My son recently told me he is a transgender. I am trying so hard to do and say the right things but (although I'm sure he doesn't realize it) I'm so depressed and scared for him and his future that I can barely function. He is 18 years old and he is very rude and disrespectful to me although I have always been a loving mother to him.
I've been reading all I can about ->-bleeped-<-, etc. but the more I learn, the more confused I get. The lastest theory I read was that MtF transgenders identify too closely to their mother and have a distant relationship with their father and that contributes to their wanting to be like their mother. (something like that) This strikes me a bit too simplistic but I have to admit that it fits our family dynamic.
Please don't take offense to this but I have an overwhelming guilt that somehow I contributed by being too close to my son. (and he will have to struggle with this because of his parents) Would some of you (MtF) mind telling if you were close to your mother but not your dad?
Thank you! Just trying to understand.
Very close to my mum, shes like my best friend but my step-dad well i'd rather not discuss in public.
Dont blame yourself we are wired this way and its no-ones fault. My mum felt this way until i explained it all to her so theres no shame in how you are feeling.
Your son is also only 18, put some of that agression down to being a teenager hunny.
Just be supportive and it will all work out for you both.
Welcome to the site, honey. :)
I think, in my case, it would be better if I directed you to another post I made a little while ago which dealt with that very issue.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,53550.msg332765.html#msg332765 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,53550.msg332765.html#msg332765)
Maybe that will give you some insight. :)
I think this is a 'chicken or egg' situation. Are mtfs transsexual because they were closer to their moms?
Or were mtfs closer to their moms because they were transsexual (girls)?
Quote from: momoftrans on January 26, 2009, 10:09:19 AM
My son recently told me he is a transgender. I am trying so hard to do and say the right things but (although I'm sure he doesn't realize it) I'm so depressed and scared for him and his future that I can barely function. He is 18 years old and he is very rude and disrespectful to me although I have always been a loving mother to him.
I've been reading all I can about ->-bleeped-<-, etc. but the more I learn, the more confused I get. The lastest theory I read was that MtF transgenders identify too closely to their mother and have a distant relationship with their father and that contributes to their wanting to be like their mother. (something like that) This strikes me a bit too simplistic but I have to admit that it fits our family dynamic.
Please don't take offense to this but I have an overwhelming guilt that somehow I contributed by being too close to my son. (and he will have to struggle with this because of his parents) Would some of you (MtF) mind telling if you were close to your mother but not your dad?
Thank you! Just trying to understand.
Hi and welcome,
First that closeness to the mum thing is way to simplistic there are many theories floating about and this one is just one of them. I was not that close to my mum whilst growing up in fact I wasn't very close to either parent because I thought they would reject me if they really knew me.
As far as I know the medical profession has come up with the idea that a transexuals brain and body develop in opposite directions in the womb. So a male to female transexual would have a female brain in a male body and a female to male transexual has a male brain in a female body. As there are many more male to female transexuals this makes sense as every foetus starts out female and struggles to become male if its going to be male. So if the brain is not influences by testosterone it remains female in a male body.
Google search for an organisation called Gires they have downloadable docs you can read on the above.
The anger your son has towards you may be his way of dealing with the way he feels. His feelings need to be spoken about and he needs to see a therapist in the field of Gender Dysphoria. In many ways if he is at 18 he?she? is better placed for a full and happy life than some because of age. This needs time to explore. Many here including myself have messed our own lives up and others in the meantime trying to conform to who we were not.
I hope this makes sense and I hope you both find peace.
Stardust
Sure i was close to my mom but i also loved my Dad even though he was a drunk when they divorced when i was just barely a teen. I also was put in a mental hospital for wearing womens clothes. I use to take baths with my 3 sisters but then mom separated me and i freaked out. I also hated when puberty kicked in and it took over my life taking me on a rollercoaster of hell or ups and downs. I finally figured it all out when i took a hormone to stop my thinning hair which chemically castrated me and took me back to pre-puberty. I was free finally and didn't have that nasty male sex drive driving me crazy. I always wonder about the youth like your child who may be suffering the ups and downs of testosterone which makes thinking incredibly hard.
My recomendation is to help your child by getting them on a spiranolactone type drug (a T blocker) (prescribed by a DR of course) which will block the T from causing the ups and downs and will give the child a chance to think clearly for a while.
Not sure what else to say but i am Danielle a 10 plus yr post op woman who is still celibate and single and well a virgin and realized i wasn't attracted to women and definately not men but i found out i love others like me be they male of female as long as they are over 35 yrs old closer to my age.. I also seek only true love and not just sex so i wait and wait and wait :'(
Please feel free to delve deeper into your childs actions because it sounds like your kinda rejecting their views which with testosterone in an 18 yr old may be making them angry and hostile which is definately not a good thing and can cause them to do something irrational.
hugs Danielle
PS: I am a volunteer on a farm in central Pa helping two elderly people be productive again.
I despise my mother and want nothing to do with her but to get an invitation to her funeral and take a match to it.
Nope, I'm DEFINTELY not a transsexual cuz I'm a, "momma's girl."
Quote from: Nero on January 26, 2009, 10:43:17 AM
I think this is a 'chicken or egg' situation. Are mtfs transsexual because they were closer to their moms?
Or were mtfs closer to their moms because they were transsexual (girls)?
Some biased mental professionals guess first however it is not true.
Hi Mom, :icon_wave:
Welcome to our little family. Over 1490 strong. That would be one heck of a family reunion. Feel free to post your successes/failures, Hopes/dreams. Ask questions and seek answers. Give and receive advice.
But remember we are family here, your family now. And it is always nice to have another parent. :icon_hug:
I was close to both parents, but they never accepted me as me, so I went back into the closet for 25 years. Mom taught me as if I was her daughter, but she said guys need to know these things too. I agree with Ms Delgado in that we are wired this way. But they really done know.
Just be accepting of your new 'daughter' and help her where you can. She has had a lot of practice in hiding. It may take a while to open up. And get her a gender therapist.
Janet
I was raised by my mother and grandparents, my mom divorced when i was about a year old, i did lots of things with my grandfather he liked gardening and what i learned i use today, i also learned things from my grandmother like cooking, and fun stuff with my mom. When i was 5 or 6 i knew i was different and it had nothing to do with my mother or grandparents or how i was raised.
Paula.
Welcome!
It's hard being 18 and trans.. um.. any age and trans!
The family research is all pretty uninterpretable, but the main message is: Don't blame yourself! No one's perfect. You did NOT cause your child's transsexuality. It is how we are born.
Advice: be understanding, gentle, supportive, don't blame. Your child needs you. You won't regret doing these things.
Namaste, Lunae
I was really close to both parents growing up, but I was mostly close to my mom. I wasn't feminine in the least really, but when did that have to do with anything? Actually I was usually alone as I got older. I preferred my fantasy... My legos and Legend of Zelda, and my sketchpad and models.
But... Here's the thing.
You had nothing to do with it, and its really not a catastrophe, so don't think of it that way. Its ok to be scared for her (someone who you may have perceived as a son, but has never really felt like one, so its only fair to call them by the pronouns that make them feel more confident and less like a freak. Call them, "her," and, "daughter." That is one of the only ways she'll stop being disrespectful.
I'm in a similar situation with my mom. Its easy to feel resentment when acceptance is hard to get with my own family. I would not have had that resentment if she hadn't said painful things to me, or tried to hide me from the world.
What you need to do is stop worrying WHAT caused this. Its irrelevant right now. What really matters is that your kid needs your support and as confusing and controversial a subject as this is, you must believe them that this is not a phase. Things like this almost never really go away.
The best thing you can do to repair your relationship and understand what she is going through, is to tell them outright that you don't know much about this... To be honest with your kid, and to be as supportive as you possibly can. She has enough to worry about, and in the end the choice to ultimately transition or not will be their choice and no one elses. Do not delay what she needs. Make an appointment with a gender specialist, and make sure your kid knows that you're confused and really scared for her, but that you're trying and that you care.
This isn't a choice. It isn't a mistake, because that would indicate a choice was made. Its not punishment, its not a plague, and whatever it is doesn't matter. What matters is that you love them, and you MUST trust them.
The last thing that I will say is that... When a teenager or son or daughter chooses to tell you something so personal, so taboo, so painful, and a complete contradiction to what they grew up with- They're doing it because they have no other choice. Coming out to you, in her eyes, is the biggest most scary gamble they've ever made. Its an act of faith in you, or because they were so desperate because they can't do this alone. Don't break that faith, and do not make them regret telling you their most painful secret.
Its true. Your fears are logical. The problem is that they probably don't have a choice. The only way to live a life where you don't think the thoughts, "Why am I not a girl? Why was I born like this? This isn't real," All the time 24/7, is to just do it and be what your mind is pushing you to do. In the end, if you deny yourself, you become twice as miserable. If you deny who you are and what you feel like you should be, the pain will be exponentially worse than having a bigot make fun of you.
Your kid is going to have a rough time, but the alternative is a constant never-ending growth-stunted miserable life. They will likely walk this tough road no matter what is done to interfere with their progress. So walk it with them as a mother hand in hand with a quirky daughter, yet loving daughter nonetheless.
If you are curious about what my status is. I am 19 years old and male to female. I've been on hormone replacement therapy for almost a year now. My brain has never felt more comfortable with itself than it is now. Sure I get mood swings, but they're manageable. My doubts about myself usually come from the years and years of living as a male contradicting with my transition, but they never ever last. I am going to art school if I can this fall, and I'm going to go as a girl. My fears about my friends all ditching me, or sending a lynch mob to my house with torches were never really realized. Transsexuality is becoming more mainstream.
Good luck, and be proud of your child. They have risked everything to tell you this, and it means that they still do hold respect for you deep down.
-Kara
Don't do what my own mother did and reject me totally as a human being. Not only did she do that, as a catholic, she went to the church and let it be known that I was not to be spoken to etc and that I was perverted.
Instead, be there for your child, try not to destroy yourself because you are not the cause rather it is the mystery of human biology, allow her to find a way through the minefield of teenage emotion, puberty and keep a respectful distance from what is a private matter.
Closeness to my parents was an irrelevence, too complicated to go into here but my father was ex military and ran the home in a similar manner and my mother has already been mentioned hence to say that I was not close to either of them. My own transgendered state of being is one of those 'mysteries of human biology' and perhaps some day answers may be forthcoming to all of us. I only wish my mother hadn't rejected me as I would have welcomed female guidance when I was 18 instead of feeling my own way in life.
If your child seeks your councel, then at least you will be there when that time comes and that is what matters most for the both of you. Thank you for approaching us and best wishes.
First off, I would just like to say that you're really cool for taking the initiative to learn about this instead of freaking out about it. Sadly waaaay too many trans kids end up being rejected.
Quote from: momoftrans on January 26, 2009, 10:09:19 AMI've been reading all I can about ->-bleeped-<-, etc. but the more I learn, the more confused I get. The lastest theory I read was that MtF transgenders identify too closely to their mother and have a distant relationship with their father and that contributes to their wanting to be like their mother. (something like that) This strikes me a bit too simplistic but I have to admit that it fits our family dynamic.
The theory you are referring to was developed by Dr. Joseph Nicolosi of NARTH, a "research" organisation with close ties to faith-based ex-gay programs such as Focus on the Family. He still champions reparative therapy and aversion therapy, both long discredited by mainstream psychology. Apart from a handful of psychologists with a similar ... view of the world, his theories are pretty-much discredited by everybody else. You had nothing to do with your child being transsexual. Transsexuality is a well-documented biological condition. The first concrete indications were made public in the late 70's when a Dutch team of researchers examining the brains of deceased transsexuals found that the BSTi region of the hypothalamus of male-to-female transsexuals corresponded in size to that of biological women, while the reverse was true of female-to-males, who exhibited a male structure. This research has since been complemented by a number of other findings, most recently in 2008 that there are possible genetic components in both MtF and FtM cases. There's no smoking gun yet, and most likely it will be found that transsexuality is the result of a number of different influences and factors, but the verdict is in: We're born this way.
I've been collecting links to research papers and articles and stuff ever since I came out of the closet, and I maintain a page at my blog. I'll PM you.
I was quite solitary by nature, and preferred to spend my time reading or building lego. That said, I was closer to my mom than my dad, though not for lack of both trying to get me to take an interest in stuff my dad did. I simply identified more strongly with my mom and took much more of an interest in typical "girl stuff". He-man and Skeletor sat down for tea instead of fighting it out, I wanted to be a mommy one day, and I was always keen to "help" my mom in the kitchen. She wasn't so keen, seeing as my ambitions far exceeded my abilities. ;)
I just knew from as early as I can remember that I was like her and my aunts and older female cousins more than I was like my dad or any of the other males in my life, though I didn't really understand what that meant till I went to school, and realised that everybody was crazy, because they kept insisting that I was a boy. I kept fighting that insistence until I hit puberty - when my body started developing in the wrong direction it just shut me down.
Mina.
You sound like a wonderful mum to have!
Just wanted to add something new that others have not really touched upon. Just because they are trans does not give them a right to be disrespectful.
I'm assuming they are MtF? I am not sure if anyone can really understand what it is like. All I can say is it hurts bad. Just know that they are hurting but it is very possible for them to resolve these feelings and go on to live a productive and happy life.
My advise is to get them in with a good gender therapist and go talk to the same therapist yourself. You need support too. It is way too easy to beat up on yourself about this but it really is not your fault at all. There is nothing you could have done to forsee or prevent it happening. I think a huge step is realising that they are not really a he and never were (I am making assumptions here that they are MtF as there are different kind of transgendered individuals). Some people never mange it. It is ok to grieve for the child you thought you had.
Best of luck to you, keep asking questions, keep talking to your child. Get yourself some support. You can't support your kid if you are a wreck.
Quote from: momoftrans on January 26, 2009, 10:09:19 AM
My son recently told me he is a transgender. I am trying so hard to do and say the right things but (although I'm sure he doesn't realize it) I'm so depressed and scared for him and his future that I can barely function. He is 18 years old and he is very rude and disrespectful to me although I have always been a loving mother to him.
I've been reading all I can about ->-bleeped-<-, etc. but the more I learn, the more confused I get. The lastest theory I read was that MtF transgenders identify too closely to their mother and have a distant relationship with their father and that contributes to their wanting to be like their mother. (something like that) This strikes me a bit too simplistic but I have to admit that it fits our family dynamic.
Please don't take offense to this but I have an overwhelming guilt that somehow I contributed by being too close to my son. (and he will have to struggle with this because of his parents) Would some of you (MtF) mind telling if you were close to your mother but not your dad?
Thank you! Just trying to understand.
Welcome to Susan's i think that you will find many of the answers you are looking for right here. Sure you can consult with the medical professionals and they would probably be more than willing to give you their clinical opinions, but to get to the heart of the matter talk the membership here. There is a wealth of information here, some good, and some, well lets say not so good :) The most important thing to remember is that you had nothing to do with the way he is. It has nothing to do with his upbringing, his diet, religion, issues in the womb, etc. It is purely a condition/disorder/disphoria whatever that he is neurologically burdened with and realistically there is only one path he can take to achieve happiness.
Just a couple of questions.
Is he in therapy?
Has he been diagnosed?
steph
Quote from: Nicky on January 26, 2009, 03:45:56 PM
My advise is to get them in with a good gender therapist and go talk to the same therapist yourself.
I'm always hesitant to say this, but it might not be such a good idea to see the same therapist, at least not individually (group/family counseling might be okay). As an angry and distrustful eighteen-year-old, I would have had HUGE problems trusting someone who was also seeing my mother. This might not be a problem for other people, but I thought I should say something just in case.
Momoftrans, try to be as nonjudgmental, loving, and understanding as you can. Your child needs your support. (And you need some, too, so Susan's is a good place to start!)
Welcome.
hello.
good luck with this, as he goes along the process they are likely to become i right bolshy sod. But you will get a happier child at the end.
I was always close to both of my parents. So no, that does not fit me. In fact, i had only brothers, and lots of pressure to do the masculine thing. So I don't put much stock in that theory.
You are obviously a great mom for coming here and wanting to learn. My hope and prayer for you is that you might be able to rebuild a new relationship with your child, and that you would find a counselor who would give you some good strategies for dealing with your child.
FWIW, being a parent of an 18 year old is tough! I've been through it twice and I am finally getting smarter every year.
Best wishes,
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
Quote from: momoftrans on January 26, 2009, 10:09:19 AM
Please don't take offense to this but I have an overwhelming guilt that somehow I contributed by being too close to my son. (and he will have to struggle with this because of his parents) Would some of you (MtF) mind telling if you were close to your mother but not your dad?
Thank you! Just trying to understand.
You're getting a lot of feedback, and it's absolutely great that you're looking for as much info as you can :)
I just came out to my mom a couple months ago. I've always felt closer to her, but, hardly as close as my best friend (who is most certainly male) is to his mother. Anyway, I will tell you what I tried to explain to my mom when she tried to apologize to me. There is absolutely nothing you did do or did not do that caused, or could have caused, this.
When I told my mom, she told me she felt sorry for not picking up on it. That she should have seen something, or known somehow, I was trans and then would have been able to do something about it. But the thing is, I've spent most of my life desperately trying to hide how I've felt. There were no signs to miss, and even if she picked up on something I would have been so mortified that anyone noticed, I would have quickly denied anything.
It took me until I was almost 24 to admit to myself that this was a real part of who I was, and that the life I was living wasn't my own. It took me 6 months from that point to find the courage to see a therapist, and another 6 months after that to come out to my mom.
I would also stress that this brings a lot of difficult emotions to work through, and there are certain things that I'm not comfortable talking about with my mom right now...that doesn't mean I don't want to talk to her, it's just difficult to. Personally I don't like answering "I don't know" but sometimes that's the answer. I'm sure sometimes that comes across as being distant or indecisive, though hopefully not rude or disrespectful.
Anyway, I hope you find some support or answers here or elsewhere, and I wish you the best of luck :)
Oh and...
Quote from: Arch on January 26, 2009, 07:17:40 PM
Quote from: Nicky on January 26, 2009, 03:45:56 PM
My advise is to get them in with a good gender therapist and go talk to the same therapist yourself.
I'm always hesitant to say this, but it might not be such a good idea to see the same therapist, at least not individually (group/family counseling might be okay). As an angry and distrustful eighteen-year-old, I would have had HUGE problems trusting someone who was also seeing my mother. This might not be a problem for other people, but I thought I should say something just in case.
When I was a teenager and my mom suggested I see a specific therapist for entirely different reasons, my first thoughts were "oh no, she thinks there's something wrong with me, hide it better" followed shortly by "anything I tell this person is going to get back to my mom word for word, so I better pad my answers". It was an entirely unhealthy and irrational way to think about it, but that's how my mind was working at the time. I just want to put it out there. Seeing a therapist is absolutely important, but if she (assuming that's how your child identifies) isn't already seeing a gender therapist, maybe offer help in finding one but try not to be too pushy with anything specific.
Also, PFLAG has resources for transgender individuals, and their family and friends. I'm still trying to get myself and my mom available for when PFLAG meets.
Dear Momoftrans
I know in my case the idea about being close to my mom had nothing to do with me being trans my mother wasn't a part of my life till i was about 8 years old and she wasn't much involved after that. my mother isn't a bad person she just had children at a very young age and she had many problems of her own. I can say that I wish that my mom would have been there for me to talk to and I wish she could show the kind of support you are showing for your daughter.
I really have no direct suggestions on how to deal with this within your family but first and foremost I would say talking to your daughter is the best way to start and you could decied together what the next steps should be. As far as your self blame goes all I can say is that you have raised a child who is evidentally a very self aware individual who knows who she really is and the idea of "blaming yourself" in some ways can cast an idea that there is thought that there is something wrong with her that needs blamed on someone. Instead of looking for blame in my humble opinion it may make her feel so much better if you tried to help her celerbrate her individuality and be proud that you have raised such a self aware child.
As a parent myself I know that we fear for our childrens future at all times and we want to protect them from all the pain and strife they may face in the world unfortunately we can not always protect them from the world but we can let them know that we will always do whatever we can to help them cope with the pain they will face and we hope that can be enough!
First, and foremost. I respect you greatly for trying to learn about this condition.
Second, well...
Quote from: momoftrans on January 26, 2009, 10:09:19 AM
The lastest theory I read...
I certainly hope that theory was by someone NOT identifying as transsexual because frankly ... it's not even close to what I understand of this condition.
So, to explain as I understand it, simply I believe this to be akin to an intesex condition, specifically that the M2F's (or F2M for that matter) brain (structure?) Differs from that of a "normal" boy or girl. Specifically in my case I was born with a seemingly normal male body. I lived a seemingly normal male life. (simplified granted) but, in reality, I was doing my best to "do what boys do", not because it was natural but because it was expected. (an some of it I never could get right, sadly); Normal behavior was not "natural" to me because I was a girl, pretending to be a boy and indeed believing herself to BE a boy. This ended up causing me a great deal of emotional pain in my life to put it simply. Note, no on is at fault for this, not a single soul.. CERTAINLY NOT my mother nor father (with out their love I would have suicided age 17 or so because I could not deal with this (to my view) misshapen body.)
oh, to answer your inquiry, I've always been closer to my father, and I still am.
I would like to comment that I am saddened by your child's behavior but to explain myself and my behavior in an attempt to perhaps explain a bit. I had an anger problem previously. Specifically basically over stressed induced I suppose. But I was always fairly close to .. harsh action. This said, never was this directed at my parents (as again they are why I am alive
still and I love and respect them more than words can convey.) but this anger did find unfortunate outlets. (Not quite a tantrum so much but very much single-minded accomplishing of some goal, and if that meant ripping the house apart then so be it. ... A leave of one's senses as it were. Certainly not things I am proud of by any means.) Mostly it manifested in me throwing things in anger.
So, anyway I can assure you that me being a girl born in a boy suit is not, to the best of my understanding, the fault of my mother nor father (nor anyone else.)
I hope this is of some value. Best of luck...
Quote from: momoftrans on January 26, 2009, 10:09:19 AM
My son recently told me he is a transgender. I am trying so hard to do and say the right things but (although I'm sure he doesn't realize it) I'm so depressed and scared for him and his future that I can barely function. He is 18 years old and he is very rude and disrespectful to me although I have always been a loving mother to him.
Thats all that matters, remain that loving Mom no matter what happens.
Please dont try to understand why or how transsexualism happens, not even the medical profession can do that, just accept that this is something that exists and has to be treated.
My own Mother and Father disowned me as my Father really thought it was partly his fault. There is no blame, just an overwhelming need for continued love, support and acceptance of your Son.
Rebecca
Quote from: momoftrans on January 26, 2009, 10:09:19 AM
My son recently told me he is a transgender. I am trying so hard to do and say the right things but (although I'm sure he doesn't realize it) I'm so depressed and scared for him and his future that I can barely function. He is 18 years old and he is very rude and disrespectful to me although I have always been a loving mother to him.
I've been reading all I can about ->-bleeped-<-, etc. but the more I learn, the more confused I get. The lastest theory I read was that MtF transgenders identify too closely to their mother and have a distant relationship with their father and that contributes to their wanting to be like their mother. (something like that) This strikes me a bit too simplistic but I have to admit that it fits our family dynamic.
Please don't take offense to this but I have an overwhelming guilt that somehow I contributed by being too close to my son. (and he will have to struggle with this because of his parents) Would some of you (MtF) mind telling if you were close to your mother but not your dad?
Thank you! Just trying to understand.
The whole strong mother/weak father issue has been clinically shown time and again to be false.
No one really knows the cause of transsexuality. All believe that it is in the brain while in the fetus is developing.
We are born this way, we do not contract transsexuality like the common cold. Think about it, when did you decide that you were straight? Obviously you never did. It is something you always knew. It is the same with transsexuals. Most of us "know" it from our youngest days. You'll see that here in many of our discussions online.
Your love and support will help you and your child go through the rocky road to help them come to terms with the issues and to get proper help. Take your child to a doctor and a therapist to help identify all the issues.
The rudeness and disrespect may be a function of feeling lonely or cut off. It is quite normal to feel isolated and that you are the only one. As they go through therapy the relationship may become less strained as they learn that they aren't the only one and they you are really trying to help them and are there for them.
Please, get help for yourself and for your child. This isn't an easy issue. But it can be dealt with.
Also have them come to this forum. Have them learn that they aren't the only one and that there are others who not only survive, but thrive with this "blessing inside a curse".
And do not be afraid to ask questions. That is the only way to learn.
-Sandy
Quote from: Nero on January 26, 2009, 10:43:17 AM
I think this is a 'chicken or egg' situation. Are mtfs transsexual because they were closer to their moms?
Or were mtfs closer to their moms because they were transsexual (girls)?
Very True.
He is probably agressive and angry as he is a teenager.
I dont believe we are who we are because of our parents relationships with us.
all i can add to this wonderful advice is, i was NEVER close to my maternal parent, because of the way i was treated by her growing up i tell people i don't have a mother because tbh, she was NEVER very motherly to me. until i got married and moved out of town she has always had her nose in our business trying to control our lives. she doesn't see her grandkids because of it. we have a newborn son and as far as i know, she knows nothing about him, and i could really care less if she does. my kids seriously do NOT miss her and NEITHER does my wife.
I haven't even heard back from momoftrans but perhaps she's still on here reading some of these messages.
20 year old, MtF, pre-op.
I went from this:
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To this:
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The changes happen. Just like that. You won't even recognise your kid a few years after she's started unless you're watching it happen. Dramatic, intense, years from now breath taking, you'll be watching her break out of a shell she's lived in her entire life to start EXPRESSING herself, moving her own course in life. It won't be just in looks, but in attitude. Up until. now, whatever she does, what's it for? After she feels she's becoming herself, every single thing she does will be filled with the motivation that she's investing into herself to affirm her identity and make way to a brighter future. work, college, relationships, etc, all the things a parent worries about, she'll get figured out in a heart beat.
My parents kicked me out at 15 years old for trying.
It's been 5 years and I still wonder what I'd be like if they'd supported me. Being out on my own so early taught me a lot of things, and I've finally settled down with a stable job and a good class schedule for college: WITHOUT THEM.
I'll never speak to my parents again, and I'll despise them for the rest of my life.
You can't tell your son you love him for his entire life, only to withdraw that love as he becomes she, as she changes to someone you're not comfortable with. Your love shouldn't be subjective to the simplistic choices she makes for herself.
She wants that love, badly. She wants that support.
It will happen regardless. It will happen, a tidal wave coming over her life. Even if you don't support it, don't stop it. Get her out into college, teach her about work and jobs and money, and then let her loose and see what she decides to do.
And yes, it is your fault.
Regardless if you contributed to the genes required, or the circumstances as she grew up, somewhere along the way she picked it up and it was either from those who raised her or gave birth to her, or most likely BOTH.
That established, it's not a bad thing. It's just not normal. Sure you'd like to have your SON doing HIS thing, getting a trophy wife and seeing his success making you happy.
Well, if my parents could see me now and get over that I was a chick, they'd see a 20 year old with her own house and an undergrad degree, shopping around for a grad school so 3 years from now she'd be a doctor. They'd see someone well in control of her morality, emotions, and someone who's cast iron in that she's got the maturity to weather just about anything life throws at her: all at 20 years old.
What would they have liked to seen? A 20 year old Marine ready to die for his country, politically blind to republican issues only and getting some poor woman pregnant every 10 months for a decade.
I think I've done better for myself than what they were expecting. They'll never be around to see it though. Do not let yourself make that same mistake.
Hi,
I am a mom of a FTM trans who found out 9 months ago and I'm still bewildered. I am depressed, sad, confused! When I first found out I cried for days and looked everywhere for explanations and for support. My child treats us (my husband and I) rudely as well. We do everything for thbis child. She/He wants me to use the He pronoun, but I just CANT!!!! It is killing me to see her turn into a male. She is now on testosterone shots (which I administer, I'm a nurse) she goes to an Endocrinologist and a psychiatrist on a regular basis. I don't know what more to do except get up everyday and remember to breathe! I hope that you find more help than I have because there are days when I feel like I'm all alone out here.
Sasha
Momoftrans, I can only hope that when I tell my mother she's as supportive and curious as you are!
I was always introverted as a child and preferred to be by myself playing with my legos, building little cities with people and basically playing analouge "Sims" with them. But I was indeed closer to my mother as a child. That was mainly because my father was in the military and died when I was 13, leaving my mother and I alone with my two brothers. Having to take the "father" role in the house was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, especially when I preferred to think of myself as more of a second mother than a "father".
Like everyone else has said, there isn't anything You did to make your daughter the way she is, she's just her and there's not much else that can be said about her. I am much the same way.
Best of luck with your daughter and I hope everything works out well for the two of you!
~holly
Quote from: Sasha2 on January 27, 2009, 01:14:35 PM
Hi,
I am a mom of a FTM trans who found out 9 months ago and I'm still bewildered. I am depressed, sad, confused! When I first found out I cried for days and looked everywhere for explanations and for support. My child treats us (my husband and I) rudely as well. We do everything for thbis child. She/He wants me to use the He pronoun, but I just CANT!!!! It is killing me to see her turn into a male. She is now on testosterone shots (which I administer, I'm a nurse) she goes to an Endocrinologist and a psychiatrist on a regular basis. I don't know what more to do except get up everyday and remember to breathe! I hope that you find more help than I have because there are days when I feel like I'm all alone out here.
Sasha
Dear Sasha
You comment that your SON is rude to you and your husband. I am sorry if this comes off as rude but refering to your son as she/he doesn't strike me as exactly respectful to him. You state that you do everything for this child but then you say that you cannot bring yourself to use the he pronoun. if you read through some threads on here you will notice that some of the people are even ok with being treated rudely as long as they are treated as thier true gender. there is one thread that talks about being called valgur names and the people actually at least appreciated the fact that the names that were used were for thier true gender (when I say true gender I mean what most people call target gender). you say you do everything for your child but the things you refuse to do and refuse to accept may be the only things that truely matter to him.
One thing you might want to try to accept is that your child is not becomming a man he is already a man with a type of birth defect ( no different than someone born with an extra toe or an abnormal growth). the only differance is that this particular defect happens to be how most people choose to identify someones gender. if he had a growth that caused people to look at him in ways that made him uncomfortable and he felt it was ruining his life would you not want hm to get the treatment to improve the quility of his life?
I am not trying to be mean or rude I understand that this must be very hard for you but can you even imagine how your son feels to be known as she and her when He knows that is wrong for him? try an experiment if you are willing try going out in the world pretending to be the oppisite sex (in your case pretending to be a man) interact with people as the oppisite sex would and try to be completely accepted as the oppisite sex for a complete week. if you do this experiment it will give you an idea of what your son has had to deal with for his entire life up to this point. I know pretending to be the oppisite sex makes most people uncomfortable and that is the whole point pretending to be the oppisite sex makes your son uncomfortable as well.
I can understand you feeling alone and I do feel bad for you but just remember that your son feels completely alone too!
Quote from: Sasha2 on January 27, 2009, 01:14:35 PM
Hi,
I am a mom of a FTM trans who found out 9 months ago and I'm still bewildered. I am depressed, sad, confused! When I first found out I cried for days and looked everywhere for explanations and for support. My child treats us (my husband and I) rudely as well. We do everything for thbis child. She/He wants me to use the He pronoun, but I just CANT!!!! It is killing me to see her turn into a male. She is now on testosterone shots (which I administer, I'm a nurse) she goes to an Endocrinologist and a psychiatrist on a regular basis. I don't know what more to do except get up everyday and remember to breathe! I hope that you find more help than I have because there are days when I feel like I'm all alone out here.
Sasha
Whats more important? Having a little princess, or a kid who loves you for you accepting the trust they placed in you for that painful moment of coming out?
As long as the love is still there, what does it honestly matter? Most FtMs end up passing no problem. They're still a human being, and it may be hard to see him change, but he's only changing PHYSICALLY. Its important to them, their physical perception of themself... But it doesn't have to matter to you, because to be affected by something so trivial as a body when you love the PERSON INSIDE for who they are, and not what they look like... Thats slightly shallow.
Stop mourning someone who's been there standing in front of you the whole time, he's still alive and will not be as disrespectful when the right pronouns are used. Respect goes both ways, even with kids, and its understandable that they would act that way when being called a girl, which totally ruins and demoralizes him. By default you're being just as disrespectful. I know its hard to see this happening, and you're scared, but kids don't just do this for no reason. Most people are too terrified to transition and it shows massive courage on their part doing this.
Etiology, where things derive, is always an interesting puzzle. The puzzle more and more appears to be one of biological causation that prolly, at least researchers haven't yet found a link, is NOT hereditary. It could well be environmental in regard to the increased amounts of estrogenous compounds the chemical industry has placed into the environment over the past ninety years.
Although, with increased population one would still expect to see the presumed proportion of TS people rise. There's no evidence that we have in that time period. There's a lot of evidence that more and more of us are discovering who we are for the past fifty years due to first print media and TV and now to the vast increase in computer-generated information available to more and more people.
Momoftrans, the etiology you mentioned in your initial post is one put forth and defended vehemently by one Dr. Paul McHugh who retired as the chairman of the psychiatric department at Johns Hopkins University. As a devout Catholic he has advised the current and previous Popes on matters of transsexuality. He appears to find the entire notion of a biologically mixed-sex child abhorrent and impossible, although various degrees of body intersex have been historically verified for millenia: children born with anomalous and mixed genitalia. One doesn't need too much of a stretch to think that the basic dimorphism of the brain can be subject to the exact same syndromes as those of the body.
Dr. McHugh is easily discovered on the internet by a simple googling of his name. Various scientists and people who disagree with Dr. McHugh are also findable there as well.
For information be sure to check out the Wiki (https://www.susans.org/wiki/Main_Page) feature at Susans. You may also find transsexual/transgender information at tsroadmap.com (http://www.tsroadmap.com/) and at the reconstruction of an old informational site GID.com (http://freerochester.org/GIDinfo/index.htm).
I would tend to agree with Arch, as he said above, that a gender therapist separate from one your daughter uses is a good idea. As a therapist I can tell you that any ethical therapist in the USA will not work you both simultaneously as the conflict-of-interests there is too large to overcome. She/he will not be able to work in such a way as to benefit the both of you without some severe issues about who her patient is and to whom she should be "loyal." Instead she/he may well have a few family-sessions to get a feel for how you interact, etc. But the patient will only be one of you.
As Kassandra said the schizophrenogenic mother (http://www.bipolarworld.net/Phelps/ph_2003/ph1085.htm) has basically been relegated to the psychiatric dust-heap of history. Modern Attachment Theorists (http://www.personalityresearch.org/attachment.html) have made good cases for certain ways in which people find attachment from infancy onward. But the notion that parental distance or closeness having anything at all to do with homosexuality, heterosexuality or transsexuality are debunked and will hopefuly be dead forever once Dr. McHugh and his acolytes have passed from the scene.
Neither they, nor most of their followers, seem to toss these terms around to deal with fathers, families or groups and how children attach to those other than the mother. The main line these days sees that child-rearing is not simply the responsibility of the mother alone, regardless how that may play-out in some families.
In other words: try to forgive yourself. You haven't "caused" your child to be transsexual. The chances are infinitely greater that a biological quirk that is a random anomaly within the human gene-pool (think of a computer glitch that shows up occasionally but that no one can manage to "de-bug" and never propagates itself) and/or a result of high environmental concentrations of estrogenic and other steroidal compunds due to intensive uses of fertlizers, medicines, and other chemical agents our cultures use constantly to produce goods and services have caused your child's condition.
All that said, working on your relationship with your daughter is a very good idea. Of course that would be a good idea regardless of your child's sex. Best to you both.
Nichole
ALL kids are disrespectful to their parents.
It's the struggle of a teenager to want to be independent but still be legally and financially bound to the parental unit, so of course without a fully mature brain the blame goes directly to the parents>.>
Can't help it, it's just part of raising a teenager.
Thank god I'll never have to.
If I COULD be your kid for an afternoon, I definitely would give you a big thanks and tell you what an awesome parent you are. In fact, I think they would too if they could take a step back and get away from their struggle for identity and autonomy and crap.
Every year on mother's I go out with my godfather's wife and spend about $300 getting her dinner and wine and cake and coffee, cuz even though she only filled the role of being a mother for 3 years for me, I'll always be grateful.
WOW!!! You guys really are a supportive group. Thanks soooo much for all the feedback. It's just a lot to understand and come to terms with. I can only imagine how all of you (including my son) feel. Hugs to you all. :icon_hug:
For now, I still call him my son. He is not openly dressing, etc. If that happens then I will. He is starting counseling - hopefully, that will help him sort things out. Thanks for all your kind words!
Quote from: momoftrans on January 27, 2009, 04:12:07 PM
WOW!!! You guys really are a supportive group. Thanks soooo much for all the feedback. It's just a lot to understand and come to terms with. I can only imagine how all of you (including my son) feel. Hugs to you all. :icon_hug:
For now, I still call him my son. He is not openly dressing, etc. If that happens then I will. He is starting counseling - hopefully, that will help him sort things out. Thanks for all your kind words!
no problem. My last word would be to just ASK THEM what they are more comfortable being called. Sometimes they need a little more confidence... Especially with dressing up. My first time walking around the mall with my friend in make up as a girl was absolutely terrifying, and I wouldn't have been able to do it if it weren't for my friend being there with me.
The sizes, the shapes, the clothes, the makeup, and mannerisms and subtleties are a whole new language and custom to get used to. When I was first coming to terms with all of this... I secretly wished my mom would just help me and tell me all of the secrets of femininity, and I hardly really got it. Your kid is going to really want advice on girl-stuff in general, especially since they're so many years behind with the madness of growing up as a girl. Tell them that you will answer whatever questions they have about being a girl. Things will get better. Later!
Quote from: momoftrans on January 27, 2009, 04:12:07 PM
WOW!!! You guys really are a supportive group. Thanks soooo much for all the feedback. It's just a lot to understand and come to terms with. I can only imagine how all of you (including my son) feel. Hugs to you all. :icon_hug:
For now, I still call him my son. He is not openly dressing, etc. If that happens then I will. He is starting counseling - hopefully, that will help him sort things out. Thanks for all your kind words!
I am sure you will both do great and find a way for things to work for you both good luck!
Interesting thread, but I have to leave for now so I will say "Hi mommy!" :icon_wave:
"Sheeeesh I might even be old enough to be your mom, "hee, hee, hee."
63 going on 16. Be back later to read the rest of the posts.
Cindy
Quote from: momoftrans on January 27, 2009, 04:12:07 PM
WOW!!! You guys really are a supportive group. Thanks soooo much for all the feedback. It's just a lot to understand and come to terms with. I can only imagine how all of you (including my son) feel. Hugs to you all. :icon_hug:
For now, I still call him my son. He is not openly dressing, etc. If that happens then I will. He is starting counseling - hopefully, that will help him sort things out. Thanks for all your kind words!
Thank you for trusting us enough to post your own feelings and thoughts, momoftrans. :) That isn't an easy thing to do either.
You come here hoping that we'll be able to give you some answers about something that's come as a huge shock and is prolly a bit devastating to you as well. And on top of that you have what you've heard and have imagined which, all too often, can be even more frightening than hearing your child say they are irretrievably "different" than whomever you had dreamt and hoped them to someday be.
That's a lot of shock, wonder and confusion to hit pretty suddenly! As a parent myself I can imagine it's been horrific for you.
I'll be honest, I thank Mother every day that my own children have never shown any sign of any kind that they are transsexual/transgender or even homosexual. It's not that I'd be horrified of any of that. And at least I'd have some experience in dealing with my own life that they might find helpful and positive.
No, what would kill me, I think, is the knowledge of how difficult and lonely and terrifying this condition can be, especially when I was younger. As a mother you're fortunate that your child lives in a time when she isn't automatically rejected as insane or ridiculous by everyone.
As is, it can still be a hard life to experience. Hopefully when our grandchildren have this possibility many more changes will have come for the good in how society views and interacts with transsexual and transgender people. :)
Bless you for coming here. You've given us all the chance to maybe make a positive difference for both another trans-person, but also for her mother. That's a great and good gift itself. :icon_hug:
Nichole
Hi momoftrans,
I think most things have been covered by all the others.
I love both my Mom and Dad and have a good relationship with them, they do not know that I am trans but I did tell my wife about a year ago, we have been married for 22 years and have a daughter and a grand daughter, my wife has been supportive and that is great.
I must say though that get your son/ new daughter help from a therapist and diagnosed, then proceed with what is right for her while she is still young, it wll be best that way, do not wait, now is the time, I wish I had taken my advise when I was younger. Take care and encourage her to take the steps needed now to make the conflict inside become peace, I know a lot of my anger was from the conflict I feel inside. Aloha.
Tina
Quote from: momoftrans on January 27, 2009, 04:12:07 PM
WOW!!! You guys really are a supportive group. Thanks soooo much for all the feedback. It's just a lot to understand and come to terms with. I can only imagine how all of you (including my son) feel. Hugs to you all. :icon_hug:
For now, I still call him my son. He is not openly dressing, etc. If that happens then I will. He is starting counseling - hopefully, that will help him sort things out. Thanks for all your kind words!
Thank you for asking us. I hope you and your child come through this with as little grief as is possible.
Hugses,
Mina.
Remember ... your child is your child... it should never ever matter what gender they are... also there really is no gender there is only a bell curve of what it is to be male or female...there are so many variations of phenotypical and hormonal and chromosomal people that there is no pure male or female.... we have feminine men and masculine women and many women become more male like after menopaus and many men become female like after losing testosterone as they grow older.. i said many not all.. there is not set stereotype of what a male is or a female and we all will change over the course of our own lives too.. just love the spirit and share that love while the spirit still has a body to be able to give you recognition that you love them because after they are gone they will be without a body and they will still love you but they won't be able to tell you so unless you are like a few who can and do relate to those on the other side.. jesus says let those who can hear hear jesus could hear those from the other side. Thats why jesus wasn't scared of dying.
I commend you for coming HERE for advice. You've come to the right place. Why? Transsexual people know far more than any medical professional every could about actually being transsexual ... unless they, themselves, are TS.
Everybody here has answered you so marvelously, especially JENNIFER and Kara. Of particular importance, Kara said:
Its true. Your fears are logical. The problem is that they probably don't have a choice. The only way to live a life where you don't think the thoughts, "Why am I not a girl? Why was I born like this? This isn't real," All the time 24/7, is to just do it and be what your mind is pushing you to do. In the end, if you deny yourself, you become twice as miserable. If you deny who you are and what you feel like you should be, the pain will be exponentially worse than having a bigot make fun of you.
Your kid is going to have a rough time, but the alternative is a constant never-ending growth-stunted miserable life. They will likely walk this tough road no matter what is done to interfere with their progress. So walk it with them as a mother hand in hand with a quirky daughter, yet loving daughter nonetheless.
Wow. Marvelous, marevlous advice, Kara! Mom, there's your answer ... right there.
These gals (female brains here, remember) have all offered you such fantastic insight. Get knowledge here and apply it with love for your child. I must say, however, that your child may take a while to overcome internal turmoil. If he (she) were my child, at an appropriate time, I would mention that appropriately good manners are best for everyone, because they help us all get along well. Just my two-cents worth. Hope I haven't offended you in any way.
Good luck!
Hugs!