what are your thoughts on double incision chest surgery but WITHOUT the nipple grafts?
People would stare at you if you had no nipples. You'd look like a double breast cancer patient.
Quote from: Radar on May 05, 2009, 06:38:15 AM
People would stare at you if you had no nipples. You'd look like a double breast cancer patient.
i think your statement is a little ignorant... lol for one, the person would look completely male.
two, who knows if people would even be able to place that the person doesnt have nipples.
its like one of those pictures where theres something wrong in the scene and youre supposed to find it, then you finally realize that one of the people is missing a belly button.
I think you would be sorry you did that, especially if your goal is to look natural and male. Yes, males have them too, and if you want to go shirtless, people definitely notice.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
I've seen a picture of a guy who did that. It did look odd. He said he was going to have them tattooed on later, but I never saw a picture of that to see if it looked less odd.
Dennis
I've seen pictures of guys who don't get the nipple grafts and I think it looks a little strange. I've also seen what it looks like after they got nipples tattooed on, and at that point I think it looks fine.
Quote from: Kristi on May 05, 2009, 08:39:28 AM
I think you would be sorry you did that, especially if your goal is to look natural and male. Yes, males have them too, and if you want to go shirtless, people definitely notice.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
I have to agree..
And it would just look like a cancer victim aswell.. with or without the male body.
Jay
I don't understand why anyone would choose this. Not only will your chest stand out of the mix because you'll have scars, but you'll also be sans nipples. I've seen them and they look downright strange.
I wouldn't do it. People would most probably notice sooner than you think.
I can't say how the result would be when the nipples are tattooed on, but keep in mind that normally nipples are 3 dimensional, and thus cast a (small) shadow. Small things like this do register in the human mind.
Are you thinking about having surgery without the nipple grafts? If so, why? (If you don't mind me asking.)
PolarBear
Also, since people seem to be mentioning tattooed nipples a lot and i've got a buddy with them, i'll give you my take.
They look fine from a distance, but once you're within, say, 3-4 feet of him, you can tell that they're tattoos.
People would think that a lack of nipples are strange, but why change your body for the sake of society? If you don't want nipples, go for it. Normal is overrated.
unless the grafts died, i don't get why someone would want to do that. dypshoria of the nipple maybe?
No, I couldn't understand why anyone would choose that either, but if that's what they want then that's their decision I guess! And I'd never criticise them for making that choice - everyone has to do what's right for them, regardless of what others think.
I wonder if there's a good reason why people might actively choose that?
:)
I like my nipples. On T they're a lot more sensitive, and I certainly wouldn't want to lose them. Not only would I never consider a surgery where I would end up with none, I'm also worried that I'll lose nipple sensation when I do have top surgery.
SD
Quote from: Sebastien on May 05, 2009, 07:01:45 PM
I like my nipples. On T they're a lot more sensitive, and I certainly wouldn't want to lose them. Not only would I never consider a surgery where I would end up with none, I'm also worried that I'll lose nipple sensation when I do have top surgery.
SD
Hey Bas. You could do the pedicle technique that keeps your nips intact. there's this one doc i was thinking about going to Dr. R-something. But my tits weren't small enough for it to work.
FYI, Sebastian, I had nipple grafts and have retained about 85% of sensation in my nipples. It took a little while to come back (3 mo or so), but it's still there.
Quote from: Mister on May 05, 2009, 08:26:06 PM
FYI, Sebastian, I had nipple grafts and have retained about 85% of sensation in my nipples. It took a little while to come back (3 mo or so), but it's still there.
wow. is that common?
Quote from: Nero on May 05, 2009, 08:28:59 PM
wow. is that common?
It's common to retain some sensation. How much depends on health of the patient, health of the graft and luck.
cool. i thought grafts meant no sensation. so it takes 3 months till you know?
Quote from: Nero on May 05, 2009, 09:08:53 PM
cool. i thought grafts meant no sensation. so it takes 3 months till you know?
Not really... When he was taking my sutures out I felt it. I felt it when he was applying ointment to them. I had sensation, I just didn't know how much.
Quote from: Josh on May 05, 2009, 05:37:38 AM
what are your thoughts on double incision chest surgery but WITHOUT the nipple grafts?
I've done a lot of research and I'm thinkin this is the surgery I want to go with. I don't get much sensation out of them to begin with and they'd probably look messed up after surgery. Personally I think grafts tend to get oddly placed and the nipples can look kinda weird. What I'd like to do is get the surgery and then after it heals have nipples tattooed.
I've seen pictures of this procedure and in my opinion it looks better than nipple grafts. But that's just an opinion. :P
Quote from: PolarBear on May 05, 2009, 01:52:56 PM
Are you thinking about having surgery without the nipple grafts? If so, why? (If you don't mind me asking.)
i infact am thinking of having it done without the grafts.
my reasons are:
hard to heal
could be misplaced/misshapen
possible nipple death
possibly cheaper
less possible complications
and ofcourse my most controversial reason...
body modification.
i have a supreme fascination with body modding. i think that it would be awesome to just not have nipples. lol
even if i change my mind later in life, i can have them surgicallly rebuilt and tattooed later.
hard to heal- i've had skinned elbows that took longer to heal. if you are a smoker, your risk is higher since microcirculation is necessary to heal grafted tissue.
could be misplaced/misshapen- only if your surgeon isn't experienced. mine look like plain old, run-of-the-mill nipples.
possible nipple death- i asked brownstein about this. he said he's had one graft not take out of thousands.
possibly cheaper- by... $100? $200? preparing and placing the grafts only takes a couple of minutes.
less possible complications- again, these grafts are extremely easy to heal if you're healthy.
\
Some nontrans people get them removed for cosmetic reasons, and for you it is quite convenient, since you'd have to be getting surgery anyway.
if i had a normal biomale chest or was getting keyhole, i wouldnt consider this.
buuuuut... for me, its just too good a chance to pass up i think.
too good a chance? of what?
the one rejected nipple i mentioned (out of thousands) was a DI, as was the surgery that I and most other FTMs have had... and there are not countless stories of lost nipples.
Also, keep in mind, that not every surgeon is necessarily going to be a-ok with giving you a nipple free chest. In any surgery (and especially this type of surgery) a surgeons results become their reputation. A particular surgeon might think it's not in their best interest to perform a surgery that isn't to their aesthetic liking.
Quote from: Mister on May 06, 2009, 07:25:49 PM
hard to heal- i've had skinned elbows that took longer to heal. if you are a smoker, your risk is higher since microcirculation is necessary to heal grafted tissue.
could be misplaced/misshapen- only if your surgeon isn't experienced. mine look like plain old, run-of-the-mill nipples.
possible nipple death- i asked brownstein about this. he said he's had one graft not take out of thousands.
possibly cheaper- by... $100? $200? preparing and placing the grafts only takes a couple of minutes.
less possible complications- again, these grafts are extremely easy to heal if you're healthy.
\
well mister, it seems that youre superman when it comes to everything. youre freaking superman arent you? the perfect picture of health.
my boob skin is freaking shot. stretched with no elasticity. not the healthiest bit of skin for sure.
and congrats. you could freaking afford brownstien. well im 18 with no credit. im going to a surgeon here in the midwest. hes not as widely known as say, brownstein or fischer, for good reason. hes not as experienced.
so yes... BOO ->-bleeped-<-ing HOO for me. i dont have the best of chances.
id rather have no tits than lopsided misshapen scarred disks of pink, frankensteined to my chest.
am I superman? No, i've had surgery. that's it. you solicited opinions, i gave mine.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.beconmedical.com%2Fimages%2Freforma_prod_pg.jpg&hash=2f6dced0fa9070c4f5f0f678c5ea9481a7cbc628)
Quote from: Mr. Fox on May 05, 2009, 02:02:16 PM
People would think that a lack of nipples are strange, but why change your body for the sake of society? If you don't want nipples, go for it. Normal is overrated.
doh. I meant I agree with this statement.
but yes. think long and hard about it before you do anything definite.
Quote from: Mister on May 06, 2009, 07:25:49 PM
hard to heal- i've had skinned elbows that took longer to heal. if you are a smoker, your risk is higher since microcirculation is necessary to heal grafted tissue.
could be misplaced/misshapen- only if your surgeon isn't experienced. mine look like plain old, run-of-the-mill nipples.
possible nipple death- i asked brownstein about this. he said he's had one graft not take out of thousands.
possibly cheaper- by... $100? $200? preparing and placing the grafts only takes a couple of minutes.
less possible complications- again, these grafts are extremely easy to heal if you're healthy.
\
I'm a long time smoker and quit some for surgery, but not as much as recommended. My nipples healed fine. I'm also older than most guys who have chest surgery. The only person who's ever noticed that they were grafted was an acupuncturist and I'd already told him (about my DI scars) that I'd had gynecomastia surgery because of a hormone problem. He didn't notice until the third session then he said "wow, must've been a hell of a hormone problem, you had surgery there too".
If you want to do it because you like the way it looks, fine. But don't think it's a huge extra to the surgery, cost-wise or recovery-wise, cause it isn't.
Dennis
Quote from: Dennis on May 07, 2009, 12:29:02 AM
If you want to do it because you like the way it looks, fine. But don't think it's a huge extra to the surgery, cost-wise or recovery-wise, cause it isn't.
Dennis
I totally agree. I didn't stop smoking before the surgery or after I had a couple in the afternoon after my surgery. Yes it was my risk to take I took it. It didn't affect my healing process my surgeon said my healing was excellent and just above normal so.. didn't harm at all. Not that I recommened it of course.
Jay
Your choice, I think some of the stick on nipples look really good and doesn't compromise anything.
You are the important one in this discussion, If you don't want, cannot afford or it's just plain not the look you want, go for it. If someone stares either M or F you've got a great chat up intro :laugh:
Love and Hugs and great success
Cindy James
Quote from: Josh on May 06, 2009, 07:39:57 PM
well mister, it seems that youre superman when it comes to everything. youre freaking superman arent you? the perfect picture of health.
my boob skin is freaking shot. stretched with no elasticity. not the healthiest bit of skin for sure.
and congrats. you could freaking afford brownstien. well im 18 with no credit. im going to a surgeon here in the midwest. hes not as widely known as say, brownstein or fischer, for good reason. hes not as experienced.
so yes... BOO ->-bleeped-<-ing HOO for me. i dont have the best of chances.
id rather have no tits than lopsided misshapen scarred disks of pink, frankensteined to my chest.
Play nice Josh, wouldn't want to delete the thread. Mister was giving his view, which you asked for.
Jay
i just did some additional research at the advice of my BF and discovered another reason to not do the grafts...
as it is, i have almost NO sensation in my nipples or bottom half of my breasticles, so if i decide that i do want nipples later, i can have them recreate the nipples using a graft from a different part of my body. i can pick a part that has good sensation. LOL
I had no sensation either, so it didn't matter to me whether I had any in the new nipples. You're not going to gain sensation by connecting a sensitive body part there. The nerves won't just hook up.
Dennis
Quote from: Dennis on May 07, 2009, 09:01:05 AM
You're not going to gain sensation by connecting a sensitive body part there. The nerves won't just hook up.
Dennis
how do phalloplasties work?
Quote from: Josh on May 07, 2009, 09:03:43 AM
how do phalloplasties work?
phalloplasties have very little (if any) sensation. If your surgeon buries your penis in the new one, you have a better chance of having sensation, but it is usually only on the bottom of the shaft near your pelvis.
Quote from: Mister on May 07, 2009, 10:09:22 AM
phalloplasties have very little (if any) sensation. If your surgeon buries your penis in the new one, you have a better chance of having sensation, but it is usually only on the bottom of the shaft near your pelvis.
I think the point Josh was trying to make is that often surgeons try to pick as sensitive of a part of the body as possible (i.e. the forearm) for phalloplasty to give as much sensation as possible (though it won't be anything close to a biomale's penis).
Quote from: Kayden on May 07, 2009, 10:42:07 AM
I think the point Josh was trying to make is that often surgeons try to pick as sensitive of a part of the body as possible (i.e. the forearm) for phalloplasty to give as much sensation as possible (though it won't be anything close to a biomale's penis).
which makes sense... but forearm skin is not the same as the tissue nipples are made out of. reconstructing nipples out of skin when you've tossed away a perfectly good pair seems like nothing but unnecessary surgery with less than ideal results.
Quote from: Mister on May 07, 2009, 10:49:08 AM
which makes sense... but forearm skin is not the same as the tissue nipples are made out of. reconstructing nipples out of skin when you've tossed away a perfectly good pair seems like nothing but unnecessary surgery with less than ideal results.
If you're talking about looks, probably. If you're talking about sensation, no.
Quote from: Kayden on May 07, 2009, 11:04:23 AM
If you're talking about looks, probably. If you're talking about sensation, no.
I have skin on my forearms and grafted nipples on my chest. My nipples are absolutely more sensitive.
I've talked to him about this. He has absolutely no erotic sensation in his nipples whatsoever right now. He actually has less sensation there than other non-sexual parts of his body, currently.
Quote from: Josh on May 07, 2009, 04:44:18 AM
as it is, i have almost NO sensation in my nipples or bottom half of my breasticles...
Hey Josh,
thanks for explaining your point of view. I don't really understand that you might prefer the look of a chest without nipples better, but that's okay. To each their own, right? :)
Quote from: Josh on May 07, 2009, 09:03:43 AM
how do phalloplasties work?
They actually hook nerves up. They don't do that for nipple grafts though.
Dennis
Quote from: Mister on May 07, 2009, 10:49:08 AM
...reconstructing nipples out of skin when you've tossed away a perfectly good pair seems like nothing but unnecessary surgery with less than ideal results.
I DONT HAVE A PERFECTLY GOOD PAIR.
my nipples have very little sensation.
I'm.. a little confused, though. If one of your worries about this is winding up with 'frankenstein nipples,' then wouldn't reconstructed nipples be worse than the old ones?
Just a thought. I don't have any comment on the sensitivity issue. And, of course, body modification is cool. ;)
Quote from: Josh on May 07, 2009, 09:54:50 PM
my nipples have very little sensation.
I had sensation before surgery now I have none, my nipples are fine looking though and look like normal also.
Its down to you Josh, if you think it looks cool then go for it. If you regret it later on then you can always get them tattoo'd on.
Jay
thats what im saying. i dont want to have them grafted. lol
the defense about rebuilding the nipples was for the "what if" factor later in life. if i regretted it.
I wouldn't say it's for the what if factor.
hypothetically, if I was thinking about this option for myself, i'd go with grafts if I had sensation or not. Why? Because with DI, I'm going to have unavoidable scarring. As a trans person, I'm going to have incongruities with cisgendered people. So why make my chest stand out any more than it has to?
But, then again, I'm someone who thinks being TS is a medical condition, not a means of cultural identification.
If it were easy to do and free and non painful, i think i'd remove my nipples - declutter a bit.
pica, youre silly. :P
Quote from: Pica Pica on May 08, 2009, 01:13:29 PM
...i'd remove my nipples - declutter a bit.
Hah. Lawl.
here's a pic of one guy who did this:
http://www.thetransitionalmale.com/bubak (http://www.thetransitionalmale.com/bubak)
not as strange as i would have thought.
yeah. it just looks like he had breast cancer or something.
i still dont see how it looks like he had breast cancer. on a bio male, there wouldnt be enough skin to cut out and pull down to have the nipples completely gone. it just doesnt make sense.
because that's the first thing that comes to mind when someone has no nipples. to me anyway. ymmv.
The reason I think it looks like he had breast cancer is because he has no nipples and when you have breast cancer they remove your nipples. (regardless if you are a man or women). So seeing a guy with chest scars and no nipple cancer is what would come to my mind. Being a bit older and having friends who have had breast cancer I may look at it differently than others but that is what I would see. Does not make me think man or women just cancer patient, no sex assigned to it.
In the end Josh all that matters is what you think so go with what you want and what makes sense to you.
Myles
Quote from: Nero on May 10, 2009, 06:12:14 PM
because that's the first thing that comes to mind when someone has no nipples. to me anyway. ymmv.
Me too. My mother had breast cancer and had to have her complete breast and nipple removed. They remove the nipples if cancer is found in the milk glands (which guys have too). She had a nipple tattooed on her not to long ago. She's lives far away so I have no idea how it came out.
Gu
Quote from: Josh on May 10, 2009, 05:59:42 PM
i still dont see how it looks like he had breast cancer. on a bio male, there wouldnt be enough skin to cut out and pull down to have the nipples completely gone. it just doesnt make sense.
Bio Males can get breast cancer to. I agree with Nero thats what I would think it was aswell.
Jay
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhealthhabits.files.wordpress.com%2F2008%2F12%2Fken-doll-naked.jpg&hash=c378236a154b8949bf2855a57da74d348d64d886)
Awesome :laugh:
Does he come as a blow up :-* :laugh: :laugh:
Cindy
Quote from: CindyJames on May 11, 2009, 04:43:36 AM
Awesome :laugh:
Does he come as a blow up :-* :laugh: :laugh:
Cindy
i'll be the real deal. and you can blow me if you want. jk ofcourse. >_>