they start thinking for all transpeople. in a world where transsexuals were understood more this would be fine, but we aren't at that level of acceptance yet
Quote from: Mister on November 15, 2008, 08:51:29 AM
Of course I can. The problem comes from your eggs swimming around in testosterone for years- there are *no* studies on how this could impact your kid. My issue with this dude has never been the fact that he is pregnant- other than concern for the health and safety of his kid - but rather that he has gone so very public with it. Personal actions become political when you're part of a minority group and immeasurably so when you start putting yourself in the eyes of the media.
YES. Publicly we are such a small group that people will overuse heuristics. The second any of us do something it is applied to the witnesses' comprehension of transmen (possibly all trans!) as a category. We don't have enough acceptance/visibility yet for this to happen and not affect peoples' view of us.
A conversation on this also happened in the news forum: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,48746.0.html
Quote from: GQjoey on November 13, 2008, 09:10:28 PM
I respect the fact he has the balls to be outted as a "man that's pregnant". But I agree with the rest in that it makes f2m's a joke in a lot of peoples eyes. He needs to keep his personal life private, and quit trying to get famous.
Exactly!
I dont agree full stop i didnt th 1st and the sec. Wow.. I tell u why i dont agree with him doing this. 1ST of he has felf like a man his howl life right? Ok. but men can have baby fact.. ok he wanted a child. i respect that i would love kids. But not for myself to have one.. I couldnt imagen me being pregnent. NOOO. cuz im a man in my mind and tat one thing then Men can not do is be pregnent. I would keep my eggs but i wouldnt have a baby myself. It dont make sence to me that he would do it if he felt like a man all his life.. The 1st time was wired enough but the sec. I dunno maybe its me. But men cant have babys thats it...
Thomas Beattie is totally blurring the lines as to just what it means to be Trans, or male, or female.
not sure why he shouldn't be allowed to do that.
however, for him to now use his public figure stature to try and get Trans rules applied to his legal status, where he clearly hasn't followed established Trans rules, adds even more confusion and possible hostility and backlash toward all Trans.
for better or worse, established Trans rules specify a binary. while this may not be the best fit for all Trans people, it is something of a requirement that the larger society insists on, for the time being anyway.
Mr. Beatty clearly stepped outside the Trans binary, and now wants to step back in, and raise a fuss about not getting binary status. jeez.
-ell