QuoteWASHINGTON (CNN) -- A Chicago, Illinois, police officer who was videotaped beating a man restrained in a wheelchair at a hospital emergency room pleaded guilty Thursday to using "excessive or unreasonable force" against the victim, Justice Department officials announced.
Veteran police officer William Cozzi, 51, entered his plea in a federal court in Chicago more than three years after the beating of Randle Miles.
A plea agreement filed with the court said the victim -- who was taken to Norwegian American Hospital after being stabbed on August 2, 2005 -- had been loud and verbally abusive, so Cozzi handcuffed and shackled the man.
Police do not only treat trans-gender people poorly, they are mean to anyone who talks back to them. Yes this is not legal but for everyone's safety and best interest just cooperate and let them arrest you. Then get a lawyer and bring it out in court.
I used to be polite to the cops when I got arrested. But I seem to be a polite person anyway. One of the things to remember is that cops, like animals, are as afraid of you as you are of them. You must treat them gently.
But I was lucky maybe. I've known people who've been knocked around.
Chicago cops do not have a rep for soft behavior. For a lot of them, brutality is the fun part of the job.
Oh cops... Losers from high school with nothing better to do than take teenagers pot and stash it to make their boring lives less stupid.
I heard somewhere that cops and criminals have almost identical psych profiles.
Mina.
There are some very good police officers out there who wouldn't think about doing something like that. There are also power-hungry psychopaths in uniform. You don't know what kind you've run into. If you've run into a good person who's doing his or her job to help people and help society, then by being polite, you've made their job easier, and whatever wrong you feel you've suffered can be sorted out in the end. Being rude won't help.
If you run into one of the power-hungry psychopaths in uniform, you only make your situation worse by fighting, objecting, or being less than polite. And you're likely to get additional criminal charges and they will be harder to defend against because it'll be his word against yours (usually a guy, this type). You're also going to open the door to get the snot kicked out of you, which is why this guy does the job. Free licence to kick butt. You could be charged with assault police officer because from my experience, your face hitting their fist is apparently an assault upon them. And it's a bugger to try and defend a client who's been a jerk in public, so they have lots of civilian witnesses saying how obnoxious this person was, then taken into a nice, non-videotaped area, beaten senseless, and who then claims against the police. Just don't do it.
You can't lose by being polite (but do NOT ever give a statement to the police, regardless if they're the good ones or the bad ones their job is to convict you. Talk to your lawyer first). Always be nice, and always politely decline to speak with them at this time.
Just on the latter point, watch this video: http://boingboing.net/2008/07/28/law-prof-and-cop-agr.html (http://boingboing.net/2008/07/28/law-prof-and-cop-agr.html)
No matter how often I tell a client not to talk to the police, they do. Most of my clients convict themselves, whether they're guilty or not.
You can pay me later for the legal advice.
Dennis
The law school prof was entertaining. The cop's video wasn't "available at this time." But, the advice is good. Keeping one's mouth shut is good advice.
P.S. Take the link down and then click it again and the second video plays. Back to number two. This is really good, Dennis. Thank you. A Law School in Virginia Beach? A Pat Robertson-funded Law School?
N~
Well.....Back in the day when I was drinkin', the cops found me $#!t faced laying on the sidewalk on St. Patti's day. One of them told me I could get shot behaving like that. So I told him if he wanted to shot me, he'd have to take a number and get in line. I was kept at the happy house for observation for two days :laugh: :P :laugh: Was I surprised when I went to pick up my belongings, everything was there. Even my pot and pipe ??? As it turns out, along the way I had gotten into a scuffle with some wanna be gangster kids and knock them around pretty good. When one of them told their mom, the whole bunch were arrested for various things. Burglary, posession of stolen prop. Assault & battery, Drugs, Rape. The police had been trying to catch them for months. So calling in about me did them no favors
But still, I wouldn't recomend mouthing off to the authorities ;)
Quote from: mina.m->-bleeped-<-ie link=topic=54170.msg336162#msg336162 date=1232683754
I heard somewhere that cops and criminals have almost identical psych profiles.
Mina.
Odd. I heard somewhere that they wear the identical underwear. And sometimes socks
I always did whatever it was I was being arrested for. Minor stuff.
No matter how often I tell a client not to talk to the police, they do. Most of my clients convict themselves, whether they're guilty or not.
True that, you see that happen all the time. You are not talking yourself out of anything, you are only digging the hole deeper.
"Yes sir" "Yes Mam'" "I want to talk to my lawyer." Or, as my lawyer says "Don't argue the Constitution on the side of the road with a guy who has a gun and a police radio." Save it for the judge, you'll be seeing him/her soon enough.
Quote from: tekla on January 22, 2009, 08:54:59 PM
Chicago cops do not have a rep for soft behavior. For a lot of them, brutality is the fun part of the job.
On You Tube, 4 9 k g G 0 s 7 l V k
=K
Quote from: mina.m->-bleeped-<-ie link=topic=54170.msg336162#msg336162 date=1232683754
I heard somewhere that cops and criminals have almost identical psych profiles.
Mina.
This was told to me by the Sexual Assault Prevention Coordinator where I work (he has a Ph.D in psych, BTW)
He went to a seminar given to police chiefs and other high-ranking police officials. The topic was Serial Rapists, and the intent was to get the cops up to speed on what makes a serial rapist tick, so their departments could more effectively deal with an occurrence.
The presenter had pointed out some of the hallmarks of serial rapists -- taking trophies, leaving deliberate clues, taunting police in difficult- or impossible-to-trace letters, etc.
The presenter finished with, "Gentlemen, don't you get the impression that the serial rapist believes he's smarter than you, and he's taunting you with that?
"Well, the IQ of the average serial rapist is above 120. The IQ of the average rank-and-file cop on the beat is 90.
"Gentlemen, they are 'smarter than you.'"
=K
Being foreign in a conservative country you soon learn not to talk back to police, that being said when i moved to a different city starting transition my neighbour was police and was nothing but kind and helpful to me.
Its a lot to do with the person from my experiences.
Interesting
I presume all this is in the USA. In Adelaide, Australia, we now have a G&L support group in the police force and if anything happens we are to request the attendance of a member. It still doesn't mean the c..p won't beaten out of you but there are some hopes. I also think Sydney has a gay pride police force that marches in the MArdi Gras. I'm pretty sure you don't have to G or L to be in it, just a concerned cop.
Cindy James
Here's a very detailed article on dealing with police...
http://susans.org/wiki/Dealing_with_police (http://susans.org/wiki/Dealing_with_police)
Contents
[hide]
* 1 Your Rights And Police Powers
o 1.1 Being stopped by police
o 1.2 Answering police questions
+ 1.2.1 When must you answer police questions.
o 1.3 Park Police, Railway Police And Transit Guards
o 1.4 Reporting A Crime To Police
o 1.5 What to do if you are arrested
+ 1.5.1 Formal interviews with police
+ 1.5.2 Physical evidence
# 1.5.2.1 Fingerprints and other ID
# 1.5.2.2 Body searches
# 1.5.2.3 Body samples
# 1.5.2.4 Other searches
o 1.6 Complaints About Police
o 1.7 Anti-Discrimination
* 2 Police abuse and misconduct against lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people in the U.S.
o 2.1 Introduction
o 2.2 National and International Law and Standards(24)
o 2.3 Scope and Methodology
o 2.4 Profiling and Selective Enforcement
+ 2.4.1 Policing Gender - Profiling of transgender individuals
# 2.4.1.1 Law Enforcement Training and Policies
# 2.4.1.2 Profiling transgender women as sex workers
# 2.4.1.3 Identification
# 2.4.1.4 Policing Bathroom Use
# 2.4.1.5 Morals Enforcement – Policing Public Space
* 2.4.1.5.1 Vague Laws and Targeted Undercover Enforcement of Morals Regulations
# 2.4.1.6 Police Raids of LGBT Gatherings
# 2.4.1.7 Demonstrations – Targeting of LGBT Demonstrators and Activists
+ 2.4.2 "Quality of Life" Enforcement and Gentrification
# 2.4.2.1 Discriminatory enforcement of "quality of life" ordinances
o 2.5 Sexual, Physical and Verbal Abuse
+ 2.5.1 Sexual abuse
+ 2.5.2 Physical Abuse
+ 2.5.3 Verbal abuse of LGBT Individuals
o 2.6 Searches and Detention
+ 2.6.1 Searches and "Gender Checks"
# 2.6.1.1 Police Policy and Training Procedures
# 2.6.1.2 Inappropriate Searches of Transgender Individuals
+ 2.6.2 Treatment in Detention/Holding Cells
# 2.6.2.1 Failure to Protect LGBT Individuals From Other Detainees
* 2.6.2.1.1 Housing of LGBT Detainees: Detention Policies and Procedures
# 2.6.2.2 Verbal, Physical and Sexual Abuse by Guards
o 2.7 Police Response to Crimes Against LGBT Individuals: Fear of Reporting; Police Failure to Respond and Inappropriate Police Response
+ 2.7.1 Fear of Reporting Crimes
+ 2.7.2 Hate Crimes
# 2.7.2.1 Hate Crimes: Background
# 2.7.2.2 Police Response to Hate Crimes
+ 2.7.3 Domestic Violence
# 2.7.3.1 Background
# 2.7.3.2 Police Response to LGBT Domestic Violence
o 2.8 Training and Accountability
+ 2.8.1 Background
+ 2.8.2 Training
+ 2.8.3 Recruitment and Diversity on the Force
+ 2.8.4 Community Accountability
+ 2.8.5 Leadership and Supervision
+ 2.8.6 Accountability for Police Misconduct and Abuse
# 2.8.6.1 Complaint systems
# 2.8.6.2 Internal Accountability Measures
# 2.8.6.3 Independent and External Civilian Oversight
+ 2.8.7 Prosecutions and Lawsuits
o 2.9 Identity-Based Discrimination and Police Abuse
o 2.10 Appendix A
o 2.11 Appendix B
o 2.12 Appendix C
* 3 See also
* 4 External links
* 5 Discuss
Oh cool...
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F Minus, 1-29-09
Quote from: tekla on January 22, 2009, 08:54:59 PM
Chicago cops do not have a rep for soft behavior. For a lot of them, brutality is the fun part of the job.
I can attest to this when I was fifteen I got drunk and when a police officer came to talk to me I told him to **** off. I didn't get arrested but I apparently was so drunk that with extra force I fell against his night stick that he just was holding to show me how nice it looked and I broke two of my own ribs clumsy me. this did teach me to keep my mouth shut and it also taught me that the correct responce to a question from the police is yes sir\maam or no sir\maam and not **** off. learning is fun isn't it.
I have never known how people get that idea. Any big city cop, Chicago, NYC, Philly - are tough people, and they don't take much, if any, crap.
However, its also bad out at 2am on some freeway with some county mountie with nothing but time on his hands going through your car.
And there are the 'training towns' where the cops go out of the academy to score some major busts and then transfer to a bigger department where they can get paid a lot more. They tend to be vicious too.
And there is LA. A police force very different from almost any other place, but their rep for being brutal is in a class by itself.
Damn I sure am glad I live in New Zealand. Our cops seem to be lovely by comparison, but then they don't have to deal with the same level of violence or crime in the society they work in. You still get the odd wanker and I don't always blame them considering what some have to deal with.
I lived with a cop trainee once - his psych test said he was "super normal". That scared me more than anything.
The point about cops and criminals having almost identical psych profiles is almost an exact hit on the head. Its of said that serial killers are the best profilers (whose job it is to catch the monsters in the first place). The biggest problem is that in order to catch some of the really bad criminals out there, you have to be able to think like them
This is why you see the dichotomy in cops. I've known ones that are the typical thugs in uniform, and I've seen others who are the kindest people in the world who are genuinely concerned about the people who they protect.
Fortunately never been in a situation where I've mouthed off to a cop, but I have been in ones that I was most definitely at fault. I was apologetic, agreed with everything he said, and actually walked away with a much smaller fine than what I deserved.
That said, the right to an attorney is there for a reason. A lot of the shows that are on TV now seem to be pushing the idea that "no one lawyers up unless their guilty". I think thats a load of something unmentionable. The cops have ways of getting you to say what they want you to say. The first words out of anyones mouth when they get to the precinct (after keeping their mouth shut until then) is "I want a lawyer." Period.
Well our cops here have a big sign on the side of the car......To Protect and to Serve. So they would not dare treat us badly, now would they?
Right!
I have only been hassled en femme one time by a cop. But it was not fun. I was pulled off the road, down a back road, putting on makeup and talking on the phone. He went through everything in my car, made me pull up my shirt, etc. I was totally scared at what might happen. After questioning me about everything imaginable, he eventually let me go and followed me for a long time. He gave me a warning ticket for parking in the middle of traffic. Ummmm, right. But it was a LOT better than getting arrested. To protect and to serve? Get real.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
unfortunately there are some Wackadoos in uniform that think it's a reference to Self service :icon_blah:
I had a rookie who tried to intimidate me for embarrassing him in front of his superiors. The more he harassed me, the more embarrassed he got :laugh: >:-) :laugh:
Quote from: Kristi on January 30, 2009, 08:47:12 PM
Well our cops here have a big sign on the side of the car......To Protect and to Serve. So they would not dare treat us badly, now would they?
Right!
I have only been hassled en femme one time by a cop. But it was not fun. I was pulled off the road, down a back road, putting on makeup and talking on the phone. He went through everything in my car, made me pull up my shirt, etc. I was totally scared at what might happen. After questioning me about everything imaginable, he eventually let me go and followed me for a long time. He gave me a warning ticket for parking in the middle of traffic. Ummmm, right. But it was a LOT better than getting arrested. To protect and to serve? Get real.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
When living in Chicago I noticed something I thought was funny at the time about this thier cars had the to protect and serve then right after that it said chicago police so I decied it meant that the only ones they protect and serve is themselves!
They protect and serve them what's protects and serves them. I've always liked Chicago cops, they even rolled us out to the airport one night with the lights on so we could catch our plane. That was nice.
But most, not all, but at least 90% of the people I've seen who got beat on by a big city cop was asking for it, if not begging for it. Stupidity is a sin that is always punished.
Quote from: tekla on January 31, 2009, 05:30:01 AM
Stupidity is a sin that is always punished.
then explain George w.
OK, its not exactly like he is at the top of people's list to invite to a party these days.
The mistake I made was flagging down a police cruiser to report that I'd seen a guy in nothing but boxers chasing a half naked girl up the street. It was shortly after I'd been in an accident and I was walking with a cane at the time. So the rookie takes my cane away and throw's me against the car. Then he brought me over to an oily spot in the middle of a gas station and pushed me face first into the oil. And pushed his knee in my back.
Luckily the senior officers showed up to question the rookie. They made him apologize to me and gave him hell for wasting time while the attempted rapist got away. The jerk had it out for me ever since. I noticed that the police Captain frequented the same cafe that I did. He put an end to the harassment. ;)
People who give cops a hard time are either too stupid or wasted to be convinced it's a bad idea anyway, imo.
Quote from: Jen on January 31, 2009, 06:57:59 PM
People who give cops a hard time are either too stupid or wasted to be convinced it's a bad idea anyway, imo.
True, giving the cops a bad time is a stupid idea. In my case I wasn't giving anyone a bad time. I was trying to help. Most of the cops in that area liked me. It was just the one rookie who gave me a bad time because I embarrassed him in front of the senior officers. He got demoted and put on bicycle assn. My dad was an MP in the Marines. My step dad was a city cop. I learned very early to not give the cops a bad time. Most often the cops where ever I have lived have thanked me for my help at one time or another. (I have a tendency to help them with violent crimes) Some of which were committed against TG people
Quote from: Virginia Marie on January 31, 2009, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: Jen on January 31, 2009, 06:57:59 PM
People who give cops a hard time are either too stupid or wasted to be convinced it's a bad idea anyway, imo.
True, giving the cops a bad time is a stupid idea. In my case I wasn't giving anyone a bad time. I was trying to help. Most of the cops in that area liked me. It was just the one rookie who gave me a bad time because I embarrassed him in front of the senior officers. He got demoted and put on bicycle assn. My dad was an MP in the Marines. My step dad was a city cop. I learned very early to not give the cops a bad time. Most often the cops where ever I have lived have thanked me for my help at one time or another. (I have a tendency to help them with violent crimes) Some of which were committed against TG people
Heh, I wasn't talking about you, or anybody else specifically. Your story was upsetting to me, but I'm glad the police dept there handled it right. I don't think that always happens.
No worries, I think I was dwelling too much on an old memory. I actually like your statement :)
Once a security guard in a local shop wanted to look inside my bag after he was following me quit a while. There was a quit lof of people and I felt embarassed. He was not waiting to see anything stolen and after I had opened my bag he left. That happened when I was not dressed as myself .