Hey everyone!
I've been doing some thinking and I'm wondering, what is the best country to live in? Obviously I'm looking for somewhere that is open and accepting of transgendered people and of lesbians particularly, but also other factors: jobs, safety, good quality of life, good health care, etc. Not so sure the US is the best place to stay with Prop. 8 and everything else going to hell... :-\
What are your thoughts?
Northern Europe, Denmark, Holland, Canada
Quote from: tekla on December 20, 2008, 12:06:32 PM
Northern Europe, Denmark, Holland, Canada
Any place that's warmer year-round? I've had enough of snow and cold. :P
For some reason, the closer to the equator you are, the more war, poverty and overpopulation you get. You tend to get worse governments too. Don't know why.
QuoteAny place that's warmer year-round? I've had enough of snow and cold. :P
Niger.
I agree with Tekla. Most of Western Europe would be great (except the UK, which is better than the US from a legal point of view, but not from a social one. Apart from that, maybe Thailand?
I'm angling for Europe as soon as I have the means though. I understand Sweden is a nice enough place. ;D
~Simone.
Warmer climes are gonna be tricky, you could come here, but apart from Capetown and parts of Johannesburg, you'd have much the same problems as in the US.
~Simone.
Depends on where in the US, its a huge place, and some places are very different from others. Part of the problem here is that most of this stuff is on a state level, and that means there are fifty sets of rules, regulations, and all that crap, but in the end, you really only have to deal with one, so pick someplace easy and not, say, Alabama.
Quote from: tekla on December 20, 2008, 12:34:01 PM
Depends on where in the US, its a huge place, and some places are very different from others. Part of the problem here is that most of this stuff is on a state level, and that means there are fifty sets of rules, regulations, and all that crap, but in the end, you really only have to deal with one, so pick someplace easy and not, say, Alabama.
I suppose that's true of most places (except for the whole state vs. federal confusion. Which really is confusing. Like really. :P ) South Africa has tolerant areas and bigoted hellholes, like everywhere else. I think on balance Western Europe is probably the most accepting place around though. Except for some of the more southern places like Greece, for example.
~Simone.
Northern Europe ?!. I would take away Finland and Norway. Maybe even Sweden.
(From different reasons.)
Quote from: lady amarant on December 20, 2008, 12:23:34 PM
I agree with Tekla. Most of Western Europe would be great (except the UK, which is better than the US from a legal point of view, but not from a social one. Apart from that, maybe Thailand?
I'm angling for Europe as soon as I have the means though. I understand Sweden is a nice enough place. ;D
~Simone.
Probably not Thailand, I've heard great things about Sweden, and I sort of heart them. ;D
Maybe I'll join you? :D
Jenn
Sweden has so strong feminist movement that it affects negative towards transwomen.
You wanted warm and in the next breath you say Sweden, the home of Winter Sports?
Quote from: tekla on December 20, 2008, 12:18:05 PM
For some reason, the closer to the equator you are, the more war, poverty and overpopulation you get. You tend to get worse governments too. Don't know why.
Sun. It fries your brains :P
Finland and Norway are socially conservative expectionally issues like this.
Also Finland has problems to be a real democracy after Nazi-alliance in WW2.
My final judgement will say Holland even there are growing number of social conservatives.
Try Vancouver BC. For the most part Vancouver it TS friendly and the climate is not all that bad if you can put up with four months of rain in the winter, and we do have rain forests.
Cindy
Quote from: soldierjane on December 20, 2008, 01:13:36 PMSun. It fries your brains :P
Along with everything else. *sweatpantwheeze*
~Simone.
Quote from: goingdown on December 20, 2008, 01:16:18 PM
Finland and Norway are socially conservative expectionally issues like this.
Also Finland has problems to be a real democracy after Nazi-alliance in WW2.
Only after Hitler went against the Sovier Union, which was later in the war.
In the beginning of the war the Soviets were running alongside the Nazis on the Molotov-Ribbentropp carriage. Polandgot squished between them and they shared the spoils, so the Finns shifted alliances in order to avoid being crushed. They first fought the Soviets alone, then the Soviets alongside with the Germans and then the Germans with the Allies.
I don't know if we can call Finland "conservative" as we call the US "conservative". They have same-sex civil unions, for example.
We can. I live in Finland and US seems more liberal to me.
Quote from: soldierjane on December 20, 2008, 01:38:20 PMI don't know if we can call Finland "conservative" as we call the US "conservative".
I would have to agree. From what I've seen, which admittedly boils down to some TV and some internet, the entire spectrum of US politics is shifted over to the right, so what passes for moderate in the US would be considered right wing in Europe, for example, while the US left is, at best equivalent to a moderate group.
~Simone.
I think 'liberal' is easier to judge nation to nation it kind of remains consistent, but what is 'conservative' is different in different places, and other nations have labor parties, green parties, commie/socialist parties and we have none of that.
Quote from: tekla on December 20, 2008, 01:12:06 PM
You wanted warm and in the next breath you say Sweden, the home of Winter Sports?
I said I wanted warm, yes. I mentioned Sweden because it's open and accepting, and has wonderful rights for women. But yes, it's cold. So I guess I have to take the good with the bad. :P
There's always California I suppose.
Our conservative party is actually as right as Republican party (expect economy).
Quote from: tekla on December 20, 2008, 01:43:16 PM
other nations have labor parties, green parties, commie/socialist parties and we have none of that.
Exactly. We have an alliance between a huge trade union, the communist party and a revolutionary movement at the head of government here, so our politics might be a tad left-shifted. ;)
~Simone.
Quote from: cindybc on December 20, 2008, 01:22:48 PM
Try Vancouver BC. For the most part Vancouver it TS friendly and the climate is not all that bad if you can put up with four months of rain in the winter, and we do have rain forests.
Cindy
Rain I don't mind Cindy, it's the cold and the snow that gets to me. Plus I get really depressed from about Mid-October to March-April. I can't stand the cold and the wind and the snow. Vancouver might be an option, if it's not too cold but seriously, I need like summer all-year round just to be happy. I can't stand being happy half of the year and incredibly depressed the other half.
And before Bush the libertarian wing of party less right than our conservatives.
Quote from: goingdown on December 20, 2008, 01:41:08 PM
We can. I live in Finland and US seems more liberal to me.
Heh. Yes, the US can
seem quite liberal from outside, I know.
Quote from: soldierjane on December 20, 2008, 01:51:51 PM
Quote from: goingdown on December 20, 2008, 01:41:08 PM
We can. I live in Finland and US seems more liberal to me.
Heh. Yes, the US can seem quite liberal from outside, I know.
Aside from the Northeast and the West, and a few small places in between which are mostly moderate, the vast majority of the county is conservative, such as the South and Mid-West. There isn't many options here in the states. :-\
I once talked about things with two politically interested cis-women. Other was from New York and other from Washington (state). Their opinions were far more liberal than is here socially acceptable.
Personally, I am a West Coast girl. Oregon is cool, for the most part is very trans-friendly. Portland is to the Trans community as San Fransisco is to the Gay Community, and there is a large Lesbian population here. We have many trans doctors and therapists. Two of the best are Trans themselves, and we even have our own GRS doctor. The weather is reasonable, for the most past.
Summers are warm, not to hot. The Winters are mild, except this year we are getting a snow storm. But that is rare. Washington is so so, California is neat. Cindybc is north of me and may be one day I will go up and see her and Wing Walker. But right now, $$$ is tight. But who knows.
And with our new President is might even get better for the GLBT community.
IMHO,
Janet
You did not have a real liberal candidate in election 2008. In 2004 there was Badnarik.
Quote from: goingdown on December 20, 2008, 02:06:43 PM
You did not have a real liberal candidate in election 2008. In 2004 there was Badnarik.
Badnarik is a Libertarian. He would certainly not want to be called "Liberal".
Liberal and liberatarian are here where I live very close to each other. The opposite is pro-strong goverment conservativism and pro labor union socialism.
The grass is always greener.
I'd love to live in Western Europe and Japan myself for some time.
the Northeast and the West
That is pretty much the lion's share of the US, population wise for sure. The Southeast is nice, its very warm and some of the SW, isn't that bad.
I mean when you say West its like a thousand miles Seattle to San Diego its not some small place.
And I thought we were talking about political considerations as being an important part of all of this.
I have a place for you that is in the south and not conservative. Key West, FL
I know people who love Atlanta, none trans, but a couple gay people. Summers are very hot and humid though, you can cut chunks of air out of the sky with a knife.
If I were to live in the US I would pick Morristown in Eastern Tennessee or Asheville NC area, the climate is fairly good and the people are friendly. Or Sawgrass Florida and live in a house on stilts out in the everglades and travel in and out by airboat. ;D
Cindy
I would actually prefer to avoid the south as much as possible, I just don't get a good vibe from that part of the country. And Florida is much too muggy for my liking, went down there when I was little and couldn't stand it, felt like I was in an oven for weeks! :o
Hmmm ... What about somewhere like the South of France or Spain or perhaps Italy? Those are Mediterranean rather than temperate, so while you have a nice climate you also don't get that oppressive humidity one gets closer to the equator. I don't know how Spain or Italy are as far as civil rights and laws go, though I do know that France is really liberal. In theory though they are all members of the EU and must hold to the laws and civil rights conventions mandated by Brussels, so even bad Europe is gonna be way better than the US, I'm thinking.
Just avoid Vatican City. :P
~Simone.
Quote from: tekla on December 20, 2008, 06:23:38 PM
I know people who love Atlanta, none trans, but a couple gay people. Summers are very hot and humid though, you can cut chunks of air out of the sky with a knife.
Tru dat, on all counts.
Auckland, New Zealand.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.businessweek.com%2Fss%2F07%2F04%2F0406_liveable_cities%2Fimage%2F5_auckland.jpg&hash=68c5abf4f028bdf9a5c7800f72eafcea0b9cc5ca)
Haven't made up my mind yet where I want to live ;D
http://dingo.care2.com/cards/flash/5409/galaxy.swf (http://dingo.care2.com/cards/flash/5409/galaxy.swf)
Cindy
Vexing that skyline looks beautiful! I've thought of visiting New Zealand. Is it really still mostly un-developed nature like I've heard?
Quote from: fae_reborn on December 22, 2008, 09:19:40 PM
Vexing that skyline looks beautiful! I've thought of visiting New Zealand. Is it really still mostly un-developed nature like I've heard?
I guess a lot of NZ is still very much in the same state as it was when man first arrived here about 600 years ago. For example, I live in the city centre in Welligton, but my office looks over hills covered in native bush and trees. Much of the west coast of the South Island is national parks or uninhabited and the North Island has huge National Parks (reserves) around the central plateau.
When I lived in Kelson (30 min drive from central Wellington) two years ago, this was pretty much my view out the rear of the house:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.puhoihistoricalsociety.org.nz%2FNZ%2520bush_small.jpg&hash=72ea6193a94f064b0ffab81dc1d34c427dd54e7d)
Sometimes in NZ you feel like humans only really have a toehold on the land - and that the native forests will take over again you turn your back for too long.
Quote from: tekla on December 20, 2008, 06:23:38 PM
I know people who love Atlanta, none trans, but a couple gay people. Summers are very hot and humid though, you can cut chunks of air out of the sky with a knife.
Yeah, Atlanta's not bad. A nice little island of blue in a sea of red.
Lia
The Netherlands, Iceland, Norway, Sweden!
Quote from: fae_reborn on December 22, 2008, 09:19:40 PM
Vexing that skyline looks beautiful! I've thought of visiting New Zealand. Is it really still mostly un-developed nature like I've heard?
Most importantly, it's the home of the Flight of the Conchords ;D
What country could be better than my own, Switzerland? :icon_cool:
Quote from: soldierjane on December 24, 2008, 08:15:42 AM
Quote from: fae_reborn on December 22, 2008, 09:19:40 PM
Vexing that skyline looks beautiful! I've thought of visiting New Zealand. Is it really still mostly un-developed nature like I've heard?
Most importantly, it's the home of the Flight of the Conchords ;D
Yarly, those two rock!
Austalia
Warm all year to hot, get a bikini body. trans friendly.
Have a spare
room ;)
just spent the day on the beach sunbaking. Wearing a BK. no one cared
Quote from: CindyJames on January 03, 2009, 05:18:59 AM
Austalia
<snip>
trans friendly.
In the major cities, yes (Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra, perhaps Perth).
Elsewhere, no.
I've never been there, but Bali sounds appealing
Z
Thailand, one of the most tolerant countries on earth.
Hi well I been over more then half the US and Canada but I must say that here in BC is probably one of the nicest and friendliest places I lived at, that includes TS friendly for the most part in the Vancouver area as well. Much of the outlying areas is rain forest especially Vancouver island.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi11.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa191%2Fcynthiag932%2Fvancouver2.jpg&hash=a5e9ae0465880238183b12bd22ba035d155e846d)
Cindy
Not my homecountry. >:(
No one's mentioned Ibiza. Has it gone downhill recently?
As a TG, I like Wellington better than Auckland to live in and the westside of south island is a dream for me.
As a TG, I love tiny NZ enough to put up w/ earthquakes, tornados, erupting volcanos, floods and racism.
Racial violence towards Asians abound, in large parts of the South Isle. Police violence towards asian too. I was there.
I now live NYC, because it's very easy to meet lots of new people everyday.
- G'gurl
Few people here are rich enough to go to Ibiza, much less live there.
Quote from: gilded on January 10, 2009, 05:47:23 PM
As a TG, I love tiny NZ enough to put up w/ earthquakes, tornados, erupting volcanos, floods and racism.
Besides racism, we don't get much of the other things you mentioned. They're usually once in a blue moon.