I was in the checkout line at Target today. I heard a man's voice say softly behind me: "Hello." It seemed to be aimed in my direction, but there was no one around who knew me, so I assumed it wasn't addressed to me.
Then he said softly, right behind my ear, "I like that style. Very nice." And quickly walked away. A moment later I saw him going to the men's room... not sure how creepy that makes it.
I was wearing a tight blue wrap dress with a plunging V neck, which coincidentally I'd bought at the same Target a couple years ago, a blue scarf, strappy sandals, and bare legs because the weather was warm today. I was aware that I looked a bit sexy, but I was on my way to see my girlfriend. I dress sexy for her, not for random strange men. At first I still doubted he was talking to me, because the woman in line in front of me was wearing much more attractive styles, I thought. But she had a little kid with her, and her skirt was ankle-length, which is not generally what attracts men, is it? And he was talking quietly a few inches from my ear, which the other woman wasn't likely to hear.
I did not like the man's attention or his behavior, but this sort of incident always brings up mixed feelings-- because of my insecurity I still secretly crave validation that I'm an attractive woman. I'm wary of that feeling because it can prove dangerous for me. I'm always conscious that any time a man imposes his attention on a woman, he's a potential attacker, no matter how nice or timid he seems-- that kind of behavior from a random male stranger is out of bounds. I'm always on my guard against men. Anyway, I ignored the masher. I always ignore it when a random guy hits on me like that.
him running to the restroom makes me wonder if you weren't passing and he was expecting to get some in the john, honestly.
but yes, creepy.
I don't know about that. But it was directed at you. And very creepy.
I pass a lot better than you imagine, Mister. Besides, I don't know what it's like where you live, but here in suburban Virginia, dames in dresses, cleavage, and high heels do not enter men's rooms. Ever.
Very Creepy
I t was probably "just a pervert". You were probably a bit isolated so he could put the frighteners on you and then run away and play with it.
Just put it out of your mind. There are some very sick people out there.
Cindy James
Quote from: Hypatia on March 10, 2009, 01:26:47 AMI did not like the man's attention or his behavior, but this sort of incident always brings up mixed feelings-- because of my insecurity I still secretly crave validation that I'm an attractive woman.
Honey, you
are an attractive woman. You're gorgeous. We've talked about this before, but attention from men like this guy has nothing to do with a woman's attractiveness. They're just perverts who prey on someone they perceive as vulnerable, as was mentioned above. For example, it doesn't make me feel attractive to have all those dirty old men at work hitting on me. I know they're doing it because a) they're just like that, and b) they think of me as easy prey because I'm so quiet.
I know it's nice to have validation from someone besides me since I just adore you so much. A sincere compliment you got was from that hostess at Carrabba's who said you were so pretty. She said it simply because she meant it, not because she was after anything. That is more truly validating.
:-*
It isn't like I go looking anywhere else for it other than you... but when it happens unbidden... I still have to process it... process it through or despite all the inferiority complexes I may have built up in my life. You fulfill me totally, darling, but this old stuff doesn't go away all at once... I've been through a tremendous transformation and I'm still adjusting to it all... bear with me...
I know you have written before about how much it bothers you when men hit on you. Well being an attractive woman, I think that is life. That is, however, not to say it is appropriate. I was not there of course. But I am wondering: Could it be that he just did not want the other women around you to hear what he said? Maybe you were just the fairest of them all. Some men do have a good eye for fashion, and could it be that it was nothing but a sincere compliment? Could it be that he just needed to use the rest room? Understand, these are just questions. I was not there. I did not hear the inflection in his voice. I did not see how close to you he was. I did not see how he walked to the rest room, or whether or not he looked at you on his way there, etc.
When I am hit on (yes, amazingly it happens) I just give a quick little smile, say thanks, and walk the other direction. Yes, the validation feels good, but no sense hanging around to find out if it means trouble.
Take care, hon.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
Quote from: Hypatia on March 10, 2009, 08:49:25 AM
It isn't like I go looking anywhere else for it other than you... but when it happens unbidden... I still have to process it... process it through or despite all the inferiority complexes I may have built up in my life. You fulfill me totally, darling, but this old stuff doesn't go away all at once... I've been through a tremendous transformation and I'm still adjusting to it all... bear with me...
Process this, you!
You are a pretty woman. You don't have to apologize for that. Matters not what you choose to wear or what you don't choose to wear. Don't apologize for having good fortune in your looks and fashion-sense. LOL!
But, Kris is also right in our culture you're gonna get come-ons and compliments and people, men, especially, but women as well, who are gonna focus on "how good you look." It's just there. You don't have to read any further than that.
So he went to the bathroom.
The silly answer above as to why that walk to the bathroom afterwards doesn't violate board policy, it simply violates common sense, so ignore it as well. Perhaps one does that at a womyn's bar in SF, but not at a Macy's in Virginia. Ya know? LOL!!
So, people give ya compliments and some give them loud and open and others decide to be discreet, although perhaps not as discreet as would have felt better to you. Just a case of another guy thinking that his words were so very important that you had to hear them before he went to the toilet!
Now, my friend, what's unusual about that? :laugh:
Nichole
It could be, in that world of probability and such, that he was:
a) trying to give you a natural complement, and wasn't very good at it
b) trying to be sarcastic, and wasn't good at that either
c) a serial killer assessing you as his next victim
d) just another (lonely) person trying to make some contact
I'm betting on D.
And you may have been dressing sexy for your GF, but you live in the real world, and other people see you too. If you look nice, then they can notice you look nice, and hopefully are making a statement of beauty, grace and all that in a dreary world and making up for them having to see people like me often dressed in clothes that homeless people wouldn't wear and covered in dirt, grease and paint. It's OK to notice pretty people. And lots of people do.
I'm always conscious that any time a man imposes his attention on a woman, he's a potential attacker, no matter how nice or timid he seems-- that kind of behavior from a random male stranger is out of bounds.
Granted that every man could be a potential attacker, the fact of the matter is that the odds are he is not. Like I said, he might have just been on the most clumsy side of his social skills. Overwhelming odds are, it was just some guy at Target.
And I'm not sure where exactly that line is between being friendly and "unwanted attention" - I talk to people all the time, in line, waiting for lights to turn at crosswalks, on the bus, waiting for the bus and just walking down the street. I complement a lot of people, guy I just quote ZZ Top and say 'everybody's crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man' and with women I might be more detailed, or point out exactly what it is in that style that I like. Usually, that does begin a conversation, at least one on clothes and shopping.
Lots of people dress to look good, its OK to notice it I think. And I know that the results are not all one sided. For every women that does not like it, there are some who do - which makes it hard for men to even begin to know.
But she had a little kid with her, and her skirt was ankle-length, which is not generally what attracts men, is it? What, the long skirt, or the rugrat in tow? In general I don't think the skirt matters, but I would think most guys try to shy away from trying to pick up women with kids.
O, I just ran across this here as well. See, it's apparently tied to T!! LOL!! https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,57052.msg357190.html#msg357190 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,57052.msg357190.html#msg357190)
Where the hell did my post go?
Quote from: Mister on March 10, 2009, 10:40:04 AM
Where the hell did my post go?
You mean there was another there besides your sterling explanation?
I hadn't seen anything except that one this morning, Mister.
N~
Quote from: Hypatia on March 10, 2009, 01:40:53 AM
I pass a lot better than you imagine, Mister. Besides, I don't know what it's like where you live, but here in suburban Virginia, dames in dresses, cleavage, and high heels do not enter men's rooms. Ever.
you pass better than I imagine? Do you think i assume all MTFs look like men in dresses with bad wigs? Without you being inside my brain, I find that statement downright rude. I hope you pass better than any MTF to come before. I truly do.
Here in lovely San Francisco, there are men screwing everywhere, including restrooms. Also, everyone can clock a ->-bleeped-<-! I have walked down the street with the most passable MTF I've ever seen (as in, she and i knew each other for 3 or 4 months without clocking the other) and had homeless dudes be like, "She's a man! That's a trap!"
I imagine that suburban Northern Virginia has a different set of socio-cultural mores, Mister, than prevails in some areas of SF. I suspect that in fact some areas of SF have a different prevalence of socio-cultural mores than do other areas of the same city.
Surely you recognize that? Right?
Nichole
Quote from: Nichole on March 10, 2009, 10:59:33 AM
I imagine that suburban Northern Virginia has a different set of socio-cultural mores, Mister, than prevails in some areas of SF. I suspect that in fact some areas of SF have a different prevalence of socio-cultural mores than do other areas of the same city.
Surely you recognize that? Right?
Nichole
Yup. But that doesn't mean that people don't get clocked everywhere or screw in restrooms everywhere. I have not led my entire existence in these 49 square miles, Nicole.
I can go to places where people are always screwing in bathrooms here in SF. And I can go to places where the bathrooms are virgin, never been screwed in, and most likely never will be. I prefer those places, though the other is not without its charm on special nights. Guess you got nothing but special nights going on there.
As for playing spot the ->-bleeped-<- in old san francisco, is that like a special gift or skill? You you employ some mysterious technique that works without fail? I wonder because - though some are easy to spot - how would you even know about the ones that got away? Could you call those girls from AsiaSF each and every time? Bet not.
In truth, you only see obvious ->-bleeped-<-s and not every ->-bleeped-<-. And, in places where people are sexing it up in the loo, well, I'm sure they are even more easy to spot.
Tekla, i'm sorry if you misread my post to mean that I have The Gift and can detect every ->-bleeped-<-. I can't. hell, I found out about SuperPassableMTF by a random homeless dude calling her out on Polk & Turk. And more honestly, I'm not looking.
My point is that you can get clocked ANYWHERE. For all she knows, dude was looking for a bathroom BJ at target.
Quote from: tekla on March 10, 2009, 11:12:12 AM
I can go to places where people are always screwing in bathrooms here in SF. And I can go to places where the bathrooms are virgin, never been screwed in, and most likely never will be. I prefer those places, though the other is not without its charm on special nights. Guess you got nothing but special nights going on there.
As for playing spot the ->-bleeped-<- in old san francisco, is that like a special gift or skill? You you employ some mysterious technique that works without fail? I wonder because - though some are easy to spot - how would you even know about the ones that got away? Could you call those girls from AsiaSF each and every time? Bet not.
In truth, you only see obvious ->-bleeped-<-s and not every ->-bleeped-<-. And, in places where people are sexing it up in the loo, well, I'm sure they are even more easy to spot.
Exactly, what was it, eight months ago, the story about the 2 TSes (FTM & MTF) walking down Market or some such who were being blasted for being "breeders" by the o-so-capable on the block?
Quote from: Mister on March 10, 2009, 11:19:25 AM
Tekla, i'm sorry if you misread my post to mean that I have The Gift and can detect every ->-bleeped-<-. I can't. hell, I found out about SuperPassableMTF by a random homeless dude calling her out on Polk & Turk. And more honestly, I'm not looking.
My point is that you can get clocked ANYWHERE. For all she knows, dude was looking for a bathroom BJ at target.
Yeah, do ya just chalk one up when you're read as being because they get everyone, or could it be that maybe you don't do as well as you think and other guys go unnoticed as anything but guys, hon?
As for not being a lifelong? Yeah, I kinda got that about you anyhow, Mister. You read as if you immigrated there. :)
Nichole
And it's obvious you didn't come from Virginia either. Your obsession with bathroom affairs is truly passionate but tends to be obsessive, doncha think? What happened to all that sensitivity you mentioned you had the other day? LOL!!
dude was looking for a bathroom BJ at target.
Old tekla is thinking she ought to get out more.
But Polk and Turk, where Polk goes up from the 'Loin? In like one of the worst areas in the United States? I mean this was prime drag territory since the fifties when Compton's Cafeteria was on Turk and Taylor, past where the Black Rose sat for years right off Turk, or up Polk to Diva's today. And yes, this is the neighborhood where people have sex in bathrooms - its considered a classy move up from just doing it in the alley (which I've seen) or on the hood of a parked car (which I've also seen in the 'Loin.)
But that's not exactly where they build Target stores either. Not the Target Market to coin a phrase.
I have to laugh at what Cindy had to say. "Just another pervert" Not to worry, merely another pervert.
Quote from: Hypatia on March 10, 2009, 08:49:25 AM
process it through or despite all the inferiority complexes I may have built up in my life.
I can be susceptible to the same thing because of my own complexes about my looks. I'm not saying our complexes are equal, but I can relate. I remember a couple times in college having random groups of guys "bark" at me. It's always made me insecure no matter how many more people have said the opposite of me. It also comes down to a point where I don't believe it if someone says I am attractive because I think they're just being nice. The only person who says it that I believe is you. And that's the only opinion that matters to me.
I respectfully disagree with those who think his behavior was anything but completely inappropriate and creepy. He said "that style" looked good on her. Not "that dress," which makes it more about her body than the actual clothing. And he wasn't just standing in line waiting to make a purchase and just happened to notice. He made it a point to do nothing other than come up to her to say it. If he was buying something and happened to say, "Oh, that's a pretty dress," I would say it could have been innocent. A normal male stranger wouldn't have dared approach a woman in such a manner, at least not around here. People don't even talk to strangers in line like I've seen in other areas of the country, except occasionally for women speaking to other women. It's just not done here.
People don't even talk to strangers in line like I've seen in other areas of the country
That's kinda creepy. I've been all over and it seems that people will talk to you just about everywhere. I guess I hang with a bad crowd. Those Macy's and cocktail lounge people.
Quote from: tekla on March 10, 2009, 12:31:49 PM
That's kinda creepy. I've been all over and it seems that people will talk to you just about everywhere. I guess I hang with a bad crowd. Those Macy's and cocktail lounge people.
Oh, no. There's nothing wrong with your crowd at all. It's just the snooty, self-absorbed people around here. :laugh:
I'm not certain that where I live the difference between "that dress' and "that style" would so effectively differentiate between "pervert" and "normal."
And yeah, I find myself being talked to by strangers constantly in lines and such. Personally I think most of us are so very isolated and alone anyhow that we find society where we can: in the checkout at Wal-mart and Target.
There may be some illness in that, but i don't think it's perverted. I think we strive for connection with other human beings.
Some do it in one way, others in another, but I think for the most part the attempts are well-meaning, sincere and kinda hopeful in some respects. After all, we have so often decided that any approach from another is going to be perverse, harmful, threatening? That seems sicker than what that man may have probably had in mind.
Nichole
I only talk to other people so they think I'm not talking to myself, which I do. But people used to think I was crazy, so I got this cell phone earpiece, and now they just think I'm crazy popular being on the phone talking with people all the time and all.
Quote
As for not being a lifelong? Yeah, I kinda got that about you anyhow, Mister. You read as if you immigrated there.
Hardly anyone is. I emigrated from a city that is just about as similar to SF as it gets.
Nicole, I'm sorry but I'm not quite sure I follow you. Above you were saying that you realize Northern Virginia is a completely different area, but then it seems like you're saying that it's like other places. I think I misunderstood something somewhere. I didn't mean anything against nice people living in other places who are just trying to relate to others.
This truly is the most unfriendly area I've ever been in. I've met people who come from other areas who often remark about it. To be fair, I think it's more about people simply being too busy and wrapped up in their own thoughts than anything else, but it really is rare to have strangers speak to you around here. Especially that this was a "hit and run" and he said the style "looked good on [her]."
Quote from: tekla on March 10, 2009, 11:29:31 AM
dude was looking for a bathroom BJ at target.
Old tekla is thinking she ought to get out more.
But Polk and Turk, where Polk goes up from the 'Loin? In like one of the worst areas in the United States? I mean this was prime drag territory since the fifties when Compton's Cafeteria was on Turk and Taylor, past where the Black Rose sat for years right off Turk, or up Polk to Diva's today. And yes, this is the neighborhood where people have sex in bathrooms - its considered a classy move up from just doing it in the alley (which I've seen) or on the hood of a parked car (which I've also seen in the 'Loin.)
But that's not exactly where they build Target stores either. Not the Target Market to coin a phrase.
Yes, that polk & turk. It's not where I hang out, it's on the way to my office. As for bathroom sex, it's not a TL-only activity. I've seen it across the continent, so I'm not sure why you're trying to pin it on this locale.