I have a friend who dated a guy for over 6 years and she never knew he was a FtoM. He had surgery and even bottom surgery, that wasn't that good. He made up a story about why he looked so different and she believed it. He never told her that he was Fto M and they were intimate and looking to be married. Well, things went south and they broke up. She still likes him. She found out by a relative who didn't like him and told her. She was devastated. She has trust issues now is really upset.
My question is, Would you go so far as keeping a relationship going and not telling about this?
I would not and at some point in the beginning I would have said something. You can't base a relationship on a lie.
of course in another sense, it's not a lie.
If he said 'I was born male' it would be but if he said 'I am male' it wouldn't be. Very possible that he didn't consider himself lying at all, be it about his gender or his love... But yeah, he mist have had trouble getting to sleep some nights.
I would have told. I would feel like I was being dishonest, especially if marrige was in the cards. What would happen when she isn't getting pregnant (if they wanted kids) and they go to the doctor and he says well your husband has no sperm at all thats why. In the end it would catch up to you so why not be honest if you think the relationship is going somewhere.
Myles
well, i've never really thought about it because i'll be keeping my ladybits (thanks Starbuck ;)*).
but if i did have bottom surgery, i think i'd tell. moreso because it's just not 'me' to keep anything at all secret, than any moral obligations.
Quote from: Sheila on February 10, 2009, 09:48:34 PM
I have a friend who dated a guy for over 6 years and she never knew he was a FtoM. He had surgery and even bottom surgery, that wasn't that good. He made up a story about why he looked so different and she believed it. He never told her that he was Fto M and they were intimate and looking to be married. Well, things went south and they broke up. She still likes him. She found out by a relative who didn't like him and told her. She was devastated. She has trust issues now is really upset.
My question is, Would you go so far as keeping a relationship going and not telling about this?
I would not and at some point in the beginning I would have said something. You can't base a relationship on a lie.
There's so many things that would be telltale I can't imagine this being plausible.
Quote from: myles on February 10, 2009, 09:55:11 PM
...In the end it would catch up to you so why not be honest if you think the relationship is going somewhere.
Myles
That was my thought when I told my loved one. I didn't say anything right at the beginning but once I
realized that I would like to spend my life with this girl I told her about me and my plans to transition.
And athough she handles it very well, I know she has mixed feelings and gives subtle hints about it
at times. She is aware that I will not be keeping my bits and she admits that she has no idea what
that will be like for her in the future, but she says she loves me now, and it isn't just for my bits.... :laugh:
she has said before that I was never like the guys she has been aquainted with in her past, and
that she liked that quality in me...
...guess thats because I never really was... (
a guy that is)
I Like to think/hope that she won't mind the same sex relationship and even marriage even though
it wasn't her plan in the beginning. It has been two years since I told her and right now she is at my
side (but she gives me my space, and her trust, so she is not reading this. Well, I don't think she is)
Honesty works...surprisingly!
*Hugs* Nicole
The whole scenario is true. I know there are so called telltale signs but if you are not looking for those signs you don't see them. Love masks a lot. He had a story and it could of been true. I did not know him. I only know my friend. The relationship was over before I met her. She knows he is a man and believes it. That is not the problem. It is the trust that you build between two people who are friends, lovers and in a full partnership just short of marriage.
Unfortunately this is fairly common in South Africa. I know three stealth women who are in relationships like this, one over a decade old, and that's just amongst the handful of trans people I know over here. I don't agree with it, but I can understand the seduction of doing it.
Sad that people feel they have to resort to this sort of thing to feel they have a chance at love. :(
Mina.
I'm not planning on surgery so it would be some sort of whopper I'd have to come up with to explain my micropenis and bonus hole. I just started dating someone; it's not serious and hasn't gotten past the hug stage, so I have not revealed anything. If it looks promising I will disclose, only to be honest with someone I care about. I would hope she wouldn't see me as anything other than male.
I can understand the desire not to disclose, as I'm finally pretty much where I want to be except for a bit more body hair, and just feel like a normal guy. I tend to forget...except when it comes to intimacy.
Clothed I'm anatomically correct; naked I am not. If I were MTF and post-op it would be a very difficult choice, esp. if I lived in an area where nobody knew me.
Jay
at what point do you notice things like...
Your partner has no photos of themselves as a child, a teen, a young adult.
Your partner never ejaculates. Ever.
Your partner has syringes and prescriptions hanging around.
Maybe you wouldn't deduce that your partner has transitioned, but you'd surely be wondering WTF was going on.
I didn't tell my first husband (1976), I honestly felt it was irrelevant. He didn't find out until after we split and the story made the newspapers. He was very angry and asked how I could keep something like that from him. I asked him "Would it have made a difference?" He had no way to answer that without labelling himself prejudiced.
I told my second husband when the relationship became intimate. He understood, he was okay with it, and actually became my greatest protector.
After my second marriage broke up, when I started dating again, I decided to tell earlier and every single one of the guys did a runner.
The guy I am seeing now I met on a support site so we knew "all the dirt" on each other before the relationship began so it's cool.
Unfortunately 99.9% of the human race has all the depth of a sheet of paper! :o This should not be an issue, but it is. If someone falls in love with "who you are" that SHOULD be all that matters .... unfortunately that is not the case.
Were I still on the dating scene, I would keep my trap shut until well into the relationship and take my chances. The better someone knows you the less likely the distant past will matter.
why the need to share your history with anyone,
People can guess mine for all i care but i would never say a word
i would no expect someone to tell me all theirs, the feeling of being lied to me always sounds like a good cover for feeling offended they were trans.
Been there already
Quote from: Ms Delgado on February 12, 2009, 05:55:46 AM
why the need to share your history with anyone,
People can guess mine for all i care but i would never say a word
i would no expect someone to tell me all theirs, the feeling of being lied to me always sounds like a good cover for feeling offended they were trans.
Been there already
Not telling can get a person assaulted or killed, something that is more likely for an MtF person than an Ftm person.
I can understand the motivation in keeping your past hidden and for casual relationships I think its fine to do so but when a relationship gets to a physically intimate stage I think it prudent to inform your partner. I personally would want to know quite a bit about a person's past before hopping into the sack with them myself and feel it's only fair to give the same amount of info that I'm asking for.
Being disgusted with lying to people was one of my main motivators for transition. I couldn't maintain a lie like the FtM person in Sheila's post did. His actions bring a lot more question into his character than just how it affected Sheila's friend. I think she's lucky she found out before it was too late.
That said, it's what I feel about it and have no problem with people making their own choices.
hugs & smiles
Emelye
Quote from: Emelye on February 12, 2009, 06:47:52 AMBeing disgusted with lying to people was one of my main motivators for transition. I couldn't maintain a lie like the FtM person in Sheila's post did. His actions bring a lot more question into his character than just how it affected Sheila's friend. I think she's lucky she found out before it was too late.
That said, it's what I feel about it and have no problem with people making their own choices.
You don't disclose.... you're accused of being a liar.
You disclose and you're a liar. i.e. I will
never say "I was a man", I'd explain about transsexuality, but sure as shootin' that's what they'll hear ("I was a man").
It's a conundrum. We lose any way you slice it.
I favor keeping my private medical history private until things are serious, which hasn't happened yet. When it happens it will be done carefully and I will not suffer fools lightly. They accept me and "get it" or I'm out of there. I will not stay in a place where I'm constantly wondering what they're *really* thinking about me. You see honesty and trust is a two way street.
Being stealth and telling a potential mate are two different things. Yeah there might be signs, but they may go unread.
This is one reason I feel that being with a FtM is a blessing. You share something very personal. However I am not with anyone and i don't hide who I am. Let them run. It is their lose.
Janet
Quote from: Northern Jane on February 12, 2009, 04:32:58 AM
I didn't tell my first husband (1976), I honestly felt it was irrelevant. He didn't find out until after we split and the story made the newspapers. He was very angry and asked how I could keep something like that from him. I asked him "Would it have made a difference?" He had no way to answer that without labelling himself prejudiced.
I told my second husband when the relationship became intimate. He understood, he was okay with it, and actually became my greatest protector.
After my second marriage broke up, when I started dating again, I decided to tell earlier and every single one of the guys did a runner.
The guy I am seeing now I met on a support site so we knew "all the dirt" on each other before the relationship began so it's cool.
Unfortunately 99.9% of the human race has all the depth of a sheet of paper! :o This should not be an issue, but it is. If someone falls in love with "who you are" that SHOULD be all that matters .... unfortunately that is not the case.
Were I still on the dating scene, I would keep my trap shut until well into the relationship and take my chances. The better someone knows you the less likely the distant past will matter.
MTF bottom surgery is WAY better than any of the FTM options. If i were MTF and post op, I wouldn't tell anyone. But being FTM and post op is entirely different.
I was thinking....
I didn't tell my first husband
After my second marriage broke up
is not exactly an awesome track record for someone to be giving relationship advice, regardless of gender.
Quote from: tekla on February 12, 2009, 12:18:32 PM
I was thinking....
I didn't tell my first husband
After my second marriage broke up
is not exactly an awesome track record for someone to be giving relationship advice, regardless of gender.
I disagree Tekla. Relationships are not straight forward things. The reasons for divorce are often not from lack of trying. Experience offers a lot of insight. Would you want dating advise from people that have been married all their adult life?
Your post comes across as a bit of a personal dig. Would appreciate it if we could veer away from that track.
Cheers
Nick
Once, sure, twice? At what point does it become a pattern rather than a few bad choices.
I don't know. Depends on the circumstances. Without knowing the situation I don't know if we can comment.
Does it strike anyone at all that this entire thing is a personal matter? Prolly best decided on by the person making the decision.
I can get pretty much all of the reasons for doing one or the other, but it seems to me that the "liar" meme depends on the attitude and reasoning of the person him or herself.
How many of us, people with transsexing histories, KNEW we were not exactly what others were telling us we were? What was the "lie" or was there one at all?
Everyone has an opinion, opinions being what they are.
There's a risk in practically every decision a person makes. Go with what you're comfortable with and don't be so concerned what the next person "might" do in the situation. Afterall, shouldn't we be living our lives in ways we are comfortable in ourselves rather than how the person down the street is comfortable in how we live?
What someone else thinks of my "truthfulness" isn't the issue. What I am comfortable with as to my "truthfulness" is.
Nichole
Quote from: tekla on February 12, 2009, 12:18:32 PM...is not exactly an awesome track record for someone to be giving relationship advice, regardless of gender.
Fine, than disregard it. It matters not to me.
I admit the first one was a poor choice (talked a good line but too lazy to follow through on anything) but I was young and foolish.
The second one was pretty good for 12 years but ended with his "misappropriation of funds".
I have done a lot of living in the last 35 years. Two broken marriages isn't a stellar record but at least it's living.
I know neither how nor why someone would do something like that. I think what the ftm guy did is utterly reprehensible; what did he say when she asked about his childhood, his family? Did he just continually lie? Did he make up an entire life?
I value honesty above all else, personally. My wife and I met, actually, on susan's chat, so there was no mystery as to the fact we were both transgendered. However, I cannot even fathom lying to someone I supposedly loved, to that extent. Even with people I've known only a few weeks and am befriending, I feel a necessity to tell them I am trans, if only so that I don't have to worry about telling them stories from my childhood that are incongruent with my current state/gender. It makes me nervous when people don't know, like I'm going to let something slip and it'll be the end of everything. I'd far rather just get things out in the open from the beginning. If someone has a problem with me being trans, F them. They're not worth my time.
SD
Quote from: Sebastien on February 12, 2009, 04:40:38 PMI'd far rather just get things out in the open from the beginning. If someone has a problem with me being trans, F them. They're not worth my time.
How do you bring it up? Do you wait until you're about to say something about your childhood and reveal? Hope your friends fill them in while you're taking a leak? I have a hard time meeting new people and then adding, oh, btw, I'm trans. Because my trans status doesn't seem like it should matter much and I don't think of myself as trans.
Just curious how others go about it.
Jay
Quote from: sneakersjay on February 11, 2009, 12:53:09 PM
I'm not planning on surgery so it would be some sort of whopper I'd have to come up with to explain my micropenis and bonus hole. I just started dating someone; it's not serious and hasn't gotten past the hug stage, so I have not revealed anything. If it looks promising I will disclose, only to be honest with someone I care about. I would hope she wouldn't see me as anything other than male.
I can understand the desire not to disclose, as I'm finally pretty much where I want to be except for a bit more body hair, and just feel like a normal guy. I tend to forget...except when it comes to intimacy.
Clothed I'm anatomically correct; naked I am not. If I were MTF and post-op it would be a very difficult choice, esp. if I lived in an area where nobody knew me.
Jay
Good luck with that dude. Chances are, she may already know and be fine with it, but wants you to tell her before she's ready to enter into that next step. That's what happened with me and my girl. I remember when I told her she just threw her arms around me and said "finally!" And I'm sure you can guess what happened afterwards. ;) lol. But, it always feels great when you can disclose your status to the person you care about and they still accept you for who you are.
This is a clear as mud gray area where either side can be argued convincingly, so I would say mostly it comes down to what each person feels is right.
There are some facts though that you just can't really get around. The biggest one being- in our current cultural climate many people (if not most) would find it perfectly reasonable for somebody to react in horror to the news a partner, past or present, is trans. As long as this is true, I think it's a little selfish and unfair to withhold this information from a partner, even though I understand as well as anybody a FTM was actually born male b/c they were born w/ a male brain. I get it, it's just the world doesn't. I think if you want the moral leeway to withhold this information, then you need to get out there an help change this perception. Be visible, be normal, be kind to others :angel:. These things will help.
We could really use the equiv of Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, how much good did that show do for the gay community? ^-^
I understand the appeal of stealth, but it doesn't help the cause when the most normal and least "threatening" of our community disappear into the woodwork and the freaks who went on Springer are pretty much all we have left for a public face. I see this slowly starting to change is the good news, but at this pace it will be generations before we are even accepted to the extent gays are today.
Quote from: tekla on February 12, 2009, 02:34:12 PM
Once, sure, twice? At what point does it become a pattern rather than a few bad choices.
How about some context here? Northern Jane transitioned in 1974.
1974! She then was married twice in the next 35 years. Two bad marriages in 35 years? I think there are at least a couple million people that fall into that classification. It's not rare or unusual at all. You're being needlessly negative.