http://www.geocities.com/girlinside123/warning.html (http://www.geocities.com/girlinside123/warning.html)
Your thoughts on this article?
I do not believe anyone going into surgery or hormones is unawares of the potential death that follows Any of these things.
I do believe that there are good reasons to choose not to take hormones or have surgery.
That article however, seems over the top. At best.
I am trying to decide which over the top conservative group put this page up. Interesting that none of the numbers of people who commit suicide because they don't transition or marriages lost because people are not willing to come to terms with their GID. Ok I'll stop now, Other than that since I have nothing nice to say I will say nothing at all.
Myles
I once got a friend of mine on a job because he kept on claiming that 'it would be one of his life's goals to work on a show' with the band in question. When he got there he kept on saying how much he was going to like it. My sidekick turned to him and said "So, you really like these guys?" "Oh yeah" was the excited reply, to which my friend deadpanned, "We'll see about changing that for you then."
True enough, by the end of the day, he was a lot less enamored with the concept.
More to the point, I think Winnie the Pooh correctly stated: When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.
It should be of little surprise that a lot of people work very hard to get someplace that once they arrive is not at all where they thought they were going.
It should also be of little surprise that many will arrive very ill-prepared for what they are about to encounter. Take the SF job deal. It's hard for people - even normal ones - to find a good job. People tend to hold on to them, competition is Fierce, and lots of people wind up way over their heads when they find out that having a HS degree back home ain't worth the paper its printed on here, or that having that BA/BS ain't quite enough when the people you are going up against have Masters or beyond.
So that much of it rings true.
Hell one of the places I work is about the easiest jobs in rock. It also is the single lowest paying job in the entire international union. But we work there because we like it. And with five of us on a show, you tend to have about 150 years of experience on the deck. And you might look at it and say (and it would be true to some degree) "hey, let the beginners work that gig, it's easy, and the pay is dirt" (less than half of what I make in other venues) but its not going to happen, so some person hoping to break in, ain't going to be doing it there. As we say (there and in a bunch of other places I work) You don't get trained here, you get here trained. So someone starting out ain't got a prayer.
I remember a person who was trying to get on and said, "Oh I know those lights (lighting system) real well." And I'm looking across the stage at the guy who invented those lights. Huge difference.
So lots of people move to the Bay Area for the liberal environment, but find that getting a job is all but impossible. So they wind up on the streets - rent for a studio apartment in a ->-bleeped-<-ty part of town is $1,000 a month - and it goes downhill from there.
So a lot of it rings true. Its not the right solution for a lot of people who take it up. And, particularly with younger people, they may 'know' the risks, but in their thinking, 'it ain't gonna happen to them.'
Poking around her site, you'll see that she keeps mentioning that she feels she wouldn't be able to pass as a woman, even though she's only 24. I hope she is able to live a happy life in a male body, but that article looks like she's pumping up her own fears about transition.
Quote from: ilikepotatoes on April 24, 2009, 09:35:02 PM
Poking around her site, you'll see that she keeps mentioning that she feels she wouldn't be able to pass as a woman, even though she's only 24. I hope she is able to live a happy life in a male body, but that article looks like she's pumping up her own fears about transition.
Sound as though the author has some issues that she still needs to work out. No one goes into this blind, we all know the risks and the benefits. And to most of us feel that the benefits are worth the risks.
And secondly her site will soon be moved to a new server, because Geocities will be no more. https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59083.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59083.0.html) Which really doesn't have anything to do with her issues, just a point of fact.
Janet
I've ran across this site before. Lots of fear factor but little in the way of reality. There are dangers with any surgery, yet when was the last time someone died from SRS. The facts are serious surgery complications are under 2%-3% which makes it actually pretty safe
My guess is it's actually produced by some nice right winged conservitive christian group as it's way over the top from any other TS site. Just my two cents
Beni
I think that the point about not transitioning unless you have to is prolly a good one that needs to be heeded more. And I think it especially needs to be heeded by those of us who have transitioned or are transitioning most of all.
I sometimes get really antsy when I read, on this site and others, transitioners encouraging newbies, particularly, to "come on in the water's fine." I'm sure it is for those of us who are making lives post-transition or in the midst of transitioning. But, how many of us have seen more than a few would-be transitioners either stop transitioning and de-transition or how many suicides arise from transitioners who decided they did make a mistake and thought for whatever reason they couldn't go back, or found themselves more alone and isolated than they had ever thought possible? (I discovered last week that someone I knew irl three years ago and was always upbeat and extremely positive about transitioning and her life committed suicide within the past few weeks.)
It does take a lot to transition, just as it takes a lot to remain effectively hidden within your life after you transition. Just as it takes a lot to be relatively "out" after you transition. None of it's a lark or the path to uninterrupted and unceasing bliss.
The prices are personal and much about a transition is irrevocable or very close to it. It's not for everyone for any number of reasons.
I personally find articles like these good because they are discouraging to those who may be less than sure that they are willing to pay whatever the price to transition.
I wish there were more stories like this one with a fairly wide circulation and that more people would pay close attention to them.
Transitioning is one of those very personal and very needful events in the lives of many of us. But the fact is it's personal and when it really comes down to it, if someone's hesitating for whatever reason they are prolly best served by me not encouraging them to go ahead anyhow. Better they stop and live with the dissonance than prematurely jump into something they are not totally convinced they must do.
Nichole
Oh some of the statistics are rather dated too (IE 20+ years old).
I like where they say 90 percent of TS marrages fail. Gee so does about 55-60% of non TS marrages.
There is also most awareness abut TS people now. Yes we still have a ways to go to be mainstream. But compared to even 10 years ago things have changed alot.
One think I do agree with Nichole on, is if someone is hesitant or questions if they really are TS, then they need to fall back and think about it, before doing anything that can't be undone for it is forever. Me I never had any questions as to who I was. It's not an easy path but for some it's the only path.
No one goes into this blind, we all know the risks and the benefits.
I don't believe that for a second. Far too many people see what they want, and ignore the rest. Most of the time in life its no big deal, but it can be.
There is also most awareness abut TS people now
I think there was a point in there about that. As more and more people are aware, it's a lot harder to hide, or go 'stealth' - its a lot harder to hide when people know what they are looking for, or at.
Some of what is said there miss-construes a few things. A perfect example is 20% suicide rate post S.R.S., how many of those people had other problems. Maybe they expected S.R.S. to fix them, maybe not, but odds are there was some underlying issues. Combine that with post surgery depression...
I'm not saying the whole page is B.S., my first thought was this was some religious group who wrote it as well. This page reads like a scare tactic. which is why I thought that.
However, I do think people do need to be aware of the consequences of what can happen and should not rush into things. We all should be made aware of these things. We should be discussing them and making new people aware of it. We also should be discussing these things with our therapists and figure out ways to deal with it.
Does everyone do this, NO. There are several (relatively) high profile cases of people who went through with it only to find it was wrong for them. They of course launch campaigns to stop everyone from making the same "mistake" they did.
Well, I agree with Beni, I knew what I wanted probably all the way back since I was a kid but the problem was the information on what Trans and GID was not that readily available back then and I didn't discover it until years later.
Even then I didn't jump in blind. I did some research on the statistics of transitioning and all of the possible hardships that one may encounter from society as well as my physical and mental health. I took the good and the bad and just moved ahead with what needed to be done.
Yes I quite agree with Nichole as well.QuoteTransitioning is one of those very personal and very needful events in the lives of many of us. But the fact is it's personal and when it really comes down to it, if someone's hesitating for whatever reason they are prolly best served by me not encouraging them to go ahead anyhow. Better they stop and live with the dissonance than prematurely jump into something they are not totally convinced they must do.
Furthermore, yes I quite agree with Tekla. Unfortunately very few of us will successfully be able to remain stealth after transition for any number of reasons, not passing might be only just 1 reason out of a kazilion other reasons, yet you can be as obvious as all get out and pass. Most times one may even out themselves by their own choice for whatever reason.QuoteI think there was a point in there about that. As more and more people are aware, it's a lot harder to hide, or go 'stealth' - its a lot harder to hide when people know what they are looking for, or at.
Cindy
Well, for a start:
QuoteBut assuming that physically the woman is completely female externally and reasonably feminine in overall appearance, then passing is often about the small things - things that are second nature for some one brought up as girl but entirely strange for a man - things that Hollywood often has a field day over when a man impersonates a woman in a comedy. If you look awkward in heels, struggle to touch-up your makeup, don't recognise Channel No. 5, ... well cumulatively over weeks it might become strange to people...
Is a wee tad stereotypical. I grew up female and I couldn't walk in heels if you paid me (at least couldn't look natural doing it, and trust me I tried). I bought my mother Chanel no. 5 every birthday, but damned if I could recognize the smell. And don't get me started on makeup. I tried it a few times and it didn't work. Nuff said.
However, I agree enthusiastically and wholeheartedly with what Tekla and Nichole have said. This is a serious decision. The grass is not always greener on the other side. If you can live where you are, and the risks, seriously considered risks, aren't worth it, then don't. This is an irreversible decision. If I decided to go back, I have a beard, a deep voice, and no tits. Living as female would be unthinkable for me. It was bad enough when I had a low voice and an unfeminine body. I hated it (and I don't mean any disrespect to androgynes here, but I hated being in between). If you are uncomfortable with being a feminine man or a masculine woman and you go partway, you will be worse off.
Many of us on this board are enthusiastic about our lives, and that may sometimes come off as "come on in, the water's fine". That's really only the case for those of us who've had a huge load lifted of us from transitioning. And props to Tekla for quoting Winnie the Pooh. The bear of very little brain has much wisdom:
QuoteWhen you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it
Dennis
Post Merge: April 25, 2009, 12:55:19 AM
Oh, and stealth? If you care about that, best get acquainted with the internet, Patriot Act, and other ways people can find your past. Best strategy, I find, is not to be ashamed of who you are.
I think it's mostly a good article up until the part where she quotes something from the infamous Archives of Sexual Behavior. It is a big huge serious decision and to think otherwise IS dangerous. Still, I think overall it is pretty fair, except for a few parts in the hormones warning section where it basically says: 'warning: if you take hormones you will have to deal with some things that normal men/women deal with anyway!'
Funny, in a post immediately preceding this one is this quote.
I feel I messed up on the HRT bit, even though it was short time, and there is minor distribution to my chest. I don't know how I'm going to handle life exactly, I'm kind of a screwed up case anyway. Anyway, at least I was smart enough to stop in tracks before things were a real problem.
I think Cindy is right in that often there are multiple problems, and a single solution is not going to be a catch-all cure. Only when its the one and only course, made - as a will - of sound mind and body, should it be considered.
Sound mind sure -- I'm sure how you can qualify sound body for a possible transsexual :P. But yes, transition is not really a decision well made in times of desperation.
To my observation what the article is saying, as well as Nichole's thoughts on it, is *be convinced without doubt* as to what transitioning means to you.
When you begin transforming you are basically beginning a process to make the inside congruent with the outside. And, "NOT" to discover to late you have made a wrong choice or error. To be certain that you "SHOULD" have had no doubt that you have made the right decision before proceeding. Also, do you understand all the medical requirements and the potential complications that could arise?
Nichol.QuoteBut, how many of us have seen more than a few would-be transitioners either stop transitioning and de-transition or how many suicides arise from transitioners who decided they did make a mistake and thought for whatever reason they couldn't go back, or found themselves more alone and isolated than they had ever thought possible?
Cindy
For me, I couldn't live as a woman any more, not when I knew I could finally be myself. The risks were worth it.
My mother thought I was moving too fast, and wanted to know what if -- what if I were making a huge mistake?
My response was that I'd already lived half my life in the wrong body/gender; if this is a mistake, then what's the difference spending the second half of my life in the wrong body/gender? Only I know it's not a mistake. I may end up forever single as a result; but there was no guarantee I'd find love before, either.
It was a no brainer for me, but I did my research and did what I had to do FOR ME. Not for anyone else.
Jay
For me and for many it was "Transition or die". I could go on playing a guy on the stage of life and sooner or later my suicide games would work, or I could gamble EVERYTHING on becoming female. I would not have done it if ANYTHING else would have worked! I have said as much in my posts and blog here and elsewhere. But now that I am here I am in love with life.
I have said that this is a "blessing inside a curse" and, to those who are also transsexual, if/when they transitioned, they too would find life a remarkable treasure.
I never downplayed the effort required to walk this path and have been quite upfront about the issues that face people like us.
This is a terrible burden to carry and it can kill if not treated. Faced with those options, if it sounds like I am saying "Come on it the water's fine!" then my words are being misinterpreted.
I've seen this persons site before and it gives the impression that being transsexual is a curse and no matter what you do about it you will still be cursed. And that may be their opinion, so be it. It seems to be trying to convince the author more than anyone reading the site that it is too dangerous to do.
It is dangerous.
So is living.
In death only are we forever out of danger.
I'll take my chances now, thank you.
-Sandy
as you know, i'm one of those radical women that thinks that if a person is in fact transsexual, s/he will transition fully. a transgender person may have more "options' but a ts doesn't. the article? baloney!
I don't know if anybody noticed it but the ending/bottom line
"There's always the next life."
sounds so sad... It's really depressing to hear that a person, regardless
of sex/gender/trans or not is so "happy" with their life that their comfort is
in fact that maybe someday after all this sh**, new, better life will come...
Well at least it sounded so to me :-X
OK..it was a little OTT in places, but it does serve a useful purpose with good content, if a little tedious to read at times.
I tend to agree with the need for a "Transition or Die" type mindset quoted by so many here (or something close to it), in which case the article can only serve to deter the "uncertain transitioner", which I see as totally positive.
Chrissty
Quote from: Kiera on April 25, 2009, 09:41:34 AM
i think it's very well written and important web content and feel anybody that doesn't take it seriously to heart is somehow kidding themselves.
It's hard to take it seriously because a good chunk of the piece is full of outdated or inaccurate information or her personal opinions. I do admire her for opening by referencing Zelda.
Katia, Sandy, and Chrissty. I'm afraid I also come from the same old school.
Transitioning: If you are afraid of getting burned then don't play with the matches.
P.S.
I transitioned because I could not handle playing along with the lie anymore, It certainly wasn't because I was the bravest person in the world either. That is why at times I sign off as The House Mouse.
I'm the transition-or-die type too. Excuses, excuses, excuses & more excuses only mean I don't have the NEED to transition.
I think this page is a great tool for one reason...It gives people thing to consider and think about. When someone is coming to terms with things whether they are 13 or 33 or 63, these are realities that need to be dealt with. Without getting into semantics, if someone transitions they will hopefully have come to terms with all of these things. It doesn't matter whether you see it as a choice or not, what matters is that you know what could or will come your way. These don't really look like anything surprising to me, but if they surprise someone before they transition or during, then I think that's a great thing. Meghan
At this point in this thread I believe that a bit of "rehash" might be in order.
For me, and for many others, there was a compelling need from deep within for a person to make their body congruent with their inner-self. The inner-self can be pretty obstinate about accepting the misalignment between the body its occupant.
If all one has is a "desire" to transition it is better that they don't start. There is a chasm between a "desire," a thing that has a much larger take-it-or-leave-it component than a "need." A need must be filled before one can progress to another level of existence. A desire can go unmet without catastrophic damage to the one who has the desire.
The real life experience (RLE) is an indespensible part of the transition. IMHO it separates the desire from the need, the actual from the vicarious experience. If one sincerely believes that their gender misalignment is an accident of birth, that person will start, endure, and grow within their target gender while living each minute of the RLE.
The RLE is not an option. It is a difficult course filled with obstacles and discomfort.
Imagine going home on a Friday afternoon on the same subway and bus you have been riding for years, filled with nodding acquaintances and casual friends that you have made, then go to work on Monday morning on the same bus and train that took you to your job for years, in your target gender. How does one deal with the strange looks and the stupid questions that might be waiting?
Now take that scenario and apply it to the dry cleaner's, the pharmacy, and the supermarket. One might hear males of the species grunting like a pig or making sucking noises. Other females might laugh when the person who is transitioning is in the area.
Can you take it? if you can't, maybe you'd be better off to stay in the gender to which you were born.
A simple, physical necessity like relieving nature usually becomes a big issue in the workplace. It is an issue of sufficient import to cause one to quit a good job or be sacked from it because they chose to use the wrong washroom.
Need Vs. desire. There's a big difference. Transition changes everything. Marriages die from it. Careers are ended by it. Families become alienated. It's possible that even the dog becomes confused.
No one should have surgery without successfully completing a medically or psychologically supervised RLE. It must be done and the results discussed during its progress. Hormone Replacement Therapy makes physical, mental, and emotional changes that cannot be entirely undone but I believe that it is far better to turn back during the RLE than it is to have Gender Reasssignment Surgery with even the slightest hint of a doubt as to its need in one's life. Need, not a desire.
Transitioning from one's birth gender to a target gender isn't like getting one's hair cut or colored or getting one's nails colored. These are temporary changes. HRT and GRS are forever.
It doesn't take guts to transition. I believe that it takes desperation, a pressing need and not even a strong desire.
So this is my thorough and complete thoughts and feelings on this subject article of this thread.
Cindy
Quote from: ilikepotatoes on April 24, 2009, 09:35:02 PM
Poking around her site, you'll see that she keeps mentioning that she feels she wouldn't be able to pass as a woman, even though she's only 24. I hope she is able to live a happy life in a male body, but that article looks like she's pumping up her own fears about transition.
Yup, pretty much. I have seen that persons just made up a LOT of excuses to why not to transition. Or to why its not the right thing (even if it is) or why they are a failure.
A lot of the time its just self loathing and auto sabotage.
I wonder what this means:
QuoteThere are people for whom the need to transition is a medical, physical condition.
Its this person talking about those that are intersex and want to transition? I would include in those words, those that are TS (without having any IS issues) that NEED to do transition or they will commit suicide.
Plus those warnings are being used for fear not in the right sense. I mean and sorry if I offend someone. But if you start transition with your eyes shut out. Then you are kinda stupid because you didnt do you job in collecting info.
Transition its NOT for the weak of heart. It takes a lot, you need to be ready to lose everything. To know what are the medical risk.
And finally, SRS its not because you want to have super orgasm. But to being in the correct body, to be comfortable with your body finally. The sex thing its an added bonus.
I think the article is useful. If someone reads it, and still wants to transition, then they really want to transition. That's valuable. Nobody should be going into transition under any delusions.
Quote from: GinaDouglas on April 25, 2009, 11:52:05 PM
I think the article is useful. If someone reads it, and still wants to transition, then they really want to transition. That's valuable. Nobody should be going into transition under any delusions.
I fully agree. I just dont like the way that article its being worded. I prefer the writing style of the Lynn Conway "warning" section.
Quote
I think the article is useful. If someone reads it, and still wants to transition, then they really want to transition. That's valuable. Nobody should be going into transition under any delusions.
I do quite agree with your post Zelane
I also agree with the part of transitioning is not for the week of heart although guts has nothing to do with it either. It is simply an irresistible need where you are willing to do it to be yourself at any cost.
Just for once to be at peace in mind body and soul.
Cindy
I read through this site some time ago after she advertised on an androgyne LJ I was on. I wrote the author an email asking for more information and speaking to my own experience. I can tell you this isn't some right wing construct based on the email response I received. She is struggling much like the rest of us and recognizes she doesn't have all the answers. That being said, I feel many of the comments made already related to the content of the site is correct in that it better represents her own fears than reality. Just another one of us looking for validation of the choices we have made.
Quote from: Katia on April 25, 2009, 08:07:35 AM
as you know, i'm one of those radical women that thinks that if a person is in fact transsexual, s/he will transition fully. a transgender person may have more "options' but a ts doesn't. the article? baloney!
Damn, I guess I need to stop identifying as TS. ;)
QuoteDamn, I guess I need to stop identifying as TS.
Hi Interalia hun, you know me by now I try to treat everyone with love and respect, even if I don't see the same thing eye to eye with them, and I do my best to keep an open mind.
I never chucked out your theory of detransitioning yet, hey if you can do that my friend, you will have discovered an inroad to something that was never achieved successfully by any truly transsexual person that I am aware of yet.
If you can show me you can do this and live your life content and happy, heck it won't be hats off to you, I don't wear hats, so maybe I'll take up wearing a hat "eh." All I am trying to say is don't chuck out the TS name plate yet, just put it up on a shelf where you know where to find it, if you should ever need it again.
Cindy
Quote from: Katia on April 25, 2009, 08:07:35 AM
as you know, i'm one of those radical women that thinks that if a person is in fact transsexual, s/he will transition fully. a transgender person may have more "options' but a ts doesn't. the article? baloney!
With respect that premiss is flawed and incredibly Western centric. How can a poor person in the wilds of Afghanistan for example transition fully? Many people in the West also can't transition for a variety of socio-economic and medical reasons.
Quote from: Pia on April 25, 2009, 04:29:26 PM
I'm the transition-or-die type too. Excuses, excuses, excuses & more excuses only mean I don't have the NEED to transition.
Thank you for posting this, as it made me finally realise just why I disagree so strongly with the transition-or-die party line.
I'm entirely willing to accept that some use the term
transsexual to refer to those who absolutely need to transition -- in fact, that's what the medical establishment over here does. It's not quite how the term is supposed to be used in these forums, but that's not a big deal as long as we all understand each other. Unfortunately, the difference seems to go deeper than that.
In the past I have experienced pretty serious dysphoria. Not enough to make me consider suicide, but nevertheless I have already spent a couple of years trying to figure out just how long I can live with the body I have, and I may never know it for certain. Now, dismissing this as 'excuses, excuses, excuses & more excuses' that 'only mean
I don't have the NEED to transition' is another way of saying that I'm just lying to myself, either about being dysphoric or about being able to look at both the positive and negative aspects of transition. A true transsexual knows my situation better than I do.
To put it simply, the transition-or-die position claims transsexual privilege and denies that privilege from the likes of me.
Nfr
Any surgery is dangerous. Even something as simple as a circumcision. All of the bad side effects listed which can be caused by HRT are also caused by eating junk food. Eating fast food daily causes many health problems.
transsexualism isn't an "identity"; it's a diagnosable & treatable medical condition characterized by intense gender dysphoria & body dysmorphia. like with any medical condition you either fit the medical criteria or you don't. it isn't rocket science.
"non-op" is a term that's becoming increasingly difficult to justify. in the past it referred only to those people who were transsexual but were unable to have surgery for clinical reasons. yet improvements in surgical and anaesthetic techniques and procedures now mean that there are very, very few people who are genuinely unable to have surgery for those reasons. harry benjamin used the term "transgenderist" for non-ops but it's important to mention that he also noted "wavering between TV and TS"
QuoteType Four: Non-op Transsexual
Gender Feeling: Undecided. Wavering between TV and TS.
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Dresses as often as possible with insufficient relief of his gender discomfort. May live as a man or woman; sometimes alternating.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Libido often low. Asexual or auto-erotic. Could be bisexual. Could also be married and have children.
Kinsey Scale: 1-4
Conversion Operation: Attractive but not requested or attraction not admitted.
Estrogen Medication: Needed for comfort and emotional balance.
Psychotherapy: Only as guidance; otherwise refused or unsuccessful.
Remarks: Social life dependent upon circumstances.
harry benjamin's scale: http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Benjamin_Scale (http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Benjamin_Scale)
QuoteGroup Three: Transvestitic Transsexual Gender Identity: Ambivalent gender identity. Value male sex organs but feel feminine. "She-Male"
Gender Role: Dresses as much as possible depending on life circumstances. Dressing not necessarily sexual. Impulses often intensify with age and may crystalize into a transsexual picture.
Eroticism: Genital and breast.
Biological Feminization: Spironolactone for demasculinization + gynecomastia. Some may need hormones for emotional balance.
Conflicts: Confusion and personality disorganization, dual personality with male and female names and disassociated personality components.
Desire for Re-assignment: May consider late if very inadequate as males, dependent on commitments.
Treatment: Integrative psychotherapy to stabilize androgeny. Support for re-assignment if appropriate.
dr. watson's: http://www.genderpsychology.org/transsexual/watson.html (http://www.genderpsychology.org/transsexual/watson.html)
Benjamin also said:
QuoteThe transsexual (TS) male or female is deeply unhappy as a member of the sex (or gender) to which he or she was assigned by the anatomical structure of the body, particularly the genitals. To avoid misunderstanding: this has nothing to do with hermaphroditism. The transsexual is physically normal (although occasionally underdeveloped) [2]. These persons can somewhat appease their unhappiness by dressing in the clothes of the opposite sex, that is to say, by cross-dressing, and they are, therefore, ->-bleeped-<-s too. But while "dressing" would satisfy the true ->-bleeped-<- (who is content with his morphological sex), it is only incidental and not more than a partial or temporary help to the transsexual. True transsexuals feel that they belong to the other sex, they want to be and function as members of the opposite sex, not only to appear as such. For them, their sex organs, the primary (testes) as well as the secondary (penis and others) are disgusting deformities that must be changed by the surgeon's knife. This attitude appears to be the chief differential diagnostic point between the two syndromes (sets of symptoms) - that is, those of transvestism and transsexualism.
more here: http://www.symposion.com/ijt/benjamin/chap_02.htm#Transvestism%20versus%20transsexualism (http://www.symposion.com/ijt/benjamin/chap_02.htm#Transvestism%20versus%20transsexualism)
also, the term "non-op transsexual" is an oxymoron. the term "transsexual" was coined by a reporter in the late 50's after christine jorgensen had her surgery. at that point in time, there were only 2 terms. ts for those who obtained/wanted surgery, and tv for those who didn't. the term tg was coined in the late 60's around the time of the stonewall riots and was first used for those who lived as the other sex without grs. so it was for someone who was more serious than a crossdresser, but without the desire for a complete transition. that is what a non-op is, not a preop who must stay there. non-op is in one's head, not in their circumstances.
if a person cannot have grs, they are pre-op, rather than a non-op. if they could get surgery, they would. a non-op is one who would never get surgery even if you wrote them a check for a million dollars.
furthermore, for me, "can't-op" or "perpetual preop" is not the same as non-op. a non-op has nothing against their original parts below. non-op is a mindset rather than a condition. what i call a "can't-op" is someone who is too disadvantaged, sick, or elderly to get surgery. so there is a big difference between having the non-op mindset and simply being unable to have grs.
btw i don't attach ts onto the end of non-op. i consider non-op people a variety of tg but not ts, not better or worse, just different & ya i know about the site terms & definitions, i also know there's a child board for non-ops on here. that doesn't change what harry benjamin said nor does it change what i believe.
The great thing about real people is that they rarely ever fit into convenient categories.
Quote from: Seshatneferw on April 26, 2009, 05:25:11 AM
To put it simply, the transition-or-die position claims transsexual privilege and denies that privilege from the likes of me.
Nfr
Unlike other diseases like diabetes or other physically visible malady, ours is a very personal singular condition. Each of us must make our own diagnosis of what we are. Each of us must choose how we wish to self identify.
Lord knows that there are a myriad of labels to choose from, TV, TG, TS, Drag, queer, queen, king. ad nausium. But in the end it is an INTERNAL term. It is a singular FEELING inside each and every one of us that tells us what we are. And of what we are comfortable with in being identified by our selves.
I claim that I am woman with a transsexual condition. That is my internal self identification. I came to that understanding when I finally figured out that just being a fellow that like to wear ladies underwear didn't answer all the questions in my life. It was an epiphany of near religious proportions. Light dawned and angels sang when I finally had the answer.
I knew what I was and the name, or label that I would call myself, internally.
My path is unique, and so is everyone else's. There isn't a test, we do not "show", there is no observable condition that a trained physician or observant parent could detect, other than in our most extreme siblings that we portray a severe identification for the cross gender.
There are some of us that say that we all need a global term or terms that put us into identifiable categories. So be it. Call me what you like. I already know what I am.
So too, MY internal identification does not require ANYONE else to identify the same way. Call yourself what you like, what ever you are comfortable with. Actually I encourage it.
Very few ever have to go through the same level of self identification that people in our community do. We have to diagnose ourselves before we can seek help. This is unique.
So in that regard I would NEVER claim that my condition precludes yours. I am not more privileged than you.
We have much more in common than anything that would separate us. And in that respect we walk this path together.
-Sandy
I think the article serves one useful purpose. If it can talk you out of transitioning, you probably don't need to transition.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
Quote from: Katia on April 26, 2009, 09:12:31 AM
transsexualism isn't an "identity"; it's a diagnosable & treatable medical condition characterized by intense gender dysphoria & body dysmorphia. like with any medical condition you either fit the medical criteria or you don't. it isn't rocket science.
"non-op" is a term that's becoming increasingly difficult to justify. in the past it referred only to those people who were transsexual but were unable to have surgery for clinical reasons. yet improvements in surgical and anaesthetic techniques and procedures now mean that there are very, very few people who are genuinely unable to have surgery for those reasons. harry benjamin used the term "transgenderist" for non-ops but it's important to mention that he also noted "wavering between TV and TS"
harry benjamin's scale: http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Benjamin_Scale (http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Benjamin_Scale)
dr. watson's: http://www.genderpsychology.org/transsexual/watson.html (http://www.genderpsychology.org/transsexual/watson.html)
Benjamin also said:
more here: http://www.symposion.com/ijt/benjamin/chap_02.htm#Transvestism%20versus%20transsexualism (http://www.symposion.com/ijt/benjamin/chap_02.htm#Transvestism%20versus%20transsexualism)
also, the term "non-op transsexual" is an oxymoron. the term "transsexual" was coined by a reporter in the late 50's after christine jorgensen had her surgery. at that point in time, there were only 2 terms. ts for those who obtained/wanted surgery, and tv for those who didn't. the term tg was coined in the late 60's around the time of the stonewall riots and was first used for those who lived as the other sex without grs. so it was for someone who was more serious than a crossdresser, but without the desire for a complete transition. that is what a non-op is, not a preop who must stay there. non-op is in one's head, not in their circumstances.
if a person cannot have grs, they are pre-op, rather than a non-op. if they could get surgery, they would. a non-op is one who would never get surgery even if you wrote them a check for a million dollars.
furthermore, for me, "can't-op" or "perpetual preop" is not the same as non-op. a non-op has nothing against their original parts below. non-op is a mindset rather than a condition. what i call a "can't-op" is someone who is too disadvantaged, sick, or elderly to get surgery. so there is a big difference between having the non-op mindset and simply being unable to have grs.
btw i don't attach ts onto the end of non-op. i consider non-op people a variety of tg but not ts, not better or worse, just different & ya i know about the site terms & definitions, i also know there's a child board for non-ops on here. that doesn't change what harry benjamin said nor does it change what i believe.
Very well put Katia, and I agree.
LR
Quote from: Seshatneferw on April 26, 2009, 05:25:11 AM
To put it simply, the transition-or-die position claims transsexual privilege and denies that privilege from the likes of me.
I'm fine with someone who doesn't transition or detransitions claiming the term transsexual, but--just by browsing Susans--a lot of people who take that route don't seem to be all that
happy with their lives not transitioning, such as young woman who wrote this piece.
Transitioning or not transitioning, pre-op, post-op, non-op, never-even-considered-doing-anything-but-dressing-every-now-and-then or started/stopped/started agin/stopped again --- none of it brings happiness as thouh it's some deus ex machina flying in from the wings to center-stage to sprinkle fairy dust all over someone and make him pr her suddenly sane, happy, content and totally congruent.
The arguments about names and definitions and who's better-than or worse-than who has enough money, balls, courage, fear, suicidal ideation or death-wish to do it, not, stay forever halfway mean absolutely N-O-T-H-I-N-G.
Katia has ideas, Ladyrider has ideas, Kristi, Nfr, Mister, Pia, Sandy, cindybc, ilikepotatoes, imaz and Nichole all have ideas about O-U-R lives and how they have worked-out, or haven't or what they might have been like if we hadn't done what we did or if transition had waited or been sooner, etc.
It's all just very intensely personal and the attempts to make everyone fit into a specific mould or straight-jacket mostly defined by how I feel or think or react to my own life's circumstances is one useless preoccupation.
Thank Mother I have but one life to lead at a time in this plane and needn't live everyone else's for them. My own seems a lot to handle most days.
I can say what I wish and declare what I wish -- all it may do is make me personal feel better about how I have decided to live me life, give me some sense that my choice was the "right and only real choice." Screw that.
We have a rather unique situation in which, as Sandy very rightly points out, that ONLy we can diagnose what we have. Then we say and do things with a therapist or medical doctor that clinch that diagnosis. And tbh, it's not very hard to say "all the right things" if you're intent on getting surgery, whether or not you are trans-anything.
There are thousands of pages of primer material available. And the odds of you being found out at once monthly sessions with much of anyone is pretty much zero, unless your previously diagnosed mental disorder flairs out of your control and you spill the beans yopurself you can pretty much go from man to woman as you will -- it's been done -- or woman to man as you will.
Should you? I rather think not and yes, that's exactly what this article is good at putting out there.
As for all the definition stuff -- have your own, you basically do anyhow, no matter who you are and where you came from. It's the human condition.
Nichole
For some of us the gloom and doom figures about the possibility of death are a plus rather than a minus.
Quote from: Ladyrider on April 26, 2009, 10:42:02 AM
Very well put Katia, and I agree.
Ah, but you are a transsexual? ;)
Around the time I came here, I read a lot of stuff along the same lines. All of what Katia quoted, and a lot more, describe under the label of 'transsexual' just the feelings I've had since about primary school. The collective wisdom, right from the Benjamin scale onwards, is that transsexual people will all eventually need to transition. Now, when I came here I wasn't sure about that, but since I had that pesky dysphoria about my physical sex and had never had any desire whatsoever to cross-dress, I let myself be convinced that I too was transsexual and thus would need to transition -- and of course, the sooner it was over the better. The next couple of months were pretty hard.
However, it eventually dawned on me that I really should trust my own feelings, once I had figured out what they were. Around the same time I found the androgyne section here, and saw that there were a few people with roughly similar issues. About a year and a half later I parted company with my therapist, as we both agreed that there was no need for regular sessions -- I was pretty stable with regard to my gender. But on the Benjamin scale the descriptions for 'true transsexual' are still the ones that most closely match how I feel.
Now, I do not want to claim that I'm true transsexual, whatever that means. I'm simply annoyed by the claims that there is a sharp difference between TS and TG, because my experience clearly shows to me that this is not always the case. Whether it's a matter of intensity, or of having an extraordinarily good fantasy life, or something else, is not important; the important part is that not everyone who has a continuous and intense desire for a different set of genitals and does not care about cross-dressing automatically needs to transition. Such claims, and my desire to finally find a gender group I belong to, almost made me mess up large sections of my life -- and if that happened to me that could easily happen to someone else.
That is what I really find horrible in all this.
Nfr
Quote from: Seshatneferw on April 26, 2009, 02:13:44 PM
Ah, but you are a transsexual? ;)
<cut>
Nfr
Of course not... :) Well not any more. I was diagnosed with GID in accordance with DSM-IV by both my therapists, supported by my physician, and classified by them under ICD as transsexual. All recommended a medically supervised treatment regimen that involved the administration of medications, the monitoring of my social and physical well being, continuing therapy, culminating in surgical procedures to correct deformities that were causing me much anxiety.
Happily treatment was successful and I was cured. So again nope not transsexual, but simply a woman. :)
Is there danger? Indeed there is. Every aspect of transition is fraught with danger and I feel the article tries to point that out.
LR
Hi Kiera hun, Quote"pre-op" because i cannot afford it right now does that mean i must also be "unhappy"?
No it does not mean you have to be unhappy. Being pre-op means just that, unable to at the present time. I thought I would never get the funds or opportunity to have the surgery.
My #1 priority was to resign to adjust to life living in the mind and body as who I presented one day at a time. I was happy being who I was and accomplished much and never gave what was south of the border much of a though except for when I went to the bathroom.
#2 I wasn't looking for a male partner, actually at the time I wasn't looking for any partners male or female to worry about any hang-ups that way. I was way much to busy fitting into society to worry much about anything else.
So the day came I was by all description to an outside observer a female.
All I did was just put the need for surgery on the back burner and worked on all the other aspects of being the best me I could.
Cindy
I agree with many points here - the article serves as a good (albeit slightly hypochondrial) warning of the dangers involved. I also agree that although the author has probably written this more for her own benefit (as this little tidbit reveals:
QuoteCONCLUSION: Ironically, in a lot of ways, I'm too traditionally feminine to do this! There's quite a bit of truth in the phrase "man enough to become a woman" (and, yes, I have come across this phrase!). It looks like transitioning is only an option for more masculine or androgynous women in men's bodies. (There's a concept to stretch your mind around!) In fact, studies show that successful transsexuals are "healthily androgynous"--something I, unfortunately, am not. Even then, they have to be willing to be thought of as transsexuals instead of as women. After what I went through growing up, I couldn't live with that.
it still may serve as a good reality check to those who may not have thought this through thoroughly enough.
Quote from: Nichole on April 26, 2009, 11:58:15 AM
<Cut>
The arguments about names and definitions and who's better-than or worse-than who has enough money, balls, courage, fear, suicidal ideation or death-wish to do it, not, stay forever halfway mean absolutely N-O-T-H-I-N-G.
Katia has ideas, Ladyrider has ideas, Kristi, Nfr, Mister, Pia, Sandy, cindybc, ilikepotatoes, imaz and Nichole all have ideas about O-U-R lives and how they have worked-out, or haven't or what they might have been like if we hadn't done what we did or if transition had waited or been sooner, etc.
But surely opinion is a valuable thing. After all this is a "forum" where opinion should be expected, along with ideas, notions, facts or fiction, advise and support. We all have opinions, some that we hold dear, and expressing them, while meaning "absolutely nothing" to some, may be valuable to others. Just my opinion :)
Quote
It's all just very intensely personal and the attempts to make everyone fit into a specific mould or straight-jacket mostly defined by how I feel or think or react to my own life's circumstances is one useless preoccupation.
But then there are those who have a need to fit in to a specific mould, something to identify with. Just like here at Susan's... everyone is expected to accept being included under the TG umbrella... "
You can not say you are not transgender" while at Susan's anyway, it's a way of making everyone fit into a specific mould or straight jacket.
Quote
<Cut>
We have a rather unique situation in which, as Sandy very rightly points out, that ONLy we can diagnose what we have. Then we say and do things with a therapist or medical doctor that clinch that diagnosis. And tbh, it's not very hard to say "all the right things" if you're intent on getting surgery, whether or not you are trans-anything.
There are thousands of pages of primer material available. And the odds of you being found out at once monthly sessions with much of anyone is pretty much zero, unless your previously diagnosed mental disorder flairs out of your control and you spill the beans yopurself you can pretty much go from man to woman as you will -- it's been done -- or woman to man as you will.
Many surgeons requires two letters (If they follow the criteria) from two independent therapists who are in essence not part of the same team/practice. A patient may be able to fool one therapist but fooling two would be a little more difficult. But then what idiot would got though the hell of transition and surgery on a whim. I agree that there have been some cases of misguided souls that hit the airwaves who have regretted what they've done but compared to the total number of success stories I would imagine that the number of "Mistakes" is low.
Quote
As for all the definition stuff -- have your own, you basically do anyhow, no matter who you are and where you came from. It's the human condition.
Nichole
Just my opinion :)
LR
Quoteeveryone is expected to accept being included under the TG umbrella... "You can not say you are not transgender" while at Susan's anyway, it's a way of making everyone fit into a specific mould or straight jacket.
I am my own stripe of cat, have been a loner most of my life and rejected by most of the mainstream of society, nothing to do with being trans, just different. I don't always approve of the way that society in general tries to label members of the human race, attempting to put us in our own in little box type of deal. It doesn't work that way I'm afraid. IMHO it would probably be about as productive as trying to herd cats.
I would like to think I have been here at Susan's long enough to have discovered I am not the only one here who is their own stripe of cat.
I am a woman with a history of having been transsexual. I don't fit in any particular little boxes. I don't want to fit in under anyone's umbrella. However, I did come back here to this group after being away for 7 years with the hopes of my being able to share my experiences and give support to those who seek it.
I got kicked in the shins a few times for having misinterpreted and misunderstood the diference between TG and TS but when ever I do I am quite prompt in making apologies and I move on. I learn, I stumble, and get up, move on, and continue to learn and in the learning I accumulate tools to work with that help me to give guidance to others on this journey.
Cindy
Quote from: Ladyrider on April 26, 2009, 05:14:17 PM
Quote from: nichole<Cut>
The arguments about names and definitions and who's better-than or worse-than who has enough money, balls, courage, fear, suicidal ideation or death-wish to do it, not, stay forever halfway mean absolutely N-O-T-H-I-N-G.
Katia has ideas, Ladyrider has ideas, Kristi, Nfr, Mister, Pia, Sandy, cindybc, ilikepotatoes, imaz and Nichole all have ideas about O-U-R lives and how they have worked-out, or haven't or what they might have been like if we hadn't done what we did or if transition had waited or been sooner, etc.
But surely opinion is a valuable thing. After all this is a "forum" where opinion should be expected, along with ideas, notions, facts or fiction, advise and support. We all have opinions, some that we hold dear, and expressing them, while meaning "absolutely nothing" to some, may be valuable to others. Just my opinion :)
Quote from: nicholeIt's all just very intensely personal and the attempts to make everyone fit into a specific mould or straight-jacket mostly defined by how I feel or think or react to my own life's circumstances is one useless preoccupation.
But then there are those who have a need to fit in to a specific mould, something to identify with. Just like here at Susan's... everyone is expected to accept being included under the TG umbrella... "You can not say you are not transgender" while at Susan's anyway, it's a way of making everyone fit into a specific mould or straight jacket.
Quote from: nichole<Cut>
We have a rather unique situation in which, as Sandy very rightly points out, that ONLy we can diagnose what we have. Then we say and do things with a therapist or medical doctor that clinch that diagnosis. And tbh, it's not very hard to say "all the right things" if you're intent on getting surgery, whether or not you are trans-anything.
There are thousands of pages of primer material available. And the odds of you being found out at once monthly sessions with much of anyone is pretty much zero, unless your previously diagnosed mental disorder flairs out of your control and you spill the beans yopurself you can pretty much go from man to woman as you will -- it's been done -- or woman to man as you will.
Many surgeons requires two letters (If they follow the criteria) from two independent therapists who are in essence not part of the same team/practice. A patient may be able to fool one therapist but fooling two would be a little more difficult. But then what idiot would got though the hell of transition and surgery on a whim. I agree that there have been some cases of misguided souls that hit the airwaves who have regretted what they've done but compared to the total number of success stories I would imagine that the number of "Mistakes" is low.
Quote from: nicholeAs for all the definition stuff -- have your own, you basically do anyhow, no matter who you are and where you came from. It's the human condition.
Nichole
Just my opinion :)
LR
heh hehe.. ladyrider i agree with you. very well put. we're here to express opinions, otherwise what's the point of this forum? naturally we won't all think in the same way and so it's terrific when we can agree to disagree. thing is that anyone and i mean anyone, regardless of the situation who gets defensive is in fear. something external triggers or reminds them of something unresolved and they go into fear. and this is all happening unconsciously; most don't even realize what they're doing! defensiveness is exactly that: defending against perceived external threats. the irony is that the threat lies WITHIN them.
something external triggers or reminds them of something unresolved and they go into fear. and this is all happening unconsciously; most don't even realize what they're doing! defensiveness is exactly that: defending against perceived external threats. the irony is that the threat lies WITHIN them.
Who left it unresolved?
Who lets it trigger?
Not realizing is just another way of saying, 'can't be bothered to pay attention."
No one is obligated to defend you, so you best learn to defend yourself, the very action of trying to learn gives you power.
Perception is not reality. Most threats are not real threats.
If the problem is 'within' so to is the only solution.
Quote from: Seshatneferw on April 26, 2009, 02:13:44 PM
Ah, but you are a transsexual? ;)
Around the time I came here, I read a lot of stuff along the same lines. All of what Katia quoted, and a lot more, describe under the label of 'transsexual' just the feelings I've had since about primary school. The collective wisdom, right from the Benjamin scale onwards, is that transsexual people will all eventually need to transition. Now, when I came here I wasn't sure about that, but since I had that pesky dysphoria about my physical sex and had never had any desire whatsoever to cross-dress, I let myself be convinced that I too was transsexual and thus would need to transition -- and of course, the sooner it was over the better. The next couple of months were pretty hard.
However, it eventually dawned on me that I really should trust my own feelings, once I had figured out what they were. Around the same time I found the androgyne section here, and saw that there were a few people with roughly similar issues. About a year and a half later I parted company with my therapist, as we both agreed that there was no need for regular sessions -- I was pretty stable with regard to my gender. But on the Benjamin scale the descriptions for 'true transsexual' are still the ones that most closely match how I feel.
Now, I do not want to claim that I'm true transsexual, whatever that means. I'm simply annoyed by the claims that there is a sharp difference between TS and TG, because my experience clearly shows to me that this is not always the case. Whether it's a matter of intensity, or of having an extraordinarily good fantasy life, or something else, is not important; the important part is that not everyone who has a continuous and intense desire for a different set of genitals and does not care about cross-dressing automatically needs to transition. Such claims, and my desire to finally find a gender group I belong to, almost made me mess up large sections of my life -- and if that happened to me that could easily happen to someone else. That is what I really find horrible in all this.
Nfr
Thank you; I agree for the most part with both of your posts. I would write more, but I'm tired. :( Maybe I'll be more motivated tomorrow.
Quote from: Seshatneferw on April 26, 2009, 02:13:44 PM
Ah, but you are a transsexual? ;)
Around the time I came here, I read a lot of stuff along the same lines. All of what Katia quoted, and a lot more, describe under the label of 'transsexual' just the feelings I've had since about primary school. The collective wisdom, right from the Benjamin scale onwards, is that transsexual people will all eventually need to transition. Now, when I came here I wasn't sure about that, but since I had that pesky dysphoria about my physical sex and had never had any desire whatsoever to cross-dress, I let myself be convinced that I too was transsexual and thus would need to transition -- and of course, the sooner it was over the better. The next couple of months were pretty hard.
However, it eventually dawned on me that I really should trust my own feelings, once I had figured out what they were. Around the same time I found the androgyne section here, and saw that there were a few people with roughly similar issues. About a year and a half later I parted company with my therapist, as we both agreed that there was no need for regular sessions -- I was pretty stable with regard to my gender. But on the Benjamin scale the descriptions for 'true transsexual' are still the ones that most closely match how I feel.
Now, I do not want to claim that I'm true transsexual, whatever that means. I'm simply annoyed by the claims that there is a sharp difference between TS and TG, because my experience clearly shows to me that this is not always the case. Whether it's a matter of intensity, or of having an extraordinarily good fantasy life, or something else, is not important; the important part is that not everyone who has a continuous and intense desire for a different set of genitals and does not care about cross-dressing automatically needs to transition. Such claims, and my desire to finally find a gender group I belong to, almost made me mess up large sections of my life -- and if that happened to me that could easily happen to someone else. That is what I really find horrible in all this.
Nfr
I'll agree with that too.... ;)
In the shades of grey between black and white, where can one be certain as to where to place the dividing marker that delineates the shades going towards black and the ones going towards white?
I guess gender identity is just one of those complexities in human nature that places us on a higher level in the order of primates on this planet.
As Nichole said, I know what I am and that is what is most important to me. Too many years wasted chasing my tail already, I am happy with who I am. I have made peace with myself and my only desire is to teach others how to find this peace within in any aspect of coping in life.
Cindy
Sure, the article is a bit over the top, but there are also very real risks to hrt and surgery, and one should be aware of those risks before proceeding.
Regardless of whether someone doesn't go all the way doesn't make them any less trans. Someone who re-transitions isn't any less trans. I know the pain of disconnect of gender that I feel and it's all too real. Maybe I'm non-op TS (which I'm often told doesn't exist), maybe androgyne, maybe TG. I really don't care what it's called. Who I am doesn't change.
Z
Wonderful article... yes, that's sarcasm. It's really a perfect example of how someone can find statistics that fit with their own personal beliefs, and disregard anything that conflicts. Most of the statistics the author cited were outdated and biased, but hey, if it floats yer boat, why not?
The one good thing that might be gleaned from this is that you shouldn't let anyone else tell you to transition, or how to transition. I had a therapist at an ftm group tell me once I'd end up wanting all the surgeries and whatnot that "most ftms get"! Yeah. I have no interest in any sort of bottom surgery, and I know that won't change. It doesn't make me any less trans, or less of a man, nor does the fact that I still love romantic comedies and the color pink.
Know the risks, know yourself. And listen to your own instincts.
SD
I think that anyone today can find many resources to determine the "treatment" for gender dysphoria. The article didn't really change any of my ideas about transitioning. Having recently completed the process, I can say that I experienced many of the negatives mentioned in the warnings. I think that had I been able not to transition, my life may have been less complicated. I look at it like the treatment is only partially effective and that the side effects are serious and dangerous. That doesn't mean that it was really optional for me. My problems are now external i.e. social, employment, family etc. Before they were internal and threatened to destroy me. So I am still depressed and unhappy but for different reasons. Was it worth it? My answer is that so far, I am still here. Untreated, I probably would have done myself in.
Maggie
Matilda QuoteIn my case, not to transition would have meant certain death due to suicide; however, I am quite aware that it isn't so for everyone.
I quite agree, I was one of those who neededto transition at any cost and if I wanted to remain among the living there was no other way to go.
Unfortunately but fortunately as well I had already lost everything dear and close to me many years before I began transitioning. So for me I had nothing to loose and there was only one way out from the bottom of the pit I had dug myself into and that was up or end up horizontal at the bottom of the pit.
How do I feel today? never felt more normal, contents and at peace with myself and for once I feel like a woman with a purpose.
Like I have always said, beware of a person who has nothing to loose. ;D
Cindy
exactly what i said 2 pages ago.
Quote from: Natasha on April 25, 2009, 08:07:35 AM
as you know, i'm one of those radical women that thinks that if a person is in fact transsexual, s/he will transition fully. a transgender person may have more "options' but a ts doesn't.
hmm is it dangerous to transition. Well yes but its also dangerous to walk across a busy intersection too. you just have to calculate the risk/reward.
Hi sis, nice to see you again, still thinking about you. I agree with both you and Natasha.
Cindy
All quotes are from the above mentioned website.
QuoteAlso, high doses of estrogen can often act like male hormones, because of biochemical conversion, and thus actually defeat the purpose of taking them.
Isn't this actually backwards? Testosterone breaks down into estrogen. I'm not aware of it going the other direction.
QuoteCAUTION: Only 27% of male-to-female transsexuals form lasting romantic partnerships. This means that you are 73% likely to go the rest of your life without a lasting romantic partner, male OR female, if you live as a woman.
This is from December 1988. How accurate can this be 20 years later? I'm not saying it's EASY for us, but I wish there were more up to date statistics and that these weren't being passed off as so FACTUAL when it's 21 years out of date.
QuoteIf having a relationship is important to you, I would advise against it. {transition}
...How are you supposed to have a decent relationship that you are decently comfortable with if you aren't comfortable with yourself? I know people have gone on with it for years and gotten married, but usually it seems that the need to be oneself overcomes a lot of people or they just remain miserable.
I can't really argue with the employment discrimination statistics. That's obviously true. But every group has to fight this battle at some point. Women, people of color, people of "deviant" sexual orientations (whose battle isn't even over), and now transgender/transsexual people. Someone has to fight the fight or we get no where as a society. I guess maybe for some people it's just not their fight?
The bits on the only reason to transition is if you are going to kill yourself... I don't necessarily agree. I mean, that's a dead giveaway, but if you're going to live a better, more fulfilled life after transitioning, and you think you should do it after being educated about the risks, then do it.
Also, the bologna about not crossdressing because it's addictive and distracts from more important pursuits. I don't even know what to say. It's just infuriating mostly. I can't articulate what I really feel about that nonsense.
Quote"no man wants to have sex with a transsexual when they can have a real woman"....If you're a lesbian in a man's body, your orientation may change if you transition
What about a man just liking the person you are? Yes there are men who just don't want a "transsexual", but even if I wasn't trans I wouldn't date anyone close-minded.
Also, what about your sexual orientation changing even if you're not lesbian-identified?
QuoteExercise can also help a lot in maintain proper weight levels, whereas a sedentary life often leads postop women to become very overweight. Being overweight can then ruin a woman's chances at feeling well, feeling attractive, and feeling and looking feminine... Many women also habituate into eating as a way to sooth their emotions. In most cases, all it takes to lose weight is to eat less and exercise a bit more, and do that every day. It's just that simple. However, although tha's easy to say, it can be hard to do. In many cases it's as hard as quitting smoking.
Isn't this just LIFE? Seriously. This is life for women in general and men who don't have AWESOME metabolisms.
Anyway. This site does have a lot of good points, but a lot of the concerns are just off and things you need to worry about in every day life. Correct me if I'm wrong. Obviously there are more risks when you're taking pills or shots with hormones in them instead of letting your body do what it was born doing and when you're having one or more surgeries (I know I'll have to have at least two) that aren't "medically necessary" (where or not
I feel like they are saving/improving my life.
I mostly just feel sorry for this woman. I wish she felt she had the strength to transition because I think she'd feel better and freer than she anticipates, but that's her choice to make about her life, not mine. I just fear she's actually under educated about the benefits. But I don't know her personally. Meh. This is all pointless speculation.
Quoted from article:
QuoteThus, if you become a transsexual...........
It's statements like this that bug me about this article. I didn't become anything! I just am!!!
All in all it tends to make me a bit suspicious as to the motives for the entire article. Seems more an attempt at scare tactics than anything useful. Afterall, I'm pretty sure most of us have seen the info given on any of the various sites listed for reference in the article. I know I have. None of it swayed me from trying to reach my goal. I know the risks and accept them as possible, yet not probable.
Dawn
Oh yes, it surely is dangerous to transition.
I've got a bunch of physical scars already that prove this to be true.
Screw the hormones and the surgery, the most dangerous thing to a transitioning person is other people.
Only takes one drunken, rural rugbyhead to clock you, then suddenly it's a competition between him and his mates to be the first one to knock the ->-bleeped-<-'s teeth out.
It's dangerous to transition, but it's dangerous not to transition. When I get afraid of the needles, doctor appointments, and surgeries on the horizon, I always remind myself of the things I'd be missing out on, should I not go through with this: a healthy relationship, a sense of self-confidence, and many other things that might go hand-in-hand with simply feeling as if I am in the right body. There are so many benefits that outweigh the risks, and each individual has to weigh the odds. It is my opinion that a transsexual is far more physiological than their transgender counterparts; where one feels unable to be themselves in their biological gender, the other feels the need to express a gender other than their own. Everyone is always going on about how gender and sex are two separate things, and that transsexuals are, in fact, their chosen gender, but as far as I see it, it is a transsexual's sex that is the most worrying. Gender expression is important, but there is more to it than that. That being said, I don't think all transsexuals will transition, although the majority will at some point. Just think – some people are probably unable to transition due to funds, or family pressures. Highly religious transsexuals will likely hide in shame, some for their entire lives. There are probably a lot of people like this that never go on to live their lives, truly. And knowing this, I also know that physical transitioning is inevitable and necessary.
I also agree with some people who have stated, before me, that it's difficult to have a completely healthy relationship as a person in the wrong gender. Not only do I emotionally feel troubled, but sometimes my difficulties with gender turn into a lot of anger and resentment. I was once with a guy, and although I liked him otherwise, I couldn't stand him because he had what I didn't. Sometimes, I feel like I have a problem no matter what I do – women remind me of what I am, and men remind me of what I'm not. And this resentment will always get in the way of my relationships, no matter what type they are. Sexually, I'm too disgusted by, and aware of my body that it is almost out of the question. It couldn't be a pleasurable experience because I would only feel nauseous, and miserable.
This person sounds to me like a person with too much pent-up religious fervor and belief not only against transsexuals, but anyone of varying gender expression or sexual orientation. Discouraging cross-dressing is just one of those signs.
Hi Adrian hun, you describe the way I felt and thought right to a "T"
I am beginning to think that there aren't that many that could classify as a transsexual for the simple reason it is being blurred with the definition of transgender.
I know I am transsexual, that's it period, no shades of grey, there was never any doubt for me once I knew what I was, no sitting on the fence for me. *I had nothing to loose* that I hadn't already lost.
Cindy