Rape used as lesbian 'cure' (http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2485403,00.html)
Though the report doesn't mention it, FtM trans people are targeted as well and just get lumped under lesbian since there's not as much awareness of transsexuality amongst many poorer communities. Violence against MtF people typically take the form of violent assault or murder instead.
Mina.
:(
Stupid, stupid idiots.
As I expected it is an excuse for sex offenders to go free of prosecution. The justice system does nothing about it. Crimes like that probably happen in small town America as well. Actually it's no too smart. Haven't they heard of Lorraina Bobbit?
the sad thing is the rapists probably actually believe that, (just like some places they think raping a virgin will cure them from aids.)
god the arrogance. thinking that they're lesbian just because they haven't experienced a man. ::)
Curing them so they will cook as a woman should? Dumb! Is the rapist going to eat the food? "A special dish for you honey" (cyanide)
Post Merge: March 14, 2009, 04:46:17 AM
Nero, many are lesbian because they have experienced a man.
Rape is a crime of violence.
It has little to do with sex. Rapists wish to dominate and find someone they can for some period of time. It's not about sexual urge, it's an evil act that victimises the innocent. There is no excuse, no matter the crap put forward as defence.
I'm sorry for this but I have been raped. I hope rapists go to prison for ever and are continually raped them selves.
This may not sound all that logical but the memories are raw.
Cindy James
A PROUD CINDY JAMES :police:
I think all sex offenders should be placed in the same prison yard together and let them have at it. It may minimize the prison population.
South African men seem to have developed a really scary culture of violent dominance over the last 20 years or so, and gang violence is pretty-much endemic here. Not to say that everybody is in a gang, but that same kind of dog-eat-dog mentality is widespread, where you constantly have to prove yourself through violence. It's male dominance taken to an extreme, and obviously the thought of a woman not "wanting" a guy "as a man" is a huge threat to his ego, which is what that entire dominance is based on. Likewise, "men dressed like women" undermine that idea of dominance, and they have to be destroyed.
It's not unique though. It's expressed over here with particular brutally, but the ideas behind it seem universal - when I first came out to a gay friend of mine in London, he just couldn't fathom why I would want to give up being "a man" (said with such reverence it made me feel distinctly uncomfortable) to be a woman, which, in his words, "Are in every way weaker and less able. Not their fault, just nature." We've since drifted apart, as you'd imagine.
I doubt that I'm going out on a limb when I say that that attitude is probably very nearly universal among men, even if they never say or show it - even if it just manifests in the need to "protect and provide", and it's the same root cause of violence against women, trans people, gay people and probably a host of other bad things.
Mina.
Cindy
I feel your pain. This has happned to me and in a different way or maybe not. Freaking older men taking advantage of someone who is vunerable.
I read this post and wanted it to go away b4 I got upset cause it brings back a lot of memories.
I hope and know there are good men & good women.
Evil has a big paint brush
CJ
@ Cindy & Krissy:
Hugs to you both, and to every other person on here who's had to endure such a horrible thing.
Mina.
When they are going to rape me in male prison. Nobody will be speaking about rape as ''crime''. I will just ''deserve'' it.
It's happened to me also. Sodomized would be the appropriate term. I was young and young men don't let that happen. I never told anyone for many years. The pschological trauma is difficult to deal with.
Quote from: SomeMTF on March 14, 2009, 06:55:21 AMWhen they are going to rape me in male prison. Nobody will be speaking about rape as ''crime''. I will just ''deserve'' it.
Hon, you have every reason to be afraid. I would be terrified witless if I was facing that sort of prospect, but hopefully your surgery comes through and all of this becomes a scary bad dream of your past. All you can do is hope and remain positive. I know that's not an awful lot, but to live in fear against what may happen only robs you of what good days you do have.
Mina.
Hi and so sorry for opening a nerve.
Rape to me is a crime that is below humanity.
My c
THIS KYBOSRDSUVS
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SORRY THATS WHAT I
This program is ->-bleeped-<-
I can't imagine the logic that says men raping lesbians will cure that and raping gays will cure that too.
One thing the article doesn't mention is that South Africa has the highest rape rate in the world. This has long been attributed to the widespread belief in that country that men are superior to women... and people are quite right, rape is not about sex, it's about power. Men exert their influence over women by showing them that they can take control of even the most intimate details of their lives.
I assume these reprehensible rapists saw the lesbian population as threatening their manhood; by saying that they don't need a man in order to experience sexual pleasure, they were exempting the male species from pretty much any role of importance. It's sick, but the sad fact is, the more power you give arbitrarily to a particular group, the more they will be tempted to abuse it, and assert it when they feel threatened.
I always have loved that old theory that some who is homosexual merely needs to experience heterosexual sex in order to be "corrected". So... all the straight people in the world had sex with members of the same sex to be certain they were heterosexual?
SD
Been there... didn't cure my pansexuality, didn't make me change my mind about being male underneath it all.
Boys dont Cry
*shivers*
Quote from: Nero on March 14, 2009, 04:43:46 AM
the sad thing is the rapists probably actually believe that, (just like some places they think raping a virgin will cure them from aids.)
god the arrogance. thinking that they're lesbian just because they haven't experienced a man. ::)
I agree Nero, talking of arrogance my friend who used to live in South Africa for many years said that she once tuned into a "black" station and it was broad casted over and over again that "Aids is a lie that the white man have made up to stop us from breeding." And I bet many people do believe it.
people believe that in this century?
Pica, this century is even more egotistical and closed minded then past centuries. It's horrible.
And as far as rape 'curing' lesbianism (is that a word?). If anything, rape would make the woman hate/dislike men all the more.
Quote from: krptcmschfmkr128 on March 14, 2009, 10:58:18 PMAnd as far as rape 'curing' lesbianism (is that a word?). If anything, rape would make the woman hate/dislike men all the more.
It most certainly did in my case. :(
Quote from: krptcmschfmkr128 on March 14, 2009, 10:58:18 PM
Pica, this century is even more egotistical and closed minded then past centuries. It's horrible.
I'd agree with the close minded bit, but i did think it was slightly less crazy than other centuries.
Quote from: Pica Pica on March 16, 2009, 06:37:01 PM
I'd agree with the close minded bit, but i did think it was slightly less crazy than other centuries.
Sadly, a majority of the male population thinks they're "god's gift" to women and can't fathom a woman not wanting them, especially for another woman. And there's plenty of areas that are still quite barbaric and crazy. I've heard in Africa it's commonplace for women to be raped "just because". So, while we live in more "civilized" (if you want to call them that) areas of the world, there are still others that are horrendous and treat women/homosexuals like crap.
Quote from: Hypatia on March 16, 2009, 06:18:32 PM
It most certainly did in my case. :(
A therapist told me that a lot of incest victims become lesbians for that very reason.
>:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-)
I know just the thing that will cure these "men" of their heterosexuality.
Quote from: Starr on March 16, 2009, 10:21:18 PM
A therapist told me that a lot of incest victims become lesbians for that very reason.
Makes perfect sense to me.
Words cannot even begin to describe how horrific and disgusting that is... rape to a heterosexual woman is common yet still disgusting, but hate crimes just make it worse.
I just do not understand why a lot of girls take self defense classes or something, seriously.
I agree with self defense classes and it has to be street wise classes. But. A bigger person will usually overcome a smaller person. Unless you are willing to go into survival self defence. You need to be fit, alert and willing to take out eyes, tongues and testicles. If there
are more than one and they are heavier than you you need a weapon or be seriously skilled. And totally brutal. Most males on the street in Australia that try it on with girl friends are drunk. Crush their balls full time. If on a place and they come full frontal, take their eyes out, either a single finger or if you practice both.
If a heavier person gets you on the ground you are basically finished. Unless getting to the eyes is an option. And do not hesitate.
No man, or women has the right to rape. You are justified in taking extreme measures..
If on the ground offer something, ->-bleeped-<- rather than vaginal or anal rape. It gives you control again and kill or maime the thing ASAP. Get over I'm hurting a human being. You are not, you need to survive.
LoL
Cindy James
Step 1. Jab your fingers into their eyes first. Hard. Their hands will fly up to their face instead of automatically protecting their balls.
Step 2. Hold them by a shoulder and hit the balls with your knee. Hard.
Step 3. As they crumple forward, aim a hard blow to the base of the skull. They should go down if you hit hard enough in the right place.
Step 4. Run like a m*****f*****.
This is the sequence I learned in women's self-defense class. Taught by a lesbian feminist. A literal ball-buster! :D
Quote from: mina.m->-bleeped-<-ie link=topic=57336.msg359605#msg359605 date=1237029932
South African men seem to have developed a really scary culture of violent dominance over the last 20 years or so, and gang violence is pretty-much endemic here. Not to say that everybody is in a gang, but that same kind of dog-eat-dog mentality is widespread, where you constantly have to prove yourself through violence. It's male dominance taken to an extreme, and obviously the thought of a woman not "wanting" a guy "as a man" is a huge threat to his ego, which is what that entire dominance is based on. Likewise, "men dressed like women" undermine that idea of dominance, and they have to be destroyed.
Really?Just in the past 20 years? So all the violence and ideas like that didn't come from the Dutch, Cecil Rhodes and Omm Paul, etc? To be passed along through Botha and the struggles over apartheid?
I find it rather a common sentiment in lots of places. There is no beat-down quite so terrible as to have your own body violated by someone else's genitalia. None. And yes, I know that from experience. Killing is much kinder.
I see the same sorts of beliefs here as well. Not as openly displayed, but certainly not a small minority opinion. "Hey, honey, I can cure you of your lesbianism. You just need a good screw from someone like me." Yeah, right.
Cultures that thrive on violence, even as they make some attempts to ease the violence, seem to find the answers for everything in violence. This isn't just about ZA. The Afghan Parliament just rammed through an anti-rape bill as well. It basically says it's impossible to rape any woman, anywhere in Afghanistan.
And USA rape laws have only been made tougher in the past 25-30 years. We revel in violence and how easy it is to force one's will onto another through such means.
Nichole
Quote from: Nichole on April 14, 2009, 10:42:32 AMReally?Just in the past 20 years? So all the violence and ideas like that didn't come from the Dutch, Cecil Rhodes and Omm Paul, etc? To be passed along through Botha and the struggles over apartheid?
Not what I said Nicole, or at least not how I intended it to be understood. Sorry for not making myself clear. Violence and brutality is endemic to every country colonised by a European power, as it is in many other places in the world. What I was trying to convey though is that, in much the same way as a civil war will leave a country with a generation of profoundly screwed-up individuals, the violence that went on here in the 70's and 80's and into the 90's has left us with a generation of people with pretty-much no socialisation and zero empathy. They know only brutality and violence and power. That's as true of white boys who got drafted to go fight on the border as it is of black boys who were fighting against police actions in the townships.
Mina.
Just making sure that's what you meant. :)
And actually, I didn't mean to be a nuisance. What I read actually made me wonder if you were laying the violence off to the account of the non-apartheid government's rise, about 20 years ago, and had sorta left out the horrendously violent ancien regime.
Quote from: Nichole on April 14, 2009, 01:26:44 PMAnd actually, I didn't mean to be a nuisance. What I read actually made me wonder if you were laying the violence off to the account of the non-apartheid government's rise, about 20 years ago, and had sorta left out the horrendously violent ancien regime.
No worries. I shoulda been clearer. I just meant that the sins of our fathers will be haunting us for a very long time.
:) Yeah, that tends to always be true and always has been true. I suspect the violence thing started while our ancestors were still Australopithecines if not earlier.
N~
Quote from: Nichole on April 14, 2009, 02:50:45 PM
:) Yeah, that tends to always be true and always has been true. I suspect the violence thing started while our ancestors were still Australopithecines if not earlier.
From what I've read we were doing pretty okay during the paleolithic - much more egalitarian, less violent, etc. It's when we settled down and started farming that it all went to hell, I suppose since that's where ownership started.
Mina.
Quote from: mina.m->-bleeped-<-ie link=topic=57336.msg371795#msg371795 date=1239739590
From what I've read we were doing pretty okay during the paleolithic - much more egalitarian, less violent, etc. It's when we settled down and started farming that it all went to hell, I suppose since that's where ownership started.
Mina.
You have to dmit if you nearest neighbor is 5 miles away in another town it's a bit easier to encoach violently than if she's 100 miles away living along a small riverband with her tribe. :)
In that regard you're prolly right. Framing made it possible to feed much larger assemblies of people. The more population the more war, and rape for that matter, became feasible. And the more necessity there would be to delineate property: land, goods, crops, etc.
Hmm, who shall we make the priest? And whom shall we elect king? :)
Nichole
The only time I will ever accept any form of rape is when it is a fantasy and the person wants it to seem like rape when it is not.
I myself have a rape fantasy where I am dominated, but I later learned its just me being highly submissive and wish to be dominated fully, but I do not approve of rape unless its fantasy or faked and does not try to depict a real event.
Rape is just wrong in my eyes.
Whoops me again :-*
You are not dreaming about rape you have a domination urge. And nothing wrong with it. Rape is completly differnt.
Rape is a forced crime, it's a beat of you, there is nothing sexual or sensual in rape. It's just pure violence. I've been raped. When I was a teenager. I can still rembemer its smell. I can still feel its breath. I can still feel what it did in my bottom.
It was pre HIV but I still had to get checked for all the STD's. I remember sitting in the ER area, dressed in my skirt and blouse, my face scarred and bruised, and nurses and docs totally understanding that a perversion like me has probably enjoyed the experience.
I know what to do with rapists
An upset CJ, not at you just memories
Bye
Quote from: CindyJames on April 15, 2009, 05:12:11 AM
Rape is a forced crime, it's a beat of you, there is nothing sexual or sensual in rape. It's just pure violence. I've been raped. When I was a teenager. I can still rembemer its smell. I can still feel its breath. I can still feel what it did in my bottom.
...
An upset CJ, not at you just memories
Yes, quite. One never forgets and yes, one can still "smell" it even after years.
In my estimation it's a crime more horrid than murder as at least the murdered person isn't there to relive and relive the terror and the pain. The "smell" doesn't remain when one's murdered. One doesn't dream about it and wail about it, one doesn't hide herself away when she's murdered.
One does all of that and more when she's raped. There were times that I was "this close" to killing myself because of it.
I've come to a place where the ongoing lives of those who did that to me don't matter any more to me. They lived and hopefully were never put to the same torture that they put me to. But it took long years for me to get to that point. Now, the event is a very real memory, but it is not any longer happening day after day like it did for years.
Rape is not a game and to imagine it as a fantasy is not something I would have any desire to do. Yes, btw, I am also a sub sexually. I enjoy pain games. Did the rape cause that? I dunno. I don't really care, but there are places I refuse to go again and rape is one of them. I suppose knowing the feel of it, the horror of it and the very real agony of it makes me not very desirous of re-experiencing it, even in a role-play.
Nichole
Quote from: mina.m->-bleeped-<-ie link=topic=57336.msg371795#msg371795 date=1239739590
From what I've read we were doing pretty okay during the paleolithic - much more egalitarian, less violent, etc. It's when we settled down and started farming that it all went to hell, I suppose since that's where ownership started.
Mina.
I think it has always been there, there is just more people and better news reporting. If there was no newspapers, internet, tv or radio, how many rape victims would you know or hear about. Somehow I doubt cavemen were exactly romantic or kind to the women or that male attitudes regarding sex have significantly changed since then.
I did not intend to offend anyone and I am sorry if I did.
All I meant is, I do not approve of rape (I was not raped) at all, but my mixed thoughts about it turn into a fantasy of being dominated with the idea of rape in mind (of course, role-playing)
There are plenty of people who have told me about their lives after being raped and I have never seen a rape victim before until then, this was long ago, but they were raped in their pre-teens around the age of 12 or a bit higher and lack any self-esteem.
I can understand what you are going through but I haven't been raped myself and I am glad I have not been.
The only person I would allow to take advantage of me sexually with my permission is my own girlfriend.
Quote from: Janet Merai on April 15, 2009, 03:27:44 PM
I did not intend to offend anyone and I am sorry if I did.
All I meant is, I do not approve of rape (I was not raped) at all, but my mixed thoughts about it turn into a fantasy of being dominated with the idea of rape in mind (of course, role-playing)
There are plenty of people who have told me about their lives after being raped and I have never seen a rape victim before until then, this was long ago, but they were raped in their pre-teens around the age of 12 or a bit higher and lack any self-esteem.
I can understand what you are going through but I haven't been raped myself and I am glad I have not been.
The only person I would allow to take advantage of me sexually with my permission is my own girlfriend.
Dear Janet,
I don't know that you offended anyone. Certainly not me.
We all have fantasies and they are generally just fine. It's when they stray into the "real" that they become extraordinarily hurtful sometimes.
I do hope that you are everso right and that you are never ever in position to be forced to undergo such an event. Of course, I hope that for everyone who hasn't experienced it.
Nichole
Dear Janet
You didn't offend me in the slightest, sorry if you thought so.
Just brought back memories that are still raw.
Love
Cindy James
Quote from: Nichole on April 14, 2009, 10:42:32 AMReally?Just in the past 20 years? So all the violence and ideas like that didn't come from the Dutch, Cecil Rhodes and Omm Paul, etc? To be passed along through Botha and the struggles over apartheid?
Last 20 years = AIDS. That is probably one of the most significant things affecting the current social structure. Blame whomever you want for AIDS, but violence comes with decimated family structures, which comes with AIDS being as widespread as it is in Africa.