Hi Girls,
My name is Deborah McCullough and I am a Gender Counsellor and Project manager and founder of 'Gender Essence Support Services' based in Northern Ireland. Apart from this role I also play a very significant role within the transgender communities in which I have a great desire and passion to help!
I recently posted a blog that I would very much like to share with you and I would be very grateful for your feedback on this issue.
The blog is:
I was at a Transgender training course today in Belfast to seek further insight to aid me in my work as a 'Gender Counsellor'.
It was delivered by a 'Dr' who has an immense amount of insight and experience (mainly within the transsexual field).
When he was explaining the difference between transsexualism and transvestism he had stated the difference being, Transsexuals don't have a choice in who they are, whereas ->-bleeped-<-s do (cross-dressers being referred to as the same thing). Also it is only used for sexual pleasure, with all.
Mmmmmm let me clarify that for you....'->-bleeped-<-s choose to be ->-bleeped-<-s' meaning that you can give it up at any time.
Through my learning with various clients I firmly believe this is not the case. It is not a choice, it is a long term need.
I told him at lunch time that I didn't agree with what he had said. "My learning has been that Transvestism is 'a need, not a choice' and that his views only add to the negative stigma that trans people already have to face. Not all ->-bleeped-<-s are exactly the same, they take many forms and the time frame when each person feels the need to dress will vary. There are also different gains surrounding the desire depending on the person... to express the feminine side, to feel complete, to feel whole, to feel pleasure, inner calm, to de-stress, to cope with everyday life, sexual gratification, to fulfill an inner yearning (and / or) etc etc. Generally the desire to dress will come in waves.
It is not something that can be cured by therapy but over time it can be embraced and accepted".
When we went back into class he was more than happy for me to share my personal learning and to correct his black and white error.
He is open to further learning of the subject and appologised for his ignorance and lack of understanding towards Transvestism. He has asked me to forward him further info on my learning as a counsellor.
I have searched a number of sites and I have yet to find something concrete from a 'professional trans organisation' that states my learning and understanding which has been gained from working with clients who feel endless negative emotions surrounding their desire to dress.
I would be grateful for some 'constructive feedback'. Thoughts, personal opinions / experiences, life stories, links etc. I will then forward all the views onto him (without names).
If you don't want to put it on the forums feel free to forward it to my Chix page.
I would be grateful for any insight you would like to share.
I feel it is important to 'set the record straight' in whatever form that comes in and what better way to do it than first hand views from those who live the truth....
Am I correct in what I say?
Has anyone ever 'truely' gave it up?
If you feel the urge to dress can you simply 'choose' to pass....forever?
Personally to you, is it a choice?
I look forward to hearing your views ;-)
Hugs,
Deborahx
I have received numerious replies from one end of the spectrum to the other.
One of the many many replies that I received that has stuck in my mind read;
I could choose not to dress. But that choice would result in depression, anxiety, and a general lack of a sense of personal fulfillment. For eight years I DID choose not to dress. And I hated it. It felt as though I'd lost a limb. I guess that the point that I'm trying to make is that a crap choice is still a choice of sorts .......
I replied.....
So it is still a 'need' people 'choose' not to dress with consequences, i get ya but even in your 8 years out you still had the desires, yearnings and inner conflict to dress. You were still a ->-bleeped-<-. People cant 'choose' to make those yearnings go away, regardless of there frequency.
Even though you wernt carrying out the 'act' you still had the thoughts and feelings that transvestism comes with.
So is transvestism a 'choice' or a 'need'?
I would be ever so grateful for your thoughts.....
Hugs,
Deborahx
God, how I wish this was a choice. To be able to turn it off. I have tried so hard for 18 years to be "normal". This has just led to depression, resentment, fear of being found out, having to watch everything that I say and do, and just overall being miserable. My wife knew and has now left me with the kids so I still can't even express myself at home. I guess being miserable will continue. I don't know how much longer I can possible keep up the charade. I partially dress on occasion when the kids go to bed but the fear and the stress never subside. It is definitely not a choice because nobody in their right mind would ever make it. I don't know if this helps but believe me it is the way so many peoples lives are.
I can suppress it for maybe up to 4 months, but then it'd hit me again harder than ever. I'd just convince myself it's all over and then, bam, depression again.... for the past 4 years... *sigh*
It seems strange to me that this so called expert doctor had the views they had. But it was great that they were open to your disagreement.
I think you are correct.
I'm not a transsexual or a ->-bleeped-<- or a cross-dresser. But I am transgendered, I don't identify as being male or female but reject my birth sex, I can't stand being identified as such.
Long before I knew any of the words I knew that I felt wrong as a boy. I could not fathom why eveyone was following these 'gender rules', they still don't make much sense to me. I had good role models, my siblings turned out 'normal', there was no reason for it. It is just something that is. I don't get any particular sexual rush out of it (certainly when you feel good about yourself you also feel sexually much more confident. It is hard to feel sexual when you feel that you are revolting). My 'reward' for expressing myself is I feel comfortable and normal, sometimes it was exciting to be more like my inner self externally. What a rush, kind of like getting out chains you lived in for years. Of course, now that I live more or less as myself it is no longer a rush, it just is and going back is a world of pain.
I don't choose to be me anymore than anyone has. Even if I dressed as a boy I would still be who I am. The need is in needing to express who I am, otherwise I live in misery.
Another point of view to think about is why would anyone choose it? You would have to be out of your mind or be doing it for a very specific purpose (like Huckleberry fin). All you will get is negative things - you become a target for hate, a target for physical violence and verbal abuse, loss of relationships, rejection by family members, constantly assaulted by negative messages in the media, financial costs of extra wardrobe, burden of secrecy.. it just does not add up. The truth is the world can be pretty horrid to people like us, we are even horrid to eachother sometimes. If it were a choice, it is not a very attractive one.
Hi there,
I have read extensively on the subjec, well a) because i am transgender and b) I wanted to find out why I felt the way I did. here is my cents/pennies worth.
Transvestism grows out of puberty and the sexual desires. It is a form of fetish that stimulates sexual arousal. It is associated with the desire to dress in the opposite sex that, that one was born with because of the sexual arousal associated with the cross dressing. However true ->-bleeped-<-s don't feel that their is anything wrong with their bodies and hence want to change it, or feel they have been born in the wrong body.
transsexuals (I am) on the other hand feel that something is wrong usually from an early age that they are a girl despite all physical observations stating the opposite. The person who is a true transsexual has no choice over this and was born probably with the opposite brain configuration to that of their physical gender. For the Transsexual it is about gender, what gender they are and hence a need for physical change to match that of the psychological sex, etc. There is no sexual arousal from this.
In saying that there have been case studies where a person who has had ->-bleeped-<- desires move over time into the transsexual banding and as such feels they would only be truly happy living as the opposite gender.
So in saying all this I also believe that the ->-bleeped-<- does not have a choice and is compelled to cross dress. The reasons for this are different however than that of the person who is transsexual.
It is unhelpful to link the two together. I find it distasteful to be thought of as a ->-bleeped-<-, I am transgender. Gender dysphoria the medical term literally means gender unhappiness from the greek dyshoria meaning unhappiness. So its about gender not sexual arousal for those of us who are transgender.
I am sorry if this may upset some on here, I don't intend to upset anyone.
Please feel free to PM me if you want to debs and we can email each other for more info. I live in the UK
It is not a choice - the need comes and goes.
At the moment my need is just not there so I do not cross dress. I do however expect it to return some day.
I plan to update my story found at my wordpress site (http://alicelloyd.wordpress.com/) to tell why I have stopped HRT and have gone back to being a cross dresser.
Alice
I personally do not dress merely for sexual arousal. I actually want to be feminine to be a complete person. Yes it is a choice and I choose to. If I ignore that part of me I'll become one miserable "B....".
I've had to think about this for a while before responding.
Even if transvestism is only about sexual excitement, I would not say it's a choice. There was a time when I did cross-dress for sexual fetish reasons. It could be argued that I chose to dress in that manner, but I didn't choose to be sexually excited by the clothing. Likewise, I don't choose whom I find sexually attractive.
Cross-dressing no longer sexually excites me. It could still be argued that I choose to cross-dress from time to time. But, I did not choose androgyne as my gender identity. I might have chosen the label "androgyne" to describe my gender identity, but the label is not the identity in and of itself.
I would not say that cross-dressing for me is a "need." That word just doesn't seem quite right for me. For me, cross-dressing just seems natural. It just seems the proper thing to do for me.
It's not a need, and it's not a choice. But, I don't really know the best way to describe it.
Of course, sex is the ultimate cause of transvestism or crossdressing, IMHO. I think my desire to crossdress can be comparable to appetite. If necessarily, I can starve for 3 days, but still can survive. More than that, I would be very weak, even to die. If I do not crossdress for more than 1 month, I would still survive, but appetite and transvestism are the same in that they are a long term need, as you exactly described. Apparel is not a choice of life and death, but appetite is. Sex is not a choice of life and death, but still it is very important in our culture, mind and everyday life (look at the first chapter of the New Testament).
Sex is an interesting and sometimes intriguing thing. When people are sick or aged, they no longer feel sexual appetite. In my case, when my body is in unhealthy condition, my desire to crossdress and interest in fashion greatly diminishes (of course, other activities tend to decrease too such as research and playing outdoors with my kids).
Simply, crossdressing is beneficial to my physical and psychological health. I guess it is between hobby and destiny. Hobby is mostly a choice, but sometimes can be a need.
Barbie~~
Many thanks for your replies, it is much appreciated and I have found it to be fantastic learning.
I guess the over-riding rule is 'one size dosn't fit all'!! And neither it should! Labels can be a painful thing when we dont exactly fit into what society expects. The 'Definition' of a ->-bleeped-<- as I see it should be questioned.
I look forward to further replies.
I find this site to be great learning to aid me within my work as a Gender Therapist.
I will be sticking around ;-)
Hugs,
Deborah
Quote from: stardust on May 11, 2009, 04:07:10 AM
Hi there,
I have read extensively on the subjec, well a) because i am transgender and b) I wanted to find out why I felt the way I did. here is my cents/pennies worth.
Have you ever been part of support group where real people share their real experience? Their cents/pennies might be worth a few Euros/Dollars/Pounds
QuoteTransvestism grows out of puberty and the sexual desires. It is a form of fetish that stimulates sexual arousal. It is associated with the desire to dress in the opposite sex that, that one was born with because of the sexual arousal associated with the cross dressing. However true ->-bleeped-<-s don't feel that their is anything wrong with their bodies and hence want to change it, or feel they have been born in the wrong body.
Where did you read such rubbish? From the age of 3 (unless I had a very early puberty) I knew witch kind of clothes I wanted. It had nothing to do with sexual arousal but just about feeling right, being free, being me. Talking to other CDs/TVs I also know that I am not the only one with such early memories.
Quotetranssexuals (I am) on the other hand feel that something is wrong usually from an early age that they are a girl despite all physical observations stating the opposite. The person who is a true transsexual has no choice over this and was born probably with the opposite brain configuration to that of their physical gender. For the Transsexual it is about gender, what gender they are and hence a need for physical change to match that of the psychological sex, etc. There is no sexual arousal from this.
So are you saying that Tranvestism or Crossdressing has nothing to do with gender, but only with sex and fetish?
QuoteIn saying that there have been case studies where a person who has had ->-bleeped-<- desires move over time into the transsexual banding and as such feels they would only be truly happy living as the opposite gender.
So the boundaries are not as clear as you would wish them to be. A bit confusing isn't it?
QuoteSo in saying all this I also believe that the ->-bleeped-<- does not have a choice and is compelled to cross dress. The reasons for this are different however than that of the person who is transsexual.
At last a bit of reason!
QuoteIt is unhelpful to link the two together. I find it distasteful to be thought of as a ->-bleeped-<-, I am transgender. Gender dysphoria the medical term literally means gender unhappiness from the greek dyshoria meaning unhappiness. So its about gender not sexual arousal for those of us who are transgender.
But of course it is so much more helpful to deny and even find distatful that CDism/TVism has anything to do with gender.
QuoteI am sorry if this may upset some on here, I don't intend to upset anyone.
So you can stand on judgement (using adjectives such as distateful) without having to take any responsibility for your confusion and the results of your spreading of erronous information.
QuotePlease feel free to PM me if you want to debs and we can email each other for more info. I live in the UK
With due respect, and luckily, as seen in Deborahx's testimony the level of debate about the different aspects of the specrum of TGism in the UK and this Island is much better informed that what you seem so far to have distillated from it.
Hope, Light, Love and Respect (for your quest)
Maebh
I personally feel that it is a choice, and that it is a sexually/fetish based choice.
-={LR}=-
Maebh,
Transvestism is by very definition sexual in nature hence its complete title of transvestic fetishism.
DSM IV Criteria:
A. Over a period of at least 6 months, in a heterosexual male, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving cross-dressing.
B. The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
Now if this doesn't fit you, then it doesn't. You aren't (clinically at least) a ->-bleeped-<-. I think the OP and stardust are referring to clinical definition of transvestic fetishism and discussing whether or not it is a choice.
The way you feel inside may not be your choice. What you choose to do about it is up to you ;)
Quote from: interalia on May 11, 2009, 08:33:33 PM
DSM IV Criteria:
A. Over a period of at least 6 months, in a heterosexual male, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving cross-dressing.
6 months? That's very precise. What scientific criteria were used to reach this figure? ???
Quote
B. The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
That must be A TERRIBLE AFLICTION! TSs don't know how lucky they are. :P
Quote
Now if this doesn't fit you, then it doesn't. You aren't (clinically at least) a ->-bleeped-<-.
What a relief! :D
But then what am I? :-\
Not a TS for sure since I am not interested in parting with my genitals. But to be truthful I must admit that sometimes I would love to have breasts. :o
I must be a single freak with a very rare and yet unclassified and unlabeled desire and commitment to be myself in all his/her facets which compels me to transgress and transcend the rigidly imposed boundaries of genders roles and definition. Anyone else out there shares the "Maebh's syndrome"?:D
Quote
I think the OP and stardust are referring to clinical definition of transvestic fetishism and discussing whether or not it is a choice.
I personally think strongly that Genevieve Swann's:
QuoteI personally do not dress merely for sexual arousal. I actually want to be feminine to be a complete person. Yes it is a choice and I choose to. If I ignore that part of me I'll become one miserable "B....".
and Deborah's:
QuoteNot all ->-bleeped-<-s are exactly the same, they take many forms and the time frame when each person feels the need to dress will vary. There are also different gains surrounding the desire depending on the person... to express the feminine side, to feel complete, to feel whole, to feel pleasure, inner calm, to de-stress, to cope with everyday life, sexual gratification, to fulfill an inner yearning (and / or) etc etc.
contributions are more encompassing and helpful to the understanding and acceptance of the rich and varied tapistry of individual experiences of TGism than any other approaches based solely on an anachronistic narrowly fixated Freudian sexual one.
H.L.L & R
Maebh
PS. Deborah to answer your very pertinent question:
After thinking long and hard I have come to the conclusion that in my case Crossdressing is
not a compulsion, that I have no control over,
but more a need. Of course
I can choose to fulfill that need or not and then live with the consequences of such a choice: Happy and complete or miserable and bitter.
As Virginia Marie says:
QuoteThe way you feel inside may not be your choice. What you choose to do about it is up to you.
Gratitude, Love, Light & Respect
Maebh
Cross dressing doesn't have to be sexual or fetishistic in nature, but when it is not, it isn't transvestism. Perhaps the OP can clarify. Are you talking about cross dressing or more specifically transvestism?
Quote from: interalia on May 11, 2009, 10:18:46 PM
Cross dressing doesn't have to be sexual or fetishistic in nature, but when it is not, it isn't transvestism. Perhaps the OP can clarify. Are you talking about cross dressing or more specifically transvestism?
Well Interalia, after doing a bit of research I came across this on Wikkipedia:
"
Magnus Hirschfeld coined the term transvestism (from Latin trans-, "across, over" and vestitus, "dressed") to refer to the sexual interest in cross-dressing.[1] He used it to describe persons who habitually and voluntarily wore clothes of the opposite sex. Hirschfeld's group of ->-bleeped-<-s consisted of both males and females, with (physically) heterosexual, (physically) homosexual, bisexual, and asexual orientations.]
Hirschfeld himself was not particularly happy with the term: He believed that clothing was only an outward symbol chosen on the basis of various internal psychological situations. In fact, Hirschfeld helped people to achieve the very first name changes (legal given names were and are required to be gender-specific in Germany) and performed the first reported sexual reassignment surgery. Hirschfeld's ->-bleeped-<-s therefore were, in today's terms, not only ->-bleeped-<-s, but people from all over the transgender spectrum.
Hirschfeld also noticed that sexual arousal was often, but not always, associated with ->-bleeped-<- behaviour; he also clearly distinguished between transvestism as an expression of a person's "contra-sexual" (transgender) feelings and fetishistic behaviour, even if the latter involved wearing clothes of the other sex.
After all the changes which took place during the 1970s, a large group was left without a word to describe themselves: heterosexual males (that is, male-bodied, male-identified, gynephilic persons) who wear traditionally feminine clothing. This group was not particularly happy with the term transvestism. Therefore, the term cross-dresser was coined.
Nor do those self-identified cross-dressers have any fetishistic intentions. They simply enjoy wearing female clothing at times, and most admire, and imitate, women.This group did - and sometimes still does - distance themselves strictly from both gay men and transsexual people, and usually also deny any fetishistic intentions.
It was probably this development that led to the explicit definition of transvestic fetishism as distinctively different from transvestism.However, when this group of people achieved public attention, most of the time not the word cross-dressing was used, but transvestism. That led, paradoxically, to yet another usage of transvestism:
Today transvestism is sometimes used to describe specifically cross-dressing male-bodied, male identified, heterosexual persons. This group usually self-identifies as "cross-dressers".Echoing the changing history of the term "transvestism", cross-dressing (but not cross-dresser) is now being used to describe the act of wearing clothing of another gender."
Does this help? Or does it muddy the waters even more?
Well am I a ->-bleeped-<- or a Crossdresser, or both or none?
The curse of labels! >:-)
HLL&R
Maebh
Quote from: Maebh on May 11, 2009, 10:08:31 PM
6 months? That's very precise. What scientific criteria were used to reach this figure? ???
My guess is that a 6 month period differentiates from trying your girlfriend's panties on one night out of curiousity :D
Quote from: interalia on May 11, 2009, 10:18:46 PM
Cross dressing doesn't have to be sexual or fetishistic in nature, but when it is not, it isn't transvestism. Perhaps the OP can clarify. Are you talking about cross dressing or more specifically transvestism?
I am referring to either or. Transvestism and or Cross-dressing / crossdresser.
The chart that was shown by the Doc in class gave a clear divide.
On one side it read (exactly):
Transsexual Women MtoF, Transsexual Men Fto M, Intersex people.
On the other it read:
Androgyne people non-binary gender, Crossdressing people / Transvestism
The differences being, the first group dont have a choice whereas the the second group do (????)
(Many thanks for your input Maebh, your research is much appreciated!)
Hugs,
Deborahx
Quote from: Virgina Marie
The way you feel inside may not be your choice. What you choose to do about it is up to you ;)
Ditto. That's what I was trying to say, but I botched it.
Quote from: Maebh
But then what am I? :-\
Not a TS for sure since I am not interested in parting with my genitals. But to be truthful I must admit that sometimes I would love to have breasts. :o
You're not a single freak, as I share some of this freakiness.
This has been a very enlightening thread for me. Before now, I was under the impression that most people see "->-bleeped-<-" and "cross-dresser" as be synonymous. I was aware that there was a distiction, but wasn't aware of the clinical distinction until now. If the DSM-IV is to be considered the authoritative text on this matter, than I appear to be a cross-dresser, and not a ->-bleeped-<-.
I don't really care what the so called experts say because most of them are not transgendered. They listen to what we say and make their determinations which are influenced by their own bias. Few people can make an interpretation without their bias influencing them at least a bit. I have yet to meet one who can. Besides, if I want to know something about trans people I'll go the real experts, the ones who teach the so called experts, other trans people.
We do have a choice in everything we do but there are consequences. When we weigh those consequences we make the decision that is right for us. Many people who identify as crossdressers are really transsexual but they have weighed the consequences of transitioning and choose to identify themselves as crossdressers.
It's a mind game of sorts.
The fear of what could happen if they transition is so great they actually convince themselves they aren't transsexual. But I have heard these people, when they are tired or depressed, admit they are TS but don't have the courage to transition. Once out of their slump they return to proclaiming they are CD.
If one was capable of truly separating the TSs from the CDs then you might be able to get inside the true CDs mind and find out what the consequences of not crossdressing would be for them. And then you can come to a better understanding if the choices they make are a need or the lesser of two evils.
Transsexuals often say if they don't transition they will die, or will want to. We could say transitioning is a choice but so is death. It depends how much importance you place on each action. Is life better than death? It's a pretty universal opinion that yes, life is better than death. What's amazing is some of us have to impress on our loved ones that's how we feel before they will come around to support us.
Crossdressing typically doesn't have the same level of desperation but there are consequences that are very real and very damaging if the crossdresser abstains for too long. Society may not agree these consequences justify breaking such a major taboo, so getting support or understanding is more difficult than for the TS who says I can't live like this anymore. But the need to crossdress is very real and, for the true crossdresser, will never go away. Remove the societal taboos and watch how many men start wearing clothes made for women. I think we'd all be shocked.
I'm 58 years old and I've studied this all my life. No doubt, if I were to sit in a room with the top experts I can tell them things they never heard or knew. I'm sure many here can say the same thing. Society programs us from the earliest age and that makes it very difficult for us to get in touch with our true feelings. We've been brainwashed and we feel guilty simply because society refuses to accept some people are different. Only when you reject transgender as being taboo can you begin to feel free to be yourself. You'll still have to face an unaccepting society though.
Let's face it, does someone who likes to fly model airplanes or scale Mt. Everest or join a chess club have to answer the question "is this a choice or a need?" No. Because all those things are socially acceptable. Change the social acceptance of being TG and you'll eliminate the problems society has with it and end the need for millions of people to try to be something they are not.
Julie
Quote from: Deborahx on May 12, 2009, 06:16:31 AM
I am referring to either or. Transvestism and or Cross-dressing / crossdresser.
Hi Deborah
I totally agrees with you. I am absolutly delighted that you were able to make it clear to him that, by using such a simplistic divide:
QuoteThe chart that was shown by the Doc in class gave a clear divide.On one side it read (exactly):
Transsexual Women MtoF, Transsexual Men Fto M, Intersex people.
On the other it read:
Androgyne people non-binary gender, Crossdressing people / Transvestism
The differences being, the first group dont have a choice whereas the the second group do (????)
his understanding and teaching not only didn't cover the full spectrum of experience of transgendered people and the full range of reason why people would outwardly dress and behave as the opposite gender to their biologicaly assigned sex but was also very counter productive. I personally (and I am sure countless others will) want to thank you and commend you on your facts based clarity and understanding, your courage to challenge his assumptions and your ability to change his outlook. :eusa_clap:
After hearing of so many terrible experiences of TG people at the hand of self proclaimed, so called "trangenderism experts" it is uplifting and heart warming to know that there are people like you out there, ready to truely listen to us and challenge the dominant misconceptions about our conditions. Our Northern Brothers and Sisters are so lucky to have such a clear and commited champion like you on their side in their struggle for understanding, acceptance and expression. :D
Go raibh míle maith agat. :icon_hug:
Bail ó Dhia ort. :-*
Buckets of LLL&R
Maebh
PS. Julie Mary everything you say is so true and make so much sense. You put it so beautifully and clearly that I wish more would listen to what you have to say.
LLL&R
Maebh
Isn't it nice to have a debate and discussion without personal attacks.
Quote from: Deborahx on May 12, 2009, 06:16:31 AM
On one side it read (exactly):
Transsexual Women MtoF, Transsexual Men Fto M, Intersex people.
On the other it read:
Androgyne people non-binary gender, Crossdressing people / Transvestism
The differences being, the first group dont have a choice whereas the the second group do (????)
I think there are some misconceptions in the two groupings. Perhaps we should use the terms transsexual, transgender, and cross-dresser? :-\ The non-binary genders are gender identities. As far as my understanding goes, I wouldn't consider "cross-dresser" to be a gender identity. And perhaps we can say there are different types of cross-dressers. There may be some cross-dressers for whom cross-dressing is strictly sexual and for others, it may not be. I would imagine it depends on the individual.
Basically, these aren't black and white terms. I'd agree that it's never a choice though. In the grand scope of things, we want our lives to go as smoothly as possible, so I have trouble believing that anyone would
choose to be a cross-dresser, transgender, or transsexual. :)
Personally I don't think my crosdressing/TG whatever you call it is a choice. If it was possible to do away with it I'm sure I would have found it by now. Too many years have been spent hating and berating this part of me, and I've found that acceptance has been the most psychologically healthy decision.
To me, transvestism is not a choice, even if it is considered a sexual fetish.
I've yet to meet a person who could honestly say that they choose what sexually arouses them. They might be able to choose to control the arousal response, but that's not the same thing.
But, that's just my POV.
Quote from: Shades O'Grey on May 18, 2009, 09:53:14 AM
To me, transvestism is not a choice, even if it is considered a sexual fetish.
I've yet to meet a person who could honestly say that they choose what sexually arouses them. They might be able to choose to control the arousal response, but that's not the same thing.
But, that's just my POV.
One can become sexually attracted to anything they fixate on during sexual arousal and doubly so with orgasm. There might be a genetic predisposition to be attracted to things (such as women's attire, shoes, etc) but through conditioning, we can become aroused by anything. The more often we associate sexual feelings with the stimulus, the stronger the link becomes, the more it becomes "not a choice".
Quote from: interalia on May 18, 2009, 10:37:39 AM
One can become sexually attracted to anything they fixate on during sexual arousal and doubly so with orgasm. There might be a genetic predisposition to be attracted to things (such as women's attire, shoes, etc) but through conditioning, we can become aroused by anything. The more often we associate sexual feelings with the stimulus, the stronger the link becomes, the more it becomes "not a choice".
Are you suggesting indirectly that homosexual orientation is covered by this theory too? That by un-associating sexual feelings with stimulus from the same sex, and forming new associations of sexual feelings with the opposite sex, a gay person can be made hetero?
Quote from: Hypatia on May 18, 2009, 11:20:55 AM
Are you suggesting indirectly that homosexual orientation is covered by this theory too? That by un-associating sexual feelings with stimulus from the same sex, and forming new associations of sexual feelings with the opposite sex, a gay person can be made hetero?
Not exactly, though such a study would be interesting. I am specifically talking about paraphillias (which exclusively relate to non-human objects).
QuoteTransvestic fetishism is a sexual fetish for the clothing of the opposite gender. It is one of a number of cross-dressing behaviours and is primarily a psychiatric term.
http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Transvestic_fetishism (http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Transvestic_fetishism)
QuoteWhereas Fetishism is the sexual arousal by inanimate objects, transvestic fetishism is the sexual arousal by clothing worn by the opposite sex. In most cases, this involves female clothing.
http://www.forensicpsychiatry.ca/paraphilia/transfetish.htm (http://www.forensicpsychiatry.ca/paraphilia/transfetish.htm)
links repaired as per new TOS. --Nichole
Well, I'm sure that the final word on anything is a Wikipedia-type article that's about as good as the writer wants it to be and comes equipped (until it's changed by someone else) with the prejudices of the writer as well as how much or little research they have bothered to do.
QuoteIt is important to distinguish between cross dressing for sexual as opposed to non-sexual arousal purposes. Only if it is done for sexual arousal, would it classify as transvestic Fetishism Otherwise, without the fetishistic component, it is not a paraphilia.
http://www.forensicpsychiatry.ca/paraphilia/transfetish.htm (http://www.forensicpsychiatry.ca/paraphilia/transfetish.htm)
OF course this definition may well be changed provided the catch-all strain currently proposed by Blanchard is accepted by the APA, which may be a lesser than one thinks chance at this point. It's beginning to look as if Blanchard and Zucker are carrying forward a "war" by psychiatric means against their institution and against all of the groups that fall under the vague umbrella "Transgender."
I get the feeling that their colleagues maybe see that a bit better than the warriors see it and the colleagues may well send the warriors back to the drawing board before accepting any definitional changes.
If they don't and allow Blanchard's proposed language the DSM-V will become even more ignored than it currently is (which is quite a bit by practioners who actually do the evaluations of the people who present to them) when it comes to "sex-changes."
As the Toronto doctor points out, presentation without some significant impairment for what is termed "transvestic fetishism" isn't an every day occurrence, in fact it's extraordinarily rare, much rarer than is "transsexualism." That makes it very rare indeed (kinda like Kaposi's Sarcoma was extraordinarily rare prior to the first stages of the HIV-disease epidemic) as whatever sexual arousal's there is prolly done in privacy and not talked about.
Since I was a kid dressing up felt good. Through my teens and twenties I always kept lingerie and girly clothes etc... Of course being in bands also made it really easy for me to wear gender neutral clothes and femme hairstyles. Prior to coming out (in my 30's) I tried to reign it in a bit an be societies ideal. (Yuck)
Now I'm out to my partner and in therapy. I'm super happy and excited about transition. Starting electro etc..
I've noticed sometimes lately dressing up sucks. It doesn't fool me anymore. I guess it reminds me that right now I'm still only mentally female. Don't get me wrong this girl loves her makeup and pretty clothes;D But I almost feel "fake" dressing up because I have to deal with all the illusion stuff. ie breasts not there yet, facial hair! (which I have always hated). I guess this is a normal part of transition? I feel like "I'm sitting in this waiting room and each little step of outward change will take me closer to getting "called". I guess I'm REALLY impatient right now. I'm reeling from the lack of fear I've been feeling about my identity as a trans woman. I just want my body now. (And quitting smoking is making me an emotional wreck.)
Many thanks for your replies girls it is much appreciated!!
this is probably not the right place for this, forgive me, i am new to this site ;-)
But how and when am I able to complete a profile?
Hugs,
Deborahx
Quote from: Deborahx on May 23, 2009, 07:13:52 PM
But how and when am I able to complete a profile?
I'm completely new here so not really able to give advice - but it happens to be because of that I just read the "rules" pages. According to this:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html)
you need 15 posts.
Think about this. I believe that if our culture allowed males ( since that seems to the overiding cases here) the freedom to wear feminine clothes, dresses, make-up, long hair not just in a ponytail, carry a bag, etc--------without any more stigma or negative consequenses than women usually have in wearing pants, no make-up, and short hair on the job, in office, or anywhere. Think Janet Napolitano our new director of Homeland Security. Janet Reno? I believe that "cross-dressing" would make no more difference to the new generations not burdened with this history of analysis and censure. Why should wearing a pretty dress be an event if you can do it everyday?
I went F/T in 2001 and I admit getting all femmed up still is fun. But then for over 50 years I had to listen to the gender police propaganda telling me that I was all screwed up. So of course it is still fun cause I had to hide behind a facade of being an old hippie till I just got sick of it and transitioned.
Post Merge: May 24, 2009, 08:41:56 AM
I see the "problem" of gender varient behavior as political. What if hunters had to have a year of counseling before they could wear blaze orange jump suits ( might be a good plan). Make any behavior a burdened with psychological baggage and of course it becomes a pathology.
Great wisdom xsocialworker!
You certainly haven't lost your hippy sensibility. Since this post I have had several powerful things happen in my transition: I had a consult for hair restoration. It went very well. My prognosis gave me new perspective on my physical outcome. Through my hair Dr. I met a transwoman who has had the procedure and is fulltime. We are becoming friends. It has had a profoundly positive effect on my self esteem.
When many teen-age boys begin cross-dressing in private, they find it very erotic. Research shows this initial rush goes away with time and cross-dressing either becomes something that brings a feeling of peace, or it becomes very boring and you have to move on to a medical transition. I found dressing in private totally pointless and I had to take it to the streets. Now that I am a F/T female in body ,mind, and spirit---------- i get no erotic charge from wearing brown pants and a button down shirt. Does that mean I'm not a CD anymore? :'(
Quote from: xsocialworker on May 24, 2009, 08:41:39 PM
When many teen-age boys begin cross-dressing in private, they find it very erotic. Research shows this initial rush goes away with time and cross-dressing either becomes something that brings a feeling of peace, or it becomes very boring and you have to move on to a medical transition. I found dressing in private totally pointless and I had to take it to the streets. Now that I am a F/T female in body ,mind, and spirit---------- i get no erotic charge from wearing brown pants and a button down shirt. Does that mean I'm not a CD anymore? :'(
I have seen this trend, but I wasn't aware of any research to back it up save the stuff by Lawrence et al. I'd be very interested to learn more about the pattern of behavior you describe above.
Your blog is very interesting and certainly is valid for you. I remember feeling like I should be a girl as early as five years old , long before I faced ugly confrontations with bullies or the gender police running the decadent and corrupt school system I attended. I know it was five years old because I had this epiphany while being taken with my father to buy a brand new 1950 Chevy and I was five in 1950-------god I'm old. In 1952, I wanted Stevenson to win the Presidency and I knew I was also a "liberal". I had a pay a price for both identities !
Post Merge: May 25, 2009, 08:37:14 AM
I just realized that you are from a Mormon background. I can only imagine the conflicts that creates as I am a Reform Jew and they have no position on GID that I know about.
Post Merge: May 25, 2009, 09:42:44 AM
My battles were not religious as I simply don't care about any of them. My struggles were against other boys trying to prove they were not sissies ( the word then) by harrassing people like me and the school system that had the gall to tell me how to dress , how to wear my hair, expecting me to participate in religious and patriotic nonsense, and take phys-ed with boys. Fortunately I circumvented all the rules. GID forced me to be devious and conniving in a way I might not have been if I had been able to be myself. I began to see life as a contest against the "man" because I knew I didn't fit in to his little world.
When many teen-age boys begin cross-dressing in private, they find it very erotic.
Exactly what doesn't cause teen age boys to pop a boner?
When I started casework at the age of 23, just a few years out of my teens, I had rural clients who had sex with cows and pigs. I assure everyone that had zero erotic appeal to me. Of course, I was raised in a big city, so the opportunity never came up >:-) :icon_help:
Post Merge: May 25, 2009, 11:53:49 AM
And--------if losing the attraction to cross-dressing and wanting a medical transition fits Dr. Anne's theories, so be it. I just know what I wanted and clothes just weren't enough. And since I found these faces, her's to my friends in the Gender police :police:
Once you go goat you never go back, so I'm told.
"I have never made a mistake, once I thought I did, but I was wrong, I hadn't made one." ???
That is more than a little bit circular but it does fit the choice or need argument. The reason is that the argument has shifted so much over the years that it catches itself being right, even when it is wrong. Some of this is due to learning as we live. I would have agreed that what I thought was making believe I was a member of the female gender back at 13 was a good feeling in my crotch. When it made me feel good back then, it also aroused me erotically. I felt great as a girl, actually a little "ballsy" that I was being what I felt I was inside. It did arouse my male genitalia, and yes, resulted in ejaculation. At the time and using the thought processes that were "age appropriate" I could easily have fit either the fetishistic or ->-bleeped-<- definitions that bring so much heat today.
It can be like taking a 1K piece jigsaw puzzle out of the box on a glass top table, turning the box cover over, and turning the puzzle pieces with the printed side down, and then trying to put the puzzle together perfectly so that a person lying under the table who can't talk to you about it will see it completed in under an hour for you to know what is true about yourself. If the person who comes up from under the table describes what he saw it to be in a foreign language, you will get an even better idea of what the gender argument can become.
I have used the definitions of ->-bleeped-<-, crossdresser, and transgendered at various times to describe myself. What keeps happening though is that I become OK with one definition, and then stop long enough for more questions to need answers. Then change happens. When I was married many years ago, I did not think of putting on women's clothing, but my wife was encouraged to do "feminine things" that today, I know I wanted to do then. She was not that interested in doing all the "feminine things" I wanted her to do though. (The marriage failed for reasons other than my gender issues.) While I was married, it was not possible for me to be gender bent, since boys married girls and had sex with them, and I was married. Was I fetishistically interested in her going to feminine extremes?? She does not remeber it that way (we are friends today) but I have read elsewhere that it could have been characterized as true if the right researcher had analyzed our relationship which did result in three children.
It has taken me many years since my first young and erotic days to have little facts change the way I see what my life has been like. Much of my behavior has been feminine since VERY young childhood, spent by periods of trying to change it "because I was a boy" and frankly becoming a mean and nasty caricature of what a man should be. Even doing good things as the male I was socially thought to be brought me almost no personal pleasure and little satisfaction although there are people who think highly of me as male.
The push and pull between our real selves to be what we are, the push and pull of society, and the push and pull of our spiritual side makes every path different. I have chosen to be a ->-bleeped-<- when it was the only clear answer I could see to my life. I have chosen to be a crossdresser when it became the clear answer to what I have felt and seen. Today, my female image of myself under whatever definition I use is no less real than it deeply has been, and is becoming the only REAL window of my spirit to the outside world. Certainly, HRT and the rest are not excluded, but will they make me more or less than I am now? :P