Julie and I went to the bank yesterday to open up a business account. Two people were working with us. The woman I am working with asks me to type in my SS# and when the screen pops up with the information for my number, there in big bold letters is my current name AND MY OLD NAME!!! She went to the next screen pretty quickly so I wasn't completely sure. So when it was Julie's turn and she typed in her SS#, sure enough, there it was for her too, her present and former names.
There was no question to the bank employees we both had male pasts all thanks to the SSA. They opened the doors to prejudice and discrimination. Thankfully the bank employees were totally polite and respectful but had this been an employment opportunity, what then? And since the bank is right across the street from our business, the bank employees could easily gossip to the community members and affect our business. If people suspect, that's one thing, but when they know it's quite another.
I was living with the comfort my old name had been changed and would never again show up on any records when using my SS# but I now know that isn't the case. I wonder how many other databases are out there just waiting to out us? >:(
Julie
Lots, including I would guess a lot of credit reporting companies, government records, anywhere you changed it, I'm sure there is a notation of when it was changed and from what. Just bookeeping details.
Data mining (http://www.lexisnexis.com/) is a big business especially after 9/11. However, an automated SSA record check via SSNVS doesn't really say much (http://www.ssa.gov/employer/ssnvshandbk/SSNresults.htm)
Is there an easy and accurate way for a person to check his or her own SSA record and find out whether such information is lurking around to jump out unexpectedly? I mean, if you could check and find out in advance that your old name will show up, then maybe you could take steps to suppress or correct that information so that this doesn't happen again.
Come to think of it, I changed my legal name years ago, and I have no idea what my SSA record shows these days. I guess I should ask when I go to change my gender marker. But will I get a straight answer?
You can get some info changed on SSA records, but like any bureaucracy - and they are one of the biggest in the US, they note all changes (as they should, there is a lot of money involved, so potential for fraud is great) and getting them to suppress anything that they do on each and every form.
yep, i figured it would be in bold print, here in Ohio at least in my neck of the woods, it's excellent grounds for legal discriminiation. the government wants to make sure we are not terrorists this badly. not everyone will be able to keep their composure like this woman did. around here they ask questions till they get the answers they want.
Banks generally pull info from the various credit agencies rather than from the SSA. Chances are that your info with the SSA is fine, it is the credit agencies that are the problem. Also, I suspect that it is difficult, if not impossible, to remove all traces of your history at this point in time. As someone above said, data mining is big business.
To me, this is just another part of being trans in the 21st century. It's still frustrating.
if, by some amazing acid trip, you think that by changing your genatalia is somehow going to get you off your past credit record, your dumber than you look. And why, WHY, should those people NOT care about who you were before? Just because you were X before, and now are a Y, I don't see where it makes you any more, or less, likely to pay on time.
Really.
Tekla as usual the voice of reason.
I would also point out that the disclaimer on Government related mail probably apllies here. "Official Mail Penalty for Private Use..."
The SSA, credit reporting co., etc are able to "mine" our past, its the manner or purpose that said info is used for that the law addresses.
Quote from: tekla on May 05, 2009, 09:08:21 PM
if, by some amazing acid trip, you think that by changing your genatalia is somehow going to get you off your past credit record, your dumber than you look. And why, WHY, should those people NOT care about who you were before? Just because you were X before, and now are a Y, I don't see where it makes you any more, or less, likely to pay on time.
Really.
What are you talking about? "Get you off your past credit record"? "Who you were before"? HUH? You act as if changing your name with the SSA is an attempt to create a fake identity (and anyone with half a brain would change their SS#). This isn't about credit reporting and paying off bills, it's about opening up a bank account where they get my money and give it back when I ask. I'm the one who should be doing a credit report on them.
Besides, there was no credit report details when the screen came up with my former and present names, just the names (because they didn't need a credit report). And the SS#, not your name, is how they track your credit and almost everything else. WHY would anyone care about the name when they have all your information with your SS#? Think before you share your 'wisdom'.
Julie
Quote from: tekla on May 05, 2009, 09:08:21 PM
if, by some amazing acid trip, you think that by changing your genatalia is somehow going to get you off your past credit record, your dumber than you look. And why, WHY, should those people NOT care about who you were before? Just because you were X before, and now are a Y, I don't see where it makes you any more, or less, likely to pay on time.
Really.
All the more reason why a name shouldn't be relevant, just credit history.
I love Taco Cat
But seriously, after you've made so much effort to be who you are now and made the proper legal changes as part of that. Does the gov't need to step on you and remind you and everyone else who you once were? I could understand if someone was a criminal of sorts. But what is the point of embarrassing an up standing trans person? Maybe business as usual needs to change a bit more and be considerate of actual people who don't like to be embarrassed any more than anyone else :P
In our post 9/11 world there is greater oversight of the banking industry. Do I like that on a personal privacy basis? No.
Do I like the fact that close to 3000 Americans haven't been horrificly killed in one day, on American soil? Yes.
I have noticed that when I present my ID at the bank and other places, I have to be sure and wear a zipped up jacket and no make up. Otherwise, the person asking for my info. will stare at my breasts and totally scrutinize me. I haven't changed my name yet. When I'm waiting in line, they often say "I'm open over here ma'am" and wave me over. Then the ID and info. thing comes up. Except for the folks who recognize me now. They just wave me over
Now, I don't care how many times you've changed your gender. I doubt the lenders, or the people who are going to put money in your business do either. (Assuming, they are smart). But I damn sure care about your record of handling money, how you get loans, how you pay them back, what money you owe, and to who. Damn skippy I do.
I don't care about what names you did it under, but I have a right to know what names you did it under, particularly for a business account.
removed part of post
My, My....Is someone in a mood. I think we're talking about people with good credit that have kept their bills up. The fact that they don't like to be embarrassed in public seems to be the issue :P
OK, I'll go real slow here.
A business account, in a bank, is a public deal. It gives you some tax advantages (huge if you work it right).
If you want a stealth life. Don't try to do very public stuff.
Avoiding the public may be good to a degree. But if you are working on improving a situation for yourself and others, sometimes you have to go out and do things that require interaction with others among the public just to get things done. If you hide away and avoid it all, how much will you get done?
Well, nothing. So you can't hide. That's exactly where you have to be out and proud as it were. When it comes to money, there are no secrets in the USA.
Maybe I'm looking after the bank employee's sanity. Looking at my ID and staring at my boobs seems to make them dizzy. I want them to be able to concentrate on the business at hand :laugh:
I think that the Social Security Administration database is different than credit records.
I changed everything before I ever developed any credit. I am in a business where I can get all kinds of info on people. I've looked for info on myself using those services, and checked my credit reports too. There is nothing there to cause me any problems. I'm fortunate in that one particular way.
But I went to the Social Security Offfice a couple of years ago and the lady let me see what came up on the screen. There it was. Names, dates, everything. And I changed my info nearly 20 years ago.
I don't know why a bank would have or need a direct feed into the Social Security Administration database, but that is what it sounds like they had.
Most, perhaps all, employers don't get to have that access. They just send in the form you fill out and get a "no match" letter if the reported name or gender or other info does not match the current records. But they are not told in the letter why the "no match" occurred, and the employee has a couple of months to fix it. Recent attempts to force employers to fire employees who failed to correct it within 60 days were struck down in court, last I heard. The Social Security Administration did not send "no match" letters if only the gender did not match until after 9/11. The Bush administration cahged the software. Perhaps the O'bama Administration will change it back?
That does not mean that employers cannot find out information about you, especially if you sign forms empowering them to perform a background check.
We need laws to protect us from this problem. For example, if we have good credit and criminal history, or rehabilitated histories, etc., then we ought to be able to apply for a new social security number, and get a new credit record that is blank, but has a score matching the old credit, and can't be told apart from regular credit reports by anyone checking our credit. I think those laws will come eventually, but probably not in my lifetime.
I have to agree with tekla. I really not sure what all the fuss is about. I think that folks are being a little naive if they think that they will be able to go through life in complete stealth. Governments keep records on everyone and I don't see where there is a problem when the government records name changes on "Everyone" not just those with a T (Whatever) back ground. If you think the government is bad, take a look at your medical records and medical history.
-={LR}=-
a quick Google search on "new social security number" gives some interesting facts- basically it's difficult to get a new number but it can be done. Even then, the new number is linked to your old one. From what I can tell, you can get as new number only in a few cases, one of them being if someone is actively using your number for fraudulent purposes (identity theft) and you have to have proof from a credit bureau that it is "actively".
Oh well. ::)
It looks basically like our SSN is something we're stuck with, like the mark of the beast or something.... :-\
Quote from: tekla on May 06, 2009, 01:27:45 AM
If you want a stealth life. Don't try to do very public stuff.
So we should all go into hiding, right? Don't apply for a job. Don't start your own business. Don't open a savings account. Don't do anything that someone can track. Well, you may think that's a viable option but I and many of my trans friends think that advice reeks of supporting discrimination and prejudice.
The SSA changed my name as I requested. It was all perfectly legal. I have a great credit history, which anyone who wants to verify that can do so with my SS#, not my former or present name. My former name is just that and no longer exists as my legal name. Therefore it should no longer turn up when my SS# is typed into a computer. That's the way it should be.
Saying any of us should not do public things is just the same as encouraging us to disappear, exactly what the religious right and other hate mongers want us to do. Instead of taking the attitude "what did you expect", the attitude should be one of outrage at the government's participation in possibly creating an environment that could lead to prejudice, discrimination or worse.
It's no secret trans people are some of the most discriminated against people in the world. So why should anyone knowingly allow outing information to remain in the data bases that are used for employment or opening a savings account (among other things)?
Yes, I know how the world works but is that any reason to defend our government outing us? I don't think so.
Julie
More or less pretty much the point I was trying to get across. Past financial history should be given by your current legal name. A person's prior name should only be given if they are a criminal. I.E. Aka gangster sex offender
If your not in hiding, you can't be outed. Your past financial history is just that, your past financial history. If it was done under another name, then it was done under another name.
I have a friend who has a patent under her prior name, she had to set up a LLC to route the checks, which still come in that name, because its the name on the patent. I asked her once if it bothered her, and it didn't as long as the checks keep on coming and clear the bank.
I also know several academic types who have to use both, as their dissertations - which are public documents - are published under that name. They just explain that that was then, this is now.