Okay, first of all, I had Microsoft Office 2003 but everytime I open up a document, my laptop decides that's not good enough and opens it in Microsoft Office 2007 which is just a trial. So that's confusing in and of itself.
But no matter because I really don't understand either one of them!
I use Microsoft Works. Microsoft Works is easy to write in so why the hell do all my school assignments have to come in Office 2007?
Okay so here I am following along, doing my assignment, and Word 2007 decides it's going to bold the header I just made. I don't want it bolded. Then it decides the footer is going to be a zillion spaces from the margin and I keep undoing but it just won't let me place it where I need to freaking place it! And what's worse, it won't let me choose both font face and size at the same time. I want TimesNewRoman in 12pt. But apparently, if I want 12pt, I have to do Arial because the second I switch to 12pt from 14pt in TimesNewRoman, it pops me back to Arial. WTF?
I've spent the last 3 days trying to learn Powerpoint 2007. But no matter how many tutorials I run through, I still don't know how to make a halfway presentable presentation.
*sigh* What ever happened to good old fashioned paper assignments? I'm just so hopelessly,technologically challenged.
Okay. Just had to get that out.
Hi nero
your not alone on word, its like it remembers thing's in the global template i.e the bolding, underlining and font size type and change on certain lines.
The one way i got around this at work was to make a whole new template, go through each line looking for changes and saving the page afterwards and link it to my desktop and open that instead. It's not a final fix as they creep back into your work over time but its worth doing if your getting many corrections.
Its always done that for as long as ive ever done PA work and i dont think they ever will fix it.
Two words, Nero: Open Office.
I prefer WordPerfect, but that is beside the point. I prefer Dos versions.
As for some of your formatting issues, go into Options and turn Off the autoformatting options.
Sarah L.
YES! I HATE Microsloth too!
Here's what I did about it:
1.) Ditched M$ Windblows and went with Ubuntu Linux (http://www.ubuntu.com)
2.) Started using OpenOffice (http://openoffice.org)
Both are free and, now this is my opinion... not trying to start a debate, one hundred times better then any Microsuck product.
I can do everything and more on my Linux operating system that I did on Windoz 2K/XP incuding playing games like World of Warcraft, Empire Earth... Heck I can even run some M$ apps if I wanted too. I surf the web, email, watch DVDs...
Oh yeah I love it! Here's some screen shots of of my desktop with some neat special effects like cubed display.
Screenshot 1 (http://www.rclements.com/priv/cami/ss1.png)
Screenshot 2 (http://www.rclements.com/priv/cami/ss2.png)
Screenshot 3 (http://www.rclements.com/priv/cami/ss3.png)
Quote from: Sarah Louise on December 03, 2008, 05:04:31 PM
As for some of your formatting issues, go into Options and turn Off the autoformatting options.
Sarah L.
You see thats why i need to just admit defeat and go blond :P
I didnt even know that, thank you sarah.
My computer took a dump so I had my brother install a new hard drive and programs. It now has Office 2007 on it. I hate it. I can't find half the stuff in word or excel like I used to be able to , I struggled thru power point yesterday, taking several hours to do something that should have taken half an hour and 2007 Access is pure torture. I really wish I could have the older version back. I started school again and not only have I been having to learn new stuff this semester but also learn how to use the programs all over again. Frustrating as heck.
Myles
I'd suppose not overly viable, but typing whatever in notepad and then pasting it into word might work a touch less annoying although I am not sure. Wordpad may be an option for this matter as it may include your formatting. Given you mentioned works I'd suppose that would be the same notion as well if it works at all; Write your stuff, format as you want, copy & past into word (I presume the professor wants word documents?) an perhaps that will retain your formatting. Sadly I am unsure however.
For those recomending open ofice, beware, MS Office does not always mange to open them.
Quote from: Leslie Ann on December 03, 2008, 09:37:01 PM
For those recomending open ofice, beware, MS Office does not always mange to open them.
If it worries you you can always save things as a MS word document within open office.
I like open office too. But really it seems pretty much the same as microsoft stuff to me. But I do hate auto formating in word.
Quote from: Nicky on December 04, 2008, 07:04:38 PM
Quote from: Leslie Ann on December 03, 2008, 09:37:01 PM
For those recomending open ofice, beware, MS Office does not always mange to open them.
If it worries you you can always save things as a MS word document within open office.
I like open office too. But really it seems pretty much the same as microsoft stuff to me. But I do hate auto formating in word.
What you save in Open Office, may not be able to be opened by MS Office is the very problem.
For a student this can mean a failed assignment.
Just save it in .doc format. I've never had a problem.
Quote from: Ellieka on December 04, 2008, 07:14:07 PM
Just save it in .doc format. I've never had a problem.
exactly. When you say 'save as' you can save the type as a MS word doc (among other things).
I'm actually surprised students arn't sending PDF's or .rtf files (rich text files) these days.
One word: Apple.
Quote from: tekla on December 04, 2008, 07:50:30 PM
One word: Apple.
Can't say that I am that fond of Macs, but then this is simply a familiarity thing.
Never was either, until I used one for a year, so much easier, far fewer real gliches, and the low number of viruses and spywear and the rest is just a bonus.
I second Tekla's comments about Macs. I've used them for years, with no problem. They can co-exist with Windoz boxes in an office network. They're naturally immune to viruses. They can run for months at a time without having to be rebooted. And there's a unix CLI underneath when I want it.
However, that's the operating system. You still have to cope with a word processing application. I admit that I do use MS Office 2008 (mac version of 2007). I've tried Open Office, but it didn't seem any easier to use.
Here's one tip for dealing with autoformating/autocorrection: If you hit control-Z (undo) immediately after Word's idiot-savant "fixes" something you typed, it will put it back the way it was.
BTW, my pet autoformat peeve is the way Word, by default, turns anything that looks like a url or an email address into a hyperlink. How often do I get those right the first time? And do you know how many hoops I have to jump through to turn it into text that I can edit? What a pain!
On the other hand, it is handy when Word automatically changes "teh" into "the".
I'm a one person cult of word processing programs. I remember WordStar, and AmiPro (BTW, the best WP program ever - from Lotus, 'natch). I remember when Word was not even accepted, WordPerfect was THE format. But Word won out, for no real reason other than everyone had it. But the simple Apple WP is easy, does what I want, and its 'free' with the system. I've never had a problem with it, and it converts documents to whatever format I want with almost zero trouble. It rocks. It lacks a lot of the B&W stuff Word has, but how much do you ever use that stuff anyway? Never in my case. As long as it can write lots of text, with footnotes and endnotes, (and do it as well as Bella Notre did, the first academic WP) then I'm happy.
Quote from: tekla on December 05, 2008, 10:04:32 PM
I'm a one person cult of word processing programs. I remember WordStar, and AmiPro (BTW, the best WP program ever - from Lotus, 'natch). I remember when Word was not even accepted, WordPerfect was THE format. But Word won out, for no real reason other than everyone had it. But the simple Apple WP is easy, does what I want, and its 'free' with the system. I've never had a problem with it, and it converts documents to whatever format I want with almost zero trouble. It rocks. It lacks a lot of the B&W stuff Word has, but how much do you ever use that stuff anyway? Never in my case. As long as it can write lots of text, with footnotes and endnotes, (and do it as well as Bella Notre did, the first academic WP) then I'm happy.
The other reason Word won out was that WP didn't upgrade from 5 (DOS based) to 6 (with nifty and pretty windows things) forever. In the meantime, Word took over. Of the two, Wordperfect is a much better program, if just for the reveal codes function so you can clean up formatting crap that happens. I've never found an easy way to do that in Word. Fortunately, I don't have to share documents with anyone else, so I can continue to use Wordperfect.
Dennis
Quote from: tekla on December 05, 2008, 10:04:32 PM
I'm a one person cult of word processing programs. I remember WordStar, and AmiPro (BTW, the best WP program ever - from Lotus, 'natch). I remember when Word was not even accepted, WordPerfect was THE format. But Word won out, for no real reason other than everyone had it. But the simple Apple WP is easy, does what I want, and its 'free' with the system. I've never had a problem with it, and it converts documents to whatever format I want with almost zero trouble. It rocks. It lacks a lot of the B&W stuff Word has, but how much do you ever use that stuff anyway? Never in my case. As long as it can write lots of text, with footnotes and endnotes, (and do it as well as Bella Notre did, the first academic WP) then I'm happy.
*Snicker* Gotcha beat: When I started, troff, eqn and pic were the standards. There was no "WYSIWYG." I still miss them. I could do things with them that I still can't do with Word, or Illustrator, or InDesign. Yes, they exist on macs, but I haven't figured out how to get them to generate output that a printer will accept.
Apple's TextEdit is great for some stuff, and you can't beat the price. I hadn't realized that it can read & write Word files. Thanks for that tip!
Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, TextEdit doesn't support named styles very well. I learned a long time ago, never format individual paragraphs. Instead I define a style for that paragraph's function, and tag all such paragraphs with that style, so I can globally change the style later on. Unless I missed something, TextEdit lets me define styles, but when I tag a 'graph with a style, TextEdit uses the current definition of the style, and doesn't associate the paragraph with that style. As a result, I can't use styles to defer or change formatting decisions, which makes them much less useful.
Also, apparently TextEdit can't open encrypted docx files.
Yeah, I had to download something to convert from Word files, but it came with the machine, well I still had to download it, it just didn't cost me anything.
I never quite got why the uber programs beat out the specific ones, why Word or WordPerfect had to be the the program for everyone, casual writers, screenplay writers, legal writers, academic writers, when there were a bunch of early programs that were specific that never quite made it. The advantage was that they did only what you wanted, and not a million other things too. The used to be a program just for writing scripts that worked well for that.
And I remember the WP on my Tandy Trash 80 - with the spell check on a separate cassette (this is pre floppy disks, yow). Bad memories that one.
And I'm down by law with Dennis, that reveal codes is killer, and needed. Needed far more often than most of their other stuff ever is.
I actually haven't had trouble with Office 2007. I used to use OpenOffice & LyX, but when I bought a copy of Office 2007 Enterprise for $20 through my company, I fell in love with it.
I almost don't care what you throw in front of me. If it gives me trouble, I just go and disable all of it's great 'features'.
I remember I used wordperfect 6 briefly before having to move on. I opened the program and was making special little documents with crazy watermarks in no time. Later when I had to use to use Word, it took me years to get easy with it. Especially when each version is different from the previous. They don't just add features, they mysteriously know which ones I like and remove them from the next release.
I just picked up on named styles and created a custom set for my screen writing project.
My stupid job requires that I understand what the users are babbling about when they call me with their insanity.
Quote from: Rebis on December 07, 2008, 10:30:33 PM
My stupid job requires that I understand what the users are babbling about when they call me with their insanity.
Sounds like my job. "Our modem is broken" = A cash register has locked up.
I just hate Microsoft Period....
They spend all their time producing slow badly written software, that tries to tell you what to do...
And why, oh why, bring out incompatible ".docx " files when the world was running on ".doc" (windows keeps thinking they are Excel files)?
I think it's great that the corporate users have stood up to them, and told them to keep XP until at least summer 2009, and dump Vista by 2010 .....Way to go Guys! (and it's not often I say that about Corps')
Chrissty
I'm no fan of MicroSloth, but ".docx" is a good thing. Unlike .doc, it's an open, publicly documented file format. Basically a .docx is a gzip'd archive. Your document is an XML file in the archive, and each paragraph is a <p> tag. If you've used named styles for your paragraph types ("heading", "body", "quote", etc), a paragraph attribute gives the style name. If you've inserted images, they're other files in the archive.
As a result, 20 years from now, when MicroSoft is history, you can easily extract the data from your .docx file and convert it to some other format. It might not be formatted exactly the same, but at least you won't have to re-type the thing. On the other hand, a .doc file will probably just be a bag of useless bytes.
That's the real problem with most word processing systems: They hold your document hostage by keeping it in a proprietary format.
I doubt that Microsoft switched to an open format out of the goodness of their hearts. I think various governments demanded an open format they could use for long-term document retention.
Quote from: Kaitlyn on December 08, 2008, 01:00:18 AM
Quote from: Rebis on December 07, 2008, 10:30:33 PM
My stupid job requires that I understand what the users are babbling about when they call me with their insanity.
Sounds like my job. "Our modem is broken" = A cash register has locked up.
That's the gibberish I have to listen to.
Quote from: MarySue on December 08, 2008, 11:48:46 AM
As a result, 20 years from now, when MicroSoft is history, you can easily extract the data from your .docx file and convert it to some other format.
how do you know those flabheads will be gone? They're insidious like leaches, deerticks, and malaria. They could be around for all eternity making the lives of our great grandchildren so miserable that I can now predict with confidence that mass suicide will become fashionable.
Quote from: Rebis on December 08, 2008, 11:59:11 AM
Quote from: MarySue on December 08, 2008, 11:48:46 AM
As a result, 20 years from now, when MicroSoft is history, you can easily extract the data from your .docx file and convert it to some other format.
how do you know those flabheads will be gone? They're insidious like leaches, deerticks, and malaria. They could be around for all eternity making the lives of our great grandchildren so miserable that I can now predict with confidence that mass suicide will become fashionable.
Wishful thinking, of course! Maybe if we all say it often enough .....
Seriously, though, Microsoft, like most software vendors, has a big problem. They need updates to survive. If they can't get people to pony up for a new version every year or two, they'll die, or at least shrink dramatically. They're like book or magazine publishers. Unlike a hardware manufacturer, they can't survive by selling the same product over and over again.
So far, Microsoft has made out like bandits because new computers, and new software, require the latest Windows. But that won't go on forever. We're already seeing resistance to Vista, right?
And in case you weren't aware, the vast majority of web servers and the like use PC hardware, but they run Linux or another Unix variant.
I used to use Linux for our proxy server at work. I made an attempt to convert more of our network to linux, but I was refused. The manglement can't conceive of anything other than windows. Thankfully, the wizard who trained me had already snuck netware in before microsoft became known for server software.
But we is microsofted now. caught in a snare, entrapped, waiting for our next miserable experience to shake us to the core.
Yuck! And paying $1000 (or whatever) extra for a Microsloth server license doesn't faze them?
My condolences.
I think Microsoft is where IBM was 30, maybe 35 years ago. Back then, nobody got fired for buying an IBM mainframe. But minicomputers were coming up, and you could see the handwriting on the wall, if you knew where to look. I suspect Microsoft will exist 20-30 years from now, but I hope they won't be the 800 lb gorilla they are today.
when my home systems finally are inadequate, I'm going to go apple on one and linux on the other.
I used to use OS2. That was years ahead of windows, but IBM must have been run by crack addicts at the time.
No, I think that a lot of OS2 was farmed out to Microsoft who had an interest in their system being better.
Quote from: MarySue on December 08, 2008, 11:48:46 AM
I'm no fan of MicroSloth, but ".docx" is a good thing. Unlike .doc, it's an open, publicly documented file format. Basically a .docx is a gzip'd archive. ....
As a result, 20 years from now, when MicroSoft is history, you can easily extract the data from your .docx file and convert it to some other format. It might not be formatted exactly the same, but at least you won't have to re-type the thing. On the other hand, a .doc file will probably just be a bag of useless bytes.
*stunned* :icon_flamed:..well Mr Gates made big mistake with that one....way too friendly.....I'll stand corrected!
But I'm sure I heard tha Vista has already been canned for Microsoft 7 in 2010, or am I wrong with that too?
Chrissty (Certified Computer non-Geek)
I think Gates better have the next product perfect, and I mean PERFECT, or else its gonna be the last thing they release. If people still perfer the older system to VISTA, and hell, I like 2000 just fine, works for me, but they are toast.
I understand Mr Gates may be eating Humble Pie rather than Christmas Pudding this year, and MS7 beta may be as early as Summer next year to the "big boys".
They are saying a lot of the Vista rubbish has been dumped to speed the system back up, and stop the crashes.
Chrissty (Certified Computer non-Geek)
(...actually I used to program in Basic and Fortan 4...sad eh?)
Nah, the only program I ever learned to program in was LOGO, LOL. I got that turtle moving I'll tell 'ya that!
U know...
I just realised I actually miss making all those Christmas decorations from different coloured punched tapes this time of year (oh! The Seasonal rattle of the teleprinter...), giving the kids the old "Billion Dollar Brain" mag tapes to tie Grandad's legs to the armchair when he fell asleap,.... and not forgetting those handy old disposable punched cards for scraping the ice of the car windscreen.....
Them were the days when a computer was something to be admired...A single program could dim the lights on a small town when processing....... !
Hey I had an office right above where the Atanasoff-Berry Computer was constructed, who you talking to?
First PC I ever owned was a Vic 20. A few years later I got the Commodore 128/64. God I mis them machines. I think I still have my old C128 in my parents attic...
I love legacy hardware! I have an old Pentium Pro running PFsense for my home network. The things wicked fast too!
My biggest problem, but by no means my only problem, with M$ is the ridiculous restrictive license and the price tag that goes with it. $7000 for Microsoft Small Business Server with 5 client licenses compared to $0 for Just about any Linux Distro with no restrictions?
Ubuntu Linux for life for me.
They would seem to be pricing themselves out of the small business market - hey, ain't that what IBM done did?
Yep, I'm a small businessperson and there's no way I can afford MS Office 2007 professional, and they cut the calendar out of the lower priced versions, so I'll keep using 2003. My new comp came with Vista and, seeing it's for the office, I don't mind it, but if I get a new gaming rig, it's gonna have xp on it.
Dennis
Quote from: Chrissty on December 08, 2008, 04:44:39 PM
U know...
I just realised I actually miss making all those Christmas decorations from different coloured punched tapes this time of year (oh! The Seasonal rattle of the teleprinter...), giving the kids the old "Billion Dollar Brain" mag tapes to tie Grandad's legs to the armchair when he fell asleap,.... and not forgetting those handy old disposable punched cards for scraping the ice of the car windscreen.....
Them were the days when a computer was something to be admired...A single program could dim the lights on a small town when processing....... !
I missed the paper tape generation: I went from programming IBM/360 mainframes with punched cards to PDP11's with 300 baud terminals (anyone remember daisy wheels?). Remember when 256k of core memory (and I do mean CORE!) was big? And a 20 meg disk was the size of a washing machine?
But using punched cards as ice scrapers? Where did you live, Chrissty? Every place I've been, the ice has been tougher than the cards. Or did you have steel cards??
Incidentally, card chaf was a wonderful thing. It had so many uses! Put it in a water balloon, add some soap ... Bam! When that hit your victim, it turned into paper mache. And large computer centers recycled their chaf in the cafeteria, as hamburger helper.
Ah, the good old days .... When Bill Gates was still stuck at Harvard, and life was a beautiful thing. :)
Yeah, that's mighty light ice, in the Midwest you had to get down and chisel it off.
Quote from: MarySue on December 09, 2008, 10:18:03 AM
But using punched cards as ice scrapers? Where did you live, Chrissty? Every place I've been, the ice has been tougher than the cards. Or did you have steel cards??
Actually your right, thinking about it..... it was a sort of plastic card that was used as a program pack divider I used to use, not the cardbord ones, and they only ever worked on the thinner ice over here in the UK...
Quote from: tekla on December 08, 2008, 04:14:12 PM
I think Gates better have the next product perfect, and I mean PERFECT, or else its gonna be the last thing they release. If people still perfer the older system to VISTA, and hell, I like 2000 just fine, works for me, but they are toast.
Won't matter, that is the beauty of his ideals
'Don't make people want you, make them need you."
Companies are too invested in MS, and people know it too well. No matter how bad it is, people will be forced into buying it, just as they are new forced into buying Vista.
I wouldn't count on MS going away anytime soon but it is likely that Xp was their peak.
But they were not - or found a way around - taking Vista. Lots of people in the Bay Area (sort of a geek hotbed) were offering new computers with XP as an added bonus. When your last product is a 'bonus' so you don't have to use the new one, your not that many more 'new products' away from the end of the line.
What we're finding out these days is that no one is so big they can't fail.
every time I order a computer for our company, I get it with XP.
Yesterday, some poor staples kid was telling me vista is good. I should have told him to try installing Netware Networking clients on it. I don't have to do that anymore. But when I did, the experience was GRUEsome.
Quote from: Leslie Ann on December 10, 2008, 06:12:08 AM
Quote from: tekla on December 08, 2008, 04:14:12 PM
I think Gates better have the next product perfect, and I mean PERFECT, or else its gonna be the last thing they release. If people still perfer the older system to VISTA, and hell, I like 2000 just fine, works for me, but they are toast.
Won't matter, that is the beauty of his ideals
'Don't make people want you, make them need you."
Companies are too invested in MS, and people know it too well. No matter how bad it is, people will be forced into buying it, just as they are new forced into buying Vista.
I wouldn't count on MS going away anytime soon but it is likely that Xp was their peak.
Ah, but they're
not forced to buy the latest version of Windows. Example: Suppose you have an XP license. That entitles you to run XP on one computer. When you decide to get a new computer, you get a "bare PC" (no pre-installed op sys). You de-register the old one's XP license, install XP on the new one, and re-register.
Net revenue to MS: $0.
People haven't done that in the past because they don't know about it, or it's easier to get a computer with the new OS, or a new computer (or new apps) won't run the old OS. But as time goes on, that will change. If customers resist going to Vista, computer manufacturers, and app writers, will make sure their products run on XP ... or Win/2k ... or even Win/98.
Oh to go back to that 486 with the Win95 platform. It's gonna go down as the Model T, the DC-6, the Zippo lighter of computers. I had that sucker running for years and years, with nary a problem.
I think people upgrade the entire deal because a) in the past just upgrading the OS didn't work all that well, if at all, and b) they don't want the new OS, they could care less about the new OS, they want the hot new graphics card with the amount of memory and clock speed to handle it.
For myself, and this is about WP programs to begin with, I would never (nor would almost anyone not publishing some newspaper or mag) need anymore WP power than that (486/95) had in it. I wrote my thesis, dissertation and did my graduate record exams on one, it was fine.
It was really the gamers and graphics people (digital photography included) that drove everything since then.
Yeah, I pretty well only upgrade for gaming and the only reason I'd thought of vista was for DX10, but meh, I wouldn't bother now. Really all I upgrade is my hardware. I'm not interested in 'upgrading' software if it works fine.
Anything since 3.1 has been fine with me. 3.1 was a bit of a pain in the butt because you had to manage your own IRQ's and stuff whenever you installed new hardware, and I do remember chasing conflicts all over the place.
Dennis
I just hate Microsoft all together!
Quote from: MarySue on December 10, 2008, 11:36:18 AM
Quote from: Leslie Ann on December 10, 2008, 06:12:08 AM
Quote from: tekla on December 08, 2008, 04:14:12 PM
I think Gates better have the next product perfect, and I mean PERFECT, or else its gonna be the last thing they release. If people still perfer the older system to VISTA, and hell, I like 2000 just fine, works for me, but they are toast.
Won't matter, that is the beauty of his ideals
'Don't make people want you, make them need you."
Companies are too invested in MS, and people know it too well. No matter how bad it is, people will be forced into buying it, just as they are new forced into buying Vista.
I wouldn't count on MS going away anytime soon but it is likely that Xp was their peak.
Ah, but they're not forced to buy the latest version of Windows. Example: Suppose you have an XP license. That entitles you to run XP on one computer. When you decide to get a new computer, you get a "bare PC" (no pre-installed op sys). You de-register the old one's XP license, install XP on the new one, and re-register.
Net revenue to MS: $0.
People haven't done that in the past because they don't know about it, or it's easier to get a computer with the new OS, or a new computer (or new apps) won't run the old OS. But as time goes on, that will change. If customers resist going to Vista, computer manufacturers, and app writers, will make sure their products run on XP ... or Win/2k ... or even Win/98.
Most people are unaware you can do this, and many manufacturers refuse. Take them to court... In the end you you get $50.
Most newer components from Intel and HP do not support Win98. It can be done if you know what drivers are compatible with what, but not always.
Quote from: tekla on December 10, 2008, 09:55:42 AM
But they were not - or found a way around - taking Vista. Lots of people in the Bay Area (sort of a geek hotbed) were offering new computers with XP as an added bonus. When your last product is a 'bonus' so you don't have to use the new one, your not that many more 'new products' away from the end of the line.
What we're finding out these days is that no one is so big they can't fail.
The pressure is on for companies to stop selling Xp and despite the publicity, only about 1% of my customers have bothered and then only when I tell them they can. Vista = shiny.
MS has one of the biggest cash reserves in history. Most people are unaware that for a long time now, they have pocketed 10% of their income just to ride out the hard times, this is on top of what they reserve for legal fees and such. I have no idea if it is true, but last I heard they had $60 billion in liquid assets alone. While that may not be a lot for a company like GM to operate on, we are talking about a software company. I believe they said 12 people initially wrote OSX. MS could quickly scale back and still do what they do without any problem. It's primarily a software company, it can be run from a closet.
Even then, Apple may garner 10% of new computer sales, but much of that is the public, not corporations. If MS cuts of Xp support, which can be done in a little more than 2 years time (10 year support cycle), no major company will switch from PC to Apple. It costs too much to change out everything. Like Bill said, make them need you.
Besides, if things got bad, they can always buy into another company.
Besides, if things got bad, they can always buy into another company.
I'm sure that's the way this song ends.
And I'm not going to say anything bad about Bill. He was smart, he knew innovation and incorporated it (even if he didn't invent it) and both made and changed history. Not a minor deal. But he's not running the day to day anymore, he's not overseeing the writing of the OS like he once did, and life is a whole lot different now in the biz then when he invented it. Kind of like Henry Ford in a way.
Yesterday, for the first time ever, A virus slipped by me and trashed some of my windows system files. I blew some hours fixing it, but it's still got problems.
So, today, it occurred to me that I may as well just install Linux. I can get it for free. The apps I use mostly on that system are opensource like GIMP and openoffice which have Linux versions.
Goodbye microstink. Now you'll have to spend your time screwing me over on my second system. So, come and get me!
Quote from: Rebis on December 11, 2008, 12:38:15 PM
Yesterday, for the first time ever, A virus slipped by me and trashed some of my windows system files. I blew some hours fixing it, but it's still got problems.
So, today, it occurred to me that I may as well just install Linux. I can get it for free. The apps I use mostly on that system are opensource like GIMP and openoffice which have Linux versions.
Goodbye microstink. Now you'll have to spend your time screwing me over on my second system. So, come and get me!
Welcome to the dark side Rebis!
We have pie >:-)
What Distro do you plan on using?
Quote from: Rebis on December 11, 2008, 12:38:15 PM
Yesterday, for the first time ever, A virus slipped by me and trashed some of my windows system files. I blew some hours fixing it, but it's still got problems.
n00b ;)
Quote from: Cami on December 11, 2008, 12:43:34 PM
Welcome to the dark side Rebis!
We have pie >:-)
What Distro do you plan on using?
Distro? That's just an archaic word for
Ubuntu, right? ;D
Quote from: Kaitlyn on December 11, 2008, 01:06:41 PM
Distro? That's just an archaic word for Ubuntu, right? ;D
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rclements.com%2Fpriv%2Fcami%2Fubuntu_logo.gif&hash=3e337e7c2a3b586f778330f465990224aef19bfc)
I admit, I'm biased.
Quote from: tekla on December 10, 2008, 12:20:22 PM
For myself, and this is about WP programs to begin with, I would never (nor would almost anyone not publishing some newspaper or mag) need anymore WP power than that (486/95) had in it. I wrote my thesis, dissertation and did my graduate record exams on one, it was fine.
It was really the gamers and graphics people (digital photography included) that drove everything since then.
Unfortunately, bloatware WP programs, like Word, also suck up a lot of cycles, particularly if you enable the on-the-fly WYSISWYG interface.
BTW, the page layout programs used for magazine publishing, particularly for large-format color mags with fancy graphics and high res photos, also suck up a lot of cycles. Look at the pages in Architectural Digest, Vogue, and so on. Those programs routinely import multiple 30 meg images, and have many of the features found in image and vector editing programs (layers, blending modes, transparency, effects, etc).
Quote from: Cami on December 11, 2008, 12:43:34 PM
Quote from: Rebis on December 11, 2008, 12:38:15 PM
Yesterday, for the first time ever, A virus slipped by me and trashed some of my windows system files. I blew some hours fixing it, but it's still got problems.
So, today, it occurred to me that I may as well just install Linux. I can get it for free. The apps I use mostly on that system are opensource like GIMP and openoffice which have Linux versions.
Goodbye microstink. Now you'll have to spend your time screwing me over on my second system. So, come and get me!
Welcome to the dark side Rebis!
We have pie >:-)
What Distro do you plan on using?
Hi,
I don't know yet. I've used Red Hat and Suse and two others. I usually just grab the first thing, although, now that Suse is owned by Novell, I'm interested to see what tweaks they may have added.
I've heard of Ubuntu. Why do people like it more than others?
I would have to say for me it is because its built on Debian And the huge repository that you can install from just by doing
sudo apt-get install "what_ever_title"
Install is a breeze and its pretty much ready to use right out of the box. You have a really easy to understand and use GUI as well as the full power of the CLI.
I run our family media center of of Ubuntu 8.10, 8.04 for my desktop.
I also use Ubuntu Server for my LAMP, email, and DNS servers.
Now if I could just get Emme to switch ....
Thanks.
Maybe I'll try Ubuntu.
I've used linux and even ran a server or two with it, but I've never really gotten acquainted with it. It's like I was always rushing to get something working then moving on to something else.
Isn't that how it goes? lol, no time to play with it, just get it going.
I guess what finally made me switch was when I went to upgrade form win2k to XP Pro. The upgrade totally trashed my box and it took me hours to recover my files. It was so messed up I couldn't even access the drive from another windows install. Ironically when I popped in my Ubuntu live CD the problematic drive mounted right away.
I've never went back.
Ubuntu is the most popular distro right now, which is reason enough to choose it. It's got more effort going into it than anything else, and that's really important for hardware compatibility and out-of-the-box usability.
Although, I have to disagree with the people who say it's ready for the desktop - I'd never expect that my grandmother could find her way around it, even just for email and web browsing. Web media is geared for Windows (or Mac), and the plugin & extension support for Linux browsers just isn't there.
Running dual boot XP/Kubuntu.
Gaming and graphics happens on XP, Internet and music happens on Kubuntu.
If I could port a few games to Linux, I'd probably only ever use XP for my artwork.
The thing about Windows is that it's got a ton of features that Linux just doesn't have - and I'm talking about really geeky stuff, things that even power users wouldn't be aware of. The problem is that this stuff is seen as bloat by people who don't need it or who aren't aware of it.
The modular services architecture, the Windows Installer system, COM+/DCOM, registry hives, the .NET framework, security ACLs, GDI+, the Windows Scripting Host, the stability of the Windows API and ABI, emulation of legacy 32-bit and/or 16-bit protected mode environments, virtual 8086 mode, etc.
Quote from: Kaitlyn on December 11, 2008, 09:43:02 PM
Although, I have to disagree with the people who say it's ready for the desktop - I'd never expect that my grandmother could find her way around it, even just for email and web browsing. Web media is geared for Windows (or Mac), and the plugin & extension support for Linux browsers just isn't there.
I would beg to differ.
Firefox web browser and Evolution mail client are installed by default With Ubuntu. And as far as multimedia plug ins go, flash player installs right from the browser. The only time I had any trouble with it was on one of my 64bit systems but flash 10 beta solved the problem. One thing that makes Ubuntu great is how Canonical works with Debian to keep GNU/GPL plugins and extensions up to date. The only web media I ever have trouble with is with RealPlayer content.
Quote from: Vexing on December 11, 2008, 09:48:30 PM
Running dual boot XP/Kubuntu.
Gaming and graphics happens on XP, Internet and music happens on Kubuntu.
If I could port a few games to Linux, I'd probably only ever use XP for my artwork.
I currently can play any Blizzard game that I have through WINE, i.e. WoW, Diablo I and II, Warcraft III and a good number of others like Empire Earth, Guild Wars, Everquest...and even PAC-MAN! lol :) Ubuntu has a rather large game repository too. OpenArena is a pretty awesome game, good stress relief.
I think people get too wrapped up in what they like about Linux, and don't realize how it'd be for someone who doesn't really "get" tech. I wouldn't even recommend the Windows port of Firefox to most people - not because I don't like it, but because I try really hard to see what could get fsck'd up as a result of it.
Imagine what happens with a person who doesn't know what a browser is, and thinks Internet Explorer is just another word for the Internet. Imagine someone who doesn't notice a difference between Firefox and IE, and thinks that the PC is just messed up and forgetting their favorites, passwords, and home page.
EDIT: I say this a someone who works in tech support and has been a package maintainer for Gentoo Linux.
EDIT: I used to be a gung-ho GPL valkyrie, but I eventually ran up against the fact that most people don't like PCs as a hobby and don't appreciate what they're capable of - they just want to do their jobs. I try to think of it as something like how I feel about cars.
Quote from: Cami on December 11, 2008, 10:11:00 PM
I currently can play any Blizzard game that I have through WINE, i.e. WoW, Diablo I and II, Warcraft III and a good number of others like Empire Earth, Guild Wars, Everquest...and even PAC-MAN! lol :) Ubuntu has a rather large game repository too. OpenArena is a pretty awesome game, good stress relief.
Let me know when they get Tribes III working ;)
Quote from: Kaitlyn on December 11, 2008, 10:19:48 PM
I think people get too wrapped up in what they like about Linux, and don't realize how it'd be for someone who doesn't really "get" tech. I wouldn't even recommend the Windows port of Firefox to most people - not because I don't like it, but because I try really hard to see what could get fsck'd up as a result of it.
Imagine what happens with a person who doesn't know what a browser is, and thinks Internet Explorer is just another word for the Internet. Imagine someone who doesn't notice a difference between Firefox and IE, and thinks that the PC is just messed up and forgetting their favorites, passwords, and home page.
Exactly my problem with Linux.
Geeks WAAAAAY over estimate users.
I do have customers who think Internet Explorer or AOL
are the internet, who cannot understand that a slow internet does not mean their computer is slow, and I have even met people who thought their fax machine worked over the internet. Some of my customers often cannot even drag a shortcut out onto the desktop in XP and you expect them to handle Linux?
Linux is like Windows 3.1 (which I liked by the way). There was a reason Win95 sold so well, because any fool could manage to use it without resorting to a dos prompt.
If the general public knew anything about computers, half the manufacturers would be out of business over crap products, no one would be buying Vista, at least on the crap they install it on, and Apple... I will refrain commenting on them.
Don't get me wrong, I am not a fanboy of any of them, I have been through enough operating systems over the years that I couldn't care less (I liked Be and Os2 if you must know) but I do know my customers, and there is just no way they could handle it.
Oh, and yes the internet is geared towards I.E., certain industry websites will not run on anything but I.E., I tried.
Apt Get... works great, if you know the name of the program. VI? Yet Another... Sure... No thinks, I am not teaching my customers how to deal with all of that.
If it were true that the large majority of average computer users are really so clueless that they can't even follow directions in a Windows help file then why are Macs selling so great? Macs are a whole different animal then a windows machine but I see average users every day leaving Windows for Mac.
I think a lot of people should give Linux a second look. Its not the green on black command line interface that it used to be. My 5 year old Step son can navigate his way around the Ubuntu Linux box I have set up as a media center. I really don't see how its any more complicated then a Windows or Mac system. Its only different, not worse then.
Quote from: Cami on December 12, 2008, 12:50:48 PM
If it were true that the large majority of average computer users are really so clueless that they can't even follow directions in a Windows help file then why are Macs selling so great? Macs are a whole different animal then a windows machine but I see average users every day leaving Windows for Mac.
That's because with a Mac, they don't have to read help screens. :)
Incidentally, for those who aren't aware, Macs are built on top of a unix varient. You have full access to the CLI, and the GUI and the CLI are nicely integrated. Eg, if you drag a file from the GUI to the CLI, it pastes the file's pathname with blanks (etc) escaped. For me, that combines the best of both worlds: I have both a standard GUI and a unix CLI available at all times. I can switch from CLI-oriented software development to GUI-oriented image or audio editing without rebooting. For the last few years, I've developed software on my mac and simply scp'd it to a linux server for production. With a little care, everything moves over fine, even the shells.
Oh yes, I do use java these days. C/C++ would be more of a problem, obviously. The language may be the same, but the differences in the "standard" headers and libraries get annoying.
BTW, here's my favorite quote about GUIs vs CLIs: unix uses a CLI, instead of a GUI, for the same reason that books for grownups use words, while books for children use pictures.
* Ducks the bricks thrown by graphic novel aficionados .... *
Quote from: Cami on December 12, 2008, 12:50:48 PM
I think a lot of people should give Linux a second look. Its not the green on black command line interface that it used to be. My 5 year old Step son can navigate his way around the Ubuntu Linux box I have set up as a media center. I really don't see how its any more complicated then a Windows or Mac system. Its only different, not worse then.
A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five. - Groucho Marx
Need I say more?
By all means. My 5 year old does use it and quite well I might add.
I remember a great analogy earlier this year between operating systems and airline seats.
...It went something like this....
The Microsoft seat
Everybody uses them so they must be good, but you find thy are never as comfortable as you hoped The stewardess will keep asking you if everything is Ok during the flight, but if anything goes wrong she tells you it's your fault, so you end up asking other passengers for help.
The Mac Seat
The most stylish and expensive seat on the plane. Minor faults aren't a problem they are more a feature of the experience. The stewardess just smiles at you as she walks up and down, and you know you were right to spend the extra money because you can afford it. Great in-flight entertainment included. But when something goes wrong, it's probably better to change to another seat than try to get it repaired. I mean, they never go wrong...do they?
The Linux Seat
The sort of seat you would want in a plane crash. Strong, sturdy, reliable, and potentially very comfortable after some adjustment. A truly unique and rewarding experience.
You arrive on the plane and find a box of parts, spanners, and a piece of paper saying "Some Self Assembly Required"
(My apologies if you have seen this before I couldn't find the source of the original)
I don't know the source either, but I first saw that a long time ago -- with Unix instead of Linux, because Linux didn't exist yet.
My friend and I used to have great Windows vs. Linux debates at work and some even got a bit heated. He is a die hard MS fan while I am Strictly Linux with a little UNIX (freeBSD) thrown in for good measure.
In the end it always came down to this. Preference. I have my opinions on why Linux is better but those are only reasons why its better for me, not for everyone else. He was a gamer so Windows was better for him. I'm a network admin and a geek so Linux/UNIX is better for me.
Quote from: Chrissty on December 12, 2008, 01:44:54 PM
The Linux Seat
The sort of seat you would want in a plane crash. Strong, sturdy, reliable, and potentially very comfortable after some adjustment. A truly unique and rewarding experience.
You arrive on the plane and find a box of parts, spanners, and a piece of paper saying "Some Self Assembly Required"
I worked on aircraft, you don't want Joe the Plumber fixing your plane. :P
Quote from: Cami on December 12, 2008, 01:29:03 PM
By all means. My 5 year old does use it and quite well I might add.
Great. Now I have to worry about losing my job to 5 year olds.
Quote from: Leslie Ann on December 12, 2008, 11:25:36 PM
Quote from: Chrissty on December 12, 2008, 01:44:54 PM
The Linux Seat
The sort of seat you would want in a plane crash. Strong, sturdy, reliable, and potentially very comfortable after some adjustment. A truly unique and rewarding experience.
You arrive on the plane and find a box of parts, spanners, and a piece of paper saying "Some Self Assembly Required"
I worked on aircraft, you don't want Joe the Plumber fixing your plane. :P
I'm not sure I want Joe the Plumber fixing my plumbing. :P
The Pinkone RULZ!
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wait a second here, there is a linux thread and I wasn't invited!?!
I'm running kubuntu at home and manage 2 mandriva boxes and a red hat box at work. I'm not a fangirl when it comes to operating systems, but in my environment at work, linux has been a dream especially when it comes to using it with our oracle dbs and jboss.
at home I have 2 windows boxes (vista and XP). I love mac, but I haven't had one in years, and I can't afford a new one right now. I was thinking of buying a macbook with my tax return and writing it off next years taxes since it's been 2 years since my last computer purchase =)
LOL! actually it kinda started out as a "I hate Microsoft" thread and kinda got hijacked.
most linux threads do! ;D
And the GEEK shall inherit the earth! :icon_geekdance:
yea, but we'll have to fix all the mistakes the n00bs made, LOL
There's no place for n00bs in a world of geeks. They'd be like the "untouchables" in India.
Problem is that the world runs more or less on social skills
Quote from: tekla on December 14, 2008, 02:07:13 PM
Problem is that the world runs more or less on social skills
Bull->-bleeped-<- & fakery run on social skills - the world runs on technology.
Being a geek, I know lots about the one, and nothing about the other. ;D
Quote from: Cami on December 13, 2008, 03:33:01 PM
LOL! actually it kinda started out as a "I hate Microsoft" thread and kinda got hijacked.
More to the point; where are all the MAC users telling us how awesome MAC's are?
macs ARE awesome! ;D
Quote from: eliza beth on December 14, 2008, 04:02:16 PM
macs ARE awesome! ;D
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant)
Macs only got awesome when Apple threw out their crappy OS and PowerPC hardware, and started over.
Maybe I'm just a silly old beast. Hell, I remember when I bought my dad a calculator for Xmas and though it was the coolest thing in the world. And, as it turns out, that year, it was. I started with a trash 80, went to a 286, to a 386, to a 486, to a Pent III, to, well, an Apple Ibook. Not even a real advanced deal, and I love it. Of course, I don't wank off playing some fantasy games, but I do get high on how well it runs basic calcs (that, in fact, I only run AFTER, i come up with the solution on paper -- or, on chalk on a stage, I'm just that damn enamored with being right all on my own) and can word process, and surf the web. After that, you need a life, not a better computer.
Quote from: tekla on December 14, 2008, 07:29:56 PMAfter that, you need a life, not a better computer.
But it's a lot easier to upgrade your computer than to upgrade your life :(.
True that, but a lot less fun in the end. A whole lot less real too.
Quote from: tekla on December 14, 2008, 02:07:13 PM
Problem is that the world runs more or less on social skills
But this is a web forum! Social skills?
We're hackers! We don't need no stinking social skills! ;D
Quote from: Vexing on December 14, 2008, 03:53:57 PM
Quote from: Cami on December 13, 2008, 03:33:01 PM
LOL! actually it kinda started out as a "I hate Microsoft" thread and kinda got hijacked.
More to the point; where are all the MAC users telling us how awesome MAC's are?
I made a few posts to that effect. But I don't feel the need to shout it from the rooftops, or pound it into people's skulls. The smart people realize it. The others ... well, hopefully they will learn from their mistakes.
* Ducks razor-edged Windows system discs thrown by Linux zealots .... *Quote from: Kaitlyn on December 14, 2008, 04:07:27 PM
Macs only got awesome when Apple threw out their crappy OS and PowerPC hardware, and started over.
I don't think the PowerPC was all that bad. However, it proved to be a dead end, so the intel switch was a good thing.
But I agree about the old OS9. I've used Macs since OS 7 (maybe earlier -- a lot of gray cells have hit the bug zapper since then). I was getting kind of disgusted with Apple. If they hadn't switched to a unix-based OS -- and done a decent job of marrying it with a GUI! -- I would have switched to Linux.
Also, another contributing factor to Apple's getting awesome is they finally started using industry standards, and dropped their proprietary crud like ADB, Apple's video interface, resource forks, whatever protocol they used instead of TCP/IP, and so on. Now my mac laptop runs very nicely in my work network -- in some ways, better than my company-issued Win/XP box. My mac can talk to the corporate network printers, which is more than I can say for my PC. These days, the only thing I use my PC for is netmeeting. And then only when I don't want VMWare to hog up my mac's screen with a virtual Windows desktop.
Quote from: tekla on December 14, 2008, 02:07:13 PM
Problem is that the world runs more or less on social skills
Not
my world, Baby! >:-)
Sure it does, and that's what makes it suck so bad.