I found this video about the gender diversity of the Bugis people of South Sulawesi, Indonesia posted at http://genderfork.com/ (http://genderfork.com/) and thought it might be of interest to some of you. I hope you enjoy it.
If you haven't seen the Genderfork (http://"http://genderfork.com/") site before, I hope you enjoy that also.
~Shannon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9VmLJ3niVo#noexternalembed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9VmLJ3niVo#noexternalembed)
Thanks for the video link Shannon. I particularly like the part where they said if all five genders aren't present, then the world is out of balance.
I would really love to live in a world that accepted and celebrated my existence.
Z
that's an interesting site...spose that makes me Bissu.
That video was very good.
very good. I had a moment where I considered going to live with them.
Thanks for posting sweetie. Very cool.
Mina.
That is pretty cool. No need to fear the Bugi - man or woman :laugh:
A truly interesting video
Quote from: Rebis on February 09, 2009, 10:28:47 PM
That video was very good.
very good. I had a moment where I considered going to live with them.
They'd likely recognize you as their long lost leader ;)
Z
Quote from: Zythyra on February 10, 2009, 07:23:25 AM
They'd likely recognize you as their long lost leader ;)
Z
I wish. "Bring me some sweets, my sweets!"
Quote from: Zythyra on February 09, 2009, 04:56:49 PM
I particularly like the part where they said if all five genders aren't present, then the world is out of balance.
This part really got my attention too. And I also believe it to be true, whether it is in regards to trans/homophobia, misogyny, or even lesbian/feminist separatism.
I think humanity does itself a great disservice whenever people start assuming that members of one gender are somehow superior to to the members of all other genders.
Quote from: KYLYKaHYT on February 12, 2009, 09:07:56 AM
This part really got my attention too. And I also believe it to be true, whether it is in regards to trans/homophobia, misogyny, or even lesbian/feminist separatism.
I think humanity does itself a great disservice whenever people start assuming that members of one gender are somehow superior to to the members of all other genders.
Absolutely agreed! I believe the world will be a better place when we accept and celebrate the wonderful diversity among our fellow humans and other life forms.
OK, I know I'm probably sounding all new agey hippie here ;D
Z
Quote from: Zythyra on February 12, 2009, 12:06:58 PM
OK, I know I'm probably sounding all new agey hippie here ;D
burn the witch >:-)
Quote from: Pica Pica on February 12, 2009, 03:31:13 PM
burn the witch >:-)
Jealous ?
I think that too, people should be more understanding/compassionate.
I've been talking with people I'd call "Real men" and they're like "destroy the weak, take what you want, power, money and sex is all that matters" and I am about the opposite.
It makes me a bit sad.
Quote from: ZaidaZadkiel on February 14, 2009, 08:02:11 PM
Jealous ?
I think that too, people should be more understanding/compassionate.
I've been talking with people I'd call "Real men" and they're like "destroy the weak, take what you want, power, money and sex is all that matters" and I am about the opposite.
It makes me a bit sad.
the world stinks mostly due to fatheads like that.
that and the women who are all push up the boobs, use sex to get what you want, manipulate men and then get mad at them for it...yeah.
basically, it's everybody else's fault ?
exactly!
Quote from: ZaidaZadkiel on February 14, 2009, 11:21:00 PM
basically, it's everybody else's fault ?
you're catching on! ;D
Quote from: Zythyra on February 12, 2009, 12:06:58 PM
Absolutely agreed! I believe the world will be a better place when we accept and celebrate the wonderful diversity among our fellow humans and other life forms.
OK, I know I'm probably sounding all new agey hippie here ;D
Z
Preaching to the choir honey!
But it's true and no one wants to hear it as it would require them to look outside of their comfort zone and in doing so threatening that comfort zone. And most people are too weak and scared to do that. I blame TV. ... uummm yeah. I really want to learn the ultimate questions to put people on the spot and make them justify their beliefs/opinions on 'alternative lifestyles' and the life going on outside of their boxes that they deem strange. The clever spoken word eludes me more often than not. hhmmmff.
With respect that video is not at all representative of Indonesia. Try being transgender in Aceh and you put your life at risk.
Even in Jakarta most transgender people one sees (waria) are sadly involved in prostitution. Believe me this is the truth, I have Indonesian family and know more than a few Indonesian Gays and Lesbians both here in the West and back in Java.
Worse still since the recent introduction of the "anti pornografi" legislation such behaviour is now together with homosexuality illegal throughout ALL regions of Indonesia and liable to prosecution or worse.
Sorry for the downer but sadly reality is far from the idyllic situation portrayed in that video.
I thought the video only represented one fairly well isolated tribe.
Quote from: Rebis on February 17, 2009, 10:30:06 AM
I thought the video only represented one fairly well isolated tribe.
Indeed, that was the point I was making. Things are getting worse all the time for LGBT people in Indonesia :)
not much is said about what defines the 5th gender
Quote from: Kinkly on February 26, 2009, 10:53:09 PM
not much is said about what defines the 5th gender
Maybe the fifth one is the elusive
genderless gender... which just might be a wee bit too much for most people to wrap their minds around. ??? ::)
Quote from: Kinkly on February 26, 2009, 10:53:09 PM
not much is said about what defines the 5th gender
It can be whatever we want it to be ;D
Z
Quote from: Zythyra on February 27, 2009, 08:49:36 AM
It can be whatever we want it to be ;D
Z
I agree but
they sayed male, female, non transitioning MtF&FtM,and the priest who is both. are all people who fit this gender boud to be a priest is it possible for other genders to become a priest?
insted of the two gender system we live in they have 5 boxes I wonder if i'd fit in any of them I dout it
Off the subject a little but here are a few Indonesian links in English:
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2008/09/26/a-place-->-bleeped-<-s-connect-with-god.html (http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2008/09/26/a-place--%3E-bleeped-%3C-s-connect-with-god.html)
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gH_DfDQmV1L6LtGF_IMqnBj1RsAQ (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gH_DfDQmV1L6LtGF_IMqnBj1RsAQ)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/08/asia_pac_indonesia0s_waria/html/1.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/08/asia_pac_indonesia0s_waria/html/1.stm)
http://www.wayang.net/waria/slides/IMG_8879.html (http://www.wayang.net/waria/slides/IMG_8879.html)
Sulawesi's fifth gender
What if there were not just two genders, but five? In Indonesia, there are
Sharyn Graham
I first went to Sulawesi in August 1998 on a reconnaissance trip to determine if this would be an interesting place to study gender relations. I had read a little about gender in Sulawesi, encouraged by my supervisors Dr Greg Acciaioli and Dr Lyn Parker, but I was not quite prepared for the richness of Bugis gender identities. In Australia we tend to assume that there are only two genders, woman and man, and two matching biological sexes, female and male. The Bugis acknowledge three sexes (female, male, hermaphrodite), four genders (women, men, calabai, and calalai), and a fifth meta-gender group, the bissu.
'Bissu' tends to be translated as '->-bleeped-<- priest', but this term is less than satisfactory. ->-bleeped-<- implies cross-dressing, but bissu have their own distinctive clothing. Moreover, bissudo not go from one gender to another; they are a combination of all genders. To become a bissu, one must be born both female and male, or hermaphroditic. (To be precise, the Bugis believe that a bissu who appears externally male is internally female, and vice versa). This combination of sexes enables a 'meta-gender' identity to emerge.
rest of article here
http://www.insideindonesia.org/content/view/484/29/ (http://www.insideindonesia.org/content/view/484/29/)
Thank you for posting this.
It was very interesting to see.