Dr. Phil Misrepresents Transgender Identity
http://gayrights.change.org/blog/view/dr_phil_misrepresents_transgender_identity (http://gayrights.change.org/blog/view/dr_phil_misrepresents_transgender_identity)
Allison Steinberg
11/25/2008
Shame on you, Dr. Phil. As a man who's own personal mantra is urging people to "get real," Dr. Phil was decidedly unreal in his approach to transgender rights on a show that aired last month. (You Tube clip at the bottom of this post.) Allison Steinberg's latest post takes Dr. Phil to task for allowing a phony doctor with ties to Focus on the Family to be an "expert" on his show regarding to transgender issues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqL1glxmSmQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqL1glxmSmQ)
dr. phil misrepresents himself, i can't stand his show
That was just trans bashing. That guy need to get his facts right.
Added the video...
dr. phil springer?
Crack head Phil. The guys a moron. I can't stand him either.
QuoteIf you want to issue a formal complaint to Dr. Phil, GLAAD, the foremost LGBT watchdog organization recommends that you contact Stephanie Granader, the show's Producer
The email link is on the article page.
http://gayrights.change.org/blog/view/dr_phil_misrepresents_transgender_identity (http://gayrights.change.org/blog/view/dr_phil_misrepresents_transgender_identity)
page
Yea, that guy's an idiot. People like him completely tune out the facts. He said the parents should guide the child toward masculine traits, and the parents say they did, they say they tried telling him he had to wear boys clothes and stuff and he just got more depressed. Yet, the guy still believed that was the way. They totally tune out anything but the things they want to hear. It's so frustrating.
On another note, those people on stage were awesome and their comebacks were spot on. You could tell they knew what they were talking about, while the guy in the audience was just making up his own "facts."
Also, his argument was that at that age kids don't know about gender, their just kids, so we as parents have to guide them into their gender. What a load of BS! So does that mean that if you abandon a kid on the streets and he grows up with no parents that he's going to somehow drift into wanting to be a girl or something. His reasoning makes no sense at all.
I've never liked Phil. Every show he's done about transgendered people left me with a very bad taste in my mouth. He passes himself off as really educated and objective, but everything he does demonstrates the reverse. The fact that he IS so popular and influential is really concerning.
~Simone.
I only watched the video, didn't read the article, so maybe I'm missing something - but I didn't see anything negative about Dr. Phil's role in that conversation.
All he did was give due weight to both sides of the debate. Just because you strongly disagree with one of those two people does not mean Dr. Phil was a jackass for allowing him on the set, what would be more offensive is if he had been so biassed one way or the other that he refused to let us hear both sides.
Each side made some good points, regardless of your beliefs or feelings, and the naysayer certainly presented himself in a calm, mature and surprisingly evenhanded way. At the end of the day, he clearly lost that debate because he had no substantiating facts, and just a few contextless examples.
But we cannot fault him simply because he believes differently than us, that alone does not give us the right to judge him, or Dr. Phill in a negative way. If we did, how would we be any better than those whom we oppose?
Truth Seeker
Quote from: Truth Seeker on November 27, 2008, 12:51:34 AM
I didn't see anything negative about Dr. Phil's role in that conversation.
I agree with that. Dr. Phil didn't put more weight on one side or the other. Actually at 1:13 he kind of refutes the guy. The only issue I have is the title on the screen, "Gender Confused Kids." They're not confused about their gender...they know more about themselves and their gender at that age then the adults trying to help them. It's only the weight and anxiety from the bigotry of society as they grow up that leads to their confusion about themselves.
I think a lot of people put too much emphasis on the fact that kids are "kids." Just because they're young doesn't necessarily make them naive about everything in life. I think children have the capacity to understand a lot of social issues better than adults because they haven't been ingrained with the societal beliefs of the majority. How many people in the trans community can say they knew about themselves very young, around age 5 or 6. Most of them would say definitely. What's that tell you about the naivety of children.
Well I would think that it actually would be pretty confusing to be born into one gender while identifying with another.
But maybe I'm being overly semantical? :P
Personally I just don't see why that title is offensive anymore than the term "Gender Identity Dissorder", it seems to be a descriptive term that's attempting to remain neutral within the argument.
Truth Seeker
Quote from: Natasha on November 26, 2008, 04:35:43 PM
Dr. Phil Misrepresents Transgender Identity
http://gayrights.change.org/blog/view/dr_phil_misrepresents_transgender_identity (http://gayrights.change.org/blog/view/dr_phil_misrepresents_transgender_identity)
Allison Steinberg
11/25/2008
Shame on you, Dr. Phil. As a man who's own personal mantra is urging people to "get real," Dr. Phil was decidedly unreal in his approach to transgender rights on a show that aired last month. (You Tube clip at the bottom of this post.) Allison Steinberg's latest post takes Dr. Phil to task for allowing a phony doctor with ties to Focus on the Family to be an "expert" on his show regarding to transgender issues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqL1glxmSmQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqL1glxmSmQ)
That guy in the glasses needs to lose his dick for a few weeks and then come back and tell us how it feels.
Overall I think its pathetic that Dr. Phil has a show like this. Its so one-sided, and its trashy, bashing-bull->-bleeped-<-.
The glasses guy is going on and on about how strong a parent must be to their kids.
I've always had a viewpoint on parenting. Its a general concept that has never proven itself wrong with what I've seen.
"A scab will fall off of the body when it is picked at."
That is all.
Quote from: Truth Seeker on November 27, 2008, 12:51:34 AMBut we cannot fault him simply because he believes differently than us, that alone does not give us the right to judge him, or Dr. Phill in a negative way. If we did, how would we be any better than those whom we oppose?
The key difference to me is in presentation of evidence. Strongly biased people have a tendency to ignore or misrepresent evidence that doesn't fit their beliefs, and in a public forum like Dr. Phil, that misrepresentation can then go on to influence the audience and viewership at large. People hosting a show like this have an obligation, IMO, to be well informed enough about the subject to know when a guest is misrepresenting things or lying outright, and to correct them. Both sides. Unfortunately the clip is edited to show only the doctor from Focus on the Family, but Dr. Phil himself has a history of bias against his transgender guests.
There's also a more subtle bias at work in the show. Notice that the segment is titled "Gender confused children", and in shows on transgender people, the use of pronouns and names. "Gender confused" is a phrase fundies are notorious for using to describe transgendered people. Using it in the context of the show lends it weight in the minds of the audience.
Dr. Phil has a history of dubious ideas and utterances on gay and transgender people. On the one hand he's said that gay people aren't "sick", but on the other he's advocated that gay people go through Exodus, a religious right "reparative therapy" group, has called transsexuality a choice, and thinks trans and gay can be cured.
The man is dangerous.
For some background, here's a good article on him from MSN:
http://tv.msn.com/tv/celebrityfeature/dr-phil/?GT1=7703&silentchk=1 (http://tv.msn.com/tv/celebrityfeature/dr-phil/?GT1=7703&silentchk=1)
And a perspective from a mental health professional on the show itself:
http://www.sexualhealth.com/blog/?p=17 (http://www.sexualhealth.com/blog/?p=17)
~Simone.
Dr. Fool is at it again. Siding with the Immoral Majority again. What Cracker Jacks box did he get his degree out of. And who is the jerk talking, someone who knows what it is to be Transgendered? No it is another of those hate mongering right wing Christian idiots.
Obviously the guy with the glasses is a student of the Money/Zucker theory on gender. Of course, when someone comes on from a religious-based institution you can expect them to try to prove away what doesn't fit
Quote from: Janet Lynn on November 27, 2008, 02:40:01 AM
Dr. Fool is at it again. Siding with the Immoral Majority again. What Cracker Jacks box did he get his degree out of. And who is the jerk talking, someone who knows what it is to be Transgendered? No it is another of those hate mongering right wing Christian idiots.
Well said sister!
I love it when we make fun of Dr. Phil! (and it has nothing to do with his shows on transgender issues).
I am holding a memorial ceremony to mark the passing of the countless insects that were trapped by Dr. Phil's gaping maw as he walks from his house to his car. So many have been lost forever. :angel:
There will be cake in the foyer after the ceremony.
Be there or you're next >:(
I'll bring punch!
good idea. :)
Dr. Phil and the production crew of his show brought that FotF mouthpiece in to do Dr. Phil's dirty work. He's a surrogate for Dr. Phil.
And, yes, Dr. Phil shills for the 'Strict Father' nation-as-family-believing social fundamentalist movement. From what I could see in the YouTube video, the elements of the show were massively skewed to reinforce and defend that SternFatherFamily metaphor. And defense of SternFatherness at all costs is one of the highest virtues of SternFatherness.
BTW, have YOU written your e-mail to Dr. Phil's producer, challenging the premise and fairness of that premise of this show? I've heard that the producer is putting out feelers to the transgender community, looking for TG community representatives for an upcoming show. It's probably going to be another hit-piece...
Stephanie.granader@cbsparamount.com
Karen
Karen, I wrote them the following letter and yes I would go on if I could take off work. I hate show like this that are so GD wrong about everything.
QuoteDear Stephanie,
It is obvious that Dr. Phil and your show knows nothing about being Transgendered or Transsexual. You bring on these religious morons that are trying to remake the world in their image. What don't you have people who live with this everyday on. May be then you, Phil and the rest of the damn country might understand that we are not freaks or perverts. It very obvious that you don't care to show the truth and you can all rotten in hell.
And Yes I am a Male to female pre-operative Transsexual and all I want is to live my life without he hate that your show and other spews to the county. I would hate to be on your show because I could not get my mouth shut on how society treats people who are different with hate.
Janet O'Brien
My letter:
QuoteThe show titled Gender Confused Kids misrepresented transsexuality from the very title on.
I do NOT make a point of watching the Dr. Phil show. He is a personable supporter of the brand of conservatism that Professor of Cognitive Linguistics George Lakoff described as based on a 'Stern-Father Family' metaphor.
Dr. Phil may appear to moderate the 'two sides' of an issue to provide 'fairness', but the selection of Glenn Stanton of Focus on the Family, coupled with some rhetorical misdirection that suggested that he was a 'researcher' in more than name only, made sure the fix was in, and that the loyal 'Stern Father' conservative viewers would not have their preconceptions disabused. Dr. Phil could stand there and 'moderate', but, like a pro wrestling bout, who would ultimately win was never in doubt.
What would it do to ratings and revenue if you disappointed the fan base by disabusing their preconceptions with some facts like;
-The brains of gay men are structurally similar to straight women:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/jun/16/neuroscience.psychology (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/jun/16/neuroscience.psychology)
-A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v378/n6552/abs/378068a0.html (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v378/n6552/abs/378068a0.html)
-Prenatal Exposure to Diethylstilbestrol (DES) in Males and Gender-Related Disorders:
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/prenatal-exposure-diethylstilbestrol-des-134253671.html (http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/prenatal-exposure-diethylstilbestrol-des-134253671.html)
And that's just the start. Science trumps 'researcher' Glenn Stanton. But, there's a fan base to maintain, isn't there?
Karen Savage
Do you think they will ever get it into their heads. NO.
Thank you Karen and Janet. Both excellent letters. lets sock it to 'em!
Here's mine... its a bit long. Sorry ...
To whom it may concern,
I watched the show Dr. Phil did about transgendered children. I was extremely displeased with how one sided he was. In fact, I was extremely disturbed over the choice of the shows title "Gender Confused Children". Dr. Phil was extremely biased against the transgendered children and I even felt that during his interview with one of the children that he was trying to sway her or convince her that she was mistaken. I thought the job of a psychiatrist was to help people come to terms with their problems, not try and make them conform to his own personal beliefs.
The parents of the transgendered children, as well as the doctor that was on stage with them, were not given near the amount of talk time as the christian doctor from Focus on the Family.
Let me tell you about myself.
I am a 33 year old pre-op transsexual woman. I was born into an Apostolic Pentecostal home. My parents are extremely conservative. I grew up with out ever having a television in my home. I was never allowed to watch any type of movie no matter where I was. I was forced to wear very masculine clothes. I had to get my hair cut every two weeks and I was forbidden to play with anything feminine.
My earliest memory of being different was at age four. My mom would put me down for a nap in her room every day and as soon as she would leave the room I would get up and play in her cloths. There was a baby doll with a changeable face that she kept in one of her dresser drawers that I just loved to play with. My mother never caught me in her cloths but she did catch me with the doll and I was strictly reprimanded for playing with "girl things".
All through grade school I was fascinated with the various hair decorations that the girls wore and I wanted to be able to wear them too. I was never permitted to wear clothing the had any type of design on it and all colors had to be " non flashy". No pink, light blue, yellow, light green,...etc. I asked my mother on day around about first grade why I couldn't wear clothes with pictures on them. She told me very sternly that "that type of clothing was not for boys." I asked her why the other boys at school could wear them. She told me that I had to show an example to the other boys and dress the way Jesus wanted me to dress. I never asked her again. I sensed that the subject was not open for discussion.
I lived the boys life until I was fourteen years old. At fourteen I started feeling even stronger that my body was wrong somehow. One night, while bathing for bed, I noticed a small hair growing from my pubic area. I was disturbed, but I had been told that every one grows hair there. Then I noticed more hair under my arms and on my legs... I screamed!
My mom came running to she what was wrong then broke out laughing when I told her what was wrong. She sat me down later that night and told me that I was just becoming a man... it was natural. I felt like I had been hit in the stomach. I told her, " I don't wanna look like a monkey". She just laughed and said it's only natural that I grew hair. I asked her why she didn't have hair like that. She told me only boys grow body hair. I ran from them room crying " I don't wanna become a man!".
Later that year I had acquired some girls clothing that I kept hidden. One night, while wearing them, I was caught by both my mother and my father. They said I was possessed by a devil and one of them, I can't remember which, kept asking me if I was a ->-bleeped-<-ot. The punishment was severe and I convinced myself that I was cured. I never dressed again until I was age eighteen. I went through a vicious cycle of buying women's clothing every few weeks then getting rid of them out of fear and guilt.
For years after that my dad spent countless hundreds of dollars and days with me building tree houses and forts and bikes. He did his best to be a father to me and guide me on the path to manhood. I think he did a great job at it and I love him for it. He never abused me or mistreated me after that incident. He loved me as a father should love his son. He probably spent more time with me then he did with my two older brothers combined. He did his best.
At age twenty-one I was married and went into the ministry convinced that I was healed and delivered from my demons. I preached hellfire and brimstone and condemned homosexuality and effeminate men to hell. Every time I felt those urges rise up, I would lock myself in the church and throw myself upon the alter, crying out to God to deliver me from this devil. I cried and prayed so hard that I ruptured blood vessels in my cheeks and eyes and passed out from physical exhaustion. I lived that way until age twenty-seven and I just couldn't do it any more. I left the Pentecostal church and started sinking into a bottomless depression. I became verbally aggressive to my wife and started going into rages where I would throw things and punch holes in walls. I started seeing a therapist for anger and depression and after many months of that I was convinced that my GID was due to not being sexual satisfied with my wife.
We divorced and I went on a quest to find the woman that would "cure me". I though I found her but eight months into the relationship I knew it was all a mistake. I started to come to terms with my GID at age twenty-eight but I still lived in denial about the true nature of it. I got remarried to my current wife in April of 2007 and because I was still struggling with my feelings we almost divorced.
Finally after much soul searching I came to terms with what I am. I AM A WOMAN!!! I brought every thing out into the open with my wife who has now become my biggest supporter and friend. I started Counseling and hormone replacement therapy and I plan to undergo full SRS over the next three years.
I am happier now then I have ever been in my life. Even on my saddest days, they are not nearly as bad as the were before. I know what I am an I will continue to be who I am. My parents raised and nurtured me in the ways of manhood but in the end, the way I was born, the way my brain was formed in the womb, won out.
Don't tell me that I chose to be this way. Who in the world would want to live that way, always feeling that your body didn't match your mind? My parents did everything in their power to raise me as that crack pot from Focus on the Family said they should and guess what... IT DIDN'T WORK!!!
Nature vs Nurture? You do the math.
Quote from: Karen on November 27, 2008, 02:54:41 PM
Dr. Phil and the production crew of his show brought that FotF mouthpiece in to do Dr. Phil's dirty work. He's a surrogate for Dr. Phil.
And, yes, Dr. Phil shills for the 'Strict Father' nation-as-family-believing social fundamentalist movement. From what I could see in the YouTube video, the elements of the show were massively skewed to reinforce and defend that SternFatherFamily metaphor. And defense of SternFatherness at all costs is one of the highest virtues of SternFatherness.
BTW, have YOU written your e-mail to Dr. Phil's producer, challenging the premise and fairness of that premise of this show? I've heard that the producer is putting out feelers to the transgender community, looking for TG community representatives for an upcoming show. It's probably going to be another hit-piece...
Stephanie.granader@cbsparamount.com
Karen
Dr. Phil is a living, breathing argument for patricide! >:-)
Awesome Emme. Cami is so lucky to have you. And I wounder if Dr. Fool can feel the hate now. Like we feel all the time from the media.
Just out of curiousity, is his full name Phil I. Stine?
QuotePhil·is·tine (fl-stn, f-lstn, -tn)
n.
1. A member of an Aegean people who settled ancient Philistia around the 12th century b.c.
2.
a. A smug, ignorant, especially middle-class person who is regarded as being indifferent or antagonistic to artistic and cultural values.
b. One who lacks knowledge in a specific area.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Philistines (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Philistines)
I am lucky :D
I don't really hate the man, I just wish he would open his mind a bit.
I really can't say I hate him, just what he stand for. Ignorance, intolerance, bigotry, and hatred of people who are different.
lol! yeah Leiandra, I think the latter two were more likely.
The more attention the more advertisers pay.
Well the shock jocks and Springer capitalize on the average IQ.
I sincerely hope that Ms. Granader and Dr. Phil take our protests on board, but somehow I doubt it. For what it's worth, here's my letter to them:
QuoteDear Ms. Granader,
I was made aware of the Dr. Phil show on "Gender Confused Kids" through various blogs and forums I frequent. I was fortunate enough to be able to watch the show, which raised a number of concerns in mind.
I was unsure about writing this letter. I am not a US citizen - I'm actually from South Africa. But I am transsexed, and Dr. Phil is a very popular show here. We likely won't see this episode on our television screens for a year or two, but somewhere along the line it will reach our shores.
That was what finally did prompt me to write: The sheer reach and influence a show like Dr. Phil has. It is watched by millions of people worldwide, many of whom accept the information and opinions presented on the show as truth, unfiltered and unexamined. Of course, that's not just true of Dr. Phil - few people today take the time to educate themselves, to explore things.
And that's why I'm concerned. A show like Dr. Phil, in dealing with topics that have a deep, profound impact on people's lives, has a responsibility to present those topics objectively, factually, and most importantly sympathetically.
Further, the show is presented as science, the host a respected and well-loved mental-health professional. His words carry weight, as do his opinions. By presenting it as science, by speaking in his professional capacity as a therapist, both the show and Dr. McGraw himself have a duty to present the scientific consensus, and to present up to date research.
And yet, the show on "Gender Confused Kids" showed somewhat of a lack of that responsibility, starting with the title itself. Transgendered people are not confused, except insomuch as they are not allowed by others to be who their brains tell them to be. Research bears this out, especially with a flurry of findings being made public in the last 6-odd months.
And yet none of that evidence was presented, except here and there by Dr. Dan Segal. Sadly though Dr. Segal was given far less of a chance to speak than Dr. Stanton, who presented the rightwing conservative Christian point of view. Dr. Phil allowed Dr. Stanton to make a number of unsubstantiated claims and misrpresent various facts.
Dr. Phil also cites a statistic that less than 20% of children who question their gender grow up to identify as trans. That's still one in five people, and the statistic does not take into account that some of those people do later go on to be late transitioners, or have a homosexual orientation. More than that, citing the statistic out of context is in itself misleading. People have a fixed gender identity. They may question it, they may fight against it, but ultimately it is a part of who they are, and allowing them to explore various gender roles as young children is not going to suddenly turn them gay or trans. They are born gay or trans or they aren't.
Please understand that this is not just a question of respect. Transgender people are 16 times more likely to be murdered than the average person in America. They are targeted out of ignorance and fear. They die because of hate.
And beyond your shores, I live in a country where lesbian women and transitioning FtM men are still routinely subjected to "corrective rape", often before they are killed anyway, while gay men and MtF transgendered women are simply shot. Or beaten to death. Or stabbed 60, 70 times.
Dr. Phil has the potential to reach so many people's hearts, to make them stop and think before they judge, before they hate. Please, please don't neglect that opportunity and make us targets.
~Simone, South Africa.
~Simone.
Very good, Simone. May be one of us will get through his thick head.
Wow Simone, that was excellent! I had no Idea that things were that difficult there. Please take care of yourself over there.
Quote from: Ellieka on November 28, 2008, 07:33:27 AM
Wow Simone, that was excellent! I had no Idea that things were that difficult there. Please take care of yourself over there.
Thanks honey. I'm lucky to be fairly well off and educated ... privileged, so I get to go home to a relatively safe and secure environment. Unfortunately though ignorance and religious/ethnic bigotry are still powerful forces here, especially living in the townships or squatter camps in the poorer areas of the cities, or living out in the rural areas ... well yeah. there is still a LOT of work that needs to be done here. :(
~Simone.
Quote from: SarahR on November 27, 2008, 12:39:53 AM
Also, his argument was that at that age kids don't know about gender, their just kids, so we as parents have to guide them into their gender. What a load of BS! So does that mean that if you abandon a kid on the streets and he grows up with no parents that he's going to somehow drift into wanting to be a girl or something. His reasoning makes no sense at all.
Scientific research has show that infants distinguish gender routinely by 18 months of age. Of course what they need to be taught is that boys need to go out and work all day then come home and veg in front of the TV while the girl brings him a beer after cooking and cleaning all day. They figure teaching kids about gender is indoctrinating them with things like, "Wives, submit to your husband as unto the Lord."
I will be the happiest woman on earth when they cancel his show (along with Oprah's and Jerry Springer's) We're beyond BS here! >:(
tink :icon_chick:
as much as I hate the show, It actually helped me incredibly in the last few weeks. I recently came out to my parents, and obviously they are struggling to try and make sense of it all. I did my best to explain it, and gave them reading material. Now, my parents are intelligent people to begin with, but they still had a lot of the pre conceived notions etc. but they told me one thing that really helped WAS the Dr Phil show, where they just happened to catch an episode on TG issues. It may have even been the one posted. They had even commented they didnt like dr phil in general, but the actual knowledgeable guest they had on was good. I guess being intelligent people they were all but see thru all the BS and saw dr phil and his 'researcher' for exactly what they were: uniformed, unwilling to look at facts, and suggesting doing horrible things to the children. They said "seeing how wrong dr phil and the researcher were was obvious, and it sort of helped us to 'make sense' of your situation more"
I guess what I'm saying, is even tho the show had an obvious bias in the wrong direction, it still was able to reach some people for the better.
After that show aired, I was so angry, I canceled my subscription to Ladies' Home Journal -- and the reason why: merely because they put Dr. Phil on the cover of a recent issue. Hated to see that man's face in my home. Grrr.
Now we know how to handle you if you start to get out of control.
We'll just slip photos of Dr. Phil under your doors. heh heh >:-)
This has been posted before.
Former News Radio Staffer Spills the Beans on How Shock Jocks Inspire Hatred and Anger
http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/107326/ (http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/107326/)
The fact that people are upset is what they aim for. It will only insure much of the same.
Quote from: lisagurl on November 28, 2008, 02:04:53 PMThe fact that people are upset is what they aim for. It will only insure much of the same.
And therein may lie a strategy. What if a group of well-prepared, well-rehearsed trans-people were to get on the show, and then challenge the fundamentalist viewpoint and their lies on the LGBT community (http://antigayliesandliars.blogspot.com/), and present the current science fact on transsexualism AND the violence that has been waged for years on the LGBT (and specifically the trans) community.
The idea is to produce a memorable show for them while getting our story out there. If the show gets good ratings, producers may even try returning to that well again.
The trick is to be just edgy enough to stick up for 'our side' and be interesting without being so belligerent as to drive away that part of the audience who could be persuaded to take our side. A third of the population will never be persuaded that trans is anything but 'unnatural' etc..., and a third are already on our side. But there's that third that can be persuaded.
I'll stop here, before this post takes up the rest of the day... ::)
=K
Quote from: Karen on November 28, 2008, 06:01:25 PM
... A third of the population will never be persuaded that trans is anything but 'unnatural' etc..., and a third are already on our side. But there's that third that can be persuaded.
The only difficulty I see, Karen, with your very good idea and well-formed plan is that initial one-third you mention comprises about 80% of Mr. Phil's audience.
I imagine the third you're aiming for doesn't watch late afternoon tv like Mr. Phill and Oprah. And if his show airs in the morning my guess would be that prolly 90% of his audience would be in that initial one-third.
You'd prolly have to work it so Mr. Phil gets a prime-time special on TS/TG to reach much of that final one-third you're aiming to catch.
Nichole
don't forget that phil's folks can edit the show to appear any way they want it to.
Personally I have a problem with the whole idea of Dr. Phil creating a version of reality by which people are judging their lives. How many complexes is he creating in young people and children because their parents are not raising them the way Dr. Phil thinks they should. Yes we should try and find ways to interrelate with each other that are not violent and manipulative. We should seek out help when problems overwhelm us. But our answers depend upon who are and who we seek out for help. But Dr. Phil's shows are scripted and censored by lawyers, and hand picked psychologists who just happen to write books. How many of our lives have these resources? Do we really want people who sell their ideas and have to defend them to tell us how to live? Is their a Dr. Phil answer for every problem in life? Should all of our lives be guided by the wisdom of Dr. Phil? Does he rate up there with Plato and Socrates?
I think we know that answers to all these questions. I don't think Dr. Phil is the alpha and the omega of all wisdom? Do you?
NOPE!
I think hes a moron.
Quote from: Nichole on November 28, 2008, 07:59:43 PM
The only difficulty I see, Karen, with your very good idea and well-formed plan is that initial one-third you mention comprises about 80% of Mr. Phil's audience.
With good theater and YouTube, it may be possible to get something out. Just look how that bit with the FotF 'researcher' made it out. And that generates interest. in the parts that aren't Dr. Phil's core demographic.
Here is an EXTREME example of guerrilla messaging in a hostile environment. I'm not saying Dr Phil would be anything like this, but in a mildly hostile environment and against editing you can get one or two messages out, if you provide the producers the coin of the TV realm, ENTERTAINMENT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IwIRNM5noY&ftm=18 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IwIRNM5noY&ftm=18)
=K
I remember that interview. It made me angry. I stopped watching talk shows indiscriminately after seeing that.
I heard Murdoch is actually embarrassed by his own network. I don't know if that's true, but I can understand why.
Wow, I never knew that how bad Dr. Phil really was. When I first saw him on TV I felt an immediate dislike for him for some reason. I knew I didn't like him at all so I just ignored everything Dr. Phil related. Just wow...
I found the whole show on YouTube. Here's the link to the topic I posted:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,50388.msg311193.html#msg311193 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,50388.msg311193.html#msg311193)
It's good to see the whole thing in context.
=K
Quote from: Karen on November 29, 2008, 02:05:00 AM
Quote from: Nichole on November 28, 2008, 07:59:43 PM
The only difficulty I see, Karen, with your very good idea and well-formed plan is that initial one-third you mention comprises about 80% of Mr. Phil's audience.
With good theater and YouTube, it may be possible to get something out. Just look how that bit with the FotF 'researcher' made it out. And that generates interest. in the parts that aren't Dr. Phil's core demographic.
Here is an EXTREME example of guerrilla messaging in a hostile environment. I'm not saying Dr Phil would be anything like this, but in a mildly hostile environment and against editing you can get one or two messages out, if you provide the producers the coin of the TV realm, ENTERTAINMENT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IwIRNM5noY&ftm=18 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IwIRNM5noY&ftm=18)
=K
Wait... Why are susans.org people watching Fox again? Remind me.
I mean. Thats like sticking your head in the toilet. Its the same result everytime, so why analyze the contents when they never fail the negative?
Quote from: Lisbeth on November 28, 2008, 11:41:32 AM
They figure teaching kids about gender is indoctrinating them with things like, "Wives, submit to your husband as unto the Lord."
Thanks to Natasha for pointing this one out:
http://reformationfaithtoday.com/2008/11/29/gender-roles-in-the-church/ (http://reformationfaithtoday.com/2008/11/29/gender-roles-in-the-church/)
"...48% of Californians recently voting against Proposition 8 which upholds a biblical view of marriage. The reason for this confusion, in part, is because churches have caved in on teaching the distinctive roles for men and women, boys and girls. Which has, in principle, left them weak on the biblical prohibition against homosexuality...
Women learning in quietness and submissiveness means at least that Paul thinks it is good for women to learn. But the main point for Paul is the submissive attitude women must model. Verse 12 teaches the same quietness of verse 11. There is a quietness God requires and provides in women that quells any impulse to usurp spiritual authority from a man. Women can teach women and children."
--Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood